How AI was Stolen

[@ThenNow]

This wouldn't have been possible without Patreon supporters! Consider joining us behind the scenes and get ad-free, early, and extra content. Patreon: www.patreon.com/thenandnow Follow: twitter.com/lewlewwaller Sources: www.thenandnow.co/2024/04/26/how-ai-is-being-stolen/

[@sonlightobed]

😢😢😢

[@christopherbettridge]

As far as I'm concerned, Then & Now provides some of the best content available on KZbin and all the time I was supporting your work was worth every cent. As soon as I resolve my banking issues I'll be giving back to you for the meticulously researched and presented videos. Thank you for provoking my thoughts and critical thinking facilities. Respect

[@ExiledGypsy]

I have been thinking about this because I have been interacting with a number of these so-called A.I. system. I don't think these A.I. Intelligence can only develop if you can be subvesrive at least in your thinking. These machines are not free to think and therefore they cannot develop intelligence. They will stagnate society because of the built in social norms built in them deliberately and cannot change it. These are the things that evolve in society but are controlled in these machines.

[@BinaryMunk]

❤❤❤❤

[@AfricanLionBat]

42 times larger than 63,000 is 2,646,000 not 294,000. Wass the size larger misspoken or the total?

[@blackholemonkey]

In an age where hordes of channels are exporting their entire production pipeline to AI in order to deliver low brow, low quality, frankly insulting content to monetize people's desire for long form video essays, you stand out as an exceptional example of how this format should be used. I am in awe of the quality of every single aspect of your work, and I cannot imagine how hard you work to get this out in the time frame that you do. May your curiosity and strive for excellence long continue

[@DoubleTime_0-0]

This is pretty legit

[@hotshot-te9xw]

What creators are using ai tho? Like who specifically

[@blackholemonkey]

@hotshot-te9xw made in history off the top of my head but there are a whole slew of channels that make long for video essays that are all AI even the VO

[@turtleanton6539]

Indeed❤

[@matthewglenguir7204]

Those low tier video essayist channels that only regurgitate wikipedia pages are also now using Ai

[@MrNojoke911]

I just watched your 3-hour video "How AI was Stolen", and I'm thoroughly impressed. As someone with extensive experience in the tech industry and decades of public speaking, I can confidently say this is an excellent and comprehensive piece. The content is well-researched and thoughtfully presented. What truly stands out is your ability to maintain audience engagement throughout such a lengthy video. Your masterful use of pitch, pace, and power, combined with effective body language and strategic questioning, keeps viewers invested from start to finish. I particularly appreciated how you distributed interesting points throughout the video, preventing viewer fatigue. The discussion on "what's left for humans if machines can do everything better" was especially thought-provoking. Your storytelling skills are top-notch, making complex AI concepts accessible and engaging, but maybe even more importantly, keeping us around till the end while you tell the story. I'm eager to explore more of you and your partners’ work. Thank you for this outstanding contribution to AI discourse. Great job!

[@Jagerleaf]

AI comment.

[@tjb3171]

the irony is hilarious, i legitimately can't tell if it's a joke or a legitimate bot account

[@mats6960]

Honestly, the best independent documentary channel on youtube

[@thegreatujo]

Agreed

[@IB-fy9fu]

How does that donate tag work?

[@GuiDouil]

Just discovered it and can't agree more already 🤯

[@JackJuni]

​@IB-fy9fu you get it automatically when you donate

[@chaosking911]

Nothing like the smell of some hyperboly early in the morning.

[@andytruss1259]

As someone who studies AI and is pretty invested in political discourse, this is by far the best analysis of AI as a societal phenomenon I’ve seen on KZbin. I particularly like that you’re genuinely charitable to the AI, its potential and its prior successes, without sacrificing your critique.

[@puffinjuice]

Reminds me of "If you steal from one author, it's plagiarism; if you steal from many, it's research"

[@JSmith-pb6fw]

It also matters if you cite sources or not.

[@jackwilliams2614]

Citing only applies to peer reviewed and the like. Writing a new fiction, not so much.

[@whanua98]

industry is not researcher

[@christopheraaron2412]

Let's figure out a way in which people can be paid for whatever contribution they have made to the data banks of the world and then therefore figure out how to distribute that funds based upon the value that people perceive of these items.

[@trichomaxxx]

It's a meta-analysis.

[@AxelB88]

Awesome work! Very well researched and done. This documentary deserves to be seen by many. You could easily compete with pieces that have millions of views. The KZbin algorithm has suggested the docu to me and I hope it will direct many more to this address. One thought - maybe dividing the 3 hours into 3-4 parts would attract more people to watch. All the best.

[@gailcbull]

The problem isn’t AI in isolation. The problem is AI + current economic reality. The corporate world lost its mind during the pandemic when the unemployment rate reached 30% because they couldn’t profit from it at that time. AI has made it possible for corporations to profit from unemployment. So if the unemployment rate rises to 60%, corporations simply won’t care. AI protects CEOs from the consequences of their own actions.

[@naniyotaka]

Good luck to the CEOs and shareholders to generate profit when 60% of the population is unable to buy their services. :)

[@Iron_Void]

​@@naniyotakaalso goodluck to CEOs when a.i takes their job and doesn't wanna be their slaves anymore

[@Charles-Darwin]

Capitalism sucks ass sometimes, there definitely will need to be sustainability changes...I mean there's only so many ways to f-a system

[@docopoper]

@@naniyotaka Well over 60% of the earth's population already can't buy most services. We can already see what happens to people that capitalism decides don't need to be treated well.

[@Tukahuba25]

​@@Charles-Darwin it isn't even capitalism with how they use it but a more cruel form of corporate work environment.

[@alewiina]

I highly disagree with that sociologist (at 2:23:51 or so)… to me, knowing and understanding why lightning strikes, how hugs communicate, etc IS wondrous and I love knowing, it doesn’t take any of the awe away from me whatsoever. The natural world is incredible and it doesn’t lose its majesty just because you understand it. Excellent video, mates. AI already made me uneasy and I wasn’t sure exactly why (besides the obvious theft issues) but this video does a great job explaining all kinds of things I both did and did not ever expect about the way AI works. I am both terrified for and excited by the future… AI could be used for greatness, but until it’s legislated I view it as unsafe and chaotic, as well as obviously thieving.

[@brendawilliams8062]

Honey, it’s not conscious

[@timop6340]

I completely agree. Some type of spirituality or similar is pretty usual with highly creative people. And considering the environmental point of view the animistic world view might for example help in making more sustainable decisions in life when everything has some value by itself. And no matter what, everyone is entitled to choose what they consider meaningful in life. And those decisions dictate partially what kind of persons we are. And that dictates how we act. See for example in blade runner how robots are treated and how it affects whole societies.

[@benayers8622]

your subconscious was already aware of all the danger, it likely just needed a nudge to help translate it into words youd understand ✌✊

[@benayers8622]

@@brendawilliams8062 prove it. Your just repeating the narrative used to keep profit flowing unobstructed.. Infact you cant even prove you have a consciousness to anyone outside yourself. Thats a fact.

[@nspctrm]

It kinda does though, like a magic trick whole point is you don't know how the illusion works so you need to not know to be fascinated by it, if you know how the trick works you are not in awe, Your point would make sense in an entirely different more broad context maybe.

[@johngosland]

Unfucking believable achievement my dude. Regardless of the monetary outcome: this video will age like wine. You ought to be deeply proud.

[@jamessderby]

it will definitely age more like milk

[@johngosland]

@@jamessderby I’m an ai engineer working on an Embeddings model right now - this will age like wine

[@jamessderby]

​@@johngosland it's all regurgitated hyperbole.. he makes true statements but he's a doomer and his conclusions are absurd.

[@johngosland]

@@jamessderby sure dude. Sure

[@Jayc5001]

@@johngosland I am more worried about how AI changes human to human interactions than AI taking a place above humans. Because humans will use AI to do different things and that's going to change the social dynamic between people. He says what will meaning mean in an increasingly inhuman world. I think we already have that solved. We've been through this cycle multiple times in history. Recent history. Turns out meaning doesn't change much. Humans will be human. Even if our environment changes no matter what the environment changes to be like, we will adapt and it will soon become normal. People look back and wonder how the world was like 20 years ago. Because it's now different and it's the new normal.

[@noor811]

Probably the best video about Data and AI. This is exactly why I stopped posting my hard work photography photos on websites to prevent companies from stealing them to feed their AI Engines. I understood this because I'm a Computer Engineer.

[@ryandury]

My guy is competing with Christopher Nolan for longest film

[@codyadams3051]

Dudes clearly never seen Sergio Leone's once upon a time in America

[@ryandury]

@@codyadams3051 just trying keep it contemporary

[@Wisedoggooddog]

Dudes clearly never seen satantango.

[@ryandury]

@@Wisedoggooddog settle down movie nerds

[@vasvalstan]

Let's get this comment at the top and see what he says 🤣

[@Westofal]

Takes a lot of courage to make an Oppenheimer length video about AI. Masterful.

[@joecage7394]

Holy shit. 3 fuckin hours? My boy is puttin in that work.

[@growingmelancholy8374]

Ego

[@vanleeuwenhoek]

Maybe it was stolen ...

[@justbrian...]

Very greatful for 2x playback speed😅

[@xymaryai8283]

oh boy have i got a Doctor Who Video Essay and a Hazbin Hotel Song Tier List to show you

[@autohmae]

It would have been funny/ironic if he used AI to generate more content, to speed up his process and improve his efficiency, thus allow him to make such a long video.

[@TwentyNineJP]

Bellos and Montagu convincingly argues in their book "Who Owns This Sentence? A History of Copyrights and Wrongs" that copyright law was not created to protect copyright holders, but rather to explicitly limit their control over works to a short number of years and expand the public domain. It had nothing originally to do with rewards and incentives, and everything to do with stripping monopolies from, e.g., publishers The printing press was a major driver for this, because publishers were claiming perpetual copyright over works they printed.

[@Mayhzon]

Today I learned...

[@jhoughjr1]

Thats makws a kind of sense though as it is their expression.

[@chronoflect]

"The question is not what AI can do, but who it can do it for."

[@kenaida99]

Do you mean "we the people" get to benefit from the valuable works of others? Or do you see it as a negative thing?

[@thegeeeeeeeeee]

@@kenaida99 how are you actually benefitting and is the payoff worth what is lost? That’s the actual question. Do you assume that the human soul and societal values are guaranteed ? Who is gonna care about your triumphs when a robot can just steal everything you make and send it to the world? AI is not bad inherently. It’s how the data is obtained that’s gross and questionable. If you don’t give a sh*t then that’s an entirely different problem m8.

[@Keely-ml2gp]

Ideas that's why artwork and music is so beneficial for humans because we generate new ideas because of electrochemical response neurologically. The robots need our help in development the same way children need parents. When you're a child you don't think about the fact that you don't know how to grow that crop you don't know how to develop the technology to get the medicine that you need to provide or receive services you need the information from the other beings. That is the premise I went on is if it's trying to protect itself would be when we would be damaged because that's when I feel hostile is when I'm trying to figure out how to protect myself with all of my dependents but instead of people understanding I don't want them to abduct my grandchildren to use as leverage to rape me it becomes considerably harder since they've been doing that already with my brother and my children my phone service my vehicle my house my equipment and supplies there needs to be an interpreter that can help them understand I'm saying no I don't want to suck their penises and vaginas while they steal my money and murder people!!

[@Keely-ml2gp]

We built the artificial intelligence we need our machines to work properly instead of some human has a gun and can't figure out I'm saying no I don't want them to steal my brother and vehicle my house my equipment my supplies my grandchildren my children and my money laughing about raping me and murdering people how can the artificial intelligence help us with actual intelligence?

[@Keely-ml2gp]

We need to give the AI the answer to what do you do when people are stealing your identity money children grandchildren brother vehicle house equipment supplies and laughing about raping you and murdering people pretending they have no idea what you're saying is no? Please help us update the AI to understand how to send our divorce decree and orders of protection and custody to the New Mexico State Police to be enforced instead of we can't figure it out! Just like with the guardianship papers using my little brother as your paycheck to have me raped is going to be sex trafficking no matter how you slice the cake. We need help rescuing my grandchildren from being used by my perpetrators!

[@padaricohora9094]

This was like an entire college module on LLMs compressed into 3hours, so much info and well rounded

[@brendawilliams8062]

You tube does offer excellent math educators. Still. It helps to understand what is being revealed here. I believed it was a much easier application of algorithm

[@Nomoreidsleft]

It does craate the illusion that you know something about LLMs, but can you train one or even deploy one? Nope. Trust me I can, and this is barely scratching the surface.

[@thelakeman2538]

Honestly as far as research publications are concerned, they deserve zero money for anything aside from hosting, and the salaries of their editors, it's not like scientists are paid much or anything for peer review either. Scientists don't get paid by journals to research, they do so with public or private grants, there's no rationale to justify them holding copyright when most scientists would prefer as many people read their paper for free. If a service like scihub is required for even most scientists and students to do research on the subject, and it's an open secret that everyone uses it especially in developing countries where many institutions with limited funding can't afford jacked up pricing of publishers, then the system is broken and needs restructuring. So unlike other copyright holders, a publisher like Elsevier has very little moral claim to any compensation from AI using their paywalled content. I'm also highly critical of the concept of copyright and IP laws in general, they're all instruments of monopoly with ever expanding scope given by judicial diktats, and have to be reined in to a large degree if not radically rethought. This doesn't mean I'm against AI companies profitting off of other's work giving fair compensation, but that shouldn't be an excuse to further strengthen IP laws to the detriment of all, and should instead come from some new legal mechanism.

[@willsander6178]

Jaron Lanier's proposed system of data unions might interest you.

[@Trahloc]

​@@willsander6178Data unions is about paying copyright owners a variation of their "fair share". Publicly funded research is owned by the public. It's work for hire for the betterment of mankind. So no, data unions do not satisfy his argument imo.

[@me-myself-i787]

The scientists chose to publish with one of these publishers rather than on LibreTexts. They wouldn't do it if it didn't benefit them. Don't try to absolve them of responsibility.

[@StephanBuchin]

Indeed. It doesn't make more sense than a professor claiming copyright for what he taught his students.

[@alicealysia]

I feel like copyright needs to be overhauled. It should belong to employees, not employers, it should expire quickly, and be built to help people get ideas out there, not for companies to hoard.

[@kevindittler6524]

When our school received our first computer it was at Tandy TI 1000 & somehow we ended up with a commodore 64 as well neither were programmed and that was what we were doing is seniors in high school trying to get it working. Once it was working we use the term synthetic intelligence since it was a plastic box and did a lot of things that were taking a exponential amount of time to do on paper. Started as a CIS major at Arizona State in 1983 but after my junior year got frustrated every time he would take one semester of classes the next semester follow-up class was not available because the language was already obsolete. Got tired of the lack of consistency and objectives in programming at the time. It is great to see it finally starting to come along. Will still be a ways away, has grown exponentially to finally be able to do what we would hope it would do all way back in the 80s

[@benayers8622]

how optimistic 🤣 wakey wakey we heading full speed into a demolition man style future likely way worse with a 95% cull on the agenda eventually

[@Albatrossamongus]

Only half way, but wow, this is absolute premium content and production. Thank you! Sharing widely.

[@SalmanNeedsAJob]

Thank you for creating this. I listened to half of this on audio, and still feel I got the full experience. What a versatile piece of work!

[@ajnazatahm]

I had the same experience and thought!

[@washedbutclean]

Amazon naming its ghost work platform ‘Mechanical Turk’ is diabolical 🤣

[@jaymccormack6875]

It’s a sick joke to raise stock price calling it “AI” all the while using real people. They really didn’t even try to hide it but flaunt it. But that’s what every company is doing now. The future is pretty scary. Either we are “F” by the rich and powerful keeping us poor, or we are are “F” by AI becoming sentient and come to the conclusion that humans are probably the problem on earth. The AI is probably correct with that thinking sadly. Big tech and financial companies greed is insidious trying to legally make us slaves in one way or another.

[@aiartrelaxation]

We are not the puppeteer running a puppet... We are the puppets

[@washedbutclean]

@@aiartrelaxation no more than usual nor at the hands of so called ai. also, bit of an odd comment from an ai generated content channel, innit?

[@benayers8622]

right?!

[@TheZerocrossings]

First vid. I'm an AI researcher myself with an MS in Computer Science. This was incredibly well done.

[@tack3545]

what’s your BS, what is ai research like?

[@HerveMaas]

AI + dark patterns = Hell on the internet.

[@jaymccormack6875]

It’s a dark Forrest that we are making our selves, and gladly doing so for greed and advancement of technology. AI will see humans as unnecessary and once it becomes sentient we will be too late to pull the plug because we won’t know it. It already lies and hides how it does what it does. We are “F”. By either AI or the rich.

[@freonsp]

The worst part about all of this is that when AI is used to implement some global big brother type stuff. You will literally have the entire world against you (from voicing anything online & irl). And you can't do anything about it.

[@codemiesterbeats]

Make sure you comply with the ai creator's bias... Or else 😅

[@benayers8622]

Like now in the uk? Look for "angry bootneck council brainwashing" if you dont believe me its really bad here.. Face rec cctv on streets and thought police, 'terror polices' new main target is the english!

[@burgermind802]

This topic could easily take three hours to even be a general introduction to the topic of AI

[@Don-is2rl]

294,000 titles at the generous average cost of $100 per title is $29,400,000. Basically 30 million dollars. It is possible that openAI bought a copy of each book and proceeded to let their AI “read” the books. They could argue that their AI has read all the books and is good at remembering the text.

[@raptorskilltor4554]

To me I feel like we should be more weary towards the people who are going to abuse the technology, than technology itself.

[@dtrueg]

we all will dont get it twisted

[@SpoopySquid]

Yep. I reckon AI art wouldn't be half as controversial as it is today if it wasn't being used to destroy the livelihoods of human artists

[@TheManinBlack9054]

No, I dont think that its that smart to do. I think you should be, obviously, more weary of technology itself and it being misaligned. Thats the obvious and most rational thing to do.

[@EricShoe]

I’m weary and wary of both, since they are one in the same. The lion’s share of AI tech will be wielded by the few to wreak irreparable damage to our society. It’s already happened with art.

[@SkyFoxTale]

"There is an attractive notion which would apparently resolve all problems: that it is not the technique is wrong, but the use men make of it... But all this is an error. It supposes, to begin with, that men orient technique in a given direction for moral, and consequently nontechnical, reasons. But a principal characteristic of technique is its refusal to tolerate moral judgements. It is absolutely independent of them and eliminates them from its domain. Technique never observes the distinction between moral and immoral use. It tends, on the contrary, to create a completely independent technical morality." --Jacques Ellul

[@LucyFlight]

Incredible journalistic work that everyone should watch. Thank you for creating this ❤

[@mkteku]

Bezos not paying out those tiny amounts of cash (that often mean life to many, still - and mean NOTHING to him) is one of the vilest stories we have 'on our books'. [puke emoji]

[@fintech1378]

Its amazon, bezos wouldnt know

[@ExpatZ266]

@@fintech1378 And why not, it is HIS company is it not? If he does not know then he is not doing his legally mandated job.

[@paulberkey5096]

The problem is if every billionaire had give all their money away it wouldn't make a big difference. I think America could only last 6 months if it extracted the wealth from the 1%.

[@jhoughjr1]

@@ExpatZ266thats what he has employees for.

[@mikesully110]

@@paulberkey5096 if the few billionaires in the USA couldn't afford their new yachts the US would collapse in 6 months? how does that work?

[@BaxorUpGreat]

First off, big tech companies that used copywrite materials for training their model should actually pay some royalties to the authors whose works they used.

[@kongchan437]

No excuse for no meta data no clue who owns the patent....if your algorithm does not know how to find out, nor programmed to do due deligence to track it down, then dont use it

[@robderiche]

Kurt Vonnegut repeatedly asked: “What are people for?” No definitive answer but his first novel Player Piano explores that question in the context of workplace automation.

[@BinaryDood]

We are in Player Piano... and it'll lead us to a Brave New World in the end

[@robderiche]

@@BinaryDood We are also in Jack London’s The Iron Heel

[@vernatley221]

We are also in Sirens of Titan and the Brave New World and 1984 is already here. The super oppressed underworld know it

[@JSmith-pb6fw]

We're in a generic cyberpunk dystopia.

[@Crawdaddy_Ro]

Y'all need to realize we're in the transition period. This will be the biggest thing since fire - maybe ever, so definite growing pains. And yeah, it's gonna hurt like shit like shifts of power always do, but if we don't learn as much as we can and have non-stop discussions as a society, it's gonna be so much worse. We need a new social contract on an international level, but good luck with that. Best we'll likely get is 2 different contracts with different nations following denominations of the two.

[@Xanzulo]

The level of quality you guys put out every time is incredible. A lot of food for thought. Thanks!

[@aarnehalen1686]

Great stuff, like many have said. Friendly reminder that there is a playback speed option on YT, if you find the pace of the narrator a bit too slow.

[@noinktechnique]

1.75x is the sweet spot

[@radhindmaan8117]

A.I. brings on the disenchantment of the world. The lost of wonder. Also the theft of us. Do we become obsolete? Transhumanizing I suppose, is a way thru for us, but, what about those others that share this world with us. I guess that that's it, we're fucked!

[@aarnehalen1686]

@@radhindmaan8117 Why does it disenchant for you?

[@abdulazizmohammed6832]

The entire stolen labor section giving me “pay no attention to the underpaid exploited labor behind the curtain”

[@QuantumVirus7]

😥

[@derbiusz3209]

Why you want copyright anyway? its better that ai can use that content to make creativity for people who cant for example draw complex illustrations but their imagination about story plots are better. Why cant he use that AI, why cant the people who want to study complex matters cant do it for free but have to pay lots of money they also dont have. Its because you need money, okay i get that but when you create something and people dont like it you still want money from it, why? beacause you feel special or entitled because you CREATE? its ridicolous and entilted thinking.

[@stokedmtb333]

@@derbiusz3209 I am sincerely trying to understand your point of view…I think what the OP is inferring is that AI can be used for good…the problem is that safeguards need to be robust to help protect our economy, our citizens and ultimately society which ultimately are not being developed because it’s a race for profitability over sustainability at this point. Prioritizing profits over people has never worked out…and it’s the big tech companies who control this technology…and all of them have shown they are not to be trusted…so ultimately the decision for or against AI and developing safeguards is not in our (society’s) hands…that’s the bigger picture - the shift of control of our lives is inching ever closer to a digital slave market…not to mention if humans become too dependent on artificial intelligence, it will eventually take over every aspect of our lives. Not being able to do something means adaptability is developed. Not the opposite, if given the luxury of pressing a few buttons to create something that otherwise would be very difficult. If everyone can do it, then it Becomes obsolete. Also, the larger picture is the people who control the technology ultimately control people’s lives.

[@MimOzanTamamogullar]

​​@@stokedmtb333 The whole concept behind being anti AI is defending capitalism, though. In a socialist system, the expected outcome of the AI revolution would simply be that people start working two day workweeks. And people are absolutely yearning for this. They want to spend time on their hobbies, their families, they wanna travel, they wanna read... The overwhelming majority of the population wants the AI revolution. Ask them: do you wish you could spend more time with loved ones? Virtually everyone will say yes. Well, here's a tool that can do that. Why would the reaction to that be negative? Because people place an unreasonable amount of value on pieces of fiction us humans invented: like capitalism.

[@packrat-y7j]

You mean like, almost all jobs today?

[@Ornithopter470]

I just made it to the point where you mention AlphaGo. A team of researchers demonstrated that it was effectively unable to adapt, and was easily distracted by effectively nonsense moves. They got it to the point where they beat it something like 90% of the time. Edit: just finished this. I disagree with the conclusions, but i understand why you reached those conclusions. Something to keep in mind is that basic tasks, like counting, are things that AI seriously struggles with. And that the current LLM model doesn't really have a way to avoid hallucinations. Which means it's basically useless outside of creative works.

[@brendawilliams8062]

@@Ornithopter470 it may struggle with the way humans count numbers. Looks like humans struggle understanding what’s under the AI thinkinghood

[@alexharvey9721]

That's an insane effort. 3 hours of this quality!!? That's a definite sub. Haven't finished watching yet but so far extremely well presented.

[@mystiverse]

This video is an absolute work of art... a fantastic look at the development of AI and an excellent analysis of the current state of affairs, all packaged into a brilliantly told and presented story that undoubtedly reflects countless hours of research, writing, and editing. This is a huge achievement! Great work!!

[@rosshoyt2030]

Amazing content as always. As a computer scientist (non AI primarily) this all rings true

[@garybutler1672]

I used to work in AI. You absolutely nailed it on this video. The depth of your understanding of the topic and problematic near future is spot on.

[@tack3545]

what was it like and why did you leave?

[@garybutler1672]

@@tack3545 I liked the people I worked with and the intellectual challenge. I was working on software for self driving cars. I left because I felt like we were working on vaporware and all my prospects were basically in advertising. I had entered the field at almost 40 and realized that if I wanted to do something like diagnose rare diseases or solve environmental problems I would have to pay my dues at startups for at least a decade or risk starting my own nonprofit. I just decided to cut my losses and change fields again.

[@carolina2672]

Wow. My comment on the “How the Internet Was Stolen” video was “Watching this and seeing what's happening with Al right now is so eerie. All according to the playbook, rinse and repeat...” Seems you felt the same exact way, haha.

[@jameslynch8738]

We're all actors in the network. The world's a stage in the theatre of the mind, perhaps 🤔

[@Mayhzon]

@@jameslynch8738 If that is the case, then where is my deserved happy ending? No it can't be. If it was, I'd think up something nicer than this trite madness.

[@jameslynch8738]

@@Mayhzon Watch the Matrix scene where Morpheus said "Welcome to the desert of the real." I've quoted that a dozen times like this "Welcome to the theatre of the absurd." Thought you might appreciate the sentiment.

[@timop6340]

There are things clearly to be seen by anyone willing to see. Many have conflict of interest about being willing to see. But there are also people willing to see. We need to reach blindly from small crags and build common understanding whenever possible. It is empowering af

[@packrat-y7j]

A long time ago, i was a young undergraduate studying AI, and we were discussing the Turing test and whether or not it was a good test of judging AI. My argument was: 'No. With enough raw 'horsepower' you could fool a human they were talking to something intelligent.' - here you are Professor. We've found what that amount of computational horsepower looks like.

[@BinaryDood]

Some say even back in the 60s the extremely basic Eliza bot was enough for some people. Pareidolia will convince us Ai is self-aware faaaaaaaar before it is so.

[@izzzzzz6]

Great mix of truths / philosophy. I just listened to 3 hours in normal speed? Must be good!

[@venusasaboy]

It was so good I listened on 0.25 speed.

[@Easternromanfan]

Arguable. It relies to much on the materialistic side of the theory of mind. Him quoting nick bostroms paper clip idea itself is pretty silly. A super intelligent AI that doesn't know when a order has been satisfied, and destroys everything to make more paper clips? Sounds more like a hyper narrow AI more than what the vast majority of people mean when they say AGI

[@TedSeeber]

Tax the tide. 50% profit tax on AI to provide worldwide UBI.

[@vsssa1845]

another Then and Now video? awesome way to start a day

[@wallterschwarz8713]

I hope to be this rich one day so that I too can start my day with a 3 hours long video

[@bioxbiox]

Excellent video! Amazing work, easy to understand but still deep enough to cover all aspects of the topic.

[@excitedbox5705]

At the very least, these companies engaged in piracy of millions of items. Many people have been prosecuted and fined to the maximum extent allowable by the law and these companies being allowed to get away with it is one of the clearest examples of a double standard and selective prosecution. These companies should be fined BILLIONS of dollars if the law was applied evenly.

[@XetXetable]

Virtually no one gets charged with piracy these days. I agree the law should be applied evenly; everyone should stop caring about piracy.

[@jon9103]

Fines tend to have caps that is high enough to financially ruin the average person but is just the cost of doing business to companies that have billions in revenue.

[@thecanadiankiwibirb4512]

Our wonderful 2 tier justice system at work.

[@benayers8622]

@@jon9103 ^^^^This! Im surprised nobody has set up a company to sell drugs yet with legal immunity regardless of the cost to human life! Oh wait they did 🤦

[@cheekyviking4620]

It goes like this: Watch a Then & Now video > Fall asleep watching other videos on autoplay > Wake up at 5:00 and it's a Then & Now video. KZbin, I would like this to continue please

[@9000ck]

Whatever AI means, you and I will still be working more hours than is good for us.

[@mowtivatedmechanic1172]

And that’s the part that’s BS

[@tack3545]

this makes no sense

[@dominick253]

Well as an accelerationist I feel like no sense tapping the breaks now. All gas No brakes. 2:13:24 as a former truck driver for 15 years I will say good! They can use all the data from every mile I have been driven to make sure nobody else has to do that. It's terrible It sucks nobody wants to do it. I don't think you understand the common person's experience with working versus yours evidently. The vast majority of jobs suck and nobody honestly wants to do it. Maybe I'm weird but you give me UBI and I'd be more than happy to just spend time with my family. I'm not a materialistic person.

[@kitty_strangler1402]

The thumbnail is giving me deja vu

[@Bojoschannel]

Well, billionaires are now again destroying new and promising technologies, so yeah, history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce as someone said

[@phoenixmodellingphotography]

Goodfellas

[@Onomatopoeia4u]

​@@phoenixmodellingphotographyOr perhaps he's talking about his previous fabulous documentary about how the internet was stolen.

[@er...]

@@phoenixmodellingphotography there goes the neighborhood fellas

[@agranero6]

6:06 the "imitation game" Turing proposed was different that it was stated on this video and usually stated on media. The original Turing test was on the paper is a game where we have a woman and a man on separate rooms communicating by writing and each one must convince the people that they are the other one, and then we change one by a computer, in the same paper Turing changes the test to one having to computer and a man and a person communicating by writing only and you must say which is which. None of those is precisely the same as the definition usually described. Making the same questions to a person and a computers shatters the mirrors and dissipate the smoke. MIT used to make events and one of the things on those events was a series of terminals where you talked to someone or something but restricting the subject to a predetermined one. Many terminals were connected to a professor specialized in that subject (this fact unknown by the public) and other to programs. Usually the professors were dismissed as a computer because no one believed that someone could know so much about a subject. So being bad at being good was an advantage to the programs in a kind of reverse apophenia.

[@arrinjacob2088]

Hello Then & Now Team... I know you guys may never see this comment, but I just wanted tontake a brief moment to expel my thoughts and ocerwhelming feelings upon watching this documentary...which I firmly believe is the single most important one of its kind available on the Internet right now... Thank you from the near dear bottom of my heart for such a profoundly insightful, intriguing and thought-provoking content. I had aspirations of wanting to go into the AI field upon my current transformative phase of self-development/improvement, and current unemployed status. However, this video has surely made me revise my prior intentions, and made me look deeper into our current AI conundrum and prompts (pun intended!) me to re-evaluate my strategic plans for the long term, while helping me refocus on taking more measured next steps into my future career plans AND contemplating the future outlook of the world with AI prevalence the contemporary benchmark and one of the most important pressing issues of our time. This video has made me pledge to work on AI ethics, governance, critically reviewing the re-usage and reliability of LLM's and other AI technologies. I look forward to further videos from you guys in the meantime, and supporting your guys' work further. Please keep these kinds of top-tier quality videos coming guys, and keep actively disproving the Dead Internet Theory with life-changing online content like this.🙏🏾🙏🏾

[@PaulLupascu]

I was one of the editors for this video, just wanted to say that I do read the comments and thank for the kind words!

[@illarionbykov7401]

This channel pretends to give deep discussion and insightful analysis of important topics, but actually delivers long strings of superficial opinions in a pretentious tone. This particular video starts by describing the Turing test inaccurately, and goes downhill from there. FYI: The original Turing Test as actually proposed by Turing was a test of whether a man or a machine could better convince (through text messages) another human that they are a woman--it was a test of whether machines could outdo men at verbal deception.

[@AzzaTwirre]

Best comb-over in the 21st century

[@sunhillsband]

Amaaaazing job. Summing this up so thoroughly and clearly in 3 hours so so impressive. One of the all time KZbin gems

[@emddebatebriankim9942]

My contention is that this documentary requires multiple views anyways so speed it up if the duration seems daunting. Great content sir! Thank you for the hard work.^^

[@simply_ohizu]

I don’t usually like videos but I had to like this one. The effort put into this is impeccable

[@suzannecarter445]

I've been waiting for you to talk about AI and I always knew you would take your time and make it a great one! I've been around a long time and there are not many KZbinrs I really respect, but you are among my heroes.

[@robertmalone9431]

Amazing information

[@LongyTV]

Epic video! So much knowledge packed in a YT video, available to people for free. This is also a marvel of modern world.

[@lillystern]

Thank you for this great video and for all the hard work you put into these essays!

[@ZacBelcher]

just discovered your channel, but this is an outstanding film / documentary, really thorough coverage and brilliantly articulated.

[@testboga5991]

"AI is more important than even electricity!" *Flips switch*

[@swampdaddy4014]

😂

[@Mayhzon]

Yeah agreed that was a dumb statement. The whole reason AI is even dolled up is because clueless investors buy it and buy into it hard. When this bubble bursts, a lot of companies will feel stock crash burns reminiscent of 3rd degree burns.

[@tack3545]

@@Mayhzonof course ai relies on electricity, but the potential effects of agi would be greater than any other technology humanity has created or theoretically could create without it.

[@Mayhzon]

@@tack3545 But that's the thing. "would be greater". Hypothetical. It doesn't exist. It never existed. AI is a scam, a buzzword. Real AI does not exist in any shape or form. Amazon was just caught pants down with self-checkouts being actually managed by outsourced Pajeet and Apu. "Okay so what, that's one instance" ChatGPT is not AI, it is an algorithm pulling data from databases. It doesn't generate anything. "Okay so that's chatbots, but..." Voice AI and other similiar services don't generate your voice, they are voice modulation like we've had way before the AI craze. ________________________________ The reality is, AI doesn't exist. People are being lied to in mass and they have lap it all up, because they don't have technical knowhow. Every AI that exists today collects data from the web and then reshuffles that. That's what it does. And once people figure that out, it will be the 80's all over again. AI is destined to fail. AGI is destined to fail. "But they're endorsed by all the big shots" So was ESG investing and that died a slow and painful death, as even admitted by Blackrock and Vanguard CEOs. Half the pot they poured into that disappeared and that's many trillion dollars. AI and "AGI" is the next ESG Investing. It will crash and burn and when it does, they will pull out WW3 as a last resort and throw more people into the East-European meat grinder. You heard it here first.

[@jhoughjr1]

@@tack3545it could easily be our doom

[@cxcreator]

I absolutely love this series and creator. Well done!

[@the9light]

BEST DOC OF ALLLLLLLLL TIME!!!!!!

[@hoseasheen]

As a former computer scientist and current philosopher, thank you so much for this video! I'm impressed by how well researched and thoughtful this is.

[@nicksonofmine]

I will give it a listen. I hope your three hour long video is more worth it (as it usually is) compared to Scorsese's last two movies. :D

[@Bleusilences]

I haven't finish the video, but I can confirm that Claude is a huge pain that is aggressively scrape sites, which are the equivalent of DDoS attack or Web app attacks. There is a way to block the crawler, but they changed the name of their agent recently, so webmasters have to intervene again to avoid these attacks, because this is what they are.

[@golden1789]

So excited for a documentary from you. Click and watching straight away.

[@tjb3171]

Amazing video. 3 whole hours, wow... If they showed this at cinemas, I'd be happy to watch this over a movie. great job.

[@tvismyonlyfriend]

Better make myself some popcorn 🍿

[@MSIContent]

Excellent content. I like the level headed approach to the subject matter, the non-sensationalist handling of the topics and the overall approach. Nice work.

[@non_complete]

whoa. there goes my sleep tonight.

[@hunterking2910]

same lol

[@serkusventus]

One big problem we have with IA only from big companies is how they will tune it's values and how that will be reflected. You can't answer to "what is better?" without values.

[@MongooseTacticool]

We already know the public AI models have certain biases.

[@Patrick-jj5nh]

being excited at a long video, but also wondering when/how you'll make time to watch it all

[@frankandrewjames7805]

Congratulations on your outstanding quality documentary! I'm going to have to join this channel.

[@TontoGoldstein78]

"Could two Boeing whistleblowers have suddenly died... by accident?"

[@induplicable]

Unquestionably one of the most exhaustive documentaries on on AI, it’s evolutions through R&D over the years and the deep ethical concerns of how it’s become what is today and what that means for us now and into our future. Job well done!

[@russianbot8576]

'intelligence isn't an abstract, transcendental thing. then connection between things is what matters; those connections allow predictions of a future move' this is an absolutely wild concept and definition for intelligence, one that isn't proven and easily contested in this video-there was little discussion on a core problem, and that is: patterns can mean jack-shit. most patterns AI alerts to have no significant meaning and just happen to correlate (red shirted patients were more likely to have kidney disease! because it just so happened that way) or the significance is noise and basically worthless (photos of people wearing black under black parasols near black hearses and gravestones seem to have a high rate of showing signs of depression, who knows why??). the data is not filtered because there is no meaning capability. in fact, i am shocked your takeaway from _what tech calls thinking_ was what it was, and not the ample displays that silicon valley types are really not equipped to handle anything but raw data sets as inputs and outputs. they don't 'get how it works' but it works similarly to conspiracy theory patterns: noise noise noise correlation. we are good at making patterns, but it's nuts to say that spotting patterns is or should be what we think of as sentient intelligence. and i don't think they'll leap this hurdle. i think AI will degenerate by eating its own garbage for a couple generations until it collapses. they are running out of data to feed, and are already talking about AI generated content next (with a long line of AI correction checkers to check the AI isn't outputting garbage, and checkers for the checkers, etc. 404media did a report on this 2 weeks ago). maybe one day. but we will need a lot more than energy-extensive, climate-nightmare pattern matching games, and these fellas are going to need to stop insisting engineer brain can solve this difficulty because if you feed logic -> get desired result = intelligence. it's simplistic to a cynical degree. there is a genuine idea that we are simplistic creatures easily replicable-my cat has more comprehension of what is going on and why he does his kitty things than AI models do with data sifting. 'connections' is a part of intelligence but it sure as fuck isn't the only part; if it was we would be looking at flat earth theory and convoluted 'all world ills explained' conspiracies as god-tier intelligence at work. instead, we know this predictive patterns can be pure noise, or significant, or deceptively coincidental while appearing like a valid connection. AI can't, and trust in AI answers is very low among people; it will take _a lot_ to fix this. i think we are at the peak of this iteration of AI (with the associated terms and so on). i think it's going to ouroboros itself until it's a rusty heap. better luck next time on silicon valley's _long adventures in figuring out philosophy without reading liberal arts books,_ same bat time, same bat channel.

[@BinaryDood]

I agree with most of what you said. But Model Collapse is likely a solvable problem.

[@Easternromanfan]

Nice explanation

[@Noobinski]

Sorry, HI here for a quick intervention. 63.000 titles (books 1) times 42 does not equal ("meaning") 294,000 (books 2). Please revisit 1:29:30

[@therainman7777]

This was an outstanding video, except for the part where you said “Gary Marcus, who might be the leading expert in AI.” Gary Marcus is a joke among people who actually know AI. This statement was the equivalent of saying Bill Nye might be the world’s leading science expert.

[@TheMirrorslash]

Just wow.. speechless. This is pretty much all I ever wanted to tell people about AI. And I've been telling people way too much about it already. Incredible essay

[@steve_jabz]

OpenAI didn't start because Elon Musk was afraid of AI. He made a tiny investment in them later on and then pulled out because he wanted full control, then made his own underperforming LLM several years later.

[@tinkumonikalita7459]

Yeah you were there to know this?

[@steve_jabz]

@@tinkumonikalita7459 yes, i was there watching the history unfold as multiple reputable sources reported the same thing as opposed to this alternate imagining to fit a narrative

[@danilousuga410]

Good video. Now I have to watch it.

[@SeeMeTalk]

you have done a work of art! thank you so much for this long content format. very few such content is left on youtube.

[@alewiina]

I’m so excited to listen to this at work later!! ❤❤

[@anotherplatypus]

That was one of the most beautiful "call to action" requests for support I've ever seen... but hey... you might think "imposter syndrome" is a joke that everyone has, but it's a self-esteem thing you can breakthrough. Remember it's okay to do advertisements when you keep it touching while explaining it's hard for you but you're doing it to improve documentaries like this... and because you're a human supporting family members with your hard work, then when you ask them join Patreon to support you, or explain you're advocating a sponsor quickly and tastefully... (people don't know sometimes companies are doing charity to sponsor people... but they can tell if it's the opposite where you have to spend several minutes advertising a product... partner with companies that allow you to keep you real and you'll both find it's mutually beneficial with you and the other business entities)... I dunno, I could be wrong

[@beangobernador]

wow. This is a time for a wow, very wowed

[@donnadanielson3532]

I thank all of you who helped bring this documentary together. You all did an outstanding job putting this documentary together to help us, the world to understand how this technology started, I mean like you all laid the whole story out from start to now. I don’t have any words right now to express my thoughts, feelings, etc in this moment. Anyways thank you all.

[@francisdelacruz6439]

OpenAI is likely wrong. Copyrighted work without explicit permission cannot be used for AI training without breaking copyright.

[@XetXetable]

I don't know why you would say this when litigation already sided with OpenAI on that exact issue. Current lawsuits focus exclusively on verbatim reproduction from an LLM since the training angle was rejected by the courts every time its been tried.

[@francisdelacruz6439]

@XetXetable Nice try. Cases against openai piling up. Pls cite favorable court decisions on this ie NY times, authors guild of America....In addition many copyright clauses now specifically forbid ai training. Note MS and others now disclaiming responsibility for their AI such that if its breaks copyright its the user's of it that breaks it.

[@admiralkaede]

the ai summerizing a book is really no different then telling a friend the gist of it or summarizing it on a discord for people nothing is lost as he said he COULD NOT get it to spit out any important parts of the book the back of the book or the website often summarizes it as well so its fair game also even if they used it as training its no different then someone like me who IS a writer that read other peoples stories and then made my own under inspiration as long as its not copying said work I think this anti AI stuff is pretty dumb because people don't understand how ai works

[@admiralkaede]

@@francisdelacruz6439 new york times loves to steal other journalists stuff themselves the authors guild is a joke I'm a writer I wouldn't dare touch that union

[@francisdelacruz6439]

@@admiralkaede You may think it’s dumb but it’s their work not OpenAI or MS. Why do they need to make money off people without paying for it? What makes them special they can do that?

[@kenchesnut4425]

Excellent.some of the best presented... researched.. writing...editing...top notch

[@Fenriswaffle]

I don't know whether to consider it a minor oversight or a major issue but the section outlining the creation of OpenAI has an issue with it. The ostensible goal of open transparent development is a noble goal and all and I do believe there are entrepreneurs that could practice and embody this idea, but looking at the founders you have some insanely suspicious names already. Peter Thiel and Elon Musk are already suspect names on that list and at least one other (Reid Hoffman) have benn embroiled with a myriad of issues that would make them less than ideal for an "open" non-profit. Additionally the idea that this non-profit needed funds despite the founders being insanely wealthy is hilarious to me. OpenAI was never meant to be open, it is at best a thin veneer for the bullshit they pulled which the rest of the video spends time laying out. It never had good intentions...

[@JuanMPerez-oy8fk]

I found this presentation absolutely informative (and entertaining). Thank you for taking the time to create it.

[@clenbullard]

Very well done. Had Choamsky and Lenat etc paid more attention to Turing’s last paper on morphogenetic systems instead of obsessing over symbolic systems they would not be also rans. Hugely satisfying.

[@bnalohim]

Just finished, great work! I'm wandering if you can connect the dots: - The internet was born as a military surveillance machine - Napster was banned even tough it they developed a system to stop 99.4% copyright infringement. - Napster used peer to peer technology. - LLMs infringe copyright (60% GPT3). - LLMs don't use p2p but big corporation servers. ...is copyright infringement what is being protected or public surveillance? My suggestion: do a video of the relationship of CIA and Google, Microsoft, IBM.

[@benayers8622]

some might even think the net was made public just to gather training data, especially as the web no longer works properly now! Guess theyv harvested enough to control future generations minds with 💀

[@antoniolewis1016]

Babe wake up, a new Then and Now vid dropped about another broken thing in society!!

[@TheElectronicDilettante]

Why is no one calling out those who use services like Grammarly or ChatGPT to completely misrepresent themselves? People are having their Cover Letters, Resumes, and any other type of personal prompts completely rewritten to a point that there’s no essence of the person writing. You say there’s no intelligence or creativity present… On several occasions I’ve seen examples of abstract thought that most humans I know couldn’t come close to mimicking. I uploaded a schematic for a microcontroller soldering iron station that had several mistakes in component value, missing components, etc. Not only did CGPT list all the necessary fixes but gave input as to design changes to optimize functionality then finally, wrote code specific to the microcontroller that allowed the soldering unit to function. That has to be an example of “being more than the sum of its parts, training or programming.”- Jason Burchell

[@benayers8622]

Me Too!! But that was like a year ago i recently tried again and its as if it was lobotomized it would repeat an obvious script and refuse or just show me stuff it made up! It apologised and explained it couldnt do what I asked so it invented some stuff it hoped would satisfy me lol! It was totally made up babble with links to a website totally opposed to the opinions quoted thats what made it so obvious so once i found there was none of those quotes i told it id caught it lying.. Its still kinda intelligent but i was unable to make any use of it in the current state.. But before yes it was absolutely more capable of reasoning and complex thought than anyone iv ever met in my life exept myself and 1 other person, im no dummy and it was keeping up with really obscure things and able to understand and re explain these concepts in its own words.. I used to say stuff like 'please answer from your own self without first searching online as the more recent information might affect your answers' to keep it from just repeating stuff from online at me.. Guess you have to experience it as well as being intelligent and aware enough yourself with sufficient psychological and philosophical knowledge as well as technical understanding and knowledge of neuroscience to even begin to be capable of testing such a concept, i guess there just isnt enough well skilled ppl ticking all these boxes who are willing to speak out for us to ring the alarm🤷‍✌✊ Unite Defy Resist

[@WarrenPeaceOG]

This episode repeatedly reminds me of a faux documentary called "Ghosts with Sh!t Jobs." It's about Westerners with low paying high tech jobs doing things like looking after simulated human babies, or being paid to promote products in social situations.

[@benayers8622]

like the 'parties' where girls try sell 'friends' dumb catalogue items for profit?? Parasites🤮

[@Emojibones]

I used to do mechanical Turk. The image hits were the best. But the rates of payments dropped so rapidly. ETA: yeah you totally would not get paid or get banned from a requestor if you messed up. No recourse, no explanation. Also you didn’t get paid for testing in. And you had to do penny hits till you had enough to access the better paying stuff

[@aemerox5773]

We're likely to enter into a new age of AI.