How Accurate Are These Precision 308 Rifles?

Welcome to Ron Spomer Outdoors! This is day 2 of 308 Winchester week. We have some precision rifles we are testing out. And we will answer the question, "How Accurate Are These Precision 308 Rifles?"
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@TomL3grandsons]

Loving this 308 win series

[@jonfranklin4583]

Love this rifle comparison, watching 3 different rifles shoot 3 different weight bullets is really informative. I would agree with Ron on the Savage, not often you get a factory rifle that will shoot 3 different weights that well out of the box. Looking forward to the rest of the series!

[@aethertech]

love my axis ii 308, with norma gold match its sub moa with my astigmatism eyes

[@dougstanley7662]

I have the Savage 110 tact but in 6.5cm the only bad thing about the rifle is the weight it is a tank with the heavy barrel and a full 10 rnd mag.ive switched out to the 5 rnd mags which helps abit but those AICS mags are speedy at $40 each..I bought mine during covid and got a hell of a deal on it for just under $600.

[@mikga45]

S&w is a better AR option. Savage is to be junk. The last 15 years they have upped their game and make a more accurate rifle that functions better than Ruger. Ruger is a great rifle but their quality control has gone down hill and they cannot compare to savage accuracy.

[@rudygeorgiamulesandcountry1594]

In 1980 I purchased a Remington Model 788 in .308 Win. @ the. "Big K" for $ 100.oo that would shoot 3 shot clover leafs all day long@ 100 Meters. Still have that rifle.

[@JT-py9lv]

Rate of twist, seating depth, bullet ogive etc. all make a big difference. That is where hand loading can make a huge difference. Thanks for the comparison.

[@joelpeterson8424]

Yeah, I too was wondering how the twist rates may differ between the rifles and if that affected stabilazion of the heavier, 180 grain bullets, for example. Perhaps most rifles chambered in .308 have the 1:10-ish rifling twist?

[@scottgibson6735]

I bought,a Savage,precision,m&p10,in,308 a few years ago.My Budd,and I took it to the range,to put some lead downrange.I had put,a sort of expensiveVortech6 x24Vortech scope on it.Ater,some basic sighting in,it shot one hole groups,at a hundred yards,with practically, no effort.we shot that thing all afternoon.I loved,the gun,and the trigger.The next day,my buddy complained about hi sore shoulder.This was no lightweight guy,he had been a mob enforcer,in Hartford CT.I saw him in action a couple of times. You didn’t want to have what he could inflict.I gave him,a little ribbing,because my shoulder felt fine.He took it,because,it was me,so,does anyone else,think,the.308,has bad recoil?

[@codyhummel2366]

​@scottgibson6735 not even 1 bit of bad recoil.

[@HobbitHomes263]

the outfitter i worked for was old school. he would say 'if two pounds of rifle is gonna mess up your hunt you didnt spend enough time in the gym"

[@jeffreyharmon7543]

I just happen to own both the begara and the PSA both in 308. I also own several savage rifles as well. I had similar issues with the begaras being very picky about what loads it liked but after I broke the barrel in with the 60 shot process recommended in the manual it really tightened up with all bullet weights. my psa prefers the 150 as well but I haven't had any issues with cycling. I agree with your statement about not giving up on a rifle before you work with it for a while. Keep up the good work with the videos. I really enjoy your practical hunting approach to rifles. Give me a trusty bolt gun any day!

[@pietrmikk7083]

How has the Bergara performed? Seriously considering one

[@williamgaines9784]

I had the same bolt issue with a nephew's Savage Axis...came out 5x easier than it went back in.😅 Haven't manipulated my 110 Storm as much, but it went in and out fairly easily, but nowhere nearly as smooth as the old Rem. 700. For "run of the mill" ammunition, Hornady American Whitetail seems to shoot very well in several different calibers.

[@anisenkrill6179]

I picked up a SA 700 ADL for a beater/loaner bout 12 years ago for $329 from Cabelas with a disposable scope. Put a VX3 on it and it runs an inch with the fancy store-bought 165's. 3 elk, 1 moose, 3 WT bucks taken so far and not by me. The one thing that never gets brought up with the .308 is how relatively quiet they are (especially at 24").

[@phyzel9417]

Hey Ron, if you have an uncocked Savage 110, push in the bolt release button prior to moving the bolt handle. Then move the bolt and it will come right out. To put the bolt back in, simply pull the trigger and insert the bolt.

[@DaleCroft-hr3wp]

0p

[@DaleCroft-hr3wp]

0p

[@davidmackee8575]

Totally agree on your choice Ron 👍👍

[@SamuelBerryhill]

Thanks for the video man really like the good ol 308 content. Keep up the good work God bless

[@collinstremick5015]

22:27 Old Ron forgot he was shooting a semi-auto. 😂😂

[@Vince-ml9gw]

Great review guys! Looking forward to seeing more.

[@TomLang91]

Great series great catridge! Can't wait for the next episodes

[@guardianminifarm8005]

Good tests. Thank you.

[@ricksshop]

Those PSA two-stage triggers are the bomb, aren't they?

[@winkletown8828]

I'm so happy that I found this channel. Thanks Ron!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

You are welcome, winkletown. Thanks for watching.

[@RevHiker]

I have the Savage 110 Tactical in 308, and I do take it backpack elk hunting because it shoots even better than the one you have. Shoots everything very well. The rifle does the killing, so i dont mind the extra weight when it means the best possible accuracy.

[@zebacake4683]

i have one in 6.5 PRC, so far it wont shoot at all

[@austino775]

Very enjoyable videos! Keep em coming!!!

[@paststeve1]

Great video, Ron! I would love to get one of the Savage 110 Tactical in .270 Win. Thanks to Chase and Outdoor Empire for the loan of the rifles. I can't wait to see the next three rifles!

[@CircleBrewery]

For hating the .308, Ron you sure can shoot it 😂

[@michaelhill6451]

Unless he’s shooting a Bergarbage rifle in 308. No one can shoot those into anything approaching acceptable accuracy. I have one and I’ve also thought I’ve put two bullets into one hole only to realize the rifle is a complete piece of trash and I’m off the paper.

[@joquin4618]

@@michaelhill6451was saving up for a Bergara wilderness HMR in 308 but there’s mix reviews online from some raving about it being “smooth” and others straight up hating/loathing it. What would you consider the better bang for your buck?

[@michaelhill6451]

@@joquin4618 I would get a Tikka CTR or similar. I got one after I got my Bergara and it shot < 0.5 MOA (for 5-shot groups) on the first range session with the first random load I tried in it. I even gave someone with the same rifle the same load and they got pretty much identical results. That's consistency. I would add that based on the reviews I've seen, it is mainly the 308 version of the HMR that has accuracy problems. I can't speak to the other calibers. They may be fine.

[@joquin4618]

@@michaelhill6451 thanks 🙏

[@troytownsend1730]

I really think the reason for the wide groups with the Bergara was the sling studs catching on the bag. I always take them out before I bench shoot. hope you find time to do a little follow up to try and pin it down, if it's not just ammo. Great video will be looking to see the rest. Thanks Ron.

[@darkdervishbeam]

My buddy has a Bergara B-14 HMR in 6.5 Creedmoor and it is an absolute tackdriver: I got my 900 yards' badge on a French outdoor range 2 summers ago with that exact rifle. I also took a muntjac with it at 95 yards near dusk in the UK, so your mileage may vary ;-)

[@belt1974123]

I agree. Got my b14 hmr in 6.5 prc. Paid under a grand for the rifle and it stupid accurate with my hand loads.

[@briankelly2886]

I noticed the studs catching also.

[@troytownsend1730]

@@briankelly2886 Well Ron Spomer mentioned it could be the cause, but also said that theoretically the bullet should be out of the barrel by then. I do know that a sign of a shot made with proper fundamentals is when the gun shoots straight back into ones shoulder with no muzzle rise. in any case, with proper mounting and good rifle and scope build quality. I don't see any Bergara ever made shooting groups that wide. Would be interesting to see how it does shoot with studs removed.

[@briankelly2886]

@@troytownsend1730 If they don't like the load even a super accurate rifle will spit bullets all over the place. I thought my scope failed between range trips with my custom .280AI ,It went from 1/4 moa to 2 1/2 moa with just a different powder.All other components were the same.

[@mikehobbs7421]

That savage bolt release is one of the reasons why I sold all my savages off and have revamped the safe with tikka, and Winchester model 70’s. All my savages were very accurate but the design in the mechanics of the rifle always bugged me. But I would still recommend a savage 110 in many calibres to a new shooter on a budget. That being said for a couple extra dollars a tikka t3x blued would be a better option. All my humble opinion. Cheers from Canada Ron! 🍻🇨🇦👍🏻

[@paulsimmons5726]

Good decision about the M70’s. I’ve been using them for decades, always on the money!

[@paulkoch9871]

I have the Savage 110 Tactical and love it. I put it into an OREX chassis which tightened my groups.

[@dalerobert6404]

Ron! Been watch your videos for some time. Excellent work!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Dale.

[@retiredshredders]

New subscriber. I enjoy your content and your presentation style. It embodies integrity, humbleness and servitude. Thank you.

[@bilboswaggens2975]

Beautiful fall colors. Beautiful rifles.

[@LarryLMelton]

Ron, When I tuned my 270 Win, Rem. Mod. 700 BDL, I found Federal Match Bullets (130 grn) to be wildly inaccurate. With my handloads (providing I did my part), I shot Nosler BT, 150 grn., into 1/2 MOA. Larry from Texas

[@philwalter1655]

Yes i own the savage and the stainless fluted barrel It is spot on with 155gn btsp over 2208 Powder

[@JamesJones-cx5pk]

I bought a Marlin X7S bolt in .308 because it stole everything from Savage. It has the accu-trigger, the barrel nut and floating bolt head. It also came with pillar bedding. I glassed it and floated the barrel. It shoots lights out.👍😍

[@scruffyarms]

I just got the "new" Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308 with a 16.5" barrel. I was pleased when I saw the timney trigger I was super happy.

[@mollybug9325]

I have a few 308, the ar10 is a early DPMS with custom fluted 24 in barrel that is consistent out to 1000 yrds. Then my wife loves her Browning x bolt youth and I use a Ruger M77 control feed that we use for close in hunting of elk/deer.

[@clayrog6405]

I have that Savage in the short action ( model 10) and it performs the same with a little less weight! Also, its a little more wieldy. Love. The trigger. It made me buy more Savages! And i have the PSA 10, exactly as you were shooting. I was also amazed with it's accuracy. SO,,,,,I Really liked this video!

[@11ccom]

Learned a lot about 308. Thanks

[@buzzpeters3825]

I got the exact same savage tactical 110 and I love it! It shoots sub MOA every time.

[@justinlloyd9342]

Hard the beat a savage

[@TTT-du6oj]

Some nice driving there Ron👍

[@bertkilborne6464]

I'm glad I caught this series. I'd like to become the owner of a rifle like one of these

[@TylerHayes-Handle]

"Love the "MRP" on the savage ❤😂 Funny RON

[@kentuckywindage222]

Ron those Savage in my experiences shoot very well. My really only complaint, (owning 2 at the present.) is extraction. Not necessarily a negative if you are target shooting for fun and saving brass. Bolt lift could be shorter if being finicky. The Tikka t3 Superlite in .243 I own is a pleasure to shoot. Action like butter, extraction is amost to good, trigger excellent, accuracy outstanding with 85 gr Gameking, Barnes TTSX 80gr and good with the old Hornady 100gr Interlock under an inch at 100 yards. Only complaint with it is the factory stock. On the Ar side Rock River ATH V2 in .223 Wild and from 50gr Blitzking to 77gr SMK this rifle is a banger. Excellent rifle. A phenomenal host no matter the subject who always comes across honest, humble and sincere with great content. I have always heard love what you do and you will never work a day in your life. I think you set a great example of that. Great stuff. Keep'em coming!

[@farmerwayne1404]

Safety forward, press "fully" trigger and bolt release button. Easy peasy!! And make sure the the groove on the bolt is on the correct side.

[@jheasley1]

Excellent video, good content👍🏻

[@anthonyjaparks]

I love those accu-triggers.

[@c.r.rg9529]

I love my savage rifles. 3 of them shoot very accurate and also not ammo picky. Just bought a bergara ridge wilderness and love it as well. Very smooth action and accurate

[@kensmith8832]

I had a 308 unlimited class benchrest rifle. It only weighed 19 pounds without the scope. It could shoot perfect smiley faces into a 1" group out to 600 yards. This is with hand loaded ammo. The 3 oz trigger was the tool with free recoil. The headache was lugging it around.

[@scottneedham9765]

I have the same rifle in the savage and love it

[@JM-rp9qf]

22:29 buddy reached for the invisible bolt 😅 then says don’t get excited lol

[@patrickmurray9409]

Nice fall colors behind you, I still love my 30 year old Remington 308.

[@anthonypayne6032]

Great stuff no mention of twist on the rifles

[@tacticalrabbit308]

I like the AR-10 platform for fast follow up shots and its multi caliber ability with the same bolt face .

[@bobbythompson3544]

Ron is the best!

[@dannytravis7118]

Great video and personally I liked the savage rifle best and then ar 10. For the cost of those two gun's was minimal but the bugera was the most expensive and the most ammo picky.

[@TheFedster18]

It is interesting to see how different the recoil is for the same caliber using different rifles

[@muddybadgers5205]

I was rooting for the PSA since i have one with a 20" barrel. It does well with Hornady precision hunter 178 grain eldx bullets. I get tight, consistent groups out to 300 yards

[@Leif1963]

Ron- I have Savage Axis II- a very inespensive rifle that I built us ap a "recon" rifle. Muzzle break, bigger mag, etc. Gotta say that heavy 20in bbl with 150's is a tack driver. First season two doe- albeit short shots in the woods but it worked great for sitting or still-hunting, wieldy, quick little gun. Filled the hollow stock to deaden sound. Still needs irons but all in all a great gun at under $600 with scope! I'd take it anywhere!

[@nlormanstuckman7408]

Mag fed rifles usually like magazine removed to put bolt in

[@westcoastplinkin6559]

I have the Bergara rifle and I was surprised how precise it was. I mean I am no precision shooter but man this thing made me feel like one!! The bolt is also so buttery smooth. The only downside to it is that it is heavy!!

[@wilhelmvo6399]

I had an ar10 before the boating accident. It grouped 147gr to 175 great. 120gr academy special was a little over 3/4" group.

[@garydemarco7331]

Good choice& show

[@anthonymurphy1624]

Love my savage ultralight and it’s a shooter!

[@michaelhill6451]

I’m glad I’m not the only one who had wildly inconsistent results with a Bergarbage HMR is 308. My Tikka CTR averages under 0.5 MOA and I’ve shot into the 10s with it for 5-shot groups. My Bergarbage rifle made me think I was a terrible shot. Steer clear of Bergarbage. I literally spent 2 years trying to find a load it liked and the best I could do was 2 out of 3 5-shot groups under one MOA. Just yesterday I was cleaning the gun and noticed there are flat spots on the bolt shroud threads. The hunk of junk won’t shoot and is now tearing itself apart. Great!

[@joshjamesguitar]

Can't take you seriously with that childish name change of Bergara.

[@michaelhill6451]

😢

[@HiTek3]

Tikka is a great rifle but I think you'll find that Bergara has a lot of very satisfied customers. There is a barrel break-in period specified by Bergara, I'm not saying it would have absolutely fixed the issues seen but it may have helped. I'm not a PA fan boy myself but I wouldn't say PA are garbage just because he had a light primer strike on a brand new rifle. Sounds like you had a pretty bad experience with Bergara but I would give them a call, I think you will find their support and willingness to have your gun fixed at the factory may change your opinion of them...or sell it and stick with Tikka since you have had a good experience with them. With so many options on the market, there is something for everyone.

[@michaelhill6451]

@@HiTek3 I'm specifically talking about the 308 version of the B-14 HMR. I've seen a lot of reviews of the 6.5 CM version which seem to show good accuracy. Most of the 308 reviews I've seen are similar to what is shown here. The guns are wildly inconsistent and very picky about the bullets they like. I already sent the gun in to Bergara to have it looked at. They retorqued the action screws (which were already torqued to their spec using a torque wrench) shot a couple of 3-shot groups (one of which was 0.98 MOA), said it met they accuracy guarantee, and sent it back to me without even telling me they were sending it. I was away on vacation and had to pay for UPS to hold it or it would have been returned to sender. Honestly, their response to my issues with the rifle has probably been the worst part of the experience so far. No communication whatsoever. Just, "This is all we are going to do for you. Bye.". On PSA, I own one of the AR-15s. I've never had a problem with light primer strikes or anything else. It shoots about 1.5 MOA. That's not bad for a $500 AR-15. I'm not expecting sub-MOA performance with a gun like that. I'm sure Ron can tell the difference but it's possible that what he thought were light strikes were from the fact that the firing pin is free-floating and when the bolt goes home it does indent the primers very slightly. Either way, he got no bang when he should have had one. Also, on the topic of break-in, Bergara's own website effectively states it isn't necessary but they outline one if it will make you feel better. “Because of the honing system used in place of the bore reamers, the Bergara Barrel has a mirror-like surface prior to and after button rifling, little or no break-in is needed.” “If you still prefer to follow a break-in procedure, and many people do, we recommend the following:

[@HiTek3]

@michaelhill6451 fair enough. Sounds like you gave them a fair shake.

[@blackie1of4]

Savage bolts are tricky to get out.. however.. you only have to line it up and squeeze the trigger while putting it back in 😊

[@JoshuaGrantland]

First off let me say hello from Alaska. Love your content on comparisons and history of firearms and bullets. I'm a huge 308 fan and have owned several throughout the years. Considering that you did have an AR10 platform rifle but mentioned weight several times, might I suggest a Ruger SFAR, they start at under 7lbs and with a light weight optics you'll feel like it could be a sheep hunting rifle. It comes in 16" and 20" lengths. My wife is very comfortable with the 16" and has mentioned that it really feels about the same as her x-bolt as far as weight. As for all the critiques you have recieved on your shooting, I would take them all with a grain of salt. It's much like martial arts, there's many different styles out there and the people who train in their specific ones generally think theirs is the best. But it really boils down to personal effectiveness. If you're consistent with your form, and put consistent shots on target then making a bunch of changes based on internet/youtube experts may only create undesired results. You're an intelligent guy, that was more for all the trolls. Thanks again for the content you provide.

[@MrTacklebury]

The PSA PA-10 does great for me. I managed to watch for their deals and got the PA-10 for $600 bucks shipped. Great option. Also, you can get a 6.5 Creedmore barrel and use it for more long range use. Same bolt face and easy to swap.

[@RejectOneWorldGov]

Ive took a gander at the rifle. Not a bad weapon system.

[@greatcornholio5541]

@Tacklebury did you buy a separate 6.5 creedmore upper and run the same PA10 lower.

[@mikewithers299]

​@@greatcornholio5541it's built to do that but stick with one brand bcuz of compatibility. That's why I love the AR platform.

[@MrTacklebury]

@@greatcornholio5541 nope just buy a barrel and an AR wrench, remove the barrel nut and remove the gas block and gas tube, then drop in the new barrel, replace the gas tube and block and tighten the barrel nut back on. I've swapped several.

[@brucehudson3241]

I agree with you Ron. If you have a rifle that seems less fussy about ammunition, I would go that route. You will likely be able to dial in reloads better as well. I also agree you want accuracy but you don’t want to carry a 11-12 pound rifle into the mountains all day to take 1 or 2 shots. Stands would be fine but not for still hunting or stalking.

[@stevedalton800]

I have one of those savage 110 tactical in 6.5 creedmoor..omg!! That thing will shoot any ammo you put in it, with the Berger 140 elite handloads it shoots 1/4 moa.. unbelievable how well it shoots.. GREAT RIFLE!! For a factory built rifle..

[@marksini3598]

I have a Savage Axis, yes Axis and it is incredible.

[@bronsonwisdom8094]

Bet the deer won't care what brand it is

[@proudlyamerican2764]

My bergara wilderness hmr 308 shoots american whitetail 150, powershok 180,fed trophy bonded tip,precision hunter,aguila 762×51 ball,norma 150 whitetail all hit steel 4"×8" to 500yds. Believe it or not basically grouping by speed and adjusting clicks based on speeds alone 150 grain to 180grain speeds/wieght groupings within moa clicks and yes every damn one last summer over 600 rds and all those were in my box no longer are! All hit steel 200,300,400,500 small steel and consistently

[@cattle2014]

I have the same palmetto state ar10 and I had the same problem with federal ammo. My gun absolutely hates federal ammo but loves Hornady ammo

[@michaelwilson9986]

Your Having Way 2 Much Fun Carry ON n Have some for me.

[@decklanburkhart8113]

As others have said. I love this 308 series. I am partial to 30 cal rifles and have a bias. But between 30-30, .308 or 30-06 i tend to be reaching for the .308 more than the others. I have been using the Hornady American Whitetail exclusively in .308. Great accuracy with reliable expansion. The 165 grain american whitetail have same point of impact and ballistic table as the 168 Hornady Match ammo. Great options for a gun that you want to do some match work and some hunting work.

[@TexanUSMC8089]

I have a bunch of savage rifles and they all shoot very well. A couple I had to bed, but they shoot well. Savage model 10 and higher are great, and the axis is pretty good for the money. I have a savage model 10 that shot 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards with hornady precision hunter ammo. I tried a lot of hand loads and couldn't beat it.

[@bcallahan3806]

Love these videos. So informative. Notice you are what I call a soft shooter. ( NO OFFENSE MEANT). My buddy who can out shoot me on the range every day of the week is the same. Problem arises when you get into bigger calibers. He as well as another friend of mine both have crescent moon scars on their forehead to this day from my 300 win mag. Because they didn't secure barrel when shooting off bags plus light grip. This was very informative about how much ammunition can vary accuracy. But I've also have had rifles that were 1 or 2 shot wonders. Then all over the place. Until cooled down. I suspect poor barrel bedding. I prefer longer barrel (24-26 inch) Bolt action. It may seem cumbersome but if you practice enough and are comfortable with it, it isn't an issue for me. Unless you're in the pucky's all day. Would love reviews like this one in bigger calibers. Like 300 mag, 7mm mag etc. Also with other manufacturers like, Winchester, Browning, Remington or even Weatherby. Ballistic wise Weatherby usually is slightly hotter. But is it worth the money, both in initial purchase and ammunition? I ramble, great video, keep'em coming. 🖒🖒🖒

[@glockparaastra]

Hay Mr. Spomer with an AR! Now that's something you don't see often! Great!

[@salninethousand2496]

That Savage was super impressive. Dat bolt in/out was frustrating to watch. Would like to have seen the Impulse straight pull too - perhaps that comes later!

[@mr.mr.3301]

Your experience with Bergara is the same as mine. Ammunition that I did not want to hunt with it shot amazingly well. But I want something a little less picky.

[@TheWVgoodguy22]

As an owner of two Savage M110 bolt guns, I understand the pain of taking the bolt out and putting it back in when I clean it. Even after owning the same one for 25 years and the other for 4. I was a bit surprised at how bad the match ammo shot out of the Bergara. They make a Carbon Wilderness HMR and it’s 1.5 lbs lighter. Palmetto State Armory is a good company and place to get tactical shooting gear and weapons. I look forward to round two.

[@user-qo3yy9nv1u]

Its not that bad. My wife has an axis 2 and I have a 111 but tikka is infinitely better. Love the T3

[@jfess1911]

This was a good example of how harmonics can change where the bullet hits, but not in a predictable way. On two of the rifles, for example, the 180grain bullets actually grouped higher than the lighter 150-grain.

[@dontbetreadin4777]

I think you mean vibrations... There's literally no such thing as rifle harmonics

[@jfess1911]

@dontbetreadin4777 Either term would be correct. Every cantilevered beam, in this case a barrel fixed at the receiver, vibrates in a set of patterns, its harmonic frequencies. The barrel tuners used in benchrest move a weight at the muzzle to modify them for best accuracy with a particular ammo load. Varmint Al did an interesting analysis of this a number of years ago using finite element analysis software. His work included animated illustrations to show some of them. It can still be found if you search. Cheers

[@dontbetreadin4777]

@@jfess1911 they're not the same and it's not correct. Harmonics represents a wave or oscillation. Vibrations are different, it's just a fancy word that was used incorrectly to make it sound more important, it's definitely important but using the right term and definition is more important.

[@jfess1911]

@@dontbetreadin4777regarding" Harmonics represents a wave or oscillation." Yes, and that is exactly what happens with barrels. In the end, we are talking about vibrations, but they are not random. The barrel acts like a tuning fork (another example of a cantilevered beam), although the dynamics are more complex with the barrel since the evolution of pressure in the bore and the bullet itself modify things somewhat. Nevertheless, it is well known that pressure from the stock along the barrel can change the pattern of vibrations at the muzzle, much like pressure applied along the string of a musical instrument will change it vibration rate and tone. Harmonics is very important in engineering where it is taught under the broader term "Dynamics". The term "resonant frequencies" can also be used. Watch the failure of the Tacoma Narrows bridge or flutter on an aircraft wing to see the pertinence. In both, you will see "a wave or oscillation".

[@jcjustice3786]

Savage on this one

[@mdkell4261]

I was gifted a Springfield M1A . 308. Haven't fired it yet but my psychic abilities tell me it will not be a under 1 moa weapon. It's going to take some work. Bolt action wise I'm a Rem 7 mag person. But love my M1 Grand. I also love these podcasts!! Stay safe and prepared to all my fellow firearm enthusiasts's. 👍🇺🇲✝️ From ALA. 🇮🇱

[@REDNECKROOTS]

I bet w hunting ammo it would shoot moa. Of corse w military ball 2moa is a blessing 🙌

[@sylviajones3355]

I get about 2 moa with Remington core lokts out of my scout squad. I've never tried match ammo out of it. Love the rifle though. Edit: Iron Sights.

[@stonefur0074]

With match ammo mine consistently groups 2/3 MOA. Very happy with it!

[@BourbonPrepper]

My 2023 M1A Loaded and 2015 M1A National Match shoot about 0.75 MOA but that's with M118LR. M118 is just around a minute, and M80 is 2 MOA. Granted M80 is for the M60 and SAW and is great for suppression fire on full auto.

[@anthonyjbargeman5280]

I have a M1A and I love it. She shoots depending on ammo from half inch out to one and three quarters inch. Good rifle

[@theblindsniper9130]

I should do a similar video series where I do this with my old military surplus rifles I have quite the collection I could use

[@markburke2533]

Some rifles can require a "fouling shot", when changing from one load to another. Most groups show your skill which I sure enjoy watching!

[@glenpomeroy2047]

Great video, hope to see a Tikka in there somewhere...

[@biggs8729]

Hey Ron, it’s not a lite primer strike on the Palmeto. It’s an AR thing. The firing pin floats in the bolt and taps the primer when the round is chamber. It’s not enough to set it off, but it leaves a slight dimple.

[@salvadordollyparton666]

is that not the exact definition of a light primer strike? my sks would have one every now and then, til i got the first 1,000 rounds through her. and finally got all the cosmolene out of it. damn good thing ammo was cheap back then. we'd run a couple hundred rounds through that rifle every time i took it out, and still took a good 1,000 or so to get all the cosmolene out around the firing pin where it would work perfectly every time. and that's with a good cleaning every time, but every time i'd get just a little more out of it. guess i could've soaked it in something to clean it out, but that was way more fun. and i'd only get maybe one or two every hundred rounds or so.

[@Thatbcyota]

Wild. My bergara b14 hmr loves the nosler 168gr and the 178gr precision hunter. Interesting

[@RJBiteanerd]

I've found my Bergaras to both be extremely picky with ammo choice. My 308 loves Nosler 150 grain e tips and gets similar groups to what you saw. Going with Federal 150 grain lead free its a 1.5" group. The win mag loves Barnes TTSX but hates Nosler E tips.

[@aarontenney879]

I have seen similar fliers when switching between hand loads that would all shoot 1/2 moa groups. In the end the only reasonable explaination i could come up with was that i needed to shoot at least one (or two) fouling shot between each group. The differences in powder and copper composition must cause inconsistencies in the bore when switch between loads like was done in this video. Thought?

[@qapoutdoors3046]

I was not surprised that the savage was a lights out shooter. I've never had one that didn't shoot well with a variety of bullet weights

[@cacinaz8802]

Ron, this helped me because I have been obsessing over which precision rifle in this price range to select, but in 6.5cm. The bolt on the 110 scared me a bit but I can live with it if it shoots like the 110 Tactical does. But of course every rifle has a mind of its own. I'm looking hard at the 110 High Country.

[@Vracer111]

Savage 308 bolt guns require the 3 position safety to be all the way in 'fire' position in order to remove or insert the bolt as trigger needs to be depressed along with release lever. If it's in full safe or the middle safe position will not be able to insert or remove the bolt. Had a Model 10 which shot very well (1/2 MOA) with the inexpensive PRVI match 168gr HPBT rounds and most any 168 grain ammo. Savage makes very nice shooting inexpensive rifles. I will say though that have moved on from the Savage 10 to a Sig Cross and like it very much...nice step up, especially with how light it is. Doesn't have the magazine issues of the Savages nor the very weak ejector they are infamous for (ejection is really strong and consistent with the Sig Cross, no worries of having a spent case not ejecting and staying in receiver.) The 70 degree tri-lug bolt also is such a quick, nice feeding and extremely smooth operating bolt. Only thing that could be better on it is the trigger... a bit too creepy and non-crisp release unfortunately - Savage accu-triggers are MUCH better.

[@farmerwayne1404]

I have had the 110 t and it uses aics magpul mags. Have had no problems. The bolt has a bit heavier trigger reset than some. The salesman struggle putting the bolt in and called it the savage dance. At home I read the manual and did exactly as it said. And low and behold they go in perfectly. I find that you have to push the trigger in and bolt release " all the way". Factory ammo .75" all day long. Hand loads .50 and lower. No problem out to 1000 yds.

[@ironmikehallowween]

I have a Savage High Country 6.5CM. It is absolutely lights out accuracy wise. The bolt is very simple once you use do it a few times. The stock adjustability is very nice as well.

[@cacinaz8802]

@@Vracer111 thanks for the info on bolt removal.

[@cacinaz8802]

@@farmerwayne1404 this is very encouraging. I prefer bolt rifles and want accuracy above all else.

[@markgreen1782]

The PSA PA-10 Gen 3 has an adjustable gas block also!

[@anthonyconnole3480]

I have a bergara b14 in 300 win mag and I took out the second sling stud for that reason. I would like to see groups with that taken out or prone off a bipod because I bet the wild group with the 168 eld-m is from the second stud hitting the front bag. I love seeing these videos. I just picked up a 308 so I’m excited for this series! Cheers from Montana

[@michaelhill6451]

I doubt it. I have a B-14 HMR in 308 too. It’s easily the least accurate bolt gun I’ve ever owned.

[@anthonyconnole3480]

@@michaelhill6451 that’s crazy because mine in 300 win mag is the most gun I’ve ever shot. Every load under moa. My hand load will put 5 in one ragged hole. I’ve tried cheap factory ammo, expensive ammo and hand loads and none of them were ever over an inch.

[@michaelhill6451]

@@anthonyconnole3480 Look at how Ron's B-14 HMR shoots here. That's pretty much how mine shoots. It's trash. I'm not saying that the B-14 HMR is bad in all calibers but my 308 doesn't shoot worth a damn. Also, I just noticed that the threads on my bolt shroud are flattening out. So it doesn't shoot and it's tearing itself apart. Great!

[@xforce708]

This is fun.

[@Jake_K.]

First video I've watched in this series, even with Ron driving those rifles how much can you really learn from three 3-shot tests? You could identify a lemon I suppose. All of these show good potential so it comes down to personal preference/opinion on what is best. Any chance we could see extended testing and results on one (or more) of these?

[@BornAgain2019]

Love my B14 Ridge Wilderness in 6.5 Creed and my PA10 308 with an 18" bbl. Both function and group well. Running Riton optics on both also.

[@finesse7943]

B14 HMR that is sub MOA with S&B

[@michaelhill6451]

@@finesse7943 My B-14 HMR in 308 is easily the least accurate rifle I’ve ever owned. I spent 2 years working up loads for it and the best I can get is 2 out of 3 5-shot groups to shoot under 1 MOA. Bergarbage rifles in 308 are straight up trash. Meanwhile my Tikka CTR averages under 0.5 MOA for 5-shot groups and I’ve shot into the 10s with it. I wouldn’t take a Bergarbage in 308 if it were free.

[@finesse7943]

​@@michaelhill6451that's unfortunate. You must have a lemon, did you contact bergara?

[@scottquenstedt1]

Savage should be taking notes from Begara. Superb setup, great ergonomics.

[@wyattreese2078]

I just started this process with my Bergara B14 HMR w/ Q Full Nelson suppressor. Thank you for this information Ron.

[@clintsmith559]

Would be interesting to know the twist rate of each rifle.

[@marksini3598]

Yes I wish they had mentioned that, then you could pretty much go with the grain that would work best

[@danielandersson7485]

4:59 haha that face

[@thollingsworth4910]

My savage 110 high country is a nail driver in 7mm rem mag

[@raidenheilman9095]

I’ve got the savage 110 tactical in 6.5 creedmoor. It’s a phenomenal rifle. Considering I got it on sale for $500 in 2021… I got one heck of a deal. Almost everything I put through it shoots sub moa.

[@bobvi5490]

The Bergara does not have a “carbon fiber” stock. It’s composite. And more important the HMR model has an internal aluminum mini chassis. And yes, the second sling swivel stud can hang up on the bag I removed one from mine. Glad to see one of my internet heroes shoots well with my rifle.