United Methodist Church split as I see it

[@garryw.robertsmusicandmore2359]

This is the best discussion on what's going on in the UMC split I've seen anywhere! Thank you for this.

[@BABEEBEEH]

🕊 Exhibit one kzbin.info/www/bejne/rF6Qc6h-jbt0bZI isaiah 53:5 And Identity is in Christ

[@leahjagger1309]

Thank you for your time and effort. Our pastor and board have sent this link out for our congregation to watch to assist with clarification. Jesus is the Son of God. The Scriptures are His divine word. May we all be His people!

[@shihyuchu6753]

amen

[@clemsonalum98]

I'm shocked by what is taught at so many American and Euro "Churches" now. It isn't Christian, I'm not sure what it is at this point other than a social club that reflects the whims of society rather than teaching the Gospel. Very concerning.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

Yes, Jesus taught us that he was not of this world and the world would hate us for loving him. If we are not willing to pick up that cross and be unpopular we end up being tied to a historic moment that will pass. If we change to suit the culture, when the culture changes yet again, instead of being counter-cultural, a church of this nature becomes a dying backwater cut off from the True vine. As a Catholic I see this in parishes that adopted all the 70s/80s popular music and culture and now are confused when Millennials and Zoomers chose the more traditional orthodox Catholic parishes.

[@charlesperkins7746]

Great comment. My family and I have been saying the same thing.

[@genevievebourne3073]

It's sad to see the Methodist Church fractured at the same time and with the same division as the US political environment. I am surprised that the will of the dissenters is prevailing. That strikes me as analogous to children being permitted to impose their will on adults rather than moving out and forming the kind of situation they prefer. I wholeheartedly agree with your summation.

[@ryanlake7603]

Marxism is taking over all aspects of life. All forms of government and institutions are under attack. Views are being polarized. You cannot be in the center anymore, it must be far left or far right. But there will be a day when all who believe will be under the glory of God through Jesus Christ!

[@attkdriver]

This was foretold in the Bible. It’s sad, but was predicted.

[@viviennedunbar3374]

As a general rule wealthier parts of Churches worldwide in the West tend to hubris and think they know better than Christ and 2,000 years of Tradition (this is across all. denominations) and they have the sophistication (more money & education, business and law backgrounds etc) to politicize and gain power in general bodies, even though they represent the minority of believers and people in the pews. So these splits tend to always materially favor the progressives and give them an over representation of power. Once the Churches actually split however the progressives don't grow. As a Catholic I see this in my diocese where the very wealthy older parts of our city have parishes that are dying and closing because they insisted on becoming more and more progressive. Those ordinary parishes that stuck to the Gospel, even if poor, have thrived. And the new parishes in the suburbs that cater to young families also are exploding. Unfortunately progressives don't seem to understand "if you ain't crying you're dying". That is, if your chuch has no babies you are on the way out. The progressive parishes are pro everything that ultimately damages families and communities over generations. We must "take up our cross" and follow Christ even when its hard and especially counter cultural otherwise we are cut off from the True Vine.

[@tdgraham89]

Thank you for your candid opinion of what is going on in the Church. It all boils down to outright rebellion and the lack of accountability within the Church. I am thankful that we are going our separate ways, because we cannot continue in a covenant relationship with those who would not be faithful to the covenant. It seems as if the progressive portion of the UMC underestimated what would happen if they continued to break covenant, and they seem almost fearful of what "their" denomination will look like when the traditionalists leave. I am encouraged by those who would hold fast to scriptural teachings and discard those ideas that are not scripturally sound.

[@ryanlake7603]

They will be bankrupt as soon as the appeasement money runs out..

[@carolyn1256]

Amen! 🙏🙌

[@vannieloumarshall7232]

AMEN a thousand times!

[@JaniceCGray]

🐙🐕

[@JaniceCGray]

🐙🐕

[@woodfin77]

Good info. As someone who is just starting the process to become a LLP in the North Alabama Conference, I appreciate your videos a lot. And the Aldersgate Missionary Society intrigues me. Keep up the good work!

[@joshdb142]

Great video! I really appreciate you doing this!

[@ma-mo]

Following with interest, as a Nazarene. Thank you for this overview of the situation. I'm encouraged by these overtures from the ACNA; new affiliations would help lessen the sting of all the ongoing fracturing of the Body. I'd like to see more Anglican/Wesleyan congregations strengthening their historical ties.

[@patriciacovington9790]

Where do you live? We had Nazarene churches inOhio

[@ma-mo]

@@patriciacovington9790 Central Ohio.

[@rauldelarosa2768]

If the Nazarene church isn't cautious.. they'll be next in the liberal and progressive Christianity wave that overtook the United Methodist Church.. I wish the conservative Methodist churches would simply vacate the premise..even if it takes a congregation to be without a physical building. Your never dying soul is worth more than a building..

[@wademach77]

My mother worked at the Methodist publishing house which became Cokesbury. I still have her small Methodist pocket prayer book I use it still to this day.

[@caseyjones745]

Great explanation of a very confusing situation. Your closing at 40:00 is right on. May God bless us all and guide us through this.

[@jdbreaux8080]

I agree, and I am as focused as you.

[@lagagirl]

You provided a very good explanation of the whole situation that really helps me understand beyond just the presenting issue. Thank you for this video.

[@ttpayton]

Brother, what a God glorying explanation! Thank you for it! I really appreciate your encouragement in your closing to trust in Christ during the hard time. While I'm not a Methodist, our small non-demoninational theologically conservative evangelical congregation (kinda sad we have to qualify ourselves like that) went through a difficult split in 2021. At the time it was a mess. But looking back now, God was doing more than I could see or the circumstances were revealing. Sad to say, but when things seem out of control at church life, so often our hearts want to trust ourselves, instead of trusting our Sovereign Savior and King. May the God of all Grace use this difficult time for all my Methodist brothers and sisters in Christ to die to themselves, grow in deeper dependence on God, have a better understanding and reliance on the Gospel, and overall be used for God's Glory and the good of Jesus' sheep.

[@ThriftStoreBibles]

Thanks, I learned a lot from this. I knew about the issues of owning the buildings, but not about the pension concerns. And it's interesting to hear how the ACNA is reaching out.

[@johnbush3835]

Thank you for this. I am an interested outsider who grew up Southern Baptist and watched the fundamentalists take over that denomination and purge the seminaries, etc., of anyone who was just conservative, not hyper-conservative. I was/am one of those less hyper-conservative people who saw (rightly or wrongly) that takeover as power politics disguised as theological concern. What I see in the United Methodists now reminds me a lot of that whole sorry mess. My brother and sister-in-law belong to a United Methodist church in another state, which I have enjoyed visiting many times. I really don't know what "side" they are on if any and will be very interested in seeing what happens there. I also have many friends who are faithful members of a local United Methodist Church. Bottom line for me is that I pray for my UMC friends as this unfolds because I have seen what pain and hurt and anger can result from this kind of conflict. God bless you all.

[@cliffsaxon5493]

You Can Thank These EXTREME Fundalmentalists For Destroying The SBC Jerry Vines Morris Chapman Dr. Paige Patterson Bailey Smith

[@jdbreaux8080]

@@cliffsaxon5493 I love my Baptist sisters and brother. Even the SBC. God's loves his people and be they any denomination, God's love is transforming denominations. That's what places Christianity above all denominations. I attended so many denominations across North America. Christianity oozes God's boundless love. In any form, we must do no harm to any Body of Christ. All should serve when called to, no matter their label. Even lesbians, drag queens, children, and politicians, this is unquestionably a convoluted world in 2022. We need to bring people to Christs' teachings. Wesley works for this deeply logical person that I have always been. I want all of Christianity to grow. Remaining anchored in the full Holy Trinity. My/our prayers for today. To grow deeper in the Holy Trinity. To bring others close, even closer to God's timeless and inexhaustible love. It is time as disciples of Christ that we should reflect those qualities to others everyday, whomever they may be, From whatever walk of life they may be labeled. Psalms 98:14 Amen.

[@cliffsaxon5493]

John Bush Well Said!!!!!!

[@davidcanaday8508]

There are small UMC conservative churches that are growing and pay thier apportionments on time. They give thier widows mite and have no large sums of money set aside to pay the exit fees. Their strong faith and knowing that God provides is thier reason to stay.

[@MizSharonD]

Very good summary that makes it clearer what the history through what is happening today has evolved in this dispute and fracture in the church.

[@gordiasgordian925]

The YT algo brought me here. I was confirmed almost 40 years ago but I don't think I can go back to the UMC as a member. But I have prayed for the church over the years and hoped it could stay united. Thanks for the update and I will watch more of your videos.

[@sandrapelton462]

Great explanation. I can only pray that we figure out the best way forward for the UMC in God's grace and mercy.

[@BGCflyer]

Either the Bible is the word of God, or it isn’t! That’s where the issue is.

[@stevebrown8368]

It isn't

[@malachi551]

It is, sadly conservatives don’t seem to want to accept that.

[@Tedderville1]

Very helpful. I will be sharing this with members in my congregation. Thank you so much.

[@47Callie]

Wow! I came upon your video as I was searching this topic. I was mainly looking for the 2019 Conference because I’d read it was a mess. Thank you so much for so clearly explaining the issues that the Methodist Church is facing. It breaks my heart that my UM church may be splitting. So far, we are not being told much….which is frustrating. I became a YT member just so I can watch your other videos as well, including the video on this subject that you recently posted. I’m going to pass them along to my Christian friends who are as concerned as I am. Please keep them coming! Thank you again.

[@jdbreaux8080]

It was a very good very motivated conference. Following, that our UM church took off and accelerated a local committee and we moved forward with blinding speed, knowing time was not to be wasted. And just as we gained momentum, COVID19 hits with the same blinding speed. I hope we jump back on where we left off. We desperately need to get this behind us. All of us.

[@kurtoheim6183]

This is one of the most cogent, sober, and honest summaries of what is going on in the UMC. Thank you for also using precise and very respectful terms. In my humble opinion the "protocol" will not pass in 2024 because many of not most of those churches and pastors who embrace the authority of Scripture will have already left. The elitist thinking will prevail. The core issue is not "homosexuality" it is trusting the authority of Scripture and that is the the real reason for the division. I agree with you that we should always love one another and love our neighbors no matter their situation. Thank you for posting this.

[@majcpw]

I’m a deacon at an historically black baptist church founded in 1803. I also represent our church in an ecumenically diverse benevolent organization consisting of 50 or so churches and synagogues. I think you’ve done an excellent job stating what is happening within the United Methodist Church. Our 10k member Baptist church wrestled with some of the LGBTQ+ issues as well with a pastor that doesn’t discriminate but we have not done a same sex marriage and we don’t have any “out” leaders. We do have a few male choir members that are openly androgynous in their personal lives but dress traditionally for worship. I’m sure the day is coming when one will feel the need to be the first to sing praise and worship while cross-dressing and that’s when we’ll see if members think they have to leave, or grace will prevail.

[@monolith94]

Cross dressing in the church would be blasphemous.

[@majcpw]

@@monolith94 In your opinion, which of course you are entitled to.

[@monolith94]

@@majcpw What is and isn't blasphemy isn't merely opinion. Blasphemy is the action of taking a sacred space and disgracing it, of attempting to eliminate and erase that which is divine from the face of the Earth. To take such an action would be to proclaim in what is theoretically a temple devoted to God that the laws he has given us are of no importance, that human laws are more important than divine laws now. Such a church would be actively distancing itself from God. The fact that you are attempting to frame my accurate description as merely my opinion is just weak. Not everything is mere opinion. There are objective truths and while I may not know everything, it doesn't take a genius to see that what you are describing is rank blasphemy.

[@genevievebourne3073]

@@majcpw Not a Biblical scholar, but I can't help wondering how that would not be blasphemous. At its most fundamental level Judeo-Christian teaching is structured on God's design of and for the world is based on distinguishing male and female.

[@majcpw]

@@genevievebourne3073 The word blasphemous has been used so much by well meaning Christians to justify marginalizing folks that they have issues with. I generally tend to view them in the same light as Pharisees. I very much focus on the love verses of the Bible, especially those associated with Jesus who chose to dwell amongst those that were ostracized. I don’t focus on the “clobber verses” (please Google it if not familiar) that have been used to justify slavery, bigotry, etc. I agree with my Pastor,who is a Bible scholar, that the Bible with all of its excellence was also written by men who were not perfect and were influenced by their current circumstances. I also follow my Pastor’s philosophy that his job is not to tell you what to think but to think. He will freely discuss his original strict interpretation of the Bible but will also tell you how God opened his eyes and blessed him with spiritual growth that enables him to focus on winning the world for Christ rather than labeling and finger pointing. This response is not meant to try to sway anybody’s opinion as you are free to think as you may. I’m watching the situation with upcoming split of the United Methodist Church with great interest. This isn’t the first time as there was previously a split primarily over racism that DID NOT AGE WELL for those seeking to marginalize African Americans. My own church faced sanctions within our own Baptist convention in the late 1970’s for ordaining women as deacons and that DID NOT AGE WELL. My prayer is that love and tolerance for all that seek HIS face will win the day.

[@russelldarnall]

Rev. Hixon, You did an excellent job of selecting facts that support your opinion. In any divorce of relationships, there is grief, It would be helpful if you did another video to help people deal with the emotional aspects of separation. For example, you choice of words and sometimes your tone, indicate a strong emotional investment. How do we stay Christ focused?

[@debbiekennedy2902]

Thank you for your explanation. I understand better now.

[@hughcarothers9511]

Pastor Hixon great job explaining this and may I say in an honest truthful way to all sides. Thank you. In Christ Hugh

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

I am an Unlicensed Non-Certified historian (that sounds a lot nicer/classier than a history nut :-) ). I look back to the 16th century and the introduction of the printing press in Europe. It brought with it Change and Chaos. We are in the middle of that kind of Change (and Chaos), all thanks to that Little Silicon Chip. What's going on in society should not surprise anyone. Some of these changes are Good, some Not So Good. I'm 74, the world I grew up in is Dead and gone. Some for the Better, some for The Worse.

[@miltonboldt]

Thank you for giving your thought's on this very complex subject, you summed it up very well by saying we need to love each other and respect each because that is what the teaching of Jesus is proclaiming.

[@jamesseay9943]

Excellent presentation, very informative. I had a hard time understanding why, following the 2019 conference, the traditional wing felt the need to break away? After all, the majority vote was to uphold and in fact strengthen the traditional view of marriage and sexuality as contained in the BOD. Pastor Daniel answered this well: The progressive wing decided it was not going to leave, despite the vote in 2019, despite a provision allowing them to leave. In fact, the progressive wing, or most of the progressive wing in the US decided to stay and continue to fight, but they would do so choosing to ignore certain BOD rules and regulations which they felt were offensive. How can that be you ask? Didn't the 2019 conference put enforcement provisions in place for the rule breakers, rules that pastors who broke such rules (and in turn violated their sacred vow to support, defend and live by the BOD), could be then held accountable? Yes, such rules were in fact strengthened under the BOD to leave no doubt; however, progressive bishops in many US conferences have failed to follow through enforcing the rules. Simply put, that is why the progressive wing has remained. Rule breaking pastors are accountable only to their employers, their bishops, not their congregation. In turn, bishops are accountable to no one. Their power is absolute and they know it. And to make matters worse, we have this trust clause in our BOD giving the bishop power over a congregation's property and title, property the congregation paid for and maintains. If the bishop refuses or fails to enforce the rules, how is the bishop held accountable? Unfortunately, I've seen how this works first hand here in North Carolina. I've read about it happening in other states as well. My question to Pastor Daniel: Why did Wesley choose to vest so much authority in the bishops?

[@danielhixon8209]

Well, the relationship between the bishops and the conferences has changed and shifted over the years. I'm not an expert on this, but I believe that the question of whether the GC can discipline a bishop or not was the technical cause of the split before the civil war.

[@MarcillaSmith]

@@danielhixon8209 I agree with the previous poster on the high quality of the presentation, and a remarkable balance, considering the tension of the issue. While you covered the offer from the ACNA, I would like to see you cover the option to "swim the Tiber." Holy Mother Church, as I'm sure you're aware, established the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter specifically to receive those of us whose faith was formed in "one of the Anglican traditions" (including United Methodism). Many of us have already made it to the far shore, and for my money, the poetry of Charles Wesley has never tasted sweeter than when sung from the choir loft of a "Papist" cathedral!

[@danielhixon8209]

@@MarcillaSmith thank you for your comment. I think there will be some few very "high church" UM pastors or laity who do end up taking that option (I know of one pastor that is "kicking the idea around"). I personally have some theological convictions that (despite my positive experience at a Roman Catholic elementary school) mean that going to Rome is not really a "live" option for me. But for any who choose to "swim the Tiber", I'll pray God's blessing upon them. I do suspect that the Personal Ordinariate that Rome set up for Anglicans may have helped inspire the Aldersgate Mission Society that the Anglicans are setting up for Methodists. My hope is that one day we will all be able to recognize every broadly orthodox Christian tradition as different "orders" or "societies" within the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.

[@MarcillaSmith]

@@danielhixon8209 How Hauerwasian of you, if you will allow me to say so (and if memory serves). As much as I want to ask you more on this topic, let me restrain myself, and instead return to the OP... While I would not dispute the reasons given for (what I'll call) "mainline protestant" Methodists remaining in the UMC after losing the vote, nor would I dispute the assertion that they are also staying for more noble ideas like "remaining in covenant for the sake of covenant," I want to add that I think there is no small number of liberals (politically) who dearly _need_ the conservative (politically) presence, and it will be... interesting to see what becomes of a UMC that is left with mostly just liberals and progressives. What I mean is that it seems to me that liberals have managed to keep themselves at the center of politics - both ecclesial and secular - by way of telling those on either side of them what they think they want to hear ("blessed are the peacemakers," amiriteyall?). Without the more conservative element around on whom to place the blame for the church's reluctance to adopt certain norms, some of these basic libz who've enjoyed having it both ways are going to have to choose between getting cool with either a lot of new changes, or else actually coming clean about their real feelz. I mean, with all those pesky conservatives out of the way, I would think that any non-binary, polyamorous pansexual worth zir blue hair would be lobbying for their church council to remove all of the divisive and triggering crosses, to say nothing of passing a resolution to condemn the Bible as one of the primary tools of colonialism and cultural genocide. Right libz?

[@thepilgrimsprogress]

@@MarcillaSmith "Libz." Good Lord, you undermine your entire argument by using childish and dismissive words. If you want people to take you seriously, act like an adult and not like some third-rate Tucker Carlson.

[@ap777t9]

I was baptized and confirmed in the UMC and my father was an ordained elder who served many parishes until his retirement. For too long we let the whack-jobs in our church control our polity to the point where John and Charles Wesley would be turning over in their graves. All along, we had “open hearts, open doors” and empty pews cuz we allowed so many wacky beliefs through our “open doors” that we have ended up believing in virtually nothing of traditional Christianity. There we are at schism! So pathetic and sad.

[@robellis9181]

I am so sorry that this is happening. However each church should go in the direction that the Lord leads them. 🙏

[@benlandon9051]

Good information. As one who has been through a similar dispute in another denomination, I do think you are slightly misinterpreting the root of the issue. You frame it as "the authority of the Bible," but I think it is "authority" more generally. If you listen to what they say, it becomes clear that the Progressive side does not view the Bible as the ultimate authority: they are quite willing to ignore the Bible completely when they do not like what it says, in favor of a claim they are led by the Holy Spirit to a different conclusion (or, in some cases, to an interpretation of the Bible that bears little, if any, resemblance to what the Bible actually says).

[@danielhixon8209]

I don't disagree. As with the splits during the 11th Century (East-West) and the 16th Century (Reformation), the issue of authority does seem to be close to the heart of things. It seems to me that traditionalists and progressives disagree (as you mention) about not only how to interpret the Bible, but also how the Bible relates to other potential sources of authority ('experience', 'feeling led by the Spirit', etc.). At the end of the day, as I've said before, it is really hard to walk together if we are determined to walk in different directions, and it seems we are determined to walk in different directions because we are following different 'lights'.

[@benlandon9051]

@@danielhixon8209 Agreed. I left ELCA after 2009 when they faced the same issue and decided to approve things based on an interpretation of the Bible that I believe was not based on what the Bible actually says or means. I had been very active, attending Synod assemblies as a delegate, committee member or officer every year for quite a few years and even attending the Churchwide Assembly as a delegate immediately prior to the assembly where the changes were approved. It became clear to me based on those experiences that the two sides might as well have been speaking different languages. It appears I may now be faced with potentially leaving UMC over the very same issue, as I do not believe I can compromise on the issue of Biblical authority, and I cannot see how the Bible can be interpreted in a manner consistent with what the Progressives advocate that is faithful to the Bible's text and intent.

[@captainamerica9353]

@@benlandon9051 , my kids and I were looking for a church in 2014, after a divorce I didn't want. We attended several churches and became members of an ELCA church less than a mile from home. It's a beautiful old church and Richard I. Bong was married there during WWII, so I thought hey this should be good enough for us! But the longtime pastor had just left, replaced by a rather odd young woman, just out of Seminary. She seemed very "nice", but I knew something wasn't quite right about her, and after a year she was "transferred" out to Anaheim, CA. Then a retired guy was filling in while a replacement was being sought. He wrote in the bulletin that he thought the recent decision by the Supreme Court to allow gay marriage was "wise". After meeting with him we quit and joined an LCMS church which is rock solid conservative. Turns out the female pastor was gay at the ELCA church. Very sad.

[@benlandon9051]

@@captainamerica9353 It is sad, and your experience is an example of why no compromise will likely work. Once you stop enforcing a standard, the standard will eventually cease to exist, no matter how much talk there is about living together with your differences. Either Biblical authority governs the church or it does not -- there is no middle ground. (Obviously, all sinners are welcome in the church, since a church without sinners would be empty. The presence of sinners in the church is only a problem "when we say we have no sin[, at which point] we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." We all need to acknowledge our sin and attempt to do better.)

[@captainamerica9353]

@@benlandon9051 , brilliant! You are spot on. The temporary pastor at the ELCA church we left was retired and never even tried to get us to stay! He couldn't care less about us leaving. What's worse is that the leadership may have kicked out the gay woman but it's still ELCA and therefore still rife with a PC version of Christianity.

[@ryanlake7603]

My congregation had a meeting to discuss this last Sunday. We will soon take a vote to see what direction we will go. The congregation is very conservative so we will most likely not stay with the UMC I'm sure. I appreciate your video because it is well informing. The sad part is the UMC church should stay with the conservatives and the progressives should be the ones who leave because the conservatives are the majority and not the minority. But we must be gracious and loving in the way Jesus taught us. So if we are the ones that must leave then so be it.

[@dirkevans1]

I agree. The UMC should be supportive and stand solidly by the Conservative Congregation that has grown within it's teachings and doctrine over all these years. The Progressives, because they are the ones changing their minds and ways and want to change the UMC, should be the ones to split off and leave and create their own church. My UMC is very conservative and this progressive movement just won't fly here.

[@13eenPost]

If you are a leader, I think this is not a thing to be vote for. The western parents are too irresponsible on their duty to brought up the child in the way they should go, this is the reason why American church are now.

[@ryanlake7603]

@@13eenPost not sure what you are trying to say. It is impossible to remain in an organization that condones sin including sexual immorality and murder of unborn babies.

[@michaelragnanese]

The Methodist church really doesn't have a choice, but to separate from each other.

[@marywhaley4675]

God didn't say to go out and make denominations with their own "book of discipline". He said go and make disciples of all the nations. And He is still on the throne. Praise the Lord oh my soul. If people could be so loyal to the Lord as they are to their particular denomination. So sad. Come Lord Jesus come.

[@carolinesanders5889]

Very good comprehensive overview presenting both sides of major issues confronting the UMC. For many who are members of United Methodist Churches the decisions by both congregations and individual members lie just ahead of us. I liked especially your comments about holding to both Truth and Grace. And as most Methodist know Wesley had many profound things to say about grace. My prayers are for a peaceful, grace-filled separation of people on both sides of the issues so that we can focus our energy attention and efforts on our mission of "making disciples for Jesus Christ ..."....Wesley is reported as saying "though we may not think alike....may we not love alike" (may not be a direct quote) and from the Bible and Jesus (John 13:35/NIV) ""By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." Love in Christ, Caroline Sanders/Munholland UMC, Metairie, LA (laity)

[@jdbreaux8080]

AMEN.

[@lisakramer9373]

Over100 churches have left in the FL conference and there is also a lawsuit.

[@cindyjanesattic]

Search for Rob Renfroe’s UMC Split video series. He discusses further issues not covered here.

[@charlottemandeilunga6465]

It is quite clear in the scriptures

[@ZOELIFE23]

I am a progressive, but I believe the institution of marriage is a biblical covenant between a man and a woman. Having said that, if a same- sex couple wants a “civil Union”, it should be allowed. Pastors should not be forced to marry same- sex couples just like they aren’t “forced” to wed traditional couples.

[@waynedowdle8041]

Same sex marriage is an abomnation before GOD. No ordained minister can be involved in any way with it, for he would be the same as telling GOD He is wrong about the union of a man and a woman. IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE A HOLY UNION, JUST AS THE CHURCH IS TO BE JESUS' BRIDE. BE YE HOLY AS HE IS HOLY.

[@glennso47]

The Catholic Church is the only reliable interpreter of scripture.

[@danielhixon8209]

Hi Glenn Lego; I actually completely agree with that. I do not, however, equate the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church with the Church of Rome, as Roman Catholics (by definition) do.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@danielhixon8209 My take (cliffnotes version) God judges The Heart. ie do people really think God judges a person based on their thinking on Transubstantiation, who the kind of Baptism you had? You hold to the Early Creeds....you are in The Club.

[@glennso47]

@@danielhixon8209 I don’t equate the Catholic Church with that thing that has cropped up since the disaster of Vatican 2 and the so called “new mass”

[@MichelleMMears]

You mention both traditional Methodists and conservative Methodists. What is the difference? If you defined these terms, I missed it. Thanks for your help.

[@danielhixon8209]

I was basically using them interchangeably just like progressive/liberal; but of course there are conservative Methodists that function more like a nondenominational evangelicalism, and other conservative Methodists who are more "catholic" and look more like a low church Anglicanism, so you could certainly make distinctions there

[@jimweatherly5738]

“I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭16‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭ Simple as that.

[@fredphilippi8388]

I would be cautious about joining any denomination with a doctrine on human sexuality that is led by a people with laws such as those of Uganda and other African countries. In Uganda, anyone who says they are LGBT is liable for a life sentence in prison, and anyone who knows that another person is gay but does not report them to the police is liable to several years in prison. That is not my idea of humanity, much less Christianity.

[@austinlovitt8298]

This is one of the most upsetting situations to me, and Ive tried to ignore the writing on the wall for years because I love my church and the people in my church. To think that one of the great worldwide denominations has gotten themselves into this mess is a tragedy of epic proportions, but life goes on. Instead of staying around to spin our wheels for another few years, and waiting for the incompetent UMC leaders to schedule another useless slugfest that might (or might not) resolve anything, we’ve simply moved on to another church where we can grow and get away from all this drama. Most young people with families don’t have time for this. Ill always love my friends and pastors who decide to stay in the UMC as much as the ones who left. Just a shame it came to this.

[@waynedowdle8041]

If it is not of GOD, it shall fall, the house that is built on a solid foundation will stand, those that are not when the storms come upon them they shall fall.

[@horacerumpole7629]

It's really simple...you believe in scripture or you don't...I've been a Methodist for almost 60 years and when they start actively aiding and abetting sin ..I'm out..it looks like the orthodox church is the only one who remains true..

[@susanm9545]

In 1 Corinthians 3:16 Holy Spirit of God tells us, don't we know that we are the temple of God and that His Spirit dwells in us...? Further... the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God... Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours. And you are Christ's...and Christ is God's. Rev. 1:3... Blessed is he that reads... Hear... And Keep these things... We ask H. Spirit to lead as we read and think on the words, ask questions and pray, and obey, God teaches us and guides us. John14:26, 16:13.... John 8:31, Jesus, said to those who BELIEVED ... IF you STAY in My Word, then you are My disciples... And you shall know the TRUTH ... And IT will make you free... Amen By FAITH that OBEYS Him...(coming OUT of lies taught to us/THINGS to walk after that are NOT IN THE BIBLE - - Heals us then from a dependance of harmful meds - Isaiah 53:1 + Exod. 15:26), Is wisdom.. Matth. 7:21 - 24...whosoever HEAR AND DO My sayings.. Is like a wise man, building his house on a rock... (not sand... opinions of man.) Psalms 118:8, middle chapter and verse of the Bible (it's been said:)... It's better to trust in God than in man... TEST all WORDS (what we've been told...all these years..) 1 John 4:1.... And test them... Revelation 2:2... Many lies that sounded good to the flesh of man, came in, since Eve's time. But When we do as God teaches in His word, and stick to it - He turns up to guide us...! And He changes things for the best in our life when we ask and wait.. And expect testing to come - for us to show we WILL stay true to His WORD and not turn to listen to other suggestions/lures... ( Discipline will follow, Rev. 3:19.) And Father blesses us all the way with His peace...protection... Etc. Etc.... Amen. 1 John 2:27, His Spirit teaches us... 26, So, be careful. 28, WE ABIDE in Him....to not be ASHAMED at His coming. And in Rev.16:15... But CLOTHED in pure white... For we've Readied ourselves for the Marriage Supper Of The Lamb... (in Truth and in Spirit) - Rev. 19:6-9, amen. It's time. Isaiah 26:20 + 21. God's Judgment is here to cleanse the earth - by fire/s. Acts 2:19 + Rev. 6:12, 8:5, 9:17-21.

[@captainamerica9353]

horace Rumpole , you could try an LCMS Lutheran church. Totally based on Scripture.

[@agrahazl]

Good talk! Thank you.

[@barronfinley3062]

I don't believe the question of ownership of property will hold up in court, when UMC has not made a payment or maintained nothing. I say vote to leave and pay them nothing, let them take it to court.

[@RuthRaubertas]

I admit to being a denomination hopper. I decided to become Catholic. 😀

[@arthurgearheard4701]

Were you Methodist? Did you attend a Methodist Church in Louisiana? I'm Catholic, but my Great-grandfather and his brother were Methodist. As a matter of fact, my Great-great-uncle served at Churches in Abbeville and Bogalusa before being assigned a church in Kansas City until his death in 1960! Women couldn't be ordained back then!

[@joewoods5775]

Does the Methodist Bible have the story of Sodom and Gomorrah if so what's the issue

[@terrymeadows1827]

I split with the UMC 40+ years ago as the Bible had no authority then, as it still does not now in the UMC. No human organization "brings people together". That is God's doing (Revelation 1:4-18). I found a church body that actually believes in God, and so can you. He has revealed Himself through His appointed prophets, disciples, and apostles in the Holy Bible. Some in the UMC still cling to the delusion that returning to Wesley will save them. But his Enlightenment-based theology is what led them to become the present abomination it is. Confessional Lutheran church bodies like the WELS and the LC-MS (especially the latter) hold the Holy Bible as authoritative. Law and Gospel is the paradigm as shown by our Lord, leading to repentance and forgiveness. It is a joy to trust our Lord and not in the sin-natured mind of women and men.

[@paulstone712]

Thank you for this video

[@brentjernigan2773]

Traditional church should keep the UMC name.....make the progressives start PMC!

[@malachi551]

Funny how y’all’s split off churches are already closing down.

[@dannyrowland1660]

Gays belive in God and deserve a church where they feel loved and accepted 🙏 God loves every one God. We are not to judge nor turn away anyone.

[@michaelbutler4892]

God loves everyone, but not everything we do - hence sin

[@annpippin6388]

The UMC is still officially The UMC and is not what solutions Those leaving ,entirely responsible for the. Publicity. ,have split themselves from the Traditional UMC . My church is thriving as most of the congregations are. I answer and explain when asked .

[@agrahazl]

This situation vexes the very fiber of my being. God gave Moses the holy law. Symbolic reality is that they were delivered carved in stone for a reason. We have free will and choice, I can only pray that they are wisely used.

[@suehorley6059]

The plan that would get the smile of God would be God's way or no way.. If it is in the Bible we want it! If it is not in the Bible we do not want it! Being filled with the HolySpirit He will led us into all truth..It is about letting go and let God! Hallelujah ❣

[@chamber251]

This unfortunate current split in the UMC reminds me of a similar split in the southern UMC in the 1960s. When I was growing up in the 1960's South, many churches left the UMC because they opposed racial integration, believing the Bible called for continued segretation of blacks and white. My wife and I were both sad and excited as we recently transferred from a church leaving the UMC. We have joined a UMC church that is staying the course until the next annual conference. We would have preferred to see our old church support, and the UMC approve, one of the other options than the Traditional Plan. We hate to see the church divided over this one issue of acceptance of gay marriage/clergy. We have gay relatives, and it appears to us they were made by God and nature this way, and deserve full acceptance and support in the church. We suppose the broader issue is how literally we interpret the Bible. We think our society's understanding of homosexuality has improved over the last many centuries.

[@susanwest8463]

You didn’t explain how we leave the denomination to the global without getting into trouble. We are ready to leave, but sure how to start.

[@jimflys2]

This was brewing back in the 1980s and before. It is all based in the authority of God's word. All of this is a result of rejecting the scriptures and relegating them to advisory and not authoritative and inerrant. Those are two polar opposites. In that light then, you have but 2 things to do. One: Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. Ep 4. Since that has been done and tried for many years, the last thing is simply to mark and avoid those who cause divisions contrary to the doctrine you have learned. Ro 16. To do something else to try and massage God's word is to be treating it without authority and respect. You will just be the caboose at the end of the liberal train that is derailing since it has departed from the clear teachings of scripture and indeed probably is concerned more about man's ways than God's. Do you want to get at the heart of the matter or chip at the periphery? The seminaries are the problem. I would guess that every single one of them is teaching using the Higher Critical method of biblical interpretation. This is a direct attack on God's word. Look it up. Higher Criticism or Biblical Criticism discounts the miraculous, the power and very nature of God and turns it into a thing of "what is the kernel of truth behind this passage, It obviously isn't literal. It obviously is allegorical." The Historical Grammatical interpretation on the other hand recognizes the Almighty and all powerful God who indeed has created all that exists by simply speaking it into existence. It attributes miracles as fact, treats the scripture with the utmost respect. It assumes that what is written is correct and from God. Higher criticism is the antithesis of that. All is questionable under it. Your sems are the problem. I found this out back in the late 80's. Most mainline church bodies are in the same boat. UMC, ELCA, PCUSA, now Southern Baptists, Episcopal etc. are so departed from God's wrod that they have substituted a false gospel for it. And what has been the logical outcome of it? Tell me, You know! It is this: God's word is full of error, the miracles are nice stories to help us in our faith (faith in what you might ask), Jesus did not really die for the sins of the world, but if he did, he certainly did not rise from the dead and ascend into heaven bodily. And because they all gravitated in this direction, the actual spiritual and social implications have been laid. In these church bodies, there is now NO LAW to which we are accountable and thus NO GOSPEL which can save us from that law that condemns us. The boiled down teachings have become essentially thus: Do good things for others and be kind to animals and there is no sin except for the sin of intolerance. Pounding the air trying to fight against God's clear word will not change it folks. So, are you simply on the caboose of the big black train ( as the old song goes) or on the train to heaven? The apostate church will not be found in heaven.

[@amypatton6730]

Why do the members who want to uphold the church discipline have to leave the UMC? SHOULDN'T the people who DON'T want to uphold these traditional beliefs leave to form their own progressive church?

[@lillianegleston6648]

Sola Scriptura! ~ If you are going to call yourself a Christian and be honest you must follow scripture as it is written and NOT try to twist the words to fit worldly agendas. Anything else is dishonest and heresy! ✝ I pray that God will guide the Methodists to follow His will, in Jesus Name... Amen

[@NiveusLepus]

I grew up in the Methodist Church and received my degree in religious studies from a Wesleyan University in 2003. I've since moved to a new faith entirely from Christianity, but I remember us debating these things way back then. I'm boggled that it's taken this long for my old church to split.

[@gordoncochrane6325]

Any old faith is no good to God ,that"s why jesus died for your sin and mine !

[@kennethsmith8844]

The same issues is taking place in the SBC now

[@gaeilgesinger1]

following with interest as an ex-Methodist "loved out the door" due to the location of my residence making me a direct threat to the congregation, stand on the cohesive Veracity of God's Word, and finally, the wrong color of my carcass into which I was shoved by DNA.

[@AS-tt8ui]

Our church can't survive if the traditionalists leave. They are the workers and givers. It's a small church with only about 40 members present on Sunday. One family goes back 8 generations and they are leaving. Many many churches will close. This did not have to happen!

[@Jayee9999]

How is it that when you described the basis for United Methodist defining marriage you spoken terms of culture and history? How come you couldn’t say God given, God ordained or what the Bible says?

[@drcharleswchristian]

Is the refusal that widespread, though? I'm not seeing a high percentage of people who don't want to keep the Book of Discipline. I see some. Doesn't seem like a ton, though.

[@danielhixon8209]

Good question; I think the question is not really how many pastors or members are refusing to uphold & defend the Church's faith, but how many bishops. The entire college of bishops of the Western Jurisdiction and many bishops in the other jurisdictions are now openly in defiance of church law. And they are the very ones charged with keeping good order in the church. Not only that, but very few bishops and perhaps only 1 out of 13 seminaries are now committed to defending or making the case for why the church believes what it believes. Add to that the gains Progressives made in terms of Jurisdictional delegates - it looks probable that they will completely "run the table" when new bishops are elected later this year. Bishops then get to nominate who serves on Boards of Ministry, who will go to "prominent pulpits" - and you can see the implications for how our Conferences will be led going forward. I don't really know if launching the GMC this year was actually the right move, but that is the move that conservative leaders made, so going forward it seems extremely likely that new candidates for ministry who actually are committed to historic Methodist standards will go GMC and not UMC, so this will push the available pool of potential pastors for our local churches further "left" by default. In my own conference we usually have about 6-10 new elders ordained and usually about half are traditionalists committed to maintaining our historic teachings. This year there were 0 traditionalists. The question I think is not just "how bad is it now" but "how bad is it likely to be in 10 years... 20 years?"

[@rockysharp5817]

What’s going to happen to methods children’s homes ?

[@danielhixon8209]

I would imagine that they will continue to cultivate relationships and donors among Methodists who stay UMC as well as those who leave; there is nothing to stop an independent Methodist congregation or a GMC congregation from continuing to support the Children's Home or UMCOR or a ministry that they feel does good work.

[@dannyrowland1660]

God made every one the way they are . Stright Gay Bi Trans Queer. We are Born the way we are

[@danielhixon8209]

Hi Danny, What are you are saying is certainly the "pitch" made to our culture by the LGBTQPIAN+ community back in the 80s and 90s and most people in our culture now accept this; this is what I call the "Lady Gaga" argument ("I was born this way"). But, if you are interested in engaging on this question, I'd like to ask you: 1) How do you know that God made people this way? Certainly people are born with all sorts of birth defects or predispositions to certain addictions and so on; some are incompatible with life, health, and flourishing; babies are born with 2 heads, etc. I see this not as "God's intent" but as a consequence of living in a fallen world. It is not our "fault" if we are born with "built in" struggles, but neither is it God's intention. The Bible tells us that exactly the same applies to same-sex attraction in Romans 1 (that it is a result of the Fall). So, on what basis do you make this (contrary) claim that you are making about God? 2) If we accept the cultural narrative that you have articulated - that our identity is immutable from birth and "God don't make mistakes", why then is it that we are also being told by the LGBTQPIAN+ advocates that we need to give corrective hormone treatments and sex-change operations to those who identify as trans-sexual? Surely, God put them in the right body to begin with? (as implied in Gen. 1:26-8) It seems to me a self-contradictory position to hold.

[@kevanhubbard9673]

The Disunited Methodist Church?

[@rinze9367]

😂😂😂

[@Anon.5216]

Vassula Ryden an evangelist was told by Jesus that the Methodists would unite with the Anglicans, and then the Anglicans will unite with the Catholics. The Holy Spirit will have His way. I hope it will be soon.

[@thomthompson9217]

Gods word is abundantly clear regarding the conduct of pastors AND parishioners. Personal politics and Feelings have absolutely nothing to do with the directives and moral conduct God expects from pastors. Though morality of greater society has deteriorated, those who the Holy Spirit called to the ministry have the responsibility to lead the church in accordance with the word of God…NOT progressive or woke ideology. Nowhere in God‘s ward has there ever been a dispensation to remove certain sins from the category of transgressions against God‘s law. Whether homosexuality, thievery, drunkenness, lying, refusing to honor parents and God, it makes no difference… These are sins and will always remain sins. However As the word of God states if we repent we have an advocate who paid the price for these sins… Jesus Christ the righteous. As Romans states when we repent of our sins he is the propitiation by way of faith in his shed blood whereby we are forgiven. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand because the fact remains that no formal church dogma, board of directors, group of pastors, or any other officials can override the truth God has given us in the Scriptures. Those who continue to pursue this progressive humanistic dogma are leading the parishioners straight to hell. And as the scripture says they will be judged more harshly than anyone else… It will be better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck. I

[@Calnurseguy]

Will you remain in The UMC or go over to the Global ?

[@danielhixon8209]

Good question, and a fair one: My wife and I have been talking and praying alot about where we will go; I am still walking with my local church through their decision making process and I want to share that with them in appropriate ways before putting it up here, but I expect I'll likely do a video addressing where we are going when the time comes and all the decisions are made.

[@Jdkgndkh]

Well this pastor was kicked out the UMC after violating some rules. So… there goes your answer.

[@russ254]

kicked out for following the rules, more accurately

[@billantonelli6604]

Watch a KZbin video called “Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing” to see the big picture on why this is happening…

[@jetpilot3714]

Can you provide a link? There’s a ton of videos titled that.

[@billantonelli6604]

Done!👍

[@jetpilot3714]

@@billantonelli6604 Thank you. I’ve started watching this already. Good info and it’s sad more can’t see what is going on.

[@billantonelli6604]

I try to share this as much as possible…. They’ve been trying to destroy our country for decades. But if we read the Holy Bible, this has all been foretold and that is the actual “big picture”. God is in control.

[@billantonelli6604]

Weird that on my laptop the link is there…🤔

[@sammysneed6679]

coC is the way to go

[@chrisstrobel3439]

So now there are two UMC’s .. one orthodox and the other heterodox? Is the orthodox one confessional?

[@danielhixon8209]

Hi Chris Strobel, In a sense, the answer is "Yes." But it is a bit more complicated. The Global Methodist Church (GMC) was launched by current UMC leaders this month as a more Biblically/historically orthodox alternative to the UMC. The UMC is still quite orthodox on paper and - in many cases - that is also true "on the ground" with pastors, congregations, and bishops. And in many other cases, it is not true on the ground. The UMC already has Articles of Religion and a Confession of Faith and the GMC is adding the Nicene Creed as an 'official' confession of faith, and will no doubt put more emphasis on all of these documents than the UMC currently does. So far (as far as I have heard) very few churches have joined the GMC. I expect to see more disaffiliations being approved at Annual Conference meetings this summer and probably quite a bit more still next summer. So far (again, as far as I have heard) most churches that have already left have gone independent and some have gone Free Methodist or Evangelical Methodist. I've talked to a few that are interested in the ACNA. So it remains to be seen how many of the churches leaving the UMC will "land" in the GMC, though most all of them will either be independent or land in a more thoroughly orthodox "on the ground" church.

[@cliffordishii3738]

By becoming Biblical Christians, Christians can without denomination or their buildings worship God and fellowship with believers at any time and in any place.

[@dchewning1]

Why are local ministers not discussing this with church members, it seems it is driven by bishops to not let the members know, keep them in the dark until the progressives can out maneuver the globals. Seems too political to not let the church members know how the politics work at the higher/bishop level. Whose church is it the members that attend or management that think they know what is best and seek their way.

[@barbararenner5473]

I was a Methodist until I discovered the true church 24 years ago when I became a Roman Catholic. I pray that you will read the church Fathers and begin your journey to the Truth.

[@gordoncochrane6325]

Jesus is the truth and the way not any Church .Have you met Jesus as Saviour.,iknow many Rc"s who have !

[@bengray423]

You can't justify sin just repent of it! GOD has not changed ! GOD changes men, men can't change GOD! Go back to Christianity! What did GOD do to Sodom? Yes you know! Truth in LOVE!

[@gitfiddler716]

The real problem comes from merging back with the Yankee Methodists back in the 1930's. 😁😁

[@adamcarroll5130]

Wow! That sounds loving!, No different than the secular political world in which we live. Very sad!

[@annpippin6388]

BB never used. the word solutions in my comment .

[@tedmartin5239]

Attendace is horrible in South Florida, many churches closed or merged..

[@davidgagnon7806]

What do the Scriptures say about homosexuality?

[@uthyrgreywick5702]

I hate the caveats at the end. You referenced the what the Bible has to say, I agree, why don't you read Romans 1, 2 Peter 2, and Jude, and Revelation 2 and 3. They comment on those who bring in heresy and how believers in Jesus are to deal with them. Just because a "church" has a name that it is alive, doesn't mean that it isn't dead. Blessings

[@robellis9181]

The church will split and the traditionalist will leave. This could have been prevented had the UMC followed the doctrine as written but it did not.

[@SavedInANanosecond.]

Never heard the one true gospel of grace shared. Lotta religion...bout zero Jesus...

[@tb4irish1]

God Himself started 1 Church. Manmade churches are out of that union. Until ALL Christians come together as 1, we will forever be divided. There is 1 Catholic Church and , many "c"atholic churches.

[@anitastreiffert3448]

So the UMC will be cutting up the Bible - cutting out all the things that they do not believe in! Wow! God does have a very high standard and todays churches seem to be leaning more and more left! So the traditional belieers have to leave and make a "new denominaltion"!

[@jdbreaux8080]

Thank you Daniel! Great and informative. God loves ALL his children'. If the UMC does harm, to ANY people by the book of discipline, it fails to serve the body of Christ. We as a united people should never cast eyes down on those they believe are unworthy is not a choice by those individuals. Everyone should be able to serve Christ in *ANY* way. If God's children are part of any political "side" whatever it is, they should be seeking their answers in the very church! Anyone short of God's teachings needs to remain at the congregation where they love their brothers and sisters. A judgement cast on any peoples is NOT our choice to make. Their is no room in ANY church to reject in *any capacity any of God's children.* If you are born with no hands, you should not be cast away. That (person or group of people) should not be sent away from acceptance by God's children. It is not a choice that you were born without hands. It is not a choice for homosexuals anymore than those without hands. People do not believe this. They believe it to be a choice. It is NOT. And that is their lack of understanding. I (we should) want any of God's children to worship with any church. If the church believes that they (anyone) are not worthy of allowing them to serve Christ, that does harm and is wrong. If anyone is "living in sin", THEY belong *inside* the church, *not outside*. So those whom do not support people by *their* teachings and *their judgement* goes against humanity and God's unconditional love for *all of his children.* The teachings of "Leviticus Law" were in also in those times of slavery being acceptable and even supported! I/we do not believe in slavery in 2022. I/we do not believe it is a law to support slavery in any form and that is true and should have always been. It makes no sense that we become hypocritical in 2022 that our laws in the free world abandon ANY of God's children. It is not our place to cast that judgement. We must abide by God's love and with the laws *in this time*, not "Leviticus Law" not current in this time of greater understanding of the free world. There is no conflict here. What about the children? You teach them that God loves all people no matter who they are. A great time and place to teach our children that God loves everyone without condition. God's love is boundless. Teach your children your wisdom. Please do not teach them what they should like. We do not want to heard what we do not like, but we must accept reality. Too much time is being wasted and all of us need to make changes to do NO harm. If a Drag Queen wishes to serve God, he should be allowed to. A person without hands, indeed serve as you can. If we feel either is not worthy of serving God, that is our problem, not God's unconditional love. If that human wishes to serve, he is in the right place to learn what is God's teachings are about. His understanding of the teachings should not be compelled and cast out of any church, he should be welcome so that he can learn what God wants him to know. Cast out, sent away, how will he ever lean? Casting away his desire to serve God is the very worst thing any congregation should allow, careless do. His soul may never be saved, if cast away from any church. Thanks to our own ignorance and our own judgement. Not by grace. Not of God's unconditional love. I go to church to be taught. I go for fellowship. I go for "the Body of Christ." ANYONE should hold to those values, at their on pace. Otherwise we simply perpetuate hate and damage to "The body of Christ." Those who attend church go because they need to! They should know that! They know they are not without sin! We can't have it both ways! We should accept all of Gods children! It is NOT our place to judge and systematically turn away from anyone seeking to serve God, Jesus and the Holy Trinity. That is an illusion for so many people to even think otherwise. We must stop doing harm to "The Body of Christ." We MUST! I pray my comments be read with God's love. Because I will continue to bring to the very "Body of Christ" ANYONE seeking his love. ANYONE! Gay or without hands, allow them to serve God the very best way any human being can. Because we are ALL human, seeking to grow into God's deeper love. Boundless with true grace. Psalms 19:14, may the words... I do not want a schism in any denomination, especially when it is part of our name. To be "United" in and with God's words. Not ours! His! Let us extinguish all of our forms of judgment and deep rooted hate in every form. Allow people seeking God, and serving him to experience his words and teachings to our very souls. If we appreciate God's grace and understand it, who are we to make our own judgements and write hurtful things as discipline. How can we call ourselves disciples? We are nothing without Gods grace and love. Nothing! We should reflect that by our own actions without further thought. I know the lyrics to "Abide with me" as I listen to Richard play this hymn at: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3zMhYV_bspoipY at 1:33:16 into the video. Know the words to this first as your hear this call. Indeed I shall abide with his desires for humanity, all of his children. I abide with me, God's unconditional love. To The Spirit. I abide with ease. "I abide with me" and it comes naturally in my soul. Amen.

[@hawkeyeannieful]

We as the body of Christ shouldn’t assume that the reasoning behind all this is to hurt another person. It’s not. It’s about the Book of Discipline not being followed. It’s about changing pronouns in the Bible to suite todays view point. All LGBQT is persons that belongs to God. I don’t want them as my ordained pastor as they are saying one thing and doing another. It’s an abomination unto the Lord, and will suffer the consequences, as they have in the diseases they get. It’s really about the money to tell you the truth. UMC has left us, for progressive behavior.

[@kimprather4121]

Please don’t assume this is just about homosexuality. It is not. Many progressive churches are not preaching the gospel, are denying the divinity of Christ, and don’t believe in the resurrection. There have already been services within UMC churches that are including pagan rituals among other unbiblical teachings. It grieves my heart that this split is happening, but I must be loyal to Christ and His teachings. I must leave.

[@chasecrickenberger4691]

Serious question, Daniel, the vast majority of young clergy -- those under 40 -- disagree with the BoD's current teachings on human sexuality. If you look at clergy under 30, that statistic is even more unanimous -- even amongst otherwise theologically conservative young people like myself. How is the GMC, which you seem to be advocating for, going to to maintain and recruit clergy as generational opinions on human sexuality shift? You seem to assert that you believe the UMC has an unsustainable future without the GMC churches. However, how will the GMC continue to recruit young clergy and young members while building the foundations of their new denomination on the singular issue of human sexuality?

[@danielhixon8209]

Hi Rev. Crickenberger, I've not seen any actual research on this, but my hunch is that you are correct about the majority of young UMC clergy disagreeing with church teaching on sexual morality -- If you only consider American clergy, that is (our America-centrism over against a true catholicity is a whole other issue behind this debate). It is also quite clear that the movement of mainline churches in a more progressive direction has most certainly not helped increase the number of young clergy or young members; indeed, if you compare us to the Assemblies of God, the opposite would seem to be the case. So I think your argument can actually cut the other way. But the bigger issue is not (in my view) what do the young people, or the young clergy, or the old people, or the tithers, or the bishops, or any other constituency within the church want, but - ultimately - what does our Lord want. What has he clearly revealed? It is his church and he can provide for it as he will (probably in ways that will surprise us and all our data-driven assumptions). It may well be that the GMC (and at this point it is not at all clear to me that I will ever join the GMC; I actually have some reservations) is not sustainable, or not as anything more than a very small offshoot group in the long run. The real question I have to answer (and answer for on the Day of Judgement) is, "What does it mean for me to be faithful to our Lord and his Word here and now?"

[@stephenrankin8916]

Your political bias is clouding your attempt at explaining the situation. The "structure" started it's demise when it decided that it's "connection" was more important than it's congregation. The "connection" decided that congregations were only useful as sheep to be sheared for the benefit of the "connection". The gospel became secondary, worship became secondary, Sundays became secondary etc. etc. etc. The "sheep" no longer were being served by the clergy, but the clergy were instead being served by the sheep. Methodist lost 1/2 of their congregation since the early 1970s because of the clergy worshiping politics instead of God. Politics has no time for multiple points of view. The "connection" made it clear that there can be but one opinion that is correct. Instead of a congregation of individuals all with a personal relationship with God, the Methodists cut God out and started demanding a unified "connection" in politcal correctness. Interesting that the Gospel spells it out quite simply that the only connection in Christianity is love, not the political idols of the clergy. "Justice" is an evil concept when in the hands of people. One person's justice is another person's injustice. Justice demands revenge, justice demands winners and losers. It takes a lot of hubris for clergy to preach "justice" from the pulpit. When they do, they are judged for what we all are ......... hypocrites.

[@johngriffin7265]

The word of God doesn’t have multiple opinions….it has one; Gods that is the point and the reason for the split. Left leaning members should have no problem with traditionals leaving the UMC….unless THEY are the ones restricting freedom and passing judgement on others.

[@stephenrankin8916]

@@johngriffin7265 God has one opinion, everyone who believes in God has an individual opinion about God and his word. Those opinions have always been there, but those opinions have become a threat to those who nolonger believe in God but worship opinions instead. When reading the word of God, no two people have the same reaction, the same understanding, the same belief. The problem with modern Methodists and all the main line denominations is that they stopped teaching the word of God and started teaching opinions about politics and thats when 1/2 the congregation left because they knew the Gospel was being ignored. The many of those that stayed, stayed because they were worshiping the tradition and were willing to ignore the politics. That can only last so long. The only successful congregations left have pastors that work hard for the congregations everyday, and teach the Gospels. They ever mention politics and God together, and never "demand" that "they" know God's opinion. The only good pastors are those that do not offend any side of an "opinion" and so the congregation even though split in half on their opinions assume the pastor is on their side.

[@markballantyne393]

It would be much easier to be united, forming schisms involves to much triviality

[@z5ajdt]

Very sad to see the United Methodist Church splitting. Ugh...

[@patriciacovington9790]

So agree- makes me sad

[@bubb5225]

The United Methodist - excuse me, Methodist-Episcopal - Church has split before. It split into north and south a decade or two before the Civil war broke out in 1861. It survived that schism and it will survive the current one.

[@davidgagnon7806]

If we are on a trajectory to more and more INCLUSION, then I don't think it's ridiculous question to ask where do we stop including. If we are on a trajectory to more and more INCLUSION, then I don't think that it is a ridiculous question to ask when do we include pedophiles? If the issue is not confined to homosexuality but to the broader theme of human sexuality, then THAT is a reasonable question to ask. If we are on a trajectory to more and more INCLUSION, then is the goal UNIVERSAL INCLUSION? Why not just join a Universalist/Unitarian church?

[@nunagoras]

If there is something the liberals on the Church, at least on my own RCC, are very proud of, that is to avoid both the pedophiles and the polygamous alike. We don't want promiscuity of any sort! So; now; if you're talking about loving and caring relations between 2 individuals as stated on the laws of the land, then yes. We're able to accept, as far as one only handles a relationship with another person at a preferably long time relation. It amazes me that the current conservative tribes in the mainline Churches in the USA are living in bed with some of the African Churches that hidden their long time eye closure on their in home polygamy, promiscuity and kids abuse strong rates!... Hypocrisy at its best. To each their own, really...

[@Jdkgndkh]

Homosexuality is a sexual preference while pedophilia is a crime and mental illness. Those are two very different things, and to be honest there are probably more pedophiles in churches than gay people right now, yet homosexuality is somehow the big issue here. Jesus sat and ate with the sinners, showing them the godly way of life. If Jesus did that why can’t the church in 2023 do that as well. Who are we to turn people away?! Gays makeup maybe 3% or less of the US population so why is this the biggest issue of the church? Especially when the number of people going to church has declined tremendously in the past couple of years.

[@randyjourden9856]

You have to pick a side you either believe in God's version of the church , Or people that just want attention. This will end up pushing people away from church!!

[@ellencooney5563]

Shifted in 1973. Tail wags dog every time.

[@warrior7350]

Do Methodists read the Bible?

[@KD-nk3ht]

Do yo mama smoke crack cocaine?

[@carmenwilley8858]

Why, have you heard they do not?

[@jimpease280]

I do.

[@greekcajuntexan]

I don't think many of the "progressive" Methodists do, if that helps your quest for knowledge.

[@gordoncochrane6325]

Not read the Bible .Believe the Bible ?

[@speaklifegardenhomesteadpe8783]

The church structures as exist are not the way Jesus taught us to be. To many men between you and the freedom in Christ to go do his work and by his will and call, yet many have no idea how to even Discern this alone... and there's no place to go sabbatical with God for a time surrounded by truly God fearing men full of the holy spirit, discernment, discipline and who walk with sincere fear and trembling when handling matters for the LORD. My walk as led by the holy spirit is not perfect, but I know who I answer to and I know what I stand for. No one else votes for it, no money trades hands and the place I go to meet God in sabbatical only me and him know. The body of Christ suffers while proud men in fancy clothes pat each other's backs and play games to gamble for Jesus clothes. Jesus called us to not forsake the gathering of the brethren, however he told us to GO OUT and spread the good news, to bear one another's burdens and love your neighbor as yourself... This wasn't for no reason... Not only was it strategic to prevent us from becoming a target and fish in a barrel, but it's the best way to grow a harvest, by spreading seed all over. You can't target, or politically target... A hidden church. Hidden by God. United by our faith and by the leading of the holy spirit who we in faith, obey and follow. By study, fasting, prayer, searching the scriptures and listening.. We learn discernment by the teaching of the holy spirit. We have a huge problem. This is the great falling away as prophesized... In my opinion... And none of the church systems will be able to bear the attacks because for one it is also my opinion only... That God wants them to be broken as they're not an image or reflection of him. He should look at the church, the body of Christ, and see his reflection... I argue most so called church members have no idea who God really even is. They can't defend their faith. I question if they would suffer or die for their walk. Long suffering. When suffering and persecution brings strength. Persecution is coming. Ensure YOU can stand and bear and stand again, even bearing your brethrens burden, then stand more, only God as your strength. Can you stand? I pray so.

[@hmm7204]

in light of Jesus' prayer that we be One as HE and The Father are ONE, why wouldn't we see this as a final sign that we may be on the wrong track having separated ourselves from the one church that claims to be the one Church Christ established with it's Popery, and prayers to the Saints, veneration of the Mother of Christ who is God and all the rest. At least they are no quibling about whether or not they, or half of their body will begin to embrace that which the Bible calls an abomination. It sounds to me like something is not passing the smell test. Do we believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God or do we not. If we do, how can we accept the fact that we also believe that individuals among our membership have the power and authority to come to a new interpretation from the one the world wide Methodist body held sacred just about 5 minutes ago? Those in the pew are being thrown into confusion by their own church elders. That's wrong. It sounds like we might be more interested in scratching the itching ears than we are in upholding the unchanging truth of the Gospel. I'm joining the Catholic Church in response to this. The only Church body that can literally trace their lineage back to the apostles. Thier doctrine is also unchanging as are the teachings we glean from the Holy Bible.