Herne Hill's Tube Station That Never Was

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Quote of the Day: “The future isn’t set in stone which is good news if you’re planning to dig a tunnel through it.”

[@terrycostin7259]

Best quote I've heard in ages, our leader is a genius. 👨‍🎓

[@frejatotheworld]

But doesn't good stone make tunneling much more easier than with something that's more likely to move?

[@Damien.D]

@@frejatotheworld depends, rock too hard can't be dug with tunneling machines, and requires TNT or dynamite, that may shakes some foundations!

[@ulicnik24]

@@Damien.D Solid hard rock is far better than muddy soft ground. It's possible to adjust TBM machines for hard rock ground and afterwards is much easier to keep the shape of the already dug tunnel.

[@rogerblackwood8815]

You stole the words from my mouth👍👍

[@tpaul2866]

Maybe the tunnelling machines took a while to stop? Sailed past Brixton a tad before tunnelling to a halt. ‘Stop’ bellowed the Fat Controller. ‘Oh alright’ said the machine.

[@egarutemn]

Where do you think the face of the little tunnelling machine would go?

[@kimbledunster]

@@egarutemn Indeed...

[@paulhaynes8045]

Silly. They obviously used a giant mole.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@egarutemn it’s the face that’s chewing up the clay ;) nom nom nom

[@Eddyspeeder]

One of the joys of watching these videos is the unspoken agreement that Jago will never miss the opportunity to make the cheesiest of word plays, and his viewers will happily do a face palm while secretly chuckling. This time, however, it seems he let the most obvious joke slide down the overrun tunnel. So, allow me: At 0:55, the correct ending of the sentence "in the extremely unlikely event that a train doesn't stop in time at Brixton, ..." is: "...the overrun tunnel makes sure it doesn't hit a brick wall... a ton of brix, if you will."

[@DIETRICHCICCONE]

The Eurostar trains ran through Herne Hill station in the 'Waterloo International' days.

[@wilsonlaidlaw]

As someone who when commuting, spend many miserable hours in the purgatory that was East Croydon Station, I think that a tube line to East Croydon as an alternative means of transport would be a very sensible idea. I used to have nightmares that when I died, I went to East Croydon.

[@eldrago19]

My grandfather was librarian for The City of London. He used to have nightmares he was trapped in the Barbican, unable to find his way to the ground.

[@AndreiTupolev]

How long would it take to get to Croydon though? East Croydon to Victoria is about 15 minutes, an all stations Tube would probably take at least half an hour

[@wilsonlaidlaw]

@@AndreiTupolev You are missing out the miserable hour crammed onto a platform at London Bridge, waiting for the train that never arrives; signalling problems at New Cross Gate, crocodiles on the line at Purley, divine manifestation at South Norwood or similar.

[@hb1338]

@@eldrago19 In the early days of the Barbican Centre, one of the London Symphony Orchestra's cellists (Douglas Cummings) went 'out front' at a concert interval and didn't make it back until half way through the second half.

[@sianiswack633]

@@wilsonlaidlaw cue Aaronovitch book

[@teem4800]

Love it when you talk about my local stations!

[@thomasthompson2899]

I assume the the field at the 4:00 mark is in Brockwell Park. Do you know about the Brockwell Park Miniature Railway? It's about 50 to 100 feet to the right of where you were standing to get that shot, and runs along the North edge of the park. It should start running next month and is usually open Sundays. It might make for a nice video.

[@elodieowen6102]

I used to love going on that when I was little!

[@ThomasTrue]

Lovely scene of Brockwell Park there, Jago. I haven't seen that since the Festival for Youth in 1984.

[@JayJay-nc7pr]

In the 1940s railway plan, a much larger version of the Victoria line saw it have two southern branches, one to Croydon via Streatham, Norbury and Thornton Heath, the other was to Sevenoaks via Herne Hill, Penge East, Beckenham, Bromley and Orpington

[@sarahlouise7163]

explains why we’re still waiting in Beckenham 🤣

[@aliendon73]

When I worked on the Underground (many many years, now at Tramlink), there was talks going on in 2006 about the Brixton extension. The plan was to either go through to Bromley South or Hayes, but this never came to fruition. Maybe in the future?

[@1258-Eckhart]

My Franklin Jarrier map does indeed show those overrun tunnels curving with precision aforethought towards Herne Hill. This would seem to be another of those TfL decisions à la Battersea Power Station Station, which wasn't extended to Clapham Junction because "too many passengers". As used to be said in BR days, "we could run an excellent railway if it weren't for the damn passengers."

[@warweezil2802]

The Victoria line was planned before the TfL REGIME was imagined or existed. London Transport was extremely limited in what it could achieve.

[@johannayaffe2647]

Yes! Exactly. Back in the day I did a BR timetable reading & ticketing course and that's exactly what the BR teacher said to us !

[@tonys1636]

All tube terminus stations should have been built with space to halt a train before the buffers that's not adjacent to the platforms. Often a wall just after the buffers and no grip rails or gravel trap before as on network rail stations. They also come in slower.

[@hb1338]

@@tonys1636 Moorgate being perhaps the most infamous example of this.

[@roderickmain9697]

Ah ha. (Secret Victpria line.... I see what you did there) A quick scan of googly maps suggest if they went to Herne Hill there would be opportunities to appropriate an overground line (or two) if Streatham & Croyden or Crystal Palace was deemed to be a useful extension. Almost in tram country then. But as others have said - "Vision" or lack of it is the issue.

[@johnjephcote7636]

As a student I lived in Herne Hill in 1970/1, before the Brixton station opened. I used the green Southern electrics of BR to Victoria. The journey time was short but the tube would have enabled me to stay underground all the way to Kentish Town, changing at Euston.

[@hugsparty]

Having dug out the tfl map (thank you jago - new obsession) it looks like it's now used as a high cap ventilation shaft with a classic mid-century rectangle-box building. Very hard to imagine that curve trajectory isn't meant for Herne Hill/beyond.

[@hb1338]

What does the topographical map look like ? Is there high ground on either side of the tunnels ? That would be a possible explanation for their path.

[@AFCManUk]

That's a REALLY interesting Map!! It shows the Jubilee Line passing directly beneath Marylebone Station, meaning they COULD have made a stop/connection there, alongside the Bakerloo Line station that already exists. Perhaps they figures Swiss Cottage and St John's Wood were too close already.

[@jonasrosengren9093]

Thanks

[@JagoHazzard]

And thank you!

[@Furitokama]

Paris metro has several loops as terminal station. Line 2 on both side, Porte Dauphine and Nation Line 4 on the northern side, Porte de Clignancourt Line 5 on the southern side Place d'Italie Line 6 on both side. Charles de Gaulle Etoile and Nation On Line 7bis, the loop contains several stations.

[@RunawayTrain2502]

And London had the original White City terminal station.

[@mdhazeldine]

Thanks for pointing out the map with the long name. Very interesting to browse around it and see all the disused bits like the Aldwich branch and the Charing Cross branch, plus all the turning loops.

[@paulhaynes8045]

That map is incredible! Just 'wasted' a couple of hours wandering about on it and cross-checking it against tube and Google maps It is at the same time, both the most interesting map I've ever used and the most confusing! I discovered a return loop on the Northern for instance, that I didn't know existed (just south east of Embankment - partly under the river!). Also, the 'Fleet Line' tunnels that extend beyond Charring Cross towards Strand station go much further than I thought - they practically reach the station! But, as I result of my 'lost' two hours, I've revised my view on the Brixton overrun tunnels (see below) - I now agree they were only going to one place, and that was Herne HIll. Whilst they could have gone on to Wimbledon instead, it would have taken a hell of a tight turn, and, anyway, the Wimbledon/Morden area is already pretty well served with lines, so I don't really see the point. The other thing about the overrun tunnels is they end at an electricity sub-station, which makes me wonder if that's why they are as long as they are - they more or less had to go there. Or was the sub-station built there because the tunnels were already planned to go that far (and further)? I've always been aware (of course!) that the 'Tube' map and reality are at significant odds with each other, but I'd never fully realised just how different they are until now. I'm even starting to consider whether Harry Beck's map was such a good thing! OK, as a diagram of the system, it's a work of genius and very useful for navigating, but for understanding where you are in the real London and your relationships with other places, it's a bloody nightmare! I'm now of the opinion that TFL should publish both the Beck diagram AND the 'real' map and have both available and displayed in stations. I'm sure this would make tourists' lives much easier. An example of what I mean (train nerd, rather than tourist, in this case) is the ex-Piccadilly line to Strand, and the possibilities of reopening/extending it , etc. The location of this on the (old) Beck diagrams and it's actual position are very different - even more so when you consider where it might be extended. The argument (for instance) that the Strand station is too close to the Charring Cross one doesn't hold up - they are quite far apart - nowhere as near to each other than many other Underground stations. And, looked at on Beck's diagram, you'd never guess how near the Piccadilly line is to the Strand - or where an extension of that branch would cross the river and head south (running due south, it pretty much hits Elephant and Castle). And you'd never guess how close Strand and Temple are either. Those two stations could easily be combined, so that we'd go from one closed and one under-used stations, into a combined busy interchange and destination. Add to that the possibilty of extending a branch of the Jubilee eastwards, as was originally intended, and you've got a very tempting project!

[@eattherich9215]

@@JP_TaVeryMuch: investing in land and, in particular, property is a good investment strategy since it can always be sold to raise cash.

[@francisrogers9824]

You could have a loop line with multiple platforms. An example of this is at World Trade Center on the PATH network in New York City. That way it could allow for extra capacity and would allow for a small cushion in the schedule if delays were to happen. I think I've seen a plan somewhere that wanted the line to go to Tulse Hill as well as Herne Hill.

[@IIVQ]

The Paris metro does the same at Place d'Italie: Two tracks in the loop, which is very much a "terminal" station: Trains dwell here and you'll get scolded for staying in the train. However, trains keep going in the same direction (relative to the car, not relative to the compass).

[@stephengreenwald5271]

Herne Hill is 24 years from Tulsa Hill.

[@francisrogers9824]

@@stephengreenwald5271 Tulse Hill is in South London. I'm not talking about Tulsa.

[@davidemmott6225]

Heathrow? Liverpool Wirral Line?

[@stephengreenwald5271]

@@francisrogers9824 Gene Pitney.

[@Fluteboy]

According to that asset map, TfL still own the land where Bushey Heath station was going to be built. They also retain pockets of land along the original intended route of the Jubilee line, between Charing Cross and Cannon Street. Also, at Highgate Wood - where the line once curved off towards Alexandra Palace - they still own that curve.

[@Fluteboy]

There’s more: There was once a plan to extend the Bakerloo Line to Camberwell. To the south of Camberwell Green, numerous pockets of land form the shape of north/southbound platforms. Despite the decades of inaction, they continue to retain the relevant territory.

[@jackmartinleith]

It's the site of the former Aldenham Bus Overhaul Works (see Wikipedia).

[@Fluteboy]

@@jackmartinleith Correct. The majority of the land was sold off for development after the closure of the bus works, though a triangle of land by the roundabout remains under TfL ownership.

[@neilbain8736]

What a fascinating idea. The tunnels have a definite shape and direction which takes planning.

[@roderickjoyce6716]

I used to to travel to school on the line from Victoria to Herne Hill. During the construction of the Brixton Extension there was a large compound next to the main line, which is on an embankment. It was full of tunnel segments and narrow-gauge spoil wagons and I believe was more or less at the point where the tunnels end now. I can't remember what was on the site before then, and it was cleared for housing shortly after the Extension opened.

[@stevemoss7793]

If by chance you were going to DC and it was 1965/6 then I do believe we travelled together...

[@SamAronow]

I'm sure if Herne Hill station ever did open, Alexander Pope would rise from the grave to epically roast it.

[@RJSRdg]

It's also worth mentioning that the platforms at Brixton aren't parallel to each other - the corridors connecting the platforms together are much shorter at the London end than the other end - the start of a loop, perhaps?

[@jeremypreece870]

The future really isn't set in stone. How true! The future should be easy to tunnel through as it is as clear as mud, so it is probably very soft. It should also be exciting to tunnel into as the future will always turn out to be nothing like you ever expected.

[@Thornaby37]

The over run tunnels at Brixton provide extra sidings beyond the station platforms. Walthamstow Central (Victoria Line) and Elephant & Castle (Bakerloo Line) also have them Likewise Charing Cross (Jubilee Line) had them when it was open

[@pleappleappleap]

I was so tired after this week's work that I took a nap. I wake up to find the pleasant surprise of a Jago video. Ahhhhhh.

[@Graham-ce2yk]

It's fairly common to do prep work for possible extensions when underground lines are being constructed, an example similar to this can be found on the New York Subway at the Norwood-205th street station on the Concourse line, the overrun tunnels there were intended for a future extension of the line that, so far has not materialized. The original extension was aborted because the City of New York found it cheaper to buy out a defunct railroad and link parts of it up to the existing network, the second disappeared in the cities 1970s financial crisis, but the tunnels remain, awaiting use.

[@rolandbogush2594]

Fascinating, as always. At 1 min 30, you briefly show the very large 'Underground' roundel above the entrance to Brixton station. That sign must be about 4m high, and it made me wonder if this is the largest manifestation of the London Underground logo, or is there a larger one in existence? If any would know, Jago Hazzard, it would be you!

[@JagoHazzard]

It is, at present, the largest.

[@captaincodpiece3263]

Speaking of over run tunnels I was once on a train that stopped at seven sisters but heard no announcement the train terminated there (so passengers would cross the platform to continue to Walthamstow Central). I stayed aboard only to find myself transported down a dead end tunnel where the train stopped, a surprised driver making his way along the train via the interconnecting doors saw me and told me to sit tight until the train set off south and pulled into seven sisters again where I could disembark. This seems different to the over run tunnels described as seven sisters is not at the end of a line. What’s going on here then? I wonder if Jago could shed any light? As fir Herne Hill I heard the story it’s named after Hern the Hunter, an Anglo Saxon deity, related to the similar Celtic Cern, the horned one, also a pagan hunter god. Well that’s what I heard

[@chrisoddy8744]

If I remember Seven Sisters has a third platform where trains from Northumberland Park Depot go - I think it also has a reversing siding but I can't confirm that

[@kinrah1711]

From this track map I'm looking at, Seven Sisters does have three platforms - with 1 and 2 being the main line platforms, Platform 5 is Southbound and both 3 and 4 go Northbound, and while both platforms 3 and 4 can access the track to Walthamstow Central, only platform 4 can access the depot (and subsequently the crossover to the Southbound track). There is no dedicated reversing siding. In the above case, I'm assuming that the train used the depot access road *as* a reversing track.

[@michaelmiller641]

Or heron hill, there is a heron road, just parallel to poplar walk road where I lived as a kid

[@captaincodpiece3263]

@@michaelmiller641 people seem to like these “exotic” explanations for place names tying them to ancient legends and such like so I’m always a bit skeptical when I hear them

[@captaincodpiece3263]

@@kinrah1711 thanks for that explanation

[@plaws0]

Got a link for that map? I get that there are capacity issues on the Victoria Line, but I can't see that as a reason not to build a connection point on the network (at Herne Hill). Nodes on a network are GOOD. They make the *network* more robust. If there are capacity issues, address them! But not by avoiding connections.

[@marienbad2]

"loopy tale from the tube" - the puns! the puns! Don't ever stop lol.

[@richardterrell5309]

So interesting, I had not idea of thoughts for Wimbledon, or Croydon and that loop idea at Herne Hill if ever to be.

[@MrGreatplum]

I quite like the idea of a loop at the end of the line - I’m sure it would be beneficial to time keeping etc?

[@highpath4776]

I imagine the overruns followed the line to Herne Hill for that wayleave non payment reason - under existing public assets

[@birdbrain4445]

You know. I kind of hope it does happen, though I understand that would put more strain on the Victoria Line. Still, more rapid transit connections further south are always welcome. Who knows what the future holds. Great video!

[@tomnewsom9124]

In a sensible world, the Northern Line extension would have gone down the A23, relieving the Victoria line and going on to connect the Streatham stations together. Many people already bus into Brixton from this direction to change for the tube. The Victoria would then have spare capacity to head for Herne & parts beyond (Dulwich, forest hill).

[@HughTerry69]

I used to live in Herne Hill and I remember how frustrating it was to take the Tube from central London to Brixton and then have to catch a bus to get home. Since the arrival of Thameslink trains, Herne Hill has already become an important interchange and a Tube connection would be even more welcome to accommodate passengers using Thameslink services. The entrance to the popular Brockwell Park is a matter of yards from Herne Hill station too. A tube link to Brixton and the West End could reduce road traffic in the Herne Hill area. I'm not sure about the 'loopy' idea - but as the distance from HH to Brixton must be less than 2 miles, and if the tunnel is already one-third complete... I say build it!

[@terrycostin7259]

I vaguely remember that where the Vic terminates at Walthamstow Central around the same time as the Brixton extension was proposed there was also a proposition to extend it to Harlow via Chingford , that was in the early 60's when I was still in nappies 💩

[@joelong7273]

my guess is that it could have been built that way because it loosely follows the alignment of the mainline above. So I guess it may have been cheaper to get permission build the extra tunnels under the railway instead of under houses or shops. Of course this is just based off looking at the map and no other prior research and is just an idea

[@PlanetoftheDeaf]

Maybe the thinking in 2013 was that Crossrail 2 would be built, thus relieving the Victoria line between Victoria and Euston, and freeing up capacity for a small extension. If lots of people were then to change at Herne Hill onto the Victoria Line, wouldn't that INCREASE congestion at the station, as more people getting on and off the trains would increase dwell time?

[@highpath4776]

Cannot think many would get off at Herne Hill that dont already wanting to go to Brixton. It would be more a swap from buses.

[@amethyst7084]

Great stuff Jago. Thanks for another very informative video. It's interesting to learn of that TfL document which illustrates the tunnels which were built for varying reasons. If this does materialise into a tube connection with Herne Hill, and other south east London locations, that would be of great note indeed. 👍🏾👍🏾

[@sigmuz7685]

As a resident of Herne hill, I really wish this could be a reality.

[@mcarp555]

I'd be interested in more videos about these overrun tunnels and where they could potentially connect to future stations. I wonder if TFL had an unlimited budget what kind of network would they salivate about?

[@paulhaynes8045]

Secret tunnles connecting the Underground with the Manchester trams, Glasgow Subway, Newcastle Metro, etc - nationwide domination!

[@stashedawayman1521]

Shortly they may have an unlimited budget when they undemocratically extend the ULEZ to the boundary of the M25.

[@saeedhossain6099]

having lived in Dulwich since 1987 we'd always talk about tunnels that go down to effra houses, with the idea that Herne Hill/brockwell park would get a station. it is a good solution to have a loop station, city hall station in Manhattan would have been kept on the 6 train had trains not gotten longer

[@peabody1976]

What bugs me about there "there's no business case for..." is a lack of vision: Bottleneck or no, you revitalise an area that is "quiet" with the added stop. It wouldn't just allow Thameslink and National Rail a relief, but it would make Herne Hill a destination per se. I do also disagree with a single-platform loop station: it works at Heathrow 4, but it limits even further aspirations of taking the line farther south. Still, this is a nice "what could be/could have been" video. Have a nice weekend, Jago.

[@aprilsmith1166]

@Corey Reid Tunnel vision? 🤔

[@highpath4776]

its more The Nimbys wont let us build loads of flats for the council tax

[@allangriffiths9555]

Why would you want to take the line farther (sic) south? Who would use it? There are plenty of quicker ways of getting into and out of central London.

[@bartsimho1192]

@@allangriffiths9555 The Tube has an Aura around it and with it being present on the most used transport maps in London while the National Rail is not. It is the oddity of South London Transport. There are plenty of rail lines but not any "London Underground" lines. While the Mainlines work very well and have a good service they aren't as publicised.

[@norbitonflyer5625]

Having a loop at Charing Cross, and later at Kennington, didn't stop further extensions of the Nothern Line

[@AdamDTaylor]

Yeah Herne Hill - I live near there! Good one Jago 👍

[@LeeSmith-cf1vo]

One problem with the loop line plan as presented in this video that I've only just thought of is that you'd have to run trains as if its a station in the middle of the line, i.e. with a low dwell time. This means there is almost no slack available to recover from a problem. Maybe this could be mitigated somewhat by actually building 2 through platforms on the loop. That would allow for some some extended dwell time for recovery purposes

[@jimluetchford9200]

"you'd have to run trains as if its a station in the middle of the line, i.e. with a low dwell time" That's effectively what they do with Étoile Charles de Gaulle on Ligne 6 of the Paris metro: The single platform on the loop at Étoile is treated as if it were a normal stop, and the previous/next station, Kléber, is run as the "real" terminus with slack time for recovery etc....

[@OffTheRailsUK]

The idea of the loop line through Herne Hill reminds me of the original Embankment platform

[@GreatSageSunWukong]

I was messing around on google maps trying to see what was within walking distance of east acton of interest other than westfield, when I noticed that theres a lone piece of track inside wormwood scrubs prison on the side near artillery lane, any idea what its from? google didn't help me I am thinking its to do with its construction in the 1870s or when it was used by MI6 in the 1940s.

[@godvina666]

The over run tunnels at Walthamstow also seem to go much further, I wonder if there was a plan to run it towards Leyton?

[@rockerjim8045]

Could Jago show a map of all the other Overrun Tunnels please

[@JagoHazzard]

Perhaps there’s another video in it!

[@marvintpandroid2213]

@@JagoHazzardA most interesting map, didn't realise the old strand tube went quite so far.

[@highpath4776]

One day I will remember that Herne Hill is closer to Brixton than it is to Peckham and get on the right bus when I want to go to new cross

[@davidaarthur]

If the loop makes for easier turnarounds, would that allow any more frequent service on the Victoria Line?

[@RJSRdg]

Probably, because one of the constraints on capacity is the conflicting movements across the points at the end of the platform at Brixton. However a similar arrangement would be needed at Walthamstow in order to get the capacity increase.

[@nlemecfc]

As soon as yoo started the sentence "the future's not set" I shared the rest of it with you 😂

[@ukroadsandtransport]

Awesome, some more information that I didn't know about London, thanks again ❤️

[@paulsee2037]

Well the line could have diverted to the Herne Hill Velodrome and used the banked track as a fast non stop loop for the return to Brixton

[@Jimyjames73]

I didn't know about these 'over-run' Tunnels & now I do!!!! Thanks for sharing 😉🚂🚂🚂

[@maggiesamuels2937]

Would be handy for me to have a tube station at Herne Hill , I walk to Brixton underground every morning from Herne Hill. Hay! Ho! 👍🏻 thanks for the information Jago.

[@thetek2006]

On that map which may be of interest, I note that there is a large plot of land inexplicably owned by London Underground Limited immediately to the east of Eden Park station on the Southeastern line to Hayes, Kent. This appears to consists of most of the Langley Park sports ground adjacent to the boys and girls schools of the same name and must surely be related to the proposed Bakerloo line extension which would consume the route. I wonder if they are planning on moving the current awkwardly located station along the line a bit.

[@thetek2006]

Having looked at the word salad map in question is it possible that the existing south-eastward bend was just the start of a longer bend which would take the line under Brockwell Park and on perhaps to Tulse Hill, West Norwood, Selhurst and East Croydon. I chose Selhurst as it could perhaps give a southern storage location for rolling stock in the existing rail depot and there'd be a fair bit of football traffic using it on Crystal Palace matchdays I'd imagine.

[@ricktownend9144]

Not sure if loop ends for tube lines work very well - e.g. Heathrow T4. The real need for Brixton was, and is, a line going south to Brixton Hill and Streatham; stand for a few minutes by Brixton tube station entrance and watch the crowds coming out and getting on to buses which crawl off in that direction. The other need is a direct link to Clapham Junction - i.e. platforms on the Overground line at Brixton. Herne Hill is a bottleneck because of the fast trains using the double-track line; if there were a new fast line built (in tunnel, probably) there could be tube-frequency stopping trains, both on the Victoria-Bromley and Thameslink routes, taking significant traffic off the roads. Herne Hill would become an important interchange, like Finsbury Park in N London, with nice, cross-platform transfers. And passengers on the fast trains would get more quickly to Victoria - and, hey, why not continue the tunnel so that they could travel right across London to, say, the lines out of Euston or Marylebone!

[@lapiswake6583]

I was planning to visit Herne Hill today, as it was supposed to be my girlfriend's last day at work so we were going to drop her work laptop into the office and she finish a few things off, then go riding SouthEastern stuff. However, it's a strike day, so no one else would've been in the office, so we went for a walk instead, and discovered the Staines Oil Depot tracks on the old Staines West branch...

[@aprilsmith1166]

@Lapis Wake So, not a wasted day after all. She's a lucky girl! Staines Oil Depot! Who knew?

[@lapiswake6583]

@@aprilsmith1166 she loves exploring and riding trains with me. It was her idea for the walk, and she enjoyed today probably more than I did.

[@teecefamilykent]

Brilliant video sir!

[@tazareal]

Turning tube trains around on loops sounds like a New Yorky thing, eg, South Ferry & City Hall in Manhattan.

[@kenmorris100]

Jago an interesting proposition. As you stated the overrun tunnel at The Elephant and Castle was part of the work started on the extension to Camberwell before it was halted, likewise the Jubilee line station at Charing Cross has an overrun tunnel that almost reached Aldwych as part of the planned Fleet Line route. As I previously mentioned the main lobbying was for the line to serve Streatham which has a more significant residential/shopping traffic than Herne Hill. Would you put in the chat a link to where it is possible to obtain a copy of the map you used please.

[@dambrooks7578]

Sadly Johnson was Mayor in 2013 so it was another impressive Boris Boast, just like bringing back smoking in pubs...

[@iankemp1131]

Is Herne Hill really that far off the route to Streatham and Norbury? It looks as if it falls on a gentle curve. Or there's the cut price way of getting there by emerging on to the Network Rail line via Tulse Hill. But how much use would Herne Hill be? Trains arriving there are already going to Victoria or Thameslink, so although it's a nice-looking connection, it may not gain much.

[@simoncolenutt5228]

Loop line might be useful in making intensive operation more robust (I think the Victoria line is the most intensively worked rail line in the world, or close to it) But I think Herne Hill station would be overwhelmed if it went there. My preference [CRAYONS OUT] would be a double ended station where the sainsbury's is on Brixton water lane linking to Brixton Hill Road and therefore picking up passengers from two intensive bus routes. [/CRAYONS]

[@ronalddevine9587]

Always clever, always enjoyable.

[@AtheistOrphan]

4:09 - Suddenly I’ve got Aerosmith/Run DMC in my head.

[@ThatScottishAtlantic57]

Nice vid Jago 👍

[@evolutionxbox]

A Herne hill tube station would be nice

[@ladiorange]

Great video!

[@highpath4776]

Is this the map the builders out in Drayton Park used to not find the tunnel that was there, but not being TfL was not on the map ? ( Northern City Line )

[@Stand663]

I forgot there was a tube line to Herne Hill. I thought it was always overground. Very Interesting

[@kimvibk9242]

Victoria's Secret Tunnel...that sounds absolutely dirty...! 🤣

[@marvintpandroid2213]

Good evening Mr Hazzard.

[@davidthorne7712]

It’s 6:30am Saturday here (New Zealand)

[@JagoHazzard]

Good evening!

[@archstanton6102]

1330 in DC

[@hb1338]

@@davidthorne7712 some time in the 1870s here in Surrey.

[@maryapatterson]

South London is poorly served by the tube. You come out of Brixton and then you have to wait for another bus which can be really crowded, unlike many destinations in London where you get out of the tube and its a quick 10 mins walk home.You need a tube line to Lewisham and another to East Croydon.

[@SB-km6fp]

Talking of proposed Victoria Line extensions, how about Northumberland Park?

[@jayjames5839]

I don't always understand every aspect of what's said but it's still a smoothing balm to my existence 🤔

[@tedcopple101]

Now the QE is complete, is there any other TFL engineering works in the pipe(tube) line? Any been signed off;?

[@paulhaynes8045]

I misread this as Herne Bay! It's a mark of Jago's eclectic videos and the odd things he turns up, that it was several seconds before I realised he can't have meant Herne Bay...

[@paulhaynes8045]

@@seanbonella until Putin is defeated.

[@sarahlouise7163]

🤣

[@hughjampton7518]

Yay! For only the fifth time ever I correctly predicted the variables in the 'You are the .... to my ....' signoff. Does anybody else play this game?

[@parttimespotter2027]

Many years ago I was told that the Victoria line was to go through the Crystal Place area. Some tunnelling was done and it caved in killing a worker/s. It was said to be haunted and many strange groans could he heard above ground. Probably piffle but .... who knows.

[@lassepeterson2740]

Herne Hill is a wonderfull station .

[@Andrewjg_89]

Maybe the Victoria Line should of extend to Herne Hill that would have a connection with GTR Thameslink and Southeastern trains as a interchange station. Plus there was a mention from London Evening Standard about plans to extend the Northern Line to extend to Clapham Junction from Battersea Power Station. And the Bakerloo Line to extend from Elephant and Castle to Lewisham, Hayes and Bromley.

[@eattherich9215]

Don't really see the point of extending to just one stop beyond Brixton. The Southeastern line already passes through Brixton. However, it is not where I would chose to change onto the Victoria line since it is a high level station and there is a bit of a walk to the underground. As for extending the Bakerloo line to Lewisham and beyond, I keep wondering how another set of tracks could be squeezed into the tangle of existing lines.

[@Andrewjg_89]

Totally agree.

[@TheColum78]

Are those underground/tube maps widely available?

[@TheUnknown313]

That would've been something. Walthamstow\Seven Sisters to Croydon would be a great connection for us North Londoners

[@eastlancsesteem]

What if the Victoria line was extended to Orpington? The Southeastern services to Victoria will be closed and the Victoria-Brixton viaduct will be demolished. The Victoria line will takeover the Southeastern to Orpington. The London Borough of Bromley will have tube stations for the very first time.

[@SamSitar]

some overrun tunnels are that long. can they build the Herne Hill tube station today?

[@robertnelson68]

What is so weird is that currently, I am making a map that shows the potential Victoria Line extension beyond Brixton and Herne Hill. (My map shows extensions to South Croydon ~ Mainline to Walthamstow, and a branch splitting off at Herne Hill going to Bromley North.)

[@robertnelson68]

Taking inspiration from Finsbury Park, the Victoria Line's tracks will be superimposed under the Herne Hill North Junction for National Rail. One new LMD will be located at Grove Park, I haven't decided if there should be an LMD / TMD between Herne Hill and South Croydon...

[@sianiswack633]

I like the loop idea. I cant say why, but i do

[@c0wqu3u31at3r]

East Croydon would have made perfect sense, it would be a gateway from the south of England (including Gatwick Airport and Brighton) and would have relieved some of the pressure at London Bridge

[@gorkyshaw]

I lol-ed at The Mayor's 2020 Vision :D

[@highpath4776]

" Brixton Completely" is the Midsomer village SW4 wishes it was

[@doctordeej]

The Brixton overrun could have something to do with the substation it stops by.

[@michaelcampin1464]

Moorgate had a brick/concrete wall hence the crash

[@paintedpilgrim]

I dont think a loop line would have cut it - at least not at Herne Hill. I do think there is a case for loops - look at the Kennington loop - they are useful for train movements. But in terms of extensions - let us look at other proposed and planned for routes across South London, you have one wing of the Northern Line publicly pushing for Clapham Junction (much needed in my mind and why on earth wasn't that the case when the Battersea extension was pushed through planning) the other branch of the line in Morden, then you have a vast swathe of "un-tubed" London. Look where they have the planned Bakerloo extension going all the way (eventually) to Lewisham and beyond, it would make a great deal of sense to have any Victoria line extension to head south towards Sydenham and Crystal Palace potentially leading to the closure of that small stub of Overground line in Crystal Palace with the line linking up with Croydon Trams at Elmers End with perhaps 6 stations at Herne Hill, West Dulwich, Sydenham, Gypsy Hill, Crystal Palace, and Anerley.

[@RJSRdg]

I think the reason the Battersea extension only goes as far as Battersea comes down to finance. The Battersea extension was largely funded by the company redeveloping the power station, as having a quick route to the West End increases the value of the properties. The same can't be said for a quick route to Clapham Junction, even though it would provide good connections to a lot of places.

[@paintedpilgrim]

@@RJSRdg part of that issue is the amount of work that's needed at Clapham Junction, that would need to come out of funds from both the Government via Network Rail, TfL and the train companies who use the station, it's a sticking point noone wants to be left on the hook for. There are reserved rights of way for CR2 and if they can adjust where the Overground platforms to one part if the station rather than separate platforms where they approach from opposite directions there would be room not just for the Northern line extension but additional platforms and Crossrail 2. But it would also mean redirecting lines and potentially stopping certain services during the rebuilding work. As I see it it will be a more massive version of the stoppages and platform closures that they did over christmas a couple of years ago at Waterloo.