Helldivers 2: What Happened?

[@09ALPHAROGUE]

People like feeling powerful, because power is fun. Take away too much power, or make too many hoops to jump through, and people check out. Plain and simple.

[@seththepotate]

The way I see it is that's what the difficulties are for. I agree that being powerful is fun, but HD2 really seems to want to ride the balance between power and adversity. Helldivers, despite the in-universe hype, are glorified grunts that are supposed to die. The power and success comes from overcoming hell. If players want the power fantasy, they can drop the difficulty (and since they added super samples to 6, that's an extra incentive) or if they want the insane challenge, they can go for 10. Sure making the game into a power fantasy slaughterfest would be fun, but for how long? The game is already highly repetitive and making it easier without a real challenge might make it stale more quickly. However, I'll *gladly* eat my words if this seemingly new direction makes the game easier, more fun to all, and extends the longevity while still managing to keep the challenge or possibility of it. Time will tell. But I'm certain that within the near future there will be a small nerf, or a fix that acts like a nerf, or something else will happen and we'll be right back here again.

[@nekrovulpes]

@@seththepotate The problem in Helldivers is the lower difficulties aren't the whole experience, and the balance of the weapons does not account for this. Playing below 7 is not an easier version of the full experience, it's a lesser experience where you don't encounter the same enemy variety; and in turn that's the only reason you get to pick weapons you just simply would not pick on 7/8/9. Certain enemies (chargers, hulks, etc) act as filter gates, they don't incentivise you to vary your loadout, they incentivise you to narrow it, because you effectively have to be using a weapon that can deal with those threats. I loved this game and racked up a lot of playtime on it, both with randos on 7-8s and my friend as a duo on 5-6s, but in the end it just got tiresome when every new update was just a bunch of nerfs that never felt truly necessary.

[@Botar48]

@@seththepotate Helldivers are not just grunts though, thats regular SEAF. Helldivers are glasscannons. They are expected to die by dozens but also they are given best weapons Super Earth has. In the lore Helldiver missions rack up costs comparable to building entire starships, and one stratagem is equal to what average citizen makes in a year. That's why balance discussion is around the weapons. Ideal is killing the unending hordes of enemies fast with super strong weapons but also dying instantly if you slip up either to enemy or to your own weapons.

[@LD-sx9pr]

18:52 is less armored yes, but the reason it's not a weakpoint is because of durable damage, which is not a bad mechanic but was too high for the charger so light pen guns take forever to kill or even medium guns

[@seththepotate]

I see. Thank you! I knew somebody would know the complete mechanic.

[@ethanlauricella]

Intersting take on the flame thrower. I played on release with my friends, haven't played much since, but we hated anyone running flamethrower as it would often lead to a team mates demise. I think the reason we haven't come back to playing is the power creep in enemys has surpassed the power creep in weapons for each update. Alongwith this, while there is a significant amount of upgrades, the grind is super grindy for very little return. It would be amazing if they added in longer grind goals, maybe limited 1 use items, or larger player events.

[@JustLovett0]

Great points, great video. Gonna try some other weapons out to not be "stuck with my usual" when I get on next.

[@TheLotusEaterUnveiled]

Eruptor wasn’t 1 shotting BTs the patch notes was about it blowing the butt off chargers in one shot. Railgun was the thing that one shot BTs and that was due to a bug at launch. Even if Eruptor could 1 shot BTs, shrapnel could also rebound and kill you, so it was really risky. Just wanted to correct that bit of misinformation. And yea, The developers themselves stated it was Chargers vs eruptor

[@seththepotate]

Right right. I got some stuff mixed up. Score another for the charger though, that rat bastard. Screwing everything up

[@silentphotographer117]

My GF and I play this game religiously. We would use the most "nonmeta" thing's imaginable and would get thrashed but still stick to 8s and 9s cause the difficulty was so fun. We genuinely feel disconnected from all the complaints these days , since we never really went into this game with a power fetish lol.

[@TigerDan04]

Dude, you nailed it. Great analysis! I can tell how much you like the game. I bought it months ago and have been waiting for a good chance to fire it up. Thank Democracy

[@Monkeysaurus_Rex]

I agree with everything you said. I believe the flamethrower should still do some damage through armor, as you would theoretically cook them through the armor. Im not saying tons of damage, just a little.

[@seththepotate]

Agreed. It really could come down to how it works in the code itself. From what I gather from people way more informed than I am, the change was adjusting the fire from a raycast or hitscan type thing that could ignore a lot of stuff such as armor to a particle system that does damage based on particle impact. Blending the two or using a sort of AoE on the particles with a damage falloff could get the best of both worlds. But alas the point is moot with the Flamethrower slated to be reverted in the next update. We'll see how it goes, I guess.

[@Caragoner]

My genuine reason for quitting was the fact stalkers could head shot. Im sorry but being headshot by a faster bug who comes in swarms is unfun. Heavy armor, something i was jonesing for since I LOVE tanking, being useless even after being fixed... Fuck that. Also while i agree on your takes. Definitely the enemies are the big problem. Theres a difference between hard and abusive and the enemies tend to lean towards frustrating in my opinion.

[@seththepotate]

Fuckin stalkers dude. I totally forgot to talk about them. They're ridiculously overtuned. Speed, damage, durability, AND stealth is insane. Plus the ability to essentially stunlock you with the ragdoll. They definitely need to have their health reduced or something.

[@BagelBoi4000]

Hopped on with a friend for the first time in a while to do some robot missions. Theres now an AT ST but without a visible rider meaning it can only be killed if you get lucky and his weapons explode killing it or if you have armour penatration. There were a few of these where I destroyed its rocket launchers but the walker itself was still alive and I just couldnt damage it. Theres also now a flying drone ship thats shoots down death from above that can only be killed using a long range support weapon. I just wanted to use a flame thrower because it feels cool and thats what I used on launch (before it was buffed) but it doesnt even touch these enemies and my shitty little smg couldnt puncture the armour. I dont want to be a one man army but I want to be able to damage the enemies im fighting. And then when you do die youre without your support weapon for upwards of 8 minutes unless you can get back to your corpse so your shitty primary weapon is doing nothing to 90% of the enemies. To be honest still to this day I have no clue how you damage the ATAT strider thing without having 1 or 2 specific support weapons. I just want the primary weapons to be better, that or have the support weapons have less ammo but shorter cooldowns. Maybe this is a skill issue on my loadout selection but I think any weapon should be at least useable.

[@BagelBoi4000]

Oh and dont get me started on ragdoll mechanics, the slow creep to the amount of explosives on the robot front is awful. I always prefered the robot missions but maybe I just gotta go do some bug ones because im sick of being launched around the map by explosive launchers I cant even see.

[@NDB1010]

Great vid love seeing someone who understands games. Your either a true gaming connoissewer, you've dabbled in game development, or you just have a brain.

[@withhell5959]

I didnt play much (about 30hours) both helldivers 1 and 2, but for me the biggest fun killer going from 1st game to 2nd were limiting amount of redeploys. As i see it doing that insensitivised players to play more "meta" builds. For me Helldivers is a game where challenge comes from the overwhelming number of enemies and not their tankiness. I think it is not fun when a charger can take 3 rockets in the head and live (and the game spawns several of them at once). But idk maybe it is better now, haven't played since sony situation

[@ChristianMeyer]

Mostly agree with this. I kinda wanted this game to be Helldivers 3D because I loved the first game. The thing is the first game had a lot shorter ttk and it was fun for it. I feel like they have higher ttk in HD2 because you can shoot enemies from a lot farther away, but that makes your weapons feel like nerf guns which is not fun. I have hopes for the upcoming patch to change that, but weapon nerfs will be necessary after that. There's gonna be outrage all over again.

[@seththepotate]

See that's my concern. The buffs and changes incoming will likely be great and revitalize the game or whatever but mark my words, the moment one single nerf comes through after this, the outcry will be back.

[@sarge5431]

Heavy armor being useless killed it

[@chefboyjc9439]

they should take a page from the first games book and just change it so you're immune to all fodder enemies

[@austinandrus4180]

It was amazing in the beginning. There was a small community that I found that was super into the game. I was in a rough spot and couldn't afford it but the cries for democracy were so great that it was lifted to me. Best beginning. Then they nerfed everything and the passion for the game dried up

[@Arleer158]

I have no trouble popping the charger's butt with a regular machine gun or auto cannon. It's really not that hard, a stun grenades makes it downright easy. I feel like everyone is just hopping on the negativity bandwagon and just whining. So many GREAT games and aspects of games have been ruined by people complaining because they're not succeeding. Do I think Arrowhead needs to fix some things? Yeah. Do I think the game should be made easier? Not really, no.

[@chriswatkin8379]

Great video man

[@blankspace178]

*OK SO, MOST PLAYERS SEEM TO MISUNDERSTAND WHAT HELLDIVERS 2 IS GOING FOR....SO I'LL EXPLAIN.* HD2 is a tower defense game at its core, think of Demigod or League of Legends (vs ai). Only instead of being a "powerful champion" you're playing the role of the minions that constantly spawn in and try to take lanes. You're not meant to be a specialized character with cooldown abilities that can face-wreck npcs, you're meant to be disadvantaged and forced to fight strategically. Unfortunately, most players treat the game as a shooting gallery, which was never the intention.

[@MSIXVI06]

Game became repetitive is the big one. Because just turning the dial up is not enough. It's like that time when burgers you couldn't possibly fit in your mouth was trending. Great for marketing. Totally impractical and excessive as a dining experiance. Gamers got bored.

[@sandshifter258]

Wait you are the guy Alex was talking about my brother I see why he liked watching your streams and videos

[@MrWabaki]

one of the most wasted potential in gaming right now. Those devs have literally zero clue where to go with the game. It could have so much cool stuff in it but they rather reskin the weapons and give them different stats nothing more. For me its not the balancing rather the lack of intressting content like better maps, new stratagems, experimental weapons and new mission types and so much more that comes to mind. I know they added some but besides the new enemys its rather boring.

[@drimiss8712]

boo hoo blah blah patch's coming stop crying.

[@MrWabaki]

@@drimiss8712 certified fanboy over here

[@applepi4035]

​@@MrWabaki i havent played in months and i am still excited for the new buffs and warbond which addresses issues you brought up, adds new strategems and buffs some weapons up to 250% effectiveness. Additionally there is an MO going on right now to unlock the napalm barrages, still no enough for me to be a regular but ill try it again on the 17th. you cant counter an opinion people disagree with by just calling them a fanboy, plus, if you arent a fanboy youre less qualified to talk about the game anyways

[@MrWabaki]

@@applepi4035 And what did he exactly add to my comment? Nothing? I reacted like that cause he reacted like a child who cant comprehend criticism to his only passion that is clearly flawed in many ways. And as i said i dont mind their balancing but the lack of intressting new content. As an example where is the third faction that has been teasered one or two months after release or the hive lords. As a lifeservice game its way to slow and i know its not the biggest team but im sure they can certainly do better than that.

[@alanzapanta7254]

BUFF coming. CASE closed lol