How a Spy Thinks #64 [Nerf the Diamondback?]

[@hobg5786]

"you can miss shots for exactly 0 damage" yes I'm familiar

[@aliteraldumpsterfire672]

Oh cool didn't know that XD

[@SOMEONE-pr8qp]

Wow no really!?!?!?!??!!?!!!?!!!??!?!?

[@kompatybilijny9348]

@Siberian I think by "miss your shots" he meant missing because of random spread

[@eziostorm-senpai2932]

People die when they are killed.

[@kompatybilijny9348]

@@eziostorm-senpai2932 At least usually

[@Chud_Bud_Supreme]

5:49 TFW you go Pybro but forget to equip the homewrecker

[@blescax]

xD

[@geckonerd3734]

Son of Tiamat That's what I thought too! 😆

[@arrowtt3364]

Or the Neon Annihilator

[@toere7146]

@rahul L Everyone did that sometime in the past xd

[@dukem8774]

I use neon annihilator cuz I don't have the homewrecker

[@springlz3892]

Honestly I don't think any items need their earned crits taken down. Diamondback and Frontier Justice both require you to deal with downsides that the stock or even other side grades don't have to, such as reduced damage or clip size. The kritzkreig loses out on the game-changing 8 seconds of invulnerability that could allow a heavy or soldier to push on the sentry gun with little risk. Even the buff banner loses out on the passive bonuses of the other horns, and leaves the soldier with little close range options beyond taking splash damage. All 4 of these just require you to do your normal job, but give you risks you wouldn't have with other options, and reward you for taking that risk and doing your job well.

[@Querymonger]

The Phlog

[@banannixx2907]

Your point at 8:47 is what I agree with most. The normal shotgun compared to the fj is about a shot's difference from each other. To be fair though, the best way to take out a frontier justice engie is at range. If you get that close to him knowing he potentially has a couple of crits ready for you, then it's your own fault for poking a bear with a stick.

[@dolan3623]

MMMPPPPHHH well the phlog had no airblast so have fun with rocket spam

[@F.M671]

@@dolan3623 yes freaking 4-6 soldiers every match on casual. And even airblasting costs way more in terms of ammo usage to rocket spam.

[@trettery4438]

the diamond back downsides are practically non existent

[@c4rd764]

I use the diamondback a lot and with my experience with it I say it can potentially be op if used well but the base damage and accuracy cooldown really throws me off in close quarters combat. I find myself with 3 crits and i miss 2 of them in close quarters combat especially with scouts.

[@MrPaladin]

100% this

[@aTypicalMushroom]

Ive only used it to finish people off, or kill razorbacks. Personally I have to flick with it to actually hit. Sure its good, but yah I agree

[@midend]

the issue is that it scales too heavily with aim and doesn't change the playstyle at all

[@c4rd764]

Kev Cheng accuracy and the fact that I sometimes panic during unexpected combat I unintentionally spam the fire button.

[@MrPaladin]

every first person shooter scales with aim.... aim is the core function of every fps

[@newman6434]

I remember years ago i was an engineer on dustbowl and kept dieing to a spy, and my 12 year old self let him know of my frustration. He then told me my personal favorite quote about this game. "If people are frustrated about an enemy spy, then the enemy spy is doing his job. It doesnt matter how many deaths he has or how well hes doing. Frustrating the enemy gives your team a huge advantage." This is true because if your mad your more likely to make stupid mistakes such as going pyro and spamming your flame around spawn, instead of holding back a push or, more likely, chasing down a spy right as the enemy makes a push.

[@justfriccoff3363]

Dying*

[@AfterthymeGaming]

I love that. Thank you for sharing. I might change myself for the better after this.

[@greatfrsky6847]

0:47 pro demoman 11/10

[@SawBlade289]

I personally don’t feel like either the Frontier Justice or the Diamondback really need any changes as it stands right now. They’re both weapons that reward the player for playing strategically and thinking ahead, and I like when games try to give players the ability to do things like this. Sure, being killed by a crit can be annoying, but I know that using both of these takes skill, and the downsides of both can be crippling when they don’t have access to the guaranteed crits. The tradeoff is fair, and both weapons should be left as they are. Any buffs/nerfs to them would make them too strong or too weak I feel.

[@ludwigiapilosa508]

NO. 40 - they both work on a similar mechanic but the Diamonback is WAY worse. Engineer can't appear out of nowhere to use his stored crits. Nor can he farm easy crits from unattended buildings in remote sections of the map. It's the revenge mechanic combined with the spy's ease of mobility that's the problem.

[@c0smo709]

Diamondback is for no-skills, with frontier justice is ok as it is, also it has damage falloff which means no sniping for you. I've used diamondback back when I was bad and I must say it's just too easy to use it.

[@boinqity4621]

my only problem with the diamond back is that unlike the frontier justice, which you can see glowing from across the map, the diamondback is much easier to hide the cries, unlike with the frontier justice, where it takes skill to hide the crits

[@slovakweeb460]

@@c0smo709 yeah because we will listen to some ambassador tryhard. This is the most bullshit thing I ever heard about DB.

[@triangulum8869]

but with engi you get crits when your building dies spy gets crit with no consequences for doing stuff he already does

[@chaoticlyfe]

As an engine main I can say... I normally die And then my gun dies so I don’t get the crits but when I’m alive with minis it’s easy so yea both are strong weapons when used as the developers intended

[@phantom_ii4594]

mini sentry can mini crit, I'm an engine main to and I just learned it. Use it to your advantage

[@phantom_ii4594]

You have to use the wrangler to mini crit btw

[@dolan3623]

Patrick Carroll what about piss?

[@Stefanga44]

Engine main Me:What building are you?

[@Garbo_trashcan]

@@Stefanga44 Dishwasher 100%

[@LPwatcher]

The first time I ever saw the diamondback my first thought was "This gun is useless." My opinion today is slightly less harsh, but I still think that it is a below average weapon. It is only useful for those spys who are able to go on extended kill streaks and those spys can still kick ass with any of the spy primaries. I have never understood any argument that it is overpowered.

[@MrPaladin]

^ this Plank of Wood gets it

[@DrpanProductions]

Even though I don't play spy I never feel a crit kill on me by an enemy spy is unfair. It's not like the damn ambassador where I would get pegged across the map while just walking. The last point on payload badwater was so frustrating getting picked off right out of spawn. To make this gun work you have to kill, get saps. You have to earn those critical shots. Not just aim and shoot. the complaints in my opinion are not well founded

[@hmmm4989]

@@DrpanProductions Do you have any idea how much aim the ambassador required? You had to hit a tiny little hitbox if you want to get an across the map headshot. Spies had to put in thousands of hours perfecting their aim to use it.

[@thebushbros6626]

@@hmmm4989 It was still more annoying since it just required game and not being experienced in spy.

[@hmmm4989]

@@thebushbros6626 They earned that skill. Remember that.

[@dolfeeen]

That base damage penalty is really what people forget when they say it’s OP, it really is only situationally strong

[@flytrapYTP]

I disagree. But I don't want to nerf it. I want to change its base crit mechanic. I have an idea of how to do it, but I'm on a phone, so maybe later.

[@dolfeeen]

Anthony I’d be interested to hear what you think

[@trives425]

Why not give it minikrits and make it fire slower and give it a damage boost

[@SophiaLilithUwU]

-15% doesnt matter much when you get a 3x modifier regulary.

[@Pheminon1]

Except that the amby also has that downside. But, you get crits for aiming and using skill, whereas you don't have to aim with the diamond back...

[@StickMaster500]

I don't think its OP since it does have downsides that make you want to consider using the Stock Revolver over the Diamondback like its -15% damage penalty, but I can see why people say its OP since you're getting easy crits for just doing what a Spy normally does which is what makes this revolver very powerful. If it did needed a nerf, I would say change its crits on backstabs and sapped buildings to mini-crits or giving it a -20% slower firing speed, like the Ambassador.

[@crono100lv8]

If valve nerfed them probably you'll only get crits by sapping or backstabbing and the damage will be reduced

[@Aarsakis]

StickMaster500 you again ? Oh my god

[@MrPaladin]

yep, that 15% with no random crits takes a 2 shot kill to a 4 or 5 shot kill... In the world of a spy, that means you are DEAD

[@woldenbe3298]

weren't u saying it was OP in another vid? smh

[@st4tictf2]

I can deal with a slower firing speed and no random crits, but mini-crits are a no-go nerf. Valve has forced our clan of spies to fight with BB guns, blunt knives (failstabs) and malfunctioning watches.

[@Stefanga44]

Mr.Paladin:You have no tauntkills with this weapon Me:Well,which goddamm spy revolver has a tauntkill

[@cryojester]

That sharpened volcano fragment pyro hitting the dispenser. They tried to help, and that's what matters.

[@MannspreadVonCarstein]

5:48 Bless the pyro trying to remove sappers with the sharpened volcano fragment

[@bigmama999]

0:48 when that demo blew himself up tho. :))))

[@-tweeomoz-1786]

Mr. Paladin, the only one who can change my mind about the Diamondback

[@baburahman4102]

Legend has it, if you're early enough, Mr P will grace you with his presence....

[@MrPaladin]

huh? wut?

[@baburahman4102]

:3

[@baburahman4102]

IKR, he's pretty swell

[@mikelorme635]

Beep Boop yep

[@trystanreadman1764]

i think the frustration is something along the lines of "why should i die nearly instantly because of that F2P engie that the spy was bullying a minute ago? why should that guy have an impact on OUR fight?"

[@user-ni7hm3ry8o]

Diamondback downsides -You feel bad when you use your crit to enemy who had like 6 health -with crits You can't shoot buildings when engi will come and destroy sapper -It covers half of the screen if you don't change viewmodel fov

[@VulkusTheFirst]

THE ONE AND ONLY MR. P. ALWAYS UPLOADING WHEN I'M IN SCHOOL.

[@traviskrebs7551]

Vulkus i feel you man

[@thetrashman3626]

I don't think the frontier justice needs a nerf because it's smaller clip size makes it a lot less spammable. If the diamond back were to be needed maybe they should give it the damage fall off the amby got (except with a bit more range) or a penalty where there is an accuracy drop when shooting farther enemies.

[@MrPaladin]

you forget, engineer has a secondary pistol and a sentry meaning that the FJ does not need to be fired until it has criticals.

[@thetrashman3626]

MrPaladin That is true. In that case if the FJ was nerf I suggest that engies only get 1 crit per sentry kill, and maybe none for an assist. That way the engie has to work harder and play smarter to earn those crits.

[@MrPaladin]

or don't nerf either ;)

[@thetrashman3626]

MrPaladin That sounds about good. (I still wanna use my aussy frontier justice)

[@godofacow-8808]

ALL items are strong if used good, its a challenge to use your own weapons that good. If you get killed by a "useless" weapon handeled by a pro, it means it isn't useless. Random crits are fair and balanced (Even though i think they're not against me)

[@MrPaladin]

they are balanced, but not fair ;)

[@tazee1827]

Spai sappin my sentry! I put it in google translate and it translates to: “Theres a spy near here, I need some help!”

[@MrPaladin]

My dear sweet engineer... you had me at SPY!!!!

[@tazee1827]

MrPaladin Nice!!

[@tazee1827]

MrMiguel211 ya

[@theodorehildebrand-faust3771]

The main problem with the Diamondback is that it punishes good players for their bad teammates. You could be a hyper-spy-aware soldier rocket jumping around, but because your gibbous engie keeps putting dispensers in weird places, you get killed by a spy who just had to aim for a giant hitbox twice. In competitive, the diamondback makes taking out combos too easy and is therefore banned. In casual environments, there are more players so picks become less significant. Other than that, the Diamondback just isn't fun to play against. I think a good change would be to make it not able to fire while disguised, and while undisguised, give the wielder some visual effect. Maybe something like a glowing eye.

[@DontPanic42Towel]

I've never heard people calling it OP, I think it's balanced well enough. Maybe if they're making a change, just drop the crit max? Not really likely a spy will get--and keep--35 crits in the gun at one time

[@MrPaladin]

all the stored crit weapons can do that as the max... but if the spy has backstabbed 35 people or sapped 35 buildings you have more problems than his crit count on your hands.

[@cync9591]

lol

[@oldieal7032]

Rebuttal time! *"You get no random criticals. You have to earn those crits."* Random critical hits shouldn't even be a thing to consider in game balance. Ideally, random critical hits should just be turned off entirely. Weapons that have the stat "No random critical hits" on them do so because of a few reasons. a) The weapon can earn critical hits or mini-crits. b) The weapon is a "sword". c) The weapon is a Sniper primary weapon or a Spy melee weapon. d) The weapon would deal an atrociously broken amount of damage if it could get a random critical hit (think about the old Enforcer, which could get 144 damage random critical hits, 1-hit killing numerous classes at any range). e) The weapon deals no damage. *"There is a base damage reduction of 15% and that means that if you have no criticals stored, you will take many shots to kill anyone at full health."* A 15% damage reduction isn't that much on a Revolver. That just reduces the base damage from 40 to 34 and the maximum damage from 60 to 51. Every class other than the Pyro, Demoman, and the Heavy will all take the same number of hits to kill. The maximum damage per second of the Revolver is 103.45 DPS, while the Diamondback deals a maximum of 87.93 DPS. For further comparison, L'Etranger deals 82.76 DPS and the Ambassador deals up to 73.28 DPS on bodyshots and 107.37 DPS on headshots. When firing critical hits, the Diamondback actually manages to deal up to 175.86 DPS, which is higher than every stock weapon in the game besides a Level 3 Sentry Gun (max of 178 DPS), the Stickybomb Launcher (max of 240 DPS), and the Minigun (max of 540 DPS). Even so, these three weapons require very specific situations to deal these maximums. The Level 3 Sentry Gun only deals this much DPS if the Engineer is standing right next to the victim when the rockets explode, though the large attack interval of the rockets cause this value of 178 DPS to not be entirely accurate of how much damage it does in a short period. The Stickybomb Launcher requires the Demoman to be at a precise distance from his victim and to perfectly lay stickies beneath their feet. The Minigun requires the Heavy to be within touching distance of his victim to do 540 DPS. Most other weapons lie around the 150 DPS mark (the Flame Thrower deals up to 173.33 DPS, the Scattergun deals up to 168 DPS, the Grenade Launcher deals up to 166.67 DPS, the Shotgun deals up to 144 DPS, the Rocket Launcher deals up to 140 DPS, the Pistol deals up to 129.41 DPS, the Level 2 Sentry Gun deals up to 128 DPS, the SMG and the Syringe Gun deal up to 120 DPS, etc.) *"You don't earn crits if the buildings are destroyed while you are dead."* *"No crits if your Sappers are removed."* *"You can die with stored crits and they are lost forever."* *"You can miss these earned shots and deal zero damage."* These are all user faults. *"If the enemy team has no Engineers at all, critical earning potential is going to be significantly lowered."* Fortunately, the Diamondback is the only crit-storing weapon to be able to get crits through two different methods. Also, this means that the enemy team is at the huge disadvantage of not having an Engineer. *"This gun is loud."* It doesn't exactly mean much when you kill every class in 0.58 seconds (1.16 seconds against a Heavy or 2.32 seconds against an overhealed Heavy). You also have the option of standing far away, which trades this downside for having to fire a bit slower. *"You should not use the Diamondback to assist your Sapper in destroying a building."* Technically, you should - by shooting the Engineer trying to remove the Sapper for 102 damage. *"If the enemy uses any critical protections, such as the Vaccinator or the Battalion's Backup, your crits are nullified."* This is somewhat a user error if you attack an enemy with critical hit immunity. At this point though, all of the Spy's primary weapons would become somewhat useless. Against a Vaccinator bullet Uber, the stock Revolver would only be dealing up to 15 damage per shot, while your Diamondback would only deal up to 13 damage at best. Against the Battalion's Backup, the Revolver will be dealing at most 39 damage while the Diamondback would deal up to 33 damage. Naturally, the Spy should be attempting Backstabs under these circumstances. *"There is absolutely no taunt kill with this weapon."* What? None of the other Spy primary weapons have a taunt kill, either. EDIT: This is in comparison with the Frontier Justice having a taunt kill. Regardless, having a taunt kill isn't really much of an upside as it leaves very vulnerable to attack for a few seconds in exchange for a very unlikely one-hit kill. This vulnerability could cause you to lose your critical hits. Also performing the taunt kill with the Frontier Justice would leave you with one less potential victim for your Sentry Gun to earn you a random critical hit with. *"The Sapper causes players to become more aware of your presence."* The Spy should be sapping buildings, regardless. It's part of his job. If you really don't want to sap buildings, you can still earn critical hits via backstabs. *The entire comparison to the Frontier Justice* There are quite a few major differences between the Diamondback and the Frontier Justice. -The Frontier Justice is only effective at close-to-medium range, even with the critical hits. It deals between 18 and 180 damage depending on how many pellets hit. Meanwhile the Diamondback's critical hits deal 102 damage regardless of the range. -The Frontier Justice actually has a notable downside in comparison to the Diamondback. "-50% clip size" causes the Frontier Justice to be significantly weaker than the Shotgun while it has no critical hits and it also stops the Engineer from going on a complete rampage with many stored critical hits as he will have to reload often. Meanwhile the Spy is free to fire off 6 shots in much quicker succession. -The Engineer cannot mask his critical hits. The Spy's disguise makes it so he can surprise the enemy with a critical hit without a moment's notice. -The Frontier Justice only has one way of earning critical hits - through Sentry Gun kills / assists. Meanwhile the Diamondback has two methods of earning critical hits - through building destruction / assists and also through Backstabs. -Earning Frontier Justice critical hits requires a lot more setup than it does with the Diamondback. The Engineer needs to have enough metal to construct a Sentry Gun, construct the Sentry Gun, and then it needs to kill somebody or assist in doing so. Higher levelled Sentry Guns are more likely kill enemies, but this will require more time and metal to create. On the other hand, the Diamondback can get a crit within an instant via a Backstab or it can obtain one in 4 seconds to 8.64 seconds via sapping enemy buildings. -The two methods of gaining critical hits with the Diamondback are both considered to be the Spy's job. They are things that he should naturally be doing. Meanwile, the Frontier Justice does not do this. The Engineer's job is to keep his buildings alive. Allowing his Sentry Gun to go down, either by enemy doing or his own, creates an opening for the enemy. The Frontier Justice only gives the Engineer the critical hits when it is time for a risky play, of which the "-50% clip size" further increases this risk. -In terms of "losing the critical hits", if the Engineer's Sentry Gun goes down while he is dead, he has lost his Sentry Gun AND his critical hits. On the other hand, if the Spy's Sapper destroys an enemy building while he is dead, he may have lost the critical hits, but the enemy also lost a building. -Finally, the Engineer can get at most 2 critical hits from a single player. The Diamondback can get 5 by killing an Engineer and destroying his Sentry Gun nest. *Minor comparison with the Kritzkrieg* Although the Kritzkrieg does reward the Medic with certified critical hits for doing his job, like the Diamondback does, the similarities end there. -The Kritzkrieg takes on average between 32 seconds and 64 seconds to build, while the Diamondback can gain its critical hits in an instant. At an absolute best, the Ubersaw can allow the Medic to gain a full Kritzkrieg charge in 2.88 seconds. -The Kritzkrieg does not give the Medic using it the ability to perform critical hits. It gives it to his current patient. This means that even being able to utilise the critical hits from the Kritzkrieg requires two players to work together for it. -Once the Kritzcharge is used, it is in effect for 8 seconds. Meanwhile a Spy with the Diamondback can pick and choose to use his critical hits individually. TL;DR: -The Diamondback's only real downside is mostly negligible, while the upside turns it into one of the most powerful weapons in the entire game. -The Frontier Justice and the Diamondback are on entirely different levels of power. It's completely plausible to say that the Frontier Justice is balanced while the Diamondback is overpowered. EDITS: -Fixed a few errors. -Added TTK for an overhealed Heavy. -Upon searching through more comments, I found Mr. Paladin's reason for saying that the Diamondback not having a taunt kill is a negative. Updated my response.

[@MrPaladin]

To keep it brief (as most youtube comments are, I'll reply to your TLDR: "The Diamondback's only real downside is mostly negligible, while the upside turns it into one of the most powerful weapons in the entire game." Only if you consider every shot a spy makes with it is a crit, and to do that they avoid taking non-crit shots factoring into the overall performance of the weapon and slot. Then you also assume every crit a spy gets is both on target and that the target is sub 102 hp. otherwise spy is burning more damage than needed. "The Frontier Justice and the Diamondback are on entirely different levels of power. It's completely plausible to say that the Frontier Justice is balanced while the Diamondback is overpowered." But if you talk about the power of a weapon you must compare it with items of similar traits... the FJ (and some say the PHLOG) are the only other weapons besides soldiers banners that gain perks for performing the classes role so they must be considered for comparison and contrast. I see your edits so I'll clarify the reason for including taunt kills: Spy has no good taunt kills but the FJ has one of the best in the game... it is for the lolz.

[@oldieal7032]

I'd say most Spy players would be fine with using up their 102 damage critical hit if it means saving your life. The Spy also has the advantage in this case of being the only class who can see enemy health, meaning that he can tell at a glance whether or not The Soldier's banners all come with the notable downside of you not having either the Shotgun to defend yourself better or the Gunboats to make you more mobile for a lower health cost. Thus the Soldier now has to move around like he would without the Gunboats and he will spend a lot more time reloading his Rocket Launcher as he has no Shotgun to fall back on. The banners also require 600 damage to charge (480 for the Concheror), which requires at least 6 good close range rockets to hit (5 for the Concheror). The Phlogistinator comes with the downside of not being able to extinguish teammates, reflect projectiles or push back enemies. The Phlogistinator also requires the Pyro to taunt, which completely stops his movement to both allow enemies to flee and also allows certain enemies to prepare a quick kill on him as soon as he comes out of the invulnerability. Personally, I do feel that the Concheror and the Phlogistinator do need a bit of a rework. The Concheror charges far too fast, it works far too well on a lone wolf Soldier, and the health regeneration almost always allows the Soldier to survive two direct Grenade Launcher shots (The Battalion's Backup does too, but it doing so through +20 max health shows that this is intentional, whereas surviving because you healed a single health point between the two shots doesn't). Meanwhile, the Phlogistinator's damage output has become a bit too much with the new Pyro changes in the Jungle Inferno Update. I also feel that it should gain the ability to extinguish teammates, as you should not require the Manmelter to do so. Some players may have the Phlogistinator and not the Manmelter and should not be punished for this with the inability to extinguish teammates. Perhaps a 40 or 50 ammo extinguish would suffice, as this would allow players to extinguish, but it would be very expensive. Then if a player had the Manmelter, it would be more beneficial to extinguish with that as it is free, continuous, and it rewards you with a critical hit on top of the health and the saved teammate. Back to the comparison between the Diamondback and the Frontier Justice, though. What I'm saying is that the Diamondback has so many advantages over the Frontier Justice even when you are comparing them as "weapons which earn stored critical hits", the Diamondback ends up being either on par with or better than the Frontier Justice. And this leads into the main problem - the Diamondback is either on par with or better than the Frontier Justice. We've been comparing them as weapons which store earned critical hits, but we've not looked into them as weapons as sidegrades for their stock weapon. The Shotgun is meant to be a weapon which is strong in combat. It even has a higher DPS than the Rocket Launcher at kills most classes in 2 hits (0.625 seconds from initial attack). In comparison, the Frontier Justice makes the Engineer more vulnerable by halving his clip size, requiring him to reload his primary weapon more often. It also gives him a trade-off if his Sentry Gun is both successful in killing in that he can allow the Sentry Gun to go down, The Revolver is meant to be a weapon that is not highly effective in combat. The only stock weapons in the game with a lower DPS than the Revolver are the Sniper Rifle, the Level 1 Sentry Gun, and all of the melee weapons. Thus it is designed to finish off weaker enemies. The Diamondback's downside is very small in this regard, and its upside is huge. As I've said, the Diamondback's DPS is higher than almost every other weapon in the game. Comparitively, even if you were hitting constant headshots with the Ambassador back in the day, it was still only doing approximately 3.8% more DPS than the Revolver.

[@fellerfella5118]

Holy shit my dude,that probabily took a lot of time and research, nice work!

[@SkillfulCurve]

bro do you even play spy? Do you know how hard is to shot people sometimes?

[@nicholaswalker757]

I think you could have condensed down this information and make it not look like you're writing a 5 page essay.

[@Metro_Stalin_Mayer]

Finally some one really exposes the Diamondback comparing it with the Frontier Justice, I've seen complains about the Diamondback for years, yet nobody seems to find OP the fact that an Engie can build a sentry on his Intel, get 20 crits of F2P scouts that just run forward and then destroy the whole enemy team with the stored crits.

[@MrPaladin]

Medics would consider ubering a frontier justice... you would never uber a Diamondback...

[@curtisehoffman]

Kritz, Widowmaker is one of the most terrifying combos in the game. Jus saying, it should be meta. Anecdotally, I've seen a lot less frontier justice engies these day, idk why tho.

[@ipressedon9289]

There is some logic to that, but I can't help but pointing out this: You're comparing a revolver to a shotgun. That's kind of like comparing apples to oranges. They're two different kinds of weapons with different styles of use and ranges. Though, again, there IS some logic to that argument, as the problem (as some would call it) seems to be with the mechanic of stored crits. Not to mention the FJ gets it's stored crits faster compared to the diamondback. Two for sentry kills, one for sentry assist. The Diamondback only gets one for either of it's methods.

[@Kindrov]

YOu're forgetting the Engineer can't go invisible or disguise himself, and requires his sentry(with kill or assist) to be destroyed. And having a bright glowing gun makes you the priority.

[@MrPaladin]

being a spy any time out of cloak makes you a priority... Circular logic on the cloaking... spy can also not build a level 3 or a mini sentry...

[@Ykskolme]

1:00 Seems like Demo has been drinkin too much again

[@jacoblertora1829]

Straight upgrade to revolver provided you get kills and saps reliably

[@MrPaladin]

nope... because you cant pull it out on a whim like the revolver. You have to change the way you play spy to micromanage the crits.

[@jackbennett6902]

Mr P, you're really effed it up with this one. The frontier Justice requires you to do things as an engineer you wouldn't normally be doing to get the crits (letting the sentry get destroyed), where is the diamondback gives you free crits for doing what you should be doing anyway.

[@MrPaladin]

see my video (date prior to this) where I show that is not the case.

[@jackbennett6902]

Replying to new comments on videos over a year old. Respect plus my dude.

[@MrPaladin]

that's how I roll ;)

[@TKsh1]

It's just situational. After all, you need to be decent at Spy to even use it, and the random spread doesn't really help.

[@fato7477]

You're quite right with frontier justice but it's a shotgun so on a long range it does like 16 demage but diamondback can deal 102 at any range.

[@massiveidiot77]

I think the diamond back is balanced since most of the time, I get like 15 crits without noticing and die trying to use them all

[@trippledot1887]

massive idiot Same here

[@warm_item_for_discussion9061]

Damn son your ads got me hooked on a new show named "Waco" Thx man!

[@MrPaladin]

TL:DR - It is not OP...

[@williamcox632]

MrPaladin true

[@nathanroman6566]

I suppose when taking the entirety of the casual and competitive scenes into account, perhaps it’s not. Backstabs are still relatively challenging to get. Depending on the situation sapping isn’t always a walk in the park. That being said I’ve seen the diamondback on the ban list in many different competitive settings, and for good reason.

[@MrPaladin]

This game was around long before the invention of COMP

[@Default0102]

The way you stated it its definitely not op. Thing is, its overpowered compared to an ambasaddor, in the hands of an experienced player. if you land headshots across the map reliably, you will easily bodyshot the same people, after racking up a few backstabs. I suppose spy mains are indirectly pissed of the diamondback, because the amby had a skill ceiling abolishing nerf, and not the gun that's actually having a lot less skill requirement, and is technically as viable as the headshot revolver. That's my experience at least.

[@MrPaladin]

"after racking up a few backstabs" - people throw this around like it is the easiest thing in the world to do

[@barnabastoh8669]

I'm in Australia, and I really loved this video for my favourite revolver. I love what you do, Mr P, keep doing it.

[@williamcox632]

I think the diamond back is balanced because it rewards good spy work

[@flytrapYTP]

William Cox it rewards what every spy should do in the first place.

[@williamcox632]

Anthony true

[@MrPaladin]

Anthony- nope, you take on disadvantages ion taking a diamondback in order to work at the advantages... It would be like saying Headshots reward what snipers do in the first place.

[@flytrapYTP]

MrPaladin the spy should backstab and sap. The reward for backstabbing is the instakill mechanic, so I do not think it's the same. It's also why I thought the Ambassador nerf was too harsh on the thing. I just disagree with those points.

[@LunarAce64]

Yeah, but successful backstabbing and sapping gets harder to do as the game goes on as people learn of a spy whose doing shit to their team and if the spy does get into a bad situation before he even gets any crits and has to pull out his revolver, chances are he's going to die. Being one of the squishiest classes in the game that is suppose to be around the enemy at all times is really hard to do once people take notice. Sure, people can notice the enemies Engineer buildings, but he usually has a team to rely on and can "move the gear back" when stuff gets too dangerous and if he does lose his sentry on the retreat, his Frontier Justice , even with 2 crits from a single kill can dissuade most people to not chase him.

[@armchairmaster]

The Diamondback and Frontier Justice are fine as they are, because their tradeoffs are warranted for the best stat in the game; guaranteed crits. 3 shots for the Engineer is a *huge* nerf, but you get the peace of mind that you have a crit stored as a last resort. The Diamondback having -15% base damage makes the weakest part of the Spy's kit even worse, but as a tradeoff rewards him for being sneaky, so when he DOES need to use the gun, he stands a better chance of living than otherwise. For anyone saying "no random crits is a big nerf", I have an easy way to reject that argument; the best TF2 players are *never* going to rely on random crits to kill somebody. Every shot they take is with the assumption that there won't be a random crit, which makes them better at calculating damage. Reliable criticals is an insane buff to any gun, and needs a big downside to balance the gun. But, if you're able to play the class the way they're meant to be played (building sentries in spots good for your team, and backstabbing enemies without dying afterwards), they become the most rewarding guns you can use.

[@2groovey]

People actually think its op? HA! The only reason it would seam that way is if the team let that spy get away with too much, while the Pyro is pretty much built for countering Spies its not the only class that can Spy-check and everyone can do it.

[@VestedUTuber]

Basically this. One of the biggest arguments against the Diamondback is that a teleporter gives the spy free crits, but said spy has to make his way to the teleporter entrance to do that in the first place AND the engineer needs to not be paying attention to his buildings to remove the sapper.

[@audreydelaughter4320]

You forgot a feature the Diamondback has. It looks awesome af.

[@aliteraldumpsterfire672]

"What IS the diamondback?" Well sir depends on the context. It's either a snake or a gun.

[@tornadotyler123]

My issue is you can hide your crits. Where the frontier justice cant

[@BdresserGaming]

I feel like it's a balanced weapons, it rewards you for doing your job

[@bucket1442]

Yea but i feel like u should get 1 crit for 2 backstabs

[@M1_wastaken]

What DOESN'T aggravate me in TF2: -Skill -Weapons that reward said skill Case in point, the diamondback is a mental burden, because you don't want to use your crits on anyone who is below 50 health/is a sentry gun But isn't that what the revolver is for?

[@robertniedenzu]

i agree, the diamondback is not extremely overpowered, but its strong. I'm just mad that the ambassador got nerfed while the diamondback stayed the way it is right now. if you do spy things you can achieve the same thing as you would get with the ambassador, but you dont need to aim. Its just a cheesy less skilled version of the ambassador for people who cant aim, taking away the skill reward that came with using the ambassador. Thats what I am mad about

[@seta_samuli2759]

Wambert but the players have skill reward anyway because they have done something for those crits

[@robertniedenzu]

Desantti oh come on, doing the most basic of spy things instead of being extremely accurate is a big difference in skill

[@Dennis_Fueru]

Wambert I agree that the Diamondback is strong, but I disagree with it not need aiming

[@GoodOlRoll]

The no random crits isnt really a good point bc no one should rely on random crits, but i can see why you brought that up

[@JonoXD]

MrP- Why is the Diamondback so bad? Firstly, no random crits Really? Is that seriously a valid reason lol +YOU CANT TAUNT KILL WITH THE WEAPON WOW WHAT A DOWNSIDE

[@MrPaladin]

yes... DPS or damage per second can factor in... If you do not think random crits are reliable, you have never swung an ubersaw or a wrench. 12% chance after you have dealt some damage means you'll probably get 1 crit in every 2 clips. Plus it is MORE damage because revolver is not damage reduced.

[@rainrunya]

MrPaladin im still confused as to why you said that you cant taunt kill with it

[@JonoXD]

But do random crits actually matter when your main source of damage is the crits you are going to get? +if u r going to use the diamondback with no Crits, the best u can do is finish off under 60 health enemies so the damage penalty doesn’t really matter as well Also, u shouldn’t be relying on random crits to get kills it’s really infuriating to get killed by them already

[@LunarAce64]

Sure random crits are infuriating, but they do have to be taken into consideration. Sudden spikes in damage for no reason is something every stock weapon has (and a lot of unlockables do as well) and does influence a weapon's impact even if you hate the mechanic itself.

[@MrPaladin]

freaky- because it was to draw a comparison to the frontier justice which has one of the better tauntkills in the game :)

[@janLilin]

The Diamondback and Frontier Justice are kinda different. The Frontier Justice rewards you for keeping yourself alive and placing your sentry in a proper position to get kills. The Diamondback rewards you with crits for doing what a Spy is already intended to be doing. The quantity of crits gained from the Diamondback isn't as big for a normal player as the number would for a Frontier Justice, but you don't really need to adapt around the downsides of the Diamondback.

[@TauCu]

Your forgetting something, The fronthere justice is less likely to get sentry kills if the team you are playing against doesn't have brains the consistency of soggy-pasta. It's still good for area-denial and tanking damage (Such as heavie), Rubbish for earning crits in that instance, Lets take a look at the Phlog- i mean Diamondback, You do spy things, You get crits, You harass a skilled team getting a kill now and again, you can two-pop their medic.

[@MrPaladin]

I shoulda mentioned "who ubers a diamondback" Every other OP weapon would get an uber... but the diamondback is not OP enough!

[@spinsolar]

At LEAST you're doing your job as Spy when you use the diamondback XD. Most Amby Spies just stick to their teammate's backline and try to be bargain bin Snipers, picking off important targets with fickle accuracy instead of doing things that spies do. Heck after the nerf I find myself getting killed by more spies through backstabs rather than try to hit me with their semi-accurate peashooter and then getting mowed down by my teammates soon after.

[@TauCu]

+Tekko Nightlark THIS. Yes THIS, Annoying, Useless, Player. Is true. And that is the only reason I LOVE valve for kill- i mean nerfing the amby... because that's what 70% of people used it for.

[@Kohchu]

+Tau This so much. Now the Ambassador is more useful for escapes. It rewards accurate players with the ability to hurt chasers more effectively, rather then putting all your eggs in one basket and risking your life over a trickstab. All the nerf did was seperate the good Spies (Who can adapt and use it in it's current incarnation) and the bad Spies (who relied on the gun for free damage from all ranges and can't actually play Spy effectively); which no matter how you slice it, is an improvement.

[@HalfLifeSistah]

I don't understand most of what was discussed in this video, but I enjoyed watching it. You rock, as the Spy, Mr. P😀

[@MrPaladin]

The short version is... all is fair in love and war....

[@DarthIronclad]

The amby need a buff instead tbh...the diamondback is fine right now.

[@SawBlade289]

ĐΔŘŦĦ ƗŘØŇĆŁΔĐ I think that the Ambassador needs a rework instead. It’s the only gun that suffers damage falloff on its crits, which is nonsense to be honest. If they’re going to break it’s critical hit mechanic, why not just change its entire concept, because right now it’s not looking good for the Ambassador...

[@fellerfella5118]

Just put a range limit on the amby,no need for damage fall-off. I know that the tf2 community fears skill but this nerf was too harsh tbh.

[@fellerfella5118]

And of course,fix the actual pyro because it is complete bullshit. Now you can go full braindead and still destroy the enemy.

[@keycicle]

W R A T H im that pyro

[@F.M671]

@@fellerfella5118 nah

[@Dog-999i]

The thing I don't like about this weapon is that it has no crit damage fall off but the Ambassador does. I also can't prepare myself for a fight when I get sniped from across the map by a disguised diamonback spy. It just feels kind of cheap. Maybe making it deal -20% or -25% would make it more fair to fight against but still make it a strong weapon.

[@Dorelaxen]

The Spy haters won't be happy until Spy literally does no damage. Valve proposed changes: Spy's backstab now buffs target with 1000 health and 10 minutes of Ubercharge. Spy has 1 health and his head hitbox is 10 times what it was. Spy starts round dead and the player that picked him has the game uninstalled from their computer. Hell, that probably won't even make the anti-Spy players happy.

[@purpleice2343]

Meanwhile: When I play medic: 5 spies on enemy team and everyone has broccoli soup instead of brain on my team, I have to kill literally all of them with my melee. When I play spy: at least 1 pyro running through his team spychecking and defending engineer nest, even soldiers and heavies spycheck once in a while, and my team is complaining about useless spies.

[@Dorelaxen]

And yet one competent Spy can utterly wreck an opposing team. Almost single handedly in some cases.

[@strangejune]

Your comparison with the Frontier Justice isn't as good a comparison as you believe, because: - The Engineer with Frontier Justice crits has a slower walk speed and can't cloak to better position himself to take advantage of those crits, - It isn't possible to tell what revolver a disguised Spy is using, or how to play around it; it isn't possible to tell if the disguised Diamondback Spy has zero saved crits or thirty-five, - The Frontier Justice has half as many shots as the Diamondback at maximum and takes longer to fully reload, - The Frontier Justice requires that you destroy or let be destroyed your own sentry to gain these crits, something that can easily backfire if you fail to capitalize or pick the wrong moment to do so, and - The Frontier Justice is a shotgun, so unlike the Diamondback it naturally has "damage falloff" in the form of less pellets hitting a farther target, even with crits. All of that being said, if Engineer had the Diamondback as a primary, that functioned exactly as it does on Spy except rewarding crits for sentry kills and assists like the Frontier Justice, it would still be broken. The Frontier Justice is a very committal weapon - you have to take a lot of risks to properly use the crits you've earned with your sentry. Destroying the sentry, going up into the front line close enough to shoot enemies with your crits, retreating and rebuilding your sentry to restart the cycle - doing any one of these things wrong can result in the Engineer's death and put the rest of his buildings at a massive risk to spies or a well-coordinated push. By contrast, the only way a Diamondback Spy has to change play style is to keep in mind when it is safe to use the revolver and to retreat otherwise.

[@joshcheng5563]

I honestly DO believe the diamond back needs a nerf, albeit a minor one. Right now the Dimondback has no real downsides. The damage penalty rarely comes into play. Think about the main times you may pull out your gun: Finishing off fleeing enemy: Diamond: 1 shot Diamond w/ crit: 1 shot Revolver: 1 shot Caught by a light classes (scout, other spy, engie, med, sniper) Diamond: 3-6 shots (depending on range assuming CQB-Medium) Diamond w/ crits: 2 shots Revolver: 3-5 shots (depending on range assuming CQB-Medium) Caught by demo/pyro/soldier: Diamond: 5-10 shots (depending on range) Diamond w/ crits: 2 shots Revolver: 5-9 shots (depending on range) As you can see, there really isn’t any situation where the diamond misses out while plenty where it excels. In pubs it’s really not that hard to pull off a few stabs/saps so I really do think it’s quite strong.

[@outplayed6002]

i wonder why mrp never responded to this

[@VestedUTuber]

@@outplayed6002 Because he already pointed out why it's not a valid argument in the video. The OP is playing Math Fortress 2 and not considering qualitative drawbacks, such as the fact that you have to get those crits in the first place (unlike the ambassador or enforcer which essentially have crits on demand from good aim/simply having a disguise up), the fact that it's really loud and gives away your position more-so than other revolvers, the fact that you can still potentially miss a crit both from aim AND bullet spread during cool-down, the fact that it doesn't give any other utility (unlike the L'etranger which extends cloak duration), etc.

[@kironam]

I always thought it was awesome that the spy got rewarded for doing his job. The diamondback encourages spies to do what they're meant to do instead going for trickstabs and dying every time

[@user-ni7hm3ry8o]

People are just mad how valve nerfed ambassador but the diamondback and somehow they were similar how you could snipe using them. I dont think ambassador and deadringer needed nerf but valve should buff the unused weapons like sharpend volcano or sun on stick or maybe a little bit of buff to all medic melee but ubersaw since many people use ubersaw. (I dont think medics melee are bad but most people use ubersaw)

[@ReonMagnum]

Valve has already killed the Ambassador with its severe range and damage falloff nerfs. If they go after the Diamondback too, then Spy would no longer have any viable offensive revolvers to use other than stock. I remember a time when the Enforcer had a 20% damage bonus while undisguised. It was more OP than the Amby and DB ever was, but when Valve changed it, they turned it into a straight downgrade that's hardly ever used.

[@user-ni7hm3ry8o]

Thats my point. And my opinion about how valve change the spy is that, spy's revolver should only be used as plan B. Like some people, spy shouldn't be only using gun. But, they nerfed ambassador into point that it's almost unusable. If it is because of hackers, they should fix the game. Is it because of some 2k hrs spy main who wipes the whole server with ambi, they shouldnt nerf it because the pro spymains would eventually do well with anyweapons so i think the balance should be focused on the average player and they don't land headshots so frequently. The nerf was shit, and DR nerf was worse. So the valve is shit. And they abandoned tf2. That's all.

[@BigJ1m]

diamondback is way better than frontier justice having half a clip is alot worse than a 15% damage penalty plus the diamondback gets the crits as soon as you get a kill / sap a building

[@avgkkarthik7914]

It's basically a Direct-Hit like thing for spy. We can easily relate stock revolver with stock RL. Also if you've at least a 100 hours of gameplay, you'd be knowing that all the weapons are situational. Accuracy and Skill is only thing you need to use every weapon in any situation.

[@DEWILL]

I thought this was a joke video when hearing you listing up diamondback's "downsides" Then mindfooked that video has ended

[@bynightfall_4516]

Hi dewill

[@meme-pocalypsenotspookwage4598]

diamond back shouldn't be nerfed it should be reworked

[@МаринаКудоярова-р4п]

All VALVe games shouldn't be fixed - they should be reworked, e?

[@trippledot1887]

Марина Кудоярова That makes no sense.

[@thebushbros6626]

@@trippledot1887 exactly

[@igetboredproductions]

As someone who uses it as their preferred revolver, I do think they should give it the ambassador treatment and give the crits limited range. I'm also thinking that maybe instead of not doing crits at all after max distance if they could do mini crits. This is of course referring to both the diamondback and the ambassador. Also, I should add that it's still very effective to assist your sapper with the diamondback, so long as there aren't already crits stored on it. The faster the building dies, the sooner you get those crits from the buildings, which can help in a pinch when the Engineer is running in to save his nest.

[@___-wu2ve]

I want a Pyro weapon that gives you free crits for burning players nevermind

[@chainsmoke34]

I would quit

[@Querymonger]

Most Pyro unlocks do that in some way

[@MrPaladin]

(Mann melter) gets bonus for extinguish...

[@___-wu2ve]

MrPaladin I main Pyro and Spy and I never use that weapon lol

[@proptosis5585]

imagine a phlog with a -15% damage attribute but airblast instead---

[@TitanEaterOfCrayons]

"You can miss shots to do exactly 0 damage." Really? So I've just been shooting the air expecting shit to change! I guess you learn some new every day.

[@MrPaladin]

counterpoint - soldiers and demos criticals can miss but still do player killing splash damages... Medics have weapons that grant criticals for a time and their beam locks onto targets and heals them at the same time. so their aim grants criticals and does not miss even if you spin a 180...l so yes, you can indeed miss in this game and expect "shit" to change....

[@TitanEaterOfCrayons]

@@MrPaladin okay then I didn't expect you to take this that seriously, it was kinda just a joke

[@MrPaladin]

@@TitanEaterOfCrayons i take most posts at face value .. hard to tell satire sometimes

[@TitanEaterOfCrayons]

@@MrPaladin it's alright

[@nathanroman6566]

Make it only give crits on backstabs. I’ve found that most any time there are many buildings, getting crits is fairly simple. It gives a competent spy the ability to two-shot most people with little risk.

[@MrPaladin]

you can two shot people with the other guns.... other classes have many ways to 1 shot those same people...

[@chrissfu1938]

I agree on this one

[@nathanroman6566]

MrPaladin fair enough. Hasn’t stopped me from being a menace taking the DB with the DR even after the DR’s nerf. Stab here, sap there, two shot him from any distance you like, DR away.... I can at least understand why people might find it frustrating to fight against.

[@mikelorme635]

Nathan Roman no

[@Rh0mbus]

The difference is that classes that can 2 shot need to do it in a certain range or get in harm's way to do so. Diamondback can do it from any range. Frontier Justice is still not a good comparison due to not loosing as much of a huge disavantage. Sure you can get caught out of the situation, but you can also get out of those situations much easier than an engineer that just lost his sentry gun, most of the time, the enemies will be farther away except a spy sapping his gun. We need the amby back and the diamondback to rework in my opinion. That's just what I think personally.

[@Dr_Minty]

First off, you need to be a semi-decent or decent spy to even get enough critz to make a real gameplay difference. If you're a bad spy welp, looks like you're not using this weapon often. Secondly, you actually need to be able to aim to make the crits even count in the first place. You'll have to practice your aim to really be rewarded with this weapon. And lastly, any good spy main will be annoying to go against regardless if they use the diamondback or not. Half of them still use the ambassador over this weapon even though it had a nerf. This is the case cause of the sheer time they put in to master head shoting. Just a side note, sometimes using your gun as spy can be useless cause of the bullet spread it has after the 1st shot. Just my 2 cents

[@moth5799]

Most spies with at least 50 hours can aim their revolver shots well enough, you only need 1 or 2 crits to make a difference. With 1 crit you can easily drop medics, with 2 you can easily drop soldiers and heavies. And most spy players can get 2 backstabs / saps in a single life.

[@araxno9962]

6:01 that medic((((

[@MrPaladin]

i.pinimg.com/originals/9b/0d/11/9b0d11a0d6405b2cf71ed61a3a0cef4e.gif

[@barthvader95]

5:40 That Pyro's lack of reaction to the sentry going down bothers me to no end.

[@monke2438]

So many excuses why it's a shit weapon. "It's loud" like honestly, is that what you're gonna say? A good spy doesn't need a revolver that often so you should have at least 1 backstab when you have to start using a revolver. -15% damage means nothing, it's still 3 shots point blank if you want to go for a razorback sniper.

[@onewhosaysgoose4831]

Mr P you spent tons of minutes of weaknesses of the spy class and his revolvers. Almost none of them are weaknesses/limitations that are gained by switching to the diamond back from the stock revolver or ambassador.

[@rainrunya]

The main reason people see this as OP is the no crit damage falloff. The amby nerf really made the weapon nearly useless imo, because it at least took skill to hit long range headshots. THIS, however, doesn't. It's just as broken at long range as the old Amby was considered. I think they should add the crit damage falloff to the Diamondback too. IN MY OPINION

[@MrPaladin]

you dont earn the crits from long range

[@GOGATORS2468]

and destroy the use of the diamond back just like the amby?

[@Sumguyinavan_]

It is exactly discussions like this which the Developers need to hear and engage in. Input from experienced players who really understand balance of equipment, the pure numbers, and all intended and unintended effects. Few people take things like weapon sound into account when talking about balance, but I know I change how I approach an area I can't see because I hear a Brass Beast, Beggar's Bazooka, a specific banner call, etc. There are some serious conversations which can totally change our game for the better but it often feels like those who maintain and change our game aren't interested in balance and fixing problems.

[@joshanev7664]

+1 sub for you

[@kerbonaut2059]

Why Diamondback isn't OP - Nobody uses it. If more people got crit shot out of nowhere with the Diamondback, lots of people would be far more salty about the thing. Its just that nobody uses it, so nobody actually notices that the Diamondback wrecks house. Go tell them trickstabbing amby spies to use the Diamondback. With the sheer amount of backstabs they go for, they'd be having crits all the time, and in a single clip can deal over 600 damage. Then we'd see the hate coming in. I find the crits inconsistency with the Ambassdor really weird on the dev's part. Both should have crit falloff, and the Diamondback would still be really strong since you could clear an exit route after taking down an engie nest with the 5 bodyshot crits you have.

[@dukiz99]

No, I think you're just straight up wrong about this. A core part of spy balance is that if he is caught out then he is at a disadvantage. Yes, with a revolver you can still win, but if you do then it is a credit to your own ability and not to the power of the revolver. In a 1-on-1 between two equally skilled players a spy should lose to a damage class every single time. If you enter the fight with 3 or four crits then that's no longer true. With two shots you can kill a pyro, a demo or a soldier, at any range. Rather than be at a disadvantage you are now actually at an advantage over these players. Against a heavy, three shots will kill. With a stock revolver you wouldn't even pick the fight to begin with, there's no chance of your piddly revolver eating through 300HP. Against a sniper, you suddenly have an effective way to engage him over long distances. Since you can appear in any sightline and remain under cloak, it is very hard for a sniper to avoid this. These upsides are massive but the downsides are minimal. 15% is a fairly insignificant damage loss. It can absolutely make a difference but it really isn't a huge loss, a diamondback with no crits can still acheive anything a revolver can with similar odds of success. Random crits meanwhile cap at 12% chance, and will typically sit far lower. Losing random crits on a non-melee weapon is barely a consideration. Additionally, anytime you have stored crits these negatives are negated almost entirely. The only thing that would still apply is shooting at buildings, which as i've said is affected minimally by a 15% loss in damage. So to summarise, in a best case scenario the upsides are phenomenal and in a worst case scenario the downsides are minimal. You do raise some additional downsides in your video but these are also pretty negligible - when was the last time you saw a battalion's backup? The comparison with the FJ is unfair. If an engineer's buildings are destroyed then they are put at a big disadvantage, which the FJ offsets. Even if the engi destroys their own sentry then they are still losing out on a powerful asset to get the crits. However when the buildings are still up the weapon is much worse, and leaves you vulnerable to spies. You lose half your clip, that's a much, much worse downside than a little 15% penalty. It is much harder to maintain your crits as you need to spycheck, and because they all come in one burst you are more likely to die with a large backlog of wasted crits than a spy who can constantly be using his shots. Also, even with crits you still haven't got three of your shots, which is going to hurt your chances and leave you open to ambushes after you shoot someone with it - a diamondback with crits does not have a comparable downside. I'm not entirely happy with the balance on the FJ either if i'm honest, but its issues are not on the same level as the diamondback's. Another comparable weapon which you don't mention is the phlog, which I feel is a better illustration of my point. As a phlog pyro you lose airblast to gain the ability to earn crits, like the diamondback. Now, straightaway that is a much larger downside than a 15% damage penalty. Airblast is massive to the pyro, particularly against soldiers. Once you trigger crits, you become very powerful, but the downside still hinders you, unlike on the diamondback. Many times I have found myself wasting my crits because a soldier with a bit of range on me has killed me or forced me back - in these situations I find myself wishing I had the stock, even with my crit boost! There is no comparable situation with the diamondback, if you have the crits then it's objectively better, pretty much whenever. This is of course not even mentioning the issue of spys farming crits off bad players and using them to kill good players. That's not a balance problem but it's still unfun to fight against, meaning it has a negative impact on the gameplay experience. Anyway to conclude, love the channel, pls nerf.

[@curtisehoffman]

dukiz99 I'll admit, I didn't read this whole thing. But, I agree. One of the biggest issues I have with it is that there is no indication that the spy has crits. And the farming bad players thing.

[@MrPaladin]

"the downsides are minimal" The downsides are so bad you nearly never use the gun unless you have a crit in it.

[@curtisehoffman]

MrPaladin ^True, although optimal play would suggest that you should only use the revolver when you are caught out or are finishing a weak enemy (their hp can't be controlled for, it's effectively random). For sapped building I think the damage difference is negligable. Now that I think about it, the problem with the diamondback is similar to the issues with the pre-nerf amby. What is meant as a secondary defense weapon becomes capable of great offensive burst damage. The only place I can see this affecting spies repeatably is dealing with Razorback snipers, however, I still believe that you should be able to dispatch a sniper consistently, considering his dps with the rifle is lower (I'd have to check) and a headshot is going to be a low percentage skillshot. Anyway, my only real issue is that you can't see the crits unless the gun is out, so the spy has an advantage that way if you discover him without his gun out (like a killstreak effect, perhaps on a pin or holster). If you don't see the spy, chances are you should be dead anyway, so I don't have a problem with the crits in this way. Just my thoughts, correct me if I'm wrong on any/all of my points. I rarely play spy, and I am a filthy sniper main, so my opinion is biased. :P

[@dukiz99]

You lose 6 points of damage, 9 maximum at point blank. I'm sorry but I don't believe that you would never use the gun for the sake of a 9 damage loss.

[@curtisehoffman]

You know, what if, instead of the crits mechanic(which I hate), the diamondback had a heads/backs/saps mechanic like the bazaar bargain? You collect heads, and the damage or fire rate increases as you get more heads. This way it does not ruin single engagements with a 102 crit burst but provides a passive benefit for all revolver play. Or you could increase accuracy and another stat, but that seems like a dubious benefit. If the damage starts at 35 (for argument's sake), and you get 2.5 dmg buff per head. This build to a max of 50 dmg for 6 "backs". This way, after 3 heads you can deal 42.5x3 = 127.5 dmg. This is an improvement over the stock 40x3 = 120. So you can 3 shot squishy classes without damage ramp up, and with max damage buff, you can deal 150 in 3 shots. With ramp up, this puts you in ballpark range to kill a medic (without buff) even with heal regen. Thoughts?

[@alfredkruse1517]

Thank you so much for making this video! It's like you know i need advice for the Diamondback.

[@m3mple174]

I am totally the first guy that watch this vid

[@Fofo-sr2xu]

OBJECTION!

[@sakukorpinen]

I'm surpised valve nerfed the ambassador and not the diamondback. I personally think that the db should have the same crit fall off as the amby, just so you wouldn't get instantly sniped at 102 health or below by a db spy. it would make the db more of a medium to close range weapon, just like the amby.

[@CodenameMood]

*The Shpee knows da wei*

[@MermaidTyrone]

click click click click click

[@PorQpine215]

Mr. Paladin is our Queen bruhduh.

[@crabcakes5346]

only are queen knows da wei click click click click

[@darwin3684]

the shpee is the queen click clickclick

[@ceae69]

5:49 that pyro regretting her life choices for not using homewrecker

[@akarouge]

Naaah the diamondback does not meed a nerf

[@meme-pocalypsenotspookwage4598]

TerribleHumour it doesn't need a nerf , it needs a rework

[@mikelorme635]

meme-pocalypse not spookwagen no

[@akarouge]

Naaah

[@xander2698]

Soldier didn't even turn around when the medic died. RIP Medic

[@yangziyi940]

Wonder why Valve haven’t nerfed it already

[@Fofo-sr2xu]

Which one?

[@IslarfPokemon]

Fun fact. If you get stabs during a life then go to spawn and switch to the diamondback, you'll be given the crits for all them stabs.

[@micoelazar6279]

The waiting was worth it, If you remember me MrP!

[@unit_43]

I was thinking the same. Good thing we're in the same page.

[@slashbows]

I don't like that, even if you know the spy is disguised, you don't know they have crits until you actually get hit. However, changing it so that you know they have crits would defeat the entire purpose of spy. My idea is that it should be so that if you fire the gun while disguised, the bullet mini crits instead, and let's say it takes off half a crit, and the next shot is also a mini crit. This isn't really a nerf, but more of an addition of a gimmick. This has a high chance of being unbalanced as I thought of this literally while typing my comment.

[@MrPaladin]

There is a lot you don't get to see about spy. It is kind of the point.

[@slashbows]

@@MrPaladin good point. Also you replied wtf

[@woodia8401]

Yeah... quickscopes need a nerf. Maybe 60-75 minimal damage after scoping in. Max 450 damage, charge time and charge rate would remain unchanged. This would make sniper vulnerable in short ranges and wouldnt be a death sentence for you after peeking the sightline.

[@Fortify045]

Once you consider that sentry don't get effect by Crits sometimes it can be a handicap since you can't shoot the sentry while you run away or you have to waist your crits on it.

[@gaidencastro9706]

I feel sad that it seems the diamondback is even more unpopular today than it was at the time of this video's release.

[@hansandhismp-4033]

0:57 Medic : "Aaahhhh" (Stabed by mrp) Heavy : "Thank you doctor" (then got stabbed by mrp)

[@lizz7559]

Nice to know I was in a game with MrPaladin himself :P Had my name as "Lizzy" at the time

[@MrPaladin]

hey there!

[@popthiccle1158]

Why does it suck? -cuz its not the l'etranger

[@Ph0n3numb3r]

When talking about balance, random crits should not be brought into discussion. Sure, on the stats it says no random crits, but what about on servers that disallow random crits? Then your entire argument falls apart because then the other revolvers fail to catch up to the diamondback aside from close range ambassador.

[@MrPaladin]

We dont balance for servers running mods from default. You balance the default Case in point: Don't balance based on x50 servers

[@nyotamwuaji6484]

I wasn't aware that the Vaccinator negated critical damage. Perhaps I should use it more. Also what we need is a better anti-cheat system to deal with script kiddies, not random nerfs

[@eatyourcereal5651]

5:51 is that pyro using the sharpend volton volcano fragment as the home wrecker

[@tadas7985]

Soaped my eyes good my master *kneels*

[@scydot.1622]

In my personal favorite loadout, I use the diamondback with everything else stock. It doesn’t need a need at all because you can easily miss the crits due to revolver bullet spread or bad aim. It’s perfectly fine right now.

[@ShotaxNinja]

It is really useful especially when a pure decides to chase you and they you can take them with surprise

[@victorglyrskov7173]

The only reason people are saying it should of gotten a nerf, is that it is easier to use and more efficient than the ambassador, but the amby was the one who got the nerf