Hop-A-Jet Challenger 604 Crash Naples Fla. 9 Feb 2024

[@blancolirio]

2/13 UPDATE: Dashcam Video- kzbin.info/www/bejne/jn7di4mAh7OEaposi=b5-1f-8R1OoaBEfP

[@davidmarks9354]

In the video it appears the right wing struck a highway sign, supported by 2 steel I-beams, ripping through the wing and spinning the aircraft to the right into the wall. Ironically, the sign was for the Naples Airport exit 105. I believe these pilots did the best they could RIP.

[@johnshannon9]

Watching this video, I was saddened that they were not able to align the aircraft a little more with the interstate roadway surface. They definitley touched down with lateral movement, and they appear to have just continued to the right into the highway sound wall with no way to stop that. They were so stinking close to pulling off a total miracle landing, but the fact that they were able to get the people in the cabin in a position to evacuate is amazing! RIP to those who perished.

[@czamman]

Pilots are a different breed, truly selfless not like the drivers who wouldn't clear lanes so he could land safely. The priority being saving their lives before saving their own. I know they tried to avoid hitting them. Prayers for the families

[@saramcdonalds9038]

AN UPDATE ON THE ORVILLE DAM WILL YOU PLEASE

[@jackryan9710]

I fly a 604 for work, and while a dual engine failure is not part of the normal curriculum at flight safety, we got to try it with some spare time during a lesson. That bird falls like a rock out of the sky without any thrust. Truly amazing that pilot was able to save his passengers.

[@speedbird7976]

Not sure how similar they are but I flew the CRJ 7/9 series and I recall on one event many years ago when I was an fo that the lift gates almost failed on us on the ground and when the thrust levers were moved a click indicated the engines would have shut down if they were brought into the idle stop. Luckily it was on the ground and we reported it to Mx but that design always concerned me luckily I’m on the a320 now not a concern. Maybe the captain accidentally bumped those gates and the fo brought the power to idle at the time unfortunately not enough time to restart that low to the ground

[@jiyushugi1085]

Could the pilot have pulled the throttles back past the idle detent and shut off the engines?

[@saintotherve]

I'm thinking the same... This happened to a friend of mine. The right engine got shut down on a CRJ200. Captain with his right hand on the flap lever (right arm behind the thrust levers) while the FO brings the thrust to idle. The red Fuel cut off behind the thrust levers hit the arm and the engine shuts down... Wondering if it's the same design 😢

[@speedbird7976]

@@jiyushugi1085 with the theory I am presenting yes but I can’t speak beyond that. There’s a story of a Skywest CRJ 200 (same type CL65 as the 700/900 that I flew) that had both engines shutdown due to the gates allowing the engines to move beyond the idle stop. Luckily they had altitude and were able to reignite them again.

[@jetlag410]

They did a great job for sure. We practice dual Engine flameouts every year on our 61.58 check in the 650! It does a great job deadsticking it in!

[@stevemoore12]

The pilot handled it calmy and chose probably the best spot they could have. I think every person would aspire to be that calm and collected when facing death. They flew it all the way to the ground and saved their pax because of it.

[@13699111]

I agree with your comment

[@brian5o]

It was heartbreaking hearing the ATC communications as the pilot was managing the situation knowing it was probably his last known words. He did a remarkable job though minimizing the damage the crash caused and all his passengers made it out safe which was a miracle seeing the condition of the aircraft. The pilot and copilot are heroes. It’ll be interesting to hear what exactly happened, it seemed like whatever happened happened really fast.

[@jaywhite1241]

🙏

[@garygrant9612]

i think he was trying to go to the golf course

[@Tom-zs6bb]

@user-vp6im4ub8s And how do you know that? The short answer is that you don't. How about you wait for the NTSB to do their thing?

[@AutobahnVault]

I built that sound wall, along with that section of I-75, in 2010. Panels are steel-reinforced concrete locked into massive 3'x3' concrete and steel columns, drilled 30 to 40 feet deep into solid cap rock. That wall was built to withstand virtually ANYTHING; but little did we know then that it would be tested like this. Praying for the pilots who flew this bird all the way to the end. Seemingly, their actions and calm approach saved many lives from people in that plane as well as hundreds of families who live on both sides of the Interstate. God bless these men and their families.

[@loadedfun4764]

I passed it yesterday and one section had collapsed between the two embedded I-beams. I’m not sure if it was from impact or from the heat from fire. I’m pretty sure those turbines were virtually all magnesium.

[@westerlywinds5684]

I have seen those sound and retaining walls in Europe but they had every so often emergency escape barn style sliding doors, in case of a fiery crash, people can escape to behind the wall. Also for emergency crews to have safe access. I thought it to be a great idea.

[@bertjesklotepino]

what does this have to do with the crash? I am dutch as well and i know which walls you are talking about. Actually, every soundwall in the Netherlands has emergency doors. Because if there ever is a heavy pile up, you wanna get outta there. But i fail to see what this has to do with the original comment from AutobahnVault or with the crash itself No where did Autobahn say there are no such doors in this particular sound wall. And it would not have saved the plane if there were such doors in the wall. @@westerlywinds5684

[@Hzwo.0]

​@@westerlywinds5684ive seen walls built from plastic or at least it looks like, and maybe 10cm thick. Wouldve been less of an obstacle i assume..

[@Greg-yu4ij]

@@smacktard6051 ​​⁠ it looks like the last data point of 115 knots puts the speed between stall at 92kt (105mph) and 115kt (132mph). By the time it hit the wall maybe it lost another 20mph so 80-95mph nose collides killing the pilots but the passengers were belted in and the fuselage ruptured but didn’t roll allowing friction to stop their forward motion. Absolute heroic effort by the pilots to bring the plane down on i 75 and give the passengers a chance

[@coreymackxs]

>>>Assuming the engines failed/shutdown at the same time

[@InMyBrz]

sounds plausable

[@coreymackxs]

@@InMyBrz The flight regime makes sense. Thrust to idle, call for flaps. They didnt have the airspeed to relight by windmilling. And they would have had to remember to get the ignition back on too.

[@gsppuffer]

Exactly what had to have happened to loose both before landing

[@Bubba-wx7lp]

Seems likely,that after 1,000+ mile flight,with no problem,it's related like you say,to final approach mistake.

[@sfc.m]

Airworthiness Directives; Model CL-600-2B19 (Regional Jet Series 100 & 440) Airplanes: There has been numerous reported failures of the Regional Jet engine TCGB [throttle control gearbox] P/Ns: 2100140-003, 2100140-005 & 2100140-007. Some of these failures have resulted in in-flight engine shutdowns. Post incident investigations revealed that excessive wear within the engine TCGB could alter the rigging position or cause the throttle to jam. With the rigging position altered, movement of the throttle lever towards the idle position can result in throttle moving too close to the fuel shut-off position, which potentially, can cause the engine to flame out.

[@rickrickard2788]

Crash update: A 48 year old man survived with minor injuries in that truck that was hit. EXTREMELY lucky, listening to the woman with two passengers, (kids?)- she said the planes wing clipped the sound-wall, then collected and mangled the truck under it's wing, (her words). Obviously the truck broke loose, before the plane impacted the wall, or the 48 year old, may not have had such a good out come. The gal stated the plane missed her car by inches, before catching & dragging the truck. Very scary stuff.

[@hlowrylong]

I heard that interview - the news readers were able to identify her and her rental car while interviewing her. The back of her rental suv was smashed out. There are so many fortunate people unharmed there - especially around 3:00pm on a Friday afternoon before a gorgeous weather forecast for the weekend. My husband drove there - Miami to Port Charlotte to Tampa on Thursday afternoon - other direction of course - but feeling a tad lucky today too. God Bless the pilots & their loved ones. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@hamsterama]

Glad to hear the people on the ground are all okay! Both will have quite a story to tell their insurance company!

[@pigdroppings]

There is video on YT of the truck driver, wearing a yellow shirt, walking around his smashed truck. There is also video of the truck driver in his yellow shirt being loaded into a ambulance, and probably taken to a hospital for observation.

[@webcucciolo]

The same woman who "drove around because she thought the airplane could explode"? Considering that apparently she watches too many movies, I wouldn't believe her saying "mangled the truck under its (no apostrophe necessary here, by the way) wings" until I read a factual report

[@lucashankins9425]

I have waited to hear your explanation. All great pilots stay calm, they know they can do it. That’s what makes you guys great.

[@FlyingDoctor60]

Juan, CBS Miami published a report that one of the three survivors was a crew member, 23 y/o Ms. Sydney Bosmans. That may explain how they got the exit open, and she will likely be able to shed some light on how the flight was operated for NTSB investigators. Kudos to that young FA for getting her passengers out alive!

[@stephendrziak1877]

They got out of the baggage door located on the left side of the fuselage under the left engine. Very lucky to be alive.

[@AviationJeremy]

@@stephendrziak1877 it can be accessed through the aft lav. I have never thought of it as an emergency exit, but the drop notwithstanding (the plane is sitting on it’s tail after the accident), it would be easy to slide out of as long as it wasn’t obstructed. Very quick and sharp thinking by that crew member!

[@tyronetrump1612]

@@AviationJeremy no shit... 99% of the pax have no clue that baggage door is even there. It would have been 4 souls lost if she wasnt there

[@lairdcummings9092]

@@AviationJeremy I would not have thought of it, either, but apparently Ms. Bosmans knew, thought, and acted appropriately. Bravo Zulu - she saved two lives, plus her own.

[@michaellim4165]

Prayers to that young lady. This event will traumatize her for life. Survivor guilt will eat her alive. Poor thing. 😢

[@n.elliott9122]

The families of the pilots are going through a lot right now. Who ever is related to the pilots. Those pilots did an excellent job of preventing highway casualties and putting the passengers first. I am so sorry for your loss. The pilots are heroes.

[@HighFlyer-p8x]

The young flight attendant did a great job. I googled her. Her LinkedIn resume has safety training as its key emphasis and she performed unbelievably. Sorry the flight deck guys could not escape. Again, bravo to young safety flight attendant.

[@mouselovinlady]

I agree. I hope she won’t be too badly affected by the experience.

[@JariJuslin]

Ayup. This is one of those situations where every member of the crew had to perform to get anyone out alive.

[@Palmit_]

Sydney Ann Bosmans?

[@tango57]

Yes, she was the flight cabin attendant@@Palmit_

[@Digitalgems9000]

"flight deck guys". They were the pilots. Pilots. Show some respect.

[@bhiatt53]

Retired ATCS & private pilot living in Fort Myers now. There is much more bird activity here than in the midwest. Huge flocks of Ibis and egrets. The flight crew had almost no options but did a miraculous job in putting it in the safest place possible. There were many homes on the other side of the acoustic wall and I-75 is always jammed. They saved many lives. RIP

[@wgeffon]

I was in Naples the day before the accident. While waiting to takeoff, a pilot landing on 05 reported large birds in a large flock short final. Birds are everywhere down there. *Correction for this video… 38,000 pounds is max landing weight in a 604. Not max weight of the plane as stated.

[@iahflyr4690]

I left RSW an hour before the accident headed to IAH. As we passed I-75 climbing off of RWY 24 I saw a couple of flocks of fairly large birds, so yes there is plenty of bird activity along the entire Gulf Coast of Southwest Florida. RIP pilots.

[@edwardsenesac]

Yes, lots of BIG birds there! I was on my little motorcycle on I-75 at Christmastime when a large egret got caught in the wind and hit my right handgrip when I was traveling 75 mph! I am lucky not to crash as the bird missed my front brake lever by centimeters! All of Alligator Alley and he comes down fast on me! I think the bird died because he wasn't reponsive. He was wedged rearwards between my right mirror and top of my hand glove. I ised my right hand (while pulling-in the clutch with my left hand) to yank the bird by the legs out and toss it hard away! Very large and heavy bird!

[@007bonder4]

I can back that sir .. especially in that area on the west coast of FL.

[@acfueler09]

So you are saying that both engines ingested birds which resulted in catastrophic failure?

[@tymcfadden8496]

My hat is off to the two BRAVE pilots who got this plane down and saved the lives of their passengers and people on the ground, and gave their lives to achieve this outcome. You two are hero's and your families, while grieving your loss, should be extremely proud of you.

[@sludge8506]

Like they had a choice?? 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[@t.w.7731]

They screwed up. Their fuel planning error caused this, and regardless of whether they did a great job flying it to the ground... they never would have need too if they were better pilots. They had it coming.

[@andrewmartz7076]

We don’t know is fuel exhaustion. There was a lot of fire which usually means fuel. Could have been birds or something else.

[@dougtaylor7724]

Fire is usually an indication of fuel on board.

[@tymcfadden8496]

@@t.w.7731And you know they ran out of fuel how exactly? You've already investigated and have all the answers? WTF do we need the NTSB for if we have you then?

[@creeper8647]

Three of five people walked away from that wreck. The aviation community has lost two fine pilots.

[@phatboizbackyardkustomz9006]

Didn't run out of fuel with that much fire.

[@creeper8647]

@@Tony_glorified_bus_driver You don't know squat. Those were not the transmissions of panicked, untrained pilots. They were audible evidence of trained, type rated men performing their jobs. All those years in the aviation industry never prepared me for such ignorance.

[@pmccoy8924]

@@creeper8647 those pilots saved the lives of the 3 that escaped. No doubt about it. Anyone with a clue knows, don't argue with trolls that have never been in control of a yoke.

[@brd400]

I would not call them good pilots

[@ondrejnovotny3273]

this accident can still be a result of a pilot error so hold your horses before calling them 'fine pilots' etc... let's make such statements after the investigation when we know what happened

[@joshuapatrick682]

Unfortunate. The pilot seemed like a cool Customer under pressure. Their actions in those final moments likely saved the lives of those they were charged with protecting.

[@dcbarnum]

There have been two major accidents involving corporate jets in the last week. I knew one of pilots in the Grand Junction accident last Wednesday. He was one of the finest airmen I’ve known with B757, BBJ, among his many types. One of the greatest guys you would ever want to fly with. One of the lessons is that nobody is “invincible” and pilots have to maintain their readiness. That is the best we can do. The aviation community grieves for these losses and we will be watching to learn what we can from these tragedies.

[@No_ReGretzky99]

Said the same this company needs to be investigated for sure

[@squishybear5728]

I worked as a “cabin attendant” on the 604’s. We are not called flight attendants. We do have recurrent training every year. My preference is Flight Safety. I am glad to hear the cabin attendant was able to get the pax out. The pilots most likely had her sit in the cabin in anticipation of the landing. We normally sit right behind the pilots for take off and landing, turbulence etc. RIP to the pilots. It’s sad they did not make it.

[@SenszR]

Flight attendant cabin attendant same thing 😂

[@andiscott8470]

@@SenszR In many places and operations (especially 91 and 135) they are not the same thing, and there are many more names for them than you might think. Our 91 operation we are Cabin Crew, which we train and conduct at the same level as commercial operations. Jets 19 seats an under have no legal requirement what so ever to have a trained Cabin Crew or Flight Attendant. What you see on a "private jet" an assume is CC/FA could very well be someone completely untrained in any safety related subject and only there for food/beverage service, and is listed as a passenger on flight documents, not as a crew member.

[@No_ReGretzky99]

Stay safe please and don't be afraid to turn down flights aloooot of deadly accidents are for this reason CRM

[@SenszR]

@@andiscott8470 ok I think I get you now. I thought it was just another case of the rebranded job titles you see advertised on job sites these days lol. An example I noticed this week which made me laugh was receptionists in the hotel I work at are referred to as “Guest Service Agents”.

[@Rage-td9wv]

​@@SenszRExactly!!! A turd is a turd even though you call it a golden nugget.

[@GFSwinger1693]

Kudos to the crew for bravely flying the plane to the end when they knew there was no chance to make the field. This sole action allowed some of the occupants to safely exit the craft.

[@doctorstrangelove8815]

Again, I am baffled at your teaching skills, sir. After 17 minutes I understand the fuel system of a jet I have never seen and respect pilots I sadly never will meet. I wish my university had this quality in their teaching staff.

[@WarrenatCLS]

@blancolirio I’m based at KAPF. Was 1 flight attendant, 2 pax. FA operated the rear lav baggage emergency door, she got the passengers out. Shadow5 is the Collier County Sheriff Department UH-1 helicopter. Occupants of white pickup truck were struck by the right wing, survived. Another woman’s car was struck, she also survived Plane flew from OSU to Naples, flew the PIKKR7 arrival, and was given the “downwind” approach around to rwy 23. Completely normal (as far as no audio) cruise, arrival and approach until lost engines

[@TheTurbinator]

If interested, I can record a video of what the rear baggage/closet emergency exit access looks like, from inside the cabin. As I have access to Challenger 600s.

[@WarrenatCLS]

@@TheTurbinator sure. I think I would be helpful for people to know. Much respect to the FA on getting the passengers out safely. Passengers getting to and through that exit is not straightforward

[@JR-jw3px]

Ive certified plenty of 604's. Getting past the lav door, whatever was in the bag compt, locating, turning the bag door handle, lifting the door (possibly in the dark / smoke) is nothing less than heroic. I focus on safety equipment, ensure the bag door operates smoothly. Crash airworthiness @@TheTurbinator

[@travispatenaude9139]

I'm not a pilot and only fly occasionally for work or leisure. Watching this channel has deepened my appreciation for pilots, their extensive training, and the meticulous procedures they adhere to. While I'm aware that a minority may not always follow these protocols, the channel has significantly heightened my understanding of them. This knowledge enhances my confidence in the safety of commercial aviation, reassuring me of my well-being during flights. It has convinced me that, should an incident occur, the established safety procedures significantly increase my chances of survival, whether by walking or crawling away from it. Contrary to the common fear induced by watching airplane accident videos, this channel has enlightened me on the rigorous efforts made towards passenger safety, showcasing the expertise of pilots, air traffic controllers, and cabin crew. Thank you for excellently demystifying aviation safety for those of us with limited knowledge about flying.

[@skyvenrazgriz8226]

Damn they were so close to making it. Without the wingtip strike this could have been a tale for the pilots to tell and the comunity to learn from. RIP crew

[@432b86ed]

That is heartbreaking. Almost made it down. RIP crew. You did all you could.

[@HiggsBJ]

Thanks for the great info as always Juan. I always enjoy your air plane accident coverage and of course the Orville updates. ✌️

[@donlindell1994]

Juan is the Walter Cronkite of aviation news

[@DC9Douglas]

I was thinking the Joe Kenda of aviation, but Walter Cronkite is a better fit lol

[@trunkmonkey9417]

"That's the way it is..."

[@SteamCrane]

No, Juan is much better than Walter. Cronkite had an agenda, and slanted the news before there was an internet to fact check him.

[@buddyrich3875]

Paul Harvey, the rest of the story

[@MarkTurner-vs7uc]

It turns out that Cronkite was getting paid by foreign nations to push his anti american agenda. He was a communist asset , a plant. And he's proud of it. He fooled everyone for years.

[@fknsl1]

You saved the Best for last. Nice touch. Flight crew did Amazing work to minimize a bad ending. My heart goes out to their families and the Hop A Jet Organization.

[@Skyhawk518TA]

I currently fly a Challenger 604. Although the baggage compartment door is not listed as an emergency exit (the RH Over-wing exit is a Class III exit and the MED is a Class I exit), I always brief the flight attendants and passengers that the baggage compartment door is "an available escape" from the aircraft. Normal sill height above the ground is a little over 5 feet and it is directly beneath the #1 engine but it IS a way out of the aircraft and the only one available to exit that aircraft it appears. Good job by the flight attendant to realize that and know how to open the door. They were very lucky to escape that aircraft. The baggage compartment door is "plug" door and would be very difficult to open if the aircraft were pressurized - which it would not be in this case. Obviously, I'm very interested to know the cause of this accident. Although I wouldn't rule out bird ingestion as the cause, the CF34-3B engine is fairly tolerant of bird ingestion - due to its very small core as compared to the fan. Pilots, you did a good job of saving your passengers and avoiding casualties on the ground. May you rest in peace.

[@KalikoTrapp]

@Skyhawk518TA Thank you for that valuable information. And I agree totally that the flight attendant deserves huge credit: she saved those passengers' lives.

[@m783w]

When it is our turn to leave this world, we can only hope we are as calm, collected and focused as these two Chads up front. My hat is off to you both, may you keep the blue side up for eternity RIP.

[@keno7800]

Well said.

[@ruppaeb]

601 pilot here… Lots of people were saying fuel mismanagement but as you pointed out the fuel system, while fairly complex, is designed to minimize workload. Near zero input except for ensuring tanks are balanced. As far as starvation, that fire was pretty big for empty tanks but I have no way to know. Birds?? It IS Florida. The engines and empennage are largely in tact, hopefully the recorders in the tail are in good condition and thankfully they’ll have both engines to inspect. Rough couple days for biz jets after this and the Hawker in CO. The two types I’m current on too…

[@donallan6396]

Looks like the engines survived the event , leaving a valuable clue for the investigation.

[@SPUDWRENCH]

My thoughts exactly regarding the suspicion of fuel on hand and the extent of fire/ explosion at impact. But both engines? Time will tell.

[@glennjaffas6242]

There are two comments further up, one regarding the throttle quadrant design and another regarding an AD. Both worth your time to read since you are flying these airplanes.

[@tc573]

Also hearing they declined Prist fuel additive. Maybe fuel gelling

[@eric_in_florida]

The CCSO said there are two confirmed fatalities. The sheriff’s office issued an update Saturday identifying the decedents as Edward Daniel Murphy, 50, of Oakland Park; and second in command Ian Frederick Hofmann, 65, of Pompano Beach.

[@freshfritz4649]

I hope all of their kin have been notified.

[@PKerusso]

@@freshfritz4649they don’t release names UNTIL kin has been notified.

[@eric_in_florida]

@@freshfritz4649 They don't release that until they have.

[@hlowrylong]

This KZbin fellow is so good. I always learn from his discussions.

[@patchmack4469]

you can pick up lot from Juan, he's a great pilot with so much experience in his own aircraft, airlines and past fire tankers

[@trunkmonkey9417]

@@patchmack4469 And USAF T-37 as a Student and Instructor, then C-141 and C-130, before going to the airlines and rated on several type aircraft.

[@martharetallick204]

Excellent aviation education right here.

[@patchmack4469]

@@martharetallick204 i'm no real aviator, sure i have flown and done a fair bit, i am more an enthusiast and aviation follower, seen many years worth of stuff over the years and you pick up much info, i often find myself when i see an accident guessing what might have occurred, and through information from folk like Juan i find myself guessing correctly quite often, surprises me sometimes, so much common sense and you wonder why accidents happen - oh yes that human factor

[@patchmack4469]

@@trunkmonkey9417 yep sorry, i know some of the history but forget it - its a wonderful thing to have such an expert, enthusiast as Juan, he deserves much credit for what he does, if only more pilots would follow his lead as it were i often think when pilots qualify and authorities certify folk etc, they should pass on details of people to closely follow such as Juan, an example to many and certainly no fool

[@IrishDave]

Hearing the pilots voice on their last radio call will always hurt my soul. God bless their families and may they rest in peace.

[@MADHIKER777]

I did not pay much attention to the newscast that aired right after the incident, knowing that Juan would soon explain all the details of the situation to us. Thanks Juan!

[@paulsherman51]

As noted before, JB needs nomination for either a Pulitzer or a Murrow, or both.

[@rogerfroud300]

It's truly remarkable that anyone could escape such an accident.

[@mariemccann5895]

How's that?

[@sarahgupton2552]

The three passengers can be seen running away from the plane. Looks like most of the initial damage and fire was at the nose.

[@MrCarGuy]

​@CCherriosful What? Almost everything in modern society is an evolutionary mismatch for humans.

[@randallmarsh1187]

Especially considering it looks like the passengers were worried about their luggage as you can see them running away from the burning jet carrying their luggage!

[@ItsBugsy]

My theory, they escaped through the rear left luggage door. Interior accessible via the rear lav.

[@07blackdog]

Very chilling, listening to the pilots voice just seconds before impact.

[@hlowrylong]

CCSO says 50-year-old Edward Daniel Murphy of Oakland Park, Florida was the pilot and Ian Hofmann, 65, of Pompano Beach, Florida, was the co-pilot. They reported a dual engine failure moments before crashing on the highway. Three people survived: crew member Sydney Ann Bosmans, 23, of Jupiter, Florida along with the two passengers, 35-year-old Aaron Baker and 23-year-old Audra Green, both of Columbus, Ohio. They were treated for their injuries at a local hospital.

[@thanosk488]

Very informative, thank you

[@frankprio4490]

There is an AD on the regional jet version of the CL-600 regarding worn Throttle gear boxes, that had resulted in engine shutdowns. Pulling the throttles hard back to flite idle to slow down, and having them go past the mechanical locks into shutdown?

[@Exiles800]

2 hours from Ohio means they were truckin...The short pattern approach indicates they pulled that idle jerk move to lose speed for base to final and cut their own engines...That explains why the pilot is so composed because he knows exactly what happened...

[@jeffwiggins8923]

yep@@Exiles800

[@Testrun48]

On the CF34? Never heard if it.... all ADs were complied with on this aircraft.

[@johnbunker5102]

A sad day when anyone loses their life. Kudos to the flight attendant. Sincere condolences to the families of the flight crew. They acted with professionalism right to the tragic end.

[@ronduncan9527]

Saw this on the news last night and knew you’d be giving us a update today! Thanks!!!

[@boywaja]

Juan will never see this. But I just felt like saying you are a treasure. I learn so much. We are lucky to have your videos

[@blancolirio]

Thanks Waja!

[@sgtbilkothe3rd]

He saw it.

[@brianwaters7489]

Another Challenger - a 601-3A, N88HA - had a dual-engine flameout on March 20, 1994 into Basset NE due to fuel starvation (water contamination). It was up on screen with the other historical references and I was sure Juan was going to mention it. He did a great job of the fuel breakdown and as usual, informative resume of the events.

[@jf1558]

Have over 30 years working on challengers. This was the first thing that came to mind when I heard dual engine failure . The crew walked away from that one. Unfortunately, this crew was not as fortunate. Im very familiar with the Challenger fuel system, and Juan did a very good job explaining it. I actually worked on this Challenger back in 2010.

[@bubbaoriley7864]

In that situation the crew had several minutes of indications that there was a fuel problem and a few minutes between the two engine failures as you’d expect.

[@brianwaters7489]

@@bubbaoriley7864 Yes, correct, not the same situation at all. The point was: Juan mentioned dual flame-outs are rare and indeed they are but coincidentally, there was another Challenger with N88HA. And to add to your good point, the indications they did receive on N88HA were a bit ambiguous as when the fuel started to wax with the water freezing, the fuel filter light came on at the specified 17-19 psid and then extinguished at around 22-27 psid when it bypassed leading the crew to believe the issue was no longer there.

[@brianwaters7489]

@@jf1558 Funny you say that, I started instructing on the Challenger almost 20 years ago it was still talked about and was a key discussion in my fuel/powerplant lesson. Was the same one I thought of as well and sadly, yes this 604 crew were not as lucky, Very interesting you worked on that very 604, aviation is a small world.

[@bubbaoriley7864]

@@brianwaters7489 I remember it being discussed for years in recurrent training. What I got out of it is any fuel issue other than tail tank you don't understand, get on the ground. A single fuel bypass light seems minor going by the checklist, but can quickly spiral out of control.

[@bishopdredd5349]

Appreciate the black screen at the end to give us time to pay respect to the pilots

[@tommycaputo9267]

Thank you Juan for putting together all these details so fast. I was flying back from the Keys while this was happening. Very unfortunate and rare for this to happen. Whens the NTSB going to pay you as a consultant and expedite their investigations!? Thank you for the due diligence

[@dks13827]

the moped girl ?

[@MichaelSteeves]

Retirement plan for Juan?

[@PCBill0622]

Thanks for the report Juan. As a local it was disgusting how local media was so wrong on so many counts: “No one survived”; plane was trying make it by “landing the wrong way” at Naples-the “normal “ approach is to come in from the Gulf”; another reported deaths on the ground on well. Ugg!

[@k.l.hughes3118]

Media is wrong on about everything. They are not experts on anything.... just click bate headline grabbers

[@idunnoanymore2870]

No one fact checks anymore before they put the news! a it’s all hearsay, winging it (pardon the pun), or reading a woke narrative given to them. THEY ARE NOT JOURNALISTS!!!! Just a wooden puppet with WEF ventriloquist hands up their back talking for them!

[@MoMoMyPup10]

Since the prevailing wind is usually out of the east, the typical approach is from the Gulf, at both Naples and RSW. The fact that he was flying out over the Gulf and then came inland to turn back into the westerly wind, probably resulted in them not being able to make the runway.

[@PCBill0622]

Nope - I don't accept that explanation. Surface winds in SW Florida have been southerly for several days and currently RSW is landing/departing runway 24 and Naples runway 23. @@MoMoMyPup10

[@davidmotter5140]

The mediaNEVER gets anything about aviation correct

[@williamfitz5413]

Juan, I appreciate your initial dual engine failure assumption in mentioning right up front if they took on fuel at OSU, but it's pretty well obvious from the size and locations of fire that there was fuel on board. Even the wingtip is on fire and fuel pooled on the ground is on fire. Yes, it's going to be something more complicated than just running out of fuel, as you're detailing later in the video.

[@stewartsmith1947]

Part of my flight training was in Fl. Buzzards and Cranes everywhere.

[@MrSGL21]

this crash was local to me. i live 40 miles up the interstate from it. i was thinking, both engines die on approach either the pilots really screwed up something, or it was a bird strike like that plane on hudson years ago.

[@johnnytactical3054]

Yup tons of buzzards everywhere

[@topco130]

Turkey vulture population explodes in SW Florida this time of year. They winter here and it is common to see thousands spiraling in the sky at once. They fly in columns that go up several thousands of feet. They especially love the updraft thermo activity that a large piece of concrete (I-75) can produce as it heats up in the afternoon. Crash happened at 1515L time. The hottest time of the day. I hope this wasn't a factor.@@johnnytactical3054

[@CAPFlyer]

Such a sad and scary event. Kudos to the crew (all 3) getting the passengers out safe. That matters the most. They flew it all the way to the scene of the accident and then kept flying until they couldn't do anything else for anyone. I work with one of the HPJ managers who does most of the trips for this jet and haven't heard back from him yet, but having personally been through an accident as the "guy in the office", I have an idea what he's going through right now. People forget about the people behind the plane sometimes and how much it can affect them as well. They didn't just loose co-workers, they likely lost friends. I've been praying for everyone involved since the accident was reported. It's a tough time for a lot of people.

[@carlmontney7916]

Unbelievable that anyone was able to survive that crash. RIP to the pilots who perished and condolences to their families.

[@Van_Liberty]

I sure love how you assess each crash with so many details and commentary. Great work. My jaw dropped when you mention a possibility of shutting off the wrong engine...

[@publicmail2]

When I fly into Naples it's amazing to see the amount of corporate jets. It's one of the highest or the highest income community in FL, many people hire jets to fly everywhere for business or pleasure.

[@BlackMan614]

35 year old guy with a 23 year old young lady... some folks are just living right - until the plane lands on I-75.

[@imafeltersnatch7634]

Naples is known as the city with the most available money. I'm local to Naples

[@tyronetrump1612]

remember few years back the only thing Naples was known for is being " gods waiting room" for all the old people. Thanks to all the developers that changed and it's turning into a fort lauderdale

[@imafeltersnatch7634]

@tyronetrump1612 Gordon Drive in Port Royal just listed a property for $265 million. About 5 years ago there was a $123 million build cost AFTER tearing down two other estate properties

[@danielstadden1149]

​@@imafeltersnatch7634We're going back to feudalism

[@bryanspink8042]

Great video as usual, Juan. I've fueled aircraft for nearly 30 years and whenever I hear of a dual flameout, I always question fuel contamination or starvation. Just a thought here, but the last FBO they departed from sells both preblended and negative FSII Jet fuel. I'm NOT pointing fingers but I would be interested if DEF contamination could be an issue here. I've seen a few instances of it and we don't sell negative FSII product because of this. I've had to do a few fuel investigations due to crashes and it's not a pleasant experience to say the least. The crew did a great job getting their aircraft down and minimizing the loss of life.

[@dibqip]

Incredibly tough news that the pilots did such an amazing job to save their passengers and didn’t get to walk away with them.

[@CDM1957]

Very good Video Juan. I love the detail you provide as well as the range of possibilities for these accidents. I think your military experience, being a current commercial line pilot, a very active GA pilot, combined with your A&P credentials set your work apart from all other you tube channels. I think you are the best one out there. No one else seems to bring this much to the table.

[@julianhuertas8909]

The real deal, thanks juan for the info and knowledge

[@sludge8506]

Juan basically was reading off of publicly available documents.

[@maxborgen5131]

Thanks!

[@babygrrlpc5057]

Been waiting on you to cover this so we could know what happened. Thanks, Juan. So sad. Rest in eternal peace, pilots 💔

[@OMGWTFLOLSMH]

We don't know what happened, other than they lost dual engine power and had to crash land. Birds, fuel, coincidental engine failure?

[@sludge8506]

Juan basically was reading off of publicly available documents.

[@jefff6167]

Accident happened yesterday. You didn’t wait long.

[@Mikinct]

The difficult part is how to determine any potential "fuel contaminated" once all fuel is burned in fire 🔥.

[@Raiders33]

@@sludge8506 ...and Juan translates the highly aviation-related technical information into non-aviation non-technical descriptions for a non-pilot non-technical audience while keeping the technical, pilot audience interested. VERY hard to do, and he does it very well.

[@ellend7680]

So many people to think of, those involved, families and friends. Thank you to the man who ran to the accident to help, and certainly I hope ATC know they did what they could and talks to someone. Juan does such a good job, I wish he didn't get so much practice.

[@TurningFinalOfficial]

Thank you for all you do for our beloved aviation community Juan. This story is tragic but how admirable of the pilots to calmly aviate, navigate, THEN communicate in order to put themselves in the best situation possible in the shortest amount of time to best protect their passengers and innocent folks on the ground. R.I.P to the pilots.

[@BigEightiesNewWave]

An excellent eye witness was interviewed, he said he put it down straight and wheels had touched down, but hitting the truck spun it into the wall. He called in AGAIN live on the news because they WRONGLY assumed it went straight into the wall, it DID NOT. Also, a woman driving her rental SUV, daughter saw it coming at them, mom veered off freeway, and it only punched a hole in the rear window. They were safe, and she was talking to the news LIVE on her phone. I believe the truck driver was OK too. The wing hit the truck, and THEN, the wall. As per the witness.

[@sailorkaren]

Her daughter saw the plane approaching in the rear view mirror and called out to her mom, "Brace for impact!"

[@justingarrett4125]

It's a tough situation landing decent size jet, at probably 120 kts/138mph (guessing landing speed for this jet) with cars on the freeway doing half that speed. Unless the road is clear it will be hard to thread the needle with traffic.

[@RobertJl9516]

Thank you Juan, your presentations are always clear and detailed with the facts we need to know to understand these tragic crashes. With you presented knowledge you make It safer for all of us.

[@andiscott8470]

Great to see the Cabin Crew/Flight Attendant showing one of the real reasons we are carried onboard these types of aircraft. That jet had absolutely zero requirement to have that lady onboard, but the operator sees the value in what we as a part of the crew onboard are capable of doing. Also, her initiative and fast thinking also contributed to the survival of the two passengers and herself. The only training I have ever received for the use of the rear baggage door as any sort of emergency exit was directly from GAC on delivery of our G650. I don't know any training provider who trains this as a viable exit route, but she used it and good for her. She is going to be forever effected by this also, and especially as she wasn't able to save her two colleagues and aviation family members from the front. That is going to absolutely break her. Sad to see two pilots who were obviously well known and respected, lost in such a terrible incident.

[@DougBow96]

Thanks Juan for the details. Tough situation.

[@soccergoalkeepertech]

Pilots did an awesome job to get down as safe as possible saving their passengers ! The ultimate sacrifice. RIP

[@richardsmith4187]

Juan I'm in Tampa and per news stations here it was advised that one or two vehicles were struck. It was reported that the drivers were transported to medical care with minor injuries. Sad incident and glad the passengers did escape. RIP to the flight crew.

[@globalpilot76]

Very well presented. Thank you and Godspeed to the crew. They chose carefully and almost made it.

[@wjcandee]

Two passengers plus a flight attendant were the survivors, according to the Sheriff's office. The two fatalities were the captain, age 50 and the FO age 65. Captain was typed in the Lear and the Challenger only, ATP of course. Also a private helicopter pilot. FO age 65. Typed in a320, a330, 737, 747, 757, 767, dc9, Challenger and Lear. Family says he was Piedmont then us airways. I'm assuming that means he was subsequently American Airlines, unless he took early retirement. The whole thing is sad as hell.

[@drpepperairlines1594]

Man the sinking feeling for the flexjet crew. When they knew that the plane they’re waiting for to land, never landed, and took their spot for departure…

[@ronmoore5827]

Very sad for the pilots, glad all the passengers got out. Once again a factual description of events, thanks Juan,

[@sludge8506]

Juan basically was reading off of publicly available documents.

[@JakeStz]

​@@AngelOfTheAbyss66 Everything okay buddy?

[@linwoodkent1246]

@@JakeStz No, everything is not ok with "gamers" I know, I live with one!

[@RichardLordRix]

​@@sludge8506JB was interpreting the information from publicly available documents. That is very different from just reading. By interpreting this information he is able to explain what the information means to follow who are not necessarily flight trained, and from some of the comments for a few who actually do know their way around a cockpit too. So yes, he's reading those publicly available days sources, but it's what he does with that information that few other people are capable of.

[@sludge8506]

@@RichardLordRix Maybe juan should just have an “aviation 101” account for beginners. My statement was factually true.

[@RichardFreeberg]

I really appreciate these excellent presentations. I've learned a great deal about how modern aircraft operate and the vital role of well trained pilots and crew. Thanks for providing these to the public.

[@albertjones1386]

I was listening to a report from WINK TV. this morning. They were interviewing a woman whose rented car was hit by the some part of the wing and that caused the car to receive a smash rear window. . The TV station had a live feed from perhaps their helicopter and were talking to her by phone. The driver was able to control the car and she was able to bring the car to a stop in the break down lane just ahead of the plane. No one in the car was injured.

[@Visaliaipa]

Saw the new video released showing the aircraft landing. Looks as though had they not hit the wall they would have made it. Your analysis of hitting mg the wall and spinning the aircraft 180° was spot on.

[@fomfom9779]

I'm fairly certain the two people in the vehicle are OK. There is a YT video from a local news helicopter and the station's news desk talking to the driver via a cell phone. The driver was standing in the highway median, a few feet from her damaged vehicle.

[@slaveofjesus3878]

Looks a man was in the white truck (smashed) was taken away by medical personnel. watch?v=-YBQAQ1Wmyc (2:00 mark)

[@jdmather5755]

That was a second car with minor damage - not the smashed pickup truck.

[@Zack-ew7mo]

Pickup driver had minor injuries and was transported to

[@tymcfadden8496]

The plane hit two vehicles, a white pickup truck, which was heavily damaged, and the Nissan SUV, which had three people in it, that was not damaged very badly. The person you saw was from the Nissan, the truck owner was injured, but not severely.

[@hlowrylong]

@@tymcfadden8496Have you seen the photo of the pickup?? It’s crazy!!! Evidently his injuries are minor. The Armada has the back window punched out but they are all fine. I still can’t believe the pickup - I even wondered if it was a fake picture. Wow.

[@toddholzwarth1454]

Strange one in Colorado. Hawker 900 takes off from Grand Junction and crashes 10 minutes later - NW of GJ near Utah state line. Have not heard anything since.

[@tomlee7956]

Have 1000 flight hours on the CL601-3A/3R as a pilot and FSI instructor in the 1990s. Extremely reliable aircraft with a lot of redundant systems. The fuel system very complex but automatic, never had to do much. Plane drops like a rock when you take the power to idle, not much gliding here. Captain, B757

[@murdockdacoon2055]

knowing this, I wonder if they weighed the decision to line her up straight down the road when they knew they were not gonna make it......and possibly runover a shit ton of passenger cars....or skew it and let it slam the wall and knowing that would probably end them.....decided to hit the wall. Surely they could have hit that straight stretch of road better than that. Look like they tried to kick rudder at the last min from some landing footage I saw on dash cams.

[@markhorton3994]

In San Diego there is a main route called Balboa Avenue. It runs through Kearny Mesa and Clairemont to Pacific Beach. It happens to be at right angles to the runway of Montgomery field which was the airport where Charles Lindbergh's Spirit of Saint Louis was tested. For many years there was heavy traffic of touch and go pilot practice. At least three times that I am sure of small planes suffered power failure on take off. Two managed to reach Balboa and land safety. They each landed just past a red light and had two empty lanes, plus the sidewalk and center divide for wing clearance, to stop in. Unfortunately the third crashed in my family's business's accountant's backyard. She retired with PTSD.

[@railroad9000]

Been waiting for your report. Great job as usual!

[@darksidemachining]

Great video. WINK News obtained dashcam footage from a trucker heading southbound on the I-75 in the number two lane. The footage showed the Hopajet entering the upper left corner of the view screen and showed it descending in a southwest direction. The plane struck flat in a southwest direction on the roadway between all the southbound vehicular traffic and with both wings spanning all three lanes. It slid in a southwest direction on the pavement and then across the shoulder and impacted the west side (north/south running) sound barrier wall of I-75. The video showed the plane’s nose and right wingtip impacting the wall first at a 45 degree angle.

[@Exiles800]

It is an incredible video of them almost pulling off a crash landing on a highway with traffic...Their right wing slung them in to fatal impact with the concrete barrier wall...

[@billmadison2032]

I know that area. at 3:15 in the afternoon it's a big fucking parking lot. Those Pilots did a tremendous job to save lives

[@alexlowe2054]

6:50 This picture makes so much more sense knowing that the plane spun around 180 degrees. Before your video, I couldn't make sense of the burned parts of the barrier that appeared to be in front of the plane, and the fact that the pilot chose to land into oncoming traffic instead of landing in the direction of travel. But knowing the plane wing struck the barrier and spun explains everything. I agree with your assessment that fuel starvation seems unlikely, considering how much the plane burned. Excellent video covering the initial accident report.

[@markmatuszak4527]

Clearly the aircraft had plenty of fuel on board with the raging fire and maybe 100 yards of flaming grass along the wall. Makes it an even more bizarre situation.

[@TheBeingReal]

It looks like the truck is what caught fire.

[@ThePelon239]

I can guarantee it was the plane that caught on fire I seen the aftermath. The truck was smashed from the rear not sure if those passengers are okay at the moment, I do hope so.

[@noshurviverse8388]

Not that odd if you consider that it would need to have at least 45 minutes of additional fuel, plus likely an alternate.

[@Jeppelelle]

Hard to to tell how much fuel was left, even the fuel that is left where the pumps can not suck it up is a quite meaningful amount in terms of fire potential, then there is alot of fumes, burnable material inside the airplane etc etc etc, i am not saying it was fuel starvation (no one knows yet?) just that there still could be a fairly substantial fire even after a fuel starvation event, so "plenty of fuel" is kinda misleading

[@Bubba-wx7lp]

No

[@nancychace8619]

Sorry for the loss - condolences. Glad the passengers got out.

[@dcviper985]

I was actually sitting at a traffic light at the SW corner of the KOSU Airport property when I saw a challenger blast off right around when she departed.

[@petertarantelli]

I can’t imagine having a dual engine flameout so close to the ground.

[@drdorann]

Been following your channel and reside in Naples. Almost drove by when it happened but I missed the freeway entrance. Went past the scene today going north and it's a major crash investigation with the south bound lanes still closed. Feel so sad for the pilots.

[@rafaelmarin8005]

Thanks Juan . Great report as always do.

[@jefff6167]

Thank you Captain Brown for another informative video. 👍🇺🇸

[@iancurnow9060]

Thanks for this very well made video. Videos like this make the news channels obsolete.

[@stevenburris969]

The calm demeanor of the crew on their radio transmissions was admirable.

[@jimdavis1939]

Those two pilots: Cool and professional to the very end, flew it all the way to the crash site and saved their pax and the cabin attendant. RIP brothers.

[@324bear]

Mr. Brown, it looks like you got caught up on your sleep! Thank YOU for this update!

[@carpetbomberz]

9:42 Tenerife-style,..yup. You said it. Feels also now like the Japanese Coast Guard incident at Haneda airport last month.

[@gcrauwels941]

Prayers for the pilots. Hopefully the NTSB will find a clear reason.

[@rezamostafid8810]

I listened to the ATC playback and agree, very calm and collected response in the face of a very serious situation. Thank you ( Capt.? ) for a very factual breakdown of whats known so far...I hope they can get to the bottom of this to avoid it from happening to others. Brave crew ... very sad to see the final picture towards the end of this clip.😟

[@behrens97]

It looks like they escaped through the aft baggage door. The e--exit and main entry door areas were engulfed in flames. Good thing you can access the baggage compartment from the cabin. Some planes don't have that feature. To be honest as an A&P I find the fuel systems on 600 series Challenger a bit confusing. It's not my favorite aircraft to maintain

[@billharm6006]

You are my "go-to" for anything aviation. I've learned a lot from you as you explain systems and operations. I appreciate the learning. I look forward to your follow up when a cause is discovered. I have seen incorrect equipment shutdown in response to a casualty, but my gut says, "no" in this case (no supportable reason for that opinion). An "unalarmed" low/no fuel seems strange to me, yet what else takes out both engines simultaneously? This enquiring mind wants to know. Minor Correction: The ejector pumps do not operate on the Bernoulli principle. Such pumps are actually a momentum transfer device. The "oops" does not detract from your excellent presentation. I only mention it because you seem to make a great effort to be factual. The "Bernoulli" error is easy to make; it is suggested by a casual look at the structure. The details show otherwise. I made that same mistaken assumption many years ago when I attempted to design my first such pump. It could not get out of its own way. Wrong equations. I learned from my mistake, and in my engineering career I successfully designed several of them. Two are integral to patented and commercially successful medical devices.

[@allmyfriendsareahole]

I was waiting for this video to come out

[@MA-ro5qi]

Sad. Great report. Thanks sir. Thoughts and Prayers to Loved Ones left behind.

[@jonchmielowski835]

Pilots did the best they could! Prayers for them, this is a sad situation.. Btw.. the music in your videos is perfect for the sorrow and seriousness of these accidents and incidents, thank you for bringing these videos to attention for us all

[@nunya-d2t]

7:20 - there's also 125 and 121 where you charter the whole plane. That's before we get into cargo and other nuances.

[@Dan_Bender]

From today's Columbus Dispatch: "The pilot, Edward Daniel Murphy, 50, of Oakland Park, Florida and co-pilot Ian Frederick Hofmann, 65, of Pompano Beach, Florida both died in the crash, according to the Collier County Sheriff's Office in Florida. Survivors included crew member Sydney Ann Bosmans, 23, of Jupiter, Florida; and passengers Aaron Baker, 35, and Audra Green, 23, both of Columbus."

[@garygrant9612]

Sidney the flight attendant, was the hero for the passengers getting out of the aircraft. She knew immediately where to exit and open the rear door.

[@hlowrylong]

Darn. I posted it before I saw you did. My bad.

[@BrainWearmouth]

Any word on the truck passengers?

[@MrTruckerf]

No significant injuries. A fantastic story except for the pilots.@@BrainWearmouth

[@nashguy207]

Thanks Juan, I had not heard of this crash. God be with the pilots families!