Horrors of the Vietnam Air War 50+ Years Later (ep. 192)

John "Shylock" Koch was an A-6 Intruder bombardier / navigator (BN) who flew more than 200 combat missions during the #vietnamwar, most with the same pilot.
As you will learn during this emotional interview, Shylock's life-changing experiences and heartbreaking loss remain as poignant during the sharing of these incredible stories 50+ years later as the day they happened.
Visit the A-6 Intruder Association here: www.intruderassociation.org/
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[@meghanfortier9846]

Thank you for this gift. I cannot express the amount of pride I have for my father and all of VA-115. We (John’s children and grandchildren) have been soaking up every bit of information that we can since he started opening up about his time in Vietnam. I am so thankful this recording exists so I can continue to share the history of what these fine young men did. Thank you Fighter Pilot Podcast!

[@steveyoung7669]

Thank You for your service Shylok. I was on U.S.S. Midway in Weapons Department 77'-79' and was an A-6 Ordnanceman prior to that. I remember VA-115, I have touched your aircraft.

[@darenkelly4430]

Capt. David Kelly was..is my elder brother.Thank you John Koch for keeping Dave 'topside'

[@jkoch8697]

Best Intruder Pilot in the fleet, he is the reason I am still walking and talking, I’ll never forget him!

[@heofthesquarebum]

The bravery of aircrew flying those missions is something that I will never be able to comprehend. You always hear about the "Greatest" generation but surely the time has come for America to acknowledge the bravery and sacrifices made regardless of the decade or conflict.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Agreed.

[@alanbarker319]

This episode was awesome. And for a 75 year old Marine very moving. Those were tough times. The sacrifices made were enormous and largely unrecognized and unappreciated. Thank you and John so much for sharing.

[@digitalperson108]

For sure. To this day, I cannot understand why, and what for. I want to think they were sacrificing for a good reason, but it sure feels like the whole debacle did more to destabilize, than the opposite. I have been looking for years to find some evidence that the war was “useful” in some good way.

[@Helibeaver]

Please keep these coming. These stories never get old.

[@slags83]

The B52 he witnessed get shot down was call sign Charcoal 1, a B52G, 58-0201. They got hit by two SA2s at once and only three of the crew members survived, including the navigator who he references here. Their target was a rail yard that they never made it to. The aircraft essentially detonated in air. My uncle was the commander of Charcoal 1 and died from injuries sustained when one of the SAMs hit the cockpit.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thanks for the additional detail but condolences for your uncle. #respect

[@slags83]

I appreciate you bringing guys like this on.

[@robertupchurch8088]

Very very good, most Americans do not understand what these men did, the bonds they developed. Thank you.

[@ThomasBrockington]

Thanks for a another great podcast, Vincent. This one was both informative and moving. And glad to hear you're back in the cockpit!

[@robertworley9620]

I remember, as a VQ/VP aircrewman in those days, the talk about who was being considered for mining the NVN harbors. P-3s could carry a bunch of mines internally & externally & were considered for the missions. Fortunately someone realized P-3s had a 12 man crew and losses were anticipated. The A-6 could carry almost as many mines as a P-3 & the SARCAP for a downed A-6 would be way easier to do than for a P-3. That was a long time ago in a place far far away.

[@FlyingDutchmanPodcast]

Gotta be one of my favorite episodes. Very moving as this gentleman shares his experience and the emotions surfacing. Jell-o you do such a great job.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Thank you.

[@FD1CE]

What a wholesome discussion. The stories are human-changing! Bravery, brotherhood, patriotism, wowww... Glad everyone of us could share lump and tears for good! Thanks Jello ^^

[@Gomendio]

For me aiello, you rounded the circle with this interview. Seriously. I red at the age of 12 the Coontz,s flight of the intruder and that book and Jake grafton made me a pilot and an aviation professional. That book , A6s, night missions, Yankee station and A6s carrier ops created the spark to the aviation professional I’m today. Terrific interview. Made justice to that pice of flying history. Congrats.

[@jettsetter7]

My grandfather died in a multi-million dollar F4 Phantom bombing a cheap ass Soviet 37mm AAA gun. He was due to meet my grandmother in Hawaii in 2 weeks. That war screwed a lot of families over.

[@ErnieAlgorriernietheattorney]

A humble and courageous American here. Thank you and welcome home Mr Koch

[@mikelastname]

Jell-o you bring real "war stories" to us. My father was in South Vietnam with the RAAF, but on a US AFB, and he has a lot of admiration for the US pilots and aircrew and the way they really looked out for each other. Shylock, thanks for regaling us with this history - I could see it was difficult describing the losses you've experienced.

[@nickritacco3032]

A true hero! Thanks, for another great show!

[@JC-kk5wg]

EXCELLENT INTERVIEW BY BOTH WHAT AN INTERESTING GUEST "SHYLOCK" KOCH

[@yumapigfarmer]

Amazing man, and the idea of a Naval Aviator and BN replacing a part on their aircraft is equally amazing.

[@shannono6051]

Thanks! Jell-o you've become a very talented interviewer speaking just enough to control the pace and help the guest tell their story. You guys put a lot of work into this and I appreciate it!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Kind of you to say, both in words and in deed. Thank you.😊

[@Crunch104]

History preserved and 2 great people getting to discuss it. Thank you.

[@Nghilifa]

This is quite possible the best one yet! Thank you so much for bringing Mr. Koch on.

[@craigraleigh8189]

Great interview! Much respect for Shylock! I was privileged to have served with VA115 “Eagles” from 1987-88. 🫡

[@davidsapp2230]

Very compelling interview between two real professionals. My Dad was a radioman/gunner in VB 74 aboard Midway from 1945-1946. He always said those were the two best years of his naval career. Thank you both for your dedication and sacrifice for this country!

[@richardcoggins739]

All I can think of to say is WOW what a heck of a story and a career as a Nsvy aviator Sir thank you for your service.

[@MADCATMK3103]

As someone born months before the fall of the Soviet Union, I find stories like these fascinating. I think about how important it is that firsthand accounts of what happened are saved and passed on. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this video.

[@yxeaviationphotog]

Fantastic episode J-ello! Absolutely riveted the entire time listening to John recall his experiences.

[@davidsmith8997]

Absolutely amazing interview and stories! Just an excellent person along with being a superb B/N!

[@hjr2000]

Much love to U.S. veterans from the UK side of the pond 🇬🇧

[@Tomcatter87]

What a great episode. That's the FPP how I love it. Thanks so much for sharing those stories!

[@singhson1061]

What a great interview and what a gentleman. Thank you Jell-O and team! He still remembers everything like it happened yesterday. And I totally agree with him as to how war changes a person. The only way we can begin to understand is by listening to their stories. So, thanks again Jell-O and team for this amazing interview.

[@rl64rl]

How is it I just found this wonderful podcast!?!? Bravo!!!!

[@renefoli3935]

Great interview. Thank you for sharing this great person's life in the Navy!

[@vspecnurr34]

Absolutely brilliant episode, through your hard work and the kind people giving their experiences,it's like being given the exact book you always wanted.thank you 🙏👌

[@johnhiz6239]

I was waiting for somebody to tell the USN / USMC A-6 story in Vietnam, Thank You Jello

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome, John. This is one of many stories, but a poignant one.

[@andrewareas-lloyd3507]

Great interview as always sir, i have an uncle who served on a destroyer in Vietnam and love hearing some of the stories he has shared. Thank you Shylock for sharing and thank you Jello for having him on.

[@bobthurston8451]

Wow! What a great interview. I hope you gave him a big hug when you finished.

[@iainbradford4254]

Outstanding guys, thanks for this!

[@dennissmith8947]

Fantastic! Great BN stories

[@robertdownie6135]

Always great to hear Vincent and his interviews. 😊

[@modscientist9793]

Some deeply emotional and gut-wrenching moments in this podcast. Thank you

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

For sure

[@steffey14]

Excellent interview as always.

[@davidschreiber9829]

Get all of these Vietnam era guys you can.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

They got some stories.

[@slammerf16]

It's all fun and games in peacetime. This guy is a warrior.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Exactly.

[@RCAvhstape]

Amazing interview. Good work, Jell-O.

[@daledassel5658]

True hero’s come in many forms. This man is one of them.

[@joehaggard9446]

This was so moving and amazing! Thank you for this.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome.

[@georgeburns7251]

Another great presentation. Thank you.

[@Topgunphoto]

Was that the start of the KC-130 that the Marines use today, I didn't realize it started that far back. This was an amazing story Jell-o, hard to listen to at times as it still hurts John so many years later.

[@stevenwalker4181]

This was your best podcast. Thanks for sharing.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🙏

[@maddthomas]

As a kid, I was a avid reader, around the time "Top Gun" came out/released on VHS, I read this book called "Flight of the Intruder" along with countless books about WWII and Vietnam. For some reason "Attack" pilots appealed to my child's mind, I could not decide if I wanted to fly A-6's or F-105F/G's. While my peers dreamed of being Tomcat pilots I wanted to drop bombs and kill SAM's.

[@havoc391]

In terms of the disrespect the government and certain citizens treated these American hero’s during and after their courageous service. Is absolutely disgusting. I know of nothing more important than these men telling their stories and getting their due respect accolades and thank you’s for their service to this countries history. These men won the Vietnam war and the abhorent politicians in Washington forced our demise in this conflict. These videos should be mandatory for any of our children’s high school education. We must be truthful through education if our young erst we risk losing the history and reasons for our place in the world . And sacrafices made for these kids and their future freedoms America affords them. Thank You to Shylock and all Vietnam aviators. Great video keep ‘em coming!

[@gregoryedwards8781]

This is intense and important to be heard

[@carlfischer4163]

Very moving, liked this episode . Thanks 👍

[@joevaccaro6655]

This is an amazing podcast, what a valiant A6 bombardier navigator 🇺🇸, I definitely enjoyed it. Thank you to you both for sharing and for your service. A couple of things I want to mention, Cunningham and Driscoll was on the carrier Constellation. The pilots that took out the Thanh Hoa bridge in Oct of 72 were A7 pilots of VA 82 Marauders flying from the Carrier America. What I understand, there were four them that hit critical points of the bridge with the walleye bomb. And I think Naval Aviators like Shylock don’t get enough credit for mining the harbors of Haiphong, those tasks crippled the North Vietnamese war machine by 85%. Operations Linebacker I and II effectively disabled North Vietnamese aggression and caused North Vietnam to bring favorable terms to the 1973 Paris peace accords. This is a question I have, I also like the movie Flight of the Intruder, but was morale that low among squadrons in 1972 as depicted in the movie? From the sources I read, the Navy was relieved and morale raised when they were tasked with Operation Pocket Money because they felt that they were finally given an objective to fight the war after 7 years of involvement. Also, in 1972 the services were free for first time to hit key infrastructure points and oil reserves in North Vietnam.

[@jimgutshall4855]

Great interview, thanks

[@Cornpops_Revenge]

Great show

[@dougstitt1652]

As always a good listen.

[@craftyjuniper]

Thanks John, for sharing your history and sacrifice. Now I know "the rest of the story". Enjoy your semi-retirement. - Lynda B

[@johnb7490]

That was very humbling

[@Roy-qn2ie]

Another great podcast, thanks for the stories but also for showing respect when it got tough to talk about things.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

You're welcome. Kind of you to say.

[@carterlassen1440]

Sounds almost exactly like the flight of the intruder story!

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Right!

[@mike-fe9wj]

Welcome home air sailor, thank you...

[@equaltothetaskaviation6440]

great show Jello

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

🙏

[@maytronix7201]

I love the A6... unless I had to pin the gear while it was spooled up.... That hurts the ear balls

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Be sure to check out the audio-only episode we had after this one featuring Larry Munns who accrued 5,000 hours in A-6s. open.spotify.com/episode/5eqhp0M03QSzIAMUUwFH7v?si=b6af7c2c3c1c44c6

[@chrissakal532]

I was wondering if the A-7 loss was Clarence 'Smokey' Tolbert.

[@jkoch8697]

Smokey rings a bell, knew him, but during combat flight ops, you go from one day to the next and suppress what happened yesterday and focus on staying alive today. I’ll go back to my log book and maybe will remember who we ran SAR for

[@indy500tabasco8]

👽👽👽👽ths for your services👽👽👽👽

[@squid0013]

Mr Koch sounds like the narrator for Discovery Channel Wings

[@ji3194]

Right! Fantastic dignified voice

[@knowahnosenothing4862]

I wonder why it was called Kiwi point?

[@jamesrice6096]

Just the plane captains? I guess. It always seems that way. They put you in the cockpit. They get you out. They do the D's & T's. I've seen squadron movies where they list the pilots and just the PCs in the credits. Kinda jacked up from a maintenance standpoint.

[@FZAM00]

could there be any better reminder that memorial day needs to be every day? not just one holiday? or any better reminder that the greatest generation can't nearly be gone? all reverence, thankful reverence, to the generations that turned back the world wars. but we have to know, have to believe, that this generation remains and proliferates, even as the enemies of peace proliferate by any means available to them. sometimes that same generation is truly present in reserve? maybe even still? thank you.

[@brentmayes]

Can you fly an F15 without hydraulics? If I couldn't get the gear brakes or speed brake to work I don't think I would want to go flying again.

[@louwvandermerwe178]

10 May 1972 was Duke and Willie"s day

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

👍

[@henrypuyi5485]

Jello you need to get Col Fred J. Cone, he was an A-6 driver during Vietnam. Navy Cross winner.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

Any idea where to find him?

[@henrypuyi5485]

@@FighterPilotPodcast last I heard he was a Professor at Embry Riddle in Prescott AZ. Folks at the Pima Air Museum might know

[@henrypuyi5485]

@@FighterPilotPodcast I dropped an email at questions@fighterpilot… with a phone number that could be current.

[@shannono6051]

Is it the Horrors or the heroes who overcome them that's the focus?

[@brockmiller574]

Both, because the severity of one helps to define the depth of the courage of the other. "I've got a mission to Hell." "The line forms behind me, Sir."

[@skyd8726]

Jello's beard has gone... Good news on flight status???

[@ginacalabrese3869]

Shylock is a somewhat derogatory term. It comes from Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice as that of the play’s main antagonist who is a money lender that charged excessive interest. Shylock is famously Jewish in the play, and is ultimately forced to convert to Christianity in the end as a form of punishment. The name is considered to mean "White-haired" in Hebrew.

[@FighterPilotPodcast]

That helps, thanks

[@darenkelly4430]

But Shylock defends himself immortally w/ 'Hath not a Jew eyes..?" Shakespeare insists that his humanity be acknowleged

[@omally]

Absolutely amazing episode. Thanks Gents 🙏