Great work as always. It may be a topic for a future episode (apologies if I cause a spoiler), but I am surprised you didn't bring up Schillinger Instrumental forms. I have always thought of them as a hyper-organized adaptation of hocketing.
@FransAbsil2 жыл бұрын
@Erik Hiser Thanks for this comment, which required doing homework before answering. I do not remember to have seen hocket technique discussed in the Schillinger volumes (please correct me if I'm wrong). Did I miss something? So I scanned the Instrumental Forms book. Some examples have limited hocket characteristics such as Fig 5 on p. 889 (and similar examples for 2-, 3- and 4-part strata), and Fig 160 (p. 1015) + 167 (p. 1028). But all these refer to distribution of harmony layers over multiple parts, not the distribution of melody note groups over alternating instruments. I do agree though, that the instrumental forms book is the appropriate place to introduce hoquetus, e.g., in Chapter 2, where melody is listed as source material, p. 886. Hocket patterns could 'easily' be inserted as another module, in addition to the attack-duration pattern synchronization process. Maybe it's one of those subjects that never reached the printed volumes. So no, it is not a spoiler, but a great idea for an extension to the instrumental form approaches in the Schillinger System.
@erikhiser66002 жыл бұрын
@@FransAbsil Apologies for making you do that research. It has been an abstraction I had always made that helped me along the path of "why did he do this" not anything that had been stated explicitly. It may have been his brief two-part counter point, and piano arranging sections in that book that made me associate it with instrumental forms - if he had addressed it directly, as you stated I think it would have been there, it might have also fit in well in Book XI on composition -- either in the expanded counter point or the density sections. If this sparked an idea, please take it an run with it. You have been making great strides in making this comprehensive and occasionally confusing system more understandable for a great number of people.
@adamjnotthecongressmanschi70262 жыл бұрын
@@FransAbsil Maybe coordination of time structures would be more comparable. Though, I don't really understand that chapter, so I could be wrong.
@FransAbsil2 жыл бұрын
@Adam J not the congressman Schiff, Thank you for this brilliant suggestion! I started re-reading Book 8 from the Theory of Rhythm. I expected the SSoMC mentioning hocket technique in the book on Instrumental Forms (or Melody), which is not the case. However, it is possible to produce hocket when applying the procedure on p. 35, inspecting Section C (p. 39), and using Melody (a given pitch-attack-duration group) as source material. Indeed, this chapter is very vague, and not enough examples (some containing errors). BTW, step (3) from the procedure on p. 35 to me makes no sense, as I see no way to coordinate rhythm per part and then in step (4) integrally for all parts. But the aspect of rhythm distribution over an instrumental group includes the recepy for hocket. So thanks for your observation.
@flibflob27852 жыл бұрын
Such awesome quality content
@FransAbsil2 жыл бұрын
@Flib Flob I am always pleased to learn that my efforts are being appreciated. Thanks for the kind words.
@boisdesud2 жыл бұрын
Louis Andriessen has made a career out of extreme hocketing. "Hoketus" is the most distilled example, but there are amazing examples throughout his catalog. If you can hang in for the full evolution of the process, the switch from a hocket that is mostly textural/rhythmic to a moto perpetuo monody that has been hocketized is an amazing payoff. I'm partial to the Bang on a Can recording on "Gigantic Dancing Human Machine." Lots of examples scattered throughout the large-ensemble piece "De Staat" as well. Another piece on the BoaC recording is "Hout", that technically isn't hocketing, but more like an extreme stretto, or an extremely close canon. Each of the instruments is playing the same melody, but delayed by a sixteenth note at each entrance.
@FransAbsil2 жыл бұрын
@Jon Southwood Thank you for rightly adding Louis Andriessen and the Ensemble Hoketus to the list of modern hocket technique examples, and listing specific examples from the repertoire. The man also deserves respect and credit for educating and inspiring so many contemporary composers who studied with him at the Royal Conservatory in the Netherlands.