Homosexuality and Leviticus | Doug Wilson

Pastor Douglas Wilson addresses the topic of homosexuality and the texts in Leviticus 18 and 20.
For more books and audio from Doug, visit canonpress.com

[@RobbDepp]

8 years ago? Why am I barely hearing about this now?!

[@mkshffr4936]

Setting aside KZbin's algorithm bias there is just a lot of material out there for it to choose from.

[@rg31404]

*Scrolls down to see comments. Shudders. Scrolls back up to only see video.*

[@WARTV-dn5fk]

Perfectly folded t-shirts The Navy did not desire.. But they did! No, they desired diligent obedience especially under pressure.. Brilliant, thanks Doug.

[@jessesmith9949]

So why was this comment put at the top!?

[@arepadetrigo]

Exactly. Reminds me of this old story that makes a similar point: "There was a farmer who had three teenage sons. Each Saturday, while their friends were playing video games, or cruising through town in their pick-up trucks, the three boys were required by their father to work his cornfield. One of the farmer’s neighbors took pity on the boys and suggested to the farmer that he could easily afford harvesting equipment to give the boys a break. 'I don’t know why you’re raising corn that way anyway,' the neighbor said, 'You could probably buy it cheaper than what it costs you to raise it!' The farmer just looked out at his fields where the three boys were busy at work and replied, 'I’m not raising corn; I’m raising sons.'”

[@rgiardelli]

An important point having to do with the word "abomination" in Leviticus is there are two different words in Hebrew for abomination. When it speaks of food or clothing it uses the word Sheqets, which means idolatry or unclean. When it refers to sexual acts or things having to do with the created order it uses the word tow'ebah, translated abomination, which means disgusting and against nature. So they are two different categories of abominations, so eating shell fish and sexual acts are different categories, one is considered idolatry and one is considered against nature or God created order.

[@pastorbri]

or do as Gods word says and accept the old law is dead, simple.

[@josephbeckmann8106]

Stop being so shellfish cause love is just love...sarcasm off. Lol.

[@nattybumppo4151]

So you are saying Christians who eat pork are committing idolatry?

[@rgiardelli]

@@nattybumppo4151 No, I was saying that sexual sins and the passages about clothes and what you eat are two different categories. Sexual sins are against nature, and that wont change, what we are allowed to eat or wear, is not against nature, they were comnands for the nation of Israel. And as we see in the NT sexual sins remain against nature , but what we are allowed to eat or wear did change.

[@charlestownsend9280]

@@rgiardelli how are sexual acts against nature? What is natural about marriage? Or only sleeping with one partner for your whole life (unless they're your slaves or your dead brothers wife, cause the bible says that's fine)? Or homosexuality which has been observed in many mammals? Or having a bit of me time, which is again observed in many mammals and is medically good for you and is instinctual (which by definition makes it natural)?

[@CanonPress]

Check out Doug's book "Same-Sex Mirage" here: canonpress.com/products/same-sex-mirage/

[@Godfavorabletome]

This is on point very good very good

[@anasakis]

The majority of Holiness laws had very practical applications and we no arbitrary or random at all. You have to remember this is a group of 2 million people living in tents in the desert. There is no running water and sanitation is very important. Most Holiness laws had to do with maintaining sanitary conditions and ensuring people eat only the cleanest animals prior to modern cleaning practices and products.

[@anasakis]

There are laws about cleanliness and proper handling of meat. It's not part of the 10 commandments but it is in the law.

[@chuckcribbs3398]

Excellent response!

[@itswhatevers123]

Poop 00

[@heatherwoods5703]

But not only. Yes, they had pragmatic reasons, but they often also had deeper spiritual realities as well.

[@mattgawn6630]

That was brilliant, the navy shirt folding example... Thanks Doug

[@user-sy4ec3em5o]

Levi 20:13!!! The law of the LORD is perfect rejoicing the heart - Psalm 19

[@Swimminginacoat]

Same for me. This video was very helpful.

[@hmkjr]

I was really hoping he would have let him expand on which is which? Is there another video explaining that?

[@matthewterry9413]

He did. Laws grounded in creation = creation law. I.e. murder Laws that find fulfillment in Christ = redemption law. I.e. animal sacrifice

[@michaelgenova5007]

Any recommended book on creation and redemptive laws ?

[@Harmelcon]

I doubt it. I think that's Wilson's way of putting it. He referred to the three-fold division of the law, which is fairly standard in Christian doctrine. As far as I know, it is an ecumenical doctrine--at least in the west.

[@AnointedMedia]

Best explanation I’ve ever heard

[@MarkNorthAveChurch]

Found this extremely helpful. Thanks!

[@jhoanalfaroPastor]

great stuff!

[@lindsaybarlow7946]

As a homemaker, I would love to learn the T-shirt folding method 🙃

[@mrtdiver]

In the Army we had to have t-shirts ranger rolled. Sounds different then what Doug did in the Navy. But here's a video showing the Army way: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qaCcZKGnrb9_oK8

[@mrbob5445]

My country just passed a law to allow gay marriage, an issue which I have to defend God's word from even many liberal Christians. What Doug just showed us is good information for me to have.

[@pastorbri]

so ur against marriage......after all ur against some people being married for being in love right?

[@fromdeathtolife2076]

pastor brian are you against God’s standard of marriage? You are a fraud

[@Steve_T14]

@@pastorbri marriage is a commitment before God, not something defined by man and God has decreed in his word marriage is a holy bond between a man and a woman, anything outside that is a perversion of it

[@ZephaniahL]

@@pastorbriNew realms of stupidity and immorality are what you present to us.

[@mosesking2923]

Doug makes an excellent point about Passover still being practiced but changing form. Not so much a transformation but fulfillment.

[@minnieturner1535]

I love it

[@andyhow3963]

Is it just me or is the one interviewing Pastor Doug kinda resembles an older Tyler1?

[@JustinVK]

My how this aged well... Called it.

[@jasonhinkle4083]

So what I hear as succinctly as I can understand it, is that IN Christ is the revelation of God's plan for the complete redemption, progressive sanctification, and ultimately the elevation of the collective soul of humanity? And that was God's plan from the beginning?

[@terjemullerkarlsen3028]

But WHO get to decide what is right and what is wrong in the old teastament?

[@johndresty6857]

Best Part: "David mulls over the prohibition of clam chowder"...

[@Elvengem]

The first part of this verse from leviticus 18:22 is literally translated as "And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman"( With a male,you cant have sex on the bed of a woman" )is what its saying,and that means a woman's bed is not to be adulterated with sperm emissions from another man,since a woman can only have her husband's emissions in her bed. They were strict on sperm defilement back then. This was done secularly and pagan religiously too where the pagan priestess's bed was her witness of two males having the affair ,as one male gave emission offering to her male priest. The 18:21 has a pagan practice mentioned right before verse 22,and this is all about pagan practices related to their religion as well.

[@Elvengem]

translation of hebrew masoretic text ,and from JPS bible especially. 'Leviticus 18:22,says the fol lowing: wë’et-zakar lo’ tishkab mishkëbey ‘ishah / to’ebah hw (JPS). the literal translation of this verse is “do not lie (with) male, the lyings/beds of woman / this is abhorrence” .Then its been assumed 'do not lay with a male in the way a woman does,or the fashion of a woman' but there is no proof it said that. it only says do not lay with male (in/upon?) bed of woman. The translators have often been leaving out that this a woman's bed.They did not think about adultery ritualism yet the hebrews did. Leviticus 15:16-18 is about sperm's uncleanness. deuteronomy 23:9-11,leviticus 15:4. This is because the pheremones of sperm in clothing could go into the air and would go into other people's area,and therefore it ritually represented adultery and or fornication of unintentional sexual mingling with those who were not married to the couple whom that sperm was alone dedicated for in the marriage bed.

[@drytung9526]

Seemed to really skirt the issue actually.

[@Kd4c]

Just now seeing this. So what you're saying is that biblical references can change over time. Just add homosexuality as one more thing that is changing over time.

[@rossdaboss1959]

Isaiah 53:5, But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes, we are healed.For salvation, people just need to follow the way they did it in Acts? They were baptized in the water and of the spirit. Here's why! The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If we are to follow him, we must do the same thing. Death= repentance, Burial = baptism, and resurrection = being filled with the Holy Ghost and rising again from the dead. That's what Acts 2:38 is.We must obey the gospel, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew 7:21-23, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in Heaven. St John 3:3-5, EXCEPT a man be born of WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of GOD.We can't come up with our own gospel. Galatians 1:8-9, But though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Don't be cursed. One way for all people. Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritan. Our salvation has to match-up with the scriptures and no scriptures on the subject can be taken away.Eternity is TOOO long to be WRONG! st, John 5:39, Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.God told Noah exactly how to be saved, how he must build the ark. Noah didn't come up with his own plan like people are doing today. A sinner's prayer, you just have to believe, etc which is not in the bible.The gospels show what Christ has done on the cross for us. The book of Acts shows us the beginning of Christ's Church and how to enter the Church, obeying Acts 2:38. The letters were written to the Church to show us how to behave now that we are born again into the Church.It's better to walk alone than to walk with a crowd going in the wrong direction. Are we supposed to follow the teachings of the apostles? Acts 2:42, They continued steadfastly in the apostle's doctrines. Ephesians 2:20, We are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone. Jesus Christ truly loves you. Do you truly love him? If you believe in this message, help spread it in the name of Jesus Christ. God bless you

[@lilchristuten7568]

True baptism is baptism of the Holy Ghost.

[@gandalfthepink7258]

then why wont it go away

[@GentlemanJack295]

Homosexuality is condemned in the New Testament in Romans and Corinthians.

[@michaelclark2458]

Exactly…And Jude 1:7 and Revelation 22:15 among a few other places.

[@tyc4587]

AND Matthew 19 when Jesus references the marriage in genesis 2!

[@Maksie0]

A good reason to condemn the New Testament.

[@friedricengravy6646]

Bigotry is still bigotry even when its sanctioned by religion. Just more evidence that the Bible is a set of books written by men for men, supporting the hierarchy of power with philosophers creating an all seeing eye to usher communities into civilization.

[@friedricengravy6646]

Do u follow every word of the New Testament or is it just gays that u recall from the book(s)??

[@JimmieJamOfTheDay]

The reason for the change is because the law of Moses is no longer relevant. The Law of Christ replaced it. The idea that the law of Moses was divided into ceremonial laws and moral laws has been long held, but I have found that was not the actual case. The law of Moses was divided into two sets of commandments: Commandments between God and man, known as Works/Jobs. The other set of commandments were commandments between man and man, known as Ethics/Justices. Jesus issued His Law in Matthew 7:12 in which no Work/Job based commandments are found. The Law of Christ only consists of Ethics/Justices. Circumcision fell under the Work/Jobs category, which is why Paul says what he says in Romans 2:26-27. In that text, Paul is making the point that if an uncircumcised man keeps the Law's requirements, it doesn't matter if he's uncircumcised. Being uncircumcised does not prevent him from keeping the Law. The same would apply if a homosexual keeps the requirements of the Law, it wouldn't matter that he (or she) is homosexual. Being homosexual doesn't prevent a person from keeping the Law. If paid attention to, one can also see in Romans chapter one that Paul references the idolatry involving sex acts and he does not give them the death penalty as was the case in the law of Moses in Leviticus. Paul could not say such things were worthy of death because he knew those things fell under the category of Works/Jobs and were no longer prohibited under the Law of Christ. He brought up the idolatry to drive home the point to Jew that the law of Moses is no longer the law. The Levitical references to men with men was, contextually, a reference to the idolatrous practices done out of service and devotion to false gods, like Molech. Such practices fell under the category of Works/Jobs (things done out of religious devotion to a false god or goddess). The Sodom story is somewhat pointless to use in an anti-gay conversation because it's not even related to the issue of the legitimacy of homosexual relationships. It's a story about potential rape and the mistreatment of others: a violation of the Law to come (Matthew 7:12) and which already was (Leviticus 19:18). Nonetheless, the story is constantly used as proof that God is opposed to homosexuality when really, it's not proof at all, contextually.

[@karens3805]

The Israelites made a covenant with God. An agreement to be the school teacher in thier laws and ceromonies to teach the world about God and what he was doing for our redemption. Jesus. The Israelites were told to show the world through symbolic examples in religious rights and ceromonies and Sabbath's and habits even. This was a two way covenent. Whenever the Israelites started to act like the world and therefore corrupt the teachings that they were supposed to be teaching through thier culture they were punished. Thier land was taken.They broke thier covenent many times. God would give them chances to try again. Jesus was the fulfillment of the prophecies. Covenent over, however we learn from the covenent about God and what he stands for.

[@jrmillerschon]

The moral code within the Torah consists of all Laws that God gave Israel and the Ten commandments are not the just the moral code because there is more than just ten commandments.

[@mkshffr4936]

My friend I think that your definition is still too narrow. A large part of God's law was given before Israel even existed. Cain, the sons and daughters of Noah, the inhabitants of Sodom, and others got into a good bit of trouble before Moses.

[@dustinsprague5083]

I try to hang with him but this seems like the definition of cherry picking

[@kylediaz3302]

Creation law, still looking for that in my bible; I don't see it. I only see God's Law, the Law that is perfect converting the soul (Ps 119,Ps19), the Law that Paul said was holy and just, and good (Rom 7:12). The Law that Paul delighted in (7:22), the Law that Paul said was not dead (7:13), the Law that is not made void but rather is established through faith (Rom 3:31). Christ removed the curse of the Law (Gal 3), He didn't remove the Law of God. Those who try to justify themselves by the works of the Law have fallen from grace (Gal 5). Salvation through faith and obedience to the Law of God (JUST LIKE Jesus, apostles, Abraham, John the Baptist and his parents, Luke 1:6) is not justification through works. By faith we are saved, but faith without works in dead! Works of what? Works of the Law. What Law? God's Law. Are we saved by the works of the Law? Nay, we are saved by faith, but our obedience to His Law is a demonstration of that faith. Abraham believed in God and was saved, then took that faith and was obedient to God and circumcised himself. Is circumcision made dead because of faith, Certainly not! If a man believes he is saved by faith apart from the works of the Law but wants to circumcise himself or his son on the 8th day out of obedience, does that mean he has fallen from grace, Certainly not! But those who attempt to justify themselves (ex: circumcision) before God through the Law, they have fallen from grace. For if they believe they can be justified through the works of the Law, then let them be obedient to the entire Law, and if they who attempt to be justified through the Law fall in one point of the Law then the curse of the Law has fallen upon them (Gal 3:10). Or else for what reason would Paul tell his brethren to continue circumcision, if circumcision causes you to fall from grace (Acts 21, Gal 5)? Circumcision for justification causes you to fall from grace, but circumcision out of obedience is obedience through faith; faith working with works. James 2:14-26 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [f]your works, and I will show you my faith by [g]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe-and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [h]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [i]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [j]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[@fivepointbaptist]

I would argue differently. There is creation law and there is covenant law. The two are separate and they overlap. Creation law applies to every human being. Covenant law applies to those who are in covenant. Example: Do not murder is a Creation law and a covenant law. It applies to everyone. Baptism is covenant law. It applies only to Christians. Now! Old Covenant law does not apply to anyone! Why? Because the old covenant has been done away with. You cannot separate law and covenant. If one goes, so too does the other. Christians are under the Law of Christ, not the law of Moses. Lastly, there is no 3 fold division of the law. Its made up.

[@MC-sn2so]

So much arguement over something so clearly stated over and over in the new testament. If scripture says "Though shall not murder" .. it doesn't need to say with a knife, with poison, with a sword, with whatever , it says .... though shall not murder. When scripture states over and over and over again ... Sex outside marriage " Fornication,Sexual Immorality, Adultery" is wrong then it does matter if its with a member of the same sex or not ... it's sex outside marriage.

[@lilchristuten7568]

The point of the holiness law wasn't to teach obedience, it was to teach that mankind was incapable of rising to the standard that God required. It showed us that mankind was sinful by nature and that we required a saviour who could keep the whole law.

[@josephbeckmann8106]

Also Paul said that without the law he wouldn't have known what sin was.

[@user-hf8zv7qw4l]

The purpose of the law is to teach us what the right to do and what should we not do. That's why Apostle Paul called it "guardian". Your explanation doesn't make sense because that would mean we don't have to do what is right and we could do wrong things because the Saviour "kept the law for us". That's really flawed argument that sprung up because christian theologians did not understand fully the teachings of the Apostle Paul so they make this kind of silly arguments so for christians not to obey Torah. In fact, the very difficult thing to follow in Torah is not the ceremonial part because its just ceremonial, the most difficult part of Torah is the ETHICAL and MORAL part. By your argument, can we not follow the Law specially on the moral part because the Saviour "kept it for us"? Actually what the Apostle Paul taught is that in the present moment, we have natural bodies which are corrupt. This is the reason why we are having a hard time follow Torah. The disobedience of the Law is "sin". If you murder, you sin. If commit adultery, you sin. The role of the Messiah is to take the "curse" and the "penalty" on our behalf. Secondly, the Messiah is the model of Law observance. because He fulfills it. So we ought to emuliate His example. We are not ought to stop obeying Torah because "Messiah kept it for us". That's silly argument. For now, since we have natural bodies that have evil inclination but we need to obey Torah of God so we will have a hard time following it. But thanks to the Messiah he became a sacrifice for our sins like the "lamb" sacrifised on the Temple for the sins of the Israel. Now, when the "world to come" is here when the Messiah comes back, he will turned our natural bodies to become "glorious bodies" just like His body. Glorious bodies are spiritual bodies, not corrupt and immortal and strong. This spiritual bodies are perfect and will not sin. These bodies will follow the Torah without transgressing it. This will in the Kingdom of God when the Messiah comes back.

[@user-hf8zv7qw4l]

Holiness law is ought to obey for us to be holy. The thing is, we are in our natural bodies which have sinful nature so we have a hard time following the Laws of God. But we ought to be obey it because sinners will not inherit Kingdom of God (adulterers, idolaters, murderers etc.). But God sent us the solution, the Messiah is our Lamb in which our transgressions of the law are "forgiven". But this doesn't mean we deliberately sin always because the Messiah can take away sins.

[@robertfishter2862]

God did care about the ox.

[@lapboard340]

That’s because the ox is one of God’s gifts that makes life easier for man. Man should take care of God’s gifts.

[@charlestownsend9280]

people who use the laws of the old testament should back it up with the new testament. whenever i see someone quoting the bible against homosexuality they gladly quote the old testament but struggle to back it up with the new testament.

[@aaronstately]

It is easy. Jesus specifically quotes a creation law: Matthew 19:4 4He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” While here Jesus is discussing Divorce with the pharisee's, he also clearly lays out the intention of Gods creation in regards to both sexes.

[@verdevalley1966]

romans 1:26---27-28-turned over to reprobate for homosexual---1Tim.1:10--backs up o.t. and more-------

[@Kuudere-Kun]

That intention does not itself ban other forms of Love. You are trying to use Bible verses with a specific intent to justify a Materialist view of Sex.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

Arsenokoitis was a word we can't be sure how to translate since seemingly Paul invented it. Frankly I roll my eyes at every quotation of Romans 1, because that was Paul Rhetorical Speech, describing the viewpoint of the Jewish believers who were condemning the Gentiles. The entire rest of the Epistle is refuting that. That includes later using the exact same term for "Against Nature' to describe what God does grafting Gentiles into Israel.

[@jackjones3657]

1 Cor. 6:9 also speaks clearly about adulterers, fornicators, swindlers, homosexuals etc. not inheriting the kingdom of God.

[@bruceschweyer896]

The problem is not sex. The problem is adultery; or more specifically: fornication, idolatry and adultery. Such troublesome trysts can never be soul-edifying or life-affirming. It is not the divine intent that one place a square peg in a round hole. Believe it or not, matters of biology and morality are inextricably intertwined. The person who maintains a pure and mature perspective on Life understands this full-well. Granted, we all have 20/20 hindsight.

[@DragonCharlz]

So, I'm an atheist who is just curious to see more of what Christians have to say against homosexuality. Honest questions here, and would like some honest answers. 1. If I do not believe in ANY religion, and trust that I have really good reasons for not believing as I've spent months looking into it, why should I be against homosexuality? And don't bring up any debunked arguments about disease or family values or anything like that because I've already got responses to all that. 2. Why is what homosexuals (consenting adults) do in the privacy of their own homes a concern of yours? 3. Have you heard what science says about homosexuality? Science has determined that is it a completely natural occurrence although I do not believe the cause is exactly pinned down, but they do have some really good ideas as to what causes it. Do you think what religion says about homosexuality is more important that what science says, and if so, why? Remember, I'm an atheist so throwing scriptures at me will have no effect.

[@davesny302]

1.why should I be against homosexuality? Why should you be for or against anything? How do you make any moral pronouncement of any kind? ( Those are honest questions) On to the answer you wanted. My personal belief is this: Jesus lived as a historical figure (there is much evidence to support this) and said that man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife. When he gave a picture of marriage and loving relationship, he said heterosexual marriage is the original design. 2. Why is what homosexuals (consenting adults) do in the privacy of their own homes a concern of yours? If one adult consented to the other adult killing them, should this concern anyone? I know that is extreme but the same logic applies. When Christians talk about moral pronouncements from God's original design, many don't like that but we still believe the original design was heterosexual marriage, any and all sex outside of heterosexual marriage is a sin. 3. I have actually, I have also read many studies concerning the amount of partners homosexuals have compared to that of heterosexuals. I have also read about what happens to the children of homosexual couples. The amount of partners the average homosexual has is astonishing and i think you should look into it. The sociological effects of homosexuality are well documented, look at the studies on the Netherlands. What religion says about homosexuality doesn't matter to me, what God says is more important. I have what i would believe is accurate evidence that Jesus is God and what he said matter. Hope this helps you understand a Christian's viewpoint. Fire back at me if you like.

[@DragonCharlz]

1. Why should I be against anything? Because I believe that good things should be rewarded and bad things should be punished for the bettering of society. Murder and stealing demonstrably hurt people, they should be punished, as I don't want to be killed or have things stolen from me, and it is reasonable to believe the vast majority of people would agree with that. Good things, like charity work, should be rewarded because it makes people feel better and helps society as a whole. Homosexuality is neutral IMO, as it doesn't harm or hurt anyone. I have my personal doubts about Jesus. However, I'm sure he was not born of a virgin, as from what I hear, all virgin births only produce females, but its insanely rare to begin with, if I remember hearing correctly. Its something I'd need to double check, but you can if you'd like. A lot of people claim interactions with God, but I'm sure you don't believe all of them. Just whats in your current religion. People made up tons of stories about people back in those days, and very few are believable. He can claim to be the son of God, but stories written generations after his birth are not enough to convince a skeptical person like myself. Then again, I don't care what Jesus said, so the fact that he says marriage is between a man in a woman is no different than if Spiderman said that, although I have more respect for Spiderman. 2. For one thing, comparing homosexuality to killing is rather insulting, but I'll let it go this time. I'd say in this instance, I'd say it should be a public concern because I'm sure the both of us could agree that the person who wants to be killed is mentally unstable. However, we don't know the whole situation. He could be terminally ill and in a lot of pain and wishes to no longer suffer as well. Either way, if they consent, then that's fine, they're going to find a way to kill themselves if they really want to. I'm sure that sin is not a real thing, along with God, so none of that means anything to me. Some of God's moral pronouncements are good, but not because he said them, but because we can evaluate them with our compassion and empathy and determine that they are beneficial for society. However, people ignore 1/2 of his moral pronouncements anyways, so just picking on 1 to harm a portion of the community is also immoral in itself demonstrably, as it cause harm in the form of depression mostly, and occasionally ending their lives in suicide because they cannot meet a standard based on an ancient book because we cannot change who we are. Trust me, there are homosexuals who try to change. The only thing they can do is suppress their feelings, which is emotionally and psychologically damaging. 3. The amount of partners homosexuals have is none of your business and has no effect on your life. Keep in mind, most homosexuals who want marriage equality clearly want 1 partner, so that destroys any argument you can try from that angle. You're most likely looking at very biased studies on homosexuality, as all psychological fields of study I know in the US says that there is nothing negative about homosexuality and that trying to change them is only harmful and does not actually turn them heterosexual. They are successfully raising children, many of them are living together in monogamous relationships, and those who want to just sleep around are free to do so, that is their choice. Keep in mind, heterosexual couples have extremely high divorce rates and are leaving children in broken homes every day, so I could make a case against heterosexual marriage for the sake of the children, but I won't because I think that's just as silly as denying right to homosexuals because of a book that I know is pure fiction. You really need non biased sources, we all know better now a days. And don't try to separate God and religion, God only exist in the religion until actually proven otherwise. No one has ever been able to show he exist objectively, and in that sense, any god ever created by man can be claimed to exist, too, all while everyone denies each others gods. Whatever evidence you have that they actually exist and said those things would be interesting to hear, but I'm sure its something that has been debunked 1000s of times, but you can try if you want. The Bible in itself is not evidence for God or Jesus, as the Star Wars series is also not evidence for Luke Skywalker no matter how hard someone may claim to believe in it and the force. I'll be checking around here from time to time, just message me back on here.

[@DragonCharlz]

1. Nazis killed innocent people by any reasonable definition of innocent. Unless killing and torturing innocent people is acceptable by your moral standards (which is it according to God since he does it a few times) then I believe there is something terribly wrong with you. The reason why I say homosexuality is neutral is because it is not significantly useful or harmful to anyone. Excluding the issues that bigots have getting their panties in a bunch whenever homosexuals get rights, there has not been any valid reason to punish homosexuality. Sure, you can say it doesn't do anything particularly great either, so its neutral. Pedophilia is demonstrably harmful psychologically to children. Incest, although something I am not interested in, is neutral IMO as long as they're consenting adults. This is what makes all forms of rape (which pedophilia is rape the vast majority of the time) and rape means that 1 person is not consenting to it, so that is morally wrong for going against their will as it is, once again, demonstrably harmful. As for Jesus, virgin birth myths have been done by other cultures, so that doesn't make his unique. Eye witness testimony is unreliable. You know the concept of centaurs exist because people who saw guys riding horseback for the first time thought that the man and the horse were one being. Also, people TODAY claim that aliens abducted them, sometimes even in huge numbers. A large group of Mexicans claimed that they saw the sun move around the sky erratically. Others claim to see ghost and talk with dead people. Do you believe all that too? Eye witness testimony alone is not enough, and people in the time of the Bible had a very limited ability to test what was actually real and factual. People used to think maggots spawned from meat and mental disorders were caused by demon possession. I'm sure if I told you that I believe in Ra or Thor's stories you'd think I was silly. We have more ability to investigate the world today for real answers than we did in the past, and that is why many of us are much more skeptical of these outrageous stories than we have been before. Also, our evidence of other people who lived in the past comes from more independent sources than anything in the Bible. 2. Lets assume morality is relative, which to a degree, it is IMO. Homosexuality in no way shape or form is anywhere close to murder on any scale by a reasonable person. Btw, you know "homosexuality" in the Bible is more than likely a mis-translation being that homosexuality wasn't really a concept of those people from what I understand. Either way, killing someone and ending their existence forever against their will is clearly bad, its really bad, and that's why we typically punish is harshly here, and pretty much most places in the world. Homosexuality, the consenting sexual relationship between 2 people of the same gender, doesn't do any actual harm to anyone. Sure, bigots will be upset about it, however, they don't lose anything and nothing is actually happening to them because of the existence of homosexuals. Once again, there is no benefit either that you couldn't also claim is a benefit for heterosexual couples, which is why I claim it as neutral. The Bible's morality is unjust and disgusting. Women are property, slavery is OK, genocide is pretty common place, but homosexuality, shell fish, and clothing of 2 materials is a problem. You've got to be kidding me if you really think those are some sort of moral standards to go by. I go by reason, empathy, and compassion. No God can claim something is moral if there is justification against its claims, and trust me, we have a lot. That's why we don't stone bad children. Having more people available to raise children can be seen as an advantage to homosexual relationships. However, it is DISPROVEN that they will not grow up properly, stop looking at conservative biased sources and look at what science is really saying. There are lots of legitimate studies you can look into. If you think America is liberal, I'd only say your partially right, but conservatives here tend to be insane. I'm moderate myself, because extremes on either end aren't reasonable. However, I'm telling you whatever research you are looking at is BS. There are so many children who are raised by same sex couples who are just fine, and sure, some of them might not be. But don't sit there and act like heterosexual couples get it right 100% of the times, that couldn't be further from the truth. Studies have found that 2 parents is the best thing for children, regardless of their genders. I'm not going to touch on the evolution thing much, because its real and you just gotta get over that. Its been observed, and there is too much evidence backing it up. Sure, some scientist have lied in the past, and they get called out for it, and most likely lose their ability to give input anymore. I'm pretty sure I've heard about this very situation you're talking about and that's already been taken care of by the scientific community. Only real and accurate science has practical application. 3. Your first point you destroyed yourself... so I don't know what you were getting at. If you friend has multiple partners, that's his choice, and sure you may be bothered by their decisions, but they don't have to live by your rules unless they are your child. You can't tell them what to do, but you can give him suggestions, but either way, as you stated yourself, your scenario applies to both homosexual and heterosexual couples, and bisexual, and furries, and so on, so its totally pointless for you to even bring that up. Christians do not have the lowest divorce rates. I believe the last statistics I saw had our southern states with higher religious tendencies to be the highest divorce rates in the country, with the less religious having lower divorce rates. But then again, this is my facts/your facts, and I have no idea where you're finding your facts from, but they sound like BS to me. Just from living in a southern state myself, everyone who I know has Christian parents nearly, and about 50% had their parents divorced. No lie, I just recounted in my head. The Big Bang Theory simply refers to the current model of what we have found out about the origin of the universe. It does not have all the answers yet as to how absolutely everything worked. They're trying their best to actually understand reality, and they'll keep working and test the theory to make sure that what they come up with is as accurate as possible, which is the most honest approach to a question you can do. When someone claims its God, but they can never prove he exist objectively, that's a problem, as you're declaring the properties of an entity that you have no interaction with. That's like if I told you how alien's biology works. I have no clue, I've never seen them, and don't know if there are any, so I can't make those type of claims. Everyone makes different claims about God, and some claim its different gods or different forces, and no remote proof for any of it. Before we can claim that something outside the "natural system," which I assume means supernatural, is even able to do something, you must have some evidence that it exist. There is no overwhelming evidence for miracles, they only fall into 2 categories. Either they've already been debunked and you refuse to believe it, or they are unfalsifiable and in that case not worth discussing. You never heard God say he created anything, some group of crazies 2000 years ago wrote it down in a book, and their religion was successful enough to be carried on and it was forced upon a lot of people. If the people who believed in Norse gods were the most successful, we'd all be believing in Thor and Odin right now, and I'd be arguing you against their existence. When you live by God's morality, you're actually not living by any morality. You're living by the rules of a fictional dictator who threatens you into belief. You're told not to question him, for that is an extremely punishable offense. You can't see that his reward of an afterlife is true until you're dead, convenient... his properties are so that he can do whatever he wants, but supposedly only if its according to his plan, which we cannot actually find out what his plan is... convenient. He exist outside of our reality... convenient. He has properties that are specific to him and no other entities in the universe... once again, convenient. He's such an overwhelming silly concept that I can no longer grasp how people can believe in it. Now being that I am convinced that he doesn't exist and am convinced that Jesus, if he did exist, was just a normal, moral man like all the rest of us who just got a lot of attention, I have found other ways of figuring out the answer to moral questions. Does it harm people? Is it fair? How would I feel on the other end of that? How would you feel if someone told you that heterosexuality was wrong and that you needed to be in a homosexual relationship or face cosmic judgement after your death and constant ridicule on earth, even though you aren't directly doing anything to negatively affect other people. I know that seems absurd more than likely, but... think about it from my end. Its clearly not fair to punish me for a factor of my life that I cannot change. If God made people, and homosexuality is a sin, then he would not have made people homosexual unless he was an idiot. Why make someone who fails automatically? We don't chose to be homosexual, despite what others may think. Why would we choose a harder lifestyle when we could simply go the easy mode of heterosexuality? The answer is we just can't. I've looked at tons of religions, they all make a ton of claims that they say is proven throughout their text and their history, but the more religions I've looked into, the more similar they are. They just can't prove anything, never have, never will. Its all about this thing called "faith." Throw away your concept of reality and believe in something that's literally magical. I can't do that anymore, and I never will again. You show me magic, and then we can work from there. Until then, the Bible is full of contradictions, its full of lies, and its largely fictional. Look at what atheist have found out about the Bible. Its funny, the one thing that atheist typically encourage people to do is to read the entire Bible, as that's why most of them are atheist today. Homosexuals are mistreated because of the author of the Bible's dislike of "homosexual" temple prostitution 2000 years ago... look that up... not to mention all the times Christianity has stood against civil rights throughout history. You should check out Matt Dillahunty here on KZbin. He was a fundamentalist Christian for most of his life, and went to investigate to see if the Bible was true when he wanted to be a minister. Now, he's an atheist because he found out everything he believed about religion was unproven.

[@DragonCharlz]

***** A. The scriptures are just words written by man until actually proven otherwise. Nothing in the Bible or any religious text is anything that couldn't have been written by people. B. Nature in the Bible refers to culture of the time, not nature in the sense of the natural world. Technically, everything is in nature, the only thing that is not natural is the insane claims of religion. I won't even bother reading the rest because you claim deep meaning in a book full of lies. I'll live by reality. You enjoy your fantasy.

[@DragonCharlz]

***** Funny how you call me ignorant and you see being black and hispanic is a curse. We know through science (mainly genetics) where blacks and hispanics come from, yet you want to claim its magic. Fine, I'll stick to my proven and verifiable science while you still with your lies and magic in religion. People who use science will continue to learn more about how the world actually works and be able to apply that knowledge to new advancements in society. You'll... um... continue reading the same fantasy book and playing make believe with a supreme invisible friend? I won't bother commenting anymore to you. You are too far gone.

[@toddnotnilc1829]

There is ceremonial laws, moral laws and dietary laws. The ceremonial laws are done away with, the moral and dietary laws are still binding and that means the seventh day sabbath is still in tact and we are commanded to observe it as well as the other nine

[@user-hf8zv7qw4l]

I agree. Plus the Temple was destroyed so Laws regarding Temple are virtually impossible to do. Good thing we have the Messiah.

[@Resenbrink]

How does it change if it’s perfect? Oops

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

Because we're not perfect. Oops

[@Resenbrink]

Chandler Keaton is the bible the inspired word of god or not? Sounds a lot like not.

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

@@Resenbrink Of course it sounds like it's not to you. You have made back to back comments demonstrating that you have no working knowledge of it. We have to actually investigate and study a thing before being able to intelligently discuss or critique it. A ceremonial law designed by God for a specific people in a specific period is perfect for them. Naturally, this does not mean it would be perfect for a different people in a different period for whom it was not designed. This is why clueless heathens can make stupid comments like Christians "pick and choose" which parts to believe. They are wholly ignorant of the various redemptive epochs, and God's dealings with man during them. Of course, they are also ignorant of biblical narrative, genre, cultural context, original audience, background events of each book, etc. Par for the course though.

[@Resenbrink]

Chandler Keaton how convenient all these escape routes exist to preserve the truth of the bible, though I can’t help but notice that the only people apparently able to discern the real meaning of the bible are Christians.

[@Michael_Chandler_Keaton]

@@Resenbrink Not convenient, simply logical. You're attempting a tired tactic that has been obliterated everytime it has been discussed between the two sides. That vapid and childish maneuver only works in an echo chamber. When it is challenged, it folds like paper. This idea that a book, that is actually a collection of over 60 books, written by 40 different authors over a period of 1500 years must somehow be constrained like no other document in history, by illogical rules of literature, is so banal as to warrant little more than scorn. Works of literature vary in nature and genre; this is simple scholastic truth. The bible then, speaks to generations of people over the course of multiple civilizations and cultures. The notion that every word it contains somehow must apply across time to every people on the face of the earth is literally so ignorant and idiotic that we couldn't apply it to any compilation of writings ever transcribed, and if we even attempted such we would be laughed out of any reputable academic circle. It is frankly about the dumbest thing imaginable and a stunning sample of the complete nescience of the subject on the part of the atheists who critique it. We cannot be blamed that some folks are just too mentally dull to understand how literature works.

[@NathanP711]

Another point not mentioned is that a good way to distinguish between creation law and redemption law is to see what commandments are reiterated in the New Testament. If something’s important it’s repeated. How many time did your mother tell you to look both ways before crossing the road? In the New Testament the commandment is given many times to avoid sexual immorality, and homosexuality is specifically spelled out as being immoral.

[@KURTAINS77]

I THOUGHT GOD WAS GOD & NOT MAN!!

[@mesisson]

The law is not of faith. Galatians. A new dynamic, which bookends the book of Romans - an obedience of faith. This law and that law, and distinctions not found in scripture. You are not under the law, but under grace. The new covenant.

[@sumthinfresh]

Grace to be free from sin. Put to death your fleshy ways

[@robwells5753]

what about people that are born with a gene crossover/ gay? its not a choice but preachers never address that question. They always talk like its a choice

[@CanonPress]

Many former homosexuals say it (like other sins) are indeed choices. The Bible confirms this: "And such were some of you" (1 Cor 6:10-11).

[@TheBandit7613]

@@CanonPress My brother is a homosexual. He was not "gay" when we grew up. He made the choice in his late 20's. I saw it happen with my own eyes. I don't know why, we don't talk anymore. I don't want my kids exposed to that kind of behavior. It's tough enough trying to counter all the immoral ideas they are exposed to in our mixed-up society as it is.

[@jackjones3657]

@@TheBandit7613 You make a valid point that it is your responsibility to parent your children in the way that is pleasing to the Lord. Sadly, this sometimes means we need to shelter our own children from self-destructive family members who would harm us with their own wayward behavior. The world calls this intolerant. They are misled, many willfully.

[@pastorbri]

Its homophobia thats a choice

[@davidcrutchfield138]

We are all born sinners. That's why Jesus said, "You must be born again." By the grace of God we put our faith in what Christ did on the cross, we are made new. It is a war from that point till we get home to heaven.. "Where sin abounds grace does much more abound."

[@jred7]

Pretty sure that when you were learning to hold that stubby pencil your teacher didn’t give you a set of letters that you weren’t going to need when you learned how to “really” write .

[@qwerty123494210]

You are correct. In that analogy, the letters would be the timeless principles of God which we are learning to keep. They don't change, we simply are supposed to come into fuller understanding and obedience of them.

[@1bertoncelj]

Am I getting this right? ... because god created men and women that also somehow indicates how you are allowed to have sex? I have problem with this because just by this fact alone I don't think we can conclude that. There is a lot of information missing about how we are supposed to use our sexual organs before we can conclude that. Can someone please elaborate?

[@himynameisjohnwumsh7631]

If you read the Bible, you will find all the missing information.

[@1bertoncelj]

@@himynameisjohnwumsh7631 can you point out which parts fill in the missing information?? like I am definitly not reading the whole bible lol

[@himynameisjohnwumsh7631]

@@1bertoncelj : why won’t you read the Bible?

[@1bertoncelj]

​@@himynameisjohnwumsh7631 1) I doubt it will answer my question, I would probably have even more questions after reading it 2) it's kinda long 3) there are so many good books that I want to read instead 4) I don't like reading books in general 5) it would be stupid to read this whole book to just get an answer to this One question

[@himynameisjohnwumsh7631]

@@1bertoncelj : please don’t reject the word of God.

[@thinker1942]

before the 19th century there was no concept of sexual orientation... so what the Bible speaks of is behavior. If a homosexual does not engage in sexual activity h/she is not guilty of sin. H/she has a passion to overcome but is not sinful less they have same sex sexual relationships..

[@TheB1nary]

Deborah Valentine wrong.

[@pastorbri]

why should gay people overcome how God made them to be? Thats what homophobics should be doing. As homophobia is a choice.

[@adrianelittle3759]

@@pastorbri Genesis 1:27 “ So God created man in His own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” Genesis 2:22 “ And from that rib that the LORD God had taken from the man, He made a woman and brought her to him. Genesis 2:23 “ And the man said: “ This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called “woman”, for out of man she was taken.” Genesis 2:24 “ Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.” That’s how God made us. God did not make anyone homosexual.

[@pastorbri]

@@adrianelittle3759 I get bible logic is beyond you.....but this passage is about God creating humans and 2 genders, it is NOT about sexual orientation.....are you a bit on the simple side? God did create us all with a different sexual orientation. LGBT and heterosexual. Or do you assume God is a bit rubbish and made us all the same??? Is that it?

[@josephbeckmann8106]

@@pastorbri Is there a gay gene?

[@denali9643]

Talk about making ashes out of beauty. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

[@BroJ3221]

This guy could be a politician. He talked for 4 whole minutes and never answered the original question. Quite incredible to be honest

[@rexlundstrom2333]

He’s answering the question broadly instead of specifically. Basically he says people had to go through the motions of morality with a bunch of do’s and do not’s before they could begin to see that there are principles which were implied in these actions. And what’s vital to understand is that the principles themselves are more important than the individual actions, but, strangely enough, humans needed to first act out many rules which ran parallel to those deeper principles in order to reach an understanding.

[@rexlundstrom2333]

An understanding of right and wrong that is.

[@darylfishwick622]

Look you don't have to follow any of this. You are allowed to believe what you want. He is allowed to believe what he wants. Maybe it's YOU that's intolerant. He's telling you what the bible instructs and why . You don't have to adhere to it. If it upsets you don't listen.

[@gl00merz]

Secularists and heathens don't need to follow this.

[@BroJ3221]

@@gl00merz heathens 😂😂😂

[@gl00merz]

@@BroJ3221 literally a depraved society of heathens wanting to change the reality of lust

[@BroJ3221]

@@gl00merz am I wrong to assume you’re lumping in all “non believers” into this category of secularists and heathens? If I am wrong, I do apologize…

[@gl00merz]

@@BroJ3221 yeah all atheists are heathens 100%. Agnostics I leave wiggle room for. Heathens is a great word for them and their toxic ideas of relativism

[@morganwildwood6168]

You see, and this is a big thing in why I never became a Christian. I respect Doug a LOT and even agree with Christianity on many things. But here he's flat out telling you that it's based on obedience, and that questioning - thinking about the "why?"- is wrong. I could never accept that even if I wanted to. However I still think these interviews are fascinating and find myself aligned with many of the morals in their religion, especially against the madness of the left in these days. In that, we stand together.

[@Chronos770]

Obedience is something that comes from God opening your eyes when the time is right and being born again. By all means, think about the "why" in everything. Why do you agree with many of these things? Why do you think the way you do? Why do you live the way you do? Why do you believe what you do? How do you know anything of this to really be true? See where you end up, God bless you my friend.

[@mikebrines5708]

Before God issued the 10 Commandments he stated, "I am the LORD thy God...." He's stating why we should obey, not because it's beneficial but just because the Creator of the universe says we should. He doesn't have to justify himself to us. He is the Creator and we are his creatures. He does the same thing every other place in Exodus where he issues commands and laws. I was a soldier in my younger days. When the sergeant said to do something, you didn't ask why because you knew he had the authority and bad things would happen if you did not. Unlike sergeants, God loves us so whatever he commands is for our good.

[@mikebrines5708]

You say you don't want to be a Christian because you want to ask questions, but what you're really saying is you want to do what you want to do. You want to know why so you can decide for yourself what to do, or not to do. You want to be the decider. You want to be God rather than letting God be God and obeying your Creator. It's not about questions, it's about pride. It's the same exact thinking that got Lucifer in trouble.

[@heatherwoods5703]

The others here answered well. Put another way, there IS a Creator. He gets to make the rules. You may not understand WHY the rules are where they are, but YOU (and I) will stand before Him at Judgement for the rules we've broken. Whether we understand them or not. OR we can submit to His authority, and pray for understanding as we walk in obedience. God bless. I pray you will come around. It sounds like you are close. 🙏

[@sumthinfresh]

Men will not come to the Light because their deeds will be exposed

[@TofuMystic]

1 Corinthians 2:14 - basically saying that people that dont believe because they don't have these special magical powers, so that is proof that they don't have magical powers to detect magical powers.

[@user-qq6qx5dt6o]

Homosexuality is banned and is still a sin no matter what!!! No matter if there's a new or old testament

[@sidneidornellesdasilva5840]

If the MORAL Laws of God are OVER then we can ROB, MURDER, UNSRESPECT OUR PARENTS...(It is absurd) What was finished were the cerimonial Laws like NOT TO EAT SOME FOODS. We just can fulfill The Moral Laws of God Trusting in The Blood of Jesus - The Sabath was a party and a day of resting and It is symbol that says that after Jesus' Sacrifice WE REST IN HIM if we trust.

[@sidneidornellesdasilva5840]

Jesus Bless you dear Caline.

[@lesnagy3539]

Sidnei Dornelles da Silva The Moral laws ? Morals are determined by mans experience over time... The ten commandments didn't give man a moral compass.. Man determines Morals not 10 commandments.. What about Rape? Thou shalt not Rape seems like it should have been in the mix..Thou shalt not abide Slavery? another big one... They seem more important than having false Gods,,Graven Images... Lords name in vain... Only a simple or insane mind would deem murder or robbery as a normal part of Human makeup.. Give Humans more credit than that...

[@rickbaker261]

+Les Nagy I don't think you have thought this all the way through. I can understand, especially if you are not a believer, but lets take the entire word into perspective. Jesus said that all of the law and prophets hung on two great commandments, Love God, Love Neighbor. Those are the point behind the 10 commandments too (it is easy to see that when you look at the first four as being in relation to God and the last six being in relation to neighbor. You brought up rape. The NT expands on and makes clear that something at the heart of murder is hatred in ones heart. Lust is at the heart of adultery. Given just those two things, if someone were following the 10 commandments, loving neighbor, they would not be covetous of them (the woman's body, that which the man does not have dominion over) they would not have hatred and murder in their heart (seeking to harm and possibly kill the woman) ...that is just two commands. The point is, if a person followed the 10 commands, rape isn't even an issue, because they are dealing with primary things of the heart. Having hatred, envy, lust...in your heart are things that the 10 address and those are at the heart of Rape. Slavery. Again, loving neighbor. Now, you really need to be honest here and consider the difference between chattel slavery (american south) and OT slavery provision (which was pretty much simply indentured servitude - even when prisoners of war were taken, there were still rules) - if a man is not filled with hatred of neighbor (the heart motivation of murder) envy, covetousness, theft...they would not seek to enslave a fellow man arbitrarily (a man selling himself into slavery to pay down debt is a completely different story, that was more of a hired hand than a slave the way you are implying). You mention those being more important than having false Gods...not when your false God is the one telling you to burn your children alive (molech) or sacrifice virgins to bring crops (ancient aztecs)...I am not saying that all false Gods are like that, but, all false Gods are just that...False, and believing a lie is bad for you no matter who you are, because in this case, it is a soul damning thing...which is important.

[@charlestownsend9280]

+Sidnei Dornelles da Silva the moral laws that you have given "ROB, MURDER, UNSRESPECT OUR PARENTS" are all covered under love your neibour.

[@lesnagy3539]

So to understand the Bibles meaning I need to have a degree in Old Testament Law as well as New Testament Interpretations ,, Who was the Bible actually written for? It doesn't sound like a common man has any chance of getting the true message even if it has one with this man explaining it like Attorney Case Law... I put it in the "Bullshit Baffles Brains" category

[@JGSH13]

it's actually pretty simple when you sit down and compare verses. the nt writers contrast a lot of it for you.

[@lesnagy3539]

JGSH13 Its pretty simple? Are you serious? This is Dougs Interpretation amongst 1000,s of others including your own.. Besides that you are comparing the different versions to the original scripture and somebody elses Interpretation into English as they see fit.. Your are comparing what exactly ? Whose version of the text..Its always amusing when I,m told its simple.. It tells me you have not scratched the surface of your own Volition...

[@lesnagy3539]

***** I,m not down on my understanding.. I consider Doug Wilsons Interpretation of scripture absurd... Bible thumping preacher who is more suited to the 1600,s when burning witches was in the spirit of the times... I understand that Doug is caught in a time warp and he is over 400 years out of sych... That's my understanding...

[@lesnagy3539]

***** I,m not sure what you mean when you say the "Killing of millions of innocent children" Are you talking about a systematic slaughter or the by products of war or sickness ? I think you have made a claim there that needs clarity.. You can hold whatever beliefs you wish.. You have quoted some famous names but that in no way gives validity to your claims.. Pascals wager ? What have you got to lose if your wrong? Hardly an endorsement.. Can I ask you how old you think the earth is? Can you deduce that from the bible with certainty?

[@lesnagy3539]

***** The killing of innocent children im not so sure that is a fair analogy... That's a moral dilemma. Abortion is a personal decision .. I personally don't agree with the practice but I respect somebodys right to there own choice. As far as naming famous people who were Christian still does not prove the validity of any of there beliefs..Then or now... Science is fallible.. Mistakes and corrections are a never ending cycle..The bible has no such scrutiny.. Its the word of God and although open to any interpretation it still gets regarded as a chronological order of mans existence.. Why is that? How can you look at Gods actions in the old testament and not come to the conclusion that he is a vindictive Jealous Entity ? 4 of the commandments are directly aimed at his reverence..A dictator uses words like that.. A loving God who claims he is the only one that can be worshipped.. What about the other Religions? Are you a Christian because of geographical location and parental influence at a young age or did form your views by comparison with other faiths at an age where you actually understood the verse and not just followed the trend because everyone else was of the same creed? Science may never prove causation but at least it attempts to answer questions that Christians seem to already know the answers to... I say I don't know..That's my answer.. In fact that is the only answer until we are shown otherwise...The fallback position is not that God created everything.. What proof is there of that? Scripture? Does it seem strange that God made man then Woman and whatever the tree of Knowledge temptation was they succumbed and therefore we are all born in Sin and must apologize for our entire lives for an event we had no part of ? Jesus was sent down to deliver a message and was crucified.. But it was all prophesized.. What was his sacrifice? It was all pre planned.. He walked the earth and he knew he was going back to the father upon death? Again..what was the sacrifice that we are to revere to this very day? That's the part that confuses me more than any other section of the bible... What did it prove? Nobody saw Jesus rise from the dead.It was assumed because of an empty tomb.. He appeared to the Apostles in a different form.. Why was that.. ? He showed doubting Thomas the wounds to his body.. but what did that prove? There are so many questions that there are no answers to.. or maybe I ask too many questions.. I don't understand how with no proof other than somebody elses Interpretations which the bible is you can deduce that this was the way mankind was created and that a God created it... I cant fathom the reasoning to come to that conclusion...I wish I could...

[@albertodelgado721]

You are eating out of the same tree(The tree of knowledge= Law of Moses) both will kill ! There is no holiness or righteousness through the law but through faith !

[@rockycomet4587]

Obedience follows faith

[@TofuMystic]

Good for your country and the people in it. At least they have ethics and are protecting human rights.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

Hebrew Scholars agree with in The Torah when a qualifying statement is including in a condemnation, it's only condemning where the qualifier applies. Hence "Don't boil a Kid in it's mother's Mil" doesn't meant you can't boil kids, that was about a specific Canaanite practice we know more about now thanks to the Ugarit tablets. In the Leviticus verses "As with a Woman" is a qualifying statement. Not all things gay men do would be considered like Male-Female sex to the ancients, that applied only very specifically to Intercourse, generally that was Anal.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@Gage Barbour No

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@Gage Barbour We were created Male and Female because we were created in the image of God.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@Gage Barbour In 1 Corinthians 7 Paul doesn't mention Reproduction when talking about the reasons to get married or not. Sex is an expression of Love first and foremost. That new life is the product of form of that has great symbolic value, but it's not in and of itself the purpose of Sex.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@Gage Barbour Eve was created for that Adam wouldn't be alone, Procreation is not mentioned at all in the discussion of why she was created. Thus agreeing with Paul in 1 Corinthians 6.

[@Kuudere-Kun]

@Gage Barbour And her Creation didn't involve Sex. You're playing semantic games with me to try and justify saying The Bible says something it doesn't. Every Bible passage that is even tangentially about the reason for Sex says nothing about Procreation. That Topic never even comes up in the oen Book entirely about Sex and Het-Marriage.

[@TofuMystic]

My behavior is not the issue, (and I live only in this "age") but the supposed behavior of this imaginary being that people give as the reason for their condemnation of other human beings, is. Neither is it me with the double standard. Either this god is immutable, or changes his mind on a whim. The biblical text shows that he is inconsistant, contrary to "his" claim that he is unchanging, therefor a liar, or schizophrenic. This I understand, regardless of not believing it.

[@xanderduffy6461]

Its interesting that we say homosexuality is not a choice, yet gender somehow is. Explain that one away! Thats what I would define as a double standard. Just a thought!

[@adrianelittle3759]

Have you read the Bible? Cover to cover .. or do you just choose to read what supports your views.

[@TofuMystic]

Huh?

[@TheReverendQ]

He contradicted himself using his own example. When he mentioned "The Temple, The Temple" and whether or not God cared about those externalities. He said, "No he did not." Then he went back to God caring about the externalities of male and female. It's not about the "Body Temple" it's about the ESSENCE OF LOVE and FIDELITY and ONENESS in Same-Sex Marriage. Marriage is a DIVINE and UNIVERSAL institution by God for All God's People. And when Love and Unity exists between two Souls and decide to create covenant together (Like Jonathan and David) then it is a beautiful and loving expression of Oneness of Spirit. 1 Samuel 18:1 - "And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. 2And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house. 3Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. 4And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle." This is clearly speaking of a bond of union that was between two partners for life. And then Jonathan strips himself. The focus was never on the body or the gender - but on the covenant and the relationship and the PURPOSE of this connection in order to fulfill God's purpose to make David King. So I say, Same Sex Unions do not fly in the face of Creative Law. Because Creative Law was always about the Oneness of Spirit. Not a physical body. God did not have a physical body so when it says "male and female create he them." It was not talking about penises and vaginas but about Soul Essence, the "nephesh," the personalities, the persons themselves.

[@jackjones3657]

With all respect and deference to your background and personal narrative it is imperative to point out that the soul-bond between David and Jonathan was as that of two warriors in battle who would give their lives for each other as brothers. Two people of the same sex can indeed have intense love for each other outside of a sexual relationship. It's that sexual relationship that is outside God's will.

[@1bertoncelj]

@@jackjones3657 But by that logic same sex marriage is ok because marriage is more about love and not abou sexual relationship?

[@zoeymckeown3194]

@@jackjones3657 it would be a sin against nature and creation if two warriors had intense love for each other and failed to demonstrate it in the natural way.

[@benjamintrevino325]

Speaking of Passover, that's just one example where "God" loses any moral authority. Christians also lose moral authority when they rationalize bigotry in the name of said God.

[@zoeymckeown3194]

Mr Leviticus also tells us to put to death the children who would curse their parents. Mr Douglas however would have us ignore all of Mr Levi's prohibitions except of course the one that he himself is over-sensitive to - the prohibition of homosexuality. This is all very depressing and against the spirit of Christianity. If Jesus had cared a jot about male relationships he would have forbidden them in the 10 Commandments. What followed was a kind of politics. 🤦‍♀️

[@IG-ln7zt]

Perhaps Doug doesn't use the best reasoning here. I'm certain he would also be against the other sexual sins in Leviticus 18. Incest, adultery, bestiality... The only one he might not agree with is having sex with a woman on her period. This isn't good reasoning. Men should not have sex with a woman on her period.

[@mkshffr4936]

Having heard a great deal of Pastor Doug's teaching I can assure you that he does not approve of any kind of immorality. If people were having prostitution pride parades, theft pride month, corporate deception sensitivity training, and adultery celebration story hour in the libraries you might hear more about it. Doug does however understand the differences in moral law, cerimonial law, civil law, and general equity.

[@friedricengravy6646]

……..& bigotry is still bigotry even when its sanctioned by religion. Hate is still hate. Elevating one love over another is still fearing those who r different from ourselves. Not something u might expect from an elevated being capable of creating the universe & not constrained by space & time…..🙄 Sounds more like something a man from that time would write.

[@friedricengravy6646]

sumjor No it cannot. Religion did not/does not create morality. Society passes what they deem to b right & wrong on from one generation to the next. This can vary over time, which explains why slavery (an accepted practice at the time) was not denounced in the Bible. Again, more evidence that it was not written by some mystical super power with elevated intelligence………but instead, by men who reflect in their writings this time in history. Where does society find these virtues or moralities?? Most represent exactly what an organism needs to choose to survive. Its no secret that humans figured out early on, survival is more likely in groups, communities. These philosophers over time pursued the ideas that could organize civilization. U provide absolutely no evidence that anything in the Bible is true or that its substance was guided by a higher power.

[@friedricengravy6646]

sumjor No, Im not insane just because I expect to find evidence for the explanations provided by another person. Its the church or those who wrote the books that create the Bible who r making super natural claims. Im simply waiting to see the evidence that in any other circumstance would b expected. If i wrote a book tomorrow & told u that God guided my hand would u take everything I write as the word of God?? What if I made statements that later were proven wrong by science, would u STILL believe that the true author was a super deity capable of creating the universe?? Or would u b suspicious?? Would ur suspicions demand evidence?? We both know the answer to my question. Of course u would b suspicious & demand evidence. Just because many others do not, just because the books r very old, just because power structures have been built around these stories, does not mean they require any less evidence to b held as truth.

[@TofuMystic]

The fact that we are having this conversation is evidence that I have indeed given much thought concerning this mythical being and its attributes. I bother commenting because I care about how people treat others, because I live on this planet. The biblical authors observed nothing, but wrote down their ideas regarding qualities attributed to a make believe character, and used it to excuse their murder of people (and their behaviors) they didn't like.

[@David-ky9ue]

Wrong, the Bible was written by God, the Holy Spirit through men. And, notice, not women. And, their writings all support each other even though written hundreds of years apart by different authors in different nations.

[@MichaelHervey]

Pastor Douglas , creation law & redemption law ? Do you not see your rationalization of contradictory scripture. It is ONLY through the pre-suppositions faith could you justify this stretch of logic. You are obviously not an ignorant man, and use your brain. Don't you ever , in your private moments of sanity , doubt all this twisting of scripture ? I realize you are not a young man, you have a lifetime invested in your religion and it is your only means of support. What if that were removed , you were financially and socially free to make up your own mind w/o temporal consequences ? Would you be able to embrace reality ? I wonder.

[@allisonduffy3183]

What a shame god didn't have the foresight to see how confusing his teachings would be for future generations. He should've made the bible in an electronic format then we could just download the updates.

[@lesnagy3539]

Allison Duffy Love your work Allison... The Bible would not get passed my spam filter so the updates would be pointless..

[@belect7243]

But the word is the same Yesterday, Today and Forever....that's updates for you honey.

[@grantarmbruster6591]

God's command of not eating of the tree was pretty simple.... but we humans screwed it up... so where I see plain spoken commands you see a rule that confuses your mind.

[@occamtherazor3201]

These are the people that need to be kept out of public office at all costs.

[@daltonbrasier5491]

Jokes on you, he is a libertarian. He doesn't want to rule over you. He just doesn't want you to rule over him either.

[@occamtherazor3201]

@@daltonbrasier5491 So, he subscribed to irrational magical thinking AND a failed political philosophy? All the more reason why he should never be taken seriously

[@daltonbrasier5491]

@@occamtherazor3201 I see. Well i wish you the best in life.

[@occamtherazor3201]

@@daltonbrasier5491 Yeah, sorry; But someone who thinks that a life-style between two consenting adults that doesn't hurt anyone is immoral because an old book of fables says so, does not need to have the power to make decisions that effect the lives of other people.

[@daltonbrasier5491]

@@occamtherazor3201 "doesnt hurt any one" is subjective. Just because you think it is harmless does not mean its harmless. And just because something makes someone happy doesnt mean its harmless. But i do find it odd coming from someone who actually does want to wield power to control others.

[@GodlessGubment]

You keep the parts you like and not the parts you don't. This allows you to hate selected groups while still functioning among thinking people.

[@TofuMystic]

I know it can be upsetting. Need a tissue?

[@sumthinfresh]

Alot of homosexuals in here are going to be in for a surprise one day

[@nategraham6946]

Another "Christian" who just justifies himself for condemning people.

[@zhyondavis8776]

Malachis, shut yo homophobic ass up, bitch!!

[@Borg-zt1mc]

Angels are all Men and they NEVER have sex with women.So if Angels are all Gay then God has nothing against Gays.And Christ is the same. He is also Pure and without Sin and CANNOT be Tempted into sin by woman.If you have a problem with Gays, then do not expect to go Heaven.

[@CanonPress]

Not following your comment... This is not about whether a human "has a problem" with something, it's about whether God calls that something a sin and tells us that Jesus died for it.

[@TofuMystic]

Encouraging bigotry and condemning the human rights of our fellow human beings is never helpful to moral persons. Great for bigots who want excuses for their barbaric ideas and actions!

[@David-ky9ue]

According to the sodomites, Truth is bigotry. Sorry, Sodomites, Gods word trumps satan's false teachings.

[@MB-ze3py]

David 8997675 amen 🙏🏻

[@damianwhite9058]

@@David-ky9ue TRUMPS? YES it's all a big card game isn't it

[@blanco9295]

Tofu Helper bruh, think this is bad? He claims that slavery wasn’t all that bad and even runs a cult out of Moscow Idaho. Some family friends were a part of it for a while because this dude was a freaking legend from my childhood. Terrible people, this guy even harbored a child molester

[@sayloltothetroll6806]

@@damianwhite9058 PRAISE BE TO OUR GLORIOUS MAGA LEADER!!!

[@witchkingofa]

This guy has no credibility.

[@BrokTheLoneWolf]

Señor Chemistry by a guy with a LOTR avatar.

[@keithwilson6060]

His congregation and social media following has grown exponentially in the last few years. I think he has some level of credibility. How about you?

[@peznino1]

the pain of cognitive dissonance these guys must go through each time they have to defend a stupid mythical book as relevant must be excruciating.

[@BrokTheLoneWolf]

Says the guy that lives by public school textbooks 📚 🤣😂

[@claudiaclary7927]

Doug...you can come out of the closet now.

[@keithwilson6060]

He comes out of his prayer closet every day.

[@KURTAINS77]

ALL HE DOING IS LYING!🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Dbulkss]

?

[@KURTAINS77]

@@Dbulkss WHAT'S YOUR ??

[@Dbulkss]

@@KURTAINS77 ?

[@matthewterry9413]

Huh

[@gl00merz]

Jesus man

[@TofuMystic]

12 minute discussion about the inconsistent behavior of an imaginary being.

[@jello1847]

Funny that for a being that’s not real ,you seem to be very interested 🤔 I mean you have like 5 comments here on this 12 min vid , just sayin !

[@royce1041]

Give up Buddy

[@TofuMystic]

Prophets can't exist without a god, and without proof of a god, neither actually exist. I know the "word of god", and that is why I find it morally reprehensible.