Ep. 077 - Match Ammunition

On this episode, Seth is joined by Assistant Director of Engineering, Joe Thielen and Senior Ballistician, Jayden Quinlan. This week, the guys explain what makes match ammo - match ammo. The term “Match Accurate” isn’t used lightly within these walls and they cover, in detail, why that is and what it takes for a bullet and ammo line to earn that recognition. The guys also do a great breakdown of the components that make up a loaded cartridge - bullet, cartridge case, powder, and primer - and how each of these components affect the other. Turns out, it can be quite the balancing act to get all four to play together and provide truly match accurate performance.

[@johnl5974]

Always interesting to watch about the controls and knowledge base that goes into factory loaded ammunition. After 35+ years, I continue to handload 243 since target ammo isn't available, but I buy American Gunner for 6.5CM.

[@NordicRifleman]

Thank you guys for a great episode! 😀👍🏻

[@hornady]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@johnhughes2043]

When my .308 custom AR10 “18 progressive twist barrel was built, my question was “what off the shelf ammo should I run” ? Hornady Black 168gr. AWESOME! I’ve tried some other good quality ammo in it, (will not run “cheap junk” through it) and did not take long to figure out, the Black was the way to go. Almost like the rifle was built around this ammo to start. Excellent product and after listening to this I know why. Great job to all at Hornady, makes my geezer gun and the geezer behind it look good all the time. Thanks

[@anthonybrown2426]

I have a POF Revolution 308 DI and the Hornady Black 168 grain is what I run without issues and 1/2 -3/4 moa groups consistently. It will run and cycle any ammunition but anything under 150 grain, the groups open up considerably. Hornady Superformance 150 grain is another that groups well same as the 178 grain Precision Hunter from Hornady. I’ve found that Winchester rifle ammunition is crap compared to others but Hornady is tops.

[@joevollmer3037]

I tested two different lot numbers of 140gr. ELDM ammo. Both shot extremely well. The groups were sub moa and SDs were eight and nine. The only difference was in velocity. Lot one 35 fps than Lot two. I was very impressed with the quality and accuracy of you Match Ammo. Both were shot in the same rifle on the same day in a AI 6.5 Creedmoor.

[@FergusScotchman]

Jayden (the fellow in the back right with cap) is just like me. Lol. He was talking about the factors that affect accuracy like hardness, tolerances, etc.... Jayden: I know you have the multiple regression analysis showing which factors have more effect. Please post it!

[@hdmungeryt]

When Jayden made the comment about different powders giving different results, I had hoped that he would elaborate more on that. Maybe in a future podcast you guys could discuss why different powders shooting the same bullet at the same velocity can give you different results?

[@veteranironoutdoors8320]

Pressure curves and barrel harmonics.

[@trevorkolmatycki4042]

They already have a whole episode on internal ballistics … its episode #28.

[@propertypreparedness6846]

^^^^^^^^^^^Yes and another part 2..

[@pevelyhomeowner327]

Episode 76, “Let’s talk about powder” may be of interest.

[@hdmungeryt]

@@veteranironoutdoors8320 Ah, nice...an actual answer to my question.

[@joselcamachorivera3355]

Good morning,Watching from Puerto Rico

[@MrHuntermikey]

Good morning Sir from Canada

[@davidbonnichsen2901]

This is why I love math…you guys should sponsor a STEM program.

[@8208isfun]

Love your shows. Love your products. What accuracy standard do your 6mm A-Tip I shoot have to meet?

[@ghostedyoutuber263]

All of my ammo is super-dooper-ultra-MAGA-XXX MIL-SPEC MATCH that gives me 4 MOA or better and I paid 10X for it. I recently fired some linked machine gun ammo surplus from the 1960's. I noticed that they gave me 4 MOA or better. Then I looked at the head stamp of the MATCH ammo vs FMJ linked ammo... and they were the same. BUT, the packaging of the MATCH ammo was super sweet.

[@bern1998]

Will we be seeing a 8.6 Blackout offering sometime soon?

[@paulcee2404]

I had the worst experience with factory loaded hornady match 300 prc. I had got a new rifle and purchased 100rds of hornady match. I was quite satisfied, so i purchased a case of it - $500. SDs went from 22fps to 48fps, went from .5 moa to 3 moa, also to mention the difference in avg velocity was 60fps more from lot to lot. $500 and barrel life down the drain. Bright side i started reloading.

[@scottstruif3939]

Do your cartridge inspectors check concentricity of each cartridge by hand?

[@robertrhodes7180]

Hay Hornady do you blend powders for any cartridges .

[@maguslascivious4980]

how do I get that box of 6.5 grendel american gunner back on the shelf? That stuff was awesome.

[@TheJimtanker]

500 gr A-Tip, how cute. I like my 700 gr T-Rex rounds. LOL Love Hornady match bullets.

[@shooterxix4434]

Any thoughts into making a heavier critical defense 9mm or maybe a short barrel 124+p critical duty? 🤔 i know it would be across all plat forms but speaking from a 9mm carry side

[@kennygates1756]

22 ARC?

[@lone_wolf_kinda_person8486]

Wished they’d make a .264 130 grain ELD-X

[@Accuracy1st]

I was thinking 135 grain

[@lone_wolf_kinda_person8486]

@@Accuracy1st that would work to but my Bergara likes the 130 been using them to hunt with just fine but if they had a 130 ELD-M and X would be nice

[@trentsnaza3372]

I shoot allot of Hornady bullets!! Dang good bullets!!! I have shot Hornady Garand match ammo, great ammo!! Your match bullets like the 140gr eld match are excellent hunting bullets! Shot a buck at 360 yds last year with my 6.5 Swede with 140gr Eld match bullet and 4831. But your "match" ammo or bullets aren't as accurate as open tip bullets like the Berger Vld or Nosler rdf's or Laupa scenar otm bullets. But on the bright side keep making them awesome bullets

[@Allen338LM]

I wish y'all made a 300 gr .338 match load

[@rick9811]

338 Cal .338 300 gr A-Tip Match

[@scottpeters9108]

Please don't take this in a negative way (consider it a positive for Precision Hunter), but I wonder why you even bother to make the white box match, when you have Precision Hunter? In the Hornady developed cartridge rifles I have, Precision Hunter outshoots Match in all three. Not just by a hair. All 3 of these rifles, with Match are about 1MOA or less for 5 shot groups, the Precision Hunter is performing closer to 0.5 MOA and under for 5 shot groups. I have put considerable rounds, greater than 100 of each, through all 3 of these rifles, but far from shooting them out. Referring to 100 yard groups here. All 3 rifles are in good condition, little to no throat erosion yet. 3 different calibers, 3 different manufacturers, same result? Examples - 300 PRC Fierce Fury - 212 ELD-x outshoots the 225 ELD-M Match (talking factory loaded ammo, not just the bullets) 6mm Creed Springfield Waypoint 2020 - 103 Precision Hunter outshoots the 108 Match 6.5 PRC Tikka T3x V Wideland - 143 Precision Hunter outshoots the 147 Match. My thought is that the jump with the Precision Hunter is smaller because of the different ogives on the Precision Hunter vs the Match? The jump measures shorter (even though the OAL may be less on the Precision Hunter), and I'm guessing the rifles like that shorter jump? Have you at Hornady experienced similar things? I'm looking at a limited amount of data, I understand that, but from my finite experience, the Precision Hunter works better for both game and target shooting.

[@aaronunterseher1627]

I make 25 bucks an hour It takes 2 hours to buy 1 box of white box I can reload from a spent case the same 20 rounds in less then 30 minutes and I save on average 1 bucks a trigger pull because I don't need torebiy Cases

[@RHG48]

Bought 4 boxes of Precision Hunter for a new 6.5 PRC. ES and SD were in the 70fps and 35fps. I don't expect any factory ammo to shoot in my gun but this stuff was not very consistent. Handloads were in the single digits so I know it's not the rifle or ignition. Kinda tough to swallow at the current/new prices.

[@thatguyoverthere2288]

Thank you for adding manufacturing! Every other maker during hard times goes "this demand won't last so it's not financially feasible to grow"

[@reloadingfun]

the promoting is getting too deep for me, im out.

[@davepowell001]

When you call a certain "standard"... are your parameters more aimed toward max velocity, or extreme spread....as a loader I've learned that faster isn't always more accurate

[@trevorkolmatycki4042]

Look I’m a reloader… so I’m all about that… but this idea that shooting well with factory ammo is some sort of modern miracle… puzzles me. Folks have been shooting lights out with good factory ammo for decades… particularly the military. Hell yes projectiles and optics and ballistic solvers have all gotten better in the past ten years making long range shooting more accessible. There is no reason to think you can’t shoot precisely without reloading… hand loads are not magical or anything. And… props to the good folks at Hornady for their commitment to quality and reliable economical supply.

[@joehuff4025]

When I think of Match ammo, I’m looking for consistency, period! When I match a specific gun to a specific ammo the results are always top notch. My match triggers aren’t always the lightest but break very consistently.

[@jonathanmitchell3733]

That question will break people ha ha ha. Cartridge and bullet, any rifle.... Most difficult.

[@frozenjoe6313]

in my .308 pws m220 with match barrel, 2 stage match trigger all that stuff using sierra #2200 168 HPBT, tried heavier bullets didnt work well, and my best has been 168 grain shooting 1 moa..... Next is HORNADY ELD MATCH 168 grain #30506 using starline cases.and 3031 powder................... Lets see if I can do better.

[@WesternReloader]

Hornady require employees to receive gene therapy?

[@popnoice8126]

I have a custom built 300 PRC and was able to hit a mile with the factory 225 Match load last weekend. It's pretty incredible for that kind of shooting to be possible with a factory load.

[@wilcoxblues27]

Hey, just curious if you guys have tested how much powder charge precision affects chamber pressure and muzzle velocity. You hear about people measuring to the kernel of powder, but it doesn't seem like that small difference in powder charge would cause a statistically significant difference in muzzle velocity. From your testing, what is the level of resolution at which powder charge begins to actually affect velocity? ie measuring to the kernel, .01 grain, .05grain etc.

[@constitutionalist4391]

10:02 Please release (for purchase) the 8.6 blackout data you have! 🙏 Clarification: want to see 1:3 twist data, with Hornady 6.5cm cases (resized) and Hornady CX bullets. Same with 300 blackout, although you offer new data for $3.99, it is the older twist. Reloaders want current info, having 300 blackout with 1:5 twist data would be preferred...just sayin'...electronic app/data seems preferable, and Hornady makes out better selling it for $3.99/ea, but please keep it current with the community and what they're developing. I expect to get load data from Hornady for their buillets, CX in my case.

[@andrewwherley8818]

I want to get into some different rifle matches and was wondering best types or ways to find them. Looking for more hunting style for rifles as want to translate skills when out in field. Was thinking long range hunting or a silhouette style? Any advice would be appreciated

[@fartinthewind933]

I've had some success with the Hornady match in the white box. But the Hornady black has to be some of the worst ammo I've ever shot in every caliber I've ever bought it for. It shoots the same groups as cheap plinking ammo no matter what gun I use it in no matter what caliber. I love Hornady I use it for all of my reloading purposes I'm a Hornady one shot fan while everyone else bashas it but my God that Hornady black box is some of the crappiest stuff I've ever bought that called itself match ammo. I'm sorry it just is at least for all my guns.

[@steveskolnick3060]

IS it possible to order .284 Winchester brass?

[@MrRedFox13Photography]

Good morning for Houston Texas

[@jjmckay6man1]

No disrespect to Hornady but FGMM 168gr .308 Win has been around for a long time and is still in my opinion the Gold Standard for off the shelf .308 Win. Match cartridge loadings. Hornady is doing great things and I love their reloading components and these podcasts. Hornady makes some great loadings also that I use like the .450 bushmaster 250 ftx.

[@amym828]

You have your right to your opinion and feelings, but I recently did a test with a box of FGMM 168gr compared to Hornady Match 168 BTHP and 178 gr ELDM. All groups at 100 yards were under 1 MOA. However, the Federal GMM had a SD of 22 and both Hornady loads were 5.2 and 9.3 SD. That is significant.

[@jjmckay6man1]

@@amym828 I didn't say what Hornady puts out was bad. my experience (not feelings)with FGMM is over 30 years and has always shot great in all but 1 308 I've used it in. I use a few of Hornady's loads and My experience has been good with those loadings. I mostly hand load my own though and have for 30 years. Thank You for sharing your experiences with their ammo.

[@trevorkolmatycki4042]

One thing that was not mentioned that I think is a plus for factory match ammo is the advent of barrel tuners. Much of the effort in match reloading is tuning the charge and bullet seat to tweak the load for a barrel’s specific “harmonics”. Now with these barrel tuner devices you can tune the barrel to shoot factory ammunition optimally… which is fantastic. Heck, an episode on barrel tuners would be very interesting indeed.