History Buffs: Apocalypto

[@Volnas97]

Man, dude was being chased through that jungle for 600 years? What a legend.

[@danielcruz7633]

😂😂😂

[@jeffpostman9928]

History buffs is correct that the Maya abandoned most of their big cities during the post-classic period, however according to the Spanish, wealthy Mayan cities and marketplaces still existed when they arrived. So it's a bit of a leap to say "city + famine HAS to mean classic Mayan civilization".

[@patchess5488]

I choose to accept this scenario as the truth thank you for this

[@SkyeID]

Two words: worm hole. That's the only way that this makes sense.

[@jeffmyers9696]

Well done, sir!

[@sasha6454]

You don't get it? The chase scene just took 600 years, duh.

[@PedroGonzalez-ub9dl]

😂😂😂

[@MrDoob-xo3sm]

HAHAHAHA

[@lsdesignweb]

DAAAAAAAA obviously Apocalypto is a Sci-fi Time travelling portals in the jungle movie!!!! XD

[@ozielreyes2777]

😂😂😂😂😂 this made me laugh hard broo

[@FoxyBoxery]

Lmfao, the more i think about this, the funnier it gets 😂🤣😂 Just imagine: Lets say these dudes start the chase in 950 AD, ok? So: 962 - Holy Roman Empire is being established. These dudes still chasing each other 1066 - The battle of Hastings. These dudes still chasing each other 1215 - Declaration of Magna Carta. Dudes still chasing each other 1315 - The great famine. Dudes still chasing each other 1337 - The hundred years' war. Dudes still chasing each other 1348 - The Black Death. Dudes still chasing each other 1378 - The great Schism. Dudes still in the woods, chasing each other 1456 - The Ottomam Turks enter Europe. The Balkans are being enslaved. Dudes still chasing each other 1460 - DaVinci is already inventing planes amd tanks and golden ratios. Dudes still chasong each other. 1492 - Columbus arrives on the Carribeans and finds an entire new world. Dudes still chasing each other in the jungle. Its finally 1500 and the Spanish are allready colonizing America. Good guy gets shot by an arrow in the chest and him and the hunters go on the beach and see the Spanish arriving The End

[@mikethomas2191]

For what it's worth, the movie is absolutely visually stunning and really intense. So even though it's totally worthless from a historical stand point, its a very entertaining watch

[@ElectrikArguement]

I wouldn't say totally worthless. A lot in the film was accurately portrayed. HOWEVER, (like this video explains) it all happened at DIFFERENT PERIODS in history. Not on the same timeline. Yes, parts of the film are a mixture of several periods, but still happened nonetheless. And as you stated, still cool to see.

[@chrisheidt1836]

I liked it too, too bad it was historically incorrect tho!!!

[@m.b.k3199]

@@chrisheidt1836 I totally agree with you 👍

[@worldfamoustarot8443]

Spiritual stand point . Make fear, fear you. 😤

[@nigelT16]

Exactly, thank you!

[@MontanaCheeky]

Historic accuracy? No. A master class in film pacing? Hell yes.

[@ian.swift.31614]

yeah its too bad they didnt have them chop off the hands and feet before they threw the body down the pyramids. that wouldve been historically accurate.

[@ian.swift.31614]

and the letting the prisoners run away as they shot arrows at them was goofy. but other than that there's not too much.

[@weltschmerz333]

@@ian.swift.31614 why

[@ian.swift.31614]

@@weltschmerz333 watch the movie with the optional director+producer commentary audio track on sometime. they talk about these things. also it's clear that the scene where they have jaguar paw and his buddies run away as the aztecs fire arrows is invented for the movie because the director and producer not only say that but they also say theres no historical evidence of it ever happening. they say there IS historical evidence of aztecs tying their prisoners up to poles in arenas like that and then using them as live targets because young warriors need to know what it is like to put an arrow into a live human. but there's too much risk in allowing them to run like that, without having a crew waiting in the bushes to trap any potential runaways.

[@DonAbrams-hq7ln]

Never saw so many "blue bodies" Looks ĺike the killing fields of Cambodia without the green plastic bags.

[@TheSkyrimmaniac]

Nobody Expects the Spanish Time Travelling Conquistadors.

[@Kashchey1]

underrated comment.

[@chaosherald8879]

This is gold, mate!

[@condorboss3339]

Do they have Johnny Depp with them? If they don't they're not the real Spanish Time Travelling Conquistadors.

[@CheeWaiLee1972]

I cracked up when the Spanish showed up :P

[@PauloGarcia-sp5ws]

Nobody expects the Spainish Inquisition !

[@aaroncarson1770]

It was never my understanding that the main characters were Maya. They were supposed to be a random jungle tribe that was captured by the Maya.

[@captaindestruction9332]

Exactly. I was actually kinda surprised this was a issue or confusing to people. Especially people who actually watched the movie. By the end of the movie its crystal clear they weren’t Mayan and had no real contact with the Mayans.

[@dantakeoff]

eXACTUMUNDO

[@ludwigvan3649]

The Problem is: Why do they speak Mayan than? Because they do.

[@aaroncarson1770]

​@@ludwigvan3649 It's not that unusual for there to be a cultural difference but a linguistic similarity. Cree, Ojibwa, Miqmaw, and Innu all Speak Algonkian, but are not synonymous with the Algonquin tribe. The narrator is correct here, that I think they used Maya to create an overall impression of authenticity, but given that Maya is still taught in schools in Mexico, it was probably just an easier indigenous language to learn, or perhaps the actors already knew it. More irksome to me was the realisation that Gibson had lifted a lot of the ritualistic elements from Juan Mora Catlett's "Return to Aztlan" which was an Aztec movie. Apocolypto had struck me as rather Aztec seeming when I saw it as well. It's true that the characters are speaking Maya, and even one captured lady prays to Mayan Moon Goddess Ixchele to pretect her children, but I think the creators were assuming that the audience would not realise or care that it was Maya they were speaking. It was my impression though, that even in the context of the film narrative, this captured tribe was intended to be distinct though.

[@ollybear13]

@@aaroncarson1770 educate these fools

[@lelamartin6678]

When I first watched Apocolypto, I thought it was all about the Aztecs, not the Mayans...

[@lepmuhangpa]

Exactly, me too.

[@flaminak7894]

Same😭😭

[@changoburr7136]

Yea i thought it was the aztecs who captured the villagers and that the villagers weren’t mayan

[@simdoughnut659]

Yep, same. I assumed all along it was the Aztecs and not the Mayans, and the villagers were some other tribe altogether. Nothing about this movie screamed Mayan to me.

[@tlaloc27]

@@simdoughnut659 nothing about it scream aztec either

[@raghplays7401]

Ive read somewhere (maybe Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History) that perhaps 90% of those that died of spanish-introduced diseases, actually died without every seeing the Spanish. The diseases perhaps spread along the internal trade routes of the Mayans.

[@Dang3rMouSe]

This is very true. All European explorers knew it was essential to bring along LOTS of gifts & trade goods beyond just the samples for establishing potential future trade routes. This was to help ease the minds & create friendly rapport with any kings, leaders or groups they might come into contact with as well as to help cross the cultural & language barriers. Unfortunately some of the gifts & trade items (like quilts & blankets) likely carried the small pox virus. Due to the lack of prior generational exposure like ppl from the Old World the virus completely ravished their populations with estimates of up to 90% dying in the 1st waves. These are Black Death rates of death... The spread was documented by both the surviving groups in the New World & the freaked out European explorers who were losing men to it too but at a much lower percentage overall. They said the pox had caused a total epidemic & was moving along the well established trade routes faster than they were traveling. It completely ended some kingdoms that were failing due to population collapse. They documented traveling to major kingdoms only to find some completely abandoned with the locals living tribally. Now I've heard some pseudo-historians try & claim this was done intentionally. This is inarguably false. At the time this happened Europeans still incorrectly believed in the 4 humors & that illness was spread by "bad air." They did not understand how the pox spread. They were also very good with documenting their unethical intentions, planning & their reasoning but it was never mentioned. In fact we don't see anyone mention trying to intentionally give a native population small pox till over 300 years later after the establishment of America & an understanding or better understanding of viral spread was established. In a letter an officer made the highly immoral suggestion to a superior that in order to deal with a local tribe giving his area trouble they could gift them blankets used by ppl who died from small pox. We don't know how his superior replied but hopefully he rejected the cold blooded idea.

[@sc3304]

Yeah, if there was trade between Spanish Cuba, Hispanola and the mainland - the disease could have entered earlier than when the conquistadors arrived.

[@gsimon123]

This is exactly what I was hoping someone would point out. Also, history buffs is mad saying the spanish hadn't arrived yet - but the movie doesn't ever suggest they haven't already arrived before. In fact, the spanish left and came back at one point. This could be their second arrival and so the girl 100% could have small pox.

[@crazyneonate8626]

@@gsimon123 Thanks, I wanted to pointing that out too, also I always felt the little girl was not to be taken literally, she's a bad omen, maybe even a demon.

[@prestonlambert9992]

@@gsimon123no this doesn’t make sense. This is too early for even the Spanish to exist. That’s what he’s pointing out that she can’t have small pox because no Europeans have made it to the America’s yet.

[@PointedHeels1]

I always got the impression the village we see wasn't supposed to be specifically a Mayan village, just a small local tribe. And them speaking the same language isn't that weird, different groups and cultures often speak the same language when in close proximity.

[@juancaminante8078]

Great point.

[@7elevenqt]

That's exactly what I thought. To my knowledge, there were other neighboring tribes that weren't necessarily Mayan, but I could be wrong

[@pemaap5727]

exactly

[@zacharyolenick1054]

yeah its like in Senegal, a lot of them speak their own tribal language but the vast majority (or at least a very good chunk) speak French and Wolof as well.

[@Duergantia]

Yeah that's what I always thought as well. I thought it was obvious by the fact that they were so blown away upon entering the city, suggesting they were a remote tribe with no knowledge of a greater "civilization".

[@LAKXx]

Say what u will but the cinematography in this film was absolutly amazing

[@David-cm4ok]

And, who gives af about historical accuracy in Hollywood films?

[@David-cm4ok]

@@connorbranscombe6819 Pedants. That's you, and all your friends Connor, and Nick, and his subscribers. That's who cares about historical facts in films made for the recreational enjoyment of the masses. Edit. Lmfao.

[@MrRecrute]

@David, because that’s where many people get their history ... from the movies.

[@mina7572]

@Lord Kevolo Uh... have you seen the trailers for this film? The "masses" most certainly did not go to see this film for a history lesson.

[@ThanatosOrphe]

No.

[@lp291]

Everybody gangsta until time traveling conquistadors show up

[@JavierReyes-vi7vj]

@@markdavis7397 source?

Javier Reyes well just use common sense. They’d only need to encounter 1 random non-famous European explorer - not the entire expedition lol Christopher Columbus might’ve been the first European to Officially find the America’s, but it goes without saying that someone likely did it before him already.

[@JavierReyes-vi7vj]

Frank Lucas So out all all the tribes and the entire region, this one tribe is one of the few to encounter disease? Look, I get that could be a reason, but it’s not the most likely, and if there can be an argument made against it, then why even have it in the movie? Why not have a disease that was already native to the region? So it makes sense if you try to rationalize it but it also doesn’t

[@solesurvivor5]

@@markdavis7397 keep in mind that native tribes were devastated by such diseases, this movie takes several hundred years before the conquistadors had arrived, if disease like that had already existed then the native tribes would have already been devastated before they arrived, or they would have already been found medicine to counter it, keep in mind that the fact that they didn't have medicine at the time gave those who came across the sea a great advantage when colonization began, so if those diseases had already been present at a large scale then history would be very different. Mel Gibson is a huge religious nut, my bet is that he wanted to displaced the blame to put the god worshiping conquistadors in a better light, why else would he have them come in at the last moment and have them save the day.

[@jackbartholomaus6510]

@ This movie definitely takes place in 1511

[@PotatoJonson]

The sick girl was meant to be a symbolic glimpse of their doomed future.

[@phobos451]

it also can be historical. for there was already spanish visitors in hispaniola. disease could be spread from hispaniola

[@blitzr2300]

The sick issue is not absurd, Europeans had sporadic contacts in Yucatan and other places before their expeditions, aside this, it is a movie not a documentary or a history book.

[@shannon007]

That's what I took it as too! Like an omen of the future plague the Spanish would bring as a part of 'the apocalypse'

[@CrazyTrain-k2j]

I studied Mayan and Andean remains in Oaxaca. Signs of pox appear prior to Spanish contact.

[@RedMageUltra]

The answer is simple: the conquistadors were sailing in the correct timeline until they went into the Bermuda Triangle and thus, were transported 600 years earlier. Just one of the many strange supernatural occurrences of the natural world

[@Bakrain]

That's becuase they sailed thru 'El Caribe.' The Spanish Main. It's the land of voodoo, hoodoo and all kinda weird shit.

[@DivineKnight_115]

so this is a pirates sequel we never saw. Captain Salazar just went back in time then???

[@pkheretic1945]

BMT115 PotC: endgame

[@paulnottherealmccartney8558]

Send magellan back

[@cnlbenmc]

666 likes, hmm.

[@oldplace5]

History Buffs: “Nooo it has to be historically accurate!” Mel Gibson:”Haha Spaniards go splish splash”

[@dragonbones3885]

@@Comical1984 Mel Gibson should just made it about Aztecs or set it after the Aztecs fell since the Spaniards were interacting with the remnants of the Mayans in the 16th century

[@McFlick5150]

Sax Beat Mel Gibson just acted in The Patriot. He didn’t write (Robert Rodat) or direct it (Roland Emmerich). He didn’t even produce it. So he had no say in the creative process other than how he acted.

[@isyraf9989]

Well there is alternate history that Muslims Iberia colonise america

[@detrockcity3]

@@dragonbones3885 yeah this is a case of trying to put everything in, I think, and so the lack of focus creates far more problems than benefits accrued from all the inclusion. There was enough with just the Aztecs, and the simple story can obviously be worked into almost any civilization or time period.

[@detrockcity3]

@@isyraf9989 lol

[@wyldetimesreviews]

That ending is just: "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

[@alexcore697]

I thought they were Vikings

[@tacolepaco]

@@alexcore697 Well you sir are rather dumb.

[@bloodink9508]

Yeah, but what a show.

[@suwusybaka4063]

@@tacolepaco Christian Viking

[@somefuckstolemynick]

Haha, yeah I thought the exact same thing

[@TheBreechie]

Mel isn’t known for his adherence to history, nor does he claim it but his films are visually spectacular!

[@Tea-rettes]

As well as borderline insulting to every cultural group they depict. Especially when he injects his personal opinions into it, such as rabid Christianity and distaste for the English (and for a decidedly more oppressed people that I won't name. You know the one.).

[@buffbatman2]

Im not sure his vision isnt closer than you think. They really werent that impressive.

[@Joe-kv6tk]

@@Tea-rettescry bout it + British people are terrible

[@jmz2144]

​@@Tea-retteslol no

[@RoscoPColtrane17]

@@Tea-rettesI think you are confusing the oppressed vs oppressor narrative. Mel understands this, like the majority of the non western world understands.

[@anonymousy8882]

I think the smallpox scene was a sign that of European contact. Since the Europeans first went to explore Yucatan before setting sail out to conquer the bigger cities. So the final scene were the Spanish arrives, would not be a scene depicting their first arrival, but rather an indication that the natives societies soon would be conquered.

[@bigj1905]

Sure, but as Nick points out, this movie takes place during the Classical Mayan collapse, which happened during the 8th-11th centuries, hundreds of years before Europeans arrive.

[@Vladimir_Fedorov27]

@@bigj1905 tbh, I allways assumed these all were Aztecs. These are obviously Mayan cities, but didn't Aztecs use at least some of them? - they clearly were very mutualy culturally influenced, and these are some good cities fully intact it good condition. So bsically the main movie problem as I see it - they LOOK LIKE the Mayans in their day-to-day life, but everything else is explained if we assume these are Aztecs. The collapse situation too, like, this deforestation-bad crops cicle was not unique, it was and mosly is the way, Ucatan ecology works. Surely Aztecs would face the same issue - and find the same f-ed up solution.

[@mr.c.3760]

Exactly, this youtuber got so many points wrong. The Europeans had already been In North America for many years at this point before the Spanish discovered the mayans. Cuba was already conquered before Mexico was even considered for conquest

[@cedricrenaud5657]

@@bigj1905 On wikipedia it says the movie takes place in the year 1502.

[@sebastianmanthey742]

​@@mr.c.3760 There are things happening in the movie that happened around the 11th century. So, which europeans were already in North America at that point in time? The problem with the movie is, that it takes a time period of several hundred years and crams it all in one movie and one specific point in time. Its like making a movie about the rise and fall of rome and its all Ceasar, ruling for a thousand years, like a guy playing Civ6.

[@alfredstimoli2590]

I never thought the villagers were Mayan. I thought they were attacked, kidnapped and the sacrificed by Mayans.

[@servandopereira3482]

No, they were different Mayan countries or states, some of them more powerful and developed than others

[@thenablade858]

@@servandopereira3482It’s never specified that they are Mayans. Jaguar Paw’s tribe is unnamed. While they could be affiliated with the wider Mayan civilization, that’s just an assumption.

[@servandopereira3482]

@@thenablade858 Oh, reallyyyyy? If they’re speaking Mayan, well then, they’re french

[@Youtube_is_Trash]

Not really though. Quebec Canada are French speakers and they're not French, plenty of African countries use french too, they're not French. More importantly, plenty of French people living in France are not speaking french, they're speaking Norman, Corse and Basque, to name a few. Yet, they're Frenchier than any non-French french speaker.

[@servandopereira3482]

@@KZbin_is_Trash Most stupid answer ever

[@PhoenixRiseinFlame]

I think a lot of the historical issues would have been resolved if they chose to focus on the Aztecs as opposed to the Mayans.

[@zamorano18x92]

I think its not even such a big deal. Im just hoping I will never watch a movie like the maker of this video does. it does not sound enjoyable. somebody should tell him he did not watch a historical documentary but a movie...

[@zamorano18x92]

apart from that I think a lot of people who did not even know the real difference between mayan and aztec made recherches after watching the movie. so it actually had a good side effect. people who are lazy to look things up and get their historical view through movies by mel gibson should anyways reconsider their sources..

[@jongon0848]

When I first saw this film with my dad, we were both under the impression the focus was on the Aztecs, especially because of the human sacrifice scene, the emphasis on jaguars, and the conquistadors arriving.

[@speedslider3913]

@@zamorano18x92 You're not a history buff, so you don't have to worry about seeing movies differently, but he has a point. This movie's history is false and misrepresents the Mayans, but most people get their history nowadays from movies, so they're being misinformed about a important part of civilization's history. It may not be a documentary, but if you're gonna be set in a different time period, it's important to represent it accurately and not just make it whatever you think it should be, unless the whole point is to not be what that time period was. Plus, some of the stuff just doesn't make sense, like one Mayan tribe being advanced while the other's primitive, and they somehow never meet each other for years.

[@cbiaplus8218]

@@zamorano18x92 same guy who wouldn't care about historical accuracy would lose his shit if in a movie people celebrated moon landing in the 30s or a movie set in the 50s had a car from the 80s or if a movie set in the 90s had a ps5.. which taken how ridiculous those examples sounds this movie is 100 time worse just because you don't know history it doesn't matter to you and it doesn't bother you

[@D00MerJohn]

With the Smallpox it's entirely possible that the girls mother had exposure to Europeans somehow, it's not explicitly stated that the ship seen at the end of the movie was the absolute first contact.

[@ngruhn]

Wanted to say the same. Also, as far as I learned the diseases conquered the continent way faster than the Europeans themselves. To the point that whole villages where eradicated without ever having contact with any white people.

[@Smile4theKillCam456]

Moreover, it’s not told at all that this movie pertains to the 900AD collapse. I usually like this channel, but this video felt pretty weak.

[@Pedro76mchlkg]

Agreed, this youtuber missed the whole point of this movie. Too much bias against Mel Gibson, and we know why.

[@mjp152]

My sentiments exactly - the backdrop of the movie is clearly an ongoing apocalypse underlined by the city-dwelling natives have become decadent. The reviewer was so eager to dump on Mel Gibson that this is entirely lost on him.

[@tomasgonzalez9356]

Come on dude! Stop hating on Mel…

[@menagerieorganization4820]

Why it's simple my friend, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition

[@isaacgray2909]

Time travelling Spanish Inquisition? That's legit.

[@thelegendofjacko7063]

Lol i get it XD

[@thelegendofjacko7063]

I love Monty Python

[@andydudley1775]

well in wow my disc priest does

[@grrtacos71]

Surprise!

[@scottbrandl2650]

I was traveling through Guatemala when this came out. The newspaper said, "we were expecting braveheart and we got mad max."

[@MarvinT0606]

...how is that a bad thing?

[@lepmuhangpa]

@@MarvinT0606 Mate, does Mad max sound like a good historical movie?

[@MarvinT0606]

@@lepmuhangpa [checks timeline] *yes*

[@lepmuhangpa]

@@MarvinT0606 Oh yeah, but hey wait a minute. Aren't nuclear weapons gonna make winters? How did that deserts come into play? Anyway, I did love Fury road.

[@Samn3212]

@@lepmuhangpa it’s more factually accurate than Braveheart.

[@eeooooee2234]

Even tho it’s very inaccurate it’s such a good film, not a word of English for over 2 hours but you can’t stop watching once it gets going

[@JordoGarcia]

And that’s the point. It’s not a documentary

[@Lin_Eileen]

It is a very intense movie and has pretty good acting, I've always really liked it and never have watched it from a historical lens that's why I clicked this video cause I thought learning of the history it's based in would be cool and it was definitely interesting learning about it. What you can actually learn from watching a movie like Apocalypto is more broad things of the human condition. Jaguar Paw struggles and overcomes great hardships for those he loves he's a good role model character. The whole film has the classic literary devices of man vs. X as main sticking points and the film is basically Jaguar Paw vs. The World I view it as a testament to the power of clever perseverance when you are struggling in life.

[@karismashihadeh295]

@@JordoGarcia exceed qsqxesdwwwscwdwxxd

[@benjaminread5287]

Sorry but it wasn't that intense or tense. It relies too heavily on the outrageous events (like the beheadings or... That's about it) to create tension. If you want a true movie with tension watch 'Dunkirk' that's a truly tense movie.

[@mariahkemp969]

Breath taking movie !!!! Absolutely. Iv watched it 5 times

[@le-chevalier-renaud]

I always thought that the villagers dying of small pox was kind of a hint that the Spanish had already arrived in the New World and the news just hadn't reach that particular part of the continent yet. Foreshadowing if you will. I mean if you think about it makes sense, there was never that many Spaniards in the New World and they didn't conquer it all at once, it would make sense for some more remote tribes to only hear about them a lot later after they had arrived or even for the disease to reach them before the Spaniards themselves.

[@TorTyr-z9h]

Same thought about smallpox

[@chrisd2051]

You gotta admit, that chase scene was bloody brilliant.

[@adrianziecik6280]

I was hoping for Mel Gibson screaming freedom

[@adrianziecik6280]

@@OkurkaBinLadin -_-

[@adrianziecik6280]

@@OkurkaBinLadin no shit

[@adrianziecik6280]

@@OkurkaBinLadin I'm still wondering if you did not get the joke

[@johnmorey720]

The chase portion of the movie is pretty much a remake of The Naked Prey.

[@PhoenixRiseinFlame]

2:49 “Crops of corn and maize” In other words, crops of corn and corn.

[@Molandria]

I figured all the damage to their crops was the Rampaging Minotaur.

[@19ars92]

the crops were in the soil of the land though

[@bryantgomez7135]

And more corn.

[@Molandria]

@@19ars92 well the Minotaur would stomp them to ruin I thought...

[@19ars92]

@@Molandria He would’ve killed them to death

[@ErrolCe]

Why are people complaining, literally the whole point of the channel is to pick out historical inaccuracies in movies

[@Zoltan1251]

so film depicts how Mayans hunted small tribes (actually accurate) living in the forest and this channel straight up missed that point completely, thinking they hunted in other Mayan village?!.... and the movie is just about how civilizations of that area roughly looked like etc... not really about historical accuracy so its kinda lame to point out inaccuracies in a movie that wasnt meant to show any real historical event, just romantise it.... it deserves some complains

[@joshuamunoz3310]

Zoltan1251 lol so you know Mayas hunted small tribes

[@batozorange]

Because people don't like it when things they like receive criticism, no matter how fair that criticism is.

[@someguitardude8462]

@@MonstersNotUnderTheBed Many people take it as hard fact. That is what bothers us.

[@someguitardude8462]

These guys would be the ones who complain that Pornhub has too much Porn.

[@EugeneHerbsman]

Why can't this film be based on multiple historical events and cultures throughout the region over centuries? It's a piece of art that got me interested in the history of Central America as a teen. I think it plays a great role as an introduction to the amazing historical and cultural turmoil of the region over a long period of time.

[@joshwuzhere1]

Yeah but why make it so inaccurate .. fuckin Gibson

[@-Mitra-]

​@@joshwuzhere1did anybody do any better with same scenery, devotion and charismatic amateur actors?

[@jan8742]

​@@joshwuzhere1 because different elements and historic events bundled together result in a better movie experience, duh.

[@jbnovah]

​@@-Mitra- that doesn't suddenly erase all the bad shit. Like the movie if you want but don't be a sycophant

[@ICameHereToComplain]

Why can't they make a single film based on the entirety of European history, and portray the incredibly unique and particular cultures of all those countries as one singular nation and people? The reason why this film is detrimental to general knowledge of history is because it groups together cultures that couldn't be more different into one stupid story for the ease of consumption for western, white audiences. Why should your high school teacher bother teaching you the intricacies of the south american empires when they can just throw on this offensive movie and call it a day? It's easy to do when it's about brown people from the past, isn't it? They're just all the same; primitive, tribal morons which was your preconception about them already. Do you not see how in an historical context this can be ignorant bigotry? How the consequences of showing this to a massive audience who will think this is how it happened will forever poison the well for any future movie adaptations to deliberately misrepresent our time?

[@missycatz1145]

I remember watching this when I was younger with my family we thought the movie was about a small tribe being taken by the Aztecs 🤷🏻‍♀️😂

[@arreola_0228]

That’s what I thought as a kid too haha

[@winniethepooh8353]

Yeah, I was thinking it was the Aztecs making a sacrifice to their god, by sacrificing other tribes

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@winniethepooh8353 Mayans did sacrifices too, but at a smaller scale, and I don't think they practiced the flower war (a poetic name to describe the war done by Aztecs to take prisonners for sacrifice). A ting noteworthy, even for the Aztecs, it was not very common to take peasants of another tribe for sacrifice, when they were fighting the flower war, they were trying to captured the ennemy warriors, it was the most worthy offers to the Gods ^^

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

Ha

[@sirshotty7689]

Krankar Volund well according to Stephen Douglas, a professor for the department of anthropology at brown university says that Mayan sacrifices mostly consisted of royalty and elites rather than slaves and according to Karl Taube (another anthropologist professor) said that there's no evidence that the mayans had large numbers of slaves. I could show you the link if you want it.

[@Generic_Username_0331]

Are you telling me Inglorious Bastards is not what really happened during WW2?

[@zakkarywhiting8304]

Inglorious Basterds doesn’t claim to be historically accurate you fucking idiot

[@Debonair.Aristocrat]

@@zakkarywhiting8304 Neither does Apocalypto. You're toting a spare chromosome to think so.

[@bgonza2]

Andrew, did you watch this movie because of the story, OR because it was directed by Mel Gibson? In other words are you interested in the history of the country's culture that was being represented or were you simply interested because it was a Mel Gibson film?

[@bgonza2]

@@zakkarywhiting8304 Did you watch this movie because of the story, OR because it was directed by Mel Gibson? In other words are you interested in the history of the country's culture that was being represented or were you simply interested because it was a Mel Gibson film?

[@bgonza2]

@Kenny G Did you watch this movie because of the story, OR because it was directed by Mel Gibson? In other words are you interested in the history of the country's culture that was being represented or were you simply interested because it was a Mel Gibson film?

[@Gopherll]

Jaguar Paw wasn't from a Mayan village. He was obviously in a hunter gather tribe that was raided by the Mayans

[@LeRealJawz]

then why he is speaking Mayan?

[@Gopherll]

@jawz9184 plenty of people speak Spanish that aren't Spanish. What he is speaking just reflects the influence of the Mayan empire on the surrounding areas

[@PrasNegro]

@@LeRealJawzsimple, Mayan influence

[@manifesteddestiny.]

​@@LeRealJawzbc it was likely the dominant language.

[@cbrreezzyy69]

I love the people in the comments that think they know more about this subject than the doctor who’s life is dedicated to this topic at the beginning of this video

[@intersubjective7129]

I always appreciate History Buff’s videos. An interesting note is if at the end it was Cortez in 1519 then it is possible timeline wise if we look up who Geronimo de Aguilar was. He was a shipwreck friar who landed in Mexico in 1511 with dozen others, made a slave, set to executed to a Mayan God, escaped but captured again by a rival Mayan tribe and subsequently lived as a slave for 8 years while learning Mayan. After Cortes arrived in 1519 Aguilar meetup with him and along with Marlintzin (who knew Mayan and Nahault) served as translators for Cortez during his conquest. Hence this information I myself happen to learn recently can conveniently tie up lose ends in the movie. Since Aguilar and other were around prior to Cortez, they could have inadvertently given the local population smallpox in 8 years. As well as explained Mayan tribes hostile to one another which historically would have been accurate as least in Aguilar’s experiences. But don't take my word for it, looked up Aguilar and Marlintzin.

[@Tea-rettes]

The historical inaccuracy isn't in that the people had smallpox before Cortez. Obviously they'd had it since Columbus. It's that they're getting smallpox and seeing Spaniards, not a few years or decades before Cortez, but half a millennium before Columbus or Spain even existed

[@intersubjective7129]

“ Set in Yucatán around the year 1502, Apocalypto portrays the hero's journey of a young man named Jaguar Paw, a late Mesoamerican hunter and his fellow tribesmen who are captured by an invading force.” It is at most almost two decades off from Cortez’s arrival. I don’t know why people are so eager to back date this movie’s timeline when the synopsis itself gives a clear year.

[@Tea-rettes]

@@intersubjective7129 Because if it takes place in 1502, as the synopsis claims, then that opens a whole new can of worms, as what we see in the movie is in no way consistent with the post-classic period. One could lessen the blow of historical inaccuracy by claiming it takes place in the 16th century, but that doesn't change the fact that cities shouldn't look like ones that were abandoned by the 10th century, nor should there be mass famine, which is a clear reference to the classic Maya collapse. Moreover, why have the quote at the beginning which deliberately indicates it's about the collapse of Mayan civilization?

[@intersubjective7129]

I agree about your point about the cities, that seems to be the director wanting to show them at an apex of development while by 1502 they were largely reduced to warring tribes in the shadow of the Nahuatl (Aztecs). On issue of mass famines, we didn’t see more than the effect in a small region. I mean who would suffer the effects of famine worst than a deposed people living near a large empire. Granted the movie depictions does mutter that. As the far as the quote it fits perfectly with Mayans at that people who were then divided among themselves to the point of intra-tribal conflict. Their collapse had already taken place well before the movie as well as not at the hands of the Spanish. It’s fits as setup that the Mayans have themselves to blame and not some foreign force for their collapse. Though on some level the same can be argued about Aztecs though a bit more up to interpretation of history.

[@Davidofthelost]

Time traveling Spaniards? Well that’s the scariest thing I’ve hear. Why? because . . . NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!

[@colonelgridwood4744]

Oh shii- Spanish inquisiton: Allow us to introduce ourselfs.

[@MkSupra]

I see you what you did there.

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

"Surprise, hijosdeputa!" -some Spanish inquisitor

[@k.a.2253]

EU4 agrees

[@sergiotuberquia8150]

Hahahaha came here for this

[@johanngaiusisinwingazuluah2116]

The main character lived in a chase scene for 600 years.

[@RiasGremoryIsLife]

The movie actually makes sense now.

[@deanbennett65]

No, no, no. He ran so fast he time traveled and drew his pursuers along with him in his time vortex wake, thing.

[@shmee123ful]

Johann Gaius isiNwinga Zulu Ahuitcoyotzin Hirohito he must be a highlander

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

Yeah, now its making sense. In the chase relative time frame, it lasted a couple of hours. But since they ran so fast, outside their time reference, it took 600 years. Had the chase gone on longer, and they went farther up the coast, maybe they would have stopped in time, to witness, Winfield Scott's landing at Veracruz, in the Mexican War. Even farther, and rounding the Gulf, stop in South Florida, to watch Apollo 11 taking off ! Now that's some science fiction ! Where's Mr. Peabody, and his boy Sherman ?

[@AgiIeBeast]

The movie is set in the year 1511, the same year the spaniards arrived to Yucatan. Sadly the reviewer got carried away with the fact that some things in the movie happened also (or seemed like they could've happened) in the 900 century, and that was most of the video.

[@haajesbuis7530]

On Mayan presence during colonization: The Spaniards actually battled the Mayans when they arrived in Mexico (Yucatan peninsula). Some erroneously believe the Mayan civilization vanished centuries before but this isnt the case. Rather, the golden age of the Maya's did come to an end centuries prior to colonization. On smallpox: Smallpox was introduced by the Spaniards to the Taino natives on the Caribbean islands. The Taino were an Arawak people who lived and traded along the Caribbean coast. It is only logical that European diseases were, after first contact by Columbus, carried through onto mainland Central America wiping out masses of native inhabitants before the Spaniards even set foot there. It is even not so far fetched to see Mayans being influenced as a vasal state by their Aztec overlords in terms of ritual sacrifices. It is furthermore argued that after the slow decline of Mayan civilization a lot of Mayans fled into the jungle and continued an isolated existence there. So having a tribe living in a hunter-gatherer context yet speaking Mayan is not that far fetched.

[@marcbartuschka6372]

I am not sure if the declined THAT much. I mean most natives still used small fields for various crops - even in the rainforrest they cleared areas and planted something. The village in the movie is even much "inferior" to quiet a number of typical villages in the rainforrest in size and buildings (as far as I know). That mean not it could not exist in that way, but I think it is unlikely that people from the Maya would live in that way.

[@henriquej619]

All that said, the film is incredible.

[@scionixx9568]

It really is. Anybody who goes to watch a film like this and expect historical accuracy must have a screw loose. It’s first priority is to entertain and make money with this film did. I saw it when I was 16 and it blew my mind. It was so great.

[@casey653]

@@scionixx9568 If you want to make a movie with mayan/aztec influence, fine. The issue isn't that, its the fact that it markets itself as an accurate, historical film. Which this movie does not do. Imagine if Star Wars marketed itself as a horror movie because George Lucas was inspired by a horror movie he liked, you'd be PISSED because star wars is OBVIOUSLY not a horror movie. this movie markets itself as a historical film/historical fiction (think Saving Private Ryan), and it just isnt... its closer to a fantasy film.

[@joshwuzhere1]

Mehh it’s alright

[@joshwuzhere1]

@@scionixx9568ancient history & an entire people are not your entertainment

[@johnmarsh8159]

@@joshwuzhere1except it quite literally is entertainment. Storytelling about the past is the oldest form of entertainment

[@storymaker299]

To be fair, I looked it up. The film is supposed to be set at the beginning of the 16th century and is supposed to depict an individual Mayan City state rather than the entire empire from centuries earlier. That would justify the small pox and conquistadors, but not everything I suppose. I think they should have stated in the film what year it was, it would have avoided confusion.

[@jackbartholomaus6510]

I definitely agree that this movie is set in the year 1511, because that would explain the reason why some of the characters have never seen a city-state before

[@jackbartholomaus6510]

@@antoniobeardall6520 And some of the Maya were still around in 1511.

[@boolosboi7503]

Storymaker2 They should have made it about the Aztecs then.

[@jackbartholomaus6510]

@@boolosboi7503 agreed

[@owenstorey573]

There were no Mayan villages like those depicted in the film in the 16th century

[@Jackpl]

According to Wikipedia, Apocalypto was **not** set in the 900s, but in 1502. This was never meant to be the height of the Mayan civilization, but its twilight and decline.

[@21whichiswhich]

Don't trust 100% on Wikipedia not all of its data are accurate. 😂

[@kberkman]

that may be the case but I think this movie took licence to mix content. if spanish had not arrived already the small pox would have been impossible too... and the idea of sacrifice was very Aztec in its description. Mayans were known for bringing prosperity to ppl they conquered not death and sacrificing

[@BabyBop999]

@akhenatuh Mayan civilization never died actually. There are still living Maya peoples. They live differently obviously.

[@sahanpslv2754]

@akhenatuh actually they were on decline.... aztecs ruled mexico area and had influence on maya at the time.. this is called as post classic mayan period... if you have any more doubts just do a simple google search of mayan civilization timeline...

[@MISSCLAUS777]

Spaniards did not arrive in the Mayan Peninsula, but in the Veracruz area they went to Central Mexico from there

[@basement-dwellingvirgin7099]

At this point, I'm just glad the ending is not Nick Fury trying to recruit Jaguar Paw

[@feminico2613]

Lmao

[@ololadeshadare3888]

Epic

[@MrHickspanik]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Chalup4]

Gen alphas will likely never cease to make fun of NF end-credit scenes 100%

[@leonheart9720]

lol

[@JAK0704]

Honestly this movie is in my top 5 and usually I highly dislike inaccuracies but this one just doesn’t bother me 😅

[@animec-dramaskpop6362]

I don't care about inaccuracies as long as there's a good story. I rewatch this movie every year. It's fantastic.

[@animec-dramaskpop6362]

​@@wPleasur3Liking a movie doesn't mean you don't care about natives or history. This movie NEVER promoted itself as a documentary. Plus, nobody should be learning about history from Hollywood.

[@animec-dramaskpop6362]

@@wPleasur3 Ignorance persists bc our school systems are crap. Anyone out of elementary school should be old enough to know Hollywood has never and will never make a 100% accurate movie/tv show. When Hollywood does their job right they send ppl down rabbit holes for hours/days looking up documentaries for actual knowledge on the subject of the movie/tv show. I watched tons of documentaries after 300, Gladiator, Troy, HBO's Chernobyl etc.

[@animec-dramaskpop6362]

@@wPleasur3 Why thank you but no.

[@joshwuzhere1]

This movie was shit tho

[@MLCloneCODgamer]

When you reconquista so hard you travel 600 years in the past

[@jwalker-zf5fd]

Nah mate it was just a 600 year long chase scene through the jungle.

[@bgonza2]

Did you watch this movie because of the story, OR because it was directed by Mel Gibson? In other words are you interested in the history of the country's culture that was being represented or were you simply interested because it was a Mel Gibson film?

[@bgonza2]

@@jwalker-zf5fd Did you watch this movie because of the story, OR because it was directed by Mel Gibson? In other words are you interested in the history of the country's culture that was being represented or were you simply interested because it was a Mel Gibson film?

[@redalert2291]

jwalker 0405 lmao

[@henryperez606]

Benito Gonzalez Jr. I watched it just to watch a good movie However all of the human sacrifice scenes actually did happen under the Aztec empire right before the Spaniards got here And the Spaniards did not have any back up Imagine traveling to another world and seeing Native American priest ripping beating human hearts out of their chests That’s some scary bullshit right there

[@j.s.m.5351]

The smallpox girl was a prophetic vision bro, use your third eye.

[@JohnDoe-ee6qs]

Rather than his brown eye

[@G0ddessKelly]

@@JohnDoe-ee6qs lmao

[@nathanherren6708]

Yeah I was just thinking that. It’s foreshadowing, maybe there were a few colonists that scouted before the armada arrived and spread the disease idk. Either way I got it and I thought it was a good move by Gibson. The harsh criticism of this point made me skeptical of the rest of the video

[@fernandonavia8804]

The little girl even made a prophecy about the end of their civilization, the whole movie is filled with foreshadowing about the incoming apocalypse, you know, "Apocalypto" ... but, this is a channel about historical accuracy in movies that are label as "historical" so i understand his critisism while i don't really agree with him.

[@manjelos]

Seems that this was Christopher Columbus fourth travel. Before some years he did visit islands like Cuba and Jamaica. From there some travellers could bring disease to todays Mexico.

[@Nekosan740]

I'm from Yucatan and i remember every time someone says something about the Apocalypto movie in mayan history class, the teacher always says something about how WRONG it is historically and how "The road to El Dorado" is even more accurate.

[@apewhat2666]

I loved road to Eldorado. Masterpiece

[@azteca6474]

@I don’t exist For tax and insurance purposes yes

[@admin.slayerenryu]

It actually kind of is. They include things like the ball game, the sacrifices, the way many of the people were dressed, how the high ranking soldier had a jaguar skin (jaguars were considered divine and killing one gave you a lot of respect and praise), how much richer in gold was the New World (until Europe went there and turn everything into sh*t) and even depicted the Spanish as obviously terrible people (there's literally a scene were Cortes says that Miguel and Tulio will be sent to Cuban slavers). Heck the jaguar year thing is a reference to Tezcalipoctla, the jaguar God and a pretty insane deity (although pretty much every pre-Colonial deity in Mexico was blood thirsty).

[@siggilinde5623]

@@admin.slayerenryu quetzalcoal (?) as well?'sorry... just wanted to seem educated after playing a game ... many years ago 😌

[@Lambda_Ovine]

@I don’t exist For tax and insurance purposes Yes and no. If you go as a tourist on vacation to visit the historic places you don't have to, but if you want a more meaningful interaction with the people then yes, you do need to speak Spanish fluently.

[@thewouldyouratherguy]

When a movie is this good, accuracy becomes less important.

[@nickb4056]

Assuming the film is set circa 1500, it is entirely possible smallpox made it to Central America before Mayans saw "a single Spaniard." It is well documented that European diseases traveled much faster and wider than the Europeans themselves, wiping out entire regions before Europeans even set foot in the area. This is because the disease was carried by indigenous people who traded, traveled, and waged war among one another.

[@steelheron1309]

Except that the so-called "Mayan collapse" being depicted in the movie occurred around 900, which was well before Europeans came to the New World and exposed Natives to diseases like Small Pox.

[@johnballard7775]

@@steelheron1309 wiki does say it was meant to be 1502

[@steelheron1309]

@@johnballard7775 Fair enough, in the time period of 1500, there would be a slight chance that they could have been exposed to Small Pox, however, what the movie is depicting wasn't a thing in the Mayan civilization in 1500. That was in 900. That's the problem.

[@TabaquiJackal906]

@@steelheron1309 I always thought it was the plague.....

[@steelheron1309]

@@slipjones2 The Mayan didn't exist in force? The part of the Mayan civilization that built the pyramids, built other architectural structures, used hieroglyphic writing, mastered farming, and mapping the stars was a very strong and unified civilization for a very long time. While the Mayan civilization didn't just disappear, until being conquered by Europeans around 1600, what's known as the classic Mayan collapse (not really a collapse) occurred between 700 to 900 CE. This so-called collapse according to the archeological record, is when a vast majority of the Southern parts of the classic Mayan civilization was abandoned in favor of the Northern region and became more splintered afterwards. The Southern region, where the Mayan civilization basically started saw a boom in population and architectural building from essentially 20 CE onward, then around 700 to 800 CE the population and architectural building slowed down exponentially and disappeared around 900 CE. While there's a lot of theories as to why such a civilization grew then abandoned everything so rapidly is still unknown. However, the one theory that's gaining the most traction is a drought. This drought occurred around the 800 and 900 CE time frame which was depicted in the movie. The problem is that there wasn't any drought around 1500 when the Spanish first arrived in the region which the movie depicted that too. Since the movie showed what is Small Pox, the two events couldn't have occurred at the same time. This really isn't that hard to understand.

[@slainemccool2875]

I get the feeling this fella doesn’t like Mel Gibson I could be wrong though 😅

[@walmartcartel]

He doesn't like Mel Gibson because most of his historical movies aren't historically accurate.

[@godzillavkk]

If he wants to make legit complaints about Mel, he should review Pocahontas.

[@Maharlikan_1898]

@@godzillavkk Oh God

[@godzillavkk]

@@Maharlikan_1898 Should we check him into the funny farm in advance if he decides to?

[@tylercsm4690]

How could you not like a shitty actor/director who’s a raging racist?

[@ethangorham17]

Nick - You're missing quite a bit of history here trying to nitpick for inaccuracies. Maybe lay off Korey's whiskey, ok? First, while the Maya didn't have direct contact with the Spaniards to contract Smallpox, they did have contact with other peoples that did, like the Taino. As such, the carriage of disease is likely to have affected the girl and their mother that way, particularly if it passed from traders, fishermen, whomever on their way to the city. Smallpox famously affected the Inca well before Pizarro invaded. Come 1502, the Maya would have contact with Columbus' 4th voyagers, years before Cortez moved against the Aztecs and other Spaniards invaded/colonized the central American interior. Second, the Maya did have contact with and still-thriving cities at the same time as the Aztec (Mexicali). While they weren't at their height and in many ways were on the decline, they were still around in the 1500s (in fact, they weren't conquered by the Spanish until after the Aztec had been conquered). Some historians contend that the heart sacrifices came from the Maya rather than the Aztec, given how the Aztecs seemed to reappropriate the customs and traditions of other tribes in Mexico, though evidence for this is scarce. Point is, there is evidence for heart sacrifices. The question is ultimately one of scale, of whether the sacrifices at the time had bodycounts like those of the Aztec. Given the sacrifice took place on the day of an eclipse, the larger scale sacrifice of hundreds wouldn't be out of the question. Third, there were such things as forest dwellers and, while this may not make a lot of sense to you as an urbanite in the 21st century, but people weren't as connected back then. People could go their whole lives living in the same 5 mile radius. This was actually common in medieval Europe among many peasants. I add that last part to point out that it's more common historically than you think. Shoot, places in India, China, and central Africa very much remain like this to this day. Finally, and this is the biggest thing you've missed: *the movie isn't about the Classical Maya collapse*. It doesn't take place in 900. It takes place in the early 1500s. How you missed this, I've no freaking idea. It's pretty blatant. Like your Kingdom of Heaven review (where there, you attack the theatrical cut no one watches anymore for everything addressed in the Director's Cut that everyone else watches), you miss the forest for the trees and turn in a bad review. Holy hell, you were so obviously on such a high going on this YT tangent you missed such blatant things. We get it. You don't like Mel Gibson. No need to be an ass, though.

[@masterDarts4188]

Did you read this guy's original comment ? Most of what he's saying isn't even define proof just him saying there is suggesting of somethings. And at no point does this video make a claim that it has anything to do with race. Alot of the stuff in the movie just seems to be borrowing from famous moments in history from different cultures and putting them together for the sake of entertainment.

[@FirstLast-bj3hh]

ethangorham17 u should do an inaccuracies video on this person's inaccuracies

[@CorbCorbin]

I thought this movie took place in the 1500s, with this being the last of what was left of the Mayans. This guy is too angry, about Braveheart, or something.

[@CorbCorbin]

Hannibal Rasberry Neither is the video. He is guessing that the setting is the collapse of 900, while at no time in the movie, other than the pox scene, and the ending, are we given an idea of the year it's set. He didn't make this point, because it would make his scathing review, more sympathetic to Gibson. The fact he compared it to Pocahontas/Avatar, says a lot.

[@antoniomiller7323]

Except for the fact that it's clearly about the collapse of the Mayan civilization which took place in 900 AD. No amount of authenticity is gonna make up for mixing up events that took place 600 year apart.

[@craftygnome97]

The Spanish landing at the end of the movie weren't necessarily the first Spanish to land in the Americas, they could've landed 2 years ago 60 miles north of them, passed small pox to the Maya there, and the disease made its way down to the city in the movie

[@ICreatedU1]

My thoughts exactly. Not to mention, the illness being smallpox is just yet another questionable assumption made by the video. There are other infectious diseases that produce blisters. The truth is we don't really know when the movie is set nor what precise cultures are being depicted. Are the Europeans at the end Spanish or Portuguese? Is this first contact? Are they Mayans, Aztecs or an imaginary syncretic civilization incorporating practices and behaviors from different Mesoamerican cultures at different times? Are all groups in the movie part of the same civilization/culture? What sickness are they suffering from? The movie remains purposefully indeterminate on those issues. The guy in the vid makes tons of assumptions and then faults the movie for inaccuracies based on said questionable assumptions. Apocalypto is a masterpiece in my book.

[@shiivainu9442]

Right. This video is nitpicking in the most annoying way because half of what he says isn’t backed by any truthful information, just a guy getting upset over assumptions lol

[@sirparzival9372]

@@shiivainu9442 Is not about acuracy is all about shitting on Gibson.

[@shiivainu9442]

@@sirparzival9372 i can get behind that 🫡

[@Siberial]

Not only is it possible. It's expressly stated in the film.

[@klatte3351]

Tapir casting: Your look is great but we're gonna have to dub you.

[@-KillaWatt-]

Lol

[@marieroberts5664]

Yeah, sorry, the accent is just too high toned, we need more gutteral...you think it isn't realistic? Dude, do you think it's actually Sam Eagle screaming in all those pictures? Hank the Red tail Hawk does ALL his stand-ins and his dubs, has been since the 30s!

[@DKTaoNeo]

I've watched the audio commentary with Gibson and the co-writer, they openly admit that they blended some aspects of different periods of Mayan civilization, and they share that the film takes place in 1502. Although this film isn't by any means completely historically accurate, the filmmakers were never attempting to make it that way, their commentary goes over that notion several times.

[@MetalRampage23]

But this nerd just needs to hate on the great Mel

[@jongon0848]

@@MetalRampage23 let's not act like everything he touches is gold. I'm not a fan of Mel Gibson as an actor, and I don't even like Braveheart. But this film is a masterpiece and I'll always defend this film for what a Cinematic experience it is.

[@YouDontKnowMe2011.9]

@@MetalRampage23 I agree totally. I love historybuff's videos, but anything that deals with Mel Gibson will be hated and criticized, regardless of how good the movie is.

[@klientproby]

@@MetalRampage23 Uh... Right... So much that's wrong in your one sentence. 👻🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️

[@dillonwalshpvd]

@@MetalRampage23 go adjust your nipple clamps

[@TheStudent92]

You'll take any scenario if it explains how conquistadors traveled back in time 600 years. Okay. What if rather than depicting the Maya collapse c.900 AD, it was straightforwardly depicting the time of the Yucatan Maya's first contact with the Spanish in 1511? This resolves why some Maya have smallpox, as the Spanish had already made contact with other parts of modern Latin America which meant the spread of disease. Many native Amerindians who died never even saw a white man because the disease traveled so quickly, hence in some areas, smallpox preceded the Spanish. Whether that was the case in the Yucatan, I don't know, but if you give the film artistic license, the conflict is resolved and the plot makes sense. This 1511 date also resolves why the style of sacrifice resembles postclassical Maya sacrifice (it was set in the postclassic era). I believe the reason for the central conflict of the film is that there is a (whether historical or ahistorical) remnant holdout of urban Maya attacking other Maya groups that had moved away from the urban lifestyle to the hunting culture in the forest, sacrificing their neighbors to ease the burden on their own population.

[@z3r0_35]

That...actually makes a lot more sense. After all, the Maya civilization WAS still around in the 16th Century, even if they were in decline whereas the Aztecs were top dog in Mesoamerica. However, for the sake of comedy, we’ll assume that the conquistadors were time travelers.

[@andreamoreno-diaz1253]

This should be the top commentary.

[@sahanpslv2754]

Perfectly makes sense mate... was thinking the same.... they even consulted maya archeologist Richard Hensen for this movie... some youtubers goto any length just to bish bash a movie...

[@crayzmarc]

Best comment

[@earlm4744]

There it is, finally a comment that makes perfect sense, he also went for how the natives should speak english so that the common audience digest it better yet nitpicks to the point where if the people breathe inaccurately it is worthy of condemnation.

[@davidcarr6633]

Not all movies need to be historically accurate to be great. It’s a great movie & great representation. Still never been a movie like it.

[@termsconditions9433]

It is actually historically accurate, the Mayans were still around during the Aztecs

[@fire398017]

@@termsconditions9433 Did you even watch this video??? 🤣🤣

[@termsconditions9433]

@@fire398017 yes? And my dad is a historian he knows stuff

[@oleksandrmaltsev761]

@@fire398017 well it is technically "historically" accurate only all the facts are taken out of different points of time and meshed together in attempt to kinda show what was going on in that part of the world. I see why that could make people mad

[@BruceVial]

Theory: the Mayans in the movie are die hard cosplay Aztecs playing a live or die Mayan re-enactment.

[@seandavis2799]

A lot of the increased human sacrifice is consistent with Terminal Period, which saw increased influence by Toltec/Uto-Aztecan groups.

[@hiiamapirate]

This is the only way that movie starts making sense thanks, it's a really cool theory.

[@Horesmi]

"None of them seem to be carrying shields" - from Yucatan to Westeros, the art of using a flat piece of wood has been long forgotten.

[@jirkazalabak1514]

Having them without shields makes the fights more intense. Also, most of the actors have no idea what they´re doing, so giving them another thing to handle would just be too much. They would end up moving the shield all the way behind their back while swinging anyway, because a lobotomy is apparently a job requirement for a choreographer..

[@Horesmi]

Jirka Zalabák It becomes stupid when someone in the movie actually starts using shields, and gains an advantage. Like when Boltons SUDDENLY have a shit load of shields, while nobody before that moment used them. And, predictably, they sweep the floor cause they have shields. With long spears. In formation. It's ETHER nobody has shields, OR everyone has them. There is no culture that didn't invent a shield.

[@sauceboy_5930]

"most of the actors have no idea what they´re doing" That's why they are actors on a $40 million Hollywood movie.

[@jirkazalabak1514]

I meant they have no idea how to fight properly. Just look at the silly way Kit Harrington clenches his fists while beating up Ramsay(it is not the dumbest thing I have ever seen, but it could still lead to some unnecessary injuries). The thumb is out of the fist. IRL, the hand would break so easily, especially when hitting someone right in the mouth and teeth, as he did like 20 times. There are very few actors who actually know shit about swordfighting, or fighting in general(and those who know something are often terrible actors, so...). Also, if they gave them shields, it would make sense to fight in a formation, which Holywood will not have, because then, the viewers would start demanding battles in formations. And well, where will it end? What will the poor Holywood do then?

[@historywithhilbert]

AlHoresmi They're clearly slavers who are out to capture slaves without killing too many so they'd attack with surprise and without killing too many, perhaps rendering shields over encumbering for their use.

[@Galvaxatron]

I'm usually quite fussy about historical inaccuracies but I find this movie absolutely brilliant. It is absolutely gripping from start to finish. Many of its scenes stuck to my memory like glue. I rewatch it every few years.

[@pingamalinga]

It's a great flick.

[@offtherealm5438]

I watch it several times a year.

[@pingamalinga]

@@offtherealm5438 Ha. I haven't seen this one in about 5 or 6 years but I am due.

[@dom_diggity.1488]

Eh people get a wrong understanding of the Mayans

[@dom_diggity.1488]

@@satanasteguarda It may no longer be a civilization but Mayan people still very much exist and I'm sure they don't like their history being depicted as such

[@captainhowlerwilson508]

I love Braveheart, but I can’t get enough of you bringing back the “historians from England will say I am a liar” line and then saying “yeah I bet they do asshole.” 😂🤣

[@onioncontrol]

It is amazing to be how successful the Mayan, and Aztec empires were without iron or horse. Both empires had advanced mathematics, and writing. Their calendars extremely accurate, and a system of calculation and geometry so efficiently both civilizations erected great pyramids without the backbone of Pythagoras.

[@xzxchx]

Alot of that had to do with population. brute force your way to success by having alot of people and alot of food. Gotta remember when the spanish made it to tenochtitlan, the city was bigger and more populated than madrid at the time

[@andreribeiro4639]

@@xzxchx No, no, I think that has to do with them being humans with brains. I don't like the idea of dismissing native american success without horses and iron as simply "brute-forcing". It kinda takes away merit where it's certainly due.

[@xzxchx]

@@andreribeiro4639 No doubt they were brilliant, especially considering the acoustic characteristics of their temples, and their knowledge of astronomy. Certainly intelligent people but having alot of people and the means to feed them allows you to focus on such things, rather than being constantly concerned with not starving. And building the structures as large as they did would demand a large pool of man power. In THAT sense, having alot of people meant they didnt need pig iron tools. Probably would have come up with something like that though had they enough time to.

[@xzxchx]

@@andreribeiro4639 Perhaps even obsidian tools? That woulda been awesome

[@dalechristensen3640]

Egyptians predated Pythagoras and didn't know Pi either, and yet built the pyramids.

[@mitchellgeorge6031]

The movie’s biggest problem is that it combines the events of the collapse of the classic Maya in the 10th century and the twilight of the Maya in the 16th century with the arrival of smallpox and the Spanish. If they simply focused events from one setting, the movie would be fairly accurate.

[@joedoakes8004]

Yeah it tried to be all encompassing but it didnt work out to well like you said it should have focused on a specific time period

[@jeffpostman9928]

Although most of the famous cities were abandoned in the Post-classic era, wealthy cities and marketplaces still existed when the spanish arrived, yes there's maybe a bit of dramatic license taken in making it look more like a peak mayan city, but as the viewer you're supposed to be seeing the events through the eyes of a bewildered villager from a hunter gatherer tribe who has never seen any sort of city or society of that magnitude. There are some things that aren't optimal from a historical standpoint, but it's supposed to have a greater symbolic meaning beyond just being a hyperrealistic historical depiction. Just my two cents.

[@thenout]

@@jeffpostman9928 Word.

[@JeremieThe]

And uses Aztec sacrificial rituals, not Mayan ones.

[@Hrothmeir]

Still not as bad as having Xena go from the Battle of Troy to speaking with Julius Caesar.

[@mmcaog]

Julius Caesar? She made it as far as feudal Japan! :)

[@Hrothmeir]

I'm only up to season two :)

[@mmcaog]

Sorry! Spoilers :S

[@Questron71]

Don't diss the lady... she had a SLOW horse.

[@capo328]

+Slippy Wasn't there an episode or two where she actually did time travel to the 90s or am I misremembering

[@snex000]

Why exactly is a smallpox outbreak out of the question? The ships appearing at the end of the movie (spoiler) are not the first European ships that arrived to the the New World. The disease would have absolutely spread to people that had never made contact with Europeans yet, and those people would have no explanation for that disease.

[@cedric4107]

Mexico was discovered 1517, but smallpox was only introduced 2-3 years later. The first European to reach Mexico was Francisco Hernández de Córdoba, who landed in the Yucatan, if the movie takes place in the Mayan polities, then it would make sense that the ship at the end of the movie belongs to Francisco Hernández. Actually, Smallpox hit the former Aztec Empire first in the north, it didn't reach the Yucatan till much later, because it was brought by african slaves the spanish brought in to replace the native labor after the conquest of the Mexicas. Either way you look at it, the timeline doesn't match up, because by the time Smallpox was brought to Mexico, the Mayan city-states already had knowledge of the Spanish, and had fought them in several occasions (though like the guy state, the architecture is wrong for that timeline). Anyways, it's a movie, and I have yet to see a "historical movie" that is 100% free of historical inaccuracies. I'm thankful for Mel Gibson for making a movie in the Mayan language with Maya people (I'm part Maya). He's definitely one of the best of our time and Apacalypto is quite enjoyable nonetheless.

[@kenbattor6350]

I somehow get the feeling that he didn't like this movie.

[@BradenTerry98]

I don't see how you got that feeling 😜

[@ninarobles2893]

Right

[@gussi123]

😂😂😂😂

[@marcwhalen6506]

nor Mel Gibson

[@godzillavkk]

The guy needs to take emotional therapy and yoga.

[@joncarroll2040]

Those aren't conquistadors. They're just vikings who got really lost.

[@Atreus21]

And were apparently Christians.

[@joncarroll2040]

There were Christian missions to Scandinavia as early as the 8th century so a group of Christian Vikings arriving in mesoamerica around the time of the Mayan collapse would still be more historical than most of this movie

[@Atreus21]

@@joncarroll2040 interesting. Thanks.

[@xekron61]

Jon Carroll Vikings with caravan ships tho? That weren’t even invented until the 1400s?

[@pitterpatter4201]

Wouldn't call those people Christians but okay.

[@HVLLOW99]

21:15 Mayan priest drinking Gatorade is equally accurate to the actual movie's accuracy.

[@widukindgaladh949]

No it's not.

[@mcmapless]

@@widukindgaladh949 yes it is. 🥴

[@recemottashed8114]

@@widukindgaladh949 you got trolled… damn dude that’s embarrassing

[@Montano76]

Lmao

[@joecarrillo6935]

🤣🤣

[@ThePurplenurple91]

Everyone confused about the main Characters being Maya, you have to remember that the Aztec were at war with neighboring tribes that did not want to join them, so when Cortez and the Spanish show up one of the reasons he was able to beat over 20k vs his 400-900 men, was because the neighboring tribes just like the one in the film, joined him because they also wanted to destroy the Aztecs, ultimately leading Cortez to turn on them after the big enemy was gone

[@Section5_CdnIntelService]

The Mayans were to the Aztec what the Spanish are to Germans.

[@ulvschmidt7174]

​@@Section5_CdnIntelServicecould you please elaborate?

[@Tea-rettes]

@@ulvschmidt7174 Mayans and Aztecs are completely different ethno-cultural groups that happened to share similar architecture and religious beliefs. Likewise, Spaniards and Germans may construct similar buildings and largely practice similar religions, but they have completely unrelated languages and cultures.

[@gsimon123]

Pretty sure Cortez had help from thousands of locals.

[@gsimon123]

@@Tea-rettes there was a lot of overlap between the two towards the end of the mayan civilization as the aztecs had risen in power and influence while the mayans had been slowly collapsing.

[@gainsgamingginger2177]

They’re actually an isolated tribe... not Mayan, but the language was not specific to the Maya. It was a Mesoamerican lnguage

[@coldmexican288]

Mayan WAS a mesoamerican language. I dont think you have the right definition of mesoamerica

[@castro978]

@@coldmexican288 mayan wasnt the only mesoamerican language you dumbfuck

[@coldmexican288]

@@castro978 did I say Mayan was the only mesoamerican language? I did not.

[@coldmexican288]

@@castro978 learn how to read buddy.

[@castro978]

@@coldmexican288 you are the one that needs to learn how to read before starting pointless arguments dumbass

[@gabrielnguyen5580]

i mean in terms of walking 2 days from the village. You go to Afghanistan and there were still people who never visited the major cities even if they heard of them. Its not like isolated villages didn't exist. People live and die in the place they are born

[@Impuritan1]

But did Mel Gibson direct Afghanistan? Dude seemed to have started the movie review pissed off right off the bat because it was Mel that directed it.

[@thomasjuniardi3559]

Here in Indonesia we have isolated "baduy" tribes and their villages just 140 Km from buzzing metropolis Jakarta and they choose to never see it, they choose isolation because they thought the city is dangerous place. Considering what happened in this Mayan/Aztec city, I think Jaguar paws villagers had a very good reason 😁

[@Ottocide]

I actually really love this movie, despite all the inaccuracies. Also, I think small tribes such as Jaguar Paw's did in fact exist. They couldn't have all been uniformly Agricultural based, as there were various tribes living throughout the Yucatan and surrounding regions, all with various lifestyles and cultures both similar and different to the Mayans.

[@youraveragedailygamer5448]

But you gotta cringe at the small pox scene

[@tallaganda83]

There are still isolated tribes to this day so it would be ridiculous to think there wouldn't have been back then.

[@boolosboi7503]

tallaganda83 There are in South America but not in the Yucatán.

[@tallaganda83]

Boolos Boi I’m sure there were in the time of the Mayans though.

[@boolosboi7503]

tallaganda83 If they were then there would have been no isolated tribes in the Yucatán. Again, there was a Mayan city every twenty miles you walked (that may be a slight exaggeration). Look up a map of Mayan cities and you’ll see.

[@parrotpirate9648]

They did a awesome job with the dialect my husband is from Mexicito Chiapas and speaks one of the many Mayan dialects and he understands a lot of what they are saying.

[@MichelMawon4982]

This movie was extremely entertaining, historical inaccuracies notwithstanding. I do however appreciate your work in pointing them out. I don't look to Hollywood for its accuracy. I'm Haitian and we aren't ever portrayed accurately so I've learned to make my peace with it.

[@MichelMawon4982]

@Manny Santiago same, but I've seen several of his videos and really appreciate that it's his schtick. Apocalypto is one of my favorites and getting myself upset about inaccuracies would undoubtedly ruin it for me.

[@MichelMawon4982]

@Manny Santiago no arguments here

[@markellott5620]

I'm British. Hollywood doesn't do us accurately either...

[@themajesticspider-man6116]

@Manny Santiago It doesn't need to be a documentary for it to be accurate, dude. Saving Private Ryan was very historically accurate while also serving as a reminder, artistically and symbolically, of the horrors of war.

[@WoncoTheSane]

@@markellott5620 Hollywood does not even do Hollywood accurately.

[@dante340]

To be fair, Mel Gibson had absolutely nothing to do with writing/ directing The Patriot... It's a freaking Roland Emmerich movie... Gibson only acted in it.

[@DonAbrams-hq7ln]

No kilts,no blue paint....totally out of place in 1305. No nookie with the Queen,Edward 1 died after Wallace in 1307 of the shits ......so l have read.

[@ianmci]

Independent Mayan civilizations continued until 1697 when the Spanish conquered Nojpetén, the last independent city-state. Millions of Maya people still inhabit the Yucatán peninsula today

[@Chris-rg6nm]

@@scintillam_dei There are still millions of Native Americans in the US today.

[@503tasmanio]

@@scintillam_dei they did, but they recovered the population in like 300-400 years and most Mayan families tend to have a lot of children

[@TnTinoGameplays]

No bro 😂

[@seankelly378]

@@scintillam_dei they killed hundreds of thousands of people in tenochtitlan alone and replaced them and they’re beautiful city with Mexico City

[@martijnstuart95]

Except this movie shows Mayans still living in massive cities in the 1500s, which isn't true at all. After the collapse the Mayan civilization reverted back to a simpler way of life. There were no occupied cities in the Yacutàn at this time.

[@eddiejones1073]

The film is set in 1502 you’ve came to the conclusion that this is during the fall of maya because they’re having a drought which I’m sure they had plenty of

[@cristianaguilar6064]

If the movie is set in 1502 why are the Mayans still in their cities

[@kluaoha731]

There was no solar eclipse in this region in 1502. There was one in 1496, though.

[@grobbs666]

Wikipedia says 1517, but either way, I really didn't like this History Buffs video. All the yelling and screaming... and virtually all of that and all the criticisms are because his interpretation that the movie is set in the 9th century. If he would only drop that, few criticisms are valid, and no need for the annoying screaming and absurd time traveling nonsense part. If set in 1517, the girl with smallpox could be reasonable as Spanish and other exporers had already arrived in other locations, and the disease could have (and did) spread by then. The fact the main characters weren't aware of major cities would be explained as the Maya largely collapsed 600 years earlier, so saying there were Mayan cities everywhere wouldn't be correct at that time. However there were a few that remained, such as Iximche, which scattered Mayan villages remaining at the time (Mayans didn't fully disappear till almost 1700) might be shocked seeing. Which also explains his other criticisms early in the video such as "the land not being cultivated". In the 16th century, the few remaining Maya were scattered and no thriving civilization existed anymore! Point being, if we set the movie in early 16th century, nearly everything makes sense. Only major critique might be they portray a Mayan cultural city that's more accurate to one from the 9th century.

[@TillisIsDone]

During the sacrifice they use the name of the mayan sun God not the Aztec sun god. Yucatan Mayan also wasn't spoken by the Aztec.

[@HamburgerMan-ch1od]

@@grobbs666I disagree with this because the movie’s description only says that it takes place in the “height” of the Mayan civilization. So ironically, the claim that this movie takes place in the 1500s is kinda baseless because the movie is unclear when it actually takes place. What I think happened is that the writers mixed up the Aztecs and Mayan and if you say these guys are Aztec it makes sense

[@amirreguieg3583]

I actually liked the ending, because I thought it was about the Aztecs, and the ending was a "HOLY SHIT! they're doomed" moment!

[@Jacky-Poo]

Yea accurate or not who cares. That ending is intense, making the entire movie beforehand (which was awesome) seem like a warm up.

[@VDxVicious]

Except .. as explained they are not the Aztecs because they don’t exist yet lol

[@johnmoreno5965]

That's what I thought when the Spanish showed up

[@johnmoreno5965]

Because the Maya weren't even around when the Spanish showed up

[@Mr713mexican]

@@johnmoreno5965wow your knowledge of Mayan history sucks. Not only were they there, they were the last civilization/cities to be conquered all the way up to 1800s! 300 years later after the Spanish arrived.

[@tonpalacios2964]

the answer is simple, the Spanish sailed into the Bermuda triangle and that's how they ended up there

[@thegreatandalmightycaesar2661]

Nobody expects a time-travelling Spanish Expedition!

[@codypainter3905]

Nice

[@liamwalton4183]

I like this comment

[@liamwalton4183]

Oh I just realised there's a button for that. Ignore my previous comment

[@bgonza2]

Did you watch this movie because of the story, OR because it was directed by Mel Gibson? In other words are you interested in the history of the country's culture that was being represented or were you simply interested because it was a Mel Gibson film?

[@bgonza2]

@@codypainter3905 Did you watch this movie because of the story, OR because it was directed by Mel Gibson? In other words are you interested in the history of the country's culture that was being represented or were you simply interested because it was a Mel Gibson film?

[@SlayPurr-d8o]

This video is weird, the movie is perfect just because it’s not historically accurate doesn’t mean it’s not good, him nitpicking everything without even acknowledging how good it is, crazy

[@Cilent__]

Tell me the name of this KZbin channel real quick.......go ahead....

[@vee_grave]

Was the first tribe supposed to be Mayan? I was under the impression that they were not part of the Mayan civilization though could have shared a similar language to the Mayan’s who ravage their village. I don’t think it’s impossible to have “more primitive” tribes or ways of living next to more civilized societies like the Mayans. For instance, even today (globally) standards and ways of living are still very different. Not everyone drives to a grocery store to pick up their produce.

[@stirling84]

I had to come to the comments to see if anyone else had noticed this. I too thought the exact same.

[@HyphyJuice916]

Even to this day there are tribes of people who live like this. It's extremely rare but true. Nick points out they speak Mayan but I honestly think he's being so damn nitpicky about it. I'm not sure if Mel or the writers ever claimed it to be historically accurate He has pointed out that too many movies like this are made that are horribly inaccurate when it comes to history. But that shouldn't make a person think a movie is complete shit because of it. Out of all his videos he's made this by far Nick in his whiniest form.

[@lesliearden6083]

@MARCVS ANTONIVS Yes, exactly, and it's also been recorded that the Mayans' first in contact with smallpox was through trade relations with the Aztecs, not direct contact with the Spanish.

[@estout324]

Plus the Mayans as a unified Empire didn’t exist at this point, it had already collapsed by the time the Europeans came and was just a collection of states who all were Mayan, some still were united by this time but some were not anymore. So it’s entirely possible there were a bunch of these break away groups of people who were starting their own independent villages, but to his point they probably still should have included more advancement as they would’ve retained at least some of that, but maybe they were just starting anew.

[@torinjones3221]

Exactly that was my impression. Theyre not mayan they just speak the language. Nahuatl was spoken by many non aztecs and was very widespread even in isolated pockets amongst other languages.

[@PMW3]

nobody expects the Spanish -inquisition-

[@abbygaby9210]

...Time Traveling Conquistadors

[@DrLynch2009]

1511? No time travel bullshit.

[@williamtimonen6814]

Abby Gaby I did...

[@michaelroper8448]

I guess that they are time traveling Mayans.

[@absurdist5134]

If Mel can have the time traveling conquistadors then it's not that much a stretch to give us the time traveling inquisition.

[@Szydencer]

So, if the scene is filmed with a native tapir, but then dubbed over with swine sounds... is it "hogwashing"?

[@faerieSAALE]

that scene set the bar - so I guess the whole movie was Hogwash!

[@lepmuhangpa]

Just uncaring.

[@suemukwa]

As someone who is Indigenous, Apocalypto is one of my favourite movies. The girl w smallpox hits home for me, regardless of the timeline being out of order. There are many scenes that do align with how society and culture was for Indigenous worldwide. I go to ceremonies, and it's really cool to see this aspect of who we are represented in a huge production. If I'm being honest your review was overly negative, and just grabbing at straws to "criticize".

[@seankennedy6676]

The small pox girl was obviously a prophetic scene, she even predicts the coming of the Spanish. its pretty obvious what the writers were trying to portray.

[@nerzer11]

It was in fact very often the case, that people died of smallpox and the other old world diseases before ever meeting the Spanish. The diseases travelled faster than the Spanish, which then found ghost villages full of dead people. Although of course not before the first Spanish landed.

[@nerzer11]

@Mason Freer If we assume that the ships are the forth travel of columbus (the time he really landed in yucatan) there could be a small chance that smallpax from the first three travels reached this city. Although this is not too important, as in my eyes it is clearly an artistic choice to shortly show the phenomenon of the fast travelling diseases as well as another facett of a crumbleing society.

[@nerzer11]

@Mason Freer Most Elements point to a timeframe from 1450-1500. The comment of Ian Sayers to this video summarizes beautifully why that is the case.

[@seankennedy6676]

@@connorbranscombe6819 Huh? I think she's prophetic because she gave a prophecy? Like an obvious one.

[@KevinUchihaOG]

@@connorbranscombe6819 "considering no one mentions its a prophecy" omg do movies need to fucking spell shit out for you? I don't know if you noticed but this movie doesn't spell anything out for you, at all. Nothing is explained. The viewer need to figure out what is going on by paying attention to the visuals. Why can't she be physical? Who made the rule that a prophecy/omen/vision-of-the-future needs to be only visual/audible? If something supernatural can happen that makes you see the future then why couldn't it be interacted with? I really don't understand. Other movies have interactions between real/physical people and ghost/spirits/etc so why can't this one? Where can i find the rule book that you read that everything super natural in movies need to be immaterial. And even if it was just a hallucination, you can "hallucinate" sensations too. Your vision and hearing isn't the only thing that can hallucinate.

[@lincs4life]

Just a small note the villagers might not actually be mayan themselves but a subsidiary tribe to the mayans, many African tribe are similar for example the Maasai tribe has several smaller more specialised tribes they have working relationships with, the Maasai are predominantly cattle farmers while the small tribes do things like metal working, medical/witchcraft, jewellery making ect so I'd expect this is probably a similar situation.

[@based7213]

As someone who is from a Ch’orti Maya tribe in honduras many people broke away from the bigger cities and created new ones like Oxwitik or Copan Ruinas in Honduras you’re correct

[@dom_diggity.1488]

@@based7213 no he’s not because as you just said, even they broke away they’re still Mayan? Lol

[@based7213]

@@dom_diggity.1488 we have little tribes like think of it as Aztecs, even Aztecs had their own tribes/ethnicities within their own empires. There are more than 40 different Maya ethnicities

[@shykorustotora]

The reason why it's an issue is because you could climb to basically ANY hill and see a Mayan city. So this "tribe" must have never left the 2 square miles they started in for a hundred years, never climbed a tree and never climbed a hill, not to mention, you'd have to be very lucky for not a SINGLE Mayan traveler to ever come across your "tribe"

[@nodescriptionavailable3842]

​@@shykorustotora uhh, first of all the Mayans did come across their little tribe, and uhhh, it's a movie guys, an epic fu@%ing movie

[@kevinnaber790]

As to smallpox, it is likely that they had contact with a Caribbean islander. It shows a Spanish Galleon, not the small caravels that Columbus and early explorers used

[@PaulZink]

If that were the case, then the historical error would be even worse: galleons (a later ship design) vs. Caravel.

[@kevinnaber790]

I am referring primarily to the spread of smallpox, not the timeframe or depiction of the local culture. If it is 1508 with the exploration of Panama and the southern Yucatán coast or later with the Cortez expedition in 1518, the 5 larger ships would make sense as well as the smallpox victims. The smallpox victims could be the family of a fisherman who spent a couple of days in what is now Cuba or even refugees from colonized islands and in 1493 Columbus brought around 1500 people to colonize Hispaniola, also by 1511 the Spanish were building larger open ocean ships as by 1530 they had large numbers of 3 or 4 mast galleons which brought furs and precious metals to Spain from the Americas. Another big thing to consider is that the Aztec empire appears to have not established itself very far into the Yucatán, so it could be possible that one or more Mayan cities survived the collapse of the empire and continued their culture up to the 1500s European encounters though it is highly unlikely that the same collapse situation would occur. I agree with Nick’s rant at the end that Mel Gibson doesn’t care about history, it would be a much better film had it been set in Aztec Technotillan instead of the Mayan Yucatán, both had human sacrifice, and the Aztecs were much more divided than the Mayans which is why so many joined with the Conquistadors and how a force of fewer than 500 conquered an empire of over a million. Nick said that they couldn’t have been exposed to smallpox yet, but the Maya (later the Aztecs) and the Caribbean islanders both had knowledge of boating and could even have established trade routes, so smallpox would likely have spread in the 19 years between the discovery of Hispaniola and the discovery of Mexico and the isthmus that is Central America. The idea that you have to have direct contact with a foreign individual to be exposed to a new pathogen is not how it works. If you were a fisherman or trader that is now one of ten survivors of a village of one hundred would you stay put or jump in your boat and move away to a thriving culture like the Aztecs or Mayans? Except you don’t know that now you’re immune but still could be infectious to your new neighbors. I’m not saying that it’s any better or worse, just pointing out that survivors or traders could spread a European disease in advance of the Spanish ‘invasion’ (another issue of historical inaccuracy because the Spanish used an existing civil war to overthrow the Aztec royalty and then took advantage of the infighting between tribes to secure their own dominance). Sadly the records of the post classical Mayan and early Aztec eras are very limited, but look at the Greek Empire after the death of Alexander the Great, they influenced nearly every culture after them and 400 years or more later there were still cities and entire regions outside of Greece that had more traditional Greek culture than their more modern neighbors with regions that have greater geographical isolation lasting longer. So why do people assume that after the collapse of the Mayan empire that the Aztecs took over everything and within 600 years every tribe followed their ways? It is not unreasonable to assume that one or more isolated cities could have maintained a stable population after the classical Mayan period and preserved similar traditions up until 1511. With the breakdown of roads and canals to the more rough sections of the Yucatán it is possible to see a Mayan community being forgotten or ignored by the rising Aztecs as they focused on developing a swamp into one of the largest cities in Central America among others. Even in the 1500s some islands in the Mediterranean still had customs closure to classical Roman or Greek simply because they were too much trouble for expanding powers like the Moors or Turks to occupy, similar to how rugged islands like Papua New Guinea have been largely left to their native inhabitants. Even today many expeditions to explore old Mayan or Aztec sites fail due to injuries and limited supplies so in 750 it is likely that they wouldn’t have bothered trying to restore routes to other cities because their own survival was the priority. Today it’s difficult to imagine a complete collapse because we have machines and nutritious food that can last 20 years, but we have come close with the Spanish Flu, Dust Bowl, and Great Depression within living memory yet if we didn’t have the railroad to move supplies and tractors to rapidly build wind breaks and plant vegetation the southern plains of Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas may still be recovering with parts being deprived so badly of topsoil that they became deserts. From recent studies it appears a similar situation occurred in the later Mayan period where a drought combined with over usage lead to massive crop failures and subsequent changes in cultural focus from a network of supporting cities to many self-sufficient cities and eventually the means of productive travel became too damaged or overgrown. We’re seeing it today, where infrastructure is failing with notable disasters like the Minneapolis bridge collapse or the numerous train derailments here in Boston, if this happens in a modern civilization that has enough food supply and mechanical assistance, imagine maintaining a road or canal network without even a wheel barrel or steel shovel while also facing malaria, nearly daily rains, high temperatures, and the concern of attack from other small tribes.

[@kevinnaber790]

@@Cargoshots it doesn’t make it better, just adds another plot hole and historical error as the only early encounter with the Spanish that involved a larger early galleon was Cortez’s expedition in 1518 which was in the north with the Aztecs. I agree with Nick that this is a result of Mel Gibson not caring about history. It would have been better to show the fall of the Aztecs where you have mass human sacrifices because of unrest and European diseases. To be able to settle the Caribbean the ancient people had to have decent canoes or other form of water transportation. Historians and anthropologists estimate that the Caribbean began being settled around 5000 BCE so have been traveling over water for 6000 years before the Spanish arrive so would have knowledge and even trade with Cuba and other islands.

[@kevinnaber790]

@@PaulZink exactly, from the models used for the ships it appears to be an early galleon with the high forecastle and 3 masts with additional sails on the bow sprit, by 1540 Spain had large fleets of 3-6 deck galleons moving goods to and from the Americas. Even in 1493 when the first permanent colony was established on Hispaniola they had enough ships or room to bring over 1000 colonists. The Caravel was designed in the 1470s, so they improved on it until the Galleon came about around 1510 with early models being a modified caravel hull maintaining the two decks below the main with the higher upper decks and additional mast while later models introduced more flush planking, a more pronounced keel, and additional decks including a dedicated interior gun deck following English privateering and dedicated naval artillery following the defeat of the Spanish Armada. The Galleon was unique as it developed in between methods of naval warfare, wether to sink or board the enemy similar to the Dreadnaught when the tactics changed from broadside to range, maneuver, and speed. Open ocean navies like England and Norway quickly realized the impracticality of boarding an enemy vessel in rough open seas so developed distanced attack options while more calm seas or coasts like the Mediterranean or English Channel made boarding naval combat more economical because you often got a ship added to your force when you succeeded that could be repaired relatively quickly as there may be only one hole from your ram or some damaged rigging depending on your method of reducing the enemy’s speed. The Galleon was a blend of two naval combat doctrines that gave it a distinct shape but also made it prone to capsizing due to some of the huge treasure galleons having up to four upper decks for crew and additional guns allowing for more room in lower decks for cargo but made them too top heavy for rough seas like the equatorial Atlantic especially close to the Caribbean where the shallow depth often makes it treacherous for deep draft vessels in heavy seas.

[@soren9310]

@@PaulZink The Spaniards under Cortez made contact with the Mayan first, only to have them point them towards the Aztecs...it took 20 years for the Spaniards to return to Yucatan...any more questions?

[@ghastlyghandi4301]

I’m pretty sure Mel Gibson wanted to make an Aztec movie but at some point someone messed up and they accidentally got a bunch of Mayan themed stuff but they still had a full script so he was like “screw it, there’s no difference anyway it’s all the same”. Truly a resourceful visionary, thank you Gibson!

[@FerroMagelock]

Even if it is inaccurate, the fact it is a story about 1st nation people, starring an authentic cast, is something that should be lauded.

[@juanmanuelpenaloza9264]

Please refer to 4:35

[@isuriadireja91]

well, y'know...for those who cannot do...they EASILY S#!T on those who do.

[@glen7016]

this movie sets back the Mayan people by 100 years. Gibson is a liar at the expense of the Mayans.

[@glen7016]

@@scintillam_dei where is your proof? I get it they were no disney princesses. I never said that, you said it.

[@glen7016]

@@scintillam_dei too long didn't read. KZbin comment section is not meant for the "forensic" investigation you seek

[@HumanHamCube]

I always kind of saw this movie as being an amalgam of different times and peoples. Rather than a historical film. I watch it in the same lens as inglorious bastards. The inaccuracies aside I find it to be very unique and a solid film. The story is structured, the technical filmmaking is superb. the characters are solid. The actors are put through a lot. And the baddies are scary as hell. I think its a good movie.

[@tumsfestival8027]

You don’t see the problem with a film maker, changing history and affecting the general public’s view of an entire regions history? 21:12 listen to what he says. This is the problem.

[@HumanHamCube]

@@tumsfestival8027 i understand your point totally.

[@coincidencecontrol]

I just watched the movie, thought it was awesome. The ending was hilarious though (made zero sense indeed) and there were numerous other moments that I was highly skeptical of. so after the movie did some reading and also just landed here on this very informative video. I don't place that kind of blame on Mel Gibson, if you want to learn something about history you should hit the books and not watch exciting action movies. 100% will watch and enjoy again.

[@EditorialJoe]

@@tumsfestival8027 Nah, I don't. People who watch anything Hollywood makes that expect to reasonably 'learn' anything are rubes, and will essentially believe anything. If it wasn't Mel, it would be someone else. If you watch a cinema blockbuster thinking you're in HIST203, your brain is already mush. I hate Hollywood as much as any reasonable person, but the gullibility of the masses isn't Hollywood's fault.

[@jeffpostman9928]

I think it's supposed to be a dramatized ('apocalyptic' if you will) depiction of postclassical mayan civilization.

[@edwindejesús7]

Anyone else super happy to see AlternateHistoryHub 🤣😲?!

[@BionicAK]

YES

[@juanmanuelpenaloza9264]

Edwin De Jesús The Poet Cody's Ohioan voice

[@pacificstatesofamerica]

Edwin De Jesús The Poet Yes!!!!

[@redwings0142]

MEEEEEE!!!!!!

[@jakevdv8377]

yes i am mate, yes i am.

[@tomben6180]

This fella really doesn’t like Gibson, lol.

[@DeadCanuck]

He dislikes Mel Gibson almost as much as Gibson dislikes the JEWS😶 God damnit Mel, you insane antisemite

[@mrawesome5386]

eat some sh T

[@Karthadasht]

it all needs to be around the jays ...

[@tomben6180]

@@mrawesome5386 😂 Hello Mel

[@MagnusTonitrum117]

I mean… can you blame him?

[@SJ-sh9vh]

Watch the documentary on the making of it,they actually done a ton of research, they are a solitary jungle tribe not Mayan…the mayans used to capture other tribes for slaves and rituals.

[@MVProfits]

I was so annoyed with this in the video. Even TODAY there are isolated primitive small tribes, yet somehow it was impossible then? The movie has quite a few historical miscues, but so does this video. Guy doesn't show himself as he's too busy putting other people's stuff down with a condescendent smirk. At least be accurate about it!

[@NickMachado]

The Mayans were basically gone by the time the aztec were at the height of their power. That isolated tribe could have been remnants of mayans seeing how the film is in the 1500s. The aztecs were known for capturing people and collecting tributes for human sacrifice. Even the depiction of the sacrifices on the pyramid were accurate. Most of the film is historically accurate, its just a fictional story.

[@Thebroshow13]

@@NickMachado mhm , this would make a great video game , we are a Mayan warrior and we capture people for human sacrifice and slavery . That’s a game I would play . Enough of ww2 ! Give other time periods the spot light .

[@IceDogXena]

@@Thebroshow13 No! More ww2

[@michaelrosen6814]

@@Thebroshow13 You war mongering homosexual, i spit on you thui.

[@horsemumbler1]

7:40 The Maya and Spanush didn't have contact until 1511. First contact between natives and Europeans was in 1492. Most of the people who died of smallpox never saw a white man.

[@franklaferriere5754]

First contact between Northeastern Canada/US First Nation peoples and Europeans now appear to predate Columbus by at least 3-5 centuries with archeological findings of Viking clan artifacts.

[@FLashman-cv5dn]

Totally agree horsemumbler1. We know from account of Cortes' expedition to Mexico that the slave girl Malintzin better known to history as La Malinche had been a slave to Mayans and Cortes' was presented to her by Mayans in 1519. Also reported in the Cortes' account is that it appears some Spaniards had also been ship wrecked prior to this and one apparently had gone native so to speak denounced Christianity and to all intent and purposes become a Maya. Anyone of these could have spread smallpox and other European diseases amongst the Maya. We also know that the Inca suffered a terrible pestilence resembling small pox in their lands several years before ever encountering Pizarro and this had probably rapidly spread south from Meso-America already occupied by the Spaniards rapidly crossing into South America. So having the Maya in Apocalypto suffering from Small pox is totally valid.

[@freshdj01]

@@FLashman-cv5dn Correct !

[@rohannalawade3227]

@@FLashman-cv5dn But Hernan Cortez has contact with Montezuma who was a Aztec King. Besides Smallpox is extremely contagious so it would have wiped out a chunk of their population. Idl about the account of European meeting the locals but wouldn't that mean then knew about rest of the world. There would have been a significant amount they would have learnt from that person and would know the motives of Spanish conquistadors.

[@silentlamb21]

The maya didn't die of smallpox before it was introduced by the spanish in 1519. Since this movie plays in that time, it probably should have taken the aztec instead of the maya.

[@thenymphomancer5592]

Watching for the 3rd time in about 5 years. Along with every other video on this channel. Love the content. Always excited for the next one! Hope they never stop!

[@35november]

I never even considered this to be a historical representation. Though I did love that final scene of the Spaniards showing up. The message being that all these trials and all these peoples battles and history is about to go mute

[@Pontius667]

It gave me chills, actually, knowing the great changes to come.

[@tapset]

They might've well had SS troops showing up an invading

[@Exeivier]

the overall consensus here in Mexico is that this (great) movie is Die Hard with Mayans. is so weird for me to see it being called historical.

[@dw13012]

@@Pontius667 great change? Haha when spanish took over, they became worse.

[@Mixxeru]

@@Pontius667 "Great changes", ah yes, beautiful slavery and colonization.

[@michaelharding6264]

A minor correction, Nick: "Corn and maize" at 2.48 - (Indian) corn is maize.

[@Scrum_Master_Revolution]

outside of the US, corn is another term for any cereal grain, while Maize is a specific crop.

[@michaelharding6264]

@@Scrum_Master_Revolution That's why I qualified Indian corn to be synonymous with maize, Forest.

[@NissanJames]

South American native maize is corn

[@NissanJames]

I thought he was referring to Indians (Hindi speaking) right term is native people of South America (natives for short)

[@michaelharding6264]

@@NissanJames The "Indian" in Indian corn refers to native people from the Americas, not from South Asia.

[@amandarobinson9509]

re: the smallpox part. You see the spanish ship approaching anchored at sea at the end of the movie. And there's no reason that has to be the FIRST spanish ship that's arrived there. So that little girl definitely could have had smallpox.

[@captainwasabi13]

this, 100%

[@deandodson3546]

It's a movie, chill. There were many things the locals had they did not understand how to deal with. Apaches cut flesh off and other things in order to maybe "receive" a vision quest. No one really knows and as Woody said, "You are a toy". Ease up. Ok Paco loco, suavesito.

[@rmacd7373]

Nah cause the spanish were still 600 years out from arrival. This really is a case of Gibson taking all the flashiest bits of history in the yucatan peninsula and his imagination and fusing them for one racist shmorgishborg that appropraites native history to develop a narrative that excuses white settlers.

[@EmazingGuitar]

Dean Dodson the content creator needs to chill....

[@hossesarse]

And just because the little girl appears to have smallpox, it could have been many other viruses, some even predating the arrival of Westerners.

[@HICKSKE]

I watched it after having never seen anything like it (nor since) having a not clue about the period and was pretty entertained. I thought it was a cool story and it was interesting to see a little more context- though there are inaccuracies but I didn't think this was a documentary.

[@AngelLopez-rl3yy]

The little girl was not real,she was a vision into the future

[@rafaelalodio5116]

That's was also the impression I got, she was a visage of their doom

[@BOONDOCK658]

i never knew that till now

[@jeffersonparsons5519]

Based on what? Your feelings?

[@simdoughnut659]

@@jeffersonparsons5519 based on the fact that the little girl spoke in a manner that no child, not even a child prodigy, would speak in. Not sure if you have kids or not, but 5 year olds aren't exactly prophetic speakers, and they certainly aren't going to say things like "Do you want to know how you're going to die?" then give you some trippy omen description of your death. It would be more like "You wanna know how you die, poopie, you die of poopie face. giggle".

[@jeffersonparsons5519]

@@simdoughnut659 if you say so

[@TheSighphiguy]

so when are you going to do one about the historical inaccuracies in Star Wars?

[@henryperez606]

This is the comment of the month thank you for this

[@mrains100]

In regards to the Star Trek transporter: You can go first.

[@MourningMoons]

Sigh Phi Guy for reals. What a dumb place to look for them. Lol Hollywood.

[@ehiggins360]

They’re aren’t any

[@essexclass8168]

Well for one none of the movies mentioned Tikal

[@CennoSoldier]

We’re just happy we got a movie about our ancestors tbh🤷🏿‍♂️

[@joshuaweaver3]

It may be historically inaccurate but still a great movie. This video makes it feel like people can't just enjoy a movie just because it isn't historically correct. Movies can take real historic events and put a creative twists on them and still make a great movie.

[@HialeahLiam]

I always assumed the smallpox scene was implying the Spanish had already arrived.

[@PrezVeto]

Well, that was a neighborhood tribe, apparently, so it would just mean that the Spaniards had already met some Americans who had a chain of contact with that tribe. They could've earlier made landing farther down the coast, for example, and word of the encounter somehow traveled more slowly than the smallpox. Either that or the main character civ just carried on despite the rather significant news of strange white people in big boats. Really though, I think we should view it as a simple narrative device. It's foreshadowing what's to come, both within the film (encounter with the Spanish at the end) and of what we know would follow for the Aztecs after the film ends.

[@TheRiiiight]

It's likely the plague had reached places before the Spainards physically arrived. Many native people would have had contact with Europeans and traveled their routes or visited allied tribes. Europeans documented going to places and wondering why the landscape was shaped like a garden with cultivated orchards and plants but no people could be found.

[@EMkilroy100]

That doesn’t look like small pox to me. It looks like bubonic plague. Which was present worldwide. Actually, there’s quite a few devastating diseases that look similar to smallpox.

[@evska2012]

Yes!

[@jonathanwebster7091]

There were a couple of Spanish people shipwrecked amongst the Maya before the conquest even happened. One even intermarried and had children with, and was integrated into the society of, one of the Mayan City-States. All several years before the Spanish made proper first contact with, and started conquering, the Mayan states.