HERACLITUS, seen through the eyes of NIETZSCHE (Nietzsche podcast - Episode five)

[@geraldturner4770]

“People ought to fight to keep their law as to defend the citys walls.” ― Heraclitus, Fragments

[@christinalolini9060]

This is precious. I am writing my dissertation on Heraclitus and want to incorporate fresher perceptions of his work (Heidegger, Nietzsche and Poststructuralists) and your lecture is so resourceful and inspiring!

[@untimelyreflections]

Thank you very much for the kind words. Engaging philosophical texts is one of the great joys of life. I'm always glad whenever I'm of help to someone in that endeavor in any way.

[@radniksatrake3793]

Hi i am doing it also... Can you tell me books you are reading

[@markoslavicek]

Which poststructuralist commented on Heraclitus and could you recommend something to read in that regard?

[@GazRatcliff]

@@untimelyreflectionsq

[@David-h4z8w]

Fresher perceptions dont mean shit in philosophy. It just means tgey couldnt answer the fundamental questions, dismissed the mysteries and came up with a new idea that is equally unanswerable.

[@gingerbreadzak]

HERACLITUS, seen through the eyes of NIETZSCHE (Nietzsche podcast - Episode five) 00:02 📜 Nietzsche gave a private lecture to a single student, Ludwig von Scheffler, on pre-Platonic philosophy, particularly Heraclitus, showing his enthusiasm for the classics. 03:26 🧠 Nietzsche had a great affection for Heraclitus, devoting 22 pages to him in his lectures, more than any other pre-Platonic philosopher. 05:54 🌍 Nietzsche argued that the emergence of philosophy in ancient Greece coincided with a shift towards materialism and marked the beginning of a movement toward nihilism. 09:55 🔍 Nietzsche classified Socrates as a pre-Platonic philosopher, emphasizing the individuality and uniqueness of these early philosophers. 13:38 🌟 Nietzsche saw the pre-Platonics as pioneers who had to define philosophy for themselves, paving the way for future philosophical development. 18:57 📚 Nietzsche regarded the pre-Platonics as genuine discoverers, each creating their own philosophical foundations, unlike Plato, whom he considered a mixed type. 21:53 🌌 Nietzsche believed that materialism emerged in ancient Greece as philosophers questioned the contradictions of dualism and personification, leading to the rise of philosophy. 23:12 🧪 The scientific method provides facts and discoveries but cannot provide ultimate explanations for phenomena. 24:15 🌌 Natural philosophers in history, like pre-Platonic thinkers, engaged in physics and metaphysics to interpret the world's processes and nature. 28:06 🪙 Pre-Platonic philosophers, including Thales and Democritus, sought to describe the nature of matter, with Democritus proposing that everything is made of atoms. 35:11 🔥 Heraclitus believed that everything in the world is a transformation or manifestation of fire, emphasizing the constant change and flux in the universe. 39:50 🤔 Nietzsche saw a kinship with Heraclitus in their shared solitude and the belief in seeking truth within oneself rather than relying on external authorities. 45:35 🧠 Having faith in one's intuition is a fundamental aspect of the truth-seeking process in philosophy, as exemplified by Heraclitus. 46:32 🤔 Heraclitus took pride in intuitive understanding of truth rather than logical knowledge, and he viewed himself as an inspired, solitary figure. 47:26 🔍 Heraclitus emphasized the concept of "logos," similar to the Dao in Chinese philosophy, representing a higher-order reason governing nature. 51:03 🧙‍♂ Heraclitus criticized religious rituals, other philosophers, and religious practitioners for their lack of true wisdom and insight. 54:25 🌍 Heraclitus rejected the notion of "being" and embraced "becoming" and constant change as the essence of the world, leading to the idea that opposites are interrelated. 57:53 🔄 Heraclitus introduced the idea of the world as an ever-changing, eternal transformation, challenging traditional metaphysical concepts. 01:00:14 💡 Heraclitus used the metaphor of a river to illustrate that everything is in constant motion, and identity is defined by change rather than permanence. 01:04:06 🌟 Heraclitus blurred the distinction between the true world and the world of representation by emphasizing that the nature of being itself is change and transformation. 01:08:48 🌟 Heraclitus believed that strife, conflict, and change are fundamental to the nature of reality, and this idea influenced Nietzsche's concept of the will to power. 01:09:41 💥 Heraclitus viewed the world as a place of constant struggle and conflict, where phenomena are in constant battle, and some overpower others. 01:11:49 🧩 Nietzsche's concept of the "will to power" was influenced by Heraclitus, as it reflects the idea that beings without power seek it out and beings with power overcome those without. 01:12:43 🔄 Heraclitus believed in becoming over being and saw conflict as the driving force. Nietzsche resonated with this idea, seeing it as an answer to thousands of years of arguments about the nature of existence. 01:13:16 🎭 Heraclitus's philosophy is fundamentally artistic and aesthetic, embracing the idea of a child at play, which influenced Nietzsche's quest to justify the world in an aesthetic manner. 01:15:47 🎨 Heraclitus's view of the world as purely aesthetic, like a child at play, challenged traditional moral explanations of existence, aligning with Nietzsche's later ideas. 01:16:42 🎨 Heraclitus's philosophical approach is more artistic and intuitive than argumentative, opening the way for artistic philosophy and influencing Nietzsche's creative philosophizing.

[@zenden6564]

Wonderful reading with ruminations. Your vocal pacing, clarity and modulation are very appealing. I am very grateful to be able to listen to you sir. Now i had a Greek maths teacher a million years ago, Mr.Antipas and hearing of these earliest Greek philosophers "being each hewn from their own unique stone". Mr.Antipas was indeed a man like that, a man from another world and utterly different. I'd never realized (until now) how deep and wonderful where his the roots as he truly enchanted us ignoramus's with incredible Pythagoras, in that little dusty country town in Australia. Thank you Mr Keegan. ❤

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

The Socratic doubting, the “i know that I do not know,” is a way to being open to what may be the case. This or is akin to Edmund husserl’s epoche, or bracketing off any preconceptions, metaphysics, axioms, i.e. suspending judgement or biases.

[@VisibleTrouble]

I will be commenting on every one from now on, man. I've listened to your golden smog for a couple years now - many man... Really appreciate the thoughtful work.

[@Over-Boy42]

Excellent! Heraclitus was right indeed about him being fire!

[@BigBunnyLove]

I found your discussion very good. I really am fascinated by Heraclitus. Thanks for the work.

[@SheldonRokeach-gr7pg]

nietzsche and heraclitus versus plato and parmenidies

[@auggiemarsh8682]

Some of the most superb lectures on KZbin

[@anthonycarnley2202]

I do appreciate your work, I"m getting old and I"m glad young people ssssstill have a mind.

[@Impaled_Onion-thatsmine]

I'm outta here to the bypass in metaphysics in ancient philosophy everything made of basic elements like captain planet

[@BarquitodeVapor]

beatifull narration, thanks a lot!

[@anthonycarnley2202]

I learned all this stuff back in the 70s.

[@skalitstudio2208]

And thanks to podcasts like this one, knowledge lives on.

[@Ayerzivtre]

No one gives a fuck bitch

[@afk2514]

Nietzsche = half Heraclitus reincarnated, half Dionysus.😅

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

At around 58:00. If nothing really is, because all changes then it seems that Heraclitus was stuck in empiricism. But idk. So far this part of the video reminds me of the Theatetus, where Socrates and Theatetus try to find out what knowledge if there is no such thing as the “self-existent.” Where I take the self-existent to be the absolute, Being, and independent. So, if there is no self-existent entity, an entity that exist by itself independent of other, then what follows is that what “is” would be dependent, relative, and or contextual. So what anything is would be the result of a relationship. An example I recall with be that sweetness is not in the honey and it is not in the tongue, but is the result of the union of honey and tongue. I think the Theatetus depicts the process metaphysics of Alfred north white head and Alan watts. All interesting stuff.

[@innosanto]

According to philosophy now, Hersclitus was an empiricist, Parmenides was the opposite, and Democritus was both.

[@luisclaudiodaltro4064]

Great. Love from brazil🎉

[@untimelyreflections]

Thank you! 😃

[@untimelyreflections]

I’m doing a whole series on the Pre-Platonics right now

[@MacSmithVideo]

I loved this book. A must read Nietzsche text.

[@MrJamesdryable]

There is nothing either good nor bad, but thinking makes it so. - Shakespeare

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

_the body was made as a limit on love; this, the ego's home. What it's eyes see are never real; the mind makes it so, and (so says George Kelly) bases it's interpretation/ opinion on what the meaning of it is -- does the ego, standing apart from everything else -- on how it expects its own future to be; others say only the past. But never now. You will recall mathematical physicists realize there is enough energy in the vacuum of space contained in the teacup to boil all of the oceans of our world. The point I am making is that the meaning is given by that part of the mind which stands antiseptically apart from the phenomena it observes; everyone is a Cartesian scientist. Is this wisdom? Plato suggests the most one can have is a true opinion with an account. In short, the world has no meaning at all. It's aim changes every 10 minutes. Where then, ask you, does meaning come from? And how did you lose it? Look within for the answer. It does not change. Still, it is there. Do not satisfy yourself with speculation. What you seek is A DIRECT EXPERIENCE. Knowledge (Nous) is eternal and does not change. The world changes. You are not in it at all. At no point does is the world real. This is your choice. So be it._ _have you ever seen a photograph taken of the starry Heaven above, centered up on Polaris, the North Star? Picture a moving picture, where the lens has been left open for a time. A time long enough to display every other star in the visible heavens circling 'round this one center point. (Plato called this the circle of the same THE Primary Motion. My friend, every person has a North Star. But the ego must be silenced in order to locate it. The way forward is backwards, the way backwards is forward. You remember. You remember. In a world of dreams, it is the dream of awakening from the dream. The one that transcends all others._ _Adonai_ I thank you for letting me speak; off color as it may appear.

[@BigBunnyLove]

That’s pure stoicism btw.

[@drgordo112]

I'm making my way through the entire podcast. The videos are inspiring!

[@MaryLee-k6t]

Thank you...

[@kostas3031]

Well done!

[@longcastle4863]

Superb. Thank you.

[@samuel_lament_of_hathor]

Excellent!!!

[@Phishiesmels]

Wow, An entropic epic ! Thank you from the shallows of the abyss. Now, I may cast my anchor upon the rippled seabed of time.

[@jennywang3711]

You have a handsome voice, sir

[@cheri238]

Heraclitus (fl. 500 B.C.E.) Table of Contents 1. The Life and Times 2 Theory of Knowledge 3. The Doctrine of Flux and the Unity of Opposites. 4.Critisims of Ionian Philosophy 5. Physical Theroy 6. Moral and Political Theory. 7.Accompishments & Influence 8. References & Further Reading We know nothing by his own life, except he was born on the Ionionian Coast of Asia Minor, the birthplace of Philosophy. We only know now what was gleamed from his own statements. I have more studying to do on him. He claims (logos) according to which all things are one in one sense. Opposites are necessary for life, but they are unified in a field of balanced exchanges. The world consists of- a law-like- interchange of elements by fire. Thus, the world is not identified with any particular substance but an ongoing law of change. The understanding of law itself. Heraclitus is the first to go beyond physical theory in search of metaphysical and moral applications. I have to get this book by Kahn, 1979. Thank you again, I have a lot catching up to do.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Thought provoking and an to inspiration further research. Why IS there Something rather than Nothing. ? We've come full circle it seems ?! Ah !....there's the real mystery...

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

without even knowing of Heraclitus's observations..I came to similar conclusions about the world. If truth is TRUTH via observation and logos we should all come to the same conclusion...

[@Harrow_]

Could the beginning of the idealistic Platonic mode of thinking be traced back to the death of Socrates and his renunciation of this world with the call to Asclepius, where his departure from the world of the living signals his treatment from the sickness called life?

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

".. War is the Father of All .." -Herakleitos [On Nature F.H] «.. Πόλεμος πάντων μεν πατήρ εστί ..» -Ἡράκλειτος [Περί Φύσεως F.Η]

[@paradamaparusha8694]

Thanks.

[@exlauslegale8534]

31:10 Just like Deleuze and Guattari defined philosophy: the creation of concepts.

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

I need to buy Heraclitus’s writings.

[@untimelyreflections]

You can find them for free online via project gutenberg or I think even wikisource.

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

@@untimelyreflections thanks

[@Havre_Chithra]

Damn! I feel a kinship to this. I have been reading Greek mythology and the bible (things I didn't grow up with) and using the images and ideas in there to investigate and express Logos. And I have been telling people that true Reason and Wisdom, everything that we say makes sense.... It comes from a place fundamentally nonsensical... From myth (nonsense) we get wisdom (sense)... This is philosophy.

[@davidthurman3963]

He was absolutely correct. I don't know if he realized the Plato texts are written by many over time, exactly like the new testament. In Plato we have a character Socrates who never writes. In the new testament the main character jesus never writes. So placing Socrates in the pre platonic traditions in fact correct. That would Align jesus to an earlier time in history as well. And well Justin martyr said exactly as much in calling Heraclitus a Christian. Which in normal reasoning actually makes zero sense. But normal reasoning has nothing to do with much of this.

[@christopherellis2663]

It is what it is. It is because it is? Does the water flowing from the spring exist only from that moment? No! It flows through the ground into the open air, just as all matter flows through space-time, ir simply, one segment of matter to another, changing only its apparent form.

[@JessicaCristenPruitt]

How do I cite this podcast?

[@mkmani9033]

Simply Beatiful

[@Laotzu.Goldbug]

Any chance to get a list of sources/quotes you use in your episodes?

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

12:37 what society would produce a philosopher? Ha, maybe a society hell bent of sophism, because it does seem that Plato’s dialogue are always putting Socrates against the post modern, relativistic sophist. In the Theatetus, he even refers to them as the “ thoroughbred sophist,”. LOL.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

Through Nietzsche's eyes, so Heraclitus that is all Panta Rhei and no Logos.

[@untimelyreflections]

The Logos is Becoming, so identity emerges out of flux rather than substance. To suggest otherwise would be to say that Heraclitus’ ideas are inherently self-contradictory, rather than tackling their full breadth.

[@matsulrich7765]

53:56

[@Havre_Chithra]

Where can I find this lecture?

[@eric.aaron.castro]

Can you do Plato’s Gorgias and Nietzsche?

[@coleride]

what "book" are you discussing?

[@untimelyreflections]

www.amazon.com/Pre-Platonic-Philosophers-International-Nietzsche-Studies/dp/0252074033/ref=asc_df_0252074033/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312021238077&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=37128299628424251&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1026201&hvtargid=pla-491444939720&psc=1

[@coleride]

@@untimelyreflections TY

[@christallaktorides6904]

I have actually been in same situation as being the only person to show up for the lecture and tutorial Why bother? Because Of wanting to learn whether it’s one person or 101- it does not matter

[@eldoradose]

The thing is that for Greeks earth, water, air, fire, or matter are not concepts but the principles. From age of Renaissance people started to perceive matter or natural elements as empirical substances. For Greeks substance is nothing empirical, the same with matter. Democritus atoms are not the same atoms our modern phisics recognise. You can understand a concept but for the principle you must also agree, so this means that either you feel the same way or you understand the methodology. Philosophy in modern sense starts from Descrates because he pointed on the method, before philosophy was more like an art and Greeks not only thought about the world but also felt everything. Feeling is not intuition and not wisdom - you become to be, water is not becoming, water is.

[@ifetheophilusigunnubole5366]

So enjoyable

[@SatSingh-mm4gg]

"Socrates was putely philosophic?" Claims tequire evidence

[@christopherellis2663]

Congratulations for ark bark, dark....park quark, stark, &c.

[@innosanto]

He does not say it made from fire, but from an eternal fire, meaning an eternal spark, event, process, energy. I wouldnt take “this eternal fire” as meaning that fire is the material.

[@samuelinauen1038]

Thanks again for your effort in bringing this valuable information to the people! In which book of Nietzsche can I find the text (or the 22 pages) on heraclitus? So Plato was the first out of the greek philosophers to explain our material (experienceable) world as a product of the demiurge? (so we can say he is the forerunner of the thought, that our material bodies are "evil" and only our spirits are godly, which was then the basis for gnosticism and christianity in general?) And Aristoteles/Aristotle (altough student of Plato), was then the first to try to explain the physical world with physical (scientific) laws governing it? (but he still had a metaphysical view of our world?) So the first one's, who didn't need to rely on a metaphysical explanation underlying our physical world were Lange & Nietzsche?

[@untimelyreflections]

Gregory Whitlock’s Nietzsche on the Pre-Platonic Philosophers

[@cheri238]

​@@untimelyreflections I have it. Thank you.

[@PeterIntrovert]

WOW I didn't expect such high quality lecture. 🤌 I learned a lot and get inspired. Thank you a lot. 🙏 I can relate to Heraclian way of being/thinking. 😎

[@markoslavicek]

The relationship between these two philosophers is fascinating, but how do we reconcile Nietzsche's disdain for dialectics and the fact that Heraclitus is considered a proto-dialectitian?

[@dylansmith9475]

I think Nietzsche means the type of Socratic dialogue and argument when he says dialectics as opposed to the materialist dialectics

[@markoslavicek]

@@dylansmith9475 Good point.

[@edieremia9464]

@@dylansmith9475not only

[@ralphricart3177]

I completely agree. You will get nothing from backdrop people.

[@anhumblemessengerofthelawo3858]

_Ra: I am Ra. For many of your centuries, both the Confederation and the Orion Confederation busied themselves with each other upon planes above your own, shall we say, planes in time/space whereby machinations were conceived and the armor of light girded on. Battles have been and are continuing to be fought upon these levels._ _Upon the Earth plane, energies had been set in motion which did not cause a great deal of call. There were isolated instances of callings, one such taking place beginning approximately two six zero zero [2,600] of your years in the past in what you would call GREECE at this time and resulting in writings and understandings of some facets of the Law of One. We especially note the one known as THALES and the one known as HERACLITUS, those being of the philosopher career, as you may call it, teaching their students. We also point out the understandings of the one known as PERICLES._ _At this time there was a limited amount of visionary information which the Confederation was allowed to telepathically impress. However, for the most part, during this time empires died and rose according to the attitudes and energies set in motion long ago, not resulting in strong polarization but rather in that mixture of the positive and the warlike or negative which has been characteristic of this final minor cycle of your beingness."_ ~*~ _"Your own nature is water in that you as mind/body/spirit complexes are easily impressed and moved. Indeed, this is the very fiber and nature of your journey and vigil in this density: to not only be moved but to instruct yourself as to the preferred manner of your movement in mind, body, and spirit."_ *Ra Material (1981)*

[@johnking6252]

Give it a name and they will come ? But, but but your black! 🖤

[@anthonycarnley2202]

I believe the only thing that is permanent is impermanence.

[@brucebirch2790]

Cool

[@leststoner]

🎠

[@operationblubeam]

he seemed like an arrogant asshole. also a totally lolz moment was the part where he sat there completely dismissive of his fellow man , saying "dont they know everything is fire?" 🤣🤣🤣

[@foolyanr.1]

I dont know. Philosophy seems to me to be Just a big Blabla with the exception of some quotes... But Anyways your speech is very good performed and even the Abstract thought are interesting in a way.

[@Charlie-Em]

I love this video but I don't want to like it cause it has 666 likes on it and I don't want to be the one that fucked that up, even though this has nothing to do with the Christians or their myths.

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

Is this black pigeon speaks?

[@untimelyreflections]

Nope.

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

@@untimelyreflections the voice sounds similar to my ear

[@its_saam9459]

@@tatsumakisempyukaku omg I can't unhear it anymore. Ffs haha!

[@tatsumakisempyukaku]

@@its_saam9459 I immediately thought it was black pigeon when I first heard this. Lol

[@MrChucke711]

When a tree falls in the Nietzsche forest only Karl Marx plants a new seed, the ancients watch in silence.

[@untimelyreflections]

I have no idea why but this made me laugh out loud

[@PinoSantilli-hp5qq]

NO don't be Vague!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Knowledge is NOT Vague!

[@johnking6252]

Wrong I am's what I am's P. circa 1936. ❓

[@ahmedmahmud4238]

The Scientific Method was first codified in Medieval Europe, not Aristotle. Aristotle did not do experiments. Aristotle primarily used deduction not induction. Its a very well known fact. The Scientific Method was first codified in Medieval Europe.

[@ahmedmahmud4238]

Thales 😂 never made "Scientific" discoveries 😂. Thales postulated "Materialistic" theories about the world, never proved them nor did he do any experiments. 😂

[@SlickDissident]

Æon (Thoth deck's derivative of "Judgement" in RW decks) DOB: J6... I call him 🦬Q-Baccas. Be-hold the lost♈️ sign in the hand of his mosaic on Wekeepidea... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aion_(deity)

[@albertakesson3164]

It always hits me, that anglophones like to prenounce *Plátōn* (Πλάτων) as "Plado", or even more like _playdough._ Guess English has deeper roots in Latin and not Greek. en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Platon