His Mass cyclone is IMBALANCED?

[@robert.valencia]

" 'You need assistance for the Carriers in the form of Carriers.' - Harstem 2022" - Harstem 2024

[@christopherdizon3649]

Came here to say this lol

[@robert.valencia]

​@@christopherdizon3649Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and he recorded this last year he's still off by a year haha.

[@hipser]

I was like where am I. who am i

[@anthonyvillalpando1694]

lol Hartsem called it perfectly on the Disk pregame evaluation. The pscyops is strong with this one!

[@zes7215]

wrr

[@LadyEmilyNyx]

The way that MMR is calculated, you need a decent number of players around the same MMR, in order to go up. Otherwise you're always playing people of much lower MMR, where you lose a LOT for a loss, but gain almost nothing for a win. Happens with chess ELO too. You can win 100,000 fights against toddlers, and you're still going to be someone who can only beat toddlers. To get better, you need better opponents.

[@XaviXDJoR]

This, there have to be more people playing on your MMR to be able to climb more, otherwise you are just stealing points from each other without any real progress and nobody can get out to 7k (only serral apparently)

[@trentostgaard]

To add to this, generally the more players there are in the system the higher the mmr ranges will go, during covid pretty much every game and video out there was getting more attention due to people not being out of their homes as much.

[@chir0pter]

I would have hypothesized that there’s more Koreans playing on EU nowadays since the center of the scene has shifted more to Europe, and they are deflating EU MMR

[@psychaoticproductions3994]

Yeah, it's straightly connected to player count. Game is old, and even if you're following channels like this for a while, you can notice Harstem is playing same people over and over again. Like guy above said, in order to climb you need more players around your MMR. And that's simply not the case anymore

[@shootzmcgootz5894]

Hi Captain! Happy New Year (of Harstem)! Thanks for keeping us entertained, I think you'll win a couple big tournaments this year!!!

[@Laiwinsh]

Your ability to do standup comedy while playing pretty intense games is both highly entertaining and admirable!

[@AnatolyKern]

Love the way you show snippets of the reaction from the other side. I wonder what kind of understanding of the game you can get if you combine two streams of both players together, split side by side on a big enough screen and with audio channel separation (one player left, another - right channel)

[@shadowdwelling222]

I think mmr systems tend to experience “mmr inflation” at the top when the overall amount of players increases maybe the opposite is also true and with less active people on the ladder the top players have their ratings go down some amount.

[@xalarp]

I love how always the point of comparision is Serral 😂

[@Cormalek]

It's how we reached peak SC2. Normally, an answer to any inbalance questions would be that except for maybe 1-3 people at the absolute peak of skill, anyone below that top, top tier loses because they suck. There might be imbalance, but except for the chosen few who get to play opponents that may actually play perfect game too, you lost because you sucked too much. But every time Serral (the best player in the world whose very NAME hits harder than "Bonjwa") loses - he says it's because he sucked. And thus, we've reached Nirvana. Well, we potentially reached the peak SC2, but Bobby Kotick decided to fire a few safety rounds in form of new ToS into the decaying body of the e-sport that Bobby has kept in gimp-suit in the basement maze while he pretended to the neighbours that Call of Duty is in fact their only child.

[@marcoeisenberg4337]

MMR is organized like a pyramid. Shrinking player base means the top of the pyramid is lower, since they lack players to drain MMR from. The prove to this is easy: Imagine a world where just two SC2 players are left who only play each other. Obviously non of the two would ever reach 7k MMR

[@Gammawatt]

Wonderful video! Thanks for sharing your content Harsty!❤

[@parrotsticks]

While I'm no Heromarine, there's something big I notice in that game, and I have no idea how this could not be a relevant point: Both of them have 4 upgrades in a fight towards the end. Heromarines upgrades all apply to every single one of his units. Harstems upgrades apply 2 to one third of his units, 2 to another third, and none to the remaining third. If we roll all the attack and defence upgrades into one value and spread them across each whole army, the Terran army is all +4 units and Protoss is more like +1.3 overall.

[@chir0pter]

Disk’s match history was in Harstems head from the start lol. Also how good are stasis wards especially in combination with a dark shrine vs toss.

[@mothrahlurker788]

Dark shrine and stasis don't really combo.

[@zes7215]

wrr

[@chir0pter]

@@mothrahlurker788 they do if you use them opposite sides of the map. Requires a heavy investment into detection to counter

[@martinwinther6013]

I swear.. The Cpt, Mr Winter.. and mebbi Lowko. That triangle is the freaking pinacle of SC2 commentary. and one is even a good player,, yes, its you Mr Cpt..

[@mozzarella-sc2]

Always great content and analogies. ❤

[@Henour]

Your MMR theory seems plausible. In other games blizz used a MMR system in the past where average MMR would drift slightly upwards over time, and that would happen faster the more people played. If it's the same for SC2 a slightly smaller playerbase could mean the maximum MMR players can reach would be lower now than a few years ago. Even if they have the same winrate.

[@disconnect7]

Dude, yours videos make me download sc2 and start playing again. I don't know for how long i will manage to play, cause sc2 feels so fast paced game for me. But i hope i will get 4k MMR or above this time.

[@miza6]

try the co-op mode. its a good time when you don’t feel like laddering

[@pickles6981]

​@@miza6i love co op mode

[@nu4chune]

That was pretty much perfect at the beginning@

[@sc2youtube744]

New cyclone is so annoying. I would love to hear the details of how this got approved in the balance council. Literally no one was asking for this

[@marcinnowogorski]

Time to fill the IMBA form, Harstem ;)

[@ghostghost3677]

I think that when it comes to mmr, when the player base reduces in size, its harder to get more points.

[@Not_Mercy637]

And you proxied him

[@real_MacrocosM]

Yup. Even as a Terran player, i can say the cheap massable reactored cyclone is just broken for worker kills in the early game now. The 'new' lobotomised cyclone is just the dumbest, most soulless thing now. The cyclone _regression_ has stolen the fun of being able to focus fire certain targets when multiple are still in range, due to the insta/auto lock on w no cool down. It has stolen the micro potential of the pick-up breaking the lock on - which was half the fun of the achievement of learning how defend them with micro - and totally removed the skill-test of creatively keeping vision for a mag field lock on. It's basically just a faster, more expensive marine/marauder that can fire while moving - Slow clap. I hope and pray this awful situation is rectified in a coming patch. Nerf the max range to 10/11, sure go wild, but we beg the 'balance council': Give us back our intelligent, specialised, tech-lab cyclone w mag field. For the love of Aiur.

[@byronswain7569]

Would it be harder to get to 7k if there are fewer players total?

[@kaiser2261]

Yes. New players come in and boost everyones MMR. If it was only pros playing on the ladder the average pro would be plat.

[@ekoostic]

classic "early robo" harstem

[@TakeControl1337]

Should have kept building immortals instead of disruptors, that way they cannot swarm and focusfire the carriers. Good game still!

[@gamble9437]

I think the number of players that can take games off the top guys is more now than it has ever been. Combine that with loosing a ton off mmr vs winning very little mmr against lower ranked players means only serral can maintain 7k+ as he barely ever looses.

[@mylucyrk]

I thought the cyclones attack was actually a spell, so it ignores armor. I thought armor upgrades were useless against cyclones, no?

[@siliablackfame5771]

That is no longer the case. Armor upgrades currently work against cyclones

[@XaviXDJoR]

I get what you mean about the losing streak on ranked matches. It feels awful, like your skills are gone and you don't understand the meta. Happens to me playing LoL (can't play StarCraft, too bad for it) and your mental is falling off a cliff without parachute until the last game that is the worst loss of the day and is entirely your fault.

[@Saberwulfy]

Sad, immortals was grinding more than 1 cyclone per second while carriers was free behind immortals.

[@dogfoot1874]

DT blink/void ray/zelot 2 base all in to gm

[@patrickcampbell957]

I don't really know how the MMR system works but, I think that 7k being harder to get would have to do something with the amount of players playing total. This is because a new player is the only way the total MMR of all players changes... right?

[@MC_Deamonking]

Who also clicked, expecting to see a iodis, but then stayed for the great gameplay anyway?

[@tititiwon]

I feel the same way. One small mistake and you lost the game

[@paulmualdeave5063]

The disruptor's failed

[@DobroSC2]

1 MMR on hugh avarage sank due to the fact that cheaters were banned and their mmr just disappeared from overall pool. 2 Some players left their barcodes or just entire game. less people=less mmr pool

[@JFox4587]

They need to slightly decrease the cyclone’s firing rate. Just like 5%ish. This would really impact them late game when upgrades are so important, and keep them from being massed, while still allowing them to be cheap and useful in the early to midgame. This would also make a change at all levels of play, which is drastically needed

[@dogfoot1874]

Could you explain in more detail your thesis?

[@kaiser2261]

Just revert it…im a Terran that doesnt like the new meta.

[@DirtyBeatzMusic]

no. they need more range

[@JFox4587]

@@dogfoot1874 the faster a units firing rate, the better a +1 attack is because each shot is impacted. The more units, the better an upgrade is (obviously). So if you were to slow down their firing rate, this would make a ship weapons upgrade less impactful and make kiting less damage per kite that you did. And if you just mass cyclones, this would severely affect the game. Im guessing somewhere between 4% and 8%, but you’d need to lab it and test versus a bunch of units to know.