Hogue Avenger: Precision Accuracy Via Delayed Blowback

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The Avenger is a flapper-delayed blowback, fixed barrel conversion upper assembly for the Model 1911 pistol. It was designed by Austrian Peter Spielberger, and manufactured by Hogue in the US and PowerSpeed in Austria. It is a product that came close to vaporware status, announced at SHOT Show in 2003 but not actually available until around 2011 - and by then at nearly double the initial advertised price.
The Avenger is a very well-made system capable of fantastic accuracy - but it was a commercial flop. It was too expensive, and didn't offer sufficient practical benefit over a simply well-tuned 1911. It went out of production almost as soon as it was made available, and is quite scarce today.
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[@CalzaTheFox]

Count on an Austrian gunmaker to either create a simple stroke of genius or a meticulous clockwork machine with nothing inbetween.

[@leobuana7430]

I completely forget that's a 1911 based gun until 11:00 because all that mechanical puzzle of disassembly

[@CallOfCutie69]

They say the same about Russians. What is funny, some say that Austrians are Slavs of Germanic people.

[@davitdavid7165]

And the russians.

[@geodkyt]

​@@leobuana7430It makes a C96 disassembly look like a PPK.

[@werewally3156]

Well you could say that about the Germans, no the Swiss or uhhh any folk in the northern hemisphere.......

[@Jimtheneals]

You know it's complex when Ian doesn't want to disassemble it further.

[@DK-gy7ll]

Yeah, I thought it was a pretty neat system until he started disassembling it, and then it quickly devolved into a horror show.

[@Jimtheneals]

@@DK-gy7ll That is a very apt description. I thought the same, but when he said he was afraid to take it further, no thanks.

[@eljefeamericano4308]

I'm with you two on this. Thought the same things.

[@patricks.6812]

That was what I thought too. If Ian is hesitant, I want nothing to do with it.

[@Jimtheneals]

@patricks.6812 that is a good rule of thumb, if he's afraid to take it apart, I want no part of it either

[@jonp8015]

You pulled back the slide and I was like "Oh, it's like a Laugo Alien." Then you pulled it apart and I was like "Oh, it's a man-made horror beyond my comprehension." That is a *LOT* of tiny fiddly fragile parts in a 1911 upper.

[@roempoetliar7995]

more like Hogue Cthulhu

[@Maelstrom8]

Had the exact same thought. No wonder this didn't catch on. Some people find the standard 1911 hard to disassemble and maintain. this really looks like a nightmare. Curious to see the performance though as 1911s are already very accurate pistols.

[@AsheramK]

I found myself giggling over what would happen if this _somehow_ went into military trials.

[@jonp8015]

@@AsheramK What really gets me is that for as many disassembly steps as he went before he dared not go further... It *still* wasn't in a state where you could sight down the bore for a "proper cleaning". It's one of those guns that makes me feel a lot better about my own off-the-wall gun designs that I'm never confident enough to prototype out.

[@dj1NM3]

I also wonder at the longevity of that friction/spring "locking" mechanism, considering that there isn't a locking-wedge like in an H&K smg or rifle that positively pushes out the flap into its locking recess. My first guess on how the Hogue Avenger worked was that the flap positively locked on a sharp edge and the flap, along with the bolt, was pushed open by a gas piston, fed from a gas port near the forward end of the barrel, but I was wrong.

[@jimbob1103]

With the number of required special tools and parts that have to be removed, I have to wonder how many automotive engineers they had working on it.

[@haveaday1812]

Engineers will walk right by ten vaginas just to screw a technician.

[@leszekkadelski9569]

My thought exactly. And practices like that lead Right2Repair campaign resulting in EU adopting GVO/MB BER regulation preventing this kind of shenaningans in cars sold in EU.

[@brucewelty7684]

None. We'd have stuck a key component in an absolutely untenable postion.

[@Ashcrash82]

@@brucewelty7684 As a former dealer technician that is about 6 years removed from the industry, I can laugh at your comment. I used to have a different response....lol

[@RyTrapp0]

@@leszekkadelski9569 So we should artificially limit how we can design products like this pistol then? ...I'll take a pass on that one...

[@maxcactus7]

Accuracy increase over a standard 1911: 75% Accuracy increase over a custom fitted and built 1911: 20% Complexity increase over every other 1911 ever created: 8715%

[@Oblithian]

Better to start with a better gun.

[@I_like_turtles_67]

​@@Oblithian1911 is a fantastic pistol platform.

[@Bill308A10]

As a 1911 hand builder myself it’s not hard to make a 1911 accurate just takes patience. I will say however Most 1911s nowadays are perfectly fine out of the box due to cnc machining being really good now. It’s rare to have a lot of barrel slop in most brands lately. It pains me to say it but entry level Springfields tend to be rattle traps lately.

[@Operator8282]

When Gun Jesus does an Owl imitation sound when describing disassembly, you know you are in for a treat.

[@Magic_monkey_man]

Mr. Owl, how many tools does it take to get to the center of a Hogue Avenger?

[@sillylittleowlguy2392]

@@Magic_monkey_man well lets see... one, two! three... (retaining pin goes flying off into the corner of the room, disappearing forever)

[@Zach_Hazard]

“You see, if we make it so complicated to take apart, they won’t want to clean it, so they won’t disassemble it, and it’ll stay clean and zeroed forever!” This thing is really cool though

[@SpawnofHastur]

My two favourite gun youtubers together at last? Thank John Moses Browning!

[@LethalByChoice]

Eyyyy fancy seeing you here!

[@T-B_22]

yooooo Zach !!!

[@shawnfurness]

Zach Hazzard? Never would have guessed you were a gun nerd haha

[@lycossurfer8851]

@2:50 is where I got scared; when Ian has to say it like that you KNOW it will be........interesting

[@AsheramK]

Halfway through the disassembly and I'm suddenly very certain of why this didn't get popular.

[@eljefeamericano4308]

Same.

[@r.b.rozier9692]

It's the same reason most mechanics, speaking from experience, hate working on European cars...they always overcomplicate shit.

[@rickdeppat4456]

6" Powerspeed Avenger owner here - believe me...taking this thing completely apart is nothing compared to putting it together again. I did it once amd I swear to god: never again 😅 Especially if you know that if you send a spring flying or lose any single part of the Avenger, you won't get spare parts ever again 😫

[@andersjjensen]

Ouch. It really is a complete "clockwork" inside by the looks of it. A few years ago Ian showed a Swizz boutique competition pistol, that was pretty much just a miniaturised H&K G3/MP5/etc mechanism, that was fairly "1911-ish". I wonder if it would have been a bigger commercial success to just license that (if the patent hasn't long since expired) as a 1911 upgrade kit.

[@andersjjensen]

I found it. It's not Swizz but German and is called the Korth PRS Automatic Pistol... and it actually IS a 1911 lower.

[@eljefeamericano4308]

Do you have any comments on what it's like to shoot the thing? I've never heard of it until today, and I'm damn curious!

[@anzaca1]

​@@eljefeamericano4308Based on this video, you won't notice a difference.

[@thefrogking481]

I own a Korth PRS and I can genuinely feel your pain.

[@richardcontinijr9661]

It's not often that Ian shows a gun that i haven't seen before, but when he does I'm genuinely thrilled.

[@derekp2674]

The Rudd Automatic Pistol uses a similar operarting system. That design also went nowhere but Ian did review a carbine form the same inventor some years ago.

[@MaximeThatsMe]

As a gunsmithing student, I waited years for this one.

[@justinbellio2285]

2k on gunbroker 5 weeks ago

[@MaximeThatsMe]

@@justinbellio2285 I'm French, so it's pretty much unobtaium here :/

[@kenibnanak5554]

When one comes in for repair, be prepared to make parts.

[@delayedhoe9714]

As a french person as well, how and when did you get into gunsmithing? If these details are okay for you to share. It really interests me as well

[@tomaskoutny5605]

I know Mr. Peter Spielberg personaly and he is very clever, friendly and iteresting man with tons of amuzing stories from his life. And I must say I take it as a privilige to had oportunity to know him and work with him.

[@herknorth8691]

The guts/disassembly reminded me of all the guns on this channel that are forgotten for a reason.

[@Skrall_]

in awe of the machining to create this thing, and the design to even come up with something like this.

[@johnsanko4136]

After seeing the Luago Alien's slide design, I wondered why more companies haven't tried a super low reciprocating mass slide design like that. Aside from machining costs, of course. Interesting to see a similar concept being dropped on a 1911.

[@mrkeogh]

It's definitely a cost issue. The original CZ-75 uses the P210 system of external slide rails running _inside_ the frame, which is way more expensive to machine than a typical Browning-style system. And they're both steel frame pistols, so more difficult again to manufacture, although they're incredibly strong and long-lasting. The P210 system almost precludes the use of aluminium or polymer frames unless you have some sort of steel insert (maybe like the later CZs?) 🤷🏻‍♂️ but you've already lost the advantage the P210 has of a very rigid frame, allowing excellent accuracy.

[@charliedulin]

And this is from 20 years ago

[@swayingGrass]

the mass of the slide and barrel also have effect on blowback and recoil operated gun. so maybe thats one reason you dont want to go any lighter. I mean, that's the very purpose of Browning style pistol slide anyway.

[@ryan0U]

@@swayingGrass that's why the alien has a gas delaying system, it appears to have less recoil than a similar size/weight browning gun.

[@swayingGrass]

@@ryan0U Yeah, I meant you can't just make the slide lighter without other adjustment. And maybe there's a practical limit to how light you can make a Browning slide before you have to change operating mechanism.

[@burstingolem8023]

I thought I really wanted one of these until you started taking it apart

[@gnarly6]

Potentially good but complex and expensive. This would have made an excellent SPEC OPS weapon for the Elbonian military.

[@LD-xt1vo]

"Where are the disassembly tools again?"

[@christopherreed4723]

I was thinking it's the kind of design a particularity arrogant megacorp would come up with for their own security personnel. Without the corps's own, highly proprietary, and probably at least partly automated maintenance service, the gun becomes a liability. So ungrateful (read: disaffected) employees who desert the corp, or any edgerunners who might snag an example during an op, will not benefit from the gun for very long before it inevitably needs servicing which they can't provide.

[@KR-hg8be]

​@LD-xt1vo oh no I dropped a spring into the mud.

[@williamflowers9435]

The Elbonian armaments minister can simply point to the GIGN’s use of the Manurhin MR73 and say “we need a sniper pistol, too, but for every servicemen”. At the very least, most recruits won’t be able to pass basic training (assuming that field stripping your weapons is a requirement), lowering morale and troop replenishment. As tales of this monstrosity circulate, enlistment numbers will plummet.

[@jacobhuisman7618]

Only if the FM mandates a full strip every 250 rounds

[@gfhrtshergheghegewgewgew1730]

the removable feed ramp piece blew my mind

[@Josh93B93]

I cant help but say it, for the issues with the barrel tilt of the M1911, General Obregon found the best solution already.

[@walkertybe01]

When the disassembly gives me the vibes of a Lock Picking Lawyer video

[@ayyyyph2797]

Reminds me of an Italian gunsmith that does custom work converting 1911s into gas delayed blowback, though its design is more similar to the Steyr GB's system

[@onpsxmember]

Who?

[@jic1]

@@onpsxmember According to another comment, Chiappa made something that matched that description, as did a company called Network Custom Guns.

[@dieyproductions4403]

Who??

[@PPS3393]

“This is going to be a bit..ch allenging.” I see what you did there Gun Jesus.

[@bo-dine7971]

For those who don't know this level of depth of firearms, this is a VERY special system because it's the unicorn of delayed-blowbacks: one that is using solely mechanical disadvantage & no increased acceleration (moves faster than the bolt during bolt-opening) of any part. This provides very little change compared to str8-blowback & has parts that have high wear therefore for real gun engineers it's basically a MEME system but since it's so bad I've never actually found a production firearm using this so this pistol is very special to me and I'm really happy to finally see this system! Aside from the little effect & the much added wear, the biggest issue is you have a massive increase in manufacturing costs & time compared to basic blowback and yet you gain either little or almost no effect. Granted, all this info is related to rifle systems generally where the "delay" wouldn't change much however I will give this particular gun this; since it's a pistol (short barrel, very brief pressure spike, large bore etc.) any even tiny delay for just a millimetre of bolt-travel can make quite the difference, which is why I suspect this gun actually functioned with a seemingly light bolt for the cartridge. TL;DR: It's such a crappy & pointless system, especially in price VS gain department that this is the first firearm I've actually seen using it.

[@Vrilltrooper-of-sillymaxxia]

an overpriced and complex solution for a problem that isn't severe enough to fix? I'm sold!

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

Just shows how many people are willing to spend any amount of money in the hope that it will miraculously make them a better marksman.

[@geodkyt]

​​@@Kevin-mx1viWell, one can simply *buy* gear; *skill* takes *work* . 😂

[@onpsxmember]

A problem for a niche of customers. Bullseye shooting used to be more popular. Just cause some can't make good use doesn't mean it can't give the edge in high level competition.

[@Kevin-mx1vi]

@@geodkyt Indeed. Some people think that gear is a shortcut to skill, unfortunately.

[@thefrogking481]

Browning solved this issue over 120 years ago.

[@dawudasha977]

Sucks that Star went under when they did. They had what i think was called the "AccuLock" barrel system and it had a very tight fit to the slide with no bushing. I have both the Star Firestar M43 in 9mm and the Star Firestar M45 in .45acp. They never malfunction, heavy as a tank but reliable and low recoil due to the weight. I carried one in AZ for a long time.

[@dourmoose]

I had an M43 and regret letting it go.

[@stevephillips8719]

Walking into a major gun manufacturer and saying, "make me a new Luger in .45 Auto" would be cheaper and easier.

[@derekp2674]

...and put the backsight on the barrel, as the LP08 did.

[@darthhodges]

Seeing how ridiculous disassembly was reminded me of the Korth 1911 Ian did a video on several years ago. Roller-delayed blowback so still a fixed barrel but it took apart easier than a 1911.

[@av8bvma513]

Adding complexity and cost and extended delivery times is a Brilliant Business Model for Bankruptcy!

[@Capin91]

This channel has so much polish with camera and editing, pretty wild really. How often can KZbinrs not even pull focus on a basic thing?😂 Thanks!

[@GarGhuul]

It is a really good thing that Ian recorded taking this apart, in order to have a helpful reference on how to put it back together.

[@TheRhinestoneHurricane]

I couldn’t resist the urge to shout “Avengers assemble” when I got it back together 😛

[@Basti444Ever]

What an amazing piece of engineering. Very aesthetically pleasing too.

[@dibingsdibingens8463]

Just found out that this is a thing a few days ago and i think its super neat. Very convenient of you to upload a video about it now 😆 Thanks as always, you're a blessing!

[@nightshade621]

The beautiful mutated child of the complicated clockwork insides of a Mauser C96 and the robust simplicity of the 1911

[@oldscout7]

My life would be poorer without this channel. Thanks Ian…LOVE what you do, man!

[@Goc4ever]

What an intricate firearm, it must have been a nightmare trying to produce them. Thanks as always Ian, happy 2024🎉🎊🥳🎆.

[@washingtoncommandcenter5541]

Makes me think of Maxin 9s, Alien, Hudson along with the Koriphilla, Korth, and that SUPER COOL Norton DP-75 you did videos of that I'd give my Eye teeth for all at the same time

[@henrymumford4937]

There's not much in the way of inertial amplification happening with the delay lever, as such the mechanism is likely very sensitive to tolerance stackup and changes in friction. It is basically relying entirely on the difference between the two normal force components on the locking lever.

[@SteamCrane]

Agree. Seems fussy.

[@lyndonmarquis414]

Cool bit of engineering that maybe looks like *too* much engineering? Intrigued to see how it compares to a souped up 1911. Would also be interested to see how it fares against that roller-delayed Korth (recognise this is unlikely to happen). Thanks for yet more great content, Ian.

[@DjDolHaus86]

No such thing as too much engineering. I bet I could fit at least a dozen more small springs and precisely aligned cams in there 😂

[@tonypalmentera7752]

I was trying to find info on this gun about a year ago...smiled when I saw this on YT today. Thanks!

[@r.b.ratieta6111]

Really cool idea, too bad it isn't very "field strippable". This idea has a lot of potential with any caliber of pistol, especially heavy calibers or hot loads. If someone could create a version of this that was much easier to strip and reassemble, you've basically gained a bigger market share in pistol accuracy.

[@schublade4]

In the book "Verschlusssysteme von Feuerwaffen" by Peter Dannecker, he illustrates the pistols operation and the lever is only in there to push on a separate piece of mass, accelerating it backwards. Like the leverage ratio in a FAMAS, the contact angles inside are chosen deliberately to move the small mass back faster than the breachface thus increasing its acceleration and allowing it to have the same inertia at a smaller mass than a single bolt with a bigger mass. This explanation in the book makes me doubtful, that the spring force and angled contact surface alone is the primary delaying mechanism of this system.

[@jhammonds36]

The korth prs dosent use a standard 1911 lower but accomplished the same thing in a pretty 1911 like package.

[@Starless85]

Thanks!

[@antonioadinolfi4052]

Those two tiny springs keeping the locking wedge up preventing the gun from blowing apart and blowing the shooter face off 😮😮😮

[@krissteel4074]

This is a pretty cool looking piece of work

[@dibingsdibingens8463]

...and art

[@terrypickett7269]

The Colt MkIV Series 70 with the split barrel bushing was reasonably effective, much simpler, (only the barrel and bushing were different), and at the same price as a standard 1911.

[@enriquekahn9405]

Now this is the kind of weird old gun I subscribed to this channel for

[@petesheppard1709]

And it's not even old! 😀

[@lennydee3538]

This is a wonderful channel Ian. Thank you for all the work you do, and knowledge you provide!

[@scottrobinson3281]

Oy, what a schlepp to strip and clean! A bit of inspiration from Vasily Degtyaryov in the locking flap? And the non-reciprocating sight mounting looks rather Alien like.

[@c0c0asauce]

This is my new dream firearm. I never thought there would be a 1911 accessory that looks older than the 1911 itself.

[@geodkyt]

The guts *do* remind one (esthetic-wise) of a 1900 machine gun design, don't they?

[@AndrewAS87]

I own one. 😁

[@c0c0asauce]

​@@AndrewAS87 You are a lucky duck mate. I'm over here wood working, welding, and polishing on my 1911 to make it something different but if I ever got a chance to put my hands on one of these I'd probably sell one of my cars to have it.

[@AndrewAS87]

​@@c0c0asaucewell, for the right price everything is for sale, right?

[@juliancate7089]

I finally meet a 1911 platform I'd actually want to own, and I didn't learn of it until 20 years after it no longer exists.

[@RyTrapp0]

Feeling the same way LOL

[@AndrewAS87]

I own one. 😁

[@juliancate7089]

@@AndrewAS87 After seeing Ian's test of the gun on the range, I am NOT envious.

[@AndrewAS87]

@@juliancate7089 I'm not sure what his issue was, while I haven't shot mine extensively, it's always worked.

[@juliancate7089]

@@AndrewAS87 Ian did a video testing the gun right after he did this video. I recommend watching it. Frankly, if your piece works without failures to feed, then perhaps you should send it to Ian for a second go.

[@tylerheard2325]

This is the Laugo Alien we have at home

[@matveicat5594]

It's quite pleasantly impressive how it integrates to a existing 1911 as a upper. Not the easiest thing it is, to completely change the cyclic and locking system of a weapon, and fit it all back into one self contained thing.

[@mrkeogh]

I remember seeing this in the noughties and thinking it was a really cool idea. I seem to recall a different name for it, though. Maybe there was an earlier version or a competitor around the same time, too? I also now feel old. Thanks, Ian 😢 Edit: Wolf Ultramatic for the win! 😂

[@disband_thebbc5933]

There was the Korth PRS Which Ian has previously done a video on which was a very similar concept.

[@kenibnanak5554]

Imagine how old I feel having more or less fired an M-16 (they used a recoil simulator with a laser in the barrel) at the Worlds Fair (NYC) unveiling in 64 only to hear they have become C&R guns almost a decade ago. ☹

[@stephencolley334]

​@@disband_thebbc5933 NOT !!!🙄🙄🙄

[@jic1]

@@kenibnanak5554 I doubt it used a laser, they were only invented in 1960, and laser diodes weren't invented until the '70s.

[@kenibnanak5554]

@@jic1 I was a little kid firing it. What mechanisms the Army put in it is unknown to me. When you pulled the trigger a light appeared where it was pointed. A light chain kept one from pointing it in a wrong direction. A long cord to the pistol grip was probably an electric cord. If you hit the bullseye 5 or 10 yards away, not only would you see the red light on it, but a bell would ring too. Also when you pulled the trigger the rifle recoiled. With hindsight it certainly acted like a laser in the barrel and a recoil simulator in it somewhere. I have never seen any discussion of the weapons (and mods to) the US Army brought to the NY Worlds Fair in the 60s.

[@celmer6]

I remember these from the buzz and gossip 20 years ago. Everyone who I talked to back then would rather have 2 Kimber's or 2 Colt Gold Cups. Everyone thought that it was a neat design. But Nobody wanted to pay the price for it.

[@williamflowers9435]

As soon as you started to disassemble it, I knew why this didn’t catch on. The Horror, the horror…

[@justinbellio2285]

One of these sold on gunbarger recently for 2000 dollars for just the slide with no lower assembly

[@GBGuns]

Very cool piece, thanks for sharing.

[@Legolas15989]

I love all these unique takes of existing firearms. Some google brought some things to my attention that perhaps can be found, although due to its rarity might as well be Unicorns. I'm talking about the Network Custom Guns: Ultimate Gas Barrel Kit for 1911s and the Chiappa Delayed blowback 1911. Both of which were Gas Delaying systems, and both of which seem to have flopped. It would be some interesting videos. The Chiappa works in a similar manner to the Steyr GB.

[@apayauq]

I feel like this makes the Laugo Alien look like a simple pistol

[@fredboat]

Thanks, Enjoyed, Never seen one of those in person 1911 sell more than almost any other platform.

[@mynameisoversteertorqueove5004]

The flapper flaps down upon release. That must contribute - ever so slightly - to muzzle climb. A redesign where the flapper sends it’s momentum upwards as it travels backwards would make this pistol even easier to control.

[@rickdeppat4456]

might be...but then you're going to have a higher bore-axis which creates more leverage and surely eats up the won momentum from the upwards-moving flap

[@mynameisoversteertorqueove5004]

Maybe two flaps that fly to the sides similar to what the rollers on a mg42 do? Or simply a system with two flaps that sit on either side of the bore. I understand the pistol would be much wider with both of these designs. It probably would be incompatible with a 1911 lower, and just too bulky.

[@evanmorris1178]

@@mynameisoversteertorqueove5004There is a super rare unicorn Mauser pistol with those side locking flaps. Ian did a video on it years ago. Lenny ( the fireplace guy) owns it. It looks like a less awkward C96. I fell in love with it…but I’ll never see it in real life. Disappointment, you have to get used to it…..

[@willthompson9073]

In theory it reminds me alot of the laugo alien id love to have a laugo for firearms history sake because i think one day they'll be worth a lot of money awesome gun

[@TheReal_Retr0]

Ian, love your videos. Could you possibly do a video on the TKB prototypes? They are interesting Soviet bullpup designs that were made shortly after WW2 thru the 60’s.

[@niclas6405]

Such a cool gun. The disassembly tells me the were not looking for military contracts

[@YouOnlyIiveTwice]

Very cool idea, but it reminds me of the AN-94 Abakan for the AK. Just too many parts trying to improve on a minor "issue" of what was an extremely reliable gun because of the few moving parts it had to begin with.

[@greatgonzo2782]

I wouldn’t want to clean this after each range visit!

[@gregbrown4009]

Fascinating. Thank You!

[@sealove79able]

a great very interesting video and pistol Mr GJ.have a good one.

[@rickdeppat4456]

@Forgotten Weapons: don't worry Ian, the "special tools" are just simple tools like a punch and an allen wrench with a fancy grip on it. I envy you for the fiber front sight ... my Powerspeed Avenger just has the black one 😢 Btw: do you have an Owners Manual? If not, I can hand you a copy if we meet again at IWA this year 😉

[@0zmose]

My first handgun was a 1911. I remember seeing this up for pre-order in the Hogue catalog for $995. I wanted it soooo bad, but I was just working low pay service industry jobs back in those days, so it was never gonna happen. Such a bummer. I make good money now, but I imagine if it made its way to Forgotten Weapons, the price has probably blown up so much I still can't afford it.

[@DavisFamily124]

Thanks, I'm looking forward seeing this. P.S. Happy New Year.

[@uncleFestr]

So its like the Laugo Alien, but 20 yrs ago. I wish this had been more successful.

[@greycatturtle7132]

Yea

[@onpsxmember]

Not gas delayed, barrel not as low but also no heat issues and might not care about cast or coated bullets. Maybe just announced too early.

[@jic1]

@@onpsxmember It still would have been very expensive and difficult to disassemble, though.

[@_Wiseguy7]

This gun seems like the gun equivalent of the phrase "we'll fix it in post later". I can see the idea behind the design was to just move the locking lugs away from the barrel so that it doesn't have to tilt to unlock, and the rest was designed around that idea.

[@KungFuHonky]

Like the Korth PRS. ..That's a lot of precision manufacturing for a maker of plastic and rubber molded grips and stocks. $1400 is actually quite a bargain for such an item. As usual Ian, excellent breakdown.

[@Enword_Jim]

Reminds me of that beautiful Korth 1911ish thing you did a video on years ago.

[@davidkomen5283]

I fired one of these once, very accurate. Hit center target first shot.

[@antoninolatorre8355]

🤔😁🤣 ... ‼️👋

[@kenibnanak5554]

So the reason there is no ejector on the 1911 frame is because there is one on the side of the slide assembly mounted on the left wall directly opposite the ejection port (which should eliminate some 1911 jams). It looks like taking it apart for cleaning after every firing session could become tiring after a dozen times or so. I am also wondering, so many parts, what is the MTBF for parts when shooting? Also why didn't they vent the front of the barrel or at least thread it for a muzzle brake or weight?

[@PhillipBicknell]

So have you ever had a spring 'explosion'? Do you take precautions to work in a room without places small parts can hide? Just looking round my room - nightmare!

[@RolandTHX]

I own two examples [and one mostly complete parts kit + pile of miscellaneous bits and peices] of the Wolf Ultramatic sporting pistol which was somewhat of a predecessor for this. It used a very similar concept with a fixed barrel inside a fixed "slide" and with a reciprocating bolt. The faux slide also had provisions for mounting a rail for optics, but several models also had receivers with the option to use side mounting optics. The main difference was that it used a roller locked [not delayed] bolt with an annular gas piston that wraps around the barrel and a rod connected to it that activates the locking rollers. It also happened to be Austrian, hideously complex, extremely fiddly, and overpriced just like the Hogue Avenger. When the company that made them went bankrupt, their remaining inventory of unsold guns, parts kits, and frames were bought out and liquidated for cheap. Many of the post-bankruptcy guns that were assembled by the buyers were sold as "non-firing collectibles", probably because they had little faith in their handiwork and couldn't be bothered doing warranty duty. I have one early SV [Short Version] model [in 9x21, oddly] and one late LV [Long Version with longer barrel and compensator] model in .38 super. They're very strange and interesting guns, could be worth doing an episode on if you can get your hands on some.

[@ricks3184]

Been waiting for this one.

[@stephenlanoue5041]

FINALLY! thank you Ian

[@atomic...]

Now that is a cool funky 1911, wish I could own one.

[@davidstrother496]

An interesting concept, but is sort of like adding 10 parts to a mousetrap to make it work better, but not enough of an improvement to make it catch any more mice.

[@ChristopherChisolm]

Small side note on the Pardini, the ergonomics of a GT45 are kind of challenging for some, and it is not widely used in precision pistol (bullseye) competition. An accurized 1911 is tough to compete against. Similar ideas to the Hogue Avenger would be an Acculock 1911, would be neat to see one documented.

[@whodatsaddle]

Babe, wake up. A new Forgotten Weapons video just dropped

[@PrinnyKnight]

Still have a Houge catalogue around here somewhere with the Avenger and the odd skeleton holster they made.

[@KamikazKid]

You know it's bad when Ian lays out multiple tools before he even starts.

[@SteamCrane]

Dentist scene in Marathon Man.

[@dirtydog1114]

Finally, a gun more difficult to assemble than the Ruger Mark pistols!

[@kardar233]

This vaguely reminds me of the Korth 1911-alike that we saw a while back, though a much less comprehensive system. Intriguing action!

[@frankbrowning328]

I understand there's a lot of working parts and as such it takes a bit to remove them BUT, it's very easy to see how it works and with a little practice I'd bet it can be stripped enough for basic cleaning in a reasonable amount of time. I can see where the high price tag comes from. If we look at the fine fitment and machining on this upper a price tag goes with each cut. If I ever came across 1 at a bargain basement price I don't know that I'd be able to leave it there.

[@robviousobviously5757]

reminds me of my Marvel 22lr conversion... shoots 5/8 inch group at 50 yard from a ransom rest... way better than I can... lol

[@eljefeamericano4308]

I hadn't heard of this. I was absolutely convinced this was a crazy idea to make a competitive pistol from the 80s or early 90s. A well-kept example, but certainly not a relatively modern product. I'm sorta amazed that this found enough support to be manufactured as recently as it was, in the form that it was. It's interesting, and I'm excited to see the shooting comparison, but I can't imagine paying what was asked for it.

[@distalradius8146]

That's a really cool system and seems to have a lot of potential. I always wondered why something like this wasn't available given the 1911s popularity.

[@SebastianMikulec]

It's the age old story of adding a whole lot of cost and complexity for very little performance gain. Turns out, there's not a big market for that.

[@ZGryphon]

It reminds me slightly of a CZ Kadet, if the function of a CZ Kadet was to change a CZ 75 into The Lahti L-35 We Have at Home. :)

[@piratapan]

When the enemy heard a soldier fieldstrip this bad boy, they raised a new army and attacked; finding the pistol not even fully taken apart yet.

[@SpawnofHastur]

The delay mechanism reminds me of the Reising. I think the concept has legs but would need to be simplified.

[@paleoph6168]

"Spielberger" is what happens when a dad - who also happens to be a cinephile - names his dish at the barbecue.