Horizontal Milling T Nuts!

[@kevinyeaton6963]

One suggestion. Always have the over-arm support in place when tightening or loosening the arbor nut. This will lessen the likelihood of bending your arbor. Keep up the good work!

[@jonblais6225]

Was just about to comment this. My garvin horizontal mill had a really bent arbor when i got it and after all the work to get it straight I almost won't breathe on the thing without it being in the support

[@hersch_tool]

Great tip, thanks very much!

[@MatthewRulla]

Regarding the chatter: Verify that all your arbor spacers are very clean and have perfectly ground ends. Be sure your running bushing is a good fit in the overarm. Verify that your way gibs are tight enough and that the ways are getting the correct amount of way lube. You can always play with feeds and speeds if you think the problem is harmonics. Your size mill likes to take a heavy cut (depth & width) with a relatively slow table feed. Does your B&S have anti-backlash screws and nuts? If so, try making a climb cut. Thanks for the video and keep the horiz mill work coming. Excellent content!

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much for the tips. I think I'll play around with speeds and feeds and see if I can vary the results and find some consistency in them. Like I said, a lot to learn... 😅I'm looking forward to using and learning more about the machine, and I'll definitely be sharing so stay tuned! Thanks again for the help, and thank you for watching!

[@robertharper8776]

Thanks for the video it don't matter what you make or who's done it before. I love old tools like your ratchet.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much for watching. And me too, I love the feel of an old quality tool

[@markjackson8833]

Machinist from Australia Love it.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much, and cheers from the states!

[@brett8090]

That's pretty smart with the tapping technique. Thanks for sharing.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much, and thanks for watching!

[@captainraypaul4919]

The T nuts turned out fantastic! I need to build some for myself. Great video 👍🏻👍🏻

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much! They're actually a really great project. I thought that it would be pretty quick but there's actually a good deal to consider and do to construct them. milling, measuring, drilling, tapping, it's a surprisingly fun project with an incredibly useful result. thanks for watching!

[@voodoochild1954]

Every aspect of that machine is awesome! Nice work doing operations that are new to you. 👏🏻

[@hersch_tool]

Haha, I agree, it's such a cool machine and so much fun to use. Clever and beautiful mechanical design. You can tell that the people who designed it took great pride in their work. And thank you, I love this trade and feel like there is so much more to learn. I feel like I could spend the rest of my life working towards getting a little tiny bit better every day and never run out of room to grow.

[@pikeyMcBarkin]

Really enjoyed this one, you continue to show us all great stuff. Much appreciated.

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you for watching!

[@WhoFartedSeriously]

Man I think a good side clamping two piece vise would work great on that horizontal set up.

[@hersch_tool]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. That and a selection of good versatile fixture blocks would probably go a long way.

[@syldysnya]

Greate video as always!

[@hersch_tool]

Thank you!

[@dermotkelly2289]

Good job. Those T - Nuts are expensive. Horizontal milling is a little bit old school but I used to enjoy it especially when you have a small batch of components to make. Keep it mate.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much. Yeah, it's definitely old school but I really love the old machines and the "old ways", my dad always told me I had an "old soul" when I was younger lol. I'm really enjoying using and learning about this beautiful old machine. Thanks for watching btw!

[@jimsvideos7201]

Nice bit of handiwork, I need to make some too and I'd ne happy if they come out so well.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much, and thanks for watching!

[@romanvarcolac2238]

Love the TiN coated milling cutter! Not often you see those on horizontal mills in videos. I am not sure why you are getting that chatter patterns, but you may be right it is runout in the arbor. Keep up the videos, look forward to more horizontal milling!

[@hersch_tool]

Me too! Got a great deal on it resharpened off eBay. Thanks very much btw, I'm looking forward to learning more about this machine as well and I'll definitely be sharing the process! 🙂

[@romanvarcolac2238]

@@hersch_tooleBay is the best sometimes for machine tools. I have gotten tons of HSS,HSCO, and carbide tools for a fraction of the price they are from manufacturers. Some are used, but still in really good shape. I do not mind if some tool snob throws away an end mill because the surface finish has a slight line in it if I get it for a fraction of the price lol.

[@ManofMode]

Hi, nice video thanks for posting. I made the same mistake as you when first using the horizontal mill. The two things I changed to improve things greatly were speeds and feeds. Also the following. I think in a way you are using it like a vertical mill in asking it to remove almost all the metal with the outer surface of the cutter (i.e. the cutting edge that runs parallel to the table). I found that by using the side cutting edges (those perpendicular to the table) as the primary means of removing the metal, with more passes results in a much better finish. Hopefully that makes sense. All the best.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much for tips, I will definitely play around with those things and see what kind of results I can get. It's definitely been a learning curve trying to get away from the "vertical mindset". It's something that I'm aware of but still struggle in getting myself to "think differently" if that makes sense. Thanks again and thanks for watching!

[@TT-qo9dv]

The first thing I noticed was the old ratchet 😊

[@hersch_tool]

Haha, yeah I love that old ratchet! 👍

[@Trainwreck1123]

I have never run a horizontal myself, but I think you could have added a second cutter with an appropriate spacer to cut both sides of the t section in the same pass, saving you half of the time. I would love to have a horizontal, and with ToT not really posting anymore I think you are the only KZbinr that has one (that I know of at least). Looking forward to more videos on it!

[@hersch_tool]

Yeah I had originally wanted to do tandem cutters but didn't have two that matched. Most of my cutters are second hand regrinds because they're much cheaper so the sizes are all slightly different. I'm def looking forward to using it more and learning more about it myself. I just think it's super cool and a lot of fun to use. 🙂

[@gofastwclass]

Keith Rucker and Adam Booth both have horizontal mills.

[@greglaroche1753]

How do you like running oil with your mill? Do you think it evacuates chips and cools enough ? I’m trying to decide which way to go ? I like the rust protection oil gives for a machine that’s not used regularly. Thanks for the video !

[@hersch_tool]

@@greglaroche1753 Thanks very much for watching. I definitely am happy with using oil in this machine. For an older slower spindle where greater cutting pressure is being generated the oil works very well and help preserve tool life. Oil and coolant are different animals that do different things. Oil lubricates the cutting tool, lowers friction and consequently heat, helps to prevent tool buildup, etc. Coolant cools, which is especially good for higher speed machining where a lot of heat is being generated but much lower cutting pressures. Coolant also lubricates, but not nearly as well as oil, just as oil cools, but not as well as coolant.

[@starbolin]

I prefer a two-piece vice for a horizontal mill. The fixed jaw goes on the left, spanning the slots. This way, the cutting forces are against and perpendicular to the fixed jaw. The fixed jaw is held down with two bolts to better withstand higher cutting forces the mill can produce.

[@hersch_tool]

Yeah those are super cool, it's on my list of projects. Thanks very much for watching!

[@marcusschriever4518]

Wouldn't it help to run the power feed the other way so you aren't picking up chips with every rotation?

[@hersch_tool]

As others have mentioned, a very light climb cut at the very end for a finishing pass might help clean up the surface finish. But the bulk of the material removal still needs to be done with conventional milling. I'm sure saving 5 maybe 10 thou for a finish pass though would help out a lot for sure. Thanks very much for watching btw.

[@anthonycash4609]

So on a no brainer week all we get is T nuts .🤔 lol just kidding I can't even make a video. Still love to see the machine work. No matter what your making.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much 🙂

[@eamonnquinn9585]

Good project- I’m surprised there was no gang milling :-) the ripples and gaulliste g are par for the course - try dropping the feed rate for a finishing cut. Get them case hardened and they will last for years

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks! I didn't have the cutters for gang milling, woulda been super cool though if I did

[@PaulSteMarie]

I think you could gang the cutters and cut both sides at the same time. Also, drill holes in your stock and bolt it down to the t slots. Much less trouble than screwing with a vise. Also, use an air blast to clear chips from the cutter. It's lifting some chips up and over and recutting them as they're carried into the cut from the rear. If you blow the chips in the teeth to the side at the front of the cutter, they won't get carried over the top.

[@hersch_tool]

Yeah I would have liked to gang the cutters but I didn't have matching cutters. My cutters are mostly 2nd hand resharpened because they're much cheaper, so the diameters are all over the place. I definitely think it's time I start learning more about fixturing and alternate work holding to better take advantage of this machine. Thanks very much for the tips, and thank you for watching!

[@rokforroket007]

I can suppose that you got that chatter on surfaces because of chips that are getting between the mill and material. Perhaps if you use cooling instead of oil for better chip evacuation, the surface will become smoother. Perpendicular lines on surfaces look like there is not enough rigidity. Maybe try to decrease the feed rate and increase the speed of the spindle. Nice video and very cool T-nuts you made!

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much! I think rigidity might be playing a role for sure. I've got a lot of practicing and experimenting to do and a lot of great suggestions to try out I think. Thanks again!

[@shootersven]

Get your self a good Shell mill, the helix on such cutters is to prevent chatter, your slot mill is made for slotting😁

[@hersch_tool]

i wanted to use the shell mill for the squaring and cutting them to size but it wouldn't reach, hence the comments about some other work holding methods. i figured the side cutting mill would be good for cutting the tees, and it kinda was, except for the one side that came out looking like dooky. 🤷‍♂️

[@camillosteuss]

Now i may be shooting this straight outta my ass, but, it could also be the hen laying a golden egg... Surface grinders can produce very similar style of ripple-chatter pattern in the material... The thing with them in that case is the fact that the cut is being done too slow - feed-wise... The wheel, or i suppose in your case, the cutter is managing to make a full cut in a specific spot, thus neutralizing what little kick-up the cut is forcing the spindle to perform... There is always some movement, some flexing, some elasticity... This mill is rigid, but so are behemoth industrial surface grinders, and they see much less force imparted by grinding vs actual shearing cut... Now if that is the fact, each of those ripples with a valley in between the two of them are an instance where the cutter has had time to have ``sparked out`` or managed to remove enough material for the elasticity of the system to push it back into material and cut no more - it`s right where it should be on the final spring pass or in grinder`s case a spark out... Now the valley is followed by a ripple, which is the cutter engaging the material once more, kicking the arbor or whatever, be it support rods, be it squishing the table oil film, nodding the knee ever so slightly or whatever, but by re-engaging the material, there is enough deflection to the system that the cutter ``climbs up`` the material as it starts cutting, and as it engages properly, it digs back in, again finding the time to settle in that section for short enough to annul the elasticity... In case of surface grinders, you don`t mess with the spindle speed(most of them have but one anyway - balls out or nothing) as it`s apparently sufficient for the wheel to remove the material, so you increase the traverse speed of the grind, thus denying the wheel the time it needs to dig in, but rather you keep it fully engaged in the cut during the whole traverse, keeping the load on the system throughout the cut constant... If i`m right, you could technically make a pass like that, take the chips, lay them out in order in which they have been formed and measure them, you will get a sine wave function constant oscillation in measured thickness of the chips should you measure them... I can`t absolutely say that you should increase the traverse speed, but if you did kick it up by just a smidgeon it could be the cure, tho, i assume that your mill has a mech. gear mesh ratios for speeds, so no smidgeons for you, just steps... As said, i`m shooting outta my ass, comparing two very dissimilar machine types and machining processes, but ultimately, there is a whole lot of similarities between the two, so in this case, it very well could be an applicable line of thought... In a way, while totally different, it`s kinda why you stroke an internal cyl. grinder in a way so that the stone never leaves the bore on either end until you are done... The changes in load and deflection cause bell-mouthing... Whenever you have an instance where the system load changes, shit happens, same why you get streaks on manually fed lathe o.d. cuts if you stop for just a split-second in one place - there is enough time for the cut to annul the deflection... It`s all different scenarios of the same concept... Having had written my script of the day, i bid thee fare well - as I depart... Steuss -edit- tho, that arbour could be bent... the cut sounds eccentric, it should not be the cutter geometry, as those are usually much more concentric when compared to a slitting saw, but if the arbor is straight and the cutter is perfect, which i didn`t mention as i thought it obvious first ideas, it very well could be the aforementioned theory/surface grinder analogy... I just wanted to add this in, as to cross out the usual suspects off the list... and to say that that spotty ``flaking`` does appear to be re-cut chips...

[@Warped65er]

Nice, not tapping all the way through to prevent damage to the table T-slots.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much 🙂

[@madmodder123]

@@hersch_tool you can also take a punch to the threads on the bottom of the T-nut to damage them so the threaded rod doesn't go down through into the table

[@hersch_tool]

@@madmodder123 Yep that would certainly work as well.

[@MegaRiffraff]

👍🏻

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks 🙂

[@zoltannagy1813]

Nice result. Question: Why do you use cutting oil instead of soluble oil and water mix? The soluble mix is better for cooling and also washing away chips.

[@Narwaro]

Lubrication

[@hersch_tool]

The oil provides lubrication for the cutting tool, reducing friction, lowering heat, preventing tool buildup, etc. especially good under high machining pressures.

[@Grossaaa]

@@hersch_tool Which is why you should use an emulsion. This combines the properties of water and oil. You get the lubrication of the oil while you also have the advantage of higher heat transfer and better chip removal that water provides. It is also significantly cheaper than running pure oil. The only real disadvantage is that the emulsion can go bad. However if you aren't in an insanely hot climate, that can take months.

[@hersch_tool]

@@Grossaaa negative. Emulsions doing not lubricate as well as cutting oil. Emulsions are great for high speed modern spindles. For slow spindle high cutting pressures oil lubricates much better. Oil is a good choice for this machine. Not to mention, oil doesn't go rancid and the sump for this machine is in the base and very difficult to change. Again, oil is a good choice for this machine.

[@romanvarcolac2238]

@@hersch_toolYeah, it seems HSS and HSCO cutters generally work better with oil coolant due to their cutting parameters. The better you can dampen rubbing, the longer the tool will last, especially with HSS and HSCO cutters.

[@davidjftooley]

Hmmmm. Id be nervous about not tapping all the way, seems to me that you are going to have a lot more surface area to get the threads jammed and could run into removal problems. Tapping all the way and then bending the last row of threads to stop the screw would create less surface area for threads to contact and be easier to release. Then you will also have more consistent nuts as i suspect each nut has a different spot where the bolt stops.

[@hersch_tool]

yeah that would definitely work as well. the consistency isn't really an issue though since they're just t nuts. if i find there's any problems with removal i can always go back and run the tap the rest of the way through, but i don't imagine it'll be an really, hopefully... lol. thanks for watching!

[@grippgoat]

I think i have that same yellow deadblow hammer😂

[@hersch_tool]

Haha nice! I stole this one from my dad 😂

[@MadeInMichigan]

I'm far from being any kind of expert, but I'd say that (what you called) galling is probably chatter. From what i remember of running a horizontal mill, you want to choke up on your cutter a little harder. You want to be centered up over your work, obviously, but you don't want, say 8" of spacers on the spindle side and a foot spacers on the other. That arbor's big and thick and heavy, but it still flexes.

[@hersch_tool]

Yeah I'm sure you're right about that. I tried to get as close to the cutter as I could but had to clear the vice especially on the head stock side.

[@jimsvideos7201]

One day a K&T mill won't be funny looking, but that day is not today.

[@hersch_tool]

It's a Brown & Sharpe 😉

[@louiskolodzeiski6588]

Maybe you had the surface finish problems because you did everything conventional milling, you need to take the last .5mm climb milling and same with the side faces otherwise the cutter is always rubbing on it But cool vid with big chips

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much, some others have mentioned the same thing. I definitely should have saved a few thou for a climb finish cut. Thanks again, and thank you for watching!

[@garrypalmer5014]

I would take all the sharp edges off

[@theradarguy]

Nice video. I don't know about your shop but I find shards everywhere. So for safety sake I'd spend $0.60 for a switch plate before you have a real surprise.

[@hersch_tool]

Thanks very much! And yeah, lol I keep meaning to pick one up. I cobbled together the coolant system on a Sunday afternoon using stuff I had around the shop, had the switch but not a faceplate and just haven't remembered to pick one up.

[@НиколайКрымский-б1л]

у нас, через океан, осталось наследие великой страны СССР в виде множества учебных (школьных) станков - настольный горизонтальный фрезер, он так и называется НГФ (конструктивно он очень похож на твой, только маленький), и 99% самодельщиков начинают именно с горизонтального фрезерования. и Т-гайки это первое, с чего начинают))

[@hersch_tool]

Большое спасибо за ваш комментарий. Моя жена из России, и она переводила мне. СССР был великой индустриальной державой, как и США. Нам обоим очень повезло, что у нас есть такое великое и гордое наследие, на котором можно учиться. Спасибо за просмотр.

[@bheckel1]

My chart says 27/64😄

[@hersch_tool]

Depends on the thread engagement you're after. There's a wide range listed in the handbook.

[@irish-simon]

where do i start with what you are doing wrong ? there is a lot to be said about being a time severed trades person these diy people making these videos just insults real trades men/women

[@brownh2orat211]

But yet here you are watching it! Why is it that so called "Processional machinists" are really so unprofessional? Where are all you're videos showing everyone all of your "time severed" experence?

[@joedowling5452]

Start at the beginning and share the vast storehouse of knowledge that you allege to have.

[@fna-wrightengineering]

I'll bet you were an expert right away, in everything you've ever done. I'll bet the first time you touched a mill, you knew exactly what to do, without anyone having to tell you. I'll bet you've never made a single mistake in your life. It must be so hard to be you, in this world full of people that need to do something as lowly as "learning". There's a lot to be said about being a decent human being, who understands that not everyone has the same experiences as you have. These "expert" people making these comments just insults real decent men/women.