I watched Netflix's Cleopatra so you don't have to... Episode 1

This was a hard watch. Let me know what else you would like to see in the comments.
Discord: / discord
Twitch: / stakuyi
Check the podcast and other platforms for more content here:
Podcast: historyofevery...
Patreon: / stakuyi
delicious coffee
tablowroasting...

[@z6a99c]

Thank you for your sacrifice.

[@stephenmcmillen186]

Press 'F' to pay respects.

[@Vitaedrinker]

F

[@miku_hoshino]

F

[@delta5-126]

F

[@CountryLifestyle2023]

F

[@KamiRecca]

Its Possible that Cleopatra was half martian. Just saying. Its not Impossible, hence it is Possible. All praise our Martian Queen!

[@thomascoffin3292]

Technically even if she was Martian, she'd still be of African descent because we all know that Africans colonized Mars before Neanderthals were extinct.

[@KamiRecca]

@@thomascoffin3292 yea, this is a academical truth well documented and accepted

[@swissarmyknight4306]

@@KamiRecca I don't care what they tell you in school; one time my grandma said Cleopatra was a Martian. "Cleopatra of Mars" lol

[@DeathMessenger1988]

In which case, she'd be just like Queen Tyr'ahnee. Now THAT is a case of Black Pharaoh that would make sense and be quite appealing, not pure nightmare fuel like Nyarlathotep or bullshit like this "documentary". XD

[@rezandrarizkyirianto-1933]

Absolutely not. Candace Flynn is the one and only queen of Mars

[@nella544]

7:10 You are mistaken. To the north, Gaul is entirely occupied by the Romans. Well, not entirely... One small village of indomitable Gauls still holds out against the invaders. And life is not easy for the Roman legionaries who garrison the fortified camps of Totorum, Aquarium, Laudanum and Compendium.

[@wanderlost7707]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@baranjan6969]

I like this comment so much

[@dogti2959]

I'm a simple woman : I appreciate any reference to Asterix I can see x)

[@blazeburner4039]

Thank you, for another gem like treasure island I missed

[@sirsudo0614]

A brave soul who walked into the darkness to keep us from having to

[@MonkeyJedi99]

"He died (inside) for us. Amen."

[@willmfrank]

Milo Rossi watched "Graham Hancock's Ancient Apocalypse" so we wouldn't have to. These guys are very close to forming a Legion of Netflix Mockumentary Superheroes.

[@bent1208]

And the Metatron. He got demonetized for a hot sec because of it.

[@cowboyboots9901]

not all heroes wear capes.

[@mohamedmadnia1907]

" I don't care what they tell you in school, Cleopatra was BLACK." Who in the F you think you talking about? ( who was born in Alexandria, Egypt in 69 B.C. into the Ptolemaic dynasty, was of Macedonian Greek ancestry) since when people that has Greek background was BLACK. At some point there was complaining about " White Washing" so what should thus be called?? " Dark Staining"

[@thomascoffin3292]

I've seen a lot of people over the years trying to say that the Macedonians would've had to marry into existing Egyptian nobility. Seems like none of them know how conquest and subsequent colonization works.

[@thomascoffin3292]

@Daniel Allan depends, Alexander basically crushed Egypt and then left Ptolemy in charge before buggering off. Once you've overthrown the old rulers, there's no need to use them to legitimize your new claim, especially when you're an appointed governor.

[@nevets2371]

To be fair, Egypt wasn't independent when it was conquered by Alexander, it was under the Persians.

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

Alexander had invaded Egypt and was welcomed like a God because the Egyptians had moaned under Persian rule. Ptolemy I had been one of Alexander's generals.

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

​@@thomascoffin3292 He didn't crush Egypt but freed it from the Persian.

[@gayanudugampola8973]

@@jensphiliphohmann1876 I wouldn't say free. More like... under new management.

[@FunFilmFare]

I think THE worst thing about that Netflix Cleopatra documentary to me is not even the casting, but all the modern-day anachronisms… 1. Antony and Octavius’ scraggly long hair and beards (most Roman men were clean shaven) 2. Ancient Egyptians wearing short hair, buzz cuts and Afros, not a single wig in sight 3. The modern-day music 4. Ancient royals saying “OK” “Yeah” “Hi” etc. Anachronisms might be OK in historical fiction, but not in a documentary. Documentaries by nature are obligated to be as historically accurate as possible.

[@thomascoffin3292]

I don't mind contemporary language in historical recreation, in fact I prefer it to everyone speaking with a fake British accent in grandiose Churchillian proclamations.

[@FunFilmFare]

@@thomascoffin3292 Agreed. For me contemporary language in historical drama is hit-or-miss. I think it worked in "The Great Gatsby" (2013), where that entire movie was extremely stylized with contemporary music and dramatic angles. Also Great Gastby takes place in the 1920s when the language wasn't that different from today. And of course I also love it in comedies like "History of the World".

[@MtnNerd]

The wig thing is especially weird considering how many black people do that today. And why depict her with untamed hair and not intricate braids?

[@opopad]

This cleopatra shit is weird

[@FunFilmFare]

@@MtnNerd I know right? I initially thought Cleopatra's Afro was gonna be a wig.

[@fakjbf3129]

6:13 I love that “Rome” is just the literal city while “Egypt” is the entire kingdom rather than just the capital of Alexandria. Almost like if they showed an actual map of Rome’s actual sphere of influence their entire point would be flipped on its head.

[@GrndAdmiralThrawn]

The year is 1941. The emerging power of Washington is about to enter onto the world stage.

[@manos7958]

@@GrndAdmiralThrawn To be fair, that statement is true. I'd suggest changing the year to 1945 at least, to convey the intended message. :)

[@Aredel]

@@manos7958 Nah. 2023. When the US already has most of the world under their thumb.

[@manos7958]

@@Aredel Well, the 2023 situation seems to be closer to 300 AD or so to be honest.

[@Talshere88]

@@GrndAdmiralThrawn The year is 1882, the emerging power of Great Britain began a conflict with the the stable power of Egypt.

[@ЯнаДанаилова-х1э]

I think the most insulting thing was just the way the producer, director and the main actress reacted to the whole thing. Imagine gaslighting and insulting an entire country and telling them they're racist. Imagine an Egyptian calling the director and telling them that Cleopatra wasn't black but Greek and then said director to scoff at you and reply back "You are Egyptian! Why would Cleopatra being Greek be a good thing to you?". They showed they didn't care about the truth or the Egyptian people at all with these actions and it's disgusting. Edited some mistakes*

[@fett713akamandodragon5]

Honestly it's insulting to Greece as well.

[@inggasmith]

Cause they are truth hurts. And the director is Persian.

[@inggasmith]

​@@fett713akamandodragon5 Greece is a nation not an nationality

[@fett713akamandodragon5]

@@inggasmith It's a country yes, I'm aware, the second sentence was what my reply was to.

[@Psy_Ro]

well some documentaries inevitably will show a country racism. If a documentary was made about jim crow era politics and effects and todays effects, the us would be in a pretty bad light

[@feedfancier]

3:45 We don't know her racial heritage, therefore we know exactly what her heritage was. The only rule these people follow is cynical manipulation.

[@Pantology_Enthusiast]

I mean, we know she was half Greek, that's a start 😂

[@elchudcampeador5642]

@@Pantology_Enthusiast She was full Greek

[@Stachelbeeerchen]

We don't have her skin in a immaculate preserved condition but what we do know is that she was more light than dark skinned. Her exact melanine count down to her complete genetic makeup we do not know so just stating "no matter what they tell you Cleopatra was black!" is ignorant and anti science

[@Sivrn-Val]

She was 100% greek. Remember, the Ptolemy line was *heavy* into inbreeding.

[@Pantology_Enthusiast]

@@Sivrn-Val probably. We know her father was Greek, we _think_ her mother was Greek (if only because that family was more inbred than the Habsburgs).

[@Janus5711]

This is the same Netflix that made a "documentary" about the three mile island nuclear event. The events were distorted, the people speaking were questionable, and the editing style was the same as investigative murder-porn. Netflix is trash. Thanks for your sacrifice

[@danielhatcher9840]

They’re documentary on Flight 370 was no better. They focused way too much on the conspiracy theorists instead of the actual evidence.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Remember when the Discovery family of channels were the go-to for factual documentaries? I remember those day, but I am also old. Now that family of channels is full of "reality" shows.

[@Bloodnut4life]

Definitely not the platform to go to if you’re looking for well researched and well thought out documentaries.

[@valentinmitterbauer4196]

On a historical note: Netflix' "Ancient Apocalypse" (or is it 'Netflixes'? 'Netflix's'?) which i basically Erich-von-Däniken-extra-light. Miniminuteman did a fantastic analysis of the series and how pseudo- scientific or outright wrong it is. Yet according to Netflix it's a docu, while in reality it's a Robert E. Howard fanfic at best and conspiracy-theories-inspiring infotainment at worst.

[@the-door]

They also made a new one about Waco Texas, and from the trailer they just make things up, and except it as truth and fact.

[@Soguwe]

It would have been fine if they declared it as the fan fiction it is There's a whole Genre of historical fiction out there, this would have fitted right in But they just _had_ to ride the wave of contoversy-marketing

[@Pantology_Enthusiast]

Honestly, this is why I ignore it. It's just weird historical fan-fiction with a budget. ... It also feels a bit racist for swapping races to push a race-related agenda. "This person was _one of our kind_ and she was great because she was _one of our kind."_ I feel like Cleopatra has been disrespected enough by history, she shouldn't be dragged into some agenda-driven... thing.

[@TheArklyte]

Not only fitted, but been a massive success. There is a huge demand for court politics show after GoT shat itself and died.

[@AlexKS1992]

To me it’s a vanity project and not a good one.

[@TheArklyte]

@@AlexKS1992 /cough/ Man in High Castle /cough/ before it shat itself in the end /cough/ Such shows have audience, there is demand AND there are no big shows running currently. All big players ended. There is no king of streaming right now.

[@AlexKS1992]

@@TheArklyte I watched a video not to long ago showing the first minutes of the first episode and I wasn’t impressed.

[@matthewsander5887]

I had a history professor that liked to speculate and entertain possibilities as facts. The class was a headache and a half

[@Lurtz_s]

Speculating is fun. Presenting those speculations as fact is poor academia.

[@palehorseman8386]

Don't forget that you will be graded on this fan fiction

[@ashwinnmyburgh9364]

There's nothing wrong with speculation.

[@RoninDave]

speculation is fine but possibilities as facts is just wrong

[@John-fk2ky]

@@ashwinnmyburgh9364 as long as it is not treated as indisputable fact. At that point you’re pretty much lying since you don’t know if the speculation is true or not. Personally, I prefer speculations on alternatives to what actually happened so I don’t fall into the trap of thinking events HAD to happen exactly as they did because that’s what actually happened.

[@Devicedinput]

"If i made a drinking game of how many times they say "possibilty", i would die of alcohol poisioning" Fantastic lineXD

[@Scorpion51123314512]

Alexander the great: First time? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ingiford175]

Actually, if you had a shot of water each time, you might die of water poisoning.

[@keldone3186]

​@@ingiford175 not a thing

[@ingiford175]

@@keldone3186 Read up on it, it throws off the salt (electrolyte) balance in your body. Look up water intoxication

[@icedriver2207]

Episode one

[@DownWithBureaucracy]

Crazy enough, showing the court as Greek would have been a great contrast to show how Cleopatra was an "Egyptian" ruler in the sense she bothered to engage with the culture while the rest of the ruling class didn't

[@adiabeticjedi3278]

Not gonna lie. I feel that Ubisoft portrayed a better Egypt and Cleopatra than this show has. Please do more of this. Ive got too much shit on my plate to rant over poorly portrayed history, but still really want to. So thank you Buddy.

[@dimitriosdrossidis9633]

Ehhhh.... I don't want to be that guy, but to be pedantic for a moment, Ubisoft itself also had some big issues with describing Egypt, or rather the Egyptian politics of this time, even if I don't think it's quite as bad as something that labels itself a documentary!

[@adiabeticjedi3278]

@@dimitriosdrossidis9633 Oh yes im well aware. I was just making the comparison of the two medias, both not being good representations of accurate information. However a videogame in my opinion being more accurate than a "documentary".

[@juliusmuller8529]

​@@adiabeticjedi3278 and Ubisoft has a disclaimer

[@adiabeticjedi3278]

@@juliusmuller8529 yes, yes they do. Thanks for pointing that out.

[@valentinmitterbauer4196]

Freaking Asterix depicted ancient aegyptian ethnic makeup better than this (bronze skinned people with some occasional black africans among them)

[@gabrielethier2046]

I don't think these people understand that the fact that Cleopatra was greek is largely why she is so well remembered, considering her death marks the end of the Hellenistic age

[@stevenschnepp576]

There's quite a bit these people don't understand.

[@Upintheairideas]

Good point

[@robertmiles1603]

I was always under the impression that that was marked by the Roman victory at the Battle of Corinth.

[@mushroommagic1697]

The favorite literary genre of those people is fan fiction, so I am not surprised they don't know almost anything about history, politics, society.

[@gabrielethier2046]

@@robertmiles1603 that's the beginning of the end

[@panqueque445]

The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that they had the chance to make a proper, high quality series about Cleopatra. What we know about her is already more than enough to make an interesting show. Absolutely no need to make all this stuff up.

[@Knightshospitaller]

Metatron also watched the “documentary” and he had the same reaction. I can’t wait to see the pictures your wife took.

[@OscarOSullivan]

He had to hold laughter in

[@Real_History]

The issue of her mother is overblown. Ptolemy XII ‘s only properly identifiable wife was Cleopatra V. We know for certain that she had at least one daughter, Berenike IV - Cleopatra VII’s older sister. The ‘issue’ comes from the fact that she disappears from the historical record in 69/68 BCE, right around the time of Cleopatra VII birth. This has led some to speculate that she may have died in or shortly after childbirth. Because we are unsure of the timing, we cannot say for certain that she is the mother of Cleopatra VII. However, though Cleopatra V disappears from the historical record, there are attestations to one ‘Cleopatra Tryphaena’ who was co-ruler of Egypt in the year 58BCE and died in 57 BCE. If Cleopatra V did die in 68BCE, this Cleopatra Tryphaena must have been an otherwise unknown daughter. This has led to historians call her Cleopatra VI Tryphaena, which is why the last Cleopatra is Cleopatra VII. HOWEVER, there is a dedication in a temple that has been dated to 57 BCE that speaks of Cleopatra Tryphaena as Ptolemy XII’s wife rather than his daughter. This has led many modern historians to conclude that the mysterious Cleopatra Tryphaena is actually Cleopatra V. If Cleopatra V was alive as late as 57 BCE, she was almost certainly the mother of not only Berenike IV, but of all Ptolemy XII’s children… including Cleopatra VII. Some might respond that maybe Cleopatra was born out of wedlock with a concubine or something. Realistically, if that was the case we would know about it because you can bet your bottom dollar that the Romans, who said some pretty vicious things about her, would not have missed the opportunity to call her a bastard. So you see, it’s not that we have no idea who Cleopatra’s mother was, it’s just that we cannot say for absolute certainty, but we have a pretty fucking good idea.

[@CrystalGoddess90]

THANK YOU 👏👏👏 Cleopatra V was MOST LIKELY the mother of Cleopatra VII. It's true that we can't know with 110% certainty, but we can guess with 90+ certainty. What makes us unsure about Cleopatra VI is that the numbers are added by historians. The Cleopatra women were just called Cleopatra this or Cleopatra that during their lifetimes.

[@janegael]

The podcasts are wonderful but I really love this format. You're fun to watch because you're so animated. Gabby putting in her 2 cents worth would be awesome.

[@joelb8653]

I couldn't agree more.

[@ajvanmarle]

14:00 I can tell you why. Because the truth would have broken their narrative: Caesar probably kept Arsinoe alive as insurance against Cleopatra. To make sure she didn't stab him in the back, or try to play tricks with the food shipments to Rome. Arsinoe still had a claim on the throne of Egypt. Keeping her alive was a message to Cleopatra: "Keep in line, or I'll have you replaced with your sister."

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

Arsinoe was scheduled to be executed after Caesar’s triumph (like Vergingetorix) since he has been on the opposite side of the civil war. But when the Roman people saw this 17 year old girl walking as a prisoner in the triumph they felt sympathy for her and wanted Caesar to spare her. She didn’t exactly seem a threat like Vergingetorix and Caesar was ever the populist. Also Cleopatra had younger brother (yes second younger brother) as co-ruler that Caesar could have used if he really needed to. But at this point I image both of them were hoping she would be succeeded by their son anyway. So not much reason to work against each other. Cleopatra had her younger brother killed shortly after Caesar died (well I guess it could have been illness) so maybe Caesar was asking for her to keep him alive. But it was probably because I can’t mortality was high that she could not get rid of her brother before her son was old enough (Egyptians would not have accepted a woman as sole monarch). And seeing Caesar being stabbed by people he trusted maybe hastened her decision to kill her brother. But it’s true that the liberatores and Antonius at first used Arsinoe to ensure her good behavior.

[@sanddry738]

Calling these sorts of media “documentaries” is absolutely insulting. Falsifying history (good and bad) is such a scummy thing especially in today’s climate of disinformation and bad faith. Honestly thanks for taking one for the team because all the stuff behind this show makes me want to roll my eyes out of my head

[@kane357lynch]

Black people need to be coddled and lied to

[@patdaley9098]

So you didn't watch it! You just take some idiot's word for it.

[@mushroommagic1697]

It is fanfiction, I don't get why those people try to push fan fiction as history.

[@kevinboros7427]

It's so beautiful that I can imagine Confucius as being a white Swedish female, so empowering! Reality really CAN be whatever I want!

[@ashwinnmyburgh9364]

To be fair, that is basically what they said in the "documentary."

[@j.p.vanbolhuis8678]

It would make Confucius a lot more popular, both in the west and in China.

[@christinecastro7212]

Personally I imagine Confucius to be a middle aged Latina … with three cats like me…

[@OscarOSullivan]

@@christinecastro7212 A lot of Americans (jokes on them) will say but no you are not as to them Spanish speakers are brown.

[@OscarOSullivan]

So Cleopatra’s family were the original Hasburg’s

[@divanbuys1484]

This show can be categorized under 3 simple words... "sheer f*cking hubris!"

[@kane357lynch]

Afrocentric bullshit

[@CallofDutyBlackOps28]

As an Ancient Egyptian fanatic, ... this movie drove me insane.

[@jahbless4ever]

Why?

[@furkans.9749]

There are whole a lot more in ancient Egypt before greek invasion, you can keep sane.

[@David-ox7ps]

As a black brit, I think the casting was perfect

[@CallofDutyBlackOps28]

@@David-ox7ps perfect for what exactly? the Egyptian Government is sueing them.

[@David-ox7ps]

@@CallofDutyBlackOps28 Good to see representation on screen😀

[@Rikalonius]

11:48 I've said this in other places, but I'll say it here also. Nobody has yet to take on depicting one of Cleopatra's most daring and heroic maneuvers. That is, the quest to get to the palace and into Caesar's presence in the first place. At the time, where Cleopatra was being blocked by her brother's army, she took a small boat with her Greek bodyguard and a couple attendants and they made it 100 miles through crocodile and mosquito infested swamplands, with her brother's agents looking for her, to get to the Alexandrian harbor, and then past the guards to get into Caesar's presence. That's some epic Hidden Fortress level heroes journey, but nobody has yet to depict it. You want to make her look like a boss, that's the way, not through stupid sword fights.

[@patdaley9098]

Oh, so you didn't watch the docudrama! That's obvious.

[@RaelNikolaidis]

They turned Egypt into Wakonda. They should’ve given Cleo superpowers too. I mean, at this point, why the hell not? 😅

[@antoniakilby3763]

This is why I really hate when a TV company decides to recreate history. I actually ran into someone who thought that the CW's Reign was how it all actually happened right down to the clothing. That statement gave me a headache that lasted for quite some time. Reading historical fiction might be fun, however it's fiction, not history. History is not being taught at this point. We have whitewashed it, cleaned it up and made it so you don't feel attacked or guilty about what our forefathers did. I call BS. I'm very aware of our history. It's not exactly something that we should be standing up and be proud of. Now we want to deny it. It's truly interesting that Germany when it teaches about the atrocities they committed during World war II is open and honest, and the children don't seem to have any problem accepting what the generations before them did. We need to get back to teaching history on a fact-based curriculum because a lot of what is being taught now is fiction.

[@elbolainas4174]

What's CW?

[@antoniakilby3763]

@@elbolainas4174 it's a channel in America that puts out shows basically for tweens and young adults. The Reign was set up in the French court with trying to tell the story of Mary Queen of Scots and her husband. All of the girls were dressed in modern prom dresses and we're older than when Mary went back to Scotland after her husband died. The storyline was complete and total nonsense and yet I have run into people who believe that that is actually history. It gives me a headache having to deal with someone like that. The problem is it's not their fault. History is not being taught in school. It made Philippa Gregory's foray into television look like an actual well-written well designed history and she writes complete and total fiction. Philip Gregory the white queen was referred to in historical clothing groups as Zipper watch due to the fact that in under 10 minutes you saw your first zipper up the back of a 13th century gown. On a lead character. And that show if I am remembering correctly was produced by the BBC.

[@buddermonger2000]

I mean, in real terms, there are things to be proud of in all of our histories. You take the good with the bad. You can't just black wash it either and say it's nothing to be proud of. Holding the past up to modern standards is itself a form of anachronism. Though I do agree that most history that is taught is done with either an agenda or keeping the details. For the children I understand. They don't really have the experience to really comprehend complex topics and so we simplify it for them. But once you're like 12 years old you can have real history. Even then, they won't properly understand the gravitas of what's happening in front of them in many circumstances. Just replay an M rated or Pegi 18 game you played as a kid for proof of that.

[@antoniakilby3763]

@@buddermonger2000 agendas, general stupidity, fear of the truth, actually understanding what's happened and political agendas. Do not help the situation. I was in the third grade and every Sunday night a show called World at War which covered World War II straight down to all of the atrocities was on. I also remember watching the national news during the Vietnam War. And what it taught me has served me very well in handling the atrocities that are still all too frequent. There's an old statement and I do not know who it is from but it holds true even today and that is those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it. My father was a boy scout leader and did classes on American government , the constitution and the Bill of Rights. They always were parents present and at the end of these classes the parents usually would come up and admit that they had no idea about 90% of what my father covered. The education system here is badly broken. I'm still reprogramming my brain from a lot of my early education to bring it up to the truth and getting rid of all of those ridiculous myths we were taught in elementary school. Having worked as a trainer for several companies teaching teenagers coming into the workforce, just the basics depressed me. It's sad when a high school senior cannot count back the correct change let alone have a working knowledge of the language they were raised in. Growing up America was sixth in education on the world seeing and has dropped in the last 30 plus years to 25th or 26th.

[@God_of_RDA]

There are so many blue hairs nowadays that it's completely impossible to get away with any real history. I remember one time we were reading the Crucible in my English class and this one girl called John Proctor sexist for getting mad at Abigail Williams. The same Abigail, mind you, that just threatened to murder his wife and dance on her grave. We're socially fucked man. Big time.

[@bobohm21]

Cleopatra sounds like a solid way to waste a few hours and lose a few iq points.

[@Praephyr]

Typical Netflix content

[@sxeptomaniac]

The melodrama really is so weird. My wife was watching some of the show, and I walked by as Cleopatra was just so very shocked and hurt that her sister betrayed her at some point. I just started laughing, knowing enough about the Ptolemies to remember that they were constantly betraying and killing each other. They seem determined to make the show a hagiography.

[@buddermonger2000]

It was "queen cleopatra" you can't depict her as the whore of the Romans she was. Though it's worth noting that a lot of historical dramas tend to be such depictions. Documentaries are still made by people for an audience. You either demonize them, or idolize. No in-between because then there's no real story to bring people in. Nuance is never easy and doesn't play well with audiences.

[@manboy4720]

new word of the day: 'hagiography'. i'll remember that for scrabble.

[@CallofDutyBlackOps28]

Cleopatra's elder sister was really that, her middle sister was actually rather nice to Cleopatra, all things considered.

[@davidwooden3878]

"A Royal Family is not like other families." Princess Irulan, Dune

[@j.p.vanbolhuis8678]

@@buddermonger2000 Then you should not call it a documentary but a "historical" drama... You really want to know how much fun such families could be? Go research the Harem battles in imperial China, in the Ottoman empire. and every polygamous empire and kingdom in history. Generally it is pure poison

[@Nemo-Nihil]

The Royal Diary of Cleopatra (a historical fiction book for pre-teen girls) did a better job at telling Cleopatra's story than this did

[@OscarOSullivan]

Horrible histories did a better job

[@arishok5091]

​@@OscarOSullivan Horrible Histories gotta be one of the best historical shows of the 2000s.

[@OscarOSullivan]

@@arishok5091 The books as well

[@blankistblankophobe9078]

But Stak, I think you're forgetting the absolute, irrefutable historical source of Some Old Lady's Grandma here. We all know that some random grandma always trumps thousands of historical documents, depictions, statues, firsthand accounts, and a well documented lineage.

[@Scudboy17]

The way they handle the "possible" explanation of Cleopatra's ancestry and feelings reminds me a LOT of how the Ancient Aliens crowd always throw the "possiblity" that it was aliens. Same detachment from reality and established histkry.

[@Canev821]

I feel like ancient aliens is more likely

[@tomhenry897]

The aliens are more real then Netflix Cleopatra

[@RoninDave]

aliens aren't politically motivated

[@therat1117]

Is nobody going to ever mention that we have busts of Cleopatra to show what her face looked like, and on top of that descriptions from multiple sources of what her personality, appearance, and mannerisms were like? This is not someone we can 'just imagine', we know!

[@JDoe-gf5oz]

We may never know!

[@azurai3934]

Well Jada Smith isn’t beautiful so at least they got that bit right 💀

[@j.p.vanbolhuis8678]

@@azurai3934 she's kinda meh

[@patdaley9098]

How many contemporary busts of Cleopatra are there? Joyce Tyldesley, author of the best biography of Cleopatra, does not think the bust and coins are likely to look like Cleopatra. They are too conventional and stylized. I'll take her opinion over yours.

[@j.p.vanbolhuis8678]

@@patdaley9098 So you have a person who has already determined what the answer should be, because... Just because... And you have multiple other sources including statues that say the answer is otherwise. But because those other sources may suffer from "stylisation", you decide to belief the person that has shaped history in accordance to her style.... Ok. Whatever.

[@Pantology_Enthusiast]

So this is less "documentary" and more "alternate history, historical fiction as a documentary-style drama"?

[@pumkin610]

One thing is for certain: it's certainly not a documentary lol

[@keldone3186]

just watch it and have fun. Like everything netflix does. You want something depicting "reality"? Go out on the streets and confront your history and problems with the history and problems of other times. In the end you will realise history is happening right now every day and the past of some thousand years ago will ALWAYS just be assumptions of some random people... Just as nowadays we STILL do not know our own present history and what actually is real and what not. In the end: They had to eat every day. You have to eat every day. they had nothing to eat and started killing to eat. You will do the same

[@stanisawzokiewski3308]

She is training with SHARP swords. Youre not gonna learn swordsmanship if all your training partners are DEAD

[@pcbassoon3892]

Lol I was so annoyed by her sword fighting that I didn't even think about that.

[@robertmiles1603]

What basis even is there for the idea that the historic Cleopatra did any sword fighting? Just what even made them think that that would make sense? Not just in-and-of itself but because royalty didn't have to be bothered to do that kind of thing. That was the point. And even if women were physically capable and truly tough, who's to say a trainer wouldn't accidentally kill her when she was young if she told him not to hold back and he were an experienced swordsman?

[@straight-from-the-south]

The beauty of cleopatra is that anyone can imagine her in there own way? Ok i want her to be Korean, my grandfather told me to do so...

[@Knightmare919]

What Netflix did was so stupid this is like saying no matter what they tell you at school Abraham Lincoln was a vampire hunter. 😅

[@haotatyan]

He isnt?

[@axelord4ever]

It's funny how the Asterix BD's depiction of Cleopatra is actually closer to reality than... this. Well, maybe it's a bit hyperbolic, but at least René Goscinny made it very clear to not take things too seriously. I'm only marginally a 'history buff' and Ancient Egypt was never a particular section of history I cared that much about, but some things were _highly_ questionable. Roman-related stuff was all over the goddamn place too, which is something I was better able to spot.

[@sprad9321]

From one Kentuckian who loves history to another, you will never be forgotten for your struggles, and brave contribution to preserving History.

[@EmilyJelassi]

Thank you for sacrificing yourself and watching this “documentary” so we don’t have to! By your description, the whole thing would drive me crazy! I don’t understand how they could possibly call this a documentary when they’ve changed so much!

[@LetMeBe3]

I’ve heard much criticism about this. Love to see you covering this

[@ernestasluza1787]

The line "forget what they tought you at school" indicates that's gonna be a sci-fi series :D

[@Cr-cm9kc]

Basically, since I'm greek they've appropriated my culture and put it on Netflix, sweet.

[@nevets2371]

But you're white, so that makes it okay

[@Cr-cm9kc]

@@nevets2371 What's white? You mean Caucasian? No, never been to the Caucasus, pretty sure I'm Mediterranean.

[@nevets2371]

@@Cr-cm9kc you're European, so that must mean you're white, just like how Egypt is in Africa, and so Egyptians must be black. (This and the last comment were jokes in case you didn't get that btw)

[@HAMRADIO-w3g]

@@nevets2371 Medditerians are a mixture of white and arab.

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

​@@HAMRADIO-w3g you seem to forget that Arabic does not compose the entirety of the middle east's ethnicity

[@2foot_giant]

Really appreciate all the content you make.

[@Getpojke]

I had a quick watch of the first episode & what crossed my mind was that "The Life Of Brian" seemed more historically accurate.

[@TikiDragon1]

I thought that the Library of Alexandria had been underfunded for the past centuries and had to sell scrolls to the neighboring libraries to break even. So when it was burned, not much was actually lost. But I'm remembering what I heard years ago

[@kenzoph92]

When Cleopatra was on the throne during the Roman civil war. Rome was almost at its peak in a military sense. By the time Octavian became Augustus Rome had 60 Legions (+/- 300k legionnaires and auxiliaries). Lol “emerging power”😂

[@dogloversrule8476]

It’s amazing that they can call this thing a documentary

[@Aredel]

Well an Egyptian legal team is suing them, so...

[@pcbassoon3892]

If they had just made a fictional show, it would make sense. But Jada Pinkett Smith would rather just claim an Egyptian person is black than pick an actual black historical figure and put a little bit of research into it.

[@dogloversrule8476]

@@pcbassoon3892 She could have done Harriet Tubman. She’s got a really interesting story

[@Charleyyy678]

@@dogloversrule8476but that would require effort and brainpower lmao

[@petriew2018]

i also think something very important that they left out was that the Greek's didn't displace a 'native egyptian' dynasty. They displaced a Persian one. There hadn't been a 'native egyptian' pharaoh in 3 centuries preceding her. Any upper class egyptians left from pre-ptolemaic times likely would have been Persians. The only high status native egyptians left by this point was basically the old priesthood. Who weren't black anyway. This is important, because even if her real mother was someone from the royal court, the most likely option is another greek. Followed by someone of Persian descent. Followed by someone who'd look like a modern berber if there'd been some seriously scandalous shit going down even for that fucked up dynasty..... and if by some miracle her mother had been black, that would have meant her mother was of a pretty low class and therefore would not have even been acknowledged by the Ptolomies. Her father had another daughter, so she'd have just been a complication in the succession if she wasn't somehow legitimate. They keep trying to push this idea that Cleopatra was this romanticized version of an 'african' queen and the Egypt was an 'African' empire. It wasn't and hadn't been for a long time. It's pure fantasy.

[@stuartbaxter-potter8363]

I've heard a lot about the "Not Cleopatra's fault" line, and the frustrating thing is, it could have made sense with the addition of another line, that the Pharaoh, as the embodiment of Osiris, would have been seen to be responsible for ensuring the Nile flood continued. This would follow nicely with the other line they were pushing about the Isis/Osiris pair. Except x2 Combo! Pharaoh was seen as Horus while they were alive and only Osiris after death. Except x3 Combo! Cleopatra wasn't even in CHARGE of Egypt yet. I wonder if they bothered with a script editor.

[@janet6421]

The Polemic dynasty is the historical basis of the Targaryens in Game of Thrones. Her grandfather married both his sisters and her father married his half sister/first cousin. In a dynasty that claims to be actual living gods, they keep close watch over parentage and keep the blood lines pure. Edit to add: The Egyptians believed that the Pharaoh was responsible for the flooding of the Nile and the fertility that it brought. Her father was deposed by the nobility for incompetent policy and by the people because of a drought. Her mother and eldest sister took power until sis (allegedly) killed mom and older brother executed oldest sis and married middle sis. Cleo married younger brother and civil war started. You don't need melodrama, there is lots of bloody drama in the documents from Rome, Greece, and surviving texts from Egypt that agree on this hot mess.

[@patrickmccarron2817]

The real story of how Arsinoe survived is actually way more interesting. Caesar had her walk in his triumph (military parade where war captives were strangled to death at the end) and the Roman crowd liked her so much they basically bullied Caesar into letting her live. Now, it’s entirely possible this was just a clever piece of Caesarean propaganda and the real reason was because it was advantageous to have an heir in Rome’s pocket if Cleopatra ever got out of line. But it’s based on the best sources we have today, and it’s important to remember that Caesar’s grip on power was never absolute. Rome during this period was also highly susceptible to rioting, so it’s very plausible Caesar would have caved to the crowd’s demands.

[@pcbassoon3892]

Wasn't she also really young during all this? I could be entirely wrong. My source is Drunk History.

[@patrickmccarron2817]

@@pcbassoon3892 I believe she was a teenager. You could also be thinking of the Numidian King Juba, who walked in the African triumph. He was supposedly around 6 years old and the crowd also demanded Caesar spare him.

[@rodmullen64]

As a vet, i wanna thank you for your service.

[@yogifpv839]

I'm treating this "documentary" like how I treat LOTR, DnD, and any fantasy films to just enjoy it and not focus on the realism that they are trying to portray. LOL

[@gorlack2231]

I can't hear about Pompey being decapitated without hearing Ciaran Hinds screaming "HE WAS A CONSUL OF ROME!"

[@alexnovak2669]

This is how I learned this is supposed to be a documentary. I thought it was supposed to be historical fiction. Ancient Aliens has competition.

[@Sirmatthaeus]

Oh god it actualy made it past the trailer...

[@PiousMoltar]

"they removed all of the Greek aspects, they're all black" Man it's not just that Cleopatra was Greek, the Egyptians weren't even black. They weren't even Arabs. They were just Egyptian. Some of them still exist even, I'm pretty sure. I hate how the actual ethnic Egyptians seem to be getting wiped from history by racist blacks and arabs.

[@rainmanslim4611]

I hope this becomes a regular video series

[@cariganpintalba9498]

I used to enjoy the Netflix docu-series, but it became obvious they were much more dramatized (i.e. factionalized) than Netflix cares to admit.

[@HellbirdIV]

Calling Netflix's Cleopatra a "documentary" is like calling Roland Emerich's "10,000 B.C." a documentary.

[@eXpriest]

Bring on the war mastodons.

[@hooda47]

Even if her mother and grandmother were Egyptian, Cleopatra wouldn't be black because guess what? Whether modern or and ancient, EGYPTIANS ARE NOT BLACK!

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

The people who believe this theory think that Cleopatra’s mother (or grandmother) was some sub Saharan concubine. Which doesn’t seem likely based on what she did look like and any lack of evidence. But it’s theoretically possible and why it’s bigger issue that everyone in Egypt is also portrayed like this and nobody is even mixed.

[@michaelkeha]

I'm surprised you didn't have a go at the Egyptian armor in this show with literal mop heads glued to it

[@christinecastro7212]

Yea that was so weird

[@michaelkeha]

@@christinecastro7212 it's funny how every review of this series I have seen has a go at the Roman armor in some specific scenes but ignores the weird fucking Egyptian armor and the one scene where the romans are in like semi Arab armor and have fucking scimitars

[@christinecastro7212]

@@michaelkeha very good point … yea what’s up with that did they have to use stuff laying around the prop department? And in the janitor closet?

[@michaelkeha]

​@@christinecastro7212 my guess is they just didn't give a shit and used whatever was the cheapest props they could get their hands on which is ironic given the armor that the Egyptians should be more likely wearing linothorax armor is comically cheap to make

[@AWindy94]

I don't know what I would do with my morbid curiosity, without the KZbinrs who are willing to watch the shit that I can't stand to view. Thank you for your contribution to society.

[@randommindz6782]

"so you don't have to" *Nostalgia Critic's lawyers (the chart guys actually) knocking*

[@arc210]

I’ve heard bad things about Netflix’s ‘mockumentary’ (let’s acknowledge it for what it really is), but I didn’t realise how awful and inaccurate it truly was. Thank you soo much for this video.

[@ZulqarnainAidil]

Damn. Another KZbinr talked about how Assassin’s Creed Origins, a game about some glowing ball by some ancient pre-human humans (who knows at this point) was more historically accurate than a Netflix documentary, putting aside the fact that it’s a Netflix documentary, I thought he was talking about the discovery tours. Watching this, I realise, the whole plot of the game was more historically accurate.

[@anthonyml7]

Unfortunately I did see it, and it was bad. Some people argue that the reason the Ptolemy's were so crazy, and violent was because of inbreeding which led to Egypt's down fall, but I also love how they totally ignored the idea of slavery / slaves in Egypt all together, especially when they brought up the way society was structured there. In other words, the Ptolemies including Cleopatra more than likely had slaves...

[@markstott6689]

I do enjoy your polite but firm disection of this historical anomaly. I'll be here for subsequent episodes. If you had read The Wheel of Time books I would have loved to see your break down of Season One. I suspect that it would have been incredibly entertaining.

[@brianjohnson5272]

This man deserves a purple heart for taking this hit to his sanity.

[@santtuahola325]

I thank you for doing this, please continue this series and especially Cleopatra as I didn't want to see it personally but I was curious what they told. I am not shocked how they made the history into their agenda fitting. But also whole 'I slept with your sister' part feels odd as if I recall she was spared during the RomanTriumph (possibly due some of her own act during it or because hey...she is Egyptian royalty and if needed could be used to usurp Cleopatra if she acted against the Rome's interest).

[@nhyalg4076]

If anyone wants a more realistic retelling of her life that’s also a fantastic read, there’s Memoirs of Cleopatra by Margaret George. It’s extremely well-researched and an enjoyable book.

[@Jacob-McGregor]

The Romans appear to be wearing Light Imperial Armour from Skyrim at 9:00 xD

[@Spartan93ec]

I salute you history man

[@frabre1810]

Actually, the lack of flooding was always on the pharao, from the populace's perspective. So, even now Netflix defended her.

[@FancyRPGCanada]

I love that Assassin’s Creed Origins is the most accurate depiction of Cleopatra 😂. The HBO show Rome is pretty good too

[@Scorpion51123314512]

Even roman arts have depicted what many historians do think is what Cleopatra looked like during her time in Rome with Julius Caesar. It's in a home at Pompeii where a women is dressed as the goddess Venus Genetrix with who could be her son Caesarion near her head.

[@benjamineer3045]

Alway remember that on of the most skilled propagandist in history (Octavian) was her leathal enemy, a person that would literally use anything against her and Marcus Antonius if it seemed fair game, didn't once question her greek heritage or anything should be a clue as to were this series got it wrong. Octavian would not have wasted time to throw dirt at her, if there was at least some plausibility. The fact that he didn't is quite some evidence that she probably was just a Mediteranian person, that looks like a person coming from the mediteranian levante.

[@marycatherine3752]

Even if Cleopatra’s mother was Egyptian then she still would not be black. She would be Egyptian. Light brown in skin tone

[@thesnowroach]

I suggest series name change to 'What if the Nubians had ruled Egypt in a parallel universe where historical time periods and technologies are mashed together in an absolute mess of inaccuracies where other races never evolved?' I would probably even watch it.

[@noelbrooks3401]

Thank you for your service. I Look forward to not having to watch the rest of the “documentary”

[@heck_boi8387]

Title reminds me of miniminute man Milo, he watched ancient apocalypse so we didn't have to. You and him are brave brave souls

[@visualartsbyjr2464]

By the sounds of it, Netflix is turning into The History Channel

[@KOCChristian]

Ancient Aliens was at least hilariously stupid

[@amyfowler2387]

There is a straight to VHS short film called "The Royal Diaries: Cleoptra VII - Daughter of the Nile. It was significantly more accurate and better production quality, despite its budget it is probably the best dramatic depiction of Cleopatra.

[@jonmiller6787]

Stak: "This is a historical documentary of a historical figure, not some religious figure that you can imagine into a variety of different cultures" Bachwezi Worshippers: 👀

[@DarkTruth666]

Really starting to wonder if Fate's Cleopatra is not the most inaccurate version of her... and she has a giant snake that burns people.

[@turdferguson9356]

Jada Pinkett Smith is unironically saying we waz kangz

[@Vlugazoide]

Why would they erase the greek elements of Cleopatra...then put a Kopis in her hand? The xiphos would be a better dueling sword and the khopesh would be better to represent her as a continuity of Egypt

[@ferdinandvillafuerte468]

I like this idea already for a YT series already. I'd love to watch you react to and talk about the other Netflix docu drama series like The Ottoman Empire and The Age of Samurai. I'm not sure if it was just this episode, but I'd also love for you to point historically accurate things that were pretty cool. Looking forward to watching more of this series.

[@JustVic-92]

I actually watched the whole thing, all 4 episodes. Let me tell you, it doesn't get better. (Shocker, I know)

[@Warren_Peace]

I heard this from somewhere, but the reason why Cleopatra being smuggled in a rug is far more likely that in something like a bag is that people tend to check bags... Even now, it is common practice for us to open bags when entering places like high security places... This is because people tend to put stuff in bags.... When was the last time anyone ever demanded you unroll a rug to check what is inside?

[@BWMagus]

It's pretty hard to fit much in a rug. A gun might fit, in the center. But a fucking person? It would look like a cartoon.

[@ΜιχαήλΚούρκουλος-ε8δ]

Great commentary but the disk plates were military decorations/medals called Phalera, not additional armor

[@camerondale6529]

The first genre the show is listed under is "sex" starring Jada Pinkett-Smith, why am I not surprised.

[@isaiahvaldez3330]

Should be entanglement

[@trollerpilotxiv3079]

Honestly I'm just glad you can analyze all the problems here without ever using the word "woke".

[@TheColonelCommisar]

Ah! Jada’s fever-dream, historical revisionist, self-insert fan fiction.

[@Jessidafennecfox]

It's on My Immortal level horrifying

[@ianmacdiarmid1249]

There is so much about her that is interesting that all this invention is not only wrong, it's unnecessary

[@DirtyTurtle67]

Lol, 'some random person' is the best description of Adele James I've heard yet.

[@chuckwagon9923]

3:03 This is why I can’t stand race swapping and no one should. Not in documentaries. Not with fictional characters. To change a race, you need to swap an entire bloodline.

[@pumkin610]

I think im fine with people race swapping fictional characters but not real people, that's just simply a lie and it's rather racist to erase their ethnicity to replace it with a better one that deserves attention like bro it's not a popularity contest just talk about someone who actually is the race that you wanna represent.

[@saucemasteralien]

She wasn't race swapped though. He stated it's a *_possibility_* she was black because we dont know who her mother or grandmother were. I mean it's also speculated if she was even ethnically an Egyptian, so 🤷🏽‍♂️ we just gotta deal with not knowing. I don't think they should've made a whole documentary focusing on her race though, that's unnecessary and counterproductive - seeing as how it's supposed to be a 'documentary' which is supposed to be factual, not speculation.

[@chuckwagon9923]

@@saucemasteralien if you pulled your head out your bum and listened, you’d known they race swapped multiple KNOWN people in this series too. To give off the impression it was an entire black family. This is crap spewed on toxic dump. Just to add what we know, she wasn’t black

[@agentbeauty7516]

For me another case of 'I wanna know what happened but don't wanna give them views'. Thank you for your sacrifice.

[@Fenrasulfr]

I wonder what is a more accurate depiction Queen Cleopatra or Asterix and Obelix Mission Cleopatra.

[@JDoe-gf5oz]

The one that doesn't depict her as black.