Honda Pilot Misfire - P0301 What Caused It?

[@thefreshfruitman]

I love the way you follow up with showing compression on that tool afterwards. Well done!

[@robinsonsauto]

Thank you! I’m loving that pressure tester from Hubitools

[@eldoradony]

That estimate was beyond outrageous! That Pilot needs a set of plugs and nothing more. The customer said it drives fine and his only concern is the check engine light. Plugs will do the job. Maybe by the time the problem arises again someone else will own the car.

[@robinsonsauto]

The customer opted to go this direction 👍 hopes are that the vehicle will have many more great years

[@jptrainor]

Cool. I'm going to pressure test my 2010 VCM J35 and compare. It graduated to misfiring a year ago. Put a new plug in the misfiring cylinder and installed a VCM disabler. A year and 20k km (13k miles) later it's running fine with very reasonable oil consumption.

[@frankheck2854]

First thank you for the video. The P0301 Code just happened to me and it was scanned as a misfire on the 1st cylinder. (2014 Honda Pilot EX, yes it's one of the good years) Check engine light, VTM4 and VSC were all on and I was too nervous to drive any further so I pulled in to my nearest Honda dealership. They confirmed the misfire, oil on Spark Plug. The estimate included replacement of all plugs, piston rings on cylinders 1 to 3 and clean pistons. Quote was $3800. Then of course like most dealers they recommended another 2k worth of main. work. I declined the repair but paid for the $150+ diagnosis. Since it was drivable, took it to my mechanic and we decided we would replace the spark plugs only and hope it will give me another 10-20k before the repeat of the same issue. Had Timing belt and all the works done at 100k, now at 117k, so the new plugs at 100k last for about 17k miles. For those dealing with same issue, the engine light for me blinked and the car will limp a little like you have bad gas. Hopefully this will be a temporary fix until the next headache. I did asked about the Class Action law suit in regarding this issue and the manager never call me back... not surprised.

[@aps0509]

I also have a 2014 Pilot EX-L. Ran into code P0301 for the first time at 78k miles. Had all 6 spark plugs replaced but my mechanic said the issue is that a worn out piston ring (due to the crappy variable cylinder management feature of the car) was causing engine oil to leak on a spark plug. Unfortunately, I believe the 2014 models are not included in the class action lawsuit cause Honda claimed to have "fixed" this issue by then but i'm calling bullshit. Anyway, my mechanic cleaned off the spark plug that caused a misfire and I ordered a VCM muzzler to disable the VCM feature. I've been able to drive it for another 19k miles no issues. Engine light came on this morning ,however, with a P3400 code. Pretty sure it's gonna be related this but damn, my girl only has 97k miles on it... I should be good for another 100k....

[@frankheck2854]

@@aps0509 I feel your pain, If I can get to another oil change 5-10k and just replace the NGK plugs I will be happy. The truck has been good to me, never an issue except now... Going Subaru or Toyota next, lost confidence in Honda

[@ygbodybuilder3023]

Have you heard about disabling the vcm

[@frankheck2854]

Yes, not messing with it because I am not a mechanic and my personal mechanic said I don't need it. Gone through 10k since post, spark plugs looks good. Using good fuel and throw in Tectron and Seafoam once in a while@@ygbodybuilder3023

[@adamh38]

08 and older valve adjustments and crank relearn fixes misfires 08-15 replace piston rings and relearn crank and reset pcm fixes misfires 16 and newer replace injectors

[@jasonlecreux1175]

These Hondas have a warranty extension to cover the piston ring replacement on cylinders #1 through #4. It was a very common repair in my area 5-6 years ago, but it may be outside of the time limit by now. The spool valve leaking on these are also extremely common, I believe you are able to get the gaskets separately. I’ve replaced so many alternators due to the oil leaking on top of them. But as a dealer tech I handle this the exact same way as you did. If we have no records of the plugs being changed, I’m recommending a set of plugs and giving them the info and having us check the plug out again within a year (or 15k miles, whichever comes first). That way we can assess how badly the rings are worn if they are at all.

[@robinsonsauto]

Great information! Thank you for sharing. This is a very logical approach, I replaced the spool valve seal as well. She was flatter than a pancake. I can see how this can be a common failure

[@makecodgreatagain6049]

Would this be a hard diy? I just had a new alternator put in so i would love to prevent that if possible

[@jasonlecreux1175]

@@makecodgreatagain6049 they’re not too bad to do. Definitely recommend watching KZbin videos on it first if they’re available. But if it’s not leaking I wouldn’t worry about it.

[@jasonkyleadams7577]

We did a call into Honda American to inquire and that extended warranty and piston ring replacement service stopped in 2019. Now that we are driving our Honda post-Covid, NOW this very issue has surfaced and our local Honda dealer quoted us 5K for the repair. Cheaper to replace the spark plugs every year.

[@jasonlecreux1175]

@@jasonkyleadams7577 it 100% is cheaper that way. It was never a recall, they only extended the warranty for a few more years. I started shortly after the warranty expired, but from I hear it was getting much harder to get approval on the job, you needed to be able to prove maintenance history and how much oil it’s burning. From what I’ve seen from my years of works as a tech professionally, 95% of engine failures come from not performing oil changes and/or not doing them early enough. Hondas whole maintenance minder is great, but it’s way to generous. Waiting 10k miles on an oil change, you will eventually start to burn oil or stretch a timing chain, etc. I can guarantee that. Even with synthetic oil, should never go past 5k miles.

[@elcheapo5302]

I think you covered all the bases, Will. I'd let the customer know your findings, and probably recommend all new plugs and see what happens--minimal cost and we know it needs at least one plug anyway. I'd probably let it sit overnight and see if it smokes on first start up to check the valve seals. They always say they're "getting rid of it" then bring it back in 3 years later for something else, lol. You didnt mention the mileage, but if it's that old, it's probably over 100k. If it were mine, I'd put new plugs in it and not worry about it.

[@robinsonsauto]

172k she’s been around the block a couple times. the timing belt water pump on this was completed around 130k I forgot to mention the valve is leaking Obote the alternator as well. I’m feeling the same way, I’ll fix the leak and all new plugs

[@jamesbruno5896]

Nice diag Will. Put a set of plugs in & ship it! Have the customer keep an eye on the oil consumption.

[@robinsonsauto]

She’s back off to the races. New plugs and oil service

[@justforkiks29]

There is a TSB and a known issue with the rings on these engines. The first shops diagnosis was correct. Spark plugs will clear it up temporarily, but won't fix the underlying issue.

[@JFKALLDAY]

From what I gather the main cause behind this tsb is the piston ring end gaps rotate and align causing compression loss and blow by

[@jptrainor]

1:59 VCM on the cover. New spark plugs, install a VCM disabler, and enjoy.

[@rs1971camaro]

Put an endoscope in the cylinder and look for buildup on the valves and stems.

[@robinsonsauto]

Will do, the next time it’s in for service. Sorry I seen this a little late

[@rs1971camaro]

@@robinsonsauto No problem!

[@spelunkerd]

When shopping for used vehicles, you gotta know that many vehicles will have this kind of history. A used car dealer wouldn't think twice about replacing plugs, then find a way to conceal the prior diagnosis. If he doesn't want to lie, he could erase the history by putting it into a dealer auction, and the new dealer could rightfully claim he didn't know. If the car were running fine with no CEL, I would never know, although the history of erased codes would be suspicious.

[@robinsonsauto]

Very good point! This is when most people decide to unload their vehicles. As you stated if you drove this now you wouldn’t have a clue. Aside from the memory being wiped clean. Thank you for sharing this

[@bigdaddymak1439]

The bank closest to the firewall are the cylinder deactivation cylinders. The oil rings get stuck it's a common problem. Compression will be good the oil rings just carbon up. The spool valve is also a common problem taking out the alternator.

[@robinsonsauto]

Thanks for the info! Seems like a failure in the making. I’m a attempt to buy him some time he opted for a tune up, oil service and the seal replacement! Thank you for the heads up

[@bigdaddymak1439]

@@robinsonsauto yeah worst thing is he'll have to change or clean the plug from time to time, and keep the oil topped off

[@makecodgreatagain6049]

@@bigdaddymak1439 is that an easy diy job for a weekend warrior?

[@allbarkallbitebbq]

@@makecodgreatagain6049good question

[@DuaneDonaldson]

I also believe that is atomized oil. Thanks for the case study, I noticed that you are not concerned with the very first compression measurement, the first pulse is the most important which shows bad rings, if you believe that the first pulse is too low, do it again as the first pulse may already be on a partial compression stroke robbing you of a full stroke. Also you should count strokes, I could see that 5 was good enough, the extra compression after that is not a true comparison if you just simply carry on cranking to get max reading. I like to video my gauge and do a measurement table and get actual readings stroke for stroke. Without a jumper box, I expect the compression to get weaker towards the end so take that into account, maybe start it up and recharge the battery and do it again in reverse unless you are satisfied with the current results, no worries mate.

[@johnmitchell8925]

Loosen the spark plug all the way then stick a magnet down the sparkplug hole and pull the plug out .When installing the new spark plug use a vacuum hose pushed onto the top of the plug to feed it back in and start the treading so you dont accidentally cross thread it

[@JFKALLDAY]

That quote is based off TSB 13-082 which is a class action suit against Honda that extended powertrain warranty on 2009-2013 Honda pilots to 8 years from time of purchase and unlimited mileage, initial symptoms + remedy are fouled plugs and DTC for misfire cyl 1-4 on 2009-2011 replace plugs and update PCM software if problem persists and/or returns or if 2012/2013(as these years came with updated PCM) re+re piston rings which means full engine tear down so in the other shops defense this is a known issue with these vehicles and they're just trying to cover their ass

[@JFKALLDAY]

Part Name Part Number Cyl 1-3 Cyl 1-4 Cyl. Gasket (Fr) 12251-R70-A01 1 Cyl. Gasket (Rr) 12261-R70-A01 1 1 Drain Washer 14 mm 94109-14000 1 1 EGR Pipe Gasket A 18716-R70-A01 1 1 EGR Pipe Gasket B 18719-R70-A01 1 1 Ex. Chamber Gasket 18115-R70-A01 1 2 Ex. Pipe Gasket 18212-SA7-003 2 2 Head Gasket Set 12030-R70-A00 1 Head Gasket Rr. 12050-R70-A00 1 1 In. Manifold Gasket 17146-R70-A01 1 1 In. Manifold Gasket 17105-RCJ-A01 1 1 Oil Filter 15400-PLM-A02 1 1 O-ring (7.47 mm x 3.6 mm) 91301-PLC-000 2 2 O-ring (31.2mm x4.1 mm) 91314-PH7-003 2 2 Piston Ring Set 13011-5G0-A02 3 4 Pre-chamber Gasket 18393-SDB-A00 1 1 Self-locking Nut (8 mm) 90212-RCA-A01 4 8 Self-locking Nut (10 mm) 90212-SA5-003 9 9 Spark Plug 12290-R70-A01 4 4 Strainer O-ring 15221-RYE-A01 1 1 Timing Belt Bolt 14551-RCA-A01 1 1 Water Gasket Fr. 19411-P8A-A03 1 1 Water Gasket Rr. 19412-P8A-A02 1 1

[@Mike-01234]

Wasn't VCM the reason when it shuts down the valves causes vacuum to suck oil past the rings that is why the 3 in the back are always fouling plugs.

[@johnnyautotech4722]

The Spool valve gaskets are available le on Ebay genuine Honda parts in Honda bags , but you can not get them at a Honda dealer separately , Honda wants you to my a new spool assembly only.

[@robinsonsauto]

This is great to know! Thank you for sharing. Looking it up now

[@JamesVentre]

I'd replace the plugs and install the VCMTuner to disable the cylinder deactivation.

[@robinsonsauto]

I like this recommendation. Do you know of a good method of disabling it?

[@JamesVentre]

@@robinsonsauto My reply keeps getting removed, I'm guessing it's the spam filter. I'll message you on Instagram.

[@robinsonsauto]

@@JamesVentre sorry to hear this is happening. I’ll keep an eye out

[@danman9017]

tks nice test .i would just put plug and see what it is the condition of oil get one plug .like you said

[@robinsonsauto]

I gave the customer a few options, one plug or all in addition to changing the oil. He went with a new plugs, oil service and I replaced the spool valve gasket. Fingers crossed

[@JimFixIt74]

If it was my own personal car, I’d keep replacing the plug as needed and keep an eye on the oil level regularly. No sense deep diving the inside of that engine for a little fouling every once in a while. Plug is what $8 each? Replace every 20k that’s at most $8 a year, plus maybe a 1/2-1qt of oil every 5k?

[@robinsonsauto]

Same!

[@lawnside82]

i was thinking about the pvc?? could be sucking oil into the intake and into the #1 cyl...

[@robinsonsauto]

Great thought 💭 next time it’s in for service I will inspect this

[@mikewithers299]

Same thought I had. My intake was flooded with oil when I open it. All spark plugs would be fouled if that was the case. I made a hasty judgment in another comment. Rings or valve seals could cause only 1 cylinder to have oil inside and foul out only 1 spark plug

[@markferraro5250]

Hello,WILL RELATIVE COMP ON 1 SCOPE CHANNEL and FLS type transducer on dipstick tube and trigger on any cyl. Pull PGI main relay 2 fuel pump crank look for anomaly. Horoscope in 1 compared to 4 you rock great seeing you

[@Mike-01234]

I read VCM is the issue with the back bank when it shuts down those cylinders causes oil to suck up past the rings into the combustion chamber from the vacuum created when the valves stay closed. I put a S-VCM controller to disable device on my pilot they all work by tricking the computer with the temp sensor which keeps it from turning on VCM. The S-VCM controller at least doesn't mess up the temp gauge like the cheaper resister versions. Honda was sued in a class action lawsuit over VCM as usually the lawyers made all the money rest get an extended warranty, yet Honda continued with using the same design.

[@ygbodybuilder3023]

I keep seeing this but why is this not talked about niret

[@bwagenberg]

Closeups of every shot please. Good info.

[@robinsonsauto]

Thank you for the feedback. I’ll do better 👍

[@PedroA518]

I replaced ignition coil pack in a pilot 2007 spark plugs I adjusted the valves and still misfire number one I check the compression in one was 90 and second one 130

[@dc5723]

Great diag and save Wil! Instead of a $4000 engine repair job this may just be a $60 spark plug job? I don't see any dripping oil and no, it doesn't look like the dealer removed that 10 mm coil pack bolt.

[@robinsonsauto]

Great point! I didn’t want to be the one to say it. But I’d expect to see whiteness marks. We replaced the plugs, fixed the oil leak and changed the oil

[@pmatrisotto]

Misfire code(s) indicates the motor needs a valve adjustment.

[@robinsonsauto]

Not a bad idea

[@0RayJones]

Sucks to say it but the dealership was right. The plug wasn't soaked in oil, but it has the tell tale signs of burning oil. This is a known issue. From my experience, the compression numbers are low for a Honda. If you're at the point of replacing rings, replacing the timing belt, plugs, water pump, gaskets, etc...should be part of the process. Or better yet, quote a reman long block if possible. If they are REALLY getting rid of the vehicle then just replace the one spark plug. On the side note, Yes, if you're not keeping near the dealership diag. charge then you're severely undercharging for your services. This guy is able to afford to go to the dealership and pay that price. Why can't he afford to have you as their go to mechanic for similar pay?? I've been watching your channel from almost the beginning and you're better than 90% of the techs I've seen. Your totally worth it. Check out VISION, ASTE, ELITE, etc.. on classes for dealing with pricing out your services and running a profitable automotive business. All love mane. Have a great day Will.

[@robinsonsauto]

Unfortunately your right, it’s all too common of a problem. Thank you for sharing your experience, with hopes for the costumers sake a new set of plugs will buy him some time to shop around or repair

[@xtiano99]

Thanks great content 👍

[@2005Pilot]

Great Job!! Thankyou for the video👍👍

[@robinsonsauto]

Thanks for watching!

[@johnmitchell8925]

So did you ask the customer if it ever had a tune up

[@robinsonsauto]

Yes. And no. Far as I’m aware she’s still going after this service

[@paulmayou370]

Hi Will i`d go with new plugs for now strange 190psi on 1 seams to me good engine have you put down a bore scope down but if customer is thinking og selling it just plug it cheapest option i guess unless your over charging to pay for the man cave lol

[@robinsonsauto]

Great suggestion Paul! We think alike, are you certain we are not related lol did exactly this, we replaced the plugs and changed the oil and he has chosen to monitor.

[@SoundRyteMobileDJs]

So was the problem ever fixed?

[@JCHD18CVOLim]

Change the plugs & do an oil & filter change. Tell the customer to change their oil every 3k to 4k miles. Stop watching that oil life monitor on the dash. My 2012 Pilot will go about 10k miles before the oil change indicator reaches 0% - 10% oil life left. (My estimate). I change it at 3,500 miles..My son is a Master Honda Tech. He says most of the oil use issues on Honda's with VVT engines is from going too many miles between oil & filter changes.

[@robinsonsauto]

Better safe than sorry with those oil changes. thanks for sharing

[@jimwuerl7380]

Vcm needs to be muzzled to prevent oil burning!

[@robinsonsauto]

Thank for the advice

[@martinarrieta248]

Grasias

[@robinsonsauto]

Your welcome

[@markferraro5250]

Meant boroscope

[@SamuelAckom-vy4fb]

My is jutting. Pilot 2017

[@annierenard5954]

1 new spark plug !

[@robinsonsauto]

That would probably do the trick 👍 replaced all 6 while we were there

[@killaforniak621]

My Stealership wants $6500!!!!!

[@aymenmohamed1134]

👍👍👍

[@robinsonsauto]

Thank you

[@deangailwahl8270]

Drive until it blows up after doing all the cheap fixes you can. The vehicle may last for another 100,000 plus miles.

[@robinsonsauto]

Still going strong 💪