Here's 10 of Beast Machine's Biggest Writing Flaws (That Aren't Characterization)

[@XenotHedgehog]

If you recall, Waspinator did have a throwaway line that could be attributed to his saving Blackarachnia: "Besides, chicks dig brooding loner bit." It's not a good explanation, but I think it was meant for that purpose.

[@thomasmorgan9768]

Honestly, given what they did to Silverbolt, I think it was actually foreshadowing.

[@zoltanperei4789]

Taking over Cybertron with a virus is so simple and effective so honestly i don't understand why did nobody think of that before Megs.

[@kamenrider5ds60]

I know this idea was thought of after it but After or during 2006 botcon they hinted that BW Megs never made the virus, just stole it from the one who sent him and his Darksyde crew to steal the golden disc, Cryotek. Now whether its canon or not idk but it would make sense that Megs just took something and used it on its creator rather than make something that effective from scratch.

[@OptimusPhillip]

​@@kamenrider5ds60But if Cryotek had this virus and wanted to take over Cybertron, why didn't he just use it? And if Megatron had access to this virus from the start, why didn't he use it to begin with?

[@incognit01233]

Because a virus that can have an effect on a transformer will not stop at one and will more then likely mutate to get the other transformers. It's the equivalent of releasing a world wide biological warfare agent while thinking you'll be protected from it thorugh sheer magic. Also, they are all basically sentient energy beings riding around in robot/techno-organic(semi-organic mimicry not actual organic ) bodies and they have 100% control over it. NOt going to be much in the way of them stopping them.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Beast Megatron being on Cybertron and the rise of the Vehicons is one of those questions that should have been answered in an episode. For crying out loud, not even Transformers Legends has done anything to explain that logistical headache like they have with Victory Wheeljack.

[@Lazrael32]

botcon tryed with Cryotek. but it doesn't really make sense

[@connorshelton9535]

It would honestly make for an interesting comic series

[@BoisegangGaming]

Honestly the biggest issue with the vehicon chase sequences is writing 101: the more you expose something or use it, the less threatening it gets. I get wanting the vehicles to be this horde that will swarm the good guys if they're spotted, but one can build more tension and suspense if they use the threat and dangle it over the audience's heads.

[@R0-83-RT]

Plus they don't often accomplish anything. The fact that the show killed off pretty much everyone on Cybertron right away means the Vehicons can never be seen capturing anyone outside the main cast, nor can they be given anything to do outside chase the main cast. I assume the reasoning behind Megatron wiping out almost all of Cybertron completely was a for budget reasons; the team being unable to animate enough models to make the planet feel lived in.

[@EternityKingdomsHeadHoncho]

If the Oracle was made by Primus, no wonder it sucks. This is the same deity who thought locking his brother inside a space rock, hiding himself inside a space rock of his own, terraforming it into a factory world, and DID NOT expect Unicron to be capable of doing the same thing to his prison asteroid.

[@roboraptorwolf9726]

Unicron terraformed his planet first. Primus created the cypertronians in response to help defeat unicron. The god was trying

[@Lazrael32]

yeah no primus knew he hadn't truly defeated unicron. he went to a LONG game plan for the win. niether unicron or Primus can be permanently defeated. but they are able to be stopped.

[@beastmascot6850]

I love that the screenshot for number three has the biggest clipping issue from the beast shows

[@AlphaRaptor2k6]

Beast Wars: How to reignite a fandom/franchise and add to the mythos. Beast Machines: How to alienate past fans, confuse potential new fans, and generally undo everything the last series did right. Beast Machines: Says one thing one episode and then contradicts it the next, all while being "DEEP". So, Deep, not even the writers can see out to the next episode. Beast Machines: Continuity doesn't matter. References matter only for a single moment then, screw it "Insert Stock Footage/Fight Footage”. Characterization exist only to further the Depth of the series no matter if it makes any sense. On second thought, Anything Goes, so long as it (Seems)"Deep". Plot speed is faster than TM2 Cheetor(Mach 2 or faster)and thicker than (The original)Megatron's helmet, because 'Depth' is what everyone watches the show for.

[@rayvenkman2087]

And people tries to argue it’s actually an underrated gem except underrated gem is what I think of shows like Masters of the Universe 200X, not Beast Machines.

[@ronaldpaterni5081]

So, someone mentioned the retcon about BW Megatron perfecting the virus, but no one mentions BW Megatron falling off the Maximals ship, as it time-travels back, near Cybertron. So, BW Megatron spends a significant amount of time on Cybertron before the Maximals land. This doesn’t contest the bad writing, just stating how BW Megatron had so much time on his hands.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Except they never touched on how he went about his business before the present *on-screen*. You can’t have a weapon that just appears because the plot demands it when it’s a big part of the narrative and as a writer, you have to explain where or how he got it in the first place even if you don’t state it’s exact origins.

[@MrtheFckface]

I also think they could have explained that he overpowered cybertron with his new dragon form which has G1 Megatron powers. Problem is, they didn't ACTUALLY explain it, so people are left guessing and headcanoning

[@Worldpeacekid]

That doesn't make any sense, though; you can't "go faster" to a specific point in time than someone else going to the exact same point in time through the exact same portal as you. You'd reach the same point in time roughly simultaenously. Besides, it still contradicts established lore; the first episode of Beast Wars shows that multiple entities using the same Transwarp portal reach their destination at basically the same time give or take a second or two. So under Beast Wars' own transwarp rules, Megatron _wouldn't_ have had a significant headstart on the Maximals at all, at best he'd have a few seconds, which is definitely not enough time to do much of anything.

[@ronaldpaterni5081]

@@Worldpeacekid No, excuse me, I didn’t imply that. Megatron fell off, and fell to Cybertron, as the Maximal ship progressed forward in time. They left him in history. So, as the ship progressed forward in time, Megatron spent time on Cybertron from the time he fell off until the Maximals landed, and the Maximals had landed several years in the future.

[@ronaldpaterni5081]

@@rayvenkman2087 Yes, exactly! Thanks! I don’t know if anything in BW supports his hacking knowledge…?

[@omegamaximus1727]

Ignoring the Tri-Predacus council and the Vok was so frustrating.

[@augustbornone]

Why is that? Just asking.

[@danielacosta248]

I think you’re taking the “bring the organic back to Cybertron” a bit too literal. I don’t think it’s saying that they needed to bring the dna of random animals back, but rather the essence and spirituality of nature back

[@BryonYoungblood]

Many other versions of Cybertron show some sense of organic life but different too.

[@AU79PLUS1]

I mostly hated Beast Machines, and I generally agree with your assessment, but i do find Waspinator's heretofore unknown crush a reasonable explanation for Thrust's actions. SB wasn't the only one to harbor romantic interest in BA (Cheetor, Quickstrike, at a minimum). I could totally see Waspinator having a crush on her, but realizing he's a loser and didn't have a shot. As Thrust he had confidence, as evidenced by his "chicks dig brooding loner type" comment. He probably figured he could win her over as Thrust. He did display immediate dismay when it was evident she was not going to be his girlfriend. Yes, in a way our mind has to fill in the blanks, but it does feel consistent with the character, and I think kind of funny.

[@jamesblanco7323]

I hate what they did to Waspinator in Beast Machines. Waspinator was never actually bad or evil at all. He just got into some bad company and got beaten up many times over. The fact he got to be treated like a king at the end of Beast Wars is fitting, he certainly earned an easy life after all that. Beast Machines trashed him and made him a real villain, something that never fit with the character.

[@skybite]

Beast Machines was basically X-Men as Transformers. The Vehicons are the Sentinels.

[@megadong2398]

Couldn't have said it any better

[@hogunthegrim5464]

Only X-Men had better heroes: Cyclops, Angel, Jean Grey, Beast and Iceman.

[@megadong2398]

@@hogunthegrim5464 this dude listed ice man.

[@VZMkII]

What’s ironic is I remember the last episode of both Beast Machines and X-Men aired on the same day.

[@leviticusprime4904]

Too bad that it’s a direct sequel to beast wars and as such follows the same characters, but in their attempts to do something different, inadvertently ignored and retconed a bunch of stuff form both g1 and beats wars.

[@TheDaxter11]

One thing I noticed in Beast Wars after watching random episodes recently is that sometimes when Megatron was walking or running in dino mode they would tailor the music around it, adding great big noises in the music whenever his feet would land as he was moving. There was nothing like that in BM.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Beast Machines is a self-sabotaging creature. Every time there’s something commendable about it, the show goes out of it’s way to sandbag itself each and every time. Waspinator getting back to Cybertron and Megatron even being able to take over Cybertron in spite of what was stated on BW. The latter we still have no clue on how or when he was able to take Cybertron. Continuity screwups aplenty in BM with Primal reverting from TM2 to his S1 form despite what happened to it being something that still makes no sense to this day. The BM retcons to BW’s lore and G1’s lore by extension creates a headache in trying to make sense of it all including the very idea that Cybertron wasn’t always a robotic world. Never liked that backstory and treat that Cybertron as Cybertron 2.0 the way Japan handled it. I still do not care for BM’s Trans-Organic Cybertron nonsense either. The wasted potential of exploring a Pax Cybertron world only alluded to in Beast Wars. So much that could have been explored like the Maximal bias over Predacons but didn’t. Would have been a more interesting show had they actually elaborate on those details further. The uncanny valley of the Maximals is just hard to ignore and get used to. DCAU fans who thought TNBA Joker was a bad redesign had it easy compared to BW fans seeing their favourite characters looking like freaks of nature that never translated well to physical toys. Even to this day, we have more RiD 2001/Car Robot updates than anything from BM that isn’t a Vehicon. The fact Dan Fucking Didio was involved in the show’s hot-cold attitude towards being a BW sequel says it all.

[@GatorRay]

The only part of the TNBA Joker design I don't like are the eyes. They look wrong. Honestly think Riddler looks worse as I've seen someone (Won't name them as I NEVER want to feel responsible for folks getting hate mail) compare it to his design from Batman Forever.

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@GatorRay I never liked that design and it seems the creators didn’t either since he never got a full episode in that costume like the others did. In fact, he didn’t speak much other than his appearance in Superman TAS.

[@mindwipe8788]

I always thought Beast Machines took place in an alternate timeline from Beast Wars ending. My theory is proven somewhat true by Rhinox’s memory of what was happening while they were heading back to Cybertron via transwarp, how Megatron escaped and fell through the time stream and probably ended up on Cybertron a few years in the past before they exited transwarp.

[@shawnkarg3794]

I can't hate the Beast Machines series, but it wasn't the sequel Beast Wars deserved. On top of that, at least in my area, they never broadcast the ending. I only got to see the last two or three episodes when I bought the series on DVD.

[@waverod9275]

Forget the whole making a virus thing....how does Megatron arrive before the Maximals? He's tied to the Autobot shuttle, and he doesn't have any means of propulsion. Even after breaking free, he should arrive either at the same time or after the Maximals. The whole premise is flawed.

[@rayvenkman2087]

For all the shit RID 2015 gets, it didn’t center itself around a foundation as fundamentally flawed as BM.

[@brendenhawley2225]

Considering they are time traveling to the future, being slower, means one travels less time to the future.

[@R0-83-RT]

Honestly I didn't mind Vehicon Rhinox for a few reasons. 1 We've seen Rhinox's morality be switched before, and how Rhinox behaves as a villain is fairly consistent with Predacon Rhinox from Beast Wars. 2 At one point Rhinox/Tankor says they are no longer the Vehicon Megatron designed them to be, but they are also no longer the Maximal they were. That implies to me at least that something of Rhinox was lost being in Tankor's body. "I am not quite the Maximal that I was, neither am I what Megatron made me" I personally infer the lack of a beast mode may have caused this effect; because we see in Beastwars Rhinox had a greater connection to his beast mode then most maximals. 3 I simply think Tankor/Rhinox as a villain was effective. Rhinox brought a good amount of subterfuge which really helped make things more dynamic. Especially considering 90% of the villains are drones, so adding a villain with their own motives similar to Tarantulas or Starscream makes the conflict more interesting.

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

The only people who dislike tankor/rhinos are people that don't like change and depth in stories

[@Talon_Productions]

Yeah I've never understood the complaints with how it was done. To me, at least when I've watched Beast Machines, its all right there and makes sense. I feel you hit the nail on the head here. I think not liking the stuff with Rhinox/Tankor is just a personal preference thing rather than a legitimate flaw or bad writing.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Except I highly doubt they were even thinking of the episode Dark Design or even seen it based on the BM writers’ own stupid no watching BW rule. It’s bad writing when you take a character’s personality and make them something else entirely without having a middle-point to bridge the two or establish a reasonable cause as to how they get to that point. BM Silverbolt is completely bastardised from what he originally was and the change in character was never addressed in any meaningful way. Is a character change or a character one-eighty? Rhinox being Tankor is not a problem. It’s how sudden and out of nowhere it is with the change never being addressed in a way that makes you go “Alright. I can see why he becomes that”, even if we don’t consider BW’s The Agenda being a case point in why it doesn’t make sense for him to agree with the same Predacons who almost erased him from existence. Plus with the show’s other instances of bad writing, I doubt they were being brilliant as they thought they were. If you’re changing a character, you have to actually put effort into making it make sense from a character standpoint. The fact it’s even a topic and we’re having to come up with fan explanations for it making instead of the show’s writer is a failure of BM’s storytelling.

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@disconcerningcitizen2224 BULLSHIT. There’s character change (Cheetor maturing into an adult) and depth (Beast Wars being one bot’s quest to undo the Autobots’ victory of the Great War than just happening upon Prehistoric Earth). Then there’s character one-eighty (BM Silverbolt) and pretentiousness passing itself off as being deep (The show’s “spirituality” angle that falls apart when you think about it too much). If Rhinox has to become Tankor, you need to mark a point where that starts and why he starts having those views now when he didn’t before. The way the show handles it and remember; we have to treat what happens in BM as separate from BW because the writers themselves have, we’re missing other pieces to the puzzle. And before you retort; I’ve seen much better examples of heroes turning to the dark side in other works. Usually helps when they tend to establish a point they start turning to the dark side gradually or in a sequence that BM didn’t do for any of the characters from BW.

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

@rayvenkman2087 No, that's wrong they straight up tell you in the show Tankor isn't Rhinox he just gained rhinox's intelligence. Silverbolt is upset at himself for enjoying his stint as a bad guy. This isn't complicated. Cheetor has one of the worst character arcs in bw. He is established at the beginning of season 1 then does nothing, til the middle of season 3. Where he gets a new body and updated personality. I could not give less of a shit that shows have done certain tropes better. That's to be expected it fucking transformers for christ sake not some HBO product.

[@helios5868]

I can't agree that 10-6 are writing flaws. They really do seem to be just personal preferences. Likewise, 4 gets into the issue of time travel. From the Oracle's perspective, the Beast Wars had already happened before Megatron and Primal ever left. Cybertron was made by Autobot-Decepticon war, which would have been VERY different without the Beast Wars happening before that(Humanity's evolution, that second moon, all the suddenly refined energon). That's the destiny part. The Beast Wars literally happened before they left Cybertron. 5 and 1-3...yeah, those are issues. 1 is interesting because, while I don't agree that it was too serious, it never picked a focus for its "seriousness". As such, all the individual components overwhelmed TJ and underwhelmed me. The spirituality was just dumb, the corrupted spark angle was half-baked, the "in enemy territory" stuff didn't work...It felt like it was trying to be multiple "serious" shows, which left no time for anything other that one dour mood.

[@VZMkII]

Begins in B, ends in a T. Um, butt?

[@ronaldpaterni5081]

Absolute butt; totally pants works, too…

[@augustbornone]

I think he was refiring to word Bullsh@t.

[@ronaldpaterni5081]

@@augustbornone I know, I was playing around…

[@augustbornone]

@@ronaldpaterni5081 Lol! 😆

[@tobitobi9097]

The thing you said about how the Oracle's idea of "search for DNA" as the primary underminder of the events of Beast Wars is the one thing I would said is not entirely correct. Simon Furman was the one who technically did it first when he wrote the last 2 BW epidoes with the "Covenant of Primus". Is one long episode yes, but is THE FINAL EPISODE, thus what Furman added has a lot of weight, and sadly... The covenant is the first Oracle-like plot point, as it glories the entire Beast Wars as something destined to happen, and BW Megatron destined to go there and do all that in the first place. Which already undermined the struggle of the entire Beast Wars, in the show itself.

[@markswenson8439]

I still have my Beast Machines Tankor

[@Majinhero]

funny, "i got a virus" was a plot line in war for cybertron siege employd by shockwave.

[@nobodyimportant5140]

There is an explanation for the virus, albeit a retcon, but an explanation nonetheless. Apelinq’s War Journal confirms that the transformation virus was originally conceived by Cryotek. Beast Megatron arrived back on Cybertron and Cryotek offered to purge him of his dragon mode, intending to take it for himself. The procedure left both of them incapacitated, but Megatron awoke first. He stole Cryotek’s research into a transformation lock virus, perfected it, and the rest is history. Yes I get this is a retcon. Yes I get that it’s never explained in the show and it was never the original writer’s intention. However, it is still SOMETHING to explain it. I’ll take that over nothing. I don’t have a problem with supplemental material explaining things and filling in plot holes. It’s not a perfect fix, but an honest attempt is appreciated.

[@leviticusprime4904]

If someone years later has to write something not in the og story in order for it to make sense, then you’ve written a bad story

[@ardrethshadow9338]

@@leviticusprime4904 I guy I knew once said something to the effect of "if it's not in the movie/show, it's not important" when talking about books or whatever that try to fill in those blanks. Taking that literally, it means the writers didn't think the info was important enough to even include in the show/movie. So in turn, yeah, if you need someone to go back and try to fill in whatever holes you left behind, then you wrote a bad story. As much as I liked that story about Cryotek (and just Cyrotek as a character), the point still stands someone had to go back in years later to explain how it happened.

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@ardrethshadow9338 Expanded media should be a platform to expand a universe and it’s lore or be a place where certain ideas can’t be implemented on-screen for various reasons, not be a patch job like the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy when Rey inexplicably could pilot the Millennium Falcon better than the original owner Han Solo who’s had years on the ship despite being on a backwater world. Unlike the case of Luke being good at piloting an X-Wing in ANH where you can make an educated guess on how he could do it, Rey’s case egregious because she apparently learns those skills... In a novel and I don’t think it’s the TFA novelisation either.

[@rudyproductions4557]

Everyone always gets freaked out when a story pulls out the “it was destiny” card. I never really do (most of the time) and I think that I always view “destiny” as 1) somewhat optional (you can follow the path set out for you, but you can still pave your own) and 2) broad strokes. Specific actions are not destined to happen, but big events may be. Destiny chose Primal to go to Earth and bring organic materials back to Cybertron, Optimus never really fought that path, and thus the universe was in his favor, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t HIS accomplishment. Optimus Primal did what he was MEANT to do, but not what he HAD to do.

[@shadowmarauder6033]

What I don’t get is how they thought that making a sequel without watching what it follows off of was a good idea. Seriously, if you’re gonna make a sequel to a movie or series, watch it! Learn as much about it!

[@rayvenkman2087]

It’s not like the chase of Wrath of Khan where you could enjoy it without the prior installments and still get something out of it.

[@mechanwhal6590]

Worst possible decision for a sequel.

[@nitrostormskystriker478]

As your old intro, I think I still haven't got enough rest.

[@Cdr2002]

Isn’t the Oracle a hyper-evolved Vector Sigma?

[@robrice7246]

For the most part, it's Takara and the people who worked on the subsequent Legends manga that extensively explained most of the inconsistencies throughout the show.

[@rayvenkman2087]

But you should never external material just to explain things your show/movie/game should be conveying to the audience.

[@DDRMR]

You sound like such a fuckin nerd I love every single thing about you. Im so happy to see another fellow Beast Wars fan and an actual channel so dedicated to it

[@Kefkaownsall]

So how can we do transformers grimdark (last stand style)

[@HORRIOR1]

Okay so... I remember how Cybertron blew up in the Japanese continuity, but when was it rebuilt? It was fully intact in Beast Wars Neo when unicron tried to take it over.

[@OptimusPhillip]

According to the Unite Warriors web manga, it was rebuilt by the Sky Reign team in the ten years after it was destroyed.

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@OptimusPhillip Then what about the fossils? They ever explained that?

[@mechanwhal6590]

@@rayvenkman2087Maybe they brought fossils from other planets? But then why? For what purpose?

[@jeremy3611]

You could come up with way more than 10 flaws 😂

[@bowserbreaker2515]

I agree with you on the ending thing. One of the reasons I don't think Prime is as good is because Bumblebee's death, resurrection, and then the movie just felt very rushed.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Prime was up it’s own ass at various points. Plus Starscream’s complete subservience to Megatron is still jarring for me to accept in a continuity that supposedly prides itself on consistency... The same continuity that has two separate Tantrums existing with no in-universe acknowledgement about it and Starscream being nowhere to be seen in FOC’s ending.

[@omegamaximus1727]

Beast Machines is basically like Alien 3 . It killed off our favorite characters and it went a direction nobody wanted.

[@Teh_Spirit]

Hasbro sure has a difficult time with connections between shows and/or other properties, sometimes they have a hand in the issues and then when they actually want stuff to be connected the people making the stuff for them are partially to blame for it

[@rayvenkman2087]

Cyberverse was really hampered by a short running time and had they let be a 22-26 minute cartoon, it would be held in much higher regard. Unfortunately, Hasbro will just keep hitting the reboot button over and over but will keep making it about G1 somehow.

[@MrDoctorVK]

If only the writers of Beast Machines would had watched Beast Wars rather then just get couple notes from show, then this could have turned out better.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Maybe then BM Silverbolt wouldn’t be the New 52 to BW Silverbolt’s OG Superman.

[@therussianwanderer4851]

Hey, do 10 writing flaws about Energon.

[@OptimusPhillip]

I'm pretty sure the Decepticons only controlled Cybertron for twenty years before the attack of Unicron.

[@jamesmcdavid1673]

TL;DR, Beast Machines has such massive plot holes that Unicron could fly through them.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Sounds like Dan Fucking Didio Alright.

[@SixshotRevan]

Seriously, what was TJ's old intro? I can't remember it anymore unless I dig up an old episode.

[@HouseholdWheel]

Rhinox didn't become a villain for no reason, he was literally reprogrammed The same exact thing happens to him in an episode of Beast Wars but no-one ever calls that mischarachterisation

[@austinhinton3944]

Because it's clearly telegraphed to the audience that he was reprogrammed. Tanknox being evil comes out of nowhere, its particularly jarring because Silverbolt didn't become an evil megalomanic when his core programming was reactivated in Jetstorm.

[@HouseholdWheel]

@@austinhinton3944 I don't know, being turned into a vehicon and having a new personality put into his head was pretty clearly "telegraphed" in my opinion And why do you assume everyone would react to the reprogramming the same way? Rhinox was the only Maximal who had prior experience being evil, and he enjoyed it the last time

[@UnderFormer_1584]

TJ roasting Beast Machines for 33 minutes and 46 seconds

[@Tazer_Silverscar]

Oh boy, that intro never fails to crack me up X'D

[@kagato3]

About the Rhinox thing. From beast wars we know that the cybertronians have shell programs that effect their personalities. We also saw what Rhinox was like with a Predacon shell program from Dark Designs. Tankor is Rhinox's spark either without Maximal influence or with Magatron's shell programing but not the intelligence inhibiters.

[@R.L.Sutton]

The Oracle said Megatron actions was part of the plan. It was said in the final episode. I love the show. Megatron won for once. I also appreciate that they play it seriously. Not everything has to be fun.

[@jackofallclaws6672]

I actually have an idea to explain Beast Megs’s hatred of organic modes: have it be that as a side effect of fusing with G1 Megatron’s spark, he now has a Jekyll and Hyde situation where him and a copy of og Megs’s personality fight for dominance and that he’s the one who wants to destroy the organics.

[@leviticusprime4904]

No we can’t do that because we would be acknowledging continuity and we can’t have that, expect when we do

[@jackofallclaws6672]

@@leviticusprime4904 Like I care what Dan Didio says.

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@jackofallclaws6672 good point

[@R0-83-RT]

I've heard that headcanon before and I like it. We do have precedent for G1 Megatron being disgusted by humans, and even earth modes, so it wouldn't be that big of a stretch for assume he would distate organic modes. Though as TJ said it shouldn't be our job to fill in the gaps the writers left. Heck If we had gotten this explanation in the show it could have been tied to revealing that Megatron's spark was released back on Earth, something that was unfortunately not shown in Beastwars due to time constraints.

[@likky1]

Didnt a disney show have this exact issue with the ending with a lot of love for the show turning into hate, i haven’t watched much animation so I don’t know

[@Thunderwing88]

She-Hulk: Attorney at Law had that problem.

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@Thunderwing88 I highly doubt it was even that well-liked before it got there.

[@GokhanAras-pj1mm]

I think you are talking about star vs forces of evil

[@likky1]

@@GokhanAras-pj1mm yeah, i believe so

[@Bona_D._Roosky]

ReWatch the Dweller in the Depths, rock tunnels.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

Big brain.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Except the show NEVER makes any acknowledgement of that episode.

[@kamenrider5ds60]

Ok for me I think I have a theory about the reason why Tankor is how he is after the spark-to-spark with Optimus, and its a dumb theory but best one I can think of for this one. Rhinox's maximal identity is a fake, the real Rhinox was the one that was shown when the Predacons made Rhinox switch sides, because hate to say it Tankor who in BM admits he is not under Megatron's control anymore acts Alot like the Predacon Rhinox, and it makes me wonder Did Rhinox block out his own identity to make himself a fake one so he could just live on normally under the nose of the Pax Cybertronia? Possible not but it is a theory.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Interesting theory but it’s the writers’ jobs to make the big change of character for Rhinox to make sense, not us fans trying to make sense of it.

[@leopoldocao6829]

The show feels more like a reboot than a sequel

[@Realmiller24]

Great job brother

[@darthprime4916]

Agreed. Think the 2 worst things that stand out are the Rhinox heel turn (which I ABSOLUTELY hate) and that atrocious ending. It’s a shame bc I think the idea was there and the character models are great. I’d love to see a 3rd party or Mp of any of these.

[@brucethecovidpoo1510]

We got an intro at some point in time but how it went is lost to history

[@mrheroprimes]

Perhaps BW Megatron Getting back to Cybertron before the maximal do Could be something along the lines of say a back to the future time travel where he got free And jumped into the time stream he ended up getting placed back on Cybertron around the time frame Where he had just fled Cybertron with his predicon being chased by primal and his maximals.

[@omegamaximus1727]

Maximals in fighting in Beast Machines is my most hated trope.

[@robrice7246]

21:12 That part is my personal issue with both people who develop T.V. shows and people who hype and respond to them (looking at you Earthspark, it's not Nightshade).

[@rayvenkman2087]

Basically like a lot of recent bad cartoons trying to push a message and put forth the creator’s smug ego first before trying to tell an actual story? Or is it like the case of James Roberts who got a massive head after MTMTE became a Tumblr darling and allowing his inner Steven Moffat to take over his writings when John Barber stepped back as his editor?

[@ThorOdinson]

Beast Machines was a miserable experience, and I hate that Beast Wars, which was spectacular, had to end that way.

[@cyberius7042]

Most of the points in this video can be summed up in one: the show's creators never figured out who the intended audience was for Beast Machines. It's meant to be a cartoon for kids - so let's make it dark, serious and metaphysical. It's supposed to promote a toyline - so let's only feature a few of the characters from the toyline and frequently kill characters off. It's supposed to be a continuation of BW which was set in the same canon as G1 - so don't let the writers see the previous series and only give them a few notes to go from. I don't hate BM, in fact I like that they were trying for more of a high concept sci-fi show than Transformers usually aims for, but it definitely has A LOT of self-inflicted issues.

[@stevencisneros9306]

It’s like the creators of Beast Machines thinks that “fun” is just a joke to them, or maybe they want this show to be one of the few cartoons that are notorious for being SUPER SUPER SERIOUS, and ZERO comedy stuff in it… **sigh**

[@Patrious_WoW]

starts with B and ends with T?

[@jboy667]

now let's be fair they fired the beast wars writers and replaced them with new writers who weren't allowed to watch beast wars. as they didn't want it continuity heavy which just led to a lot of G! references making it more continuity heavy then if they had let the people watch beast wars. So before we bitch let's understand this show was screwed before the writing started

[@joejunior5991]

I really hate how they ruined many of our favourite BW characters that we all know and beloved such as Optimus Primal delusional/fanatics over Oracle of Techno-Organic Freak, Megatron technology obsession megalomaniac and remove his many of his comedic trait that make's him fun, Rattrap being useless, Blackarachnia undermine her teammate because of her Blind love for Silverbolt, Rhinox being evil and try to kill his former comrades, Waspinator being treated like a joke again and Silverbolt being edgy ugly samurai who constantly brooding like emo. The only one that actually good in term of development is Cheetor retained some of his character development in previous BW and Jetstorm being the ONLY comedic character in Beast Machine.

[@GatorRay]

There's two words I have to mention as to why filler isn't always a good thing. Ostrich Ninja.

[@medafan53]

I did not realize that it was only 26 episodes! I guess because I've only seen it once, they do cram so much in and most Transformers shows run for longer I assumed it was somewhere in the 40-50 margin, meaning I was very confused by your plan of handling it all in one month! Makes a lot more sense now. And thinking about it, you're right, IDW's beast wars story 'The ascending' did give the slight context that Megatron got to Cybertron immediately after the Blendatrons attack on cybertron, but it still doesn't explain much about how he managed to take over everything.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Plus if you go by the idea BW II and BW Neo being set after BM like Takara does, then The Ascending doesn’t make any sense canonically speaking since characters from those two appears in the present alongside the BW characters.

[@robrice7246]

I know there was this attempted fan story from Luis Villafane that was trying to explain Megatron's return to Cybertron (I don't think it was ever completed). Not to mention, there was that Dreamwave cover that showed BW Megs in his dragon form being on trial (although that was never completed and the context behind it was a bit different).

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@robrice7246 There’s a TF Legends (The anthology book, not the TakaraTomy series) story all about that but it also seems to effectively treat BM as never happening with how it’s written.

[@jacobjohnson9213]

I actually feel like beast machines is one of the better TF cartoons. I know its not a popular opinion, but the only parts that don't work are where its supposed to connect to beast wars and G1. And it was severely hampered by a crummy toyline, and I can totally understand not liking its premise or tone (or nightscream). But it felt like a more consistent story than most other shows, and you can tell hasbro backed off a bit on forcing their marketing down the writer's throats, the one thing that kept setting beast wars back. Its not a good sequel but it stands well on its own. Beast Wars is more fun, but a bunch of its plots and characters were just thrown away because toy sales (I still freaking hate Tigerhawk). That being said, Shadow Raiders (war planets) was made by the same studio a year earlier and it outclasses both cartoons, great characters and a great plot centered on an invincible, nightmarish Unicron-like monster.

[@disconcerningcitizen2224]

It feels like the only tf series that doesn't feel like it was met to sell toys. Although I do think it's a good sequel to beast wars

[@symbiote1982pk]

But there was time between episodes, a whole week, no ones making you binge the eps dude.

[@awesomeguy9513]

It is odd megatron used maximal sparks for the generals like you know these guys hate you why did you use them. If megatron could pull any spark why not use inferno and scorponok 2 characters more loyal that maximals, heck when primal does tap into their sparks he could try to use megatrons abuse/killing towards them to get them to maybe turn on megatron and if they do you could kill them off and replace them with obsidian and strika. As for megatrons sudden rise to supreme leader it was a mess. When the maximals return megatron stapled to the outside of the ship escapes “surprise” and took over with mystery gas he had cause why not. How about a part 1 and 2 megatron is in the ship and once they land megatron causes a scuffle and slips away injured into the lower levels where he finds maybe an old shockwave or tarantulus lab where he can reverse engineer the gas with vok information, while that is going on the maximals are trying to use earth data they collected while dealing with the predacons to help find away to solve the planet’s resource issue like cyber x animal based alt modes that can use energon or organic matter as fuel but in kart 2 megatron releases the gas thus locking the cast in alt modes animal and vehicle cause not everyone in cybertron got the new upgrade yet. Then some time skip the remaining maximals are under ground and megatron starts up the vehicons. This isn’t perfect it won’t be a 100% fix there’s still hole but it’s better at explaining some things that the shows plot. Honestly a fan project of a newer beast machines story would be nice cause beast machines story is rubbish and we’ve seen bests wars we know the characters and the history

[@chadderbug7587]

It probably was a torture thing. It's a classic trope to turn the best friend into the worst enemy

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@chadderbug7587 but why he choose waspinator then?

[@chadderbug7587]

@@leviticusprime4904 He was a dumb enough spark to put into a loyal machine

[@DetectiveBarricade]

Scorponok took a dip in lava, while Inferno and Quickstrike were destroyed by the Nemesis when Megatron fired upon the protohuman settlement. I severely doubt Megatron could have pulled their sparks even if he wanted to.

[@ronaldpaterni5081]

Yes, I agree, Waspinator for his loyalty. As for Maximal sparks for the generals, yes, it could be that he wanted to twist good into evil, but I also thought of another reason. Maybe Predacon sparks are too loyal to think freely- something that would be a good trait for a general. So, Megatron acknowledged that Maximal sparks made better generals, and used them, corrupting them enough to still be loyal.

[@Radi0ActivSquid]

Beast Machines simply doesnt exist in my headcanon. I hated it that much.

[@omegamaximus1727]

I feel the same way .

[@robrice7246]

For most fans, BM & RID 15 fall on opposite ends of the writing spectrum (despise the fact I subjectivity like both of them). Although the Prime Wars & WFC Cartoons are a bit worse.

[@rayvenkman2087]

“We’re not like the Decepticons!” Beast Megatron being the Morgana to G1 Megatron’s Ann: “Oh please Great, Glorious and Beautiful Megatron, sit on me face!” Skywarp. Dies of Offscreenmatitis.

[@rayvenkman2087]

Wasps shouldn’t have returned to BM. How he was used and treated in the show as himself is woeful.

[@leviticusprime4904]

Why would mega even want wasps?

[@twistedgaming9185]

@@leviticusprime4904 Because he's an idiot: idiots are easier to control.

[@rayvenkman2087]

@@leviticusprime4904 I wonder that myself. Inferno I’d understand but not him.

[@NightmareZerogbs]

Yeah no, the series was plain bad. Also, the dub, at the very least in Latin America, changed EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER'S VOICES _AND EVEN THE TRANSLATED NAMES OF EVERYONE_ it never even felt like a sequel because literally nothing carried over unchanged! Well no, there was ONE thing they kept the same, Silverbolt's dub name...Lobo Plateado, which is absurdly stupid because that translates to SILVER WOLF AND BY THIS POINT HE WAS NEITHER SILVER NOT A WOLF AT ALL.

[@jeffcrothers9771]

Now I can't Rewatch Beast Machines.

[@diegodankquixote-wry3242]

You shouldn't feel shame for liking beast machines.

[@jeffcrothers9771]

@@diegodankquixote-wry3242 I use to but now I realize it wasn’t good.

[@cpubigdipper9145]

Actually, i like the ending of this series it's a decent conclusion. But overall, beast machines is still an underrated TF cartoon.

[@stephennorako1807]

Other than repetitive fight sequences, all of your gripes come off as whaa whaa whaa angry fanboy didnt get his way. “Worst episiode ever”😂

[@jeebus2313]

A bad final season or hell even just a bad final episode can absolutely ruin a series. Just look at Game of Thrones as a case of the former. Of course Beast Machines...was never all that great in the first place so even if the finale was good I doubt it would have helped much, but still. Edit: I typed this comment out before you yourself mentioned Game of Thrones. Whoops lol.

[@aballofgrime7273]

It's stated that the oracle wanted Megatron to take it.