HOTD vs History: Murdering Family for Power

Aziz is joined by Daniele Bolelli of the History on Fire podcast for a non-live chat. Join the premiere at our usual time - Sunday at 3 pm.
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[@AllTheArtsy]

Such a great episode! I love the guest. Danielle brought out so many great examples, and really brought home the point that cultures and expectations of what is right and acceptable in terms of acquiring power really make a huge difference. The zero sum game has never worked, and yet we're all here still trapped within it. I hope we can arise to the greater examples of cultures who cooperated, did not war, and had prosperity, but we are seemingly sadly never going to...

[@marcfrancisteodoro7720]

Amazing discussion!

[@GeroldGarthcia]

Loved this discussion! Danielle is another of my favorite podcasters so your collaborations are especially wonderful.

[@herbthompson8937]

Westeros power struggles are tame compared to the Assyrians

[@DirtyDan099]

Keen for this topic! How can I listen to this on Spotify?

[@ThoriberoCaroli]

12:09 I mean, Gandhi was not the nicest person I can imagine. Rather, his portrayal as that in much history culture, is another good example of how we choose to write our history and have a specific history consciousness. Gandhi is to be admired for his non-violent ways of Indian independence for sure, but he also thought India should deindustrialize, that Hitler was an okay chap because he fought the British, shared many of the British contemporary views on Africans and black people, and had some questionable views regarding women and exactly how close you can sleep to an underage niece... (And also, he nukes everyone in Civilization...) Good video about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZfNZplmfLt_kJI&ab_channel=TheInfographicsShow So, it is more a question of, why do we choose to portray people as saints or satans, when most really are grey?

[@vaffel81]

Halvdan the black was the father of Harald Finehair. Also the name "Håkon" is pronounced "Hawk-ohn". The letter Å is pronounced like the english word awe

[@Mooljim]

Hey Aziz, do you still maintain contact with Gemma? Please please ask her if she can unprivate her game of thrones videos?

[@dcell2216]

Yeah some of historic royals grew up isolated and... entitled. They probably never really had good opportunities to self reflect, they weren't able to. Even if one would have the best intention to push something, but it got shattered because of something a "casual" person did.... they might not have been equipped to push that thing that would be considered a good thing, while a "casual" person who had been trough those kind of human hardships before would have had more opportunity's to adapt. In modern day we can see certain countries where people still struggle because of certain religious limitations that affect it's people. Rights some take for granted, but are still oppressed by people in power be it a government or religious limitations. Luckily for people around the world, people have better ways to fend that off now, with the internet and global options enabling direct communications, just to create safety and awareness when human rights are being violated. If there's countries with laws and rules that might be like 50 years behind us, trough the internet people can edjucate and get a wider worldview and catch up decades faster then without internet access.

[@rsync9490]

Ahmed I was the son of Mehmet III. So the seniority succession change happened after Ahmed I's death at a young age(27). 27 years after Mehmet III isn't very long actually. And yes it was Mehmet II who instituted the fratricide law and Mehmet III ascencion happened 150 years after, that is correct.

[@sarahjanewilliams6011]

There is a tv series about Mehmet 2 called Ottoman it is really good. There are a few academics talking every now and again but it doesn't distract from the show. Season 1 is about him conquering Constantinople and season 2 about his fault out with Vlad the Impaler. I didn't even realise that they were contemporaries. I'm fussy there are no dragons, magic, elves,dwarves or witches and that program has to be one of the best. I hope they make another season.

[@rsync9490]

@@sarahjanewilliams6011 I was aware of that historical fact when I read about Vlad years ago. Found out he wasn't evil for no reason. I did watch the docudrama and I found it very pro Ottoman sadly. Ottomans were despised in the balkans, Caucus, and later in the Arab world for a reason. I understand why Mehmet instituted that law to begin with considering the civil wars his father had to go through and how that left the empire vulnerable and stagnant. I also read and watched the fall of Constantinople earlier as well. Besides his campaigns in italy, and his war against Skanderbeg, I don't know what the subject of season 3 would even be about.

[@dookieshoe2905]

Wow, Danielle on HoW??

[@TheKefelder]

what is his channel?

[@marcuspacheco3815]

Discussion even relevant? The targaryens were pretty murderous toward each other. I'll grant that but in the original game of thrones not many people kill their own family. Tyrion kills his father, who was to be fair pretty terrible to him and his brother and sister are definitely upset with him about it Jamie less than cersei but who else kills their own family? You guys act like it's a central theme to the show but more so it's about rival kingdoms fighting each other. It's kind of the nature of civil war. Stannis doesn't kill his brother, it's his witch to be fair he's a traitor and stannis is still pretty horrified by it. The Starks don't kill one another. Most of the Lannisters don't kill one another despite them being horrible to each other. No one in any other house really kills their own. They go after each other all the time but not so much one another. As far as historically its more common before elections. That's the difference. Let's say the eldest son in the family is insane, or maybe just really violent or ill in some capacity. What else would you do? You kind of have no choice. Unless the king is allowed to choose his or her successor you got to do something with that person. Putting them in prison is too dangerous so you're kind of out of options if you want to save the lives of everyone else in the Kingdom.....

[@AllTheArtsy]

you really typed all of that out when the discussion is inspired by House of the Dragon..... 👀

[@dromankass8655]

There was a bit of kin slaying in GOTs, for a range of reasons. I'd say Euron was the greatest culprit for doing it for power. Here are some examples I can think of: Euron Greyjoy killed his own father and about three brothers. Jon Snow kills his aunt as you said, Tyrion kills his father, who had already sentenced Tyrion to death. Stannis is responsible for Renly's death despite the Red Woman doing the actual magic. While in the books his daughter is still alive, and I'd like her to remain so, surely either her mother or father will burn her in a magic ritual as in the show. Dany didn't lift a finger to save her brother (although he had it coming). In the show Circe killed her uncle and cousin when she took out the High Sparrow and destroyed the Great Sept.

[@marcuspacheco3815]

@@AllTheArtsy no I used talk-to-text.... But yes, those are my words and thoughts. That's why my name appears next to them.