8th Order Enclosures

[@alexandervyverman3746]

In an online world filled with self claimed "experts", it's so refreshing to see someone who actually knows and loves what he's talking about. Props man

[@CrashPCcz]

I can only add to that. This one is real :-)

[@lustmatt4]

you are absolutely correct, i dont know much about the physics of audio but this guy is helping me out a lot!! he is definitely the best on youtube if not the entire internet, makes me sad that he only has 57k followers.

[@g60force]

@@lustmatt4 well now he has double XD

[@dorianshepard6424]

instaBlaster.

[@Chrish97840]

I'm curious about the 8th order bandpass you made, do you have a link to the forum page?

[@JGott0001]

At some point, please remake your 'Counting Bandpass Orders" video from the Audio Dynamics vlog. The content is excellent but it would be great to see it redone with your improved production value (and the lack of a shaky POV camera). It would also be great if you could delve into the capacitive, resistive and reactive concepts. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!

[@A6Legit]

I liked the pov camera

[@markbushinski1198]

can you share your dayton 5" design and modeled spl?

[@psementalist]

Pete I'm always so happy and excited to see you and to be watching your KZbin videos. 👍👍👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@lazy4life207]

Aye

[@LoneWolfZ]

finally someone on youtube that can explain the "voodoo" parts of bass enclosures.

[@ElysianDreams]

About twenty years ago, I used WIN ISD software to design a 6th Order Parallel Tuned Band Pass with a Radio Shack 8 inch woofer. It was quite impressive, and I had people swear I was using a 15s in my enclosures. I still have one of the pair and currently use it for my PC sub.

[@erikbritz8095]

Roughly how gigantic would one be for a Sundown X15 subwoofer? curious cause i can only guess it would be the size of a small car hahaha

[@jtmcfarland3512]

Scouring KZbin, I can’t find a single video about designing boxes above 2nd order with the exception of 4th. I think I understand tuning frequency with port length, but is there a way to adjust the Q? How does one model this with free software or a good old fashioned calculator if necessary?

[@JM-im1iu]

I know this is an old video, and I have tried googling about more information, specifically the first style 8th order Bass reflex style box which I had never heard of before. I have seen the style where the sub is contained in the chamber (bandpass) but never one not in a bandpass style enclosure. If I get one built, how do I protect my subs from a masked clip or the group delay?

[@Drunken_Hamster]

I don't suppose you could do a free consultation for me on what box I should build and what subs I should pick with my specific budget, space, and power constraints, could you?

[@Michaeldoyle97]

Ok ok I have to ask you a question or few. I have a small light duty pickup truck that I am using to grasp on to what was my youth. In this single cab s10 I have the intentions of a sound system that is not just loud (where my issues and concerns lay), but also be very musical. Is a 8th order hybrid or a fourth order enclosure something I should continue to explore? To do this, I am very aware that I would need to put the enclosure in the bed and cut through to the cab. Now as I am trying to grasp at my youth, I am not trying to bring along the ignorance I had in tow. Before I do something crazy like this I would love some solid advice. Anything that you could add would be greatly appreciated. If you would like any additional information, feel free to contact me.

[@robertjernigan8591]

I compete in car audio... I have 4 resilient sounds 18s on 4 2ohm 8k amps... what would you charge me to design a box?

[@lilripparham296]

What could be done with all the air movement and pressure from subwoofer output? Possible involve water 💧 🤔 or metal to produce another frequency or spectical of some sort. Could it be used to create energy or a portal?? The circular shape of a voice coil has not been revolutionized yet. Square subs are funny; they have circle voice coils also 😆

[@ottobauner9828]

I'm very interested in higher order enclosures. my current issure is im interested in designing and building a series 6th order enclosure. I designed and been sucessfull in designing and building 6th order parrallel enclosures but can find verylimited info on series configurations. Mainly people saying dont do it. Which makes me want to do it more lol. Hooe you can help

[@JoshM7]

So basically sealed is 2nd order because it only has the subwoofer to radiate sound. Ported/passive radiator is 4th order because of the active driver and the passive port/radiator working together. 4th order bandpass has the active driver basically in a sealed box with a port/passive radiator on top of that. 6th and 8th are just more complex versions of 4th order bandpass. I’m probably dumbing it down but that’s my understanding of it. Or what I gathered from watching the video at least.

[@tenacious5735]

i want to design an 8th order bass reflex for a skar audio IX-10 as a fun project to see how well a cheap sub can perform in a well designed box as kinda testament to how the box if just as if not more important than the sub itself anyone got any help with this?

[@JodyM2]

I just got a M&K MX 350 Sub is it just the polarity that makes it Push Pull instead Isobaric?

[@richardrebecchi7351]

I Know this an old video but figured Id ask here since its relevant. You mentioned group delay and it makes sense to me on paper but when thinking about the way its been described to me it doesnt seem like it should change. It has been described to me as the mass of air in the port is essentially coupled to the woofer, if that is the case shouldnt the output of the port happen with woofer movement?

[@djmkrr]

A regular VLOG is returning!?!!?! I am excite!!!!

[@uptobatentertainment]

Love fabfilter plugins !!! This was cool! How does the acoustic order affect the sub’s power handling? How do you determine the correct amount of power for a sub in a ported or bandpass? I usually read about a sub in a sealed enclosure taking more power vs sealed or bandpass, can you please elaborate as to why? Also it may be good to have concrete info from an experienced designer like you to talk about on series vs parallel tuning. Just some ideas for content! Thanks for the vid!

[@googah.qq1]

hey hexi! is there any software that would help us design rather more complicated boxes such as this?

[@audiogman5865]

Is it possible to use a “free air” subwoofer to design only the front portion of a 4th order bandpass to fire into and then direct the port output to a rear deck in a car?

[@leighpetersen3947]

I need a 2 to 1 6th order box that is tuned to 25hz rear and 50hz for 2 12s. What i need is all the details to what i need to cut each board to and what ones in order to put them together. I need someome who has the ability to do so.

[@audioadhd]

What software do you use to calculate higher order cabinets and some of the crazier designs?

[@ghost-oj7fh]

Miss the vlogs. Nice info

[@thomascampbell8064]

Who gave this a thumbs down ?

[@65flashlight]

Ahhh, the knowledge (and Team Toxic Bass flashbacks). Thanks for the deeper understanding of design and how it can change the logistics of your build. Its not the gear, its having an understanding of what the gear can do. Audio tailoring.

[@andyh8239]

Do Isobaric setups sound tighter / faster / better? i.e 4 cu foot encosure on one amp (w/one driver) vs. two 2 cu foot enclosures on two amps (four drivers) I assume having four times the drivers, and twice the power to get the same spl / response curve must come with dramatically more solid & controlled results?

[@408SPLKINGS]

My wife too gets louder & louder & louder & louder & louder & louder & Poof !!!! Lol thank you Peter for yet another amazing tutorial video... Awsome & educational as always !!!!

[@bringmeyourweak]

Informative as always Pete. I concur with +Dylan Harrison. Taking into account that rooms and cars both have various sizes to them, how a larger or smaller box and design + location can all be pushed toward reaching your target sound. I think these would be great topics for vlogs. Hi Sophie!

[@andreioprescu615]

motional feedback drivers would be a nice topic to cover

[@richardtheart1584]

My new fav vids to watch...awesome ..the Yoda of sound

[@matthewdefer8215]

I have been a fan of your content for about 4 or so years. I live nearby in Tucson and my passion is car audio! I go to bed dreaming about different audio setups every night! I love your passion and knowledge of the subject. Maybe someday we will meet since you live within a hour of here. Thanks for the great videos!

[@dj4monie]

Only he doesn't live in Tucson anymore....

[@audiogarden21]

Hope you and Sophie have been doing well.

[@williamnixon4056]

I can't believe I didn't find this sooner.

[@davidperry4013]

Sealed is the best. It’s just a 2nd acoustic order.

[@planken13]

Informative information, Pete.

[@Chris-ZL]

Another excellent and informative video. It is impressive to see how your video production quality has improved so much in in a half year. Certainly redoing the previous "Counting Enclosure Orders" one for the sake of those prone to motion sickness would be a valuable contribution, even if it was just an edit with the same sound track an diagrams only.

[@christophersmith108]

I don’t know how actually useful it will be, but this channel has yet to be anything less than absolutely fascinating. It looks like I’m going to be spending the Easter break searching out the rest of your posts Thanks for your time and effort!

[@wuerzburgkids4evernever795]

I would love to see a design for a single 10

[@ryanchappell5962]

Awesome explanation, thanks!

[@kencohagen4967]

Pete, you've done it! PS Audio is advertising on your video now! Awesome! Props to ya man!

[@vilmuss149]

Hey I've done a hell of a lot of business with you over the years...and wish you would consider doing your blueprints designs again....not just under the AD brand

[@uptobatentertainment]

Check his vid before this he is doing designs again publicly whether AD drivers or not.

[@MiDnYTe25]

This is very intriguing! I'd love to know how to design these kinds of enclosures, but couldn't find anything about this niche topic. Any help is appreciated!

[@Petrezen1982]

WinISD free software allows you to design some. Have a try.

[@dannyynnad5845]

Pete! What software are you using for your enclosures?!

[@alexegus71]

Hi! Love your videos... What is the smallest 4th or 6 order 12 inch sub box I can build for the deepest bass ? For a hatchback vehicle

[@worldwideteambasscatdownri6963]

I drive an 8th order parallel bandpass

[@coolmanchiefs]

We want to see the box being built

[@shai420ful]

Amazing information sir. Subscribed. Been looking for content like this for soooo long. Keep it up

[@airwolf1337]

Question: Why are FIR or Allpass filters better for groupdelay on subwoofers?

[@Petrezen1982]

In my opinion 6th order bandpass is as sweet spot. Lower range, 2 control points and not much distortion. Only drawback in my eyes is it's size. For as compact design as possible you have to sacrifice a lot and spend huge amout of time with calculations and design for compromiss.

[@rayjay6769]

Nice to find somebody that really knows what they're talkin about in-depth! Been brainstorming for a while on what dimensions and type of cabinet that would work best for the forward cab of my Stepside bread truck. Thank you for the great educational content.

[@TimpBizkit]

I'm curious as to what a horn does with control points. It must be like a 4th order but with a port with multiple resonant frequencies or a continuous resonant range, although it takes up a lot of space to do this.

[@wow1022]

tapped horn video next

[@KaironexCryziz]

If anyone's interested in High Order Quarterwave loading PA Subs, kickbins, and tops, check out High Order Quarterwave Society on facebook, we're doing some cool new things there.

[@yepyep7036]

Sure would like to see auto/types applied with your concepts. Also would like to see Sub Box build giveaways !! ?? or at least a way to just buy some of your builds. Pretty Please Sir. :)

[@proffski]

Do you have to have that irritating banal and odious background music? ANNOYING!!!

[@theupstateangler]

Is it possible to take the guts out of an off the shelf amplified sub and make it sound better with a different style box..??? Say the Yamaha NS-SW100...!!!

[@NINEWALKING]

Btw more is not always better. This video is also overbearing with all those cuts and changing camera angles with no point or need for it. Typical syndrome of video producer that wants to be Akiro but makes something that just shows that he did not understood why and when. Wait by orders is the same thing to. More is not always better. You gain some and lose some. Higher you go more compromising things you have to accept. Sure it us louder but you can get loud with other means while things you lose you can't get back. On the end of my journey, even with subs I came to conclusions that for me any enclosure that does not have driver looking into the room (or floor with some distance to it) is not what I am looking for. That is just me. Some people just love how bandoass sounds. To be honest some proper implemented can sound impressive to. Still even then they sound slow and more often then not they hide music information replacing it with a SPL. So you can't make distinction or identify instrument making that rumble. Nice low warm rumble but not really accurate. Imagine what 8th order does then when it can't even let you hear that driver is distorting? Just mud right? Sure you can use amp with high damping and nice power rating and combined with good driver it will compensate a little but then that combo will compensate SPL or better said lack of it even in simple closed enclosure. It's is not a accident why most of the studio subwoofers come with simple bass reflex enclosure or with passive radiator. Sure cuts costs of production but also results in acceptable compromise between SQ and SPL. And nope I am not immune to complicating things either. My main speaker's I kept over all this years are still my 4 ways with 15" driver with TL tuned to 20 Hz. Honestly speaking they are 8" closed 3 ways with high pass filter set low with a 15" TL expanding lowest octaves. Great impressive sound with 0 practicality. They dwarf things in the room and block the sun. Moving from house to house makes you lose a friend or two. Plus require serious amp or even bi amping. Needless to say almost all speaker models I was selling where two way speakers. Most popular model was di apollito with one inch tweeter and two 5 inch drivers in nice big and heavy bass reflex enclosure and simple 12 dB crossover. With some tuning it was epic. 2002 it was selling for 1k Euro a pop. And then Euro destroyed the market here in the EU. Never looked back. So again more is not always better. Custom made for the purpose is mostly the best. At leat that is what I have concluded after all this years.

[@marcmathes41]

let's just be very real. I missed you man. Hope your back.

[@davidjames1684]

Not so clear on the advantages and disadvantages. What if I told you a single woofer in a ported box tuned properly is good enough for what I need, how would you then "sell" me on a higher order design? What do we have to gain (other than complexity) for something like that? So what if it gives you more "control points". Can't you just take the simplest woofer enclosure design possible (a sealed or a ported single woofer), and just EQ it to your liking? Even better, that take simple design and make it a clamshell isobarik design for even better quality sound. I don't see how and why all those vents/ports are "needed" for good sound. One can ask, what is the "limit" of that? What if you had a warehouse and made a speaker enclosure with hundreds of subchambers and ports? What good would that be? That is an extreme example but usually we can learn things from extreme examples and then choose a more practical and reasonable compromise between extremes.

[@brandonprather5390]

My head is buzzing I'ma 27 year custom car audio fabricator anyway I'm playing with the sound cubed hds2 10" Dodge guad cab box on seat wanting to do a single sub high spl with as good sq as possible what would u recommend for one sub and later a dual sub setup

[@NoSpace4Bass]

Is there any way to model/simulate all these acoustic orders? Also can you do a vid on the principles of how helmholtz's resonance ties into all the different orders? Loving these vids man

[@zod-engineering-welding]

You can model pretty much Anything with Akabak. I originally posted the 8th order equations (as they were given to me) back in 1997 on the diysubwoofers page. Very tedious, and they don't allow for any experimentation. Akabak will let you model anything you can write a script for.

[@napsterreckon9574]

@@HexiBase What did you study to get into this field of designing enclosures ? Is there a specific course one has to do to get into your field of work?

[@Steve_Just_Steve]

I wish you would go into more depth and help to point us in the right direction if we wish to take on a diy project of the topic you are discussing. Your videos are great but they just barely scratch the surface of the of the topics. It's like reading the one Wiki paragraph at the top of a Google search. It would be so nice to be able to learn enough to get started. I understand if you don't want to make hour long videos discussing every aspect of a possible build or subject, but less than 5 minutes leaves much to be desired. Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate the info you do provide, just find myself wanting more, much more every video. You've obviously have the knowledge and the ability to present it in a clear, concise manner, just a lil' too concise.

[@scottiffanimccord1509]

Not sure you are seeing this but what the heck, the project you spoke of a the 2:00 mark, Plz post a link. Thank You!

[@gerardvoughnfaust4167]

Subwoofer box seems like a muffler. in subwoofer box the more barrier it has the louder it gets, why the muffler gets silent when it has a barriers in it while the engine and the speaker are both producing sounds?

[@ramonleal7886]

I have learned that there are some class d amplifiers that happen to be quite efficient. So, efficiency in a sub box is interesting as well. Some efficient subs tend to now go very deep and typically the ones that hit the bottom notes tend to not be very efficient.

[@hortonj63]

Airspace and subwoofers. Give a nice explanation of how they truly correlate and if going bigger or smaller than recommended affects the output and logetivity of the driver?

[@Elnufo]

I would love to learn about how to design higher order types of enclosures. Sort of a basic "how to approach the topic without getting too nuts" type of video, that would be quite nice^^

[@worldwideteambasscatdownri6963]

Cheers Bro

[@sorensenscott]

I wanted to thank you for your videos. I have always built sealed boxes just out of simplicity and never looked into ported boxes because of it. I have learned a lot binging your vids the past few days.

[@tristansvaghi7675]

Live your channel.... What is that box tuning app your using?

[@hot9dog]

I love the group delay comment turning red.. haha. Great format and subject matter!

[@leonardoballoussier5997]

Nao sei se vc sabe. Sr Carlos da Rigicar está numa situação deploravel. Quase um mendigo. Anda pela rua bêbado sujo mal vestido. O filho foi chamado na casa dele pois ele saia de casa as vezes totalmente nú e defeca pela casa toda. Perdeu a sanidade mental devido a uso de crack.

[@nathaniellewis7516]

i have a 2002 325xi and want to do a sealed 15 and a ported 15 what would be the best ported box design for that

[@txmaxt]

Bring on the Petey boxes.. The new world order of sub enclosures..

[@yaghiyahbrenner8902]

I tried to make a band pass box and it failed, this was 15 years ago, it sounded like crap, I copied the concept from the bose acoustic mass subwoofer marketing. Today and many years later people like you educate me. I wont go for it as I prefer a basic sealed sub-woofer I own an peerless 12inch XXLS and it sounds fantastic I don't have to play it loud appreciate the bass, I think bass is overrated, but good bass is tough job to engineer and fit in with other speakers. By the way whats your take on the STW-350F-188PR01-04 subwoofer ?

[@yaghiyahbrenner8902]

Thanks for the update, guilty as charged I am, I recently took the exact SVS PB 2000 dimensions and used the exact OEM (peerless 12ich tymphany-835017) paired it together (with a class-d 500W amplifier) , haha (the funny part) in this wave of luck (using an existing commercial speaker model), it worked! my aim was to achieve ~17Hz and below audible bass for my movie collection example: BatMan Dark Knight Rises, and with additional signal tweaks, I'm using a SHARC DSP in my chain with custom coefficients and signal flow, part of a DSP research project, both for pleasure and science. 15 years later I have some form of knowledge, and alot of appreciation for science (on so many levels) why does enlightenment arrive so late in life. sigh, wish I had better knowledge when I was 20 something haha! I hope to see a review of a STW-350F-188PR01-04 (its an exception) I understand you guys market purely now for yourselves but this is an exception to the rule. :) Cheers.

[@goodgoat3096]

Just found the channel and it's great. Thanks for the simple and clear explanations on a variety of complicated topics. Keep them coming.

[@botdamian5688]

Paused, watching the other video, see you in few minutes.

[@ravedave513]

I really enjoy your videos, even i dont understand everything. But this video is so good explained, i understood everything... almost =)

[@douglascrosby6536]

I would LOVE a link to the project you speak of at the 2:00 minute mark.

[@scottiffanimccord1509]

Yea me too, I have looked high and low

[@joshhaimes]

Can you please comment on how much group delay is too much for typical music listening? It would be interesting to hear recordings of a driver in a low group delay enclosure and in a high group delay enclosure. eg what does 5ms vs 40ms vs 100ms sound like?

[@joshhaimes]

@@HexiBase Thanks for the reply, this is a much more specific answer than anything else I could find. Feeling fortunate to have found your channel, and I'm looking forward to seeing more from you. I also subbed to AD's channel.

[@reubengeorgemathai7329]

do anyone know any free enlosure design software to design 6th order bandpass? other than winisd

[@cartruck1070]

This answered some of the questions i had. Thank u.

[@bondarkenergy]

Good to see you back man...always enlightening

[@dragonfly-f6x]

How to optimize the listening experience for more seated positions in car ?

[@ziggy8757]

weekly vlogs

[@MrYoda1982]

What are your thoughts on a folded horn enclosure?

[@davidhansen268]

what software are you using for high order bandpasses?

[@enochwksog7039]

Where can i get a software program to build 8th orders please

[@RickDod3]

Very informative! I like it! Id love to see more videos like this one!

[@pitanu]

I have 2 15inch car audio subs and i have like 17cf´s of volume what kind of box would you recomend for spl build (GZHW 15xspl)

[@pitanu]

oh and i have vw golf mk3 so i have like 17cf in cabin aswell

[@kronosaurelius]

The linked video is so shaky I got motion sickness.

[@sickmessiah]

Would a 6th order be a good or bad idea in a recording studio. I have 20 years of experience and I am currently setting up my 4th real studio in my life. This one is starting out in a smaller room to be expanded in a few years. My other subs used in my previous room will take up too much space. Whatcha think?

[@MeatPoPsiclez]

Any higher order cabinet generally suffers from increased group delay (sealed being the lowest group delay all other parameters being constant). When combining elements of a system (monitors to subwoofer) if the group delay at the crossover point varies greatly, it may suffer from poor integration. Phase adjustments or even static delays may help. Generally higher order systems have narrower bandwidths, at least they lend themselves to that (but that isn't always a hard rule). When the group delay varies wildly inside one element, or is excessive, people often attribute that to 'sloppy' (as opposed to 'tight') response. Group delay generally becomes less noticeable the lower the frequency is, so again it's very dependent on application. Personally if I was considering a subwoofer for a reference system that was crossed over fairly high to a set of monitors, I wouldn't choose 6th order for the above reasons. If I was looking for a dedicated sub-sonic or barely-sonic subwoofer just to extend one octave in that same scenario (mating to appropriately chosen full range monitors or a more conventional subwoofer), say, adding 20-40hz, a 6th order design might fit well. But that's my opinion, and ymmv.

[@Steven---]

Ha! Those are my box pictures! I was just going to say that I built your free design years ago. I still use it in my home gym.

[@Steven---]

"Toxic Bass" I believe was watermarked on the design.

[@Willowfiasco]

Do you still have the plans? Sounds like a fun project.

[@Steven---]

@@Willowfiasco I'm sure I do. I'll have to look around on my server.

[@Steven---]

@@Willowfiasco What's your email?

[@Willowfiasco]

@@Steven--- [e-mail]

[@cantucki]

How loud they get on the meter?

[@bplail]

How do you design an 8th order bandpass? What software do you use for it? Thanks!

[@Str8GasGenetics]

Hornresp, can also make a parallel 6th order in winisd, then just make a large ported box in winisd and combine the two. You won't get a readout of the output together but other then hornresp thats pretty much your only option software wise I think.

[@bplail]

@@Str8GasGenetics oh ok thanks! I'll have a look at hornresp!

[@airwolf1337]

yo Pete, nice to see you again.

[@jevchance]

One topic of interest for me: the dynamics of a sound wave propagating through a room. Specifically, topics such phase, delay, and waterfall graphs from measuring tools like REW, and constructive/destructive wave interactions when dealing with multiple subwoofers in a room. Thanks!

[@sheldonclayborn68]

You are the man win it comes to acoustic