Dolby Vision on Everything from AppleTV 4K, Netflix and your UHD Disc Player?

Andrew talks about how to make the most of the studios embedded LLDV metadata to get the best image quality by using the this metadata from your AppleTV 4K, Netflix and your UHD disc player and other sources on your TV or Projector.
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Attribution
Aquaman 2018 - DC Comics, DC Entertainment, Panoramic Pictures, Rodeo FX, The Safran Company, Warner Bros. Produced by directed by James Wan, from a screenplay by David Leslie Johnson-McGoldrick and Will Beall.
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[@theslk28]

Dolby vision with Disney + on my 4k sony tv ...quality is insane! All streaming services should have dolby vision

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Agreed

[@karito6910]

What sony tv do you have. I have the x900f and it always looks darker and less vibrant

[@Dominick7]

@@karito6910 wondering the same thing

[@PhotoJohn80]

Mandalorion is horrible in Dolby vision. What a waste.

[@Marco07081975]

What hdfury did you get?

just ordered a vertex2, thanks for the video !!

[@mrfr3d33x]

Is the picture got better and how much? Do you recommend? Tnx 4 replay! V

[@billhayes5047]

Very informative and helpful. Would there be any chance of an updated review of the vrroom along with say the epson ls 12000b. Love the channel. This would be a great example of how improved processing can help a projector that is within reach of more peoples budget that offers laser, and 120 "4k" with hdmi 2.1

[@ViciousXUSMC]

I think this is by far the best video about everything on this product I have seen so far. I may try to get a VRROOM and get into the technical woods with the device and see just what this can do. Have you had any new breakthroughs with this product as far as tuning/tweaking or any new additional guides not linked in this videos description?

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Hi. Thanks for your comment. No we haven’t progressed to be honest. We have learned more about DV and projectors and this has led us onto other areas specifically projector capability and Video processors

[@adi24s]

Does this convert an HDR 10 display to an HDR 10+ display??? Why is Apple TV not capable of just sending the LLDV signal (or whatever signal the Diva sends to the display) by itself? Coz it's not a priority for them? Proprietary technology?

[@dividido3723]

Great video and excellent explanation! Just got a Vertex2 setup (in a basic manner) with my projector and it works well with a shield pro 2019 and Sony x700. Any chance we could get a follow up on more in depth configurations you mentioned (Setting the primaries)? Thank you.

[@percybedford6266]

@Dave Fedele what projector are you using and how is the HDR with the Vertex2? I am thinking of adding one to my setup. Thanks again.

[@dividido3723]

@@percybedford6266 optoma uhd50x. It’s pretty good but I ended up trading the vertex2 for an arcana. Vertex2 had way more config that I wanted to invest in. Arcana is giving me the minimal functionality to enable DV.

[@percybedford6266]

@@dividido3723 got you. I wish there was more videos on how to use it. There is really nothing out there.

[@daviddave8761]

I am about to buy a Samsung S90C 65"( hope to get a 2nd gen panel else it go back for a other one somewhere else, u can do that in the EU) and a Apple TV device. Only downside in my book compared to a C3 is that there is no Dolby Vision support on the Samsung S90C From my understanding ( source: reddit and HDfury) you can circumvent this issue by playing your content from a Apple TV device for example and put an HDFury Arcana 2 between the Apple TV and the Samsung S90C. This way you can still get Dolby Vision on the S90C. How does Dolby Vision look on a Samsung QD-OLED compared to a Samsung QD-OLED without this feature? Just as nice? nicer? A little less good but better then no Dolby Vision at all?

[@allan2270]

Andrew thank you for the video. I am awaiting delivery of equipment, Yamaha rx-a1080 and epson tw8400 projector. My question is where does the HD fury fit, between my appletv 4k and the yamaha or between the yamaha and the projector. I currently have the appletv 4k plugged into a normal LG tv and the settings on apple tv will not allow me to set 4k which i guess is to be expected.... Any guidance would be of assistance. Thank You

[@davidwalton2428]

Hi you've been posting some great content which i keep watching , I’ve got the marantz AV- 7706 Processor i want to hook-up the new apple tv 4k to my processor, want to know if I'll be able to stream 4k dolby atmos content from Netflix, Prime , Disney etc. to my processor which is hooked up to my LG G3-77 inch TV

[@acai2216]

Whats your thoughts on dolby lldv with jvc-rs2000 vs without using it and just using JVCs DTM frame by frame

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Very good question. I havent tried or compared this but conceptually lldv is accurate and is actually what Dolby created vs DTM which is interpreted... my initial thought would be lldv over DTM but Id like to see it !

[@Sanjjeev21]

I am interested in this comparison as well

[@triDave99]

Hey Andrew, I have been using this LLDV "hack" on my JVC X7000 projector via an Oppo203 for the past week. I am basically seeing no difference in "real content" between LLDV and HDR10. Would you say this is due to the projector only displaying at around 95Nits , rather than the 600+Nits that TVs can produce? Is the difference between LLDV and HDR10 more obvious for those using ATV4ks, rather than UHD disc playback? ie LLDV works "better" on the ATV4? Thanks.

[@cpalenshus1]

I’d love to hear an answer to this, too as I’m wondering if it is worth getting the vertex2 for my epson 5040ub.

[@raymondayala5355]

@@cpalenshus1me too. I have a VAVA4k UST and wanted to know if the LLDV be worth the $500

[@josephmhines]

Hey Guys awesome work....question I have a ATV 4k and a 4k Disc connecting to a Vertex2 then going out from Vertex 2 TXO to my 4K Vava Chroma Projector and Audio HDMI to my Denon 960 AVR. My issue is while I'm seeing LLDV going in I'm seeing HDR going out. (Same as your video shows at minute 5 on the vertex OLED. I've setup vertex2 and ATV per the instructions on your article links but when I start playing DV content It shows BT2020 HDR on screen vs LLDV. (I am seeing the DV icons on my content and my ATV will allow me to set DV...but I don't see LLDV on screen like you do in minute 8:00 on your screen. Help. :) Thanks in advance for any guidance :) UPDATE in case anyone else is sharing my confusion....I spoke with HDFury Tech support (They are very responsive and helpful by the way) and learned that LLDV on the input and BT 2020 HDR showing on TX0 and on screen is correct. On the HDR/AVI tab of your HDFury Devices web portal if you have the radial selected you will get LLDV from your capable devices and a customer HDR feed to your projector for an excellent picture. (selecting is guidance given on the links provided by HTE also) If you deselect it while you will then see LLDV on your screen your colors will be washed out as you are using the customized feed created by the HDFury for your device.)

[@peterwood2633]

Thank you for the video, wasn't really understanding the hype but I get it now!

[@vmstretch]

Thanks for the video! I just ordered my HD Fury Diva. Do you recommend putting the unit between the sources and receiver or between the receiver and the projector? Does it matter?

[@zebra2917]

I am curious about this too and I’m going to order a Diva. Did you try Diva already?

[@PhotoJohn80]

Where did you end up putting it between?

[@Norobot33]

Also interested. Did anyone try?

[@peterwood2633]

No wifi in any of the hdfury products? I have no LAN access in my av room. Though thinking about it if I had to I could do a long LAN cable from one mesh router

[@magiccarpet1972]

Does it work with internal apps, such as Netflix or Disney? If yes, you just need to plug it into a TV HDMI port?

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

If your TV does DV you dont need this. Its an option on systems that do do HDR but not DV. and yes it sits between your source and your display

[@NicolasGomez97]

Does this support all types of dolby vision - i.e. profile 7 / 8 that are usually found in 4k blurays?

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Thats a good question. All I can say at the moment is that it uses the LLDV signal so I think the answer is yes but I am honestly not 100% sure

[@DarkKnight-gw4gw]

Would a device like the HD Fury help with getting a better picture from an ATV4K or Sony X800M2 connected to a 2020 Sony X950H which only has Player-led DV (LLDV) capability? Currently I noticed that ATV4K DV content does not look as good as the TVs internal apps due to the TV’s Player-led DV limitation. Does the HD Fury’s tone mapping make for a better picture, closer to what a TV-led DV display could do? Thanks.

[@louisservedio-morales5512]

I'm considering getting the DIVA to get DV on my Samsung but I never hear anyone claim any visual result only a data confirmation that Apple 4K is seeing a DV capable device. Is the end visual result of this con game visually worth it? Thanks for your video on this subject 🙏

[@RealNikolaj]

They get tons of praise on projector forums.

[@daviddave8761]

@louisservedio-morales5512 if you got dv to work on your Samsung: I am about to buy a Samsung S90C 65"( hope to get a 2nd gen panel else it go back for a other one somewhere else, u can do that in the EU) and a Apple TV device. How does Dolby Vision look on a Samsung QD-OLED compared to a Samsung QD-OLED without this feature? Just as nice? nicer? A little less good but better then no Dolby Vision at all?

[@louisservedio-morales5512]

@@daviddave8761moved on to a Sony. Sorty

[@eskwadrat]

Thanks so much for introducing me to Diva. I have exactly the problem the Diva may solve which is watching Dolby Vision movies on my latest Sony 4K dw715es model projector. This projector have no Dolby Vision support, it does hdr10 though but I'm not happy with the tone mapping it provides.

[@hellosummer9007]

Hi! Have you solved your problem?

[@natpolauyporn4819]

Hello, HTE. Does HDFury Diva make audio quality drop or make audio quality worse? Thank you for your help.

[@ladiciuslegnA]

as an hdfury diva owner, their modules passthrough audio perfectly, whether it's atmos or dts hd or just stereo

[@moveezy5591]

Did you guys ever test it on a projector I have a optoma uhd65 will it be very noticeable on this model

[@myhandymanscott]

Does this also have the Dolby Atmos extraction capabilties of the HDFury Arcana? Otherwise, I need a hybrid of both of these devices.

[@myhandymanscott]

I found the answer is Arcana is the only currently available (as of 12/18/20) HDFury device that enables eArc And Dolby Vision to HDR conversion.

[@rsman5753]

when will you demo the Diva or Vertex2 using a projector, I have the vertex 2 linked the JVC 9000 and could do with some tips. One other question why didn't you use custom settings?? on the EDID page??

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Check out the guide by Vollans on our description. Thats pretty much a step by step process to help you through..

[@captainhealthy]

Just ordered the HD Fury Arcana for Sonos Arc system. Does the Arcana also provide Dolby Vision upgrade?

[@myhandymanscott]

Yes. It provides same, however there are less options for tweaking the LLDV > HDR settings. Apparently far less than the more expensive Fury devices such as Diva and Vertex2, etc. I'm not sure how that. affects getting full benefit of LLDV > HDR though. My Arcana is supposed to arrive on DHL before the end of the day!

[@captainhealthy]

@@myhandymanscott Thanks for your reply! Has your Arcana arrived yet? I’m getting atmos and Dolby vision on my Apple TV. But on my Panasonic UB-820 4K Blu-ray player I seem to get only Atmos the video appears to still be in HDR10 not LLDV.

[@camryhsalem5139]

Thanks for great information (engineering) keep on

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Thanks, will do!

[@Lbmwm3]

Hi Andrew, This for all your KZbin content. Question: Are you using the HD Fury with the MadVR Extreme. Will it make any difference with images improvements. Plus, should calibrate your projector prior to HD Fury installation? However, do have a MADVR in my sights in the distance future (6mths-1 year). Appreciate, HTE and any advice. Thx Sir.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

It may pay for you to reach out to us via our website, email or pm us. In answer to your question no we wouldn't use an HD Fury with a MadVR there would be no benefit in this. If you are using just an HD Fury then yes I would recommend calibrating the projector first. Hope this helps.

[@Lbmwm3]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering Thanks for addressing my question, Andrew. You certainly guided me in a logical direction.Tony BuildMontage is about to do a HDFury video soon. So I’m looking forward to watching it. As Always, We appreciate HTE inspiration and guidance to our Home Theater setup😉!!

[@swierczowski]

I have an HDR TV without DolbyVision... but all content in DOLBY VISION from the Native APPS (pre-installed in the TV) it looks too dark!! I thought about buying a streaming device assuming that this way (through an HDMI connection) look normal, but I'm afraid the problem will persist. What do you think? Do you think it works? Thanks for read me 🤙🏼 Have a great day!!

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

I would say yes, maybe it is likely to persist. It is possible that your HDR settings in the TV are not correct or perhaps the TV has a low max light output or poorly adjusted black levels. Check your manual or manufacturer for best options. Or get your TV calibrated by a professional

[@swierczowski]

Oh... Thank you! The TV has NO option to adjust the HDR and the rest is good calibrated. I already spoke to Samsung and "the engineer" told me that is normal for the image to darken in HDR content 🤷🏻‍♂️ But I am still clinging that this only happens with the apps are installed. I DO NOT take away the idea that with a HDMI will look better! I dont know 🤔 Seriously, thanks 😉👌🏼

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@swierczowski you should still be able to adjust brightness contrast and gamma ..

[@YourMovieFix]

SO my projector is JVC Rs4910. It can accept a 4k signal with eshift, but no HDR. I use the UB820 from Panny and it does a great job with the SDR conversion, but because of this I cant have the 2020 color space. With this device can I get SDR 2020 on my projector?

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

No unless your projector can create bt2020 you can never get that colour space you are asking it to create something it is not capable of. Nor can it produce anything like the nit level for HDR. Rec709 however can look amazing when fully calibrated I have fooled people many times into thinking it’s HDR. I would focus on doing that well as opposed to HDR badly ??

[@YourMovieFix]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering well this model of JVC did have bt2020 color profiles made available, but from my understanding it has to be forced with an external processor. My projector is fully and professionally calibrated for SDR 709 and I think it looks AMAZING for standard blurays. Just wanted the option of 4k 2020 content without a new JVC projector.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@YourMovieFix ah ok wasn’t aware of that we don’t get that model designation here. There is a Sony like that too. If your projector can do bt2020 then yes you absolutely should be able to do this but haven’t tried this with ub820 but have with lumagen.. in theory it should work but again will need damn good tone mapping to get a nice result depending on light output and screen size etc etc

[@YourMovieFix]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll try and reach out to a calibrator here in the states and see what he thinks. Far better option than fishing out 5-6k for a new display!

[@mihaia291]

Is working with Zidoo player?

[@nicholaslicausi9308]

Do you think that a system like this can be used on one of the new projectors with dynamic tone mapping? I'm waiting for an LG HU810PW. This model states it has dynamic tone mapping, but not Dolby Vision. I'm trying to parse out if this device would be redundant or not...

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

No projector has Dolby vision. DV has refused to license projectors. So this will effectively give you DV using LLDV metadata but nothing else changes. DTM via any device is guess work anyway. If the metadata doesnt exist DTM is just that manufacturers idea of how the image could look

[@nicholaslicausi9308]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering thanks for the quick reply. Once I get the projector and have a chance to get it setup, I think I'll invest in one of the HD Fury devices. I really only need it for this Dolby Vision function. Is the Vertex2 the most economical option? In your video you mentioned some of the older units could pass this data also.

[@victorpulos823]

Good video

[@maurizio7626]

Hi. Is there any possible way to hook up the HD fury so you don’t lose OSD from your pre pro.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

You shouldn’t be losing the on screen display ??

[@maurizio7626]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering I have on screen display from the hdfury vroom but I don’t have on screen display from my Avm70. My avm70 Is in another room is there anyway to hook it up so I can see my Volume output on my pj screen.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@maurizio7626 I am not familiar with the vroom. I would suggest your settings are blocking lower resolutions of the OSD. Suggest contacting HDFury support ..?

[@maurizio7626]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering 👍

[@neildixey]

I have a hdr 10+ tv Panasonic an av receiver that supports DV are you really saying this will UG my tvs picture as not the brightest hdr. Costs over £400 in uk. Big lay out if not big difference. Any advice?

[@AceVPD]

From what I understand DV vs HDR10 makes a bigger difference the less capable the display is. It made a massive improvement on my projector as projectors are not very bright compared to TVs. Apple TV HDR looked very dim before I got an HD fury. But HDR looked good from my Panasonic 420 4K BR player as the Panasonic has some nice adjustments settings for HDR

[@AceVPD]

I'm in NZ and imported one from the US when there was a 30 percent off sale. Was much much cheaper than buying locally.

[@AceVPD]

Any more DV HD Fury videos planned?

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Absolutely just waiting for "the main man" to return from a long earned vacation ! :-) Not too long now..

[@mechanicalmonkey7777]

What about the hdfury arkane?

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

What about the Arkane? Sorry did you want to know about it?

[@rayhjr3577]

Can this device turn SDR into HDR also?

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Not as such no.

[@nanda9247]

Please help me sir, My Yamaha 3072 avr sounds treble so sharp in speaker output after I reconnected the speaker wires with power cord in ac outlet without removing.. please any remedy... I need my avr sound to be normal.. I use ns-p40 speakers package and active subwoofer of Yamaha sw050

[@littlez56]

not so clear about the device and how to buy it

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

We are not a sales channel. We are a technical channel. We clearly name and identify the device and the manufacturer. The rest is up to you.

[@Españanomado]

How apple tv 4k can be a source of dolby vision if hdmi 2.1 is needed to transfer dynamic metadata??? Apple tv 4k have 2.0a hdmi port by the way

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Hmm, so how do you think you are watching Dolby Vision on UHD discs or streamed via netflix or Disney etc without HDMI 2.1? Using your theory Dolby Vision will only be viewable when HDMI 2.1 kicks in.. but thats not the case... as flatpanelhd's HDR article nicely explains "Dolby Vision does not require HDMI 2.0a or 2.1. It embeds the metadata into video signal. Knowing that previous versions of HDMI would not pass the Dolby Vision dynamic metadata, Dolby developed a way to carry this dynamic metadata across HDMI interfaces as far back as v1.4b. The HDMI specification is now catching up with v2.0a supporting static metadata and future versions expected to support dynamic metadata as well. Dolby’s intent is not to compete with HDMI but merely to enable deployment of a full Dolby Vision HDR ecosystem without having to wait for HDMI standardization to catch up. Dolby was and is directly involved in standardization of the current and future versions of HDMI. In practice, most Dolby Vision content is in Ultra HD and requires HDCP 2.2 copy protection, which is only available on HDMI 2.0 and up." As it happens, there are multiple examples of dynamic metadata on HDMI 2.0 so LLDV is no exception...

[@Españanomado]

​@@HomeTheatreEngineering Where is it described how exactly dolby vision transmits dynamic metadata via hdmi 1.4-2.0 (a-b)? Thanks alot!

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@Españanomado I will see what I can find as to how the metadata is packeted with the signal. But this is not a concern to us. We are watching dolby vision now very happily over hdmi 2.0 so no need to wait for 2.1. Are you not able to watch Dolby Vision at the moment?

[@Españanomado]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering to be correct I have this setup: philliips 55oled754 / 12 (hdmi 2.0b)> HDMI Belkin Ultra High Speed ​​2.1> Apple TV 4k (hdmi 2.0a). And yes i have option dolby vision on apple tv and my tv also have all these hdr standarts including dolby vision. but im not sure if these realy bolby vision, because the image on netflix tv app looks diffrent (better i think) then apple netflix app in dv mode. and also on apple tv+ when i watch for example apple serial "see", when display shows sky, i see transition to color gradation. what could it be? apple video setting: 4k sdr, chroma 4:4:4, match conten: set on both "on".

[@AceVPD]

@@Españanomado I have the HD Fury Vertex 2. Confirming I can do Dolby Vision on 1.4. It works fine. A massive improvement for me with Apple TV and HDR on my projector

[@alejandrocervantes4981]

Wonderful! Now I’m wondering if this will work to get Dolby Vision tone mapping in my JVC RS4910. Has anybody tried this on a similar projector?

[@YourMovieFix]

I've got the same projector. Did you ever go this route?

[@alejandrocervantes4981]

@@YourMovieFix Yes I did. I bought the HDfury Diva when it was on sale on Monprice for $162 so I figured why not. The trick with our projectors is to have your source send something other than 4K60p or 4K50p so you can use your custom profiles to work with LLDV. If you only use 4K60 our projectors lock in to 4K2K50/60 and doesn’t let you use custom gamma which is what makes the difference. Huge difference by the way. Have you tried experimenting with your 4K sources other than 4K60p?

[@YourMovieFix]

@@alejandrocervantes4981 The only one I'll be using it with is my panasonic ub820. It's coming in the mail today and I'll be trying it out tomorrow! Not 100% sure where to put it though. In between the projector and reciever output?

[@alejandrocervantes4981]

@@YourMovieFix I have not tried the Panasonic UB820 but I have read it has good tone mapping. I have my Sony UBP-X700 output to the receiver and receiver to my projector. I remember now that our projectors are HDMI 1.4 and are not HDCP 2.2 compatible in which case you will need a HDCP 2.2 to HDCP 1.4 converter to be able to access some content specially from devices like fire stick 4K. The fire stick has a secret command to connect at 4K 30p,25p or 24p which will allow you access your custom profiles with custom gamma.

[@alejandrocervantes4981]

When you get your Panasonic UB820 make sure to set it at 24p.

[@Quetzalcoatl0]

This is like a hardware version of madVR. It does the tone mapping instead of the TV, basically you can connect even a CRT to it.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

Sort of... though the tone mapping is already done by Dolby Vision. It basically uses EDID to fool the ATV4K into thinking the TV is DV capable then passes to the TV the LLDV tone mapping but just scaled to the displays limitations.

[@Quetzalcoatl0]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering Mhm. HDR (inc DV) is metadata, not baked in the video, this is why non HDR displays, have this faded look. The display receives the raw video (like when shooting in c-log, you get more dynamic range, well it's long for explain...), and the metadata tells the display how to tone map it (instead of doing it in Davinci resolve for ex.). The display can do whatever it wants with the data. It might not be able to produce more than 600nits so it will adjust the metadata accordingly using an brand/model algorithm. This is perfect because each display can tone map to what it can do, instead of getting the baked video. So this device has to take that metadata, tone map the video and sent it to the display. This is why there are soo many settings to thinker with, so you can adjust it for your non HDR display. I have to read more on the LLDV and how it works, what are the differences

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@Quetzalcoatl0 yes agreed, Of course it is metadata, I dont believe I stated it was "baked into the source video" but that it was supplied by DV. So yes, it is supplied with the source material but not created by the external hardware. All the HDFury is doing is giving the metadata limits or "span" for that metadata to work in based on the displays specs. Re the "faded look" we need to be very careful here. This is caused by SDR metadata being forced as HDR (see our AppleTV settings video, forced HDR effectively being the ATV 4K "default" ) and not related to "non HDR displays" in this case. We are mixing topics here. So in this topic, we are talking about the difference of course between how the DV metadata (dynamic) varies from HDR10 metadata. In my previous reply I just wanted people not to think that this unit creates that metadata, it is packaged with the source video as you say. Also your comment is a little confusing as you initially say the metadata "tells the display how to tone map".. then further on you say that the display will tone map as it needs. I get it what you are saying but we dont want people to get confused. Your last sentence then talks about sending to a non HDR display. Thats not what this is about. You need an HDR display to do this particular process. In this case we are not talking about HDR to SDR conversion. The big deal here is the active vs Dynamic Tone mapping that HDR10 lacks.. on an already HDR10 capable display..this will not work well on an SDR display.

[@georgepopescu1327]

@@HomeTheatreEngineering so , let me see if I got this corectly, you can use this device HdFury to do HDR tonemapping like you can on a Lumangen or MAD VR? I am asking for a projector which is capable of handling HDR but it doesn't have dynamic tonmapping. Most movies on UHD disc have HDR10, not DV.

[@HomeTheatreEngineering]

@@georgepopescu1327 you can use it to decode Dolby Vision type tone mapping via LLDV if DV is present but HDR10 etc will map as normal it does not tone map per se it just uses existing meta data