How Are Battery Trays Made? Teijin Factory Tour

At the end of last year, Sandy and Paul visited the facility of Teijin Automotive Technologies, where they learned about how Teijin's composite materials are helping to reduce weight in some of the most recognizable vehicles ever made. Plus, they got a tour of the factory and got to watch a battery tray being made!
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[@JamesBabb]

As a curious outsider, I find this type of video absolutely fascination. I didn't know how much I don't know. It's so cool to have an expert insider's guide.

[@fred993a]

Sandy - I appreciate, so much, the education you give me every week.

[@ChrisGageTX]

Jeep, a sad story

[@lilredcummins]

So happy to see these products made in the USA. Thanks for the factory tour. This is way better than a trade show.

[@MrSamaro1139]

USA, Yea

[@RZZ-1701]

But I'm surprised that they measure in our 🇺🇳 global common metric system at Teijin USA instead of using your fanciful devised US units. 😉👍

[@spacemanclips]

@@RZZ-1701 It's interesting that the units of measure that that USA chooses to use, bothers you so much.

[@martingardens]

@@RZZ-1701 The US auto industry started going metric in 1978.

[@RZZ-1701]

@@spacemanclips Oh not at all. I'm glad that they still go on on their own way in the States. Why should they do it as anybody else in the world? US Americans have their special needs (e. g. Inches, Gallones, Pounds and Fahrenheit instead of meters, litres, kilograms and degree Celsius). I love diversity. 🏳️‍🌈 And I love America either! 🇺🇲

[@ag135i]

Team Munro indeed made a good decision by going online on social media, kudos.

[@mjp0815]

How it's made show, but with real info. This is one of the best shows on KZbin.

[@normangebhardt2092]

So interesting to watch. Munro repeatedly keeps us informed on leading edge innovations. This tour was packed with so much information that more than one viewing is required. Thanks.

[@martingardens]

Ditto. So much information to be assimilated that I can't do it in one viewing.

[@slartybartfarst9737]

So interesting to listen to Hugh rattle off the real world low down on his companies processes. Thanks Sandy for these insights. Im retired now, dont miss the "NO men", but good to keep up with the positives in big auto.

[@ChrisGageTX]

They're selling Bake-o-lite and pyrex. Make a battery, not Tupperware

[@slartybartfarst9737]

@@ChrisGageTX Bake-0-Lite being the trade name of a thermosetting resin compound has many attributes applicable to battery protection, it may be a known entity but also probably optimal. Pyrex again a modified glass inert, strong and a great insulator. Lets not go Morgan wooden chassis, but optimal materials........its no party....unlike Tupaware!

[@patreekotime4578]

@@ChrisGageTX I guess Munro has finally hit the big time since they now have thier own tr@ll.

[@ChrisGageTX]

@@patreekotime4578 my point was that he spent too much time laser focused on something.... miniscule. He made lids.

[@ChrisGageTX]

@@patreekotime4578 my bad, I just realized I'm watching a video on battery boxes. Laser focused on the boxes. Sorry... accidentally trolled.

[@wildcat64100]

It’s so great to visit companies that are willing to pull back the curtain a bit so us lay people can get a glimpse of the amazing advancements happening in materials, processes, and design. With computer aided design and digital printing as well as other technologies, I imagine the time it takes to go from cocktail napkin idea to prototypes to production is shortened tremendously. Thanks Sandy!

[@dporrasxtremeLS3]

Mr. Hugh Coran, what a very impressive walk through on your products! Thanks Sandy and your team for making this happen!

[@charlesrovira5707]

@21:18 I want to shake the hand of the worker who made those compression tanks into *_Minions._* 🤓👍

[@johnq6469]

Come on by ill shake your hand.

[@ricknplano1401]

Thank you. Excellent inside view to something I would never get access to otherwise.

[@MunroLive]

Thank you for watching!

[@redhorse554det1]

outstanding video. hugh is a fantastic rep for teijin. didnt once say 'can't talk about this'. this video could have been an hour. vey interesting! thank you

[@MunroLive]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

THANKS HUGH,PAUL AND SANDY…AND THE REST OF THE MUNRO FAMILY 😎TOUR OF behind the scenes VERY INTERESTING 🧐💚💚💚

[@MrSweetHart6976]

This was so interesting to watch and once again confirms "Material Science" is what's going to really advance our future. I didn't realize all the new and different polymers they are utilizing these days for our vehicles.

[@kitecattestecke2303]

Problem with these parts? Recycling :-) glue with fiber is completely ass to shred and recycle, yes you can use it as gravel but it is just trash

[@Bradimus1]

It's amazing how many things can be done smarter and cheaper given enough small advances and focused thought.

[@Steph1]

14:27 the look on the face of the guy on the background is brilliant, can relate 😂

[@erichschindl6530]

Wonderful and very valuable for me to listen and learn from these experienced engineers and colleagues. Thanks!

[@MrDuncanBooth]

Thanks guys

[@MunroLive]

Our pleasure!

[@diggleda2952]

“That went over like a fart in church” - Sandy

[@chrisfreemesser5707]

This was a really interesting video...thanks for posting!

[@MunroLive]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@chrisfreemesser5707]

@@MunroLive Really fascinating....who knew something as old as Bakelite would be involved in EV manufacturing!

[@dave550821]

More like this please.

[@techiheed1845]

OMG, so much tongue in cheek in that one. Haha. @Sandy was just bashing those decisions at Ford. Love it ;-)

[@martshearer498]

A second trip to Teijin to discuss their injection molded reinforced polymer frames is in order. IDRA aluminum, or Teijin CFRP is a contrast worth examining.

[@davidworks7758]

Great episode!

[@davidmalboeuf1157]

This guy really knows his company's products, this was an excellent video!

[@-LightningRod-]

Got my Semi Support Stickers signed and delivered ! I'm just thrilled!

[@MunroLive]

Amazing!

[@t3hpwninat0r]

"That went over like a fart in church" lmfao I'm dying 🙈

[@eddiestevenson-kaatsch6306]

Absolutely fascinating!

[@Tanstaaflitis]

Not every day Sandy is surprised by something new.

[@winniethexi2184]

f-ing loving the content

[@dboyette42]

WOW love Sandy's knowledge

[@Derpy1969]

They sold tens of those Spark packs. I mean tens of hundreds.

[@Av-vd3wk]

You guys care to cover this recent news from Ford? I don’t recall you guys realizing either that their wiring harness is 1.6 kilometers longer than it needs to be for Electric F-150 and Mach-E. But this is what you do right?? “Ford CEO Jim Farley was rather blunt about the problems that Ford experienced as it rolled out its hot EV models, the Mustang Mach-E and the F-150 Lightning pickup. While both vehicles have a long list of waiting customers, Farley admitted that Ford encountered numerous problems with their production. “We didn’t know that our wiring harness for Mach-E was 1.6 kilometers longer than it needed to be. We didn’t know it’s 70 pounds heavier and that that’s [cost an extra] $300 a battery,” he said on a call with investors Thursday. “We didn’t know that we underinvested in braking technology to save on the battery size.” Farley said these and other cost problems meant that Ford “left about $2 billion of profit on the table.”

[@patreekotime4578]

Ughhh... EVERYONE knew. Except perhaps Jim Farley. But its just a PR game they are playing. Because Tesla has been dramatically reducing wire lengths for years and Sandy has been beating the drum about it. Next Ford will announce that they didnt know that their coolant loops were a confusing mess. The engineers knew. But the only way to fix these issues is go in-house with hundreds of components so the engineers can plan out the paths of the cables and the piping and not work around existing components. Everyone knows, and its exactly why Sandy talks about Tesla so much, because they saw it and did something about it. The only reason for Ford to make this announcement is its a more fun way to say they finally invested in bringing alot of the component production in-house so they could design shorter lengths.

[@MrCPPG]

Great video, much appreciated.

[@MunroLive]

Thank you for watching!

[@MrFoxRobert]

Thank you!

[@MunroLive]

You're very welcome!

[@Georgewilliamherbert]

Great tour and discussion! I always see aerospace composite approaches and they’re tons more expensive for not that much lower weight. Now I’m wondering about how far this type of design and production could go…

[@georgelewisray]

: ) . . . .AWESOME / Interesting / Informative / Thanks !!!

[@mymelt1770]

Now it can really be seen just how much legacy car companies rely on outside suppliers. Also, isn’t this why it takes longer to affect changes in improvements and innovation?

[@OwenFromOhio]

This is great stuff!

[@MunroLive]

Thank you!

[@jambay4785]

So, is Teijin a level 1 supplier? Interesting details on manufacturing and flexibility, along with materials. Always like to learn, thanks for sharing.

[@patreekotime4578]

Was a little disappointed that the factory tour skipped over the factory, but i understand its loud and dangerous. Cool overview anyway. Bakelite SMC kinda blew my mind!

[@motorv8N]

Fascinating insights into OEM suppliers. I wonder - does Jeep outsource their plastic fenders too?

[@SteveBueche1027]

Italy factor for SMC is for the Aptera body parts. It’s a innovative solar electric vehicle coming out of California.

[@JanBabiuchHall]

what does SMC mean?

[@mattplauman4824]

@@JanBabiuchHall Sheet Molding Compound

[@patreekotime4578]

If they can get thier funding for manufacturing. It hasnt been looking good since the new CEO is actually being honest about thier finances.

[@gmv0553]

@@patreekotime4578 they have the funding lined up but they are trying to start production earlier because it takes time to finalize the details with the investors. Chris Anthony stated in the investors webinar that the Aptera will definitely start production but we are going to try and start earlier. That is why they have tried raising the extra money with the competition to get the first Aptera. The tooling has already started at CPC to produce the body panels.

[@MikesTropicalTech]

Amazing stuff, thanks.

[@karsten4689]

This is to support the Tesla Semi teardown! 😃Great videos and insight. Thanks for sharing!

[@MunroLive]

Thank you so much for your support! We will do our best.

[@grahamstevenson1740]

Really informative, especially that bakelite issue !

[@Chas_Reno]

Excellent!

[@ohhs7830]

Great presentation. Always wonder how they came up these large parts. Using cardboard is unexpected unless you consider you can coat it or seal to keep it dry indefinitely. Hate to be the first guy to propose using cardboard as a structural member.

[@joe2mercs]

Teijin is an interesting company with a long history of association with OEMs. The future of legacy OEMs is looking increasingly uncertain on an industry in which Tesla is ascendant. Rather than have a generic 1.5m x2m battery box on display it might strategically interesting for Teijin to make a demonstrator structural battery box that fits the Tesla Model Y floor opening. If Teijin can demonstrate cost, weight and ‘production floor area’ reductions by using mouldings rather than traditional ‘metal pressings with assembly line’ it must surely pique Tesla’s interest.

[@jamesengland7461]

Tesla would probably still rather make it themselves than pay others to make it.

[@patreekotime4578]

Its crazy expensive for them to build a one-off for a company that notorously does everything in-house. They spent the cash on building a generic box exactly because it was requested by companies who might actually buy thier product.

[@wtmayhew]

It is interesting to see phenolic is still relevant in 2023. 150 years or so of manufacturing is a pretty good run.

[@kirkellis4329]

Vacuum has an R-value of 25 per inch. If you made a honeycomb with tiny holes between cells and used a vacuum pump to maintain that vacuum, you could achieve R10 with a half-inch thick floorboard, right ? Battery boxes that were essentially thermos bottles would be great for cold climates, leaving the temperature management to the external radiators/chillers and the heat sink surfaces actually in contact with the cells. As compared to a huge aluminum or steel bottomed battery tray that dissipates heat as the vehicle is trying desperately to warm batteries when it is below zero.

[@Otterbruce]

I remember selling the sport Trac when it came out and thought that bed was awesome and all trucks should move that way.

[@cassidybb10]

Loved it.

[@richardnedbalek1968]

21:44 👂Hugh’s earplugs are still in even AFTER the factory tour! 🤣

[@appleiphone69]

What percentage of these materials can be recycled?

[@gmv0553]

The panels on the Aptera can be recycled up to six times. They will be manufactured by CPC!

[@toronado455]

21:28 LOL

[@sonekulla]

Hey Sandy -- What are the recycling properties of these materials? Can they be recycled as straightforwardly as steel and aluminum?

[@kylek1556]

Very interesting stuff

[@timsteinkamp2245]

Very interesting and I think Sandy is right on the home use of used batteries for solar. My last purchase was 16 T105 for $2000 and want a improved battery for my nest purchase.

[@WANDERER0070]

That was very interesting ,thnx

[@MunroLive]

Glad you think so!

[@peterforan5982]

👍great to see successful North American supplier.

[@techiheed1845]

Sandy! you're a pure Scottish boy. Tell it as it is

[@wtmayhew]

There are some things I don’t like about my Tacoma, but in 18 years of daily use, no problems with the plastic box. No rust, resilient.

[@ChrisGageTX]

Someone else is going to do the hard job. That seems to be the MO.

[@johnb1010]

You can super seal tiny spaces with silicone particles in a vacuum. They make it for houses to seal drafts..They pressurize the house and spray the tiny particles into the air, it vacuums it outside till it can't...Would probably work for a battery box, flexible too

[@KCautodoctor]

Matt Risinger has a great video on his channel demonstrating that process using the AeroBarrier system in a house under construction.

[@johnb1010]

@@KCautodoctor That might of been where i seen it...Would be easy to do on a closed box with a sealable opening, Probably get more then a meter deep water insurance...People drive off bridges man lol

[@JanBabiuchHall]

21:28 really. Wow. Just wow.

[@emerybayoptics]

Fart in church 😂❤ love Sandy!

[@kirkellis4329]

If structural battery packs and megacastings can be made out of fiber reinforced injection molded plastic, and this company is already making the bodies for the Corvette, is an all-plastic body in white possible ? What about forged carbon fiber control arms and steering knuckles ? Only the motors and wear points might still be made out of metal.

[@ovidiugrigorescu]

min 23-24 the cardboard honeycomb solution is also presented as a (BASF ?) material for a Citroen OLI concept thqat is supposed to be very light, very interesting concept from fabrication pov

[@Clark-Mills]

Aluminium (metal in general) - recyclable. SMC / resin-composite / carbon fibre - not recyclable.

[@gmv0553]

Yes it can be recycled up to six times!

[@sjvtesla]

Brilliant

[@zodiacfml]

11:20 this the reason I like hyundai's engineering decision to have the insane wheelbase of the Ioniq 5, aside from having plenty of interior space. Most new EVs in China also have large wheelbase. There was a rumor from China that Tesla is testing a Model Y with a wheelbase of the Model X

[@yorkchris10]

I thought it was cheaky when Lotus claimed weight reduction in one area with the Evija.

[@cryalowicki]

Clickbait. 21:00 The footage of the actual factory tour in the title was 30 seconds of black and white montage. The rest is a sales pitch.

[@chrisbailey5055]

Rockwell was making corvette fiberglass in 1970...is Teijin an offshoot of that?

[@3nityC]

Sandy how about Polycarbonate easily formed & strong?

[@nononsenseBennett]

Could this technology be applied to the ENTIRE body structure of future vehicles? Stampable, strong, no rust...perfect solution to many of today's problems.

[@patreekotime4578]

Steel still has structural benefits. But there is no reason why body panels couldnt all go plastic or composite. GM had great experience with that with Saturn. My 20 year old Saturn has less rust and paint issues than the 10 year old Camry I replaced it with. There are also techniques for embedding steel in plastic to create attachment points. The primary reason nobody will do it is a lasting public perception of plastics as cheap and junky.

[@batchint]

one of guys from the company that proudly sponsored the early roadtrip… did floor pans…

[@patreekotime4578]

Sabic. Also an SMC and plastics supplyier. But they werent going to mention the competition.

[@wildcat64100]

One thing that becomes clear over time if you watch enough of these videos is that GM, Ford, etc. hardly actually make anything. They just assemble parts made by hundreds or thousands of companies most of us have never heard of. No wonder it feels like no one cares about quality or a vehicle feeling “all of a piece”. The final assembly point hardly has any skin in the game. Responsibility probably gets shunted around with every one blaming somebody else.

[@topev7864]

Hi Sandy, if you take GM batteries after they depleted to 70% and put them in your basement how are you going to keep them cool to prevent from having thermal run away and burn your house down?

[@BatterVswithAntonio]

House cycling isn't as aggressive as automotive, and there is no supercharging. Would still need to hook up a chiller/heat pump.

[@patreekotime4578]

Dont run a welding rig off of it and youll be fine.

[@bigjules1234567890]

You're grossly overestimating how much power you'll be pulling from them. Plus like someone above said, the biggest concern when you're using batteries is in the charging stage, especially when you're charging quickly (aka DC fast charging). You're never going to do that with a home battery setup.

[@peterfireflylund]

How did you get Mr. Bates to do the voice?

[@johngrath9773]

Hi and thanks for a good channel. I have a question for you. With a LFP battery, how much 'damage', if any is caused by running the battery down below 20% to around 10% once per week or so? Does it really make any difference in the grand scheme of things?? What are your thoughts? Keep up the good work and good luck with your channel. Speak soon. -John

[@john_in_phoenix]

Most manufacturers spec sheets rate using 100% of capacity cycles around 50% compared to using 80% cycles. Personally I use 3.0v per cell as empty, since I noticed a couple of degrees Celsius temperature rise when discharged below that. The manufacturers are not really specific. With LFP, I have seen a quoted 3,000 cycles using 100%, and 6,000 cycles using 80%.

[@r.a.monigold9789]

These are the field trips that expand the mind and PROVE that alternatives CAN be better than the originally "spec'ed" items. Salaried Engineers prove that innovation STOPS when the paychecks are guaranteed for life. However, those engineers' mistake their longevity with that of their company. When you outlive the paymaster, your checks stop when the funeral is over - the only "no" after that is NO !!!

[@bigjules1234567890]

Can anyone tell me where this Taijin plant is located? Just out of curiosity.

[@kitecattestecke2303]

SMC Sheet molding compound ...

[@ChrisGageTX]

This looks like a big boat with no rudder.

[@dennislyons3095]

I'm familiar with wet layup using fiberglass, carbon fiber , kevlar as the fiber & room temp cure epoxies & polyesters. The term "SMC" I assume represents some kind of molded composite but I am not sure. I have seen (but have not done) infusion molded pieces (although I am familiar with vacuum bagging). So--What is "SMC"?

[@gmv0553]

CPC in Italy, the company Sandy mentioned in the beginning of the video. They have partnered with Aptera and will be the manufacturer of the Aptera body parts.

[@dennislyons3095]

@@gmv0553 that did not answer the question. I am aware of the Italian company but--what is SMC?

[@tedbellWRV]

So what is up with recent "ejection" of Audi battery tray caught on video during a crash?!!

[@rogerstarkey5390]

Just my opinion, but look out for this type of material on the "cheap" Tesla when it arrives. I can imagine a 2 piece passenger box, maybe with hollow pillars containing a metal tube reinforcement for crash protection. If you want colour, how about a computerized body wrap instead of paint?

[@mebran1193]

Could the Italy company supply Aptera someday?

[@gmv0553]

They have partnered up and CPC is going to manufacture and assemble the Aptera. The manufacturing of the tooling has started and CPC eventually will have a manufacturing facility in the US.

[@stephenkramme7063]

Did these folks, in conjunction with Honda engineers, make the bed of the Ridgeline? The story at that time was no other OEM was interested.

[@mattplauman4824]

Yes

[@wtmayhew]

A standardized battery is a step toward making batteries swappable. The next step is figuring out reliable quick connect coolant lines that can be handled by automation. The step after that is figuring out to achieve owner buy-in to not owning the battery. And then…

[@wtmayhew]

Yes, I know Tesla considered making batteries swappable and decided, “No.” Time has passed and engineering continues to learn new things.

[@ferkeap]

Wouldn't a aluminium bakelite coated tray be interesting.

[@nononsenseBennett]

I'd like to see Halon fire suppression built into these cases also.

[@jamesengland7461]

I think Halon is now illegal

[@williamscoggin1509]

Surely this new bakelite is a different formula from the old original. Because the old original would draw up, crack, stink, and that's why everybody quit using it 70 years 🤔

[@fatso8437]

massive new weight reduction technology recently discovered - a smelly liquid that gives oooommmphs of power when ignited and has an energy density a thousand times greater than battery technology. Stay tuned for more updates.

[@kevinlucas8437]

Love how Sandy reverts back to talks with companies about better common sense idea's!! But they always say no !!!! This is why tesla/ Elon is kicking everyone's ass !!! He puts out of the box thinking and is not afraid of being 1st to try something. This is what frustrates me about the car and truck industry. Why aren't trucks front wheel drive and or all wheel drive instead of rear wheel drive. More weight by the engine. Better traction !!!

[@Omnis2]

15:50 Welcome to Michigan. Imagine if it were Ohio

[@ChrisGageTX]

We 3d printed something

[@tryantoheal]

Sandy doesn’t seem excited/impressed at all lol