Horus Heresy Units That You Should Avoid Buying Without Good Reason

[@TB-ps6wc]

Don't you have a mastodon? It's terrible but it's cool you got one because almost no one has, that's a good reason to get bad units. Unique army!

[@TheOuterCircle]

Oh shit yeah I have one, I know firsthand how terribly awesome it is.

[@vulkantheprimarch500]

I really want one as a Salamander player!

[@blessedpeas]

I believe Macca also has the Sicaran Omega, which is the worst tank in his own words, but bought it because he thinks it looks cool. I've started buying up Mechanicum units, and got 3 Domitar and 3 Vultarax. Not exactly points efficient but they look cool

[@lonnakko333]

@@TheOuterCircle I have one in 40k for my Deathwatch army, it is only slightly better in 40k

[@fellipemartins4730]

Just for the hobby, I want that beautiful and useless Mastodon.

[@lonnakko333]

I have a Mastadon for my 40k Deathwatch army, it is useless even there, but still cool as all hell

[@boneman-calciumenjoyer8290]

@Finnegan Fox Great, I can't get the image of a Corvus Blackkstar trying to drop a Mastodon on the battlefield out of my head now.

[@daringdarius5686]

0:00 If you have time :) Short Answer: 1:55 Predator Tanks No 3:30 Mastadon No 5:15 Sicaran Omega Tank Please Rework this 5:40 Sokar Pattern Stormbird Hell no 7:09 Legion Falchion Super Heavy Tank Destroyer Ok 7:20 Legion Fellblade Yes 7:38 Kharybdis Assault Claw No 8:28 Legion Assault Squads Yes, but No? 9:28 Xiphon Pattern Interceptor If there is another flyer? Yes, otherwise No 10:50 Legion Deimons Pattern Whirlwind Scorpius No 12:08 Legion MKIV Outrider Squadron No 12:16 Deathstorm Drop Pod w/ Assault Cannons No, just no. 12:32 Legion MKIV Recon Squad No 13:32 Legion Rapier Graviton Cannon Yes, but you better be experienced. 13:57 Legion Rapier Quad Heavy Bolter No 15:06 Techmarine in MK III Armour No, with some exceptions, all should be avoided 16:28 Space Marine Air Defence Missile Launcher No 16:53 Legion Moritat's No, but not bad. 17:34 Legion Vigilator Care 17:48 Multi-Melta's No 18:55 Rotor Cannon No 19:40 Dreadnought weapon Quick Spiel 21:37 Contemptor Cyclone Missile Launcher Depend 22:08 Leviathan Graviton Flux Bombard YASSSSSs (Personal Bias) 22:26 CCerberus Heavy Tank Destroyer NOOOO 23:24 Acastus Knight Asterius Porphyrion is just better (I agree but KNIGHTS) 23:42 Termites + Ordinatus Depends 25:58 Mechanicum Thanatar Siege Automata Top tier, avoid the other versions 26:32 Sagittar If you are in a 5k+ points, sure. 26:50 Ulator Best description EVER xD got me on the ground my dude 27:50 Domitar Battle-automota watch vid 28:41 Karacnos Assault Tank No 28:48 Thanatar-Calix No 29:54 Myrmidon Secutors Eh, no thanks 30:35 Scyllax Gaurdian Automata Covenant Just no 31:58 Aurox Armoured Transport Basically no.

[@daringdarius5686]

I tried to format it but YT hates me. ahh well.

[@mikediamond1234]

You are a god

[@daringdarius5686]

@@bendanielson9628 just a quick bump! If you're a 30k only player ignore this. But if you play 40k (or both) just remember that with the release of 9th edition, GW/FW have promised to update the FW rules, and while they haven't said all of the models will be changed, it has been implied so everything in this video (or most of it) is subject to change. Just an fyi

[@beanusdeletus6300]

@@daringdarius5686 Perhaps they'll give the Mechanicum some of their heresy range, here's hoping.

[@warshak11]

I just don't understand why everyone is so worried about winning , 30 years ago it was just a group of guys playing a game now it guys trying to prove who is the alpha male with math and rules

[@briancline7349]

Well while I don’t play yet (but have followed the hobby on KZbin for a couple years and am planning on starting an Eldar army), Id say certainly winning isn’t everything BUT on on the other hand I don’t want to play an army where I just lose all the time either... that’s why I think SOME competitive thinking is important because yes it still is a game where you’re throwing your wits against an opponent and just like in Chess you have more fun if you can win some too. So yeah I totally get disapproving of people who are all about winning and that seems to be the only reward they get from the game (that likely indicates they are maladjusted or something in their lives), but on the other hand to me putting strategy into your list building and play to try to win, and getting to win some, is also part of the fun... or at least that’s how I’d imagine it would be for me.

[@bingus282]

I use world eater assault bois with apothecaries and crimson path, seems pretty viable to me

[@francois1473]

3 Quad Heavy Bolter Rapiers at 120pts (and toughness 7) is a pretty good choice imo. Imperial Fists do get to use their 'Disciplined Fire' rule with them, making them even nicer :)

[@TheOuterCircle]

That's buying for a specific reason, i.e my legion gives them sweet buffs (like Iron Hands ones being immune to boltgun fire).

[@teppest111]

if you near Connecticut when travel to the US go Groton and the Citadel a great wargaming and RPG store and been around since the late 70's . And close to Foxwood casino as well.

[@teppest111]

There is a large a gaming area in basement aswell

[@alecideas]

After purchasing a recast Mastadon, I must say it was worth it! Neat model.

[@uglyduckling81]

Predator with Sgt Kronus is unbelievably amazing with his predator. 2+ to hit with 4 lascannons and a hunter killer missile.

[@sevlow4035]

I've got a mastodon and I'm using it for one thing and that's transporting 19 termanators and a preator and in fine with it not being the best cause it looks pretty nice as a center piece and if it does get buffed in its survivability I'll be better off for it

[@Kill4Control]

Worth mentioning that Myrmiddon Secutors can take 2 grav weapons each, it's more expensive then secutarii hoplites but putting at 6-10 haywire shots a turn and leaving behind grav pie plates is going to make things die quickly They can also take plasma fusils, which combined with relentless is nice.

[@Thexeroxed43]

Yeah, this guys the first person I have ever seen badmouth them...

[@AKRex]

First of all - I subbed! Surprised I havent found you sooner, so its catch up time! Agree with everything and gonna make some additional comments on some points (pardon the length): Predators - I think they can be fun considering they aren't like CRAZY expensive. I personally like the looks of the executioner plasma tank and also think if played right you can have fun with the flamestorm preds as a salamanders or Death Guard player. But they aren't on top of my list, as a mainly Alpha Legion player I don't benefit from them and if I need armour on the table there are just better options (as you said). I personally like all trio of these super heavies plus a Stormblade and a Typhon. I actually have a Glaive for my Alpha Legion, gonna eb building a falchion for Iron Hands and a stormblade for Emperor's Children :) I am a super heavy tank fan in general, so it was in fact part of what attracted me to heresy - these badass things that also happen to perform well. I played as a glaive and played against a Glaive and Fellblade and those things are monstrous and lots of fun. I remember playing against an Ultramarines player who brought a fellblade and we would do like a super heavy "challenge" and anything that got caught inbetween would get obliterated haha For contemptors, I only use double ranged for a mortis with kheres assault cannons. For a regular one its definitely max 1 ranged multiple shot weapon or both fists/claws/chainfists with inbuilt weapons (be it whatever you choose, but I'd go with either melta or plasma, maybe grav). I dont know if its still the case, but wanted to point out that Scoria is just downright disgusting. Mech lists are generally brutal cause they do not run away and thus having a character in it that can destroy primarchs with relatively low effort is no fun for me either. I think we may need to have adapted rulesets for Eldar and Orks perhaps to justify some of the loadouts for marines to counter them as well? Cause if you only play with marines and mech, then things like rotor cannons (which look cool) are practically useless along with shotguns and etc etc you name it.

[@davetycho8330]

Personally I think that cyclones are a great back up weapon for contemptor dreadnoughts, especially if you arm your dreads with anti personnel guns or close combat weapons. Because your dread now has 3 weapons there is a chance you could lose that instead of one of the more precious arm weapons, and if you have twin fists/claws the cyclone gives you some ranged options. Is it super killy? No, but it gives options to your dread that you didn’t have without it.

[@roboutico]

The predator in comparison to the Sicaran has an advantage in bigger games: you can take him in squadrons! So when using one FOC, you can get 3 Sicarans or 9 Predators (or other Tank-Squadrons like Vindicators, Medusas, etc.)!

[@carlmanssonrosgren2153]

deiomos pattern predator are 76 dollars in sweden that is a huge price difference

[@elofgren1]

You might want to revisit your Getting Started video with Imperial Fists...IIRC you recommend the Bolter Rapiers.

[@nicholasgoff3917]

Well that’s because IFs buff their Bolter weapons making them worth running but only in that specific case

[@petersmith271]

Can you do a top 5 units of forgeworld right now for 40K and Heresy ... Most competitive/ideal load out... I was looking at the contemptor and just the weapons options I was lost.

[@foulmoodcentral2830]

How the hell are the datasheets and rules for this game so botched that a mastodon is worse then a Typhon...absolute shit. the mastodon model is gorgeous but knowing how much it costs for such a bad return in tabletop value should be a complaint towards FW.

[@codystewart68]

Imo alpha legion multimelta squads are good because you can infiltrate them into range to shoot stuff

[@ahzekahriman5840]

I really want more people to be able to play the game, but there are certain things that just prevent this. Codices, rule books, and the model prices most of all. I wish that they would slam all the rules into one solid book, without muddying it up. The 6th Edition (40k) was the largest book I can remember and its size would have easily fit most, if not all of the units in the game up until that point. Hell, if they sold the Rule book and all the codices in a seperate book (only need two books) I'd gladly buy both. You can print out force organization sheets that they put in the books and you're off to the races. The hobby is just getting a bit too costly and I firmly believe that the recasting and 3rd party market is only growing because of it. Even talking about recasts was taboo but now it's just "Yeah, they're recasts" and what are you going to do? Not play the game? Because those are the people that are trying to stay in the game. They've given their money over the years and either can't keep up with the prices by buying only a unit or two every so often. Recasts enable (much to the chagrin of GW) the common man to enjoy the hobby, if just in a small circle of friends. I'm not going to snub my nose at those that have put time and money into trying to play the game because there isn't an infinite pool of people to actually play with. In the age of apostasy, more and more people turn from the Emperor's table lamp and stop painting because their faith account is overdrawn. Does anyone honestly believe that these models are priced appropriately for their size? I just don't see it. So, Killteam it shall always be I suppose.

[@blessedpeas]

I think I will continue to buy some things from FW, and I have within the past year, but there is no way I could ever consider buying an army from them. Now I see FW as the necessary vendor in the case of things I can't get or doubt I would get from a recaster with good odds the casts will be usable. I am yet to find a recaster I would buy from again as no one so far has been excellent or simply had poor admin and didn't ever send my order :/ (I did get a full refund though). For example: books, transfers, unit upgrade sets, or units that are basically the same as buying the unit in plastic from GW plus a FW upgrade set (IH Gorgon Termies) I can rationalise why I would stump up for FW in the first instance with the assurance I can replace miscast parts. It really does come down to price, and actually it is nice getting the shiny FW packaging etc, as well as knowing it is a vote for GW/FW to continue supporting 30k. But the horrible price gouging and particularly practices that affect non-UK fans does sour the milk, making me constantly aware I have a very expensive hobby that will only ever be more expensive in future. Killteam is actually the only game I do play from GW, because of the low model count and taking the least time to play. I hope within the next few years to be playing 30k, but at the moment I'm just collecting units I love in case they go OOP...

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

I can't afford to get into FW.

[@JaySharp604]

Thunderhawk can be played in a 3000 point game. With some upgrades its about 700-750. But, you are correct, its not worth it.

[@JaySharp604]

I also think you're nuts believing breachers don't warrant a speel but assault marines do. Breachers are over costed and no rhino dedicated transport. For 5 points more you can take a 10 man assault squad all with combat shields. Two power axes and some sergeant upgraded, and they're much better than Breachers.

[@docvaliant721]

I do like how the mastadon looks.

[@williamtimonen6814]

Reed it as ”units you shouldnt buy, without a good reason” for some frigging reason. 😂 I kind of want a video thats like that now...

[@Appolyon]

The Aurox can also be taken by the Platoon Command Cadre, so it's not totally useless. At least those can be equipped with better weapons for all models, although they can't hold objectives. In my opinion you forgot two tanks in your list: 1. The Carnodon. It's de facto a Predator in disguise. For the Solar Auxilia it at least has some nice weapon options, but for the Militia it's a small anti infantry tank with max. AP4 competing in the same slot as Leman Russ tanks and Heavy Artillery. 2. Nearly every Malcador after the nerf. Not being Super Heavy anymore crippled this tank, especially if you gave it a Battle Cannon turret and hull mounted Demolisher Cannon.

[@Nikolectric88]

On a side note. Seen the price difference for the new admech tank? Its double

[@matthewjames8160]

Yo Macca, this is a bit off topic but I would love to see your take on some of the other tabletop games like Warmahordes and Infinity if you've had any experience with them.

[@jc5512]

19:30 in a game where virtually nothing has a below 3+ save and ap is all or nothing (ridiculous rule) one could argue that ap- is not significantly worse than ap4

[@Watheverable]

Love the heresy videos, keep them coming. Cheers from Portugal!

[@philipvonleipzig7057]

Oh man, who do we have here.. Well at least we have one thing in common I guess.

[@Watheverable]

@@philipvonleipzig7057 emperor protects!

[@philipvonleipzig7057]

@@Watheverable More of a heretic myself, but sure

[@MaxCooper242]

Id actually really recommend rapier HBs, 40pts! if you have the elites slot free its an excellent points filler and 120pts for the 18 twin linked shots just shreds people!

[@michaelhoule2134]

Awesome vid bro if you are ever in vancouver bc canada give me a shout... Beer amd horus heresy are on me 😍

[@dominionwargaming8638]

NGL The kharibdys was a beaut to build ( at least for me). I'm terrible at modelling. Can barely build a regular drop pod without a fuck-up. But the kharibdys took about 20 minutes of heating then 2 hours to build. Plus I got it from Uncle Mao so saved some shekels.

[@emile1365]

Oh man, one day I will get a stormbird, if only to use for games of Space Crusade or Space Hulk.

[@maxg8160]

Love your videos

[@Demortixx]

I love the mastodon and want one just cause so cool. But I'm also in 40k

[@dopeskone]

Picked up a unit of multi melta heavy support as counter to the super heavies I find army not being able to touch

[@dopeskone]

@James Espinosa RG rules allow me to infiltrate them in range of something important. As I usally do that with most of my army they won't left out in wind unsupported.

[@dopeskone]

@James Espinosa I just started painting them. So I haven't used them yet. Big terminator units are popular as well so this can help with that as well

[@commissarlugh1040]

"Fucl i have to many friends in the warrhammer comunity and need to downsize." Im fucking dieing

[@sheepfly]

Look at these prices, this is insane, everyone that buys from FW is crazy to me.

[@RocketHarry865]

Games Workshop really loves extorting Australians.

[@sirhektur7879]

Well, now everyone spams Contemptor dreadnoughts with Lascannons due to 5 Bs and heavy 2 str9 ap2 sunder for one arm

[@angry_zergling]

What the hell is with these prices? I've never played 40k (or any other tabletop strategy game) I just like listening to the lore while relaxing sometimes. I heard this hobby was 'expensive', but I had no idea. It seriously costs $1.8k for a Stormbird, $660 for a superheavy tank, $400 for a heavy, and ~$200 for a Land Raider variant? Are these super special limited edition 'for richboi only' units or does it seriously cost at least $1000 to throw together a beginner minimum army of a few tanks and dreadnoughts? Fuck me, I thought it might be fun to buy a couple models to put up on a bookshelf, but after seeing what they cost I guess the best I can do is try to find a used Squig from 1985 on ebay and just settle for that. =)

[@derangedcanary9924]

How about an armoured breakthrough list?

[@jht5225]

Or maybe I can buy, build and paint any models I like even though they might not be the best unit because I like modeling as a hobby that’s why I play Warhammer

[@Nebula_Ultra]

Hey Valrak.. Your Primarch is dead. (Chaotic Laughter)

[@TheOuterCircle]

I'm not Valrak. But I'd gladly chat with him.

[@Nebula_Ultra]

@@TheOuterCircle you a iron fister? Your primarchs dead too boi

[@Original-Yellow]

"All"

[@MrCitizen0]

For 30k horus heresyncan u help me with my alpha legion layout . I have 3 contemptors all magnetized weapons, 2 leveaithans magnetized , 10 of the alpha legion apecif8c terminators , 5 tyrant siege terminators ( for when i play hydra) , 40 tactical, 5 cata terminators magnetized, 5 tartaros magentized ( was alot of work for me to magnetize all these but i did to save money I'm getting skorr and alpharius I can buy whatever I need but I can buy. Next year I'm making a aons of horus army. I love your channel but I'm new to the game and would like your help I follow all your content and its helped me alot. I'll be playing 1k, 2k, 2500, 5k point armies for now

[@flare9757]

I would bring an Ulator just to bring it out of the bin, and see the other players face. Then follow it up with my Custodes army. Just have the Ulator be a scenery piece, or a background item. I mean to not use it. Just for a gag piece.

[@solhamer3502]

Honestly, who has got the money for a Forgeworld army?

[@FlayedFather]

you said 2 of the models I started my 30k Mechanicum with are bad......yet I won my first few games with them

[@TheOuterCircle]

There's always exceptions, but they don't prove the rule.

[@FlayedFather]

@@TheOuterCircle Karaknos and Thanatar Calix were actually my scariest models to my opponents, but I guess it helps that they need to roll almost perfect to even hurt them

[@jamesknighton4489]

Could you do the prime-marks next please?

[@guywatkins5590]

Have a little look in his videos mate, I'm pretty sure he's done one. He broke them down into 3 different roles/power levels.

[@jamesknighton4489]

Were they the individual legions vids?

[@guywatkins5590]

@@jamesknighton4489 sorry i cant tell you for sure, was a few montha ago I watched it. Heres the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6Wbk3-Nr7-rfcU

[@Shinzon23]

So, essentially, pretty much everything due to the ridiculously inflated prices?

[@TheOuterCircle]

I don't recall saying that...

[@highendtalent687]

26:51 I am fucking dying

[@user-bi5ev4tl4w]

There is only one reason. Recasters'll make same stuff for 10x cheaper, with same quality

[@TheStargateNerd]

And, on occasion, better quality.

[@Darthvegeta8000]

My god those prices. The stuff I can do for that money... Oo;

[@biguzi27]

Is that mod that turned ur discord into his personal hugbox still there think his name was DCP? Just remember u can’t spell DCP without CP #thetruthisoutthere

[@ravener96]

?

[@tdbnasc3]

Looking at those prices i would avoid all of them lol

[@peterbach1126]

basically, all the cool units are to be avoided.

[@krism.6598]

That’s GW, the coolest models are always cursed with garbage rules. See: Dark Eldar Mandrakes for the longest time.

[@comradepootis3665]

Colons are very important. Corrected, the video is titled "Horus Heresy: Units That You Should Avoid Buying Without Good Reason", for your information.

[@derfzgrld]

As if I had the money to buy from Forgeworld anyway... ;)

[@briancline7349]

Those vehicles are heinously overpriced... good old Forgeworld. 🙄 $679 for a toy plastic drill on tracks model... give me a fucking break.

[@Thexeroxed43]

So, in summery: Avoid 75% of units Jesus, do you even play this game? lol

[@exactinmidget92]

just dont buy FW because the prices are silly.

[@Gerendiell]

Sorry, but...one of your worst videos lately. Sure, some of your picks are rather bad in game, but you simply dismiss some hidden gems here. In my opinion you could use the reach of your channel much much better in pointing out this potent underdogs instead of telling people to not take units that are even now rarely used. I suspect that is in part because no one plays them, people buying armies therefor don't have them on their radar of potential options and thus the cycle begins anew. I encourage players in my group(s) to try out new things and for example recon marines have become a regular pick because of that. There are things that look underwhleming on paper but can play out greatly on the table and vice versa. And even though you claim the opposite I sometimes have the feeling, that you lack the experience (at least with a lot of non-standard stuff).