Homemade sodium-vapor lamp LPS (first attempt)

[@nikomaukkonen4994]

This is amazing! You must be the first person to do this on youtube.

[@randacnam7321]

For a low pressure sodium lamp, you want the discharge tube loading to be around 2W/in to 2.5W/in of arc length. 30mA NSTs are insufficient as you need more like 330mA to 600mA like standard LPS lamps that have comparable discharge tube diameters to yours. You also need a discharge tube wall temperature of around 500°F to get the proper vapor pressure of sodium gas in the discharge tube. A secondary envelope with a hard vacuum will help keep the discharge tube hot, doubly so iffen you could coat the inside with a dichroic coating to bounce the IR back onto the discharge tube. And bare tungsten electrodes will sputter like mad, so emissive coatings will be your friend.

[@Francis_Lee75]

Have you tried doing this ? I’m curious if full working lamps can be made again. Like a 90w LPS lamp

[@randacnam7321]

@@Francis_Lee75 Only using finished lamps, but I know there are somewhat established rules for instant start fluorescent ballasts to use with 18W, 35W and 55W lamps. These could be adapted to a DIY lamp once it had been characterized in terms of where it likes running. The first big trick would be recreating the sodium resistance of the discharge tube, which would require recreating the barium aluminoborate glass coating on the inside of the discharge tube which is what gives it its sodium resistance. There are a sufficient number of technical hurdles that it would be worth poking former Philips staff as they were the last company to quit making LPS lamps. Would also be worth a shot at doing the same with Osram and GE staff as well, although they quit making LPS lamps of their own with the closures of the Shaw and Leicester works in 2000 and 2007 respectively so due to the passage of time, there is a reduced chance of the engineering staff being both still alive and mentally fit enough to confer assistance.

[@AyushRaj-qf4qd]

Is sodium still usable after this

[@randacnam7321]

@@AyushRaj-qf4qd If you mean can LPS lamps still be used, yes as long as you have them.

[@dylanchen]

I was thinking on building such a lamp, ignited with a ZVS and a flyback transformer maybe, is that by any means sufficient power? Or perhaps heating the tube externally as well. I was thinking getting it filled with argon and a few pieces of sodium, then evacuated. For such lamps, can you easily strike it with a flyback then pass mains through it like a fluorescent lamp, thus pair it with a fluro ballast. There are surprisingly little details on low pressure sodium lamps. Also I'll probably just end up using normal boro glass, they may not last long but good enough for me I guess.

[@Sparky-ww5re]

That is soooo cool. As many probably already know, Philips was the last manufacturer of low pressure sodium lamps, discontinued a few years back, which is a shame but also totally understandable, since this lamp is very seldom used in the USA except for near observatories and a few other niche uses. The low pressure sodium lamp, excluding the ballast losses, has the highest efficiency in lumens per watt of all electric light sources, up to 180 lumens per watt or more, at the expense of very poor color rendering, everything appears a yellow version of black and white. High pressure sodium is by far the most common HID source alongside metal halide, with better color rendering usually around 20 CRI and slightly lower efficiency typically peaking at 140 LPW. Metal halide lamps are among the most efficient high CRI HID lamps, 65-70 CRI typical with efficiencies of around 100 LPW for the typical 400 watt lamp, while some of the newer ceramic metal halide lamps having CRI of 90 or more, and even greater efficiencies when used on electronic ballasts. A wide variety of colors are possible outside of the typical 4000K, depending on the compunds in the arc tube. Mercury vapor lamps have the lowest efficiencies, the clear bulbs produce a very bluish light while the coated bulbs produce a more appealing light, and are obsolete. Fixtures are no longer manufactured, and bulbs are still available for replacement use. High pressure sodium, metal halide and LED have replaced mercury vapor in new installations.

[@JamMC]

There’s still manufacturers that make SOX lamps such as GlowObject.

[@hannahduggan3599]

Sodium vapor lights ✨️ are so relaxing 😌.

[@KJ7BZC]

Absolutely beautiful! I really want to try this now...

[@MrTurboturbine]

This is totally awesome. You should build a pocket sized version, maybe with capillary tube and ccfl inverter.

[@gyrofrank]

Would it last more than 5 minutes? What happened next?

[@Lucius4992]

Man, those arcs look so cool, especially since the glass is very clear.

[@koosnaamloos4291]

I'm really glad nighthawkinlight promoted your channel

[@Medaniel_AndHis_friends.]

Worlds first 3 watt lps

[@charlamps]

Very Cool!

[@ianfife4276]

What a nice work of art

[@christopherleubner6633]

LPS uses a borosilicate tube, HPS uses sn aluminum oxide ceramic tube. Very enlightening project there.😊

[@steve-h7z]

Wonder if Cadmium was added to the arc-tube also? Would it make it more of a 2400k color?

[@christopherleubner6633]

@user-hj6df3jf4w cadmium lamps do exist. Yup they are also built very similar to SOX lamps but usually 5 or 15W. Filled with a little neon and cadmium. They make a few blue red UV and violet lines and are used in florescence spectrometers.

[@steve-h7z]

@@christopherleubner6633 Nice, yeah' i've seen the cadmium lamps online, and was thinking it would be a better blend with the sodium, instead of mercury, in a hps lamp.

[@jetpackjbd]

This is really impressive! Hoping for a second part soon!

[@JB-Was-Here]

This was really cool, thanks for sharing!!

[@ChrisGarza57]

Good stuff...glad Nighthawk led me here. Keep up the great work.

[@AdvancedTinkering]

Thank you! :)

[@GarageOfTool]

Hi! Nicely done. You definitely need an outer vacuum glass and heavy duty electrodes to get more heat to inner tube. I have also played a lot with neon tubes and use sodium lamps for optical flats. And during this weekend I tested to drive Osram SOX 18W lamps with direct ballast from 230V and they did lit up easily but for some reason I managed to broke couple of them. And by breaking I mean the lamp just won't start, even with igniter using higher voltages. Current wasn't exceeded, it was maybe too low and few high voltage pulse maybe given. Anyway I dismantled both and separated the outer glass. And for some reason those separated plain inner tubes started to work with igniter. Maybe the thin wiring failed, I don't know. Anyway my point is that those SOX lamps are very complex devices, with barium etc. coating on electrodes and coating on glass etc, extremely hard to manufacture. My SOX inner tubes are now as a decoration on the wall with neon power supply 😂Thanks .

[@samykamkar]

Love it! What pressure was the argon at? I assume you pulled vacuum, injected argon up to some pressure, then valved off the tube? Would love to try this!

[@Streetlighting98]

I made my own Mercury vapour lamp , like that glass tube one but making the middle hole and welding and another tube was hard so I left air in it and it still glows but with one time arc

[@posttopstreetlight1055]

Looks great i always wanted to build a low pressure sodium lamp but just don't have the parts to make it

[@JamMC]

You forgot the neon which gives it the red/pink glow at the start.

[@lightningbuster]

About time someone does a video of this! I’d like to see this done with HPS as well! You’ll need sodium/mercury amalgam for that.

[@ggesdsdsdsd]

I wonder if he could use gallium instead of mercury!!

[@Ales.2000]

​@@ggesdsdsdsd I also thought gallium could be used. I don't know how important the role of mercury in HPS is, but if it depends on vapor pressure, then gallium is perhaps useless.

[@anom1645]

@@Ales.2000 the mercury in HPS lamps emits blue light to make a more broader spectrum of light so gallium wouldnt work

[@Sparky-ww5re]

High pressure sodium also requires an arc tube made of translucent aluminum oxide ceramic because the high temperature of 2000°F give or take plus the corrosive effects of hot sodium vapor will destroy glass and quartz used in mercury vapor, metal halide and low pressure sodium lamps, in fact it was the intensive research and final development of translucent aluminum oxide by General Electric in the late 1950s that made the HPS lamp possible; shortly after the low pressure sodium lamp was discovered and used for limited purposes in the 1930s it was realized that a sodium vapor lamp with more appealing color and efficiency could be had by increasing the pressure and operating temperature of the arc tube.

[@bandiras2]

I'd love to see this same experiment but with potassium metal filling. What color it makes? Also, the other alkali metals, like robidibum and cesium would be interesting too! And some other stuff, like indium gallium, sulphur, iodine, bromine... There are lots of elements with relatively low vapour point. if you can buy some samples.

[@bandiras2]

OhhI I see, you already did some of these experiments! Time to dig in!

[@passtranelectronics]

te quedo estupenda esa mini lampara de vapor de sodio de baja presión un saludo amigo

[@paceaf]

found you via reddit, keep up the vids!

[@michaelandersen7535]

This is super awesome!

[@Notbluefox]

Simply just beautiful.

[@grantmills4184]

Way cool! Super underrated

[@ianfife4276]

You should put a glass shell around the low pressure sodium Arc tube

[@enamelbucket2081]

on the topic of metal vapor lamps, i wonder if a lithium vapor lamp would work to make a really nice red color.

[@AdvancedTinkering]

There are two problems regarding lithium: 1. It has a very high boiling point. Tooo high for borosilicate glass. 2. At elevated temperatures lithium reacts with the glass and it will crack. You would have to use quartz glass or aluminium oxide but to work them you need very high temperatures. I sadly do not have the equipment for that. If this changes, I will definitely make a lithium vapor lamp.

[@Chris47368]

@@AdvancedTinkering I think when you do have the resources and if possible - making lamps from all the alkali metals might be really cool!

[@xq39]

I think it would be extremely cool to see if a sodium discharge light could somehow be rigged to a car or bike to be used as a headlight.

[@MadScientist267]

Just no.

[@UpcomingJedi]

They make leds in this color. So in a way you can have this on your car.

[@CrazyLabs]

I really like your videos 👍👍👍👍👍

[@AdvancedTinkering]

Thank you! I appreciate hearing that!

[@morgadoapi4431]

Thanks for the video

[@fullspeed2243]

You are genius man

[@Niko-rq7ie]

Very nice! I always thought it would be impossible to make simple LPS lamps, due to the very reactive nature of sodium. Commercial sodium lamps get around this by using special 2-ply glass tubes, with inner layer not reactive witj sodium. The broblem is however, this glass is very reactive with moisture and cannot be purchased nor made at home esily. The seals are also problem. I wonder how long they last on this experimental glass. Pure tungsten has also low emissivity, so very high voltage is required compared to commercial lamps which can be run on fluorescent lamp ballasts.

[@mattfleming86]

Very nice!!

[@chaseedwardsedwards540]

A very good effort .

[@xivix6710]

Pretty cool!

[@ARCSTREAMS]

very nice to be able to do such glass work, can you not make a laser with these gas filled tubes out of argon or sodium etc? all you need are mirrors on the ends

[@TheSoxmania]

Here's a risky but interesting concept - What about NaK? that could be a rather interesting spectrum...

[@steve-h7z]

I agree, hope he does more of these video's making these

[@galaxys8-ml]

How would that look?

[@TheSoxmania]

@@galaxys8-ml Well - Potassium if I recall correct has a lilac colour to it I would imagine that the addition of potassium to a sodium discharge would potentially introduce that lilac colour to the lamp's discharge, resulting in a two spectrum discharge lamp that has peaks at 589nm and 766nm How that would look visually and how it would interact with objects though... I'd have to shrug my shoulders on that one! I have zero clue what that would look like if you lit a room with a 35w NaK lamp!!

[@galaxys8-ml]

@@TheSoxmania That would be cool to see!

[@cedrickmeckes1998]

Hello, I love the glow from lps lamps and What the gasses you Use in the arc tube I cant found the right gas for the project. I hear your questions

[@ZanyJIntPictures]

WOW totally RAD! Be cool if you made a homeade Mercury vapor lamp (oops I hope I don't get "cancelled for that") that would also be awesome... This is most triumpant!

[@steve-h7z]

Could you try adding zinc metal to the arc tube aswell, with the sodium?

[@Powersfilms]

Fascinating!

[@ggesdsdsdsd]

I wonder what it would look like if you added in some mercury or gallium into the arc tube also..?

[@AdvancedTinkering]

Gallium has a very high boiling point. I don't think I would be able to vaporize it. Mercury would probably work, but I'm sure the sodium spectrum would dominate and you wouldn't see any of the visible light from the mercury.

[@ggesdsdsdsd]

@@AdvancedTinkering I was thinking that it would make it more of a golden/warm white colour & I wonder if you could use a low wattage magnetic ballast to power it?

[@ggesdsdsdsd]

@@AdvancedTinkering gallium indium alloy might be more easy to boil in the arc tube!!

[@Ales.2000]

I think what also matters a lot, is the vapor pressure. That of gallium is much lower than of mercury. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressures_of_the_elements_(data_page) According to this parameter, the second best metal is cadmium followed by zinc. I was told that zinc has a bad light spectrum, but in around 2000-2005 there was a study about the feasibility of zinc in lamps for car lights, precisely about a zinc-based substitutes for xenon lamps which are in fact metal halide lamps containing also mercury and xenon serves as the auxiliary gas. The proposed zinc lamps were to contain metal halides to overcome the unsatisfactory spectral output. I wonder if zinc could produce some UV light to enable us to use some phosphor coating. Because as the use of metal halides improves the colour, it also brings some difficulties like that you have to be very precise about using the correct ammount and pay attention to water presence (there must be none) which may be difficult as halides are often hygroscopic. Back to gallium, it often behaves nasty towards glass, I'm not sure if such a lamp would last long.

[@ioduremetallique]

it's crazy

[@dennisjohnson8753]

Very nice

[@AdvancedTinkering]

Thank you!

[@jakemasters3208]

Would an evacuated tube work in the same way or is the argon necessary to allow the lamp to start?

[@AdvancedTinkering]

The tube was evacuated to about 10 Pa if I remember correctly. The Argon was used to flush the tube before evacuating it. If the pressure is to low you would not get discharge until you heat up the tube to a temperature at which the sodium evaporates.

[@jakemasters3208]

@@AdvancedTinkering thanks for the reply! That makes sense - do you have plans for trying the same with different elements?

[@AdvancedTinkering]

@@jakemasters3208 I already did it with cesium (it is a beautiful blue color). The video is on my channel. I'm still working on improving the cesium vapor lamp, and there will be a video about that process in the future. I am also thinking about using rubidium, but I first have to make the rubidium and the RbCl is pretty expensive. Furthermore, I may try lithium when I get the aluminum oxide arc tubes that can withstand the lithium at high temperatures.

[@Ales.2000]

I think it would if you managed to fill the space inside with sodium vapour (e. g. by heating the sodium metal) similarly to the early mercury lamps made by Cooper-Hewitt. Argon should serve as so called auxiliary gas, it helps to ionize sodium atoms by Penning effect (very interesting physical/chemical reaction), but some conditions apply to allow this reaction to happen.

[@victorlopes1085]

Which gas did u use, argon or neon to make it?

[@jacksonreazin6042]

Argon was noted in the video

[@JamMC]

Neon wasn’t included probably because they couldn’t get it or it was forgotten. Neon gives the pink/red glow at the start of the warm up before the sodium kicks in giving the orange/yellow glow.

[@Bassworld14]

Can you make high pressure soldium vapour lamp to

[@steve-h7z]

NaK has a lower boiling point than pure sodium metal, wonder how much different it would be.

[@Francis_Lee75]

If you had a power supply from a working LPS 90w light fixture wired for 110 wall plug could you make a functioning lamp?

[@the-yz-546]

Could you use nichrom wire as a heater and ballast for straight 220V?

[@Ales.2000]

I was thinking about using a tubular halogen bulb under the burner (arc tube) to melt the metal. The bulb would be connected in series with the burner. Across the burner, a bimetallic switch would be connected to make a short circuit. As it would heat up, the switch would turn off, enabling the current pass through the burner.

[@Kacyk007]

I think for better heater will be Tungsten (high melting point)

[@dpedroam4107]

I’m trying to find a small sodium light for a project but I’ve only been able to find huge street lights. This has peaked my interest because it looks like something that’s not completely out of the realms of possibility for me to make (I’m sure you are making it look easy) if I used a ballast and igniter from a normal sodium lamp would it fire up without having to heat the sodium separately?

[@photonik-luminescence]

You should try maybe a magnesium vapour bulb. Still, Great video

[@ggesdsdsdsd]

that's what I was thinking lol

[@photonik-luminescence]

@@ggesdsdsdsd Eaven an Sulfur vapor lamp would be cool. The sulfur lamp does exist dough.

[@Ales.2000]

It may have too high vapor pressure and therefore be unsuitable for this purpose.

[@sangietabannerjee4586]

Amazing! 1👍

[@elrincondepasstrantest914]

excelente amigo

[@ALT-9167]

You should do another! This was extremely well done! Although i am sure it gives off UV light, which means someone should not look at it.

[@johnkukla9522]

Believe it or not, sodium emits two spectral lines of about 589 and 589.6 nm, In the yellow / orange. Any UV output, if present, is minuscule, and likely completely attenuated by the glass tube. Due to the brightness of the sodium lamp, however, especially at higher powers, the arc tube is uncomfortable (and possibly slightly dangerous) to stare at for the sake of its sheer brightness. Philips made a 180 watt low pressure sodium (SOX) lamp that put out something like 35,000 lumens, which is more than 20x the brightness of a 100 W incandescent lamp. The efficiency is outrageous - approaching 200 lumens / watt. It’s a damned shame that these lights are being rapidly replaced in streetlight settings with LEDs. I believe that Philips made their last manufacturing run of SOX lamps a couple of years ago

[@mobyduck648]

I briefly looked into these and apparently there's a Chinese manufacturer who make them still.

[@inactiv4822]

​​@@johnkukla9522 Low pressure sodium lamps have low scotopic/photopic ratio about 0.2 which makes the light appear dimmer than a white light with the same lumen output as the LPS lamp. They're also monochromatic with a CRI of 0, they can't be used in applications where color rendering is needed. An alternative to LPS is high pressure sodium with a CRI of about 25 which renders colors weird and a scotopic/photopic ratio of about 0.5, still pretty bad compared to metal halide which even thought is less efficient than LPS it will appear brighter because of higher scotopic/photopic ratio above 1 (depends on the bulb) and they have a CRI over 80 which renders colors like daylight

[@thomasjensen7699]

Nice music

[@AdvancedTinkering]

Thanks!

[@steve-h7z]

Sodium + Cadmium

[@CUBETechie]

Use solarpanels around please

[@maxwillacy-kuhn6396]

Surely a Nak discharge lamp would also...

[@ingussilins6330]

Next try K and Ca metals

[@androbolaareospace9602]

try to make a potassium vapour lamp

[@AdvancedTinkering]

I will try that in the future.

[@EvikurniawatiNia]

Bro make sodium vapor filamen lamp

[@startergeek61]

Uiiinnnnggggggggggggggg

[@pratoarancione7646]

Bravo! I like it.

[@WabuhWabuh]

is it really 3kv? that's alot of volts..

[@icebluscorpion]

Wusstest du das Natrium Dampf Lampen monochromatisch sind? Du kannst eine schwarze Flame erzeugen Wenn du Natrium haltiges Material verbrennt das nur mit Natrium Dampf Lampen Licht beleuchtet wird. Bedeutet ein total ab gedunkelter Raum das mit Natrium Dampf Lampen Licht ausgeleuchtet wird auf bauen und in den selben Raum eine Schale mit brennenden Natrium haltiges Material brennen lassen. Die Flamme absorbiert das Licht und erscheint schwarz. Das sieht richtig surreal aus! Verwende aber Kalium weil Natrium wurde schon von Geist behinderten schon durch geführt und könnten copyright claims an fordern. Ist das zufassen copyright claims auf Natur gesetzte!!! YT wird von Tag zu Tag immer behinderter 😑