Hot-Button Relationship Questions (Are You Being Selfish?)

In this episode, we hear about:
- A woman who challenges Delony on his comments about being a parent
- Delony’s perspective on dating in 2023
- A mom unsure if wanting to vacation without her husband and kids is selfish
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[@sarahg3725]

Regarding the first call, thank you Dr John for revisiting that comment you made and being open to correcting how you express your feelings. As someone who was really bothered by your previous statement “you will never know true love until you have kids,” I appreciate you saying this was an incorrect way to express this sentiment. I would add that perhaps instead of saying “you will never know…” maybe just say “I never knew my capacity to love until I had kids.” Or even “I never knew true love until I had kids.” Just keep these types of declarations as personal experiences instead of making generalizations about everyone. That solves the whole problem!

[@caroneast]

Spot on!

[@rigatoni4646]

Nailed it, I wasn't even really bothered by the original comment but the way he rephrased it seemed like it missed the mark.

[@kristenmosher834]

Agreed. I always wanted kids but never had them. Try to adopt but it just ended up being a closed door. And yet my best friend tells me that she has never met another human being with the capacity and willingness to love like I do... That I restored her faith in a human being's ability to love.

[@kristenmosher834]

Consider this, who did God trust to instruct the church in Corinth on love?

[@pilimtoro677]

Totally agree with this. Just make it a personal statement. If it’s your truth you have the right to share it, but when you generalize it and try to apply it to others it will most probably be misconstrued.

[@Cyanopteryx]

I think another layer to this is that some people don't immediately feel deep love for their child immediately after they're born. Don't get me wrong, I loved my son when he was an infant, but there was a real disconnect too. It wasn't until he was maybe a year old that I really started to feel that this love for my child was deeper than anyone else. It's incredible now how much I love my little one. But not all parents reach that level immediately, or even for a while.

[@CrystalM1917]

Or people chalk it up to postpartum depression/baby blues. I did have that instant love and sense of overwhelming protective instinct over my boys when they were born, however I felt disconnected at different times when I was pregnant with each of them... particularly my second. I also had difficult pregnancies. With my second, iwas afraid I wouldn't love him as much as my first son. Thankfully that went away soon enough.

[@bookishbooks5412]

Yes! I really wish this was talked about more. I remember that I felt an instant sense of protectiveness and urge to care for and respond to both my daughters when born, which I guess is a form of “love” but I never experienced the instant falling in love feeling that people told me would happen. The bond and deep connection which I more associate with that kind of love came over months of spending time, interacting and getting to know both my daughters characters etc. You don’t have to feel insta love to be a good parent.

[@debbielockhart7762]

I think for many of us it takes time to develop that truly deep love for our child - just nobody admits that. I didn't feel an immediate rush of love if I'm being honest.

[@magdarangel1289]

I don’t have children. Had trouble getting pregnant. I remember one time I told my boss I couldn’t work that Sunday because it was going to be Mother’s Day. Her response was “But you’re not even a mother!” That was so hurtful. I just responded by saying “but I do have one and I would like to spend the day with her.” But her response really upset me.

[@caroneast]

He's still saying that being a parent trumps all other love. Annoying

[@gjeffrey14]

That's because it's just true. Hurt feelings or not, the love between parent/child is deeper than any other love. It just is.

[@caroneast]

Love isn't quantifiable.

[@JP-ll8iy]

@@gjeffrey14 it does. Until I had my son, i was on cruise control.

[@carriefinding40]

It does though. It's animalistic. Sorry if that bothers you.

[@brendondowdy5651]

It's because it's true

[@coconutwater4531]

John fully missed the mark here and didn’t even know it since the caller was so kind and didn’t give him any pushback.

[@cynthiawarren9379]

When people have children they act as they have arrived as an adult, and as a divorced - now single with no children I am very happy single- because I prefer being single instead married, and miserable with the wrong person. I do not believe in having children outside of marriage; it does not provide for a stable home environment. Therefore, all of us each have different views on life. As a single person, I have a dog and friends- therefore not lonely. I hear my married friends and family complain about their spouse- then ask me why am I not married- probably do not want to be miserable like them. Happiness is a state of mind- follow your passions and dreams!

[@el676]

“You’ll never know your capacity for love until..” is still going to bother her. It’s still a blanket statement that implies you can only know the depths of love your capable of if you have kids. Just get rid of the phrase if you want.

[@JC-nz1om]

Ya I don't think he owned what he put out there. Cause what he described later wasn't the same as the message he gave. He kept trying to put what he said on "her" feelings.

[@coconutwater4531]

@@robertmcneely5202 hmm that’s interesting, then how is it possible that so many men are deadbeat dads who abandon their children?

[@ccollard22]

With the first call, I think it is totally fair for someone to talk about their reality and someone else to not feel less than because they are just in a different situation. However, I still think we can be conscious about the impact of statements like “you’ll never know the depths”. If a person never has biological kids, they will not know what it is like to have biological kids. However, there is no way for us to know how far they’ve explored the depths of their own love. That is a deeply personal, immeasurable concept. When talking about it, I think it is most helpful to own the limits of our own points or view. “I didn’t know the depths of my own love until I had a kid.” Or even “I honestly think there is something different about loving a kid- I think it’s deeper” if that’s what you believe. I think the “let it pass through you” sentiment is very important. We can’t control the way everyone talks to us - we will regularly hear uncomfortable, hurtful things. But if we are the ones speaking, I think it’s helpful not to position ourselves with language like “you’ll never know” - it doesn’t invite connection or express curiosity into another person’s experience.

[@sjfol44]

I had the same thought! One way to make statements less triggering is to express something with "I" statements instead of "you" statements. Instead of saying, "You'll never understand love until...." switch it to, "I never understood love (or my capacity for love) until..." That makes the statement about your own understanding instead of about the other person's lack of understanding.

[@mariahkindle4486]

@Corinne Collard Beautifully and powerfully stated!! 🙏🏾❤️ thank you

[@daegrun]

It’s ok. Parents need to tell themselves this to keep going. Different deep love. And also not better.

[@jackson5618]

Would it be fair to say that love with kids is simply another dimension of love? Yea it’s a dimension particular to having kids. But not less then or more then experiencing love outside of having kids.

[@valeriezaric]

Yes, I think he still missed it, even when he rephrased it!

[@cmdny11]

Respect to Dr. John for revisiting this. I probably would’ve been slightly hurt hearing that comment before I had children as well. But since I’ve had children, I know what parents mean by it. It changes you in ways you just can’t fathom before having children. So I don’t fault the caller for being hurt. But like others have pointed out, once your life changes (from health, loss, childbirth, marriage/divorce) you change. Love is absolutely possible before/no children but it changes with children. Personally, I also never knew love’s depths till parenthood, even though I am married to the love of my life. Just my own experience. I won’t project that onto others though.

[@claudinegarcia487]

As a 63 year old woman without children it definitely starts with parents. Being treated differently than siblings with children and also questioning and or dismissing your observation opinions. Thank you Dr for addressing this that no one talks to one directly about. Love your show…I’m a newbie!

[@carlycastillo883]

Sacrificing your body, mind, and soul for 10 months carrying a child and then (literally) pushing them into the world… I have never and will never experience anything more profound than that. My experience of having and loving a child doesn’t “trump” others experienced with love, but I have never been able to truly experience sacrificial love until becoming pregnant/a parent. And for me it has totally elevated the love I have for my partner, who I love equally to my son. It has also unlocked a whole new layer of fears I didn’t think were possible, but it comes with the territory of being permanently tethered to a human that you created.

[@whitneyw.7919]

Why was it considered sacrificial? didn't you basically conceive them to fulfill your biological purpose, enhance your own life, feel like you have "purpose" and community? I don't see how that's sacrificial.

[@gjeffrey14]

@@whitneyw.7919 Most of the enjoyable things that you do before having kids....you can't do anymore or as much after you have kids. You sacrifice your selfish desires for the care of another human being when you have kids.

[@coconutwater4531]

@@gjeffrey14 there are stats on this-most children are unplanned. Meaning most of the parents weren’t engaging in some profound, noble act. They just wanted physical pleasure with no protection. Hence the common term “Oops Baby” 🙊

[@carlycastillo883]

@@whitneyw.7919 There are far too many points to explain in a short message here, but essentially I gave up the ability to be selfish. My child will always come first. And I am okay with that. Mind you, this is not to say I no longer care about myself. I keep myself a priority still so that my son is getting the best version of me. My life is certainly enhanced, but I found my sense of purpose long before my child came into the picture.

[@neisci]

Sacrifice on behalf of who? When we make the decision of having a child we should be aware of what comes with it and impacts that we'll have in our a lives, at leas the basics. It's not a sacrifice, it's a choice.

[@samanthap.879]

All love is valid. Having a child is a different type of love just as loving your mom or a friend or lover :) it’s just unique and there’s more protection around it. This was a great episode

[@AndiAlexander1]

I completely agreed with your original statement (I’m a mother) and I deeply appreciate your willingness to hold other POVs and to change your language and to sit with the person who was triggered by it, and help her parse her feelings out. Excellent job.

[@Baltabak]

I felt similarly when I heard John say the thing about the baby in the previous episode, I think the wording should have been different from " you'll never know until" to "unrelated to your decision to have kids or not, having a kid shows you a great love you didn't know before"

[@melissam7067]

agreed. its not a good idea when people start lecturing others that their own experiences are paramount and 'you'll never know about this until you do what i did'

[@blah7694]

I think its the 'never' part that really made it thorny. I guess it's like that whole growth/scarcity mindset thing.

[@TheStivers1]

The absence of kids in your relationship does not mean the absence of struggle ❤ there is unknowing in the bond of a relationship that has been through struggle that others may not grasp. I have friends going through their infertility journey that I feel I would not survive with my partner through. Love is not necessarily a feeling but a grasping or understanding of the depth of a struggle and the ability to get through it. Period.

[@cathyosullivan718]

I think Dr. John is seeing this through his own lens. He is kind and sensitive so I’m sure he does feel this way about his own kids. I’ve known people who had parents who question if they ever loved them at all.

[@gammayin3245]

Making callouses against ignorant people and building walls to protect myself against hurtful people are my most treasured and effective techniques to maintain my sanity. You can always be chilly and polite. I do not feel a need to be friends with everyone because the world is filled with jerks, including family members. I'm not one to start a war, but rather walk away from conflict. This allows people to be their own selves - whether they are jerks or people of integrity.

[@sorshae.elsbernd]

After 8 years of struggling to have our first child, a co-worker told me that I wasn't a parent until I had 2 kids and had to deal with them squabbling.

[@mistyfrick8355]

There are some of us that HAVE a child/kids and don’t have that same feeling as you. I carried my daughter for 10 months then breastfed her and never formed that bond. I absolutely love her no doubt, it will however never be in the same way that you’re explaining. I absolutely respect your ability to circle back and have another conversation about this.

[@eatpigsnot]

being a parent does not make one a more accomplished human being

[@coconutwater4531]

True. Reproduction is literally a bodily function. It takes more effort and planning NOT to reproduce than to reproduce.

[@miepmiep3017]

Yes, it does, if that person sees it as a personal accomplishment. Just like it makes a hard working CEO a more accomplished human being if that's what that person wanted to accomplish. Stop putting mothers down. Furthermore, reproduction secures a species. It literally is a biolocial accomplishment. I don't even want to have children of my own, but stop hating, dude.

[@eatpigsnot]

@@miepmiep3017 not hating. i just want people to understand one does not have to reproduce to have a full life. and these days with 8 billion humans on the planet and no end in sight, reproduction is a negative. environmentally and in many other areas human overpopulation is the disease. everything else is a symptom

[@JP-ll8iy]

@@miepmiep3017 this is true.

[@shan1818]

No one can really know another's emotional experience. So those who have children can say, I never knew the depth of my capacity for love until I had children. However, you cannot say anyone else will never experience a depth of love that is akin to the love for your own child. You cannot possibly know another's experience of love in any way. You can't inhabit another person's body or experience what they experience. You can assume, you can guess, you can extrapolate from your own experience and say it is likely. But you cannot actually know. You can only experience you.

[@TomiaMacQueen]

Most adults have been through varying depths of love in different relationships, family, spousal, life partner, significant other etc., and most that have had children will agree that they have not experienced any love that compares to it's depth. We cannot possibly quantify another person's depth of love but we also cannot ignore the realities of those that have experienced it either. It's ok to just be ok knowing that you may never experience that particular type of love. We all have things that we will never know or experience. and it's ok

[@bryanfrombuffalo7685]

It's not a VACATION if you're not isolated from stress

[@marlynsantos9677]

This is great, thank you first caller for having the courage to speak up. I admit I purposefully didn't listen to that episode about "you'll never know a love like this than when you have a child" because I knew it would be super frustrating. I think it's very shortsighted and not very understanding of others experiences. Yes you can absolutely talk about your own experience but the reality is we are all different. Some parents don't have that deep connection and some of us without children have never had the desire to have kids and are totally and completely content. So big thank you to Dr. John for at least listening and slightly revising his blanket statement. But still I'd say as another commentary mentioned, keep to your personal experience and not a declaration for all humanity.

[@sharimiddlebrooks5375]

I was told by an in-law family member tell me I was a selfish person because I never had to learn selfless since I didn’t have children. While I understand what she was attempting to get at but it hurt so bad ! I had always had wanted children, and had tried for so long and was unable to have any. I was already so heart broken.

[@xavier7666]

Having a bit of a difficult time w/ the first call. It’s perfectly fine to be “less than” if that’s what you choose. The analogy of a woman carrying + breastfeeding a baby is spot on. I’ll never understand that + that’s fine. I can still be a good father + have a different sort of bond. If you opt out of having children, you opt out of understanding that closeness + you will never know it. If that statement stings, I mean… it’s your choice.

[@kellyeverett]

To each their own .. I’m a therapist and sadly a lot of people just don’t feel that connection with their child. As a society we shouldn’t be pressuring people to have children

[@xavier7666]

@@kellyeverett idk, I kinda disagree. Society inevitably pushes us toward whatever it seems to hav worked out as most valuable (whether that’s financial success, physical fitness, intelligence, having a stable family). To say what society should or shouldn’t aim for seems to place your own opinion above many generations of people who seem to feel otherwise. If someone wants to opt out of parenthood, that’s fine. It’s also fine that people who love them may be bummed. They’ll all live. Kid gloves are most likely not required.

[@kellyeverett]

@@xavier7666 I think the point I’m making is we shouldn’t let society influence our decisions. Nobody should feel pressured to have children for others or for the advancement of society. The reality is that a lot of people have children and regret it. What’s valuable to society is not necessarily valuable to the person. It’s an individual choice that people should not be pressured into. I don’t agree with your statements. You are essentially saying that it’s okay for people to be pressured into having kids because generations before have done it- which isn’t a good argument. We’ve made a lot of mistakes throughout history that should not be repeated.

[@xavier7666]

@@kellyeverett that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying it’s a bit presumptuous to assume You know what society should or should not push for. To go against the grain requires resolve. To suggest that it’s grains fault that someone’s having a difficult time is backward. If you choose a different path, you can expect resistance. And that’s perfectly fine.

[@libertyna933]

He's right you know because there is no other love that is unconditional like you have for a child. People can divorce their spouse or separate from family. You can't know till you know and you don't t have to have children. Nobody says you're less than.

[@hoops8534]

I think that deeper love can be explained as, we are no longer the most important person in our own lives. We would die for our children, if it came down to it. It’s very primitive.

[@Unspun417]

Thx for apologizing. I’ve never had kids but have loved until it hurts massively most of my adult life.

[@rockpaperscissors.]

Being a parent is a different kind of love. Nothing to do with less than, just different.

[@JusttRaquel]

FIRST CALL--- That comment should have been a personal observation. " I never knew love until I had my kids. " ..... People who don't have kids still have the capacity to deeply love. .. people who don't have kids ARE capable of loving. ... Many women and men who HAVE children are sadly incapable of loving them and end up hurting them. Sometimes fatally. Please keep it as a personal observation that YOUR knowledge/ capacity/ depth for love has grown as a result of being a parent... That sounds a lot better than looking for some defect in the caller to justify your mistaken choice of words. Still appreciate you and your content Dr. John . It's ok, you are human like all of us. ❤

[@velvetfaerie]

Thank you to the first caller + Dr J. Society's expectations can GTFO

[@Dixie8642]

I have deep appreciation for Dr. John and his willingness to revisit the first topic but agree with the wisdom of those who’ve suggested people avoid altogether statements like, “You’ll never know X until you’ve experienced Y.” I am one of countless women who was unable to have children because I didn’t find a quality marriage partner early enough to do so. Believe me; childless people who wanted children are PAINfully aware of all we are living without (and hopefully deeply grateful for our many blessings). We don’t need anyone blessed with children to drive home painful assumptions about what we lack with regarding the depth of our love. I don’t doubt having a child is a unique experience, but perhaps those of us who aren’t busy and exhausted with children are busy and exhausted discovering other ways to deeply love people. ❤️

[@carylary3716]

You have to drive your marketing team crazy. Its one of my favorite things about you. When you say "ya, you think its a good idea to call a dude on a podcast with your problems" cracks me up everytime!

[@harrietbaker4484]

That hit me too when I listened to the initial program and it hit me as off too. I miscarried many times before i had kids. I hated mothers day until then. The fear of never having kids left me feel like I could not fulfill my so called role as a woman in the church at the time. There is no place for those who chose not to have kids it feels like socially and in the church. Many do think you are selfish and not living up to your marriage to not have kids.

[@sarahharris2729]

Some men have difficulty opening their hearts and having their own kid sometimes does it. I work with children and have felt I loved a special needs child as if they were my own and I didn't know that was possible (some people feel that they'd have difficulty loving a child that's not theirs as much as a bio kid, esp. Men). Some people fail to bond with their bio child, moms and dads and neglect happens. I understand the sentiment but it over simplifies things.

[@kathigratton2286]

I feel her pain. Well, I did back when I could have kids. I decided not to have children and remember my mother not being upset, but I could see that it was hard for them to come to the realization.

[@mirosDV]

I am a woman and will never know what it is like to be a guy or to be shorter or taller than my height...I like how Dr. D said there's no less than. There's room in the world to hold the experiences of all its billions of inhabitants as unique. I personally thank God for that grace.

[@janemuir3546]

Thank you Sammy and Dr John. I get you Sammy. Not having children wasn't our choice. Dr John, I didn't realize how I was letting that saying flow through me (after years of processing) and I didn't realize how small my circle of those that pour into my heart is until now. Thank you again to both of you!

[@kimmontenegro2258]

Dating trends - men have been wanting to do text dating only for a while. Thought it was the 'pool' I was in. Then started to hear my girlfriends complain about the time they have wasted being digitally 'intimate'. Nope. Better off flying solo than with a ghost.

[@Inturvertle]

My issue with the first part is I don't think you can tell someone else what their capacity to love is. There are parents who love their spouses, parent, selfs or even pets more than their own children. The capacity to love is based on the individual and not the person or object of that love. The capacity for love simply does not begin and end at children for every person

[@FranLaVoix]

Dr. John. Thank you so much for your work that experience that you shared starting from 14:30 is the tool that I am going to use to potentially change my life and its outlook.

[@kindredspirit617]

As someone who is childless and has CPTSD from childhood abuse and neglect, I have a lot of issues with this whole "you'll never know love until you hold your own child in your arms" statement. This kind of statement makes me feel so thoroughly worthless, I cannot even put it into words! I am intentionally childless (because my CPTSD is so severe and all-consuming that it would make me a neglectful parent), and because mental illness runs in my family, and I'm too traumatised and not stable enough to be able to deal with that, that it is literally the kindest and most loving thing I can do, to deprive myself off this experience! And because of these choices I'm making, this statement then implies that I'll never be capable of experiencing or knowing the greatest form of love there is! But then I look at my own mother, and I see someone who didn't even love me enough to provide for my most basic needs (in all ways). So then the other side of this statement implies that I'm not even worthy of the kind of love, because I didn't receive it! I don't care how true or false this statement actually is (because I have no doubt that there are parents or there who wholeheartedly agree with this statement, but there are also parents out there who aren't capable of experiencing and agreeing with this statement). All I know is that even when said with the best of intentions, the person who said this statement from their heart is experiencing an ego boost (about their own relationship with their child), while completely ignoring the fact that there is a lot of ways people can be harmed by such a statement! I don't want to take anyone's voice from them by suggesting they shouldn't say things like this (because I will forever rejoice in the fact that there are kids out there experiencing this kind of love!), but I just think people need to be mindful of other people's experiences as well. The grandeur of your love for your child doesn't define whether or not others will feel that way with their own kids, let alone whether or not a child will receive that kind of love!

[@jamestyler3698]

Nobody should feel ashamed about not having a kid, but it does fundamentally change you. Nobody will know their true strength, or their true strength potential, until they work out. That's not to say people who don't work out are less than: but the physical reality is that they haven't reached their true strength potential. When you have kids, it forces you to be altruistic. If you're a good parent, youv3 chosen to unconditionally love and serve your children with all your life. And it changes you fundamentally as a human being. It's not that you're better than others: but you are different from who you were before.

[@JP-ll8iy]

Nicely said.

[@MostBoringNameEver]

Beautifully said

[@cmdny11]

Exactly.

[@thestorybehindthat5236]

What you're not considering is that after the baby making years of life those of us who never had kids do go on to live another 60+ years, the rest of life, and we find our calling and pour out the kind of commitment, love, and nurturing you speak of in different ways. But you didn't take that path, so you wouldn't understand it. You're assuming you would have stayed as you were pre children if you didn't have children. That's because you never got to know who you'd be as a childless person in 10-20-30-40+ years. You don't know what you would've experienced and how it might have changed you or given you a new depth of meaning you never knew before.

[@kathigratton2286]

I remember family member saying, you better hurry and have kids you’re getting up there in age And I always reminded them I don’t want them. Oh, are you sure you’re getting up there? You better do it now. No, I’m good.

[@tonyabroughton2531]

Great show🌞🌈🦋Thanks

[@Kimmie_anne]

Regarding the first call, I think some statements/comparisons don’t always need to be made. I have a close friend who has chosen not to have children. She feels those statements of never experiencing love until you hold your baby the same way. She and her husband are no less a family than my family of four, it’s simply a different dynamic. She would never make the comparison of how easily she and her husband can travel, have more disposable income, and how you can never experience freedom like you can without having children, because it isn’t appropriate. When we make comparisons, inevitably one feels less than, even if that’s not the intention. Sometimes things are best left unsaid.

[@bangintables]

another great episode

[@jessicanoble1834]

My husband is a mechanic, and I’m a bridge engineer. There are more things in my job that my husband understands, and I know absolutely nothing about what he talks about. He’ll explain stuff to me about an engine he’s taken apart and rebuilding, but I often just let him talk because I know it’s also another way for him to excitedly process his day 🙂 every now and then I learn something! Haha but not all the time

[@Khemtime]

First caller needs to grow up. Talk about taking offense for no reason other than choosing to.

[@melissamelton7908]

25:48 “More Marshmallows?” 😂😂😂

[@OceanTasker]

I think the way to consider the first discussion is to acknowledge that it was true for you, but it's not true for everyone. The birth of my child was a very traumatic experience for me. I don't have these same feelings as you. I also know that having my child very much changed my life, and I think that sentence is more applicable to the common child-bared group.

[@ruthiec.684]

My comment is in reference to the first call. When he says something it like that it is directed & customized to the specific person that he is talking to. Even though it can apply to a general audience, at the end he is talking to one person which has a particular story and going through an specific situation.

[@JP-ll8iy]

You are correct. At the end, he is talking to one person who has called in for their particular situation. We as the audience are just lucky to be privy to these conversations.

[@harrietbaker4484]

You will also know the level of heartbreak when something happens to those kids, as an inverse equasition. The world sucks right now. The life kids will have may be pretty darn difficult than in the past 40 years. Lots to think about. This is a serious decision and should be looked at deeply before peiple have kids.

[@nicoleee1980]

I’m late to the party, fell behind in watching the greatest mental health podcast ever. I can relate to both sides of the first call. However I side with JD on this one. Never thought i’d love my furbaby more. Then I had my daughter and never thought i could love another baby like her. Then i had two miscarriages and thought i couldn’t bare the thought of never having one more baby. Then by Gods grace my son was born. And can’t imagine loving either of them more than i do now. I also have a few close friends and family members that decided or had to come to terms with children not being in the cards for them for multiple reasons. Do i think they are less than? Not at all. When I express the joys of being a Mom of two, and also the woes do they feel like I’m telling them they are less than? No not at all. I would say, we are all human we’ve all made choices and have to do life with those choices. It’s not a personal attack if someone says you can never know love until you’ve had a baby. To me this means, this person is expressing the profound love/joy they’ve experienced and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s not a personal attack and it doesn’t mean the other person is being insensitive. It’s simply an expression of that particular persons truth. Why react to it at all? If you’re happy just being without children than take pride in that too. ❤

[@JusttRaquel]

Haha the 401 k question during the gyn exam.... being a medical professional, the exam is awkward and so we try to make conversation so there's not the awkward silence and sounds of medical equipment entering your body . . So ya. I get it from the provider's point of view... He was paying attention to the exam AND trying to make it less weird .

[@ItsJordiesWorld]

My take on the love/children topic: Who is ANYONE to tell me that I have never experienced deep love or reached my full capacity to love just because I didn't bear a child? I have deep and abiding love in my life and I won't listen to anyone tell me that the love they have for their child trupms any kind of love that I have ever felt. Yout don't know that I haven't felt true, deep love that matches your love for a child. I don't know how any parent can tell someone else they haven't reached the human capacity to love.

[@ItsJordiesWorld]

It's not deeper than my love. It's deeper than the love YOU had ever experienced. It not better. It's just different. 😊

[@blanketfortressofsolitude5270]

I like how her gyno was taking a look under the hood of her car and he said to her, "what does Dave think about index funds?" That's funny.

[@stardark9mc]

good stuff

[@kw3113]

I will speak for me. I grew up in a house where children were not a treasure to love but owned. I was never going to do that to myself and actually thought about having a hysterectomy at 18 if I could find a doctor to do it back then in the eighties. Got married at 20 to a man who didn’t want kids either. Fast forward seven years and due to circumstances and distance from authoritarian parents, we went forward and had our first child. When I held that little baby boy I understood unconditional love for the first time. I thought, this is how moms are supposed to feel towards their children and just like that so much made sense. My sister never had children because my mom told her not to and I do pity her on some level. Just be sure that the decision you are making today you want to live with at 60.

[@christinagutierrez-rendon7980]

Having a kid is almost like having your heart walking outside of your body. That's the difference.

[@parkwood6334]

Not knowing love until you have kids is false for several reasons. The number of indifferent, negligent, abusive or manipulative parents is horrendous. I think many times people who have children love them out of ego and not as a general love for humanity in general. People with kids give themselves too much credit for being superior humans when many times they are not. Parents run into problems because many times you set yourselves up as more superior to those who don't have children.

[@kathygreen2557]

140 comments so far! I hope nobody on the show feels that they should be reading all of these. :) This topic is a religious issue for some people. I would like to think there's less of that for most; but when I was young, the phrase "multiply and replenish the earth" in Genesis was a literal commandment. We were "counselled" -- pretty sternly -- that our job was to have a family. Large families were the norm, and were tacitly considered more righteous than smaller ones.

[@hansendesigns]

I see your pov about the metaverse, but maybe sometimes you have to take into account that you have never been facially ugly or somehow physically abhorrent so maybe the metaverse has its uses within a realm outside your experience. :) I have no experience in the mv myself (i had to google metaverse) but I imagine it to be interesting to meet and know someone inside first without all the social bs around looks. YMMV :)

[@jaimepersons]

Dr Delony staff, please put his KZbin channel name across the front part of his desk. Make the channel more noticeable. That would help immensely! It doesn’t have to be something obnoxious, just realistic somehow, make it easily seeable to new viewers. Dr Delony probably doesn’t want to have a coffee mug with his KZbin channel name, however that would help as well for new viewers to remember who he is and increase his subscriber count. Thank you for having a fantastic channel Dr Delony and staff, I appreciate your content and you are all doing a wonderful job! Wonderful life topics and interests for many!

[@Foxie635]

Havind kids change you temporarily. Everyone changes then in the end, they are who they are, kids just "change" them by making them forget for a bit who they are. If having kids truly changed people (for the better),then divorce would not happen. Just make a choice and stick to it, be married if you want to, have kids if you want to, etc. Just be.

[@spaRKLES88604]

I agree with “love can have different dimensions” like some of the comments. I disagree with dr John. For example love of a partner is a passionate love you want to please and love that person unconditionally with every fiber in your body. Love of your child is a selfless love. You sacrifice everything for your child because you love them and want them to be better off than you.

[@evajoyce1989]

I skimmed the comments, so hopefully this wasn't addressed already. If it was already addressed, I would appreciate being directed to it. Dr. John Delony, why are you no longer vegan? I ask, because I think it is good to ask questions to learn. Thank you.

[@brendondowdy5651]

Yeah you will ever understand real love until you have kids.

[@AllynHin]

I was so happy to hear that first segment. In the segment when John said we can't know the depth of our love until we hold our child, it made me cry.

[@brendondowdy5651]

Girl defines selfishness then asks if shes being selfish lol

[@Bond_MrsBond]

I just counter with, Parents, you will never know the depths of self fulfillment and autonomy, because you have to spend your life living for your kids. Also…. Some parents do not love their kids and some parents should NOT have been parents at all. Think of all the cases of abuse and neglect and all the kids in foster care. Dr. John sorry but that was really simple minded of you to say that.

[@krissypeters1517]

Maybe a love for the natural world and oneself first is exhilarating and soulful enough - personally I find it difficult to bring a child into our world today w the climate literally and figuratively - to each his own please ❤

[@AliciaMcIntire]

Girl, quit the MLM. Quitting will save you money and stress on a "business" where 97% of people don't break even.

[@elizabetha8565]

All I do is spend money on gas (like that's free) and MAYBE food. I think little buddy eats. I'd say ok I won't go if you never do anything for yourself ever again.

[@Cooniez]

I can understand why the first caller may have felt this way based on how couples around her who have kids have made comments, but I feel like she is being a bit sensitive because of how she feels about her and her husband's decision. If this is what she wants, then stick to it and who cares what is happening in other people's lives. They are simply commenting on their own life experience and feelings.

[@khchoi25]

Please stop being so sensitive and realize where other people are coming from. It can’t be the first time one has heard the phrase, “you’ll never know how deeply you will love…” It was obvious it was a personal statement bc Dr John HAS CHILDREN. He’s been there, done that and knows the difference. I have not heard anything different from people who do have children. They will die for their kids. Please don’t take it personally until you have your children and can disagree. - from someone who doesn’t have children

[@AnnabelNightwish]

People getting butthurt over a fact of the matter of kids being the one real unconditional love is hilarious to me. It just makes you sound insecure when you try to justify different loves compared to the love a parent has with a child, because there really is no true comparison. It sucks to some people, but it is what it is. As someone who's child free, i welcome the idea that there is other versions of love that i might never get to experience for my stance. You just can't try and demean someone who lives for and loves the children that they brought into this world, or try and say they're wrong in that regard; You'll only truly understand if you have a kid-- its a deep psychological connection that you can actually see in certain circumstances if you know where to look. It's okay to not have kids too. Y'all just sound salty.

[@lsf71]

Sorry but It's still not the same. Loving your children, is just a DIFFERENT love above any other.

[@Foxie635]

I don't understand the obsession to have kids or to say "my wife" like the stranger you just met is your end all. I like Dr. John but sometimes I think his show is a therapy for a very dysfunctional self/family. It's actually sad to see. Living is a choice to have kids or be married. Also, millions have kids and they all think they are special or their life is special but they all are the same. :(

[@thestorybehindthat5236]

Personally, I think I dislike that sentiment because I likely won't be able to have children and it implies I'll be some sort of partially developed human being for the rest of my life who'll never know deep love. There's nothing I can do about not having children. While people who become parents might experience this for their child and orient the rest of their lives around that love, the rest of us childless people go on to other callings in life and experience and develop love in ways parents don't. Paul writes that Christian singles are oriented to things of the father and not of this earth, and he advices his congregation that this is preferable, however if you have sexual desires you should marry but that married people with family will be focused on things of this earth, in Paul's opinion it is the singles who enjoy a level of connection with God others don't. So anyway, I say all of this because there's actual explicit biblical scripture that backs up my previous sentiments. Marriage and family is often made into an idol that trumps all things and implies those without are interior. That is not biblical or true. I might add, Jesus stayed single and didn't have children and he certainly had more love than anyone, and lived as a perfect man. So take that for what it's worth.

[@kristaw2686]

I empathize with her feelings, but she doesn't know what she doesn't know. Sorry, but it's true. That doesn't mean her life is any less fulfilling, rich, and full of love, but you really don't know what it feels like to love your own child until you have one. You just don't. It is what it is.

[@carriefinding40]

If you dont want kids great. But why try to deminish the love of a parent for their child. Sounds like she is internally battling with herself. She needs to quit the victim mentality. Get over it. Trying to liken the love for a dog or even your husband to the unconditional bond you have to your child is so childish. These victim people are so annoying.

[@ZenMelodicTrance]

😄

[@BG-nm5xt]

Dr. John! It comes from you, for one! "You don't know love until you have your first kid?" That discounts any other love a person may feel! Don't say those things!

[@joea9222]

This conversation is kind of silly. I get that there are tropes out there about "you don't know unless you have a kid" but are childless people really taking all of that to heart? Why would they even care if someone says it? This lady sounds more bitter about not having children herself. She's upset about blanket statements, but then says people that have kids don't really think it through first... so it's ok for her to generalize, but bad when parents (who have actually lived this life) do it? Interesting. It just sounds like another reason for people to be offended if you ask me

[@whitneyw.7919]

I don't think she's that upset.. she posted a comment like many do online several times a day, then i bet john's show called her several times asking her to come on the air.

[@BG-nm5xt]

No, no! Even your new statement sounds like loving a kid is better, deeper than another feeling someone may have. Don't generalize your feeling experience to the wider audience. This should be is a statement about YOUR experience, not anyone else's. You can't speak about what you think is the depth of someone else's feelings.

[@anthonydelgiudice3245]

sorry do not agree 42:30 your married you dont get to need space with two young kids and husband

[@heidimartin859]

Jesus didn't have kids and He loves better and deeper than any of us.

[@AKhardcore1]

That first caller has emotional immaturity. If someone tells me they're blessed by having something that I truly don't want, I don't infer that I'm "less than". I'm just glad that they're blessed. With kids, it's truly a case of not knowing what you're missing until you experience it. She is avoiding hardships, but she's also denying blessings that exceed the hardships in a majority of cases. She should understand that people will proselytize for parenthood because of genuine love for their children and a desire to see her experience the same. If she has kids, I bet she'll look back on this call with a bit of embarrassment.

[@whitneyw.7919]

Thank you for sharing, you are so superior

[@AKhardcore1]

@@whitneyw.7919 not superior, but blessed 😊.

[@JP-ll8iy]

Love this

[@Kevin.Grindel]

Childless people that are hurt by John’s statement need to morn the fact they will never feel what he is describing. Would you be hurt if an astronaut told you unless you’ve left the earth’s atmosphere you’ll never know what it feels like to be in space 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@Colombianminx]

Yes Kevin. If a woman can’t have kids after trying/miscarriages, then yes, it hits differently you idiot. 🙄 It’s insensitive.

[@heatherzloty7143]

That woman who doesn’t want kids is def going to miss out on one of the greatest blessings in life and seems like a decision made from fear or selfishness either of which are liars and thieves!

[@seadragon1456]

I disagree. Some people know they are lose canons but they don’t admit it. Maybe those tht don’t want kids know they are quick to anger. They may know they are capable of harming someone. So many people take their own kids out. If one doesn’t want kids let’s we should leave it there. Ya know?

[@corinnebodine3991]

Take five only

[@bryanfrombuffalo7685]

Get a cat together first

[@jtlegionnaire6310]

While there are parents that make parenting their entire personality, this woman calling in represents a lot of anti-natalists and selfish views. Maybe she's not this way herself, but there are many like her and it's growing.

[@Cyanopteryx]

I didn't get that at all from what she said. There is definitely a growing movement of anti-natalists, but I don't think most childfree-by-choice people fall into that. As a parent I completely understand and respect the desire to never go through the sleep deprivation or the other intense hardships that can come with having children. It's one of the reasons we are one and done. Frankly, I think it's a good thing if people choose not to have children because they know they wouldn't be selfless enough to be a parent. Good! Too many children are raised by parents who never wanted them and end up neglecting or abusing them. I'd rather all children be born to people who actually want them.

[@whitneyw.7919]

Why is having kids considered "not selfish"? Where does the idea come from? Seems like parents usually conceive children to fulfill their biological purpose, improve their life, feel "valued", community, support... "What are you gonna do when you're old if you don't have kids?"type of comments, just do it because we've been indoctrinated into our cultures stages of life, etc. I'm not really sure how any of that is particularly selfless especially in a world that many, including conservatives, lament

[@Cyanopteryx]

@@whitneyw.7919 You make a good point, but I think what you described really only applies to planned children. I would argue that the majority of children are conceived unintentionally. But for those conceived and kept intentionally, I'd agree it's ultimately for selfish reasons.

[@BSCTrainerRob]

She gonna end up having a baby then agreeing with John lol but she wont ever admit it

[@ShawnQuiQui57]

can't reproduce thanks for making me feel bad John