Sawmill Bands - 25 Things You May Not Know! Try Not to Laugh at #25!

[@rwinktown]

keep the vids coming, feels like a cheat code having learned the hard way.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks!

[@geraldrutherford5360]

It was great meeting you Saturday. I appreciate you taking time and talking with me. This was a very informative video. I never thought about the possibility of your roller taking out your set as your blade gets narrow. I sharpen my blades and this has been very helpful. Thanks so much.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Gerald, watch my next video to the end!

[@Ruff-Cut]

Thanks for the video, I will be checking the back side of my band. I did not know about loosing the set on one side, will be checking for this also. Love sawing and learning.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yeah, loosing set on one side instantly screws up a band, and is not overly well known. I've done it myself and should always keep it in the back of your mind when you push a band hard and scrub it on the back shoulder, I always take the next cut slow at first to see if the proper set is till there on the roller side.

[@rodmiller8617]

Thanks so much for running through this information. That is going to be very helpful. New mill sowing up the 22nd. Can’t wait. Son and I will have something else we can do together

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

That's cool! Just remember, it's fun and don't get hurt!

[@PineInTheAshMilling]

Learned a lot of great info Robert, thank you and keep the videos coming

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks, will do!

[@mightytreeproducts]

Thank you! Great information. 👍

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Glad it was helpful!

[@richardlavalley2424]

Thanks so much for all your videos. I have learned so much from watching them over the last couple of years. I’ll have to go out to my sawmill and feel the back of the blade and see where my roller guide if running to make sure all is where it should be. I wanted to let you know I appreciate what you are doing.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks! Yes, it's very important to check the way the band is riding on the rollers.

[@Twobrothersoutdoors]

Great explanation of saw bands. Thanks!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks!

[@gregm312]

excellent explanation , thank you

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

You are welcome!

[@rf8driver]

Robert, you never cease to amaze, with subjects that are not in the handbook. The world is a better place because of engineers.😁 (I was an AERO major also)

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Glad to help!

[@danielmoore7039]

If I come across your video I hit the like button before I watch it because I know Ricky Bobby if you ain’t first ya last 😂💪❤️🙏

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Damn right! Let's go get thrown out of an Applebee's!

[@danielmoore7039]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama yes sir 😝

[@johnaddis1022]

Great info! I get 3 to 4 sharpening per blade What breaks my blades most times is fence staples and 1 Pole insulator. I use the double hard due to not having de-barker. I will be watching the back of the blades now when I sharpen them. Hope my info on finding cotton picker lube helped. My distributor advised they got a lot of orders all of a sudden! Cheers!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Good stuff!

[@kencornelius9584]

Awesome explanation, great video and greatly appreciated!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks!

[@rodmiller8617]

Safety is paramount. Found it interesting you were talking the nasa museum. ROTC at my high school in Marietta took us up there as field trip in the early 70s. Such a great place. Thanks again for these videos. My son and I are will put them to use

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Very cool!

[@throngcleaver]

You crack me up, Robert! 😂 Once I found your channel, I default to your information completely. I remember one sawyer channel that used carbide-tipped bands because their long life far outweighed their cost. I'm not going to believe that until you tell us differently. Thanks for the education AND the laughs!

[@rf8driver]

Great idea except when I used carbide, the nails seemed to know which logs to get into. After three expensive attempts, I quit.

[@throngcleaver]

@@rf8driver Good to know. Thanks!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I have new carbide bands hanging on the wall, and if I thought they were better, I would use them. They actually cut slower per hp than conventional bands because of their wider saw kerf. They also can't be readily resharpened, and yes, nails are attracted to carbide. They do have a few specialty uses, such as skimming one edge of a live edge slab, but in reality, their cost and reduced performance does not justify their cost. For some extremely abrasive exotic woods they are also useful. In summary, I'm not overly impressed with them. They are like a specialty tool that only comes out of the toolbox every now and then, mostly never.

[@throngcleaver]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama Thanks, Robert! Great explanation that makes perfect sense. 😊👍

[@samdiamond7642]

THANK YOU !

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

You are welcome

[@petegraham1458]

Good video!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks!

[@mitchellriddell8092]

Im a sawfiler in a large scale production hardwood sawmill. We do 60,000 board foot a day. I file/tension both resaw and double cut saws everyday. What info can you give me that i may not already know? Im 33 yo and ive been doing it for going on 6 years now. Legit just curious what a professional such as yourself can teach me that i dont already know. Absolutely love your content and your knowledge. Keep up the flawless work 💪

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Hard to do that, I'm not sure how much of we know overlaps, but I will say that the times I've had companies who do production band sharpening sharpen my bands, they seem to take way too much metal off in one pass, or otherwise heat up the edges of the gullet and martensite the alloy, making increased fatigue a sure thing. They also are generally sloppier about their set, at the cost of loosing horsepower and cutting waves. I'm also a big fan of grind then set for several reasons, vs set then grind, and I can say that when I get wood from big mills, whether using a circular or bandsaw, I can not get the wood to clean up with my normal 1/16" hit or miss plane process. I do remember I got in an argument with a saw filer one day when they had mis ground some of my teeth, and the guy said "What, do you expect, every single one to be right?" and I said "As long as I'm paying, yes!". I think the biggest takeaway would be "quality control" and since you are asking it sounds like you are doing well. Thanks for commenting.

[@danhunik7949]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama The companies will take one hard pass instead of two or three light ones to save a lot of time. Also the shape of the grinding wheel will dictate where in the gullet and on the back of the tooth the wheel touches your saw. Touch up the grinding wheel to shape it the same for each saw and you will get the best results Most larger bands are benched so the back edge of the saw it longer than the front. When the log hits the band the front edge will stretch to the same length as the back and run true.

[@johndaly3979]

What is double hardening?

[@SteveandSusiesHomestead]

Great info , Thanks...Carbide ?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

It's OK for some specialty stuff, but actually cuts slower than conventional bands per hp because the kerf is so wide. I've got some, if they were better for day to day sawing, I would be using them. They do stay sharp for a long time, but they also cost 3X as much and I can't resharpen them. Just another specialty screwdriver that has it's place but rarely gets used.

[@michaelkeykey2225]

Hello Mr. Milton. First whats going on with the set gopher trap on the work bench. You explained very well the complexity involved in manufacturing saw blades.As consumers we are at the mercy of manufacturers as far as products engineered at an acceptable and affordable cost. You have demonstrated the value of the blades available . You have jumped way ahead with factors combined to make a good saw blade that cuts good. I feel a blade setting and conditioning video in the future. I guess until blades stay sharper and last longer between sharpening we will depend on you to come up with practical innovative ways to get the most out of our work and hobbies. Thank you Mr. Milton. I enjoyed your video.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

You are the first person to see it! I just keep it there to keep people out of my tools! Thanks for commenting!

[@michaelkeykey2225]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama They will make "Precious Memories" when they go off. So be careful if they contact a "spandex bandit" in your shop. A spark can be produced and cause heavy damage. Sorry. couldn't help myself. I'll hush.. Thanks Mr. Milton

[@davewarner5513]

great info i am always trying to pick up tid bits of info on milling and blades and set up or just all things sawmill. it beets the school of hard knox which is where i seem to learn a lot of my limited knowledge.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, that school hurts, so maybe you can learn from my mistakes.

[@ChadMuterspaw-i6z]

Have you ever tried Ripper37 sawmill blades. Wonder your thoughts on them if you have?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, they are OK, but in my opinion, the teeth have too much back angle, making the tips weak, and the beam strength is a little off, also. Decent, but not the best I've used. Good question.

[@SawMillJunky-]

Great video as always Robert. I do hae a question you might can answer. Should i release the tension off the band when not using my mill for a few days. Would that help the band not to have stress on it. Thanks

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, release tension on the band, at the end of everyday to not put flat spots in the band wheel belts.

[@chieflefthand780]

Can you weld a band for a sawmill like you can for a metal-cutting bandsaw?

[@andrewupson2987]

They are welded when produced. I think they laser weld, or some other uncommon (for a hobbiest) method, so probably not something a person can easily diy unless they happen to have specialty equipment. You would also need to do a post-weld annealing or the fatigue life will be very short.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Sure, they are generally contact arc welded like a metal cutting bandsaw, and the real key is getting the tooth spacing exactly correct for resharpening, getting the weld annealed properly and then grinding the weld perfectly flat. Lots of ways to do it wrong, only a few to do it right.

[@ElbowJames]

This is a question pertaining to those of us with 19” bandwheels. Ive tried running an 1.5”x.055” bands on my lt 35 and it feels like it’s too much band for that engine. Have you ever experimented with an 1.25”x.050” or 1.25”x.055”? Im trying to get flat and fast boards but struggling in some knotty softwoods like pine and spruce to keep the feed rate up to prevent pancaking the sawdust. I think my mill is just underpowered for what my goals are but still in the event of optimizing this mill. Do you think the bands I mentioned would help or no? Also, is it strictly thickness that requires more engine power, or does the width of the band require more engine power as well? Meaning if 1.25”x.055” is too thick, would running an 1.5”x.045” help with stiffening up the blade? What did you find worked best for you when you had your LT40?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I agree, that's probably too much band for the LT35, that's what I'm running on my LT70! I ran years with .045 and then .055 x 1.25 x 7 degree on my LT40 diesel with 19inch wheels, and it loved them. You should be able to absorb every bit of power you have with .045 x 7 frozen hardwood WM bands. By the way, the Woodmizer Competition Speed Sawyer used .045 x 9's in clean red oak and poplar!

[@deniscarter6613]

Thanks Robert how long can you use a blade from the first Sharpen of it

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

It depends, but generally from 600 to 1,000 bdft. If a log is muddy or overheats, the band can be dead on one cut.

[@Peter-od7op]

Have not yet got my mill its hobby mil hope this all applies ty

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, this information applies to all bands and mills.

[@turdferguson12]

Anyone know where to get Cook’s bands sharpened in northeast Alabama? Shipping them off is so expensive. I’m in Anniston.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

No, sorry. I don't know of any good band sharpeners in my area, I have tried pretty much every one, and all they do is ruin my bands. I would recommend a sharpener and setter.

[@turdferguson12]

@ yeah, I guess I need to break down and buy one. I don’t sell lumber, I just saw for myself so it’s hard to justify the cost of that Cat Claw!

[@arnoldpraesent174]

Im still struggling with heavy head shake under certain conditions and species of wood. Big oach Logs eh ... no matter what i do, no matter which band, tension, feed rate, alignment, ... ... ..., sometimes it starts shaking like hell. I almost accepted it and tried to live with it, but the little nerd in me tells me, i won't rest until i know why this bloody saw is doing it - if i know , most likely i stop sawing. :-) Question: What are the most common reasons for head shake? I was running 7-9-9'isch-11 degree blades, i set up the mill as good and accurate as possible according to manual. And i know this is an old topic but it realy bothers me... If i know whats wrong, i could throw the saw away and buy a new one - other brand - but what if the same thing happens at the new sawmill as well because i didn't understand where it is coming from - that would be stupid - isn't it?

[@rf8driver]

Head shake??

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Since I don’t know the mill brand or make, it’s difficult to answer the question. However head shake is caused by uneven feeding, or uneven cutting, for whatever reason. it could be you feed motor is jerking, your feed belt is slipping, your follower bearings are skidding or grabbing under load, you main drive belt is slipping, or quite a few things, but generally is not alignment related. Blades can do it, even new ones, if they have mis set teeth or aren’t ground all the same.

[@imenriched]

did you buy a sharpener? Or, make yours? if purchased, which one?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I’ve purchased several, but the I only one I have is a WM CBN sharpener.

[@rexhavoc2982]

Some times my Cat powered LT40, will leave a washboard for the first foot of cuts working down a pine or cedar cant.. My mill has 8000 hours but I keep it well adjusted and in good shape. It is on a slab under cover. Double hard 1 1/4 .040. 10 degree. I use a CBN profile wheel.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

That is a common problem, and due to band resonance or "band bounce" when the band is not in the cut and unloaded. For some reason, your band is bouncing very rapidly up and down when engaged at cutting speed but not in a log. If you put a camera on to in slow motion, you can see it. So when you put the band in a soft wood, especially an new sharp band, and is still bouncing up and down in the cut causing the washboard effect, until the "bounce" or resonance settles and disappears when you increase feed speed further in the cut and load up the band. Faster sawing increases load on the band and decreases washboard, up to a point. It's easy to check, when you see washboard, saw faster and see if it reduces and then feed slow and see if it reappears. You can do it one cut, and you will know what it is. Finding the reason for the band bounce is another thing, and would make a good video,.

[@rexhavoc2982]

@@HobbyHardwoodAlabama If the cant end is cut smoothe I hit it at full speed and try and use some of the 50 horse power by cutting fast and trying to make the blade sing. Some times the saw dust looks like chips. I was shocked to see the price tag on a bucket of spindle lube out here on the left coast of CA. Water with a bit of cheap dish soap seems to work, I use quite a bit. Helps with the air quality. I will keep an eye on the bounce and take a few notes on conditions next time i have it. Thanks for your time,-

[@douglassiemens4245]

I know filming can be a bloody mess at times. Been there, done that. However, it would be rather interesting to see a super slow motion of closeup band flexing done on a high speed camera. On KZbin, Jonathan Kat-Moses has had some very informative router and table saw closeups. And another Alabama engineer, Dustin at Smarter Every Day, has done some very good slow-mo videos with many subjects.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I may try that ! Good idea.

[@perry9492]

I end up with just a few blades left out of a pack of ten that could be resharpened. Nails are a big thing. Sometimes a blade will jump off and get folded and sometimes a brand new one will break. So at this point, I can't justify a sharpener with 3 or 4 blades out of 10 surviving. I appreciate the tips. It seems like blades break at the weld most often which is what you would think. The grain structure is always bad and hardness changes etc. I still have a lot to learn. So have you thought of making some videos about stacking and drying techniques. I have 44 acres but not much flat space and not much covered space at all.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Well, the bad news is that blades should almost never break at the weld, that means the weld wasn't annealed correctly, and some, if not most, band manufacturers will replace broken weld blades under warranty. Woodmizer used to do it routinely for me, I assume they still do. You might call them.

[@falfas55bgas]

And here I thought you were going to talk about your new shoes!

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

They look exactly like my old ones, just cleaner!

[@OregonOldTimer]

12:25 Hang the blades teeth to the wall and save on Band-Aids.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Ain't that the truth!

[@alexlindekugel8727]

and this is why i use a chain saw mill. lot less to worry about whit chains. lol. but not doing production either.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I used to have a chainsaw mill. It was fun.

[@jasonhopson7280]

How long will a single blade stay sharp , on average? A few logs ? A dozen logs ? Certain amount of board feet ?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Typically anywhere form 500 to 1,000 bdft. Unless you hit dirt, grit or metal.

[@sixpinesvt]

yes there are female sawyers!! thank you

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I am glad to hear that! You probably are better than us guys, maybe a little less hard headed! Thanks for commenting and watching.

[@GibClark]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Thanks!

[@paularthurwebb7212]

when I hang my blades on the wall I point the teeth towards the wall to avoid accidentally contacting them.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yeah, that would be the smart thing to do....no argument here!

[@knotheadz]

you may have said this on another video, and i just didnt see it, but what size log is a waste of your time. and where do you say yes its big enough to cut? thanks

[@rf8driver]

I charge by the hour for this very reason. Was making garbage cuts for "less than knowledgeable customers", so hourly rates solved the problem. A few years ago Wood-Mizer put out a blurb that said sawyer rates ranged from $65 - $105 hourly.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

It depends on the species, but I typically won't do anything under 14 inches and much prefer 20 to 30 inches. Doyle scale actually penalizes loggers for smaller logs.

[@Pascalore]

This is never addressed as most mills cut 90 degrees to the log length but I will site two exceptions. One is a youtuber using a chain saw to 'split' a short log. Instead of cutting across the end face of the log (which every chainsaw mill does) he cut through one bark side to the other bark side avoiding any knots along the way. This produces long strings of waste and seemed quicker while cutting across the face makes small chips and is harder on the saw and chain. This method could be applied to a long bar Alaskan style chain saw mill. Second is E Z Boardwalk saws which have angled their mills at 15 degrees to the log face. It should extend the life of the blades and reduce normal wear on the mill. While cutting, the blade pulls the saw head through the cuts due to the angle. Now, my idea is to get mill manufactures to create a new style of mill that pivots the whole band saw head perhaps up to 89 - 90 degrees. Of course this will reduce the width of cut but any angle would be better than no angle (the 90 degree cuts would only happen at the end of a skim cut so you could technically cut a longer log than your mill would normally hold by a few inches). Since the mill you use only has one side attached to the deck it would be the easiest to adapt.

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Some good ideas!

[@SheratonParkFarms]

I bet that one female viewer doesn’t wear yoga pants. 😂

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I hope so! Thanks for commenting!

[@davidmcgennity3182]

I saw that saw git you , you need a band aid?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes!

[@randysmith9796]

Great video but watch out for those band teeth

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

Yes, they bit me. Stupid of me.

[@ElbowJames]

This is a question pertaining to those of us with 19” bandwheels. Ive tried running an 1.5”x.055” bands on my lt 35 and it feels like it’s too much band for that engine. Have you ever experimented with an 1.25”x.050” or 1.25”x.055”? Im trying to get flat and fast boards but struggling in some knotty softwoods like pine and spruce to keep the feed rate up to prevent pancaking the sawdust. I think my mill is just underpowered for what my goals are but still in the event of optimizing this mill. Do you think the bands I mentioned would help or no? Also, is it strictly thickness that requires more engine power, or does the width of the band require more engine power as well? Meaning if 1.25”x.055” is too thick, would running an 1.5”x.045” help with stiffening up the blade? What did you find worked best for you when you had your LT40?

[@HobbyHardwoodAlabama]

I agree, that's probably too much band for the LT35, that's what I'm running on my LT70! I ran years with .045 and then .055 x 1.25 x 7 degree on my LT40 diesel with 19inch wheels, and it loved them. You should be able to absorb every bit of power you have with .045 x 7 frozen hardwood WM bands. By the way, the Woodmizer Competition Speed Sawyer used .045 x 9's in clean red oak and poplar!