Henry Ford vs Karl Marx. Epic Rap Battles Of History -

[@StrongandStable17]

"We only had slavery for 100 years." The UK and Korea are much, much older than the United States. To compare them is to misunderstand the very concept of time. Expecially as Britain had nominally abolished slavery - 40 years before it was such a contentious issue in the United States that it erupted into Civil War.

[@LouisWilliams-ic1kb]

Also the uk had the Industrial Revolution witch made machine more efficient than slaves massively ending slavery for the most of the world now

[@soundwavegamer2321]

And if you want to get into pedantic’s England had actually outlawed slavery in 1060’s under King William I and while their colonies did have slavery it was forbidden on the English isles and any Slave that was brought to the Island to be a permanent resident with their master was to be freed and made into a low waged servant.

[@panzerwolf494]

People make that hundred years remark based on a technicality that the US was founded in the late 1700's. The whole time Europeans were building society there was slavery there. The US just became an independent country that carried on with the slavery already there

[@jprogaminggd]

Karl Marx took it for me. They both have great lines, but I think Marx came out harder. In the first round, I think it's a tie. In the second round, Marx came out harder. Ford was just like, "Eww, you smell." Then, in the third round, Marx definitely annihilated Ford with those last two lines. I'm glad they did another historical-based battle. Also, can we talk about how Lloyd looks exactly like Marx like wtf

[@YTsupportsZionaziGenocide]

Yeah the "you smell bro lines" just don't land in a rap battle of ideology... now if it was a rap battle of who dressed an smelled then Ford would win.

[@panzerwolf494]

Ford's remarks seemed to be mostly insults whereas Marx was stating fact through all of it

[@hayk3000]

Damn I guess the american education system is worse than I thought.

[@HassanSra]

That’s what I’m saying 😂

[@Kreosky]

It is called Epic Rap battles of History so I will never understand why tf people with zero historical knowledge on the mentioned people in battles even watch or react to this.

[@aevum6667]

Im sorry but honestly your rant at the start seems to indicate someone who hears from 2nd and 3rd hand sources what socialists and communists allegedly believe as opposed to from them about what they actually believe.

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

The cycle of “not true socialism” continues

[@MakingUGoOmg]

⁠@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307if you can adequately explain one concept of Marx I would say this comment can slide. But their beginning breakdown is just wrong. Marx wasn’t an idealist, he was a materialist. He never describes how a communist society should look, he only ever gives descriptive claims. He’s a materialist by definition. He also wrote about human nature (Gattungswesen), so he didn’t just assume anything about it.

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

@@MakingUGoOmg How about Marx begging for money from his rich daddy? He wasn’t risking his own neck unlike the workers he tried to get to revolt. He would stand hand in a hand with the champagne socialists today. Marx wouldn’t shame Hasan for buying a mansion and using his family connections to get a job in one of KZbin’s biggest news channels.

[@antythesis751]

@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307 do we care what words mean or not?

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

@@MakingUGoOmg He wanted workers to have a slice of the pie of industry when that makes no sense! It was the employer that took the risk, who bet on themselves and opened a business. You might as well say a low ranking office worker should be paid the same as a CEO or a person who does no overtime should be paid the same as someone who does overtime.

[@micahflanders6789]

This isn’t even about their politics, Karl won, plain and simple. Ford definitely had the better first verse, and was the more entertaining of the two, but his attacks on Karl weren’t deep enough in the 2nd and 3rd round, mostly just playground insults (there still were some good disses). Karl started off decent enough, but by round 2 & 3 he was straight up ruthless. Honestly a pretty great battle overall.

[@Vincisomething]

Karl won even if you didn't understand every verse. He went for the throat.

[@zathobeats]

Karl Marx easily won with his third verse if you watch again carefully. Both were disrespectful but Karl Marx won this.

[@lovelysix6296]

Nah, death references are getting old and repetitive. Just because you mention someone’s death doesn’t mean you “burned” anyone. Very predictable

[@mikkitoro8933]

@@lovelysix6296 That was not the only part in the third act. Marx came in hard, with Ford's Nazi sympathies and how he's a terrible father etc.

[@joshc.6706]

⁠@@mikkitoro8933i totally agree. Also how he was a fascist and he was a reason behind spurring the onset of climate change via pollution from his factories and also for car crashes. Also how he’s not a hypocrite because Engels while yes a capitalist actually shared some views with Marx

[@silentprotagonist8954]

Naw, Ford won. Marx's third verse had heat and the beat was sick, but overall Henry got the dub.

[@zathobeats]

@@silentprotagonist8954 do ya know how rap battles work? the battle wasn't even that close. Even the Flint's water line carried it. It was somewhat debatable till the second round. The bars about his son, car crashes and Auschwitz just took it to the next level. Marx had good counterbacks, too.

[@deshawnedwards6412]

Like clockwork, whenever a new ERB drops these guys are always expected to react to it.

[@HolyShadows777]

i mean, thats everyone XD

[@fireballdragon21]

Reaction starts at 11:12. I'm not Caleb.

[@tusken9669]

Thanks, not Caleb.

[@matthewelliott7294]

Thanks not Caleb

[@jasonulloa]

Not Caleb, thanks.

[@usoo572]

Thanks not caleb

[@gabrielesolletico6542]

Thank you anyway, not-Caleb.

[@jagerzaku9160]

Your old ERB reactions are actually how I found you guys. I remember staying at a KOA campground back in 2014 or 2015 and finding your reaction to the Shaka Zulu vs Julius Caesar battle when it was brand new and from there I just kept watching more and more.

[@spirosgreek1171]

Your true, Marx's vision is extremely idealistic... and thats precisely why we need it. While his perfect world doesnt exist, the fight towards it did give us stuff we today take for granted like Worker's rights, free education and healthcare and a standard of living that in the past was assossiated only with the elite. We probably will never build a perfect society, like Marx envisioned. But its the fight inspired by that dream that will keep improving our lives As for the rap battle, while Ford takes the first verse, Marx easily triumphed in the latter 2

[@dastemplar9681]

Name me one Marxist state that never had a mass grave.

[@spirosgreek1171]

@anguschandler4482 Thanks for the context. I talked more from the scope of "demand everything, so at the end you atleast get something" which is arguably why european countries, despite following capitalist principles, gave their people these rights and previleges. the elites realized that if they didn't make some concessions, they risked a total overthrow (back in the cold war especially, as any revolution would be backed by the Eastern bloc). And that applies even today. any society that becomes complacent with what it has and doesn't keep applying pressure for more, will lose what it has won in due time

[@ceu160193]

@@spirosgreek1171 Elites just figured out, that you need to be more subtle with it. Which is why modern rich people say stuff like "we are just like you" to average worker, instead of dressing up all fancy, like it was at the beginning of capitalism.

[@spirosgreek1171]

@@ceu160193 one more reason you got to keep fighting for your rights, to inspire others to follow. to make your fellow workers see that behind their masks, the higher ups remain exactly the same. They are not like the average worker, simply cause most of them haven't done a single day of work like the average worker. They can empathize with the struggle of the people cause they have never lived in it. simple as that

[@arinleoczko1250]

​@@dastemplar9681 You could count every one and still not add up to the US's kill count. As an American who has fucking eyes, trying to argue who has more bodies is the most pathetic attempt at an argument I've ever seen.

[@highvoltage7797]

It was clearly Marx guys.

[@StrongandStable17]

Yeah they seem to decide these often based on politics more than anything else.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@StrongandStable17Ford and Marx were both awful people

[@StrongandStable17]

​@matityaloran9157 Yes, what does that have to with my comment? Marx clearly won the rap battle and yet it seems as though they can't give him the W because it's Karl Marx.

[@SinnerSoviet]

​@matityaloran9157 what did marx exactly do that was so horrible he literally wrote books.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@SinnerSoviet Had several extramarital affairs, promoted anti-Semitic conspiracy theories (despite himself being Jewish) , mooched off his friend Engels, called for the murder of the entire capitalist class and explicitly supported the Paris Commune which violently persecuted religious clergy and property owners.

[@chloetine]

henry ford said the equivalent of "marx smells bad" while marx said "henry is a nazi"

[@jonathanhathaway54]

One important detail that I think gets often overlooked is the "You didn't read shit line" It comes off as a general insult but I believe it might be a reference to Henry Ford's heavily publicized trail where he had sued a newspaper for liable for calling him and ignorant idealist and anarchist and was asked to take a stand as a witness in the trial he stated how competent he was and how knowledgeable he was on various subjects but when asked for details he gave completely wrong answers the main example was when he was asked who Benedict Arnold was, he stated that he was a famous writer and not an infamous traitor in war he also said with complete confidence that the revolution for independence was in 1812 and not 1776 it's a reference to his overwhelming confidence and general level of incompetence on any issue outside of his wheelhouse I think it should have been made clearer with a courtroom reference

[@Lost_One279]

You guys should check the last 5 seconds of the video because there were some teasers for later ERBs. Keep up the good work, my dudes.

[@corey2818]

I saw them, what you think they’ll be? My guesses are some character from Godzilla, something related to modern family, maybe something to do with dr who and I don’t know for the last one. What do you think?

[@Lost_One279]

@@corey2818 I did see Godzilla in the first frame, but I’m not sure who he’ll be up against because I’m not sure what the second frame is referring to. The 3rd frame looks like the wire hanging scene from the 1st Mission Impossible starring the one and only, Tom Cruise. The final frame is referring to world famous motorcycle stuntman Evel Knievel.

[@Scrubthulhu]

I find it hilarious you spent over half of this reaction video not reacting to anything and trying desperately to defend capitalism when faced with morally better options.

[@Scrubthulhu]

It really feels like most of this battle went over your guys's heads. The only thing you reacted at were the lowest hanging fruit/self-explanatory lines in the whole thing. The only lines you latched onto were the ones that went along with your confirmation bias. And not even all of them!

[@calebmaybin6896]

According to Assassins Creed Lore: Henry Ford was a Templar who designed the Assembly Line as a means to control people and Karl Marx was protected by the Frye Twins.

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

And ubisoft wonders why they get called commies

[@BaldwinIV_of_Jerusalem]

​@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307which is weird because ubisoft is such a greedy company

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

@@BaldwinIV_of_Jerusalem Seems to be hand in hand with Marx. I mean, wanting workers to own means of production but begs his rich father for money? Very hypocritical.

[@BilalAhmad-ff3xq]

@@BaldwinIV_of_Jerusalem a mode of economics where wealth is concentrated in the hands of the few intellectual elites (or really just anyone who knows how to "game" the "system") at the expense of the common man. Yeah sounds like Marx, most of the american corporate sector has arrived at a very similar if the not same conclusion as his.

[@legokangaroo5010]

​@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307if you think a giant corporation is somehow communist, you really need to go back to school.

[@FirstRisingSouI]

Just want to say, there are plenty of functional worker's co-ops. They do not always fail, and do not always lead to dictatorships. It is true that not everyone in a co-op is completely equal-the leader-follower dynamic is definitely part of human nature-but it is a viable alternative to the top-down owner-employee class structure of capitalist companies. Now you could say that if co-ops participate in the market, that counts as capitalism. That's fine, I'm more interested in ideas than semantics.

[@AngeIDynamite]

IT'S BEEN 1 YEAR FOLKS, AND IT WAS SO WORTH THE WAIT. THIS IS PROLLY ONE OF THE GREATEST ERB'S OF ALL TIME. GREAT REACTION GUYS!

[@sedox3145]

I don't know if you missed them but Ford's Lines about Mass graves and Red flag were fire. Also not cause of communism, but I'm positive Marx took the W based on the costancy of the burns, how hard they were and the delivery

[@XCC23]

The issues with the lines about mass graves and red flags is that they're stones from a fuckin' glass house, because it leads directly into Marx being able to go "bro, Hitler gave you a fucking shoutout in Mein Kampf"

[@sedox3145]

​@@XCC23true. And also I think they missed most of the "Big Brother" line, it's fire on so many levels

[@matityaloran9157]

@@XCC23But that’s also throwing stones from a glass house because Marx also had viciously anti-Semitic ideas. (I’m not defending Ford, he was also an awful person.)

[@XCC23]

@matityaloran9157 there's a difference between being an antisemite (while still defending them to an extent - Europe was generally aggressively antisemitic at the time! Marx was an antisemite, but less so than many of his contemporaries) And being an active collaborator with the nazis.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@XCC23 That’s entirely true.

[@SomasAcademy]

~19:06 Got your facts mixed up, when William the Conqueror arrived in England slavery was indeed legal... and then he took over and abolished it. England re-established chattel slavery in the mid-17th century, when they wanted a cheaper form of labor for the plantations they'd started setting up in their new American colonies and established contact with some non-Christian populations who could do the trick (since it was still illegal to enslave Christians at that time). So, slavery existed in the British Empire for about 200 years, and plantation slavery continued in their empire for about 50 years after the majority of their plantations broke away to become the southern USA. It also seems weird to start the clock on American slavery at the point when the US became independent while tracing Korean slavery back to a time when the Korean peninsula was divided between three Kingdoms, none of which survived through the Early Middle Ages. If you want to be consistent, either Korea (Joseon) had slavery for ~500 years and America had it for ~80, or Korea (The 3 Kingdoms and afterward) had slavery for ~1500 years and America (British colonies and afterwards) had slavery for ~250.

[@matityaloran9157]

14:43, I got to disagree with that one. I think Ford had good attacks at the beginning judging Marx’s ideology by the fruit it bore but after Marx went after Ford for his Nazi sympathies and Ford didn’t respond by bringing up that Marx also viewed Capitalism as a guise for Jewish power, that effectively won Marx the battle

[@MakingUGoOmg]

So while I’ve already commented on others post I want to respond to some claims made directly. Marx wasn’t an idealist, he didn’t have a specified way society should look, and he has made clear he cannot predict the future as such. The goal, then, from him was to give frameworks to analyze the world currently, and in the future. He works both within philosophy and economics to do so, but more the former realistically. To imply he is an “idealist,” in this way, is to say that he would be saying something akin to “the world should look like this!” But he says the opposite, he looks at capitalisms contradictions and acknowledges that like all previous systems capitalism will eventually fall to them (similar to how slave societies fell to their contradictions, and feudal societies fell from theirs). He thought that what would come would be communism, hence his statement that “capitalism is pregnant with communism.” He doesn’t give a very strict definition of communism, mainly that it will be the self-actualization of all people under it. This comes from getting ride of capitalist contradictions (share-holder goals vs workers goals in modern times, etc). To your second statement, Marx wrote about human nature and acknowledged it. It doesn’t align with a Hobbesian notion like humans are ‘x’ negative trait. But that humans have both a general nature and a nature defined by the historical epoch. For capitalism, you see greediness due to resource allocation (namely capital accumulation) being necessary for survival, and on another end that capitalism necessitates the domination of the “other” economically. It makes perfect sense why humans under this system are “greedier.” It makes additionally more sense when we look at anthropological evidence and see that humans in the past (pre-agrarian) didn’t behave like humans under capitalism do. But, there is some non-negative features that all humans share: we can labor freely and purposively from the need of subsistence, we all make our species our object (wrt self-consciousness and awareness of ourselves in relation to humans/humanity), and we all have needs and drives. Hence one of Marx’s largest gripes with capitalism: it inverses our relation to labor, not as something we do freely for our own purpose (to fuel our ends), but something that is done merely for our own existence. This alienates us from our nature, and so on.

[@Jmt1000XD]

I don’t think we watched the same battle. Whatever side you’re on Marx won that by a landslide. Marx and Henry both tied the first round, I could even be convinced that Henry won it. However, after that Marx took over and I’m gonna be honest, if you were antisemitic and sympathetic to Germany during world war 2… you lose the battle outright. Luckily Marx won by pure skill.

[@RenegadesReact]

It’s your opinion that he won. That’s the point of these battles. They’re subjective.

[@Jmt1000XD]

@@RenegadesReact Fair enough. At least we can agree that Ford was at least a terrible father and big racist and Marx was dirty.

[@antythesis751]

​@@RenegadesReact this battle was very useful for sussing out the people who have conservative views. if you watched this and though ford won, you need your head checked. you even said at the end that you knew the comments would disagree with you. you knew you were making the wrong choice haha

[@RenegadesReact]

@@antythesis751 Umm, wut?

[@antythesis751]

@@RenegadesReact I'm saying that I think that you, like many other people that I've seen react to this battle, were so attached to your political leanings that you put on blinders for this battle. Marx won by a landslide

[@MidnightKittehBoi]

the problem is we do live in a capitalist world, you described exactly how capitalism works at the start. also the human nature argument is bust, it is not human nature to act like a capitalist. Humanity is a social species that is how we got to the top.

[@MidnightKittehBoi]

also communism is not government.

[@MidnightKittehBoi]

also for the description i am not made you don't like communism its not knowing what communism actually is and talking about it. Like the USSR was not communist nor was Mao's china. Communists were locked up and killed by Lenin same with Mao. Even worse with Stalin. Also talking about slavery Marx wrote to Lincoln supporting his fight against slavery.

[@matityaloran9157]

19:59, Marx. Ford didn’t have an answer to Marx’s “you supported the Nazis” critique

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

Marx had nothing to rebuttal against the mass grave bar and then he pivots about having capitalists paying the bills even tho Marx was rich and had that safety net.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307 That’s a good point

[@MakingUGoOmg]

⁠@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307he didn’t cause mass graves that was his rebuttal? Also, Marx was for from rich, Engles was rich, and at that not even near the wealthiest just well off.

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

@@MakingUGoOmg He didn’t have a rebuttal for it and just piviots why getting money from capitalists is good while also damming capitalism. It’s like saying “eat the rich” while you’re living in a mansion you bought. He did cause mass graves by painting the rich and people who own companies as evil. If your belief is a certain group of people are objectively evil then what do you think happens? Hitler did it and Stalin did it. Stalin had bigger graves yet he isn’t even half as demonized as Hitler is today.

[@johnjackson9819]

@@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307 "My concepts didn't cause Mass graves, greed did" is not a rebuttal? I'm not even a marx fan but how is he responsible for those deaths?

[@scottb7115]

Both were hitting, but ford kinda fell off the 2nd and 3rd round

[@matityaloran9157]

18:56, to be fair, the UK existed as a country for longer than the US did. You have to adjust for the denominator

[@chimelxatrindad1516]

13:14 they should've put a robocop reference Also extra credits mentioned ford judged his son so badly.

[@taratino4730]

clearly you are politically biased lol or you guys not bright enough to get all references karl marx won that clearly

[@thesaltybeard1793]

I am also politically biased. Karl Marx won. (I'm socialist)

[@MrSpy13011]

After looking at the comment section I don't think we watched the same video as renegades lol.

[@ThatCannibalisticDrone]

So we're gonna ignore the fact Karl Marx absolutely dominated henry ford by mentioning how Hitler mentioned his name in "mein kampf" and the "To your Nazi Factory Across the Pond, frankly hank it's clear Auschwitz side you were on." Henry Ford was anti-Semitic and a Nazi Sympathizer who supported Hitler and built factories in Germany that helped boost Germany's ability to remilitarize. Also, most of henry ford's rapping was just pointing out how much Karl marx stinks, so... for me, i'd give this win to Karl Marx. also no, this isn't me being a communist or anything, this is me just pointing out that you kinda gave a fascist sympathizer a win.

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

Karl Marx and the mass graves due to communism tho and having his bills paid by his rich daddy. Just saying

[@Joxford]

Shit.. I wish Micah was here for this one.

[@selesnyanqueen16]

I think he would've pointed out how hard Marx hit especially in round two and three!

[@Davidofthelost]

Who won? We did for having another EPIC RAP BATTLE OF HISTORY!

[@malcolmthorne9779]

Charlie M won this rap battle. He came back hard. As for the pages of history, he almost but not quite got it right. At least he managed to identify a problem and attempted a solution. As in, upper class and wealthy people will almost always oppress or exploit those "beneath" them. The attempt failed, and rather spectacularily at that, but his heart was in the right place. It's just ironic that most ideologies that spawned from his are just as dangerous as capitalism itself is. Unrestrained, pureform capitalism and communism are ultimately the same, really. The only way capitalism works is if, as with socialism, you splice, hybridize and heavily regulate it. The moment you start to approach capitalism and socialism with more idealism than pragmatism, you're treading dangerous ground. Further irony; both socialism and capitalism are necessary and needed in tandem when building a free, democratic state. And you have to maintain a careful balance between the two. Too much capitalism and you end up in the hellhole that is the US. Which is pretty much an open hunting ground for predatory capitalists. With the citizenry being the prey of choice. Too much socialism and you end up in the hellhole that is Venezuela. Which is an impoverished nation on the brink of utter collapse. Our next great challenge as a civilization is to eliminate both capitalism and communism by making them obsolete in face of a better way. No one's figured it out yet, but we kind of have to. The downsides to both capitalism and communism are nigh incurable, as the ravages of the former will always vindicate the rise and subsequent ravages of the latter.

[@HB-fq9nn]

Who's Charlie M?

[@malcolmthorne9779]

@@HB-fq9nn Marx =P

[@RedeemerofDark]

​@@HB-fq9nnI assume a nickname for Karl Marx

[@RedeemerofDark]

You know...that sounds "anti-blank society construct" when you say we need to make them obsolete...but no that's a very good point. That's the point of making things better is to make the previous "version" obsolete.

[@Samstar369]

Always a blessing to have Renegade react

[@Scrubthulhu]

Literally every criticism you levied towards communism and why it won't work in the "real world" can also be said about capitalism and why it's not working for millions of people today.

[@SomasAcademy]

~4:30 The purest form of Capitalism where anyone and anyone can form a startup and it's just a matter of people investing and producing innovation, on the ground level, if you don't understand history, it should all work perfectly, but unfortunately it doesn't take into account humanity and the history of how humanity has always been. I hate to say it, but there are always going to be advantageous people, even in the perfect society where everybody can pull themselves up by their bootstraps if they just have good enough ideas. There are always going to be people who seek power and seek to shift the board in their favor (weird, I'm having deja vu). It's nice to imagine some divide between this ideal form of Capitalism that once existed and what we have now, but there is no line; the state of the modern economy isn't "corporatism" (that's actually the name of a distinct economic model), it's what inevitably happens in a Capitalist economy if you don't have an outside force constraining the Capitalists with things like anti-monopoly laws, which makes it less Capitalist, not more Capitalist. Pure Capitalism is when everyone who has money and resources to invest, or "Capital" (that's why it's called Capitalism), is able to invest that Capital into creating a startup, and whomever does it the best thrives, while everybody else either falls by the wayside, goes to work for whoever did it the best, or finds something else to devote their time to (weird, deja vu again). That's what's happened; the people who did it the best are thriving, and everybody else falls by the wayside, gets bought out by the companies that are thriving, or finds a new niche. New startups can't compete because old startups have achieved the success that comes with being the best, and now command enough power to outcompete or absorb any lesser companies. That kind of growth is the goal of Capitalism, the big corporations are just winning at it. Now, it's absolutely fine if you think a system where the state steps in to confine Capitalist growth or break up the most successful Capitalist corporations so that it's easier for startups to avoid falling by the wayside, but that's not more Capitalist, that's something outside of Capitalism infringing on the natural course of the market to achieve your preferred balance. I'll also note that worker-owned businesses (called Worker Co-ops) are actually quite a bit more stable than traditional businesses, and don't usually see that kind of hypothetical scenario of some group of people within the company snatching up a bigger portion of the pie than the other workers accept; the main reason there aren't more of them is because banks are less likely to give loans to co-op startups than to traditional startups. So they have all the usual difficulties associated with establishing a startup, plus a higher overhead cost since the workers need to raise all the capital they need without their own business. The system actually is rigged against them.

[@matityaloran9157]

12:11, that was Marx’s best line in the rap battle. Maybe if Ford confronted Marx with the fact that Marx promoted several of the same anti-Jewish conspiracy theories that Hitler later do and is being hypocritical in condemning Ford’s antisemitism Ford could have staked out a victory, but as he doesn’t, I think Marx won with this line.

[@archangelgrel]

My man with glasses needs to speak up lol. He's mumbling over there

[@matityaloran9157]

19:15, 2023- 1066 = 957. 2023 - 1776 = 247. 800 out of 957 = about 84 % of British history. 150 years of American slavery divided by 247 years of American existence equals about 58 % of American history. That actually is a significantly smaller percentage

[@matityaloran9157]

12:40, incidentally, that’s historically accurate. Marx was a complete slob.

[@NicStryker1027]

Marx destroyed him.

[@ricotheskunk3062]

11:09 reaction starts here.

[@casbarrod1093]

The beats in this rap battle was sick did not skip a beat great

[@AngeIDynamite]

It's been 11 minutes until the reaction lol 🤣

[@QuadZillaGodZillasbrother]

A lot of people say that Socialism was a victim of greed when in fact, Socialism denied that greed even existed, which left it vulnerable to greed. And the funny part about that is is that capitalism also does the exact same thing it denies that greed exists leading to corruption both ideologies have their strengths and weaknesses mixed economy is the way to go. Somethings need to stay the same and somethings need to change. It’s not black and white. And by the way, who do I think won well I think Henry Ford won this battle. His first verse was fucking brutal. His second verse was pretty decent and his third verse was good marks didn’t really have a strong start. His second verse was pretty decent and then his third verse was really dope but it wasn’t enough I think.

[@zyvernious]

Believe or not Nate one of the largest worker co-op is Ocean Spray

[@ajgodzillastyles2461]

easy won by Karl Marx

[@endruler8625]

See, my issue with Marx’s first verse is the “My concepts didn’t cause mass graves, greed did,” line. Because greed is the main thing that keeps communism from working the way it’s intended, so he basically shot himself in the foot there. And the “shot them dead in the street” isn’t exactly true either, as Ford didn’t send anyone to shoot those workers, the police force trying to stop them did. So while many people lean onto Marx as the winner, I just don’t see it. He had some great bars, don’t get me wrong. He just didn’t have his facts straight, which causes me to give Ford the win

[@annoyingneighbour1917]

9:00 "until the end of time". If you mean Marx thought that Communism (the stage after Socialism) would be the final stage of humanity, then it's incorrect. Dialectical Materialism (one of the most important Building block of Marxist philosophy) clearly states that everything, society, nature, people etc are in constant development and never stops. Marx didn't think past Communism since it's so far away it's hard, if not impossible to analyse how Communism would eventually collapse and transform into a new mode of production. If you ment that workers would get 100% of their surplus value until the end of time, then the answer is kind of. Socialism (the stage between Capitalism and Communism) will still have social classes only differenceis the Proletariatis is in charge instead of the bourgeoisie. When social classes wither away, then concepts like the state, money, police wither away with it. And that's Communism, classless, stateless, moneyless etc. Under this stage people will work according to ability and receives according to need, so "technically" they get their surplus value but not in forms of money or labor vouchers.

[@panzerwolf494]

I think you guys are getting things mixed up here. Democracy is not capitalism the same as dictatorships are not communism. As Marx stated in the video "My concepts didn't cause mass graves, greed did." Stalin and Mao were power hungry dictators focused on themselves, not the country. The same as some politicians and corporate CEOs in the US are focused on power and themselves, not the country. And if you look back in US history, it's not hard to find mass murder, some of which was in the millions, either, and some of which was specifically driven by capitalism (think pre FDA and EPA or OSHA for example). But no one seems to blame capitalism from any of it like they do communism/socialism for the acts of dictators

[@nzstump0152]

every free country on the planet is a socialist democracy, mixed with either commuinism or capitalism as ideals that preset the society. America is a Capitalist Democracy that allows the population to vote but the Oligarchy control what options they can choose from, Very few politions in american history were elected without severe amounts of financial backing from one or multiple rich and powerful interests.

[@rooky3526]

You can easily tell that these guys are not well versed on how actual rap battles ebb and flow. Karl literally rebutted everything Ford said and then some.

[@alexanderandersson4093]

Karl won easy

[@Imperius146]

Remember when they did one a week or so. Now it’s once a year

[@mega-chad8809]

Henry ford won the first half, but Karl won the last half

[@DHehsgssisi77]

Forward to 11:16 for the rap

[@thehollowking]

4:44 It is corporatocracy

[@themessenger1871]

Im gonna try to say this the best way i can: Capitalism is good. Its the synical ways people do to bend the system to their favor & causes unbalance that effects everyone in a bad way. Checks & balances should be enforced so there's more opportunity for people & lower tier companies to branch out under the rule of law.

[@Cosmos6745]

Found On Road Dead

[@maxsthoughts6204]

“It doesn’t take into account humanity” oh boy lol the laziest critique of Marx right out of the gate

[@ashryan2508]

Not quite as lazy as Marx's lame appropriation of Hegel's historical dialectic, though.

[@Nyx_2142]

Nobody watches these dudes for well educated or reasoned takes in general, let alone on nuanced subjects. Their entire discussion is what I've come to expect out of people that skim wiki articles for "research."

[@matityaloran9157]

It advocates for killing off the bourgeoisie and seizing their wealth to give it to the proletariat which is a fundamentally reprehensible and evil doctrine. It calls for “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need” without explaining how either ability or need are supposed to be measured. It doesn’t provide any mechanism to prevent the kind of strawman capitalist Rousseau described from stealing from the commons and tricking everyone else into believing it is rightfully his. It posits that people are more divided by socioeconomic class than by nationality even though in reality that’s often not the case. It denies the utility of philanthropy and denounced efforts at reform within the capitalist system (despite acknowledging it as an improvement over feudalism.) It defended the Paris Commune despite its violent persecution of religious followers and clergy. That’s all from Marx’s (and Engels) actual claims and ideas even if we ignore the fact that everyone who ever established a regime inspired by Marx’s work (without exception) ended up as a horrible dictator.

[@MakingUGoOmg]

⁠@@ashryan2508riiiight, Hegel didn’t get the dialectic from Fichte? Did you read Marx? Hegels historical dialectic is idealist by definition, Marx was a historical materialist. This would be like saying Schielling ripped off Kant, or Hegel ripped off Fichte. Marx was included by both Hegel, but ultimately Marx’s philosophy was a critique of Hegels, not some lazy attempt to rip it off. Also, Marx wrote a lot more both philosophically and economically than just his dialectic. He’s literally the most influential political philosopher of all time for a reason, with more interesting things to say than Hegel imo. Also, Marx was right, which helps.

[@Blaiswing246]

Marx got this for me😊

[@nintendofan1749]

Both were good But Karl takes it, his hits were harder than Ford’s

[@zaurmagomedov5181]

Маркс был материалистов, это противоположное идеализму течение философии

[@twilight_lupinesilva4691]

First. I was just looking to see if they had uploaded the reaction yet.

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

Karl Marx was a rich boy tho! Karl was begging his daddy for money so his whole spiel about rich being evil or some shit, yet he had a safety net to go back to while the workers didn’t.

[@thesaltybeard1793]

Karl Marx never preached being rich as evil. Ignorant.

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

@@thesaltybeard1793 Not denying he was rich himself, huh? Workers could get fired but he had nothing to lose.

[@thesaltybeard1793]

@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307 I don't care? If he was so rich himself why he need to rely on engels?

[@GunthersLoyalSoldier1307]

@@thesaltybeard1793 You don’t care that Marx was preaching about rich people giving their fair share yet he himself was rich and most likely didn’t give his fair share? You one of Hasan’s fans, huh? Also considering how Marx’s father wrote a letter to his son after being begged for money again, he hated what his son has become so I wouldn’t be surprised if his dad cut him off. Just like a lot of spoiled rich kids, their parents cut them off eventually. Been seeing a lot of rich commies who don’t put their money where their mouth is and it looks like Marx would’ve fit in just fine with them.

[@ZBunney]

19:35 lol yea, one of those places where slavery is still legal is the US of A... Greatest country in the world, yee haw!!!

[@RenegadesReact]

How so?

[@ZBunney]

@@RenegadesReact the prison industrial complex perhaps?

[@RenegadesReact]

@@ZBunney Ah yes. I’ve heard this one. I will say that the Prison Industrial Complex is most certainly an abhorrent system that gives the U.S. government, and select private owners of certain prisons, access to cheap labor. Now notice I said cheap, not free. Because prisoners are payed, albeit paltry, amounts of income for labor worked. Due to this, you cannot officially say that it is slavery. Although it is the closest thing to and I think it is a system that is in dire need of reform.

[@thesaltybeard1793]

​@@RenegadesReactthey...don't have a fucking choice man. It's not optional work lmao.

[@UNION_JACK_THE_RIPPER]

i feel like i shouldve been in this lol

[@zaurmagomedov5181]

получается в сша диктатура?

[@kmac3012]

Guy on the left looks and sounds like Ted Cruz

[@RenegadesReact]

Ted Cruz f***in wishes he looked as good as me.

[@mrsneedy1034]

Russianbadger

[@highvoltage7797]

So Your patting Yourself on the back for having less slavery?

[@RenegadesReact]

No. Just stating facts. Slavery will always be an atrocity.

[@silentprotagonist8954]

@@RenegadesReact Exactly. You were right about these comments being so critical.

[@wingedparagon4448]

Marx's third verse was great. But it was an uphill fight after Fords first and I don't think it was enough. To use boxing as a analogy, Ford hit a heymaker out of the gate and while Marx got a few good body shots and a good blow at the end, it was not enough to come back from that.

[@thesaltybeard1793]

Most of what Ford said after first verse was "ew you're smelly". Meanwhile Marx basically rebutted everything that was thrown at him and also illustrated how Ford was a literal monster and a freak. He tore Ford apart.

[@silentprotagonist8954]

I agree with what you guys said. While socialism may seem idealistic to some, capitalism has had the better history and effects.

[@thesaltybeard1793]

Capitalism has killed countless people and left more to live in squalor.

[@andrewvice832]

do piemations meet the amazing team (full series) and Do vanossgaming powerwash simulator the forbidden spongebob episode

[@matthewelliott7294]

34🍺

[@matityaloran9157]

13:37, the Communist vision also includes “from each according to his ability” but it doesn’t seem that Marx was contributing to the greatest extent that he could have and even if he were, Marx also denounced rich philanthropy so Engels voluntarily sharing his money while remaining rich isn’t really the Communist vision.

[@TexanNative]

Corporatism isn’t corporatocracy.

[@dastemplar9681]

Karl Marx, the perfect example of a “philosopher” who thinks he doesn’t need to include basic human nature into his “philosophy”.

[@TheAngryXenite]

Karl Marx didn't "ignore" human nature, he dismissed it. According to him, what we call human nature is in fact something imparted upon us by the society we live in, rather than an inherent part of our species we need to work around. He detested arguments invoking it because he saw them as inherently beholden to the interests of the powerful, who needed people to accept the way things were run as essential and innate rather than something that could be replaced. Now, do I agree with this radical idea? Not... really. I think Marx went too far in the other direction by saying that human beings could adopt any sort of societal framework and it would live or die based purely on its own merits rather than any sort of incompatibility with humanity. We have a nature, and it reasserts itself in every system we implement, but how it does so is extremely fluid and it can be bent to our needs.

[@matityaloran9157]

@anguschandler4482”Workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains” is not a prediction of the end of Capitalism, it’s a call to action.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@TheAngryXeniteOddly enough, that’s a similar idea to Michel Foucault (who despite his membership in Communist political parties was heavily critical of Marx.) According to Foucault anything that we think is “natural” including supposed human nature is simply a manifestation of the underlying assumptions of society which are ultimately based on the exploitation of the powerless at the hands of the powerful.

[@MakingUGoOmg]

⁠​⁠@@TheAngryXeniteI want to correct this because it’s not necessarily true. Marx didn’t think human nature (Gattungswesen) was to be dismissed. In fact he wrote extensively about it. Marx on one hand does think that society can influence our nature in a kind of “human nature by Epoche” way. But we also have a general human nature. In fact this is directly where he talks about humans needs and drives, so he takes that into account as well. I could add more if you’d like and explain all elements of what he thinks of human nature. But the TL;Dr is that we can labor independent to our need for subsistence; we are free producers of our environment and within accord to the laws of beauty. Also, David Leopold has a good book on this topic about young Marx and actualization that touches on this in more depth, it’s worth the read.

[@thesaltybeard1793]

What about human nature means democracy in the work place is incompatible?

[@InquisitorXarius]

Henry Ford and Karl Marx, two persons who I really, really, really hate. A Monopolist and a Communist, my loathing has no limits.

[@tophatgaming1873]

both had good intentions

[@dastemplar9681]

@@tophatgaming1873Good intention can still lead to more dead bodies

[@brothersgt.grauwolff6716]

​@dastemplar9681 , the road to Hell as they say is paved with Good Intentions

[@matityaloran9157]

@@tophatgaming1873No, they didn’t. Henry Ford hated Jews and wanted to be rich. Karl Marx hated the Jews and the rich.

[@thesaltybeard1793]

​@tophatgaming1873 Ford had good intentions when he had protestors shot? When he spied on his workers? When he used his son as a puppet because his own image had taken a hit and led to so much stress that he fucking died from it?

[@CheezeN7]

Definitely Ford. Capitalism 😤😤😤

[@Anarcko_The_Anarchist]

Not even going into how ford was pro nazi? Damn american education must really be on a decline

[@broman3364]

Henry Ford won this for me. Sure there were burns on both sides. But honestly when you look at one that helps build people and give people a life then looking at the other were one's ideology is what lead to millions of people dying by his false words. I would chose the former then the latter.

[@Anarcko_The_Anarchist]

Yes his beliefs did cause millions but you can say the exact same thing about capitalism with millions starving in say africa for example, not to mention marx talks about how ford comtrolled his workers like im talking 1984 big brother INGSOC, he would have people visit houses unexpected including wives, you couldnt drink or gamble stuff like that and then we go into how ford sabotaged his own son, his son became so stressed from his antics he died from cancer and also you ignored the whole nazi thing here which is beyond self explanitory, fords only things that werent rebuttled was you smell and your dick has boils

[@thesaltybeard1793]

It literally didn't. But hey go off I guess.