HORUS VS RUSS! FIGHT & AFTERMATH

[@ForceM1782]

Russ reminds me of Theoden here: „Lord, we can not defeat the armies of Mordor“ - „No we can not! But we will meet them in battle NONETHELESS!“

[@jenswurm]

Haha those subtitles... "Horace Looper Cow"

[@pascal9055]

His Appalachian name?

[@FatStarZzzz]

I Always put'em on!! Hilarious !!

[@KaiserAfini]

Its supposed to say "Horace Loopy Cow"

[@logangrimnar3800]

It's the Great Horse Looper Cow! The bovine who sends horses back in time to kill his opponents!

[@LARGO125]

Russ stabs Horus with the spear Horus: you.... Russ: what? Horus: you should have gone for the head!

[@yehudajames3334]

I guess it's quite randomly asking but does anyone know of a good website to watch newly released movies online ?

[@Anwyn58]

Would you take your brothers head?

[@HAHAd2]

@@yehudajames3334 no

[@JakeSmith-em5sh]

​@Yehuda James Hulu, Amazon, and Netflix aren't options in your location?

[@therichmond4020]

Horus lost to Russ because he was too arrogant, gloating and believing there was no way Russ could even hurt him. Russ was also given a weapon made specifically to kill Horus imbued with some of the emperors own power. Also remember that about a third of his legion died to ensure he would survive. Sanguinius would be fighting a horus not only imbued with the pantheons power but now humbled by almost being killed by russ, he would not let an opening like that happen again. Sanguinius would be fighting Horus 1 on 1, with no legion at his back, after spending who knows how long holding off the traitor legions at the eternity gate. Sanguinius also arguably has even more of a personal attachment to Horus than Russ, so if anything I think it adds to his sacrifice, he took on the most powerful thing next to the emperor, alone, with no bullshit instakill stick

[@jhskay556]

Also I believe Sanguinius wounded Horus as well or damaged his armor to the point to where the Emperor could exploit the weak spot and destroy Horus completely

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

Basically, they both lost because of plot armor. Horus lost because of the evil gloating trope, and Russ lost because of the inverse.

[@brigandboy1425]

Yeah, and then he died. It's almost like in warfare you should go prepared to win or don't go at all.

[@beipiaosaurus2379]

Sanguinius Have been wound before his fight Vs horrus no ?? if i remember correctly some demon butcher blood angel made sangui lost control and injure him. (i just started reading so i am not sure)

[@MetPolVago]

Sanguinius had a vision of his death at the hands of Horus, perhaps his vision showed him that the wound he inflicts on Horus is what ultimately lets the Emperor defeat him and the only way to inflict that wound is what leaves him open to Horus killing him. So no, I don't think it downplays Sanguinius' sacrifice at all.

[@OktayKus1993]

“You can kill me “, said Russ defiantly , " But You Will Never Win.." -> Words for the Gods Of Chaos 🤔🤔

[@wessthemess117]

I just love how passionately you tell us these stories

[@Masamune84]

If only Russ had similar feelings for Magnus as he once had for Horus

[@calumknight9178]

He did.... If you read the HH book on the burning of prospero from the space wolves view Russ thought he was communicating with Magnus via a psyker (he wasn't, but he didn't know that) and tried to convince him to stand down and go with him to terra.

[@tacotuesdayorbust22rockand41]

it’s like he could have just said something to magnus in the face but fuck nerds amirite lmao

[@Teflondon25]

Magnus fucked up the imperium more than anyone besides Horus and Erebus (fuck Erebus). It doesn’t matter that he wasn’t trying to, ripping open the webway and letting chaos into terra was devastating. He deserved everything he got and more..

[@Damo2690]

@@Teflondon25 But his Legion *didn't*

[@khartog01]

@@Teflondon25 Magnus was meant for the Throne and Horus knew this. If Russ took Magnus to Terra, the Emperor wouldn't have to sit on the Throne. Magnus fucked up and Horus took advantage of it.

[@MobiusPrime2028]

I’ll say the scope of 40K is so vast that multiple facets of a tale can emerge over time to completely change what we know. This means everything is canon until it’s not. Face it, it’s been like this for 3 decades. But in a way, it’s also how things are with the actual Imperium itself!

[@wolflordrho]

Great point. It's one of the great things about 40k... stories lose details over the course of 10,000 years! Let alone in the Imperium! So much room for future twists and turns!

[@alexandersalazar9122]

Everybody saying this doesnt count as a victory for Russ because of Horus was gloating seems to have the wrong idea about combat and strategy. You play to your enemies weaknesses not strengths, in this battle it would be pride. It's like saying you cant use feints or any other type of mental tactic because its "underhanded"

[@pascal9055]

Truth be told, let's use the only combat example most of us can kind of relate to: if you stun someone with a flashbang or stun grenade in Call of Duty or some other shooter and get behind them to try and do a melee kill or something rather than getting the kill, and they somehow kill you while you try and get the BM kill... well if you lose there, you still have to respawn. You died. The other guy didn't. In the end, that's what matters. Unless, of course, you're Vulcan.

[@rickconnolly5006]

Anybody not willing to use guile, and cunning to win a war probably won't wind up winning many...

[@yomanwtfisthisshit]

@@pascal9055 Your analogy would be more fitting to the Russ/Horus fight if the supposed flashbanged opponent actually just feinted to be incapacitated but could have acted and defended at any time, so even if you didn't decide to gloat and went for the kill immediately instead, he would be able to at least defend against it albeit maybe not go for the kill himself right away. Anyway actual hand to hand combat analogies would be more fitting and feints and counters are a staple in any real combat sport with many fighters specializing in it and winning championships that way.

[@bengeorge9063]

This battle was a ridiculous waste of resources for the space wolves. Nothing changed regarding the traitor advance on Terra, the Space Wolves lost their remaining strength and nearly lost their primarch.

[@theredstorm]

@@bengeorge9063 Finally, a comprehensive comment. A lot of people here are definitively biased in favor of Russ. Not only did he waste the power of.his legion because of his pride, but he missed the opportunity of killing Horus because of sentimentalism... Too Bad he didn't feel the same towards Magnus! Jokes aside, i Guess it's terribly difficult to do a cohérent character building when the end of the story is already writen

[@NIcolasbobbitt]

Sanguinius’s death is still going to be special. It’s going to come down to him seeing that if he does not die the emperor will be holding back to much and will be overwhelmed by Horus. His death is the Key to Imperial Victory.

[@kristopheralbright6149]

the sacrifice of the wolves was way more heroic than even the writer could portray, they threw themselves at him over and over knowing it meant death, in a blood fueled frenzy, i was completely caught off guard, almost in tears, they wouldnt be stopped, couldn't be stopped.

[@cyberpunkfalangist2899]

To think that nearly 10,000 years later that same spear would hurt another traitor primarch

[@MrFlashpoint1978]

Ragnar Blackmane throws it into the eye of Magnus as he's attempting a chaos rift in the Space Wolf series of books.

[@totallynotalpharius2283]

@@MrFlashpoint1978 that's the most Rout most badass thing ever

[@charlesballiet7074]

@@totallynotalpharius2283 poor Magnus always gets the short straw

[@____________838]

Wrong spear.

[@mikemarcotte5962]

@@totallynotalpharius2283 that's not even the best part. Later in the story Ragnar PUNKS Magnus, a Primarch, back through another gate by just FLINCHING at him.

[@tra779]

I think it showed just how powerful Russ was, for all of his boasting he could back up what he said. I do think Russ was right in thinking that Sanguinius would be too much for him though. Russ had the emperors spear and Horus took him lightly but the fact he could’ve killed Horus at this point is impressive still. I’m loving how these black Library books have made Leman a much more interesting character. wolfsbane was incredible

[@PresidentialWinner]

....it's all made up dude

[@UnRu1eD]

This right here, this shows how much Leman and Horus loved and respected one another. But, Though Russ had tried… Horus that existed was gone. Seriously, what story writing and emotion.

[@kingsnogaryen6292]

"I hear you, and I DEFY you!" ... damn, gives me chills.

[@philippbayer866]

I've never felt so pumped cleaning my kitchen. Love your chanel

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

I couldn't repeat what I had done to Magnus and (REDACTED)... I took pity on Angron, because he was mad... Horus though... He was my brother, longer than any others...

[@aitoriri1]

The Wolf King is a badass but he loves his brothers, like a pack

[@Leman.Russ.6thLegion]

@@aitoriri1 Aye, that ... Executioner is the wrong title. I only got it after #11.

[@psychedashell]

@@Leman.Russ.6thLegion I think your wolves are the rightful owners of that title, they had it before you were even discovered and until recently they had no hesitation in performing it

[@GentlemanBystander]

Don't pretend, Angron outfought you, and even if you'd ordered your astartes to kill him, you'd have never made it off the field alive.

[@TheSatyrblue]

@@GentlemanBystander Russ held back on Angron trying to help him see reason. He never went into that fight with the intention of actually harming Angron.

[@jimihaumann1591]

I have this strange feeling that when the encounter between Sanguinius and Horus happens, Sanguinius will have the upper hand for most of the engagement, until he too is shown the "uncorrupted" face of Horus and relents, enabeling Horus to mortally wound him when he is unbalanced - if Sanguinius then, in that moment, carve the legendary hole in Horus' armor, his sacrifice will remain as great as it has always been - this, at least, is what I am hoping :)

[@dingdong5212]

True strength is not having the power to do great harm, it is possessing that power and choosing love anyway. Russ made me a proud son on that day. I would fight for the Great Wolf on any field he deems fit. No threat is too large, no feat too hard. For the mighty Leman Russ we charge!

[@vinceA3748]

This counts as a solid W for Russ. He won that battle by outsmarting a superior opponent. This has to make Russ the most lethal of all the Primarchs. I do think they need to re-do the lore around Sanguinius. Strangled to death? How is that even possible? Wouldn't his neck just heal? Only a beheading would make sense.

[@lordcommissar7813]

Yah and primarch don't require much air... it would take a long time to strangle one

[@gabriluk81]

I really enjoy to listen yours video/ way to explain them. This one is my favorite, keep going mate and wish to support you. Cheers

[@Monkeyshaman]

It's an estimation on Lemans side and it says as much about his character as it does his ability. If anything it says a lot about what sanguinius goes through on the vengeful spirit which by that point is not the ship we saw in the beginning of the heresy novels, and neither are the personnel on it. It wouldn't surprise me if much of it is internal as well as he is essentially lucifer recast. Remember that he drove the first wedge between the emperor and horus and pointed him towards lorgar and alpharius all during the course of a single conversation.

[@spike.strat1318]

Hey! that was a very banged up Sanguinius...

[@henryviiifake8244]

Sure. But let's not forget that Sanguinius has _BULLIED_ greater demons of Khorne and an empowered Horus was a well-placed spear thrust away from losing to Leman (who was being told by all and sundry) and wasn't exactly fresh himself. Either Horus held back heavily against Leman or the writing is *atrociously* bad: how can someone who beat (a weary) Sanguinius AND leave the Emperor's ass in a coma nearly get killed by someone who is repeatedly described as being weaker than him? 🤔

[@spike.strat1318]

@@henryviiifake8244 If i’m not mistaken, i believe chaos was strengthening Horus as time went on. So the Horus that faced Russ was weaker than the Horus who faced Sanguinious.

[@darthbane1629]

Good Work as always, Keep them coming, Emperor Bless you 😎 !!!.-P.S.I Wish you More Suscribers ,you Deserve IT !!!.

[@wolflordrho]

Thank you!

[@Nyctophora]

1.1k this morning, 1.3k now - keep going! :D

[@mrbreck1]

Sanguinius had visions of what would happen if he killed horus. He saw himself hurl his spear through horus and kill horus. He also saw what the repercussions would be and knew he had to die. If russ had not stopped to try and save his brother when he struck him with his spear then he would have won, horus even said as much.

[@l.jacobs2836]

For Russ, and the Allfather. Russ may be a barbarian, but I think this shows that no matter how bruttish he may seem, he still has emotion.

[@ltjamescoopermason8685]

Next wolf throwing the spear is Ragnar Blackmain? Awesome episode bro !

[@bullbegger2281]

Yeah I got the impression Russ only won because of Horus' gloating etc, I never for a moment thought This was any type of victory for Russ. Also we know that sanguinius was already weakened from his fight with the Bloodthirster and the fighting during the siege of Terra, he wasn't at full strength when he confront Horus. I personally don't think even a full strength Sanguinius could beat a Chaos powered Horus but the fight would have been a bit closer.

[@bullbegger2281]

you do know what a hollow/Pyrrhic victory is right?.... You know you can win something and it not feel like a victory?.... So no it's not a contradiction, I mean come on how can you be that stupid?.... oh i'm a Dorn fan not an Angel fan.

[@squoblat]

I really hope that it's revealed that Sanguinius beat Horus, but in doing so he succumbed to the black rage and attacked the Emperor. The emperor destroying Horus' soul was a "no witnesses" situation.

[@KaiserAfini]

Might explain why there are two aspects of the primarch. One is the being of rage he became, one that all those afflicted with the gene flaw empower. The other is the brother the primarch remember, his sons honor and human across the galaxy venerate as a symbol of hope.

[@squoblat]

@@KaiserAfini I really think this theory could turn the 40k scene into something much more interesting. It would be a nice twist of fate in Dante's arc as well. I'd love to see Guilliman given a plot line that allows him the possibility of resurrecting Sanguinius, but the big E shows him a vision of what really happened before he makes the choice to bring him back.

[@KaiserAfini]

@@squoblat I think at this point both Big E and Sanguinius have become full warp entities, so resurrecting them is impossible. The closest that could be accomplished is to place a shard into a daemonhost or, with a massive amount of research and a very complex ritual, gather the shards into a full avatar. But that would be a mental image of them, a shadow of their emotional resonance in the Imperium rather than the humans, meaning it could be remarkably bad as daemons are prone to extremes.

[@DocBravo]

Russ infused with Khorne would be insane! Angron would be his little pup

[@GentlemanBystander]

[laughs in Night of the Wolf]

[@daijme]

Angron would beat russ with his hands tied behind his back

[@ZiGGi03]

@@daijme wrong !

[@ZiGGi03]

@@anonsaccount1562 when did angron beat Russ ? What book ?

[@ZiGGi03]

@@anonsaccount1562 russ losing on purpose isnt losing he took the loss to show a lesson he predicts what would happen to him Angron was predictably wild he said their only 2 that could beat russ as he says himself conrad Cruz and Sanguineus

[@imonlyamanandiwilldiesomed4406]

Love is the death of duty.

[@marcoflores4665]

Love the vids. I cant watch this one yet. Currently reading wolfsbane. Which is a bummer because I'm addicted to this series

[@allunt8170]

I have finally found a hardcopy of this book!! soon I shall enjoy full story!!

[@TheEyez187]

15:20 - When the Space Wolf marines are rushing Horus (and his maul), I just picture the first battle scene from LOTR: Return of the King, when Sauron's just knocking enemy troops out of the park with each swing!! >XD Did the Space-Puppies not have access to a teleporter; even if it just took Russ to a different part of the V.Spirit? I presume none of them were able, or had the foresight, to pick up the Emperor's spear and try, however futilely, to further wound Horus? I mean if you're set to face Horus and sacrifice yourself anyway, you could go for strikes you wouldn't normally attempt as they would leave you open? Where's a Cyclonic Torpedo when you need one. Detonate one by hand and utterly obliterate both ships, both legions, both Primarchs and rid the worst threat from the Imperium!?! Maybe Uncle "Dark Horse" Malcador should have gone with Russ!?

[@elasolezito]

Same here!! Also this came to my mind kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3LGdmh6qKqIqNE At 0:26 Horus trying to stop the space wolves and get to Russ (He's shouting them in Greek to be quiet) XD

[@bizarreworld2510]

Now tell us about how did Horus reacted when he first met Robute Gulliman

[@daverage4729]

Well, I burnt my dinner...which is what happens when you start watching Wolflord Rho video and say 'Just 10 minutes'... ;)

[@omgtwlol]

It could be that Sanguinius knew that if he defeated Horus, he would have possibly returned, so it had to be The Emperor to unmake him. And during the fight that he was prolonging waiting for The Emperor, he just run out of stamina, as we know, we wasn't in the best shape. That's why in my humble Sanguinius lost to Horus.

[@RA10H56]

Was the spear akin to the kinbrak anathema that erubus stole from the interex??i

[@masterofsteel]

Awesome listen! I got the audible version and the battle betrween the wolves and the sons as well as the primarchs was riveting! Tell me; what is the next book in the series? I want to see what happens not only to the wolves, but cawl as well.

[@mikecarusone]

What is the song that you use for your background music??? @wolflordrho

[@sultansuleman1046]

Children of the Omnissiah is the background music

[@sivartevafal]

Do a video on the Sanguinor going in Sanguinius’ place in Ruinstorm!!! Would love to hear your thoughts on it.

[@bohdiconnelly6136]

Whereabouts can I buy the audiobooks?

[@KrisToCool]

Classic rho! My fav

[@someguy4405]

Let’s be honest, without chaos interference, Russ is the strongest Primarch for direct combat.

[@camiloruizcastellar4740]

Reading about the heresy if i'm not mistaking konrad Curze had the biggest win rate in one on one primarchs fights, because of his foresight gift, even russ comments one time that he wasn't shure to be able to best him due to his madness, right now i don't remmeber all the combats, it would be interesting to compile them all.

[@someguy4405]

Camilo Ruiz Castellar Russ was designed to take on other Primarchs, and while he says he’s not sure he could win against Kurze and Sanguinius, he did fight a Chaos-empowered Horus and would’ve won if not for his own mercy. Then again, that was with the Emperor’s Spear, but one could argue the ES advantage cancels out Horus’ Chaos advantage, leaving Russ still likely to beat him in a direct fight. Sanguinius lost to Horus of course, which going off raw powerscaling would make Russ stronger than Sangy, but Sanguinius might have something or some fighting ability that would’ve helped him beat Russ but didn’t help him against Horus.

[@mikemoore2791]

Please do Sanguinius v Luprecal, and follow up with the Emperor fighting his traitorous son.

[@ffejpsycho]

When it happanes... that is..

[@sotiristhymodeas7055]

After reading Echoes of Eternity and Sanguinius killing Angron and the Greater Daemon too, your last comment about him earns even more credibility. I expect Sanguinius to die in Vengeful Spirit either because he is exhausted or because of psychic trauma. As presented in Echoes of Eternity he is the best fighter of the Primarchs ...

[@alexmartin3143]

Ouch?! Right?

[@franciscoviejo8465]

Where can I find the audiobook

[@drhapi5308]

Sanguinius killed Horus and fell to the first black rage before mortally wounding the emperor. The emperor hesitated not for Horus, his bastard traitor son, but for his Angel.

[@ricardogilchrist7345]

What music is this?

[@alphanoodle1877]

This is what happens when you fight a raid boss way to underleved but with a OP object that you were given by a higher level player

[@totallynotalpharius2283]

He just wanted his pack leader back :(

[@funandparty2493]

If I was Russ I would be like in the movie ''Gangs of New Yourk'' see this notch in your maul that is you. And swing home.

[@Harro150988]

Or give him no chance to recover and claim actual glory by achieving Horus' death. Kill first, gloat later.

[@elasolezito]

Looks at Horus dead in the eye "That's a wound." I love this movie nice reference...

[@TheTurbanatore]

Love this video

[@symz4665]

I don't think this undermines Sanguinius, but just gives even more credit to Russ.

[@Meartmans86]

Hmm. About Russ beating Sanguinius. Yes he might be capable of that feat. But Russ easily defeating Sanguinius says nothing of Russ being able to or not. At the moment Horus kills Sanguinius he is so coked up on warpdust that he is almost equal in power to the Emperor because the Chaos gods need the Emperor to die and thus gave Horus the full power of their blessings. Also, like you stated Sanguinius had a busy day and was not at his best.

[@Oceansideca1987]

Great tale !

[@grimnar1976]

I need this book!

[@Bruva_Ayamhyt]

"This universe will burn as countless others have burned before it" What did Horus mean by this?

[@eclipseslayer98]

Wouldn't it be funny if there were countless universe before Warhammer 40k, and Chaos has eaten every one of them? Then when they eat everything and slowly "die" from starvation, the cycle begins all over again in the next universe when Chaos reawakens. If that is what's implied, then I would personally be disappointed, as I've seen lots of universes that take the "universal cycle of fate" approach to world-building and story-telling I, unfortunately, see it as being kind of cheap and overused now.

[@jeremyw.norwood1453]

Have you ever heard of the "End Times"? In WARHAMMER fantasy? Though.

[@mikebott6940]

@@eclipseslayer98 The mere idea of a cycle of eternal recurrence is terrifying, isn't it ?

[@lordcommissar7813]

@@eclipseslayer98 eh honestly that's a Interesting take on it tho I wouldn't mind it

[@sultansuleman1046]

The spear of Russ, is a Metaphysical Blade, Valdor has one to. Valdor discovered that his spear is practically alive and when it cuts anything it says to him his enemies greatest weakness. Whereas Russ's spear cuts anything it reveals to the bearer the enemies greatest moment of happiness. So my question is since Valdor and Russ both have cut Horus what is Horus's greatest moment of happiness and greatest fear

[@thehandoftheking3314]

So is the Emperor's spear an anethme?

[@IgorPrototype90]

Might i ask you to reveal the music playing in the background?

[@IgorPrototype90]

@Aung Un'Rama Thank you. I found it in the meantime but i appreciate the response. Kill for the living, Luna Wolf! :)

[@graemealkins9138]

So he lost the spear????

[@TheSatyrblue]

Nope... The spear was lost by Ragnar Blackmane but then recovered again by Ragnar and remains on the possesion of the Space Wolves.

[@Mduvaa]

Wolf Lord, I don't think that statement is quite accurate. Leman stating he could beat Sanguinius. I thought he said he could NOT beat Sanguinius or Kurse. I don't have access to my audiobook/book right now, but could you confirm that and let us know? You're doing a stellar job. As much 30-40k lore that is out there, I find your Primarch perspectives, fresh and on the money. Keep doing what you're doing brother...

[@deadeyed373]

thats correct.. But he also said in this book he couldn't beat horus but he obviously did if you remove the plot armor. Russ WOULD and COULD kill any of the primarchs. full stop. That's what he was made for. Reworking established lore without retconing everything is what makes it messy imo. I dont think GW ever intended to get this in depth.

[@danielinskip8427]

Prophecy from Horus: This is the weakness that shall cause our father to fail (not exact quote). The emperor is only fatally wounded because he holds back because of his love for his favourite son.

[@justinheads5751]

> rogue one > one of greatest scenes in cinema history W in T actual F

[@thewarhammerworkshop]

Rogue 1 is the only shining light in an era of awful Star Wars films. The Darth Vader scene is probably the best scene in Rogue 1

[@justinheads5751]

@@thewarhammerworkshop yeah except no though. less bad =/= good.

[@johnnyscifi]

Holy crap!!!

[@sangralknight3031]

imagine what the movie will be like... when it is made in like.. 100 years.

[@davidburnett5049]

It does seem like the angels have been over shadowed by the wolves. I don't like that, though the story this way isn't bad. Does it make more sense over all, that Sanguinius would be more likely to get that dire wound on Horus, because of the spear's power? I do not know.

[@brigandboy1425]

Wolves hunt as a pack, Horus. Angron never learned this lesson. Apparently, neither did you.

[@testthewest123]

Angron learned that skulls belong to the skull throne. That's all you need to know!

[@Idontknowwhat2type]

I never really liked Rus and the wolves until this book. I loved Magnus so obviously I didn’t like the wolves lol. But this book humanized Rus a lot more than I’m use to and that made me feel for him. He only needed to wound Horus. And just as the blade that wounded Horus on Daven poisoned him, this to will weaken him. Maybe not now but I do believe this hurt him more than he realizes. At least this is my hope.

[@RockaGrand]

I understand how youre feeling. But, I must disagree. In battle, EVERYTHING is accounted in an outcome. Emotions included. As such, Russ lost. In real historical fights, certain skilled individuals intentionally provoked the emotions of more revered fighters and as a result, won the battle. Russ lost due to his emotions but emotions, often time, is a weapon as sharp as any sword to cut through armor.

[@CuChulainnwd]

Technically, Russ did make the killing blow, and the Big E's light burned through Horus enough that perhaps the uncorrected part of Horus had clarity for a moment until Chaos surged him up to heal. The difference between Russ and many of his brothers is, Russ knows when to STOP. Horus does not. Russ did win, but at the loss of his brother committing wholly to Chaos. In the end Russ still lives and Horus is dead as a door nail.

[@lordderppington4694]

So you could say Russ won because he had a big opportunity to kill Horace. But you could say Horace won because he literally had Russ to the point where he could just kill him, twice. But I think the real answer is that this was a tie. They both *could* have killed each other yet none of them succeeded. tbf that's thanks mostly to plot armor (they both had to be alive for the next story) but that's what I gathered from it. Horace has more raw power, Russ has better tactics. (ie his gambit in getting caught to make an opening) neither of them had what it took to finish it.

[@dolengea1523]

lu zelazny horus my friend HORUS XDD, but you are right, i see it as a tie as well

[@jeffhreid]

Russ was a darn fool to give quarter and let up when he had Horus at bay. Never give your enemy a chance to recover

[@madginger3634]

The Sons of Hor-Russ

[@brucewayne5281]

Ty

[@morningnapalm9963]

He wounds Horus with The Emperor's Spear and.. it only allows diminishes the chaotic hold on Horus for a few moments? What?! Or did it also have another lasting effect not mentioned here?

[@CuChulainnwd]

We will have to hurry up and wait and see. I think it may have implications in Horus' fight with Sanguineous but more so the Bug E himself.

[@Ulfhednir9]

Russ won Imho and the dream sequence prior was my key part of the book for me

[@canderoussnurd4265]

In a way it does cheapen the death of Sanguinius for Russ to have beaten Horus in so much as Horus to that point was an unstoppable force. This exchange takes away from the threat of Horus as now it’s clear that all that it takes to kill Horus is a weapon of the emperor and skill. If Russ can do it so can Sanguinius. If Russ can do it, so could the Lion. If Russ can do it so could Dorn. If Dorn can do it so could Ferris. And yet Ferris dies, Sanguinius dies, Russ almost dies and the Lion would mostl likely die because the storyline demands it. In my opinion this is contrived writing and it’s why the Horus Heresy should’ve been left as a mystery or at the very least vague. By showing this fight between brothers and showing how even Chaos powers couldn’t stop a standard primarch (all be it an unbelievably skilled and powerful primarch) then how could the emperor lose? How could Sanguinius lose when you see how he fights and how fatigue doesn’t phase a primarch the same as it does a human? Horus is a lumbering giant who is more of a power fighter. He is clever and he isn’t exactly a wimp but as described he is easy prey to the strategic mind. The fight shouldn’t have happened at all in my opinion as it’s just a way to cheapen the threat that is Horus. And I say this as a huge fan of Russ and the space wolves. If Russ has even the smallest chance against a chaos powered Horus then there’s no way the emperor, even holding back, could possibly lose. And if these two had to fight it should’ve been so one sided that Russ never lands a single blow and Horus appears more bored of his brothers attempts due to his power. Placating the fans with fan service is the death of good storytelling every bit as much as “subverting expectations” is. Is wasting your money on an all you can eat buffet at the cost of a juicy stake and fine whiskey, if I may be metaphorical.

[@bloodfartmoon2765]

I really didnt get what happend to the emperors spear

[@robbetorfs4093]

Later, Russ used it against Magnus on a planet named Garm. After that fight, Leman left the spear there for some reason, in a shrine. Later, Ragnar Blackmane threw the Spear in Magnus's chest when the Thousand Sons attempted to take the planet for a second time. The Spear was then lost but Blackmane returned it after finding it back on a Daemon World during his banishment.

[@BarrackOba]

Well Russ created the opening he was already accepting his death but he fought out of the talons grip and stabbed him with the spear nearly every villain gives a little speech before their about to kill the good guy and Russ took advantage of that window he was given he still “won” the fight.

[@davewacholtz5111]

Couldn't you argue that Horus beat Sanguinius because he, meaning Horus, is basicly pumped up on chaos steroids?

[@totallynotalpharius2283]

And sanguinius just got done soloing all the daemons in existence at eternity gate

[@Jinisinsane]

Haha the captions called him Horace LooperCow on my phone.

[@Ceenth]

He really didn't stand a chance at all . He was swatted like a fly. Only reason he had a chance to beat horus was because of the spear, not russ himself. In order to give sanguinius his due they simply have to let him hold his own against horus for a little while.

[@deadeyed373]

Russ himself was smart enough to use tactics and feints to create the opening, since he wasn't as powerful so he used unconventional methods like always to make an opening. If you have a tool, and you make it work, thats a win. Pre-existing plot makes this "who would win" messy. The 2 times Russ "lost" vs a primarch, Lion El & Horus, its because his humanity comes out. He stops fighting or going for the kill and laughs or in this case tried to save his brother. Strength, Skill and Power of a greater quantity doesn't mean autowin because in combat there is wit, tools, strategy and cunning. Both times he COULD have ended them.

[@LucidWanderer]

Horus was imbuded with Chaos power so yeah why not use the spear to make it an even fight.

[@brya9681]

I can't help but think of Jon Cena's theme when someone does the backbreaker in 40k. People do it so fucking often.

[@briHammer40K]

The book was incredible,i have the audiobook and your are right mate it was just unbelievable. And yea i think russ won and i also think that pre heresy horus wud hav fallen to the lord of winter and war!

[@wolflordrho]

Of course! I'm backing the Great Wolf in any fight! But yes it really is good. I feel like Russ in particular comes across really well in the audiobooks. Great voice actor.

[@absolute-focus]

Jonathan Keeble is the master of narrating. He has a thousand voices.

[@mycommentpwnz]

I would LOVE IT if the Sanguinius theory is true. Where he, whilst fighting Horus, is getting his ass kicked, and then, boom, he goes into the black rage. He then, shits on Horus, shits on everyone around him. Then, the emperor walks in. The emperor just goes on the defensive, hoping against hope Sanguinius snaps out of it. He doesn't, and the emperor is forced to kill him. It explains why the emperor didn't want to attack him.

[@Robb1977]

I think sanguinius' sacrifice remains significant because he actually dies fighting horus. He gives his last bit of life away for humanity, much like malcador the hero, and ollanius Pius.

[@absolute-focus]

Russ beat Horus beceause he outsmarted the Warmaster. No many beings in the WHOLE of 40k lore can say that. He took his arrogance and used it against him. He had the Spear which let him wound Horus but it did nothing to Russ' skill as a warrior. That was all Russ. The only failing of Russ is he went soft in the head. Russ could of killed a Choas Ascending Horus. Take the Spear away and Horus' power from the Chaos Gods and Russ would kill Horus. Russ was always the better skilled warrior.

[@albdamned577]

I think sanganinus was trying stop Horus, Russ was trying to use guile to do this one wound. Horus assumed that the latter was trying to do what the former did. If Russ were to try to stop Horus 1 on 1 (scattered via teleporting) he would have been broken just like sanginsus. I also really like the idea of sanginius risking his life to make an opening or make some weakness available for everyone else. That or defending a poor guardsmen being peeled alive by Horus.

[@Mark-nh7zg]

You missed the theory at the end that Sanguinius kills Horus, but is overcome by the black rage and turns on the Emperor. It's Sanguinius that fatally wounds the Emperor, not Horus, but for obvious reasons the Emperor tells everyone Sanguinius sacrificed himself.

[@LASTGUARDIAN-ln4kt]

THIS IS WHAT I TRULY BELIEVE 100% IT MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE AND THE BLOOD ANGELS ALL GOT THE BLACK RAGE AT THE SAME TIME SANGUINIUS DID AND HE COULDNT BE REASONED WITH HENCE WHY THE BIG E GOT MORTALLY WOUNDED HE DEFINETLY DIDNT EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN AT THE MOMENT AND HE PROB DESTROYED HORUS BECAUSE HE WAS LOST TO CHAOS AND HE WAS A WITNESS THAT THE EMPS HAD TO KILL SANGUINIUS THE WHOLE EMPERIUM WOULD FLIP SHIT THERE FAVORED SON WAS KILLED AT THE HANDS OF HIS FATHER/LEADER AND PIOUS EVEN SAID THE STORY HE TOLD OF THE FIGHT WAS NOT THE TRUE ONE THAT THE REAL STORY WAS BARBARIC

[@colinmack8655]

I thought the bit in talon of Horus was better when abbodon faces his clone farther.

[@Apostate_prostate]

Astartes need to make a video of Horus hunting Russ through the Vengeful Spirit. Hacking down suicidally brave wolfs the whole way.

[@LordInter]

i may of already said but its worth saying, the angel is all good, Horus is going to get more power before the siege and the angel is gonna be shattered!

[@ksc888]

Nah Horus was bloated by the power of the 4 Chaos gods, so Sanguinius could never have beaten him, even with this own magic spear of Telesto. Also the big E was holding back remember.....

[@richardch.4356]

This is what makes me like Leman Russ and the space wolves the amount people who talk shit about them and hate them makes me like them more especially Bjorn.

[@psychedashell]

I love the story, I hate the placement of it - it really ruins the pacing of other stories. A big point of Prospero was to tie up two Loyalist Legions during Horus' assault on the Emperor, made all the more pungent by Magnus determinedly giving in to the Wolves until the dying moments when he confronted Russ because his Thousand Sons refused to let the Wolves raze their libraries and faught back. Because of this Russ won quicker than expected and still might have made it to Terra in time had the Alpha Legion not attacked the battle weary Wolves and held up both the Wolves and the Dark Angels who stepped in to save them. Rather than seeing Russ as a bigger hero after this story I see him as more of an idiot. RUSS WAS ON TERRA. This book makes the timing that rather than getting to Terra too late to make a difference Russ was there, Russ made Terra after Prospero, decided he was of no real help then left on an ultimately and knowingly futile suicide/glory-hunting mission, then failed to get to Terra on time. It's also Russ' fault that a shipload of Dark Angels didn't make it on time.

[@konigstiger3252]

My head canon is he went home to see the seer after breaking mag spine but never made it to Terra. In desperation to do something he throws his legion in one desperate gamble.

[@lubomirac9287]

I don't think that Horus was a traitor of his own volition. I think that the wound by the spear gave himm a moment of clarity and dispersed the chaos corruption for a brief moment.

[@TheCastle357]

Hersey!!!

[@taylorwilson4909]

Bro i thought of the rogue one scene too lol

[@imapopo2924]

I dont think this under values Sanguinius at all simply because Russ had more favorable conditions and a simpler win condition with the Emperor's Spear. He just had to wound Horus while Sanguinius had to 1v1 Horus with no such weapon. And Horus would also be a bit more careful against Sanguinius because the Angel is more dangerous AND Horus nearly died against Russ.