Honest Opinion About Warmachines Mk4 After 20 years playing Warmachines, Hordes and Company of Iron

Welcome Back students. I wanted to let you all know my Opinions on the New Warmachines MK4 based on my own experience playing Warmachines and Hordes for the past 20 years. Mk 1 to Mk4 and every thing in between. Don't be afraid of change. The game has had a lot of changes and updates over the decades and each one makes it more unique and expands out game play.
If you are enjoying these please like comment and subscribe and tell your friends and fellow gamers so we can grow the class size.
Credits
Tavern Loop One by Alexander Nakarada | www.serpentsoundstudios.com Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0) creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Lore, Quotes and Art are originating from the Privateer Press are © 2001-2019 Privateer Press, Inc. All Rights Reserved. WARMACHINE ®, HORDES, and their logos are trademarks of Privateer Press, Inc. Images and trademarks used without permission. This Podcast/KZbin is unofficial and is not endorsed by Privateer Press

[@danielhoffman4741]

Being a huge fluff junkie I think Warmahordes lost a lot when PP stopped putting out the update books. Getting new units was cool but seeing the story actually progress (GW) was really cool

[@professorcaster]

I agree with you there. Models are neat but when you have a story about the unit and characters its makes the game play an even deeper experience. Hopefully we help add more to your games.

[@professorcaster]

Also with the new app they are progressing the story into MK4.

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

You're in for a treat then, because there are novels and background lore articles, biopics of warcasters, and quite a bit more in the app. It's (mostly) behind the paywall, with some things like "Forces of" descriptions of all the armies and the first chapters of one novel being outside it. It is best to read on a tablet (but not impossible on a phone by any means), and the plan is to bring the app out as a desktop app as well.

[@professorcaster]

@@KaptajnCongoboy Oh i am aware we have alot of Lore to get through and the goal is to get through it all on this channel.

[@joshuafarlow-wolgast8082]

Coming back to this after years of not playing (several issues at beginning if MKIII and life situation), collected and played Warhammer and AOS (albeit not much). I was worried and frustrated at beginning of MKIV - but overall I understand why they did it after thinking about it. While I still have a few legacy armies I can cobble together, I found myself wanting to play again, and picked up the Storm Legion box. Painting warjacks again felt good. I look forward to getting an intro game in, and hope to play some more. So far, it looks like it has been doing good, the community has been growing in my local store which helps. I just hope the momentum keeps up.

[@professorcaster]

Exactly. I believe MK4 really took note from the previous editions and set up a game that was faster with more dynamics and more flexibility for both the actual models cards and again with the command cards. Allowing the player to have to own less Warjacks/Warbeast models and just switching out Heads and Arms. Gave alot more options. I appreciate they got all Legacy models caught up into MK4 even while they were developing new models all together. And as for the Lore they got us moved forward yet again. Although about 15 years up but it give some areas to add some story lines in between as well. All in all im happy with it too.

[@aslbaron1]

I love this video for so many reason! I like the new changes to MK4!

[@professorcaster]

Thank You. We have a lot of experience with this game.

[@flameknightdragon]

yeah no. when they nuked both my factions from the lore (Protectorate, and everblight) and my main list getting made legends (Paladin themed faithful masses) i lost any reason to keep supporting this game.

[@professorcaster]

Sorry for your Loss change is never that fun. I had to change around a lot of my favorite armies lists to match up with MK4 and i do miss getting free models and warjack points too but I'm glad that Warmachine doesn't do these sweeping changes that often compared to some other tabletop wargames.

[@CmmndrCodyGames]

I remember playing MK1 in 2000 great memories of lots of metal!!! Everything was pewter back then 😅

[@professorcaster]

Oh i remember the heavy metal days. They could definetaly take a beating. I remember launching my Khadoran Jugernuaght off the table a few times and not a scratch on him after the large thudd.

[@spamerling833]

I miss two things in MKIV: unit movement Destroyed Jack on the battlefield

[@professorcaster]

Oh i definitely feel ya on the destroyed Jack markers those were great. Still got a few of them in my collection. Considering adding them back in for my shops play style. Maybe the finishing moves from the Unleashed tournament as well. The Unit movement is a little different. I would like to say less finicky much quicker but really depends on who you are playing up against.

[@spamerling833]

I just don't like the exchanged options you have now through unit movement. While I enjoy the placing stuff from a competetive perspective (you can create more gotcha! situations for the person you're playing against) I preferred the blocking options which are now restricted probably leading to a more aggressive game due small unit size.

[@professorcaster]

@@spamerling833 That makes sense a lot more moshing lane blocking was nice in previous editions but way more cumbersome and slogged down some game play speeds so I can understand it both ways.

[@willpickett5307]

@@spamerling833 there once was a list, a terrible list called "The Miserable Meat Mountain!!!"

[@theworldsays4264]

I could imagine doing that as a local steam ruler scenario rule. Warjacks and warbeasts leave corpse tokens.

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

As someone who has played since Hordes first came out, well, yeah, you're right. MkIV is still very much Warmachine and still tons of fun.

[@professorcaster]

Exactly Still a ton of fun to play just a bit more streamlined and with MK4 armies more customizable.

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

@@professorcaster People focus on the launch issues but there is a lot of stuff here done right as well. The app is starting to fill up with lore and has heavy narrative support as well. The most recent 3d prints look very good and they seem to have solved most issues with it - as competitors are struggling with Siocast, which was touted as the no-brainer choice when PP announced 3d printing, and moving to 3d print a year later.

[@professorcaster]

I do enjoy those new prints, alot of detail and character involved in them. Outside of some printing issues and their breakability compared to the old metal models of the past.

[@willpickett5307]

Mk4 is an absolute fantastic wargame. Quick and brutal combat, dynamic games full of back and forth. Played mk2 and 3, enjoyed both for what they were. Enjoying Mk4 now. That isn't to say it isn't without it's issues. Predominantly focused on the fact that while they are promising to continue to support previous models, the roll out has been shoddy at best. The new models look amazing but QC has been an issue and the old PVC models were frustrating to build but absolutely tank like once put together. The new resin while gorgeous, is brittle, ask my Hazaroth that took a 2 foot drop and who's armor ironically is a lixl bit busted now. Still, I look forward to playing my old stuff and buying and playing the new stuff. Regardless of anything else, I still Stan WMH.

[@professorcaster]

@@willpickett5307 I agree with you there. MK4 is quick and very brutal. Which makes a great game to play. Also yes the new resin models do not take damage as well as say a mk1 Khador juggernaut that could be used as a projectile weapon once assembled and take no damage doing so. But with new technologies we get a trade off sometimes. cool dynamic modeling weirdly fragile. Also speaking with PP their goal is to finish up all previous MK models by the end of the year and they aren't leaving any models out of the MK4 updates.

[@TAVAAR7]

Havent seriously played tabletop in over 5 years...but if/when I do again itll be: 7th ed Warhammer fantasy 4.5 ed 40k Mk2 Warmahordes Battletech...because thankfully its only needed minor tweaks over 40 years. Having a simplified version of a game is good for getting new people in, but for those that dont mind or even enjoy the complexity and literal brain pain headache inducing strategy there's nothing that kills a game faster than unknowns like once per game/hidden special abilities and loose rules/movement. For some people the fun isnt just from the game itself put challenging yourself within a tight set of tolerances. I wish all the best to gamers and miniature companies alike, no matter how the games play so long as they are providing value to those participating. Theres just very few that have ever had roughly the tight tolerances of chess while also backed by a rich flavor of lore. Regardless of play preferences, heres to the companies and even more so the gamers, to the fond memories made in the past and more yet to come!

[@professorcaster]

I understand you there. Simplicity isn't always the best even though chess has been around for a few hundred years. A game without the Lore Backing it does leaves a lot to be desired. We all find our niches that work for us, the lore that engages us and mechanics that make us think.

[@Haloister]

Glad to hear Legacy armies aren't gimped against Mark 4 armies. Was very worried about my Legion after learning they got irreparably shattered.

[@professorcaster]

Oh yes they are definitely playable especially with their Theme List again the new guys. And lot of fun to if you enjoy coming up with reasons why this older army is matching up with Armies 15 years after their time.

[@dungeondelversguild]

I feel like it’s changed to attract more GW fans. I bought in with the first ever Cryx pack years ago. I truly love the 5e RPG and we are still playing. My LGS dropped Warmachine for whatever reason and went all in on GW

[@professorcaster]

That does happen sometimes. I know that GW is definetly a big contender for the table top wargame realm and it would makes since if they modified it up but i am glad i dont have to carry a hundred dice to play the game. Me and Professor Web were the only players at my shop for years until some other leagues found us and expanded our player pool by quite a bit. With the new MK4 we are seeing the shake up again but when you love a game you dont have to stop playing if you dont have a large group to play with.

[@xenoserum]

How do events go with using Prime and Legacy armies? I have on and off been playing Warmachine from the start. In the UK with the way PP worked it seemed to stuff up everything so games died out. I really want to get back into it but not sure what to do. Also what about Hordes...

[@professorcaster]

We will be going over that in the future videos but in the mean time. Basically due the Infernals war alot of death happened to everyone in the Kingdoms and most ties were thrown out new allies were born. With Khador there was a big civil war and the Theme armies of MK3 were disbanded to allow more versatility in army structure. Even the Greylords Covenant were working with the Infernals and had to be cleansed out of Khador. The Infernals War aftermath with the Iron Kingdoms winning is what MK4 is. About 5 to 10 Years later id imagine. Which as a seasoned player having the theme armies pulled out and gaining that kind of Flexibility with putting armies together Pulls a lot of MK1 and MK2 vibes. Complete Freedom. But there is a lot more Lore to unload there and PP is giving us glimpses on their app in the weekly story.

[@xenoserum]

@@professorcaster hoping I can still use all my Man-o-Wars loved them its what got me into Warmachine

[@professorcaster]

@@xenoserum Well i can confirm there is still a legacy build for Man O wars sense i still play them at my shop also Shock Troopers got a bit spicier with Dual Wield granted by their attachment so 3 Weapons on a 3 man unit plus leader = 12 attacks and add that to a charge it removed heavies and units pretty quick.

[@donbryson7236]

Liked the V-blog. Do you know when protectorate of Menoth will be coming out with new models? I have not played in awhile. I got into it at the end of 2nd edition then, the group I played moved out to different games. So I am out of the loop.

[@professorcaster]

I do not, even though i have been keeping track of the Lore. It appears ever since the Protectorate had its division with the flame guard and the Exemplars and some vying for power among the hierarchy caused a unfixable fracture and eventual fall of the entire order. I believe currently a "Small group" a few thousand or so were protected and escaped to the Zu islands and New Ichtier under the Warcaster Durant (One of the few Good Menoth casters) Along with i believe the Harbinger and Kreoss. I imagine we will see them soon. Bc if the the Elves came back from the brink as a faction i imagine religious Zealots will too.

[@donbryson7236]

@@professorcaster I do hope so, as, that is the only “army” I play and it is moderately large in size. Also, it was the reason that I started playing the game. I also hope that the “appearance” stays somewhat similar. Hey, thanks for the response and insight. Have a great day.

[@professorcaster]

@@donbryson7236 Not a problem. I have a number of Armies i play in the Legacy arena up against the Newer Mk4 Armies. It is unfortunate we will not see any of the Old Armies getting any new add ons Minus some random bits i was told may come later. But i am told there are a lot of very interesting new factions coming in this year. But we can still play with our original factions as Mentioned in class i have a lot of Legacy Khadoran models that still make appearance on the battle field and i can create Lore to back their existence in the modern day more or less minus some characters we know are no more.

[@mortthepirate6318]

Random question: i loved the weird, feral elves from the old Iron kingdoms rpg book. Are they still around and did they ever get an army?

[@professorcaster]

Feral Elves? The only 2 Elves Im aware of that has Armies were the Nyss (Frost Elves that eventually become Everblighted) and the Retribution (Destroy all spellcasters Elves) In Mk4 whats left of the Retribution is still around but the last of their gods are not. The Nyss we have heard of one of their number doing some Bio Mechanical Engineering and making their own Army.

[@mortthepirate6318]

@professorcaster the only time I ever remember seeing them mentioned was WAAAAAYYY back in the original Iron Kingdoms setting book for D&D 3.5E. They lived in the wilderness between the Great cities/ nations and were followers of the anti-tech druids. Like I said, it's been a while since I've seen anything about them.

[@professorcaster]

@@mortthepirate6318 Ooh sounds like its time for a field exploration see if we can find these anti society elves. Ill see what i can find in the archives.

[@professorcaster]

So ive discussed with Proff Web. Can you describe more of your encounter with these Elves. They sound strangely similar to another wild race but we want to make sure you havent walked upon an entirely new species?

[@Stormcaller3801]

@@professorcaster This sounds suspiciously similar to the description of the Nyss in the original Lock & Load (the 3.0 character primer), prior to Everblight's influence. To grab a bit of Gavyn Kyle's words from the volume, "They live simpler lives than their southern relations, comprised of semi-nomadic clans of hunters, warriors, and shaman called 'shards.' If you're so bound to go among them, venture deep into the icy crags above Khador and seek beyond the monoliths called 'winter stones,' for you will rarely see Nyss outside of their homeland. They are hostile to all outsiders, so go with your weapons bound and a gift of some martial significance. Some do venture into the lands of man from time-to-time, but these are often sworn to never speak of their homeland upon fear of death, ' by the hand of their god, Nyssor.' Avoid them if you can for now, young friend.'

[@jamesflanagan3086]

I have three huge armies from Mk1 and Mk2. Then the game died in my area. I don't see it coming back around here. :-(

[@professorcaster]

So sorry that happened, it happened to me for a while too. But consistency of me playing with one other player started bringing back older players and some newer ones. I have 7 armies i think so i was even able to run demos with newer player as well. Also in my area even before MK4 i only knew one other player and we played for years before other players showed up. I understand your dilemma.

[@michelecastellotti9172]

I am a potential new player, i am just trying to figure out if its worth it to play it. I like the style of the... uhm... thunderstorm warrior dudes... erm... ye

[@professorcaster]

Heck ya. Especially with the new sculps with 3d printing no two unit models look the same. If your coming in now you hit a pretty peak time for models alone. And the new style is way faster to play. And you dont need as many models to play a normal game with someone.

[@hydra66]

They lost a lot of momemtum at the end of Mk2. It's going to take a lot to get the playerbase back

[@professorcaster]

Completely understandable. Been playing as mentioned since MK1 and it did have drop after MK2 but some games are like that and i see with MK4 some revitalization coming up with the new models and the continuing story line makes its a very exciting time.

[@hydra66]

@@professorcaster the community content for potential new players isn't there at present- do a youtube search for "warmachine mk4 tutorial" or "warmachine mk4 learn to play" and you don't get the taster to draw you in. 12 months post release. No vids on the PP website to that effect. This is a year after launch. That's worrying

[@hydra66]

@@professorcaster I'm worried that its been over a yr since mk4 release, and there's minimal social media re learn to play etc aimed at attracting new players. Not as much as I'd expect from PP either.

[@professorcaster]

@@hydra66 Id imagine they have a plan. i remember when they sent out press gangers to help. Considering doing a full Rules update from MK3 to MK4 on the channel in the near future. Not sure how many will be Interested in that though. So we will see.

[@Alucard291]

@@professorcaster lmao this is PP, they notoriously do NOT have a plan. They've been flying by the seat of their pants for a decade+ now and it shows.

[@raymondharnack4160]

Yeah man….. I’ve been around since mk1 as well and this game is just gone, like confrontation. There was some small hope but with their handling of their model release last year….. it’s just too little too late… sucks but it just is.

[@professorcaster]

I understand. New model Hiccups do cause some disappointment. Personally I am waiting for the Lich Elves to finally release as well but I have all the time in the world and I don't mind rules and stats changes.

[@raymondharnack4160]

@@professorcaster I’m not sure how long you have been around but it’s just a constant problem with this company, blood gorger release man o war bombadiers I could keep going and the fact they homogenized every faction and force you to play a theme list. Best of luck to you but form an old Grognard i will say that time is a precious thing and you’re wasting it on this game.

[@professorcaster]

@@raymondharnack4160 I understand your concerns but time is never wasted if you love what you do.

[@raymondharnack4160]

I miss skarre bombing people with pow 24 skarre bombs

[@professorcaster]

Fun old strats or getting Sorscha of Khador up to like 26 Defense.

[@cambeul]

Sorscha moving across the board on the first turn because she could dash three times and then charge after freezing your Caster with her feat first turn.@@professorcaster In a Multi Caster game Skarre popping her Feat on Asphyxious who would be Camping Focus creating something like a POW 28 Boosted Dmg roll. Those were the Days.

[@professorcaster]

@@cambeul Very powerful/slightly busted battle mechanics were pretty epic. I believe PP even showed how to do some of them in No Quarter Magazine at some points.

[@empirefan2023]

Warmachine was good until MK 3 arrived. With that it died.

[@professorcaster]

Change does occur with all these style games. Updates, new factions and balancing is always necessary.

[@jackmerrideww]

Completely destroyed my play group. Skorne player had his army ruined.

[@professorcaster]

@@jackmerrideww That does happen sometimes as well. We figured out some new army compositions with the new rules. Especially with the unlimited set creates some very nasty combos without the theme builds.

[@jackmerrideww]

@@professorcaster i LOVED warma/hordes. My 1st big game. I had a 5 player group with Menoth, Trollbloods, Skorne, Circle Orboros and Retribution. And we played all the time. But once it became infantry machine we wanted a change. We were so excited for mk3 and they just destroyed the game imo. Infeot like it might pick up steam with Brawl machine but it never happened.

[@professorcaster]

@@jackmerrideww I completely understand. MK3 was definitely infantry focused and a lot of it. I personally stuck with my Heavy metal Jack based armies at that time as well. Khador Jacks are hard to kill for most infantry. But i understand if it doesnt feel the same time to move on to you next hobby. Or modify it to feel the same. Like Professor Web and i modified some army building mechanics so we can play with new cards but build in some of the older ways. So we can play the theatre of war campaigns and theme battles from MK3 and before. As long as it balances is really all that matters.

[@MadMax-el2el]

Ah, let's just say I am salty about my magic h8'in elves being dumpster and replace by twilight rejects that ripped off the cryx section of hot topic then tossed their outfits in the warcaster bling box for extra flash. I really have not been thrilled about any of the new model designs, to much warcaster and not enough warmachine. The new skorne preview finally has something with a modicum of promise. As the new trolls just, umm yah no thanks. I no longer have an active warmachine community thanks to mk3's launch obliterating it. Gamers here just moved onto other games. it was just starting to recover when they announced mk4, told us our armies were "less than" taking all the wind out of everyone's sails. Everyone agreed to putting it on the back burner until we saw the new hordes offering as this was a very hordes heavy group.

[@professorcaster]

And that does happen. New changes affect everyone differently. I like my mage hunter army but hasnt been released in the new legacy armies yet. I personally didnt mind the Lich Lord elves. It was almost like they were For shadowed By Goreshade with his look. Maybe thats what they were going for. Also ive heard of some shops just playing mk3 until their armies get fully released its still playable. At my shop we dont have any PP backing so things like models and such are really left up to us. We can play with whatever model we want to represent whatever model we want as long as the base size is correct.

[@MadMax-el2el]

@@professorcaster at this point I am just waiting on either my club to give mk4 a go or for pp to put out something I want collection then i will push for it go get a second look. Besides the lull gives me time to strip and repaint my coc, i eventually started to hate the silver and blue, with white accents i did originally. after someone called it the 2r knock off job, i lookedat it went, yep that's a thing i did subconsciously. it was quick that was its only redeeming quality once it was pointed out. My entry point was skorne in mk1, I got trollbloods in a trade. Once ret comeout I got into warmachine mainly as my con and travel faction. The bag weight difference was astronomical. I also found that skorne and ret sharing a heavy reliance on understanding the fundamental rules and power attacks made faction swapping a breeze.

[@professorcaster]

@@MadMax-el2el Right same when MK4 came out it was a good time to start repainting as well. I reset my entire Khador Army in Old Gold and accented out with red and black. The easiest paint job ive ever done. Ive been playing that faction for 20 years. I also play Grymkin, Rhulic, Ret, Gators, and Crucible Guard bc i like to change up strategies and game play alot at my shop. I just cycle out the factions depending on the day. It took my club a bit before most of them hopped on board for MK4 as well but watching us play it usually gets more folks to come around. Started with 2 then 4 then goes up from there.

[@MadMax-el2el]

@@professorcaster I currently have coc, grymkin skorne and ret. With some remnants. coc, currently being repainted in nmm brass with purple glow and nmm steel gearing. grymkin (never played a game with them was a pure painting project), sitting in The display case. skorne already redone, still my original yellow and purple paint scheme there were only a few repaints and mostly it was just chips from the tusk replacement and game wear. Back in the day I had made replacement tusks that were shorter with "brass" ball caps. Most of the work was putting their actual tusks back in. If I want to play I have 5 fully magnetized bodies. The metals may as well be whole. Future repaint for retribution, part of it is done. Originally did a very basic red and black scheme with flame accents on gloss black, dark blue skin. It was quick n dirty. I am going to go back, zenith prime style using red, orange and yellow. black panel lining and then paint the gems in like an eclipsed sun, so white edges with a gloss black center. Skin this a light purple with light blue highlights and this blue ink (works more like awaxh but super pigment saturation where it rests, almost like a contrast finish) I found that shades the purple really nicely while barely staining the lt blue highlights. Looking in the display case here. What I have left of my trollbloods is not enough to even think about making a list, I just kept a few of the classic metals axer, Blitzer, bomber, mauler and all three colossals. My converted mulg aka extreme mauler with stick. Then doomy 1, 2, madrak 1, 2 and grissel 1. I picked up a replacement bearka as a painting project at my last tournament, still have not painted it. I have a random unit of bane cav still and three pin up brute thralls along with diceshade aka con goreshade 1. I have paint brush thags and girl in pot. An extreme khador destroyer and "new" behemoth from prize support it is in my tiny pile of unpainted things with bearka. I have 4 wolds and howling metal warpwolf with two plastics magnetized that I painted up for my brothers dnd group that they never picked up. Three goblins with dive helmets they were from a con, I think they were for cephalyx

[@professorcaster]

@@MadMax-el2el Nice sounds like you have alot of good projects and Mods under your domain. I appreciate the classic sculpts as well. I also appreciate the Khador Juggernaut modern sculpt is very similar to the extreme juggernaut from back in the day. Keep on painting. Its one of the best parts of this type of hobby makes the army yours.

[@matfejpatrusin4550]

Playing it for 20 yrs, still not knowing the actual name of the game…

[@professorcaster]

What do you call Warmachines/ Hordes/ Iron Kingdoms RPG/ Company of Iron?

[@matfejpatrusin4550]

@@professorcaster It’s Warmachine. Singular. Not plural. Hordes is plural.

[@professorcaster]

@@matfejpatrusin4550 Fun to know. I suppose ive always said it in the plural because the game has more than one Warjack. But language and context is always different depending on location and life experience. I appreciate your correction.

[@matfejpatrusin4550]

@@professorcaster Thanks for your response. Sorry if my tone was rude.

[@professorcaster]

@@matfejpatrusin4550 Not even an issue. this channel is a learning Channel mostly for Iron Kingdoms Lore but I do learn new things as well. I appreciate your input. It does help the channel.

[@christophersteen1873]

totally useless review

[@professorcaster]

Thank you for your comments. Always appreciate the input.

[@theworldsays4264]

I dug it. A good reflection 🪞.

[@professorcaster]

@@theworldsays4264 Thank you