HiFi 3 way | An Introduction to My Next Project

This project is just starting to take shape and is very promising. The sound quality is off the charts. It uses high end drivers from Morel, Fountek, Motus, Viawave, and Scanspeak. Please give me feedback on this one as it still has lots of opportunity to go in any direction and I'm open to suggestions. Fairly stuck on the woofer and using a ribbon tweeter though. I am loving this woofer.

[@Schnippen_Schnappen1]

i am shocked this guy only has 4.7k subs. what the hell? also you should do more vids on crossover builds,explain,how,etc. thank you i do high end car audio but learned a lot from guys like you

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Thanks for the great comment. It's an obscure hobby that not many people have an interest in. Especially the technical side of it. I'd probably get more subs if I did more build videos that are stylistic. But like you, I prefer the measurements and technical side of things. New video about crossovers coming out in a day or two!

[@Schnippen_Schnappen1]

thank YOU sir! keep up the good work love your channel.@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers

[@stoklasajiri2426]

Most people buy speakers from brands only for an exhibition in the living room: P and the more it cost the better it has to play

[@Toid]

That's an impressive setup. I'm actually really impressed to see how little you have to do to the woofer.

[@PrinceWesterburg]

It would be interesting to just put a Zoom recorder or a pair of good mic in the room and play some royalty free music through them - I'd be really interested to hear the character differences between a regular midrange speaker and the domes!

[@Stingray2201]

I would love to see a midrange video! Two suggestions: 1.) Tang Band 75-1558SE 3" Textile Dome Midrange. Impressive distortion numbers. Not as smooth F.R. though. 2.) Dayton Audio RS52AN-8 2" Reference Aluminum Dome Midrange. Rule flat F.R. with average harmonic distortion. With a steep enough slope, does the 12.5 KHz resonance need to be tamed? These two with the Morel (very excited to see its numbers) and the Scan Speak will make a great shoot-out!

[@davidevans1420]

I need to purchase a pair of Tang Band 3" Dome Midrange. Any suggestions where to purchase. Thanks guys!

[@Stingray2201]

@@davidevans1420 they are no longer available at parts express so you may have to check overseas website. Check out tang band . Com to see if they have a list of distributors

[@mikeg3660]

I wonder if separating the woofer cabinet like you have done, and having another smaller cabinet for the mid/tweeter section that could be turned or moved separately… not quite like Bose sub and mini setup but something in between….

[@RCOXable]

I own raven r1, which is an old, but high quality ribbon. I talked to the manufacturer, who now makes closer to point source ribbons. One problem with ribbons is the vertical height changes the frequency response with distance. So raven used an inductor in parallel, tuned for a particular distance, say 10ft. Otherwise the frequency response increases with distance, causing a wiry sound. Also protect with a series capacitor, as the matching transformer is close to a dc short. I have blown out ribbons when amplifiers have turn on or off thumps. I am very interested in your crossover with the 5". I never could get a flat response. Salute! RC

[@jonhexom8310]

Great project, Ryan! I'm envious of it as well! Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

[@b.morris2816]

I would like to see more on this and a finished product! Love the videos, please keep them coming!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

B. Morris I have been working on them, but do need to make an updated video. Thank you.

[@jasonhoffer9017]

If all goes well, I am looking to build a pair of larger diy speakers from some schematics off the web and spending time and money to finish them off nicely. It would be nice to see you go big with an expensive design and show your steps in a series of videos. I know it is a big ask and that it cost me nothing to ask. I really enjoy your videos btw and thanks

[@noahtheviking1]

yes those dome midranges are hard to build crossovers for. But with the mid bass its just like yeah I'll just cross it at 500 ish and that should be fine then find a tweeter good for 3000 or so and blaaaaam. LOL I have done two sets of speakers with domes and yeah at high volume they do distort unless you smash it.

[@justins.1283]

Sounds like you have the time been all wrapped up if you think you need what presents for the bass and don't want to add a second driver I would consider a passive radiator

[@eng-3998]

These are going to be really nice!

[@DjRjSolarStar]

Do you believe that the Morel can keep up with a SEAS Excel 6" woofer in terms of general sound quality? I got a great deal on a pair of SEAS woofers recently, but I am considering using them in a car audio situation where off axis response is important, necessitating a 3-way with a midrange. I can't seem to find many high end 2" midrange drivers on the market however, after the MDM 55, the next price point up is Accuton at $300+, which blows my budget.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

DjKinetec yes I do. It’s pretty good. Morel does have a 2” done mid that is considered a step up from the mdm55 but I haven’t used it. It might suit you better if cost isn’t a concern. The mdm55 has been very good though.

[@Kicker700]

Morel for sure! They also come in round frame.

[@christopherjackson8958]

What 8"woofers would you suggest for an approximate 30 litre bass reflex enclosure that are easy to work with for a beginner? I'm wanting to build some 3 ways and one been told that my monacor sph210 woofers are not so great and may be better suited for PA use

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Christopher Jackson if you already have the Monacors I would probably just go with those. Otherwise check out Peerless. They make really good stuff for the money and easy to work with. Another great option is the SB Acoustic plastic frame woofers. I forget the model number but I have a pair here and they’re great for the money and beginner friendly.

[@ALTRABOS]

Also did you consider removing the back cap f your tweeter and let it remain on top of the speaker?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Marcus dahlén no, I’m not really into dipoles. Not sure the tweeter comes apart easily either. It might have a glued assembly.

[@59seank]

Any chance these will end up as a kit on DIY Soundgroup?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

59seank hopefully actually. Certainly won't be cheap in the end.

[@itamarkas]

Looks awesome! (viawave version) I might be interesting too. Any news?

[@dakken74]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers if you wouldn't mind taking a listen to a speaker project I recently uploaded I would really appreciate some feedback 👌

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

Viawave does not really need 2" midrange. Troels Gravesen in his ATiRi project is using it with 18 cm midbass driver crossing with LR2 at 2200 Hz.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Илья Основиков true it’s not needed. I used a larger scanspeak mid. But even if I had used the 2” morel it just would have meant more overlap.

[@edwardcase]

The vast majority of woofers come in at 86 dB sensitivity. Tweeters are almost always louder. The crossovers always get messy with a large disparity in sensitivity. Very good drivers you have chosen. Getting them to get along right will be a challenge.

[@sigibaes]

Please test the Dayton Audio RS52AN-8, seems like an incredible price performance mid range winner!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Sigi Baes Id love to, but don’t have unlimited funds. Maybe one day I’ll use it in something. Or beg parts express to send me a pair.

[@lambspeedpainting8307]

A whole other level. My mind is mush looking at your " crossover hookups". lmao! I wish I had your mind.

[@derekjarman1638]

Nice! Looking forward to more up dates. I would like to see test videos of the mids too.

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

Ports seem to be somewhat on the smaller side. Usual recommedation for a port size is from 1/4 to 1 of woofer's Sd. Larger ports have less noise and turbulance and less compression at high sound levels. (from "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" by Vance Dickason)

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Илья Основиков it was modelled and tested. I haven’t had any signs of port chuffing or compression at all while listening either. That rule of thumb is a bit aggressive in my experience. A 3” port can move a lot of air without issue.

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

I used 4" ports for 8" woofers. Air barely moves at port openings. Very nice! The downside is very long pipe and a pipe resonance that in my case happened to merge with one of the box standing wave modes and combined to 10 dB peak at FR. Ouch!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Илья Основиков that does sound bad! Small ports are easier to implement that’s for sure. This one was 2.5 or 3”. Can’t remember exactly but performs flawlessly. You can see my test on the woofer and the bass is outrageous.

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

I worked around that issue by lowering bass/midrage crossover requency down to 160 Hz instead of 300 that I had planned originally. Sure I should learn more about pipe resonances and standing waves prior to box building and finishing. But on the other hand the length of the port pipe really depends on a box size. Larger boxes need way shorter port tubes. My big SHARP CP-X100T floorstanding speakers with 2 x 8" (alegedly JBL Pro) woofers have pretty large (about 5") rear port that is less than 1" long.

[@davidevans1420]

Yes, the Morel MDM55 or CAM58. Thanks!

[@willmac5642]

If using the morel mid w viawave its quite hard to find a not too big woofer with decent bass and sensitivity, as the placement wont get floor gain. SB23NRXS45-4 perhaps?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Will Mac that's an astute observation and something I've been struggling with. The morel won't want to cross low enough to allow for two of the Motus woofers. I really want to add another woofer so I may be best to stick with the scan speak 15M. I really want to keep using the Motus but feel like 2 of them would be quite a bit better.

[@willmac5642]

Impulse Audio sounds like the way to go, doubling up on the motus woofers with some floor gain under the 15m would work well and be worth the expense imo.

[@Evo2Raid]

Yes to the video oh yes. Nice set up you need mono blocks to power those woofers. It would be great if you posted more on both sets or mixture of them wow what a set up to have so jealous. I like the offset on the baffle. can you hear the difference or is it just in the software.

[@IliyaOsnovikov]

Not familiar with those woofers, but 2 х 8" would sure provide more punch with less distortion and would add a feel of large scale speakers.

[@kgtaillon27]

When you run a driver frequency response test, do you use any caps on the tweeter for protection? Also, did you ever try ground plain testing outside? I noticed that you place the mic and speakers away from the ground in order to get a full frequency test. Great channel keep up the good work!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Hexaudio hi yes to both the cap and ground plane, but only sometimes. For ribbons I definitely use a cap. Most tweeters don’t need it though if using 2.8V. As for GP measurements I only do this when looking below 100hz. I show this measurement in some of my woofer tests.

[@JesemanuelRamirez]

I'm looking to build this same 3 way setup, is there any chance we could have the crossover specs. Going to be buying these a pair at a time because of budgetary reasons. Or do you sell the plans for these 3 way. Let me know please

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Jesemanuel Ramirez which one, the morel fountek or the scan speak viawave? I’m looking to clear some stuff out if you want to buy some drivers. I can give you the schematic but they were never totally finalized. Quite good though.

[@JesemanuelRamirez]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers I was looking at the Fountek and morels but if you would recommend the other pair I'm open to suggestions. My listening room is a small so I'm still debating whether I should go for 8" or 6" woofers. I still have to do some room acoustic treatment but that's further down the list of things I want to do to the system.

[@JesemanuelRamirez]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers also thanks for replying on such short notice and thank you for your time!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Jesemanuel Ramirez in a small room the fountek and morel setup would be really nice. Send me an email [e-mail] but I’m not the fastest to respond.

[@JesemanuelRamirez]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers sent

[@גדאור-ג7ע]

sorry i just look at your answer ....the woofer is next to the mid .....just under it and the tweeter is above the woofer

[@deanedgx]

Another great video. Is there a reason you go for passive speakers over active?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

deanedgx mostly for portability. I move speakers around a lot. But I like active too.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

deanedgx it can be yes. It has many advantages. But they are often overstated or phrased incorrectly. Such as “each amplifier can take control of the driver” is incorrect but “each smokier has more headroom” is correct.

[@300ZCorradoVR6Z]

I really love those Motus, wish I could afford them, but I would need at least four of them to mate with my B&C midwoofers so they're out of my price range at this time. :(

[@edwardcase]

My project, that I need to get help on, is my "Entropy" tower. Details: EBB enclosure (exaggerated bass box). 2" flared port (inside flare and outside flare) HiVi F6 woofer. Peerless 19mm soft dome neo tweeter. (NE19VTS-04) The system needs tuning. Right now I'm using a second order at 2450 Hz crossover point, just a very simple one. They are good but I know they could be better. Can you recommend a good software for generating a crossover?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Edward Case I personally like Xsim for crossover design. You could also try searching those drivers to see what other people do for crossovers. There might be some examples of that combination already because it’s popular.

[@zipman4267]

Great vid...I have been following you for a while and checked out your vid on the Fountek verses the Viawave ribbons...I like the Viawave primarily because of the sensitivity...but the price over 500 US for the pair!..ouch...have you found a similar performer for a price around 300 US a pair (sensitivity 95 db plus and sound like a ribbon!!)...is that asking to much??...thanks!

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

zipman426 thanks! I have not found a ribbon that is as small as the viawave and able to cross as low as it can. Such a beast does not seem to exist. If you can handle a taller ribbon and sacrifice vertical off axis response, then there are a few that compete well for less money.

[@TheDaniel85]

A tad late perhaps, consider the date of the video... But consider the Aurum Cantus AMT/AST AST2560 , it can be used with an open back, or semi-closed back as it's an AMT. They can cross low and sound divine, they're a tad limited in vertical respons though... They're a match made in heaven with the accuton c158.. which is more like $250 and among the best midranges I've heard next to the Scanspeak Illuminator and the often overlooked Vifa NE123 or NE149 which are reinforced paper cones with neo magnet systems, and they also sound really really niice for the price. I use them in my mains and mid and they're hard to fault... They can also cross fairly high and have a pretty nice and flat response. Only bad thing about the Accuton is the early breakup point of the ceramic, which is why the AMT is nice as it can cross nice and low... Plus it's revealing as few drivers are, the NE's are more easy to listen to. Crossovers can be a bitch though, as they have to be fairly steep and voicing is not always what simulations show. Also, my go-to driver for bass reinforcement in towers these days is the Dayton RS225, I barely even look at other drivers after using them in two designs. They're pretty smooth higher up due to phase plug and a decently dampened cone, plus they have some silly down-low extension, decent enough distortion, good built quality and sound nice and dry in ported boxes. I've yet to find a better driver for even twice the cost, granted I've not tried all drivers there is. Another driver I'm really fond of is the Fountek NeoCD 3's, it has some issues sub 3k and weird breakup at 1.5k, but it can be handled with good crossovers... I prefer the AMTs due to flexibility but they're more costly...

[@wcg66]

Is the plan to leave the tweeter and mid open baffle? I would definitely be up for a video on testing the mids. I'd like to know if you get what you pay for with Morel or Scanspeak (say versus Dayton RS series.)

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

wcg66 No they'll eventually go inside the box. But its easier to build and switch things around as need this way. Good catch. Seems there's a lot of interest in testing these so I'll do that in the next couple of video depending on my schedule. I don't have the Dayton RS dome, but will try to infer the value these midd offer :)

[@audioaficionado9494]

Ryan I'd love to see a video on those mids. Is this a project to learn more or your high-end build? If it's going to be your long term high-end main listening setup, don't skimp and go for the best drivers and as many of them as it takes. On passive crossovers, the less parts you need, the less chance of muddying up the sound. Do the pro CD/woofer setups you have been working with sound harsher than the non pro drivers you have been working with? I'm going with a pro 3-way. Beyma TPL150H + B&C 6PEV13 + AE TD15M. I'll be bummed if yours sounds lots better. Family freaks whenever I play anything over 80dB SPL. So much for those 120dB dynamic capabilities. Steve H.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Hi Steve. No the pro stuff I've used does not sound harsh. But there is another level of transparency I think is achievable from these components. Realistically though it's mostly about the aesthetics of a slimmer tower with bass down to 30hz. Just can't get that with a pro woofer. This project is sorta for me. But it likely will become a kit on DIYsoundgroup so I want to keep it reasonable. But considering it will be a high end kit I don't want to hold it back in some way. I'm leaning more and more towards another pair of woofers :D

[@audioaficionado9494]

How did that Be diaphragm CD transparency fare compared to your ribbon/mid combo? I know it's kind of an apples vs oranges thing. I get that it's nice to have a complete floor stander that doesn't need a subwoofer. I'm looking forward to how your bass drivers do on upper bass dynamics (chest thump) music. What do those drivers cost? My 3 drivers came to $900 per channel. Ouch! I wanted extreme dynamics with very low distortion. I might have over built for my modest sized house and SPL adverse family lol.

[@transpermeance1535]

Another interesting video. Looks like you have built a modern version of the 1977 Infinity Quantum 5 or Quantum 4 using modern parts and a ported woofer instead of the Dual Watkins drive woofer. Infinity used 1st order high pass for the dome and 2nd order on the dome and ribbon tweeter cross over nominally 600Hz and 4Khz on a 15" wide baffle almost like you have. The moving mass of the Motus at 36.55g is more than 10x the Morel at 2.8g and it looks like much power had to be thrown away to match the woofer's low efficiency. In higher models like the Quantum 3, Infinity used a 4.5" midbass coupler with a moving mass of ~5g to cover 200-600Hz and if you did that, then the bass could be handled by plate amp to match the rest of the system and fine tune to the room possibly using 10" to go lower. I am currently embarking on a modern version of the Quantum 3 using the Morel 55 dome and ribbon tweeter. Let me know if you want to collaborate, I am near Toronto.

[@gordiefrench5342]

i love seeing what you build and i have question about xsim new to it and how do i get a rival carbon woofer and a speak scan d2905 tweeter info that xsim needs

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

gordie french hey thanks. Unless those drivers have been measured, or someone else has measured them and can provide the files, you’ll have to trace the graphs from the data sheets. There’s a program for doing this but I can’t remember what it is. Frdtracer or something. That will make the files.

[@ALTRABOS]

Really nice I'm working on a 2 way plus sub with active crossover /dsp. Beyma tpl 200 *2 Acoustic elegance tdm15 *2 Acoustic elegance ibht 18 *1 Does anyone know a good midrange dome that would match if I upgrade to 3 way?😊

[@gino3286]

good morning thank you very much for this exceptionally interesting video. I am extremely interested in a 3-way speaker solution for my long term project. I read somewhere that 4 drivers are needed to cover the full range with conventional drivers ( i.e. no planar drivers) and that a 3 ways has some compromises. Anyway ... I have always clashed with a dilemma about the best cut frequency between woofer and midrange. I wonder what an ideal frequency could be for not having problems with the reproduction of the singers voice in particular. I was even thinking of a solution with a broadband midrange to be able to reproduce most of the voice range with the same driver. But in general it is basically about choosing either cone or dome midrange. In the market i see both solutions with cone midrange drivers more common ... maybe i am overrating the issue ? What do you think ? thanks again and best regards, gino

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

gino probably over thinking it a little bit. A cone mid with a wide range will be easier to integrate, but either will sound great once properly integrated. We do have higher ear sensitivity above 800hz than a typical 400hz XO point from a cone mid. So it’s important to make sure the XO integrates and provides quality smooth sound through the XO region, otherwise it will be easy to blame the dome mid as sounding bad. A lot of people screw up the XO then blame the drivers. I don’t agree it has to be a 4 way to cover the audible spectrum. These 3 ways cover 30hz and up. That’s good enough to me. And I certainly could design a 3 way that goes from 20hz and up with different parts. Having said that a 4 way does offer a lot of advantages. I would generally expect a 4 way to sound better than a 3 way with the disadvantage of added complexity cost and size.

[@gino3286]

@@ImpulseAudioSpeakers Hi thank you very much indeed for the very kind and helpful advice. Actually i see many high end 3 ways using mid cones and crossing them at around 120Hz. I always look at brands like Wilson Audio for instance. I understand XO plays a key role indeed on the final result. And yes 30Hz are more than enough in a home set-up. Thanks a lot again. Kind regards, gino

[@karlmuller1976]

How's the life s5 sounding? really looking forward to hearing the review. great vids. awesome stuff

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

karlmuller1976 they sound great. Really love listening to music at my desktop. More info on them will be coming.

[@karlmuller1976]

Impulse Audio sweet! can't wait. interested in the bass response on a small closed box. Most designs seem to be ported or have a passive radiator.

[@גדאור-ג7ע]

i wonder i dont think anyone said any thing about it///is does the tweeter has to be placed next to the midrange in a 3way speaker ? or can it be woofer in the middle tweeter up and mid under the woofer..... thanks

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

גד אור the woofer really does need to be next to the midrange or there can be massive interferences as you move off axis.

[@גדאור-ג7ע]

ok thanks i just need to say i dis some rta messurments and it looks good even like i did it but your the pro so ill think about it and how to m,ove it

[@MarcelOoms]

Scan speak 12mu for mids, any thoughts on these vs morel?

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Marcel Ooms i hadn't considered that one, probably due to cost. It is expensive and not much sensitivity, but worth looking at closer. I feel like the cost will hold me back but its a good suggestion. I'll search the web for other reviews and see. Thanks.

[@DXCal09]

Impulse Audio I would love to see a test video of the Scan speak. I just got them an am interested in how they measure

[@kevini5043]

3 ways can be improved by having more than just 2 dudes...(sorry couldn't help it). I would love to see the entire process from concept to design to testing/measuring, refining and finish. As a newb it would help me identify my where i need to focus my efforts. enjoyed the vid as always!

[@ДмитрийКузнецов-п8ч]

It would be interesting to see Scan 15M test video.

[@DXCal09]

Дмитрий Кузнецов Same +1

[@skandiaart]

You should look into AudioTechnology drivers and or sb acoustic satoris but I doubt you don’t know them already

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

SkandiaArt Yes I am aware of them. They’re not cheap though!

[@skandiaart]

Yup but their distortion :o, also a pair of viawaves costing ~500$ isn't cheap either. I would also look into Seas drivers, I have used those multiple times and they can be had for cheap (prestige series) and sound awesome, but those might not be avaible in your country.

[@teeevon]

plus 1 for the morel testing video

[@maqupaqu]

BG Neo planars?

[@scottdietrich3559]

Try 2 JBL 2118h and 1 JBL 2202 bullet Tweeter sounds awesome with no x over on 2118 and 18 db on bullet super effeceint

[@porkchopspapi5757]

Here's my question. Why are you still building crossovers instead of just say, mini dsp? I'm sure you have a good reason.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Porkchop's Papi I use both. But passive is really convenient. I do have a project coming where I’ll use a mini dsp. A 3 way using an AE 15” woofer.

[@porkchopspapi5757]

Impulse Audio I've never used a dsp but from what I understand it seems it would be much more convenient, quicker & easier than hard crossovers. Please clue me in.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Porkchop's Papi I’ve done it both ways many times and I don’t find dsp really any faster. All the same steps are required to test, design, etc the XO. The only difference is the capability dsp affords. It’s a better XO once you’re done. But getting there is the same process.

[@porkchopspapi5757]

Impulse Audio So, instead of buying a new dsp for each new speaker build, you only have to buy crossover components, & attach them? I'm sorry to be so thick, & I know you have other things to do.

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Porkchop's Papi that’s certainly a challenge. I think the most convenient thing about passive is that you just hook up the speaker with two wires. Anyone can do it. For a permanent setup active is nice but you have more amps to turn on and off. So that’s kind of annoying. I just like the simplicity of passive. But active is better if that isn’t a concern.

[@HowDareYouu]

yes go wild with 2w

[@drdyna]

Build a 4 foot waveguide for that dome mid :D

[@scottlowell493]

Morel makes very good drivers, but scan speak is better.

[@insulter4625]

Hello from Russia! Happy new yeaR, my fRiend!

[@dakken74]

If you don't mind taking a listen,,,I recently uploaded a video of a speaker project I just finished,,,some feedback would be much appreciated.

[@dreamdiction]

2:17 You burdened the tweeter with a 4th Order crossover to get a flat response, but measuring the output of any speaker at a given frequency tells you NOTHING about what that speaker sounds like at that frequency. Some of the best sounding speakers in the world have a ragged uneven freq/spl graph line. Dump your computer testing and start using your ears !

[@ImpulseAudioSpeakers]

Dream Diction as mentioned in my other comment, I use testing to guide me and help discern what I'm hearing. It's quite silly to think I don't use my ears. Let's please respect each other in our comments here and if you don't like what you see there are many other options available on youtube. Thanks.