How Bad Wording Ruins The Eye of Timaeus

The Eye of Timaeus is an early era dark magician support card, which allows you to send a dark magician monster you control to the GY, in order to SS a fusion monster that lists it as a material to the field.
The idea behind this card is that it would work with Dark Magician AND Dark Magician Girl to allow them to go into their dragon fusions (Dark Magician the Dragon Knight)(Dark Magician Girl the Dragon Knight), and would be really good in modern DM decks to let them go into Dark Dragoon(Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon) and even The Dark Magicians. However, no modern DM decks play this card, and its not because they don't use fusions, because they absolutely do use them.
Editing by @ParfaitOperationalGuidebook
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#yugioh #shorts
/ theduellogs
/ hirumared
/ theduellogs

[@legen_ddary]

Out of all the "you must be a lawyer to understand this" technicalities this has to be one of the dumbest

[@channellastname3527]

The actual lawyer above your comment even disagrees with it

[@preistestdragon4634]

@randomvideoboy1 you are missing a major in Law and a minor in English.

[@TuckerMangum408]

​@randomvideoboy1It doesn't mention dark magician specifically. It instead mentions a "dark magician" monster. It is a yugioh wording issue that is present many other cards.

[@AnotherVessel]

Yeah, I should be allowed to use Scarred Dragon Archfiend and Burning Soul to summon three synchros, including King Calamity, on your turn. This is a very important rule for the balance of some cards. Timaeus just needs an errata.

[@noahtackett6264]

​@@AnotherVessel not even an errata. The quoted text is the same. Changing it to "it counts now" literally fixes everything wrong with it

[@RobertLydonReviews]

As an actual lawyer I will admit the ruling still doesn’t make sense to me as the word monster is outside the quotes. I’d challenge this on appeal

[@skylex157]

evil(good) lawyer be like:

[@andytoskovic]

Exactly, this makes zero sense

[@10001vader]

I think the reasoning is that Magician's rod is looking for something that references the specific card Dark Magician. Eye of Timaeus references a category of cards (Dark Magician Monsters), not one specific card. Either way, it's a poorly worded card that would be fixed if konami cared about consistent templating at all.

[@HowlingDoom]

The phrase "Target 1 'Dark Magician' Monster" means its not asking for a card specifically named "Dark Magician" but any card that contains that as part if its name. Magician Rod however is asking for the Card "Dark Magician" meaning its asking for the card with that exact name and will only search for cards that specifically mentions that exact monster. There is only 1 exact Dark Magician monster.

[@serraramayfield9230]

@@HowlingDoomyeah i'd challenge this too or even just straight up ask Konami's database

[@kylesmith8061]

As much as I love YuGiOh... especially as a Dark Magician player, this is a glaring example of exactly why people hate YuGiOh

[@anonymous-bt6pv]

yeah, ya gotta learn to love it

[@anonymous-bt6pv]

@randomvideoboy1 honestly probably nothing, although for most of these cases konami would errata it

[@AnotherVessel]

They'd hate it more if Scarred Dragon Archfiend could summon King Calamity on their turn. It's an important ruling. Tim just needs an errata since DMs aren't really a threat.

[@thema1622]

Yeah it's one of the things I hate from Yugioh. The fact that you play archetypes instead of cards in general. Is the reason why Drafting in Yugioh is pretty much impossible without making a cube. I do like archetypes but I would prefer all archetypes be like Danger! Or Kaiju's so you can play whatever card you like the most.

[@noahtackett6264]

​@@anonymous-bt6pvmore like let the Stockholm Syndrome sink in

[@ariavachier-lagravech.6910]

This is one of the card you have to study in order to pass card rulings course in your third year on duel academy

[@ninjedi6710]

We did but you were sleeping you Slifer slacker

[@Kurokami112]

People said that opening a school to learn how to play Duel monsters was dumb Well, who's laughing now?

[@matthewriddle2698]

Funny how everyone thought Seto having a brainfart in making a school dedicated to learning how to become a Duelist. Turns out he was ahead of the curve the whole damn time, no wonder he took over Kaiba Corp when he was a teenager.

[@Lithosagymfan173]

​@@matthewriddle2698You people make jokes that only works if the guy has 0 knowledge of the franchise. Also, this joke is overrated and uncreative.

[@Phoenix-MX1]

​@@Lithosagymfan173 you must be fun at parties

[@SorrelYT]

This really sounds like one of those "cards konami can fix by just saying its fixed" issues.

[@TheTwizted]

Dm players including myself have been begging for a new fusion card or for them to fix this one. People use REF to turbo out dragoon, it’d be nice to have a Dm version of REF

[@hey_its_branden]

that or just putting DM and DMG on timaeus

[@BaritoneMonotone]

@@hey_its_brandenWhat and do something that players have asking for years and would make people happy? Idk man but I don’t think Konami can do that…

[@fuckhead0]

Fr like, the text isn't even up for debate since it does have "Dark Magician" in its text, just specified monster rather than leaving it there but Konami has much weirder "it works because we say so" already in the game so this one would almost feel natural

[@hey_its_branden]

@@BaritoneMonotone i forgot no one with common sense works at konami lol

[@Arcademan09]

I mean this in the nicest way possible: That's the most assinine reasoning I've ever seen for a technicality

[@justinjakeashton]

There's nothing unreasonable about it. In an alternate world, Timaeus needs "Elemental HERO Neos" and Rod needs a card that mentions "Elemental HERO" or "Neos". This is a special case of a monster and an archetype sharing a name, like Thunder Dragon and Cyber Dragon.

[@MakoShiruba]

@@justinjakeashton It says "Dark Magician" but not in the way it's archetype wants to, so it doesn't work in the archetype it's supposed to be in. This is not a "Frog the Jam" type situation, this is straight up a flub.

[@braedenmclean5304]

Considering all the dark magician monster are…well, dark magicians then it does indeed mention them

[@Goremejy]

Yeah it literally says “dark magician” on the card. It lets you search for “cards with dark magician” in the name. I don’t care what Konami says but this ruling is idiotic AF

[@justinjakeashton]

@@Goremejy Didn't even bother reading the card. It searches anything with Dark Magician in the CARD TEXT, not the name.

[@Sorran87]

This is a great example of Yugioh being needlessly confusing. By any common sense interpretation, this card should ABSOLUTELY work as intended

[@getsuryu7227]

It's just that some people try too hard at a game that's supposed to be fun.

[@renatoramos8834]

It does.

[@davidpotts7116]

YuGiOh can be confusing, but let’s not forget how an overly simplified and stern card game like MTG can be so stupid. There was an incident some years ago where one guy lost a MTG tournament because he declared his target was “Borbor” instead of “Borbor, Enraged” when he used Pithing Needle. Which, by all logic as the damn card was on his opponent’s board, should have meant he was targeting “Borbor, Enraged.” But nope, Pithing Needle specifically states that whatever card you name is the card that’s affected, not any of its related cards. This was a valid ruling too, but MTG is just so incredibly strict on its rulings and card interactions that there’s no room for individual interpretation even when the individual interpretation would be correct.

[@ImRottenInside]

​@@davidpotts7116That was quite a long time ago, and the ruling was reversed, it was even stated that if both you and your opponent know what you're referring to, that they can't be scummy like the guy who tried winning on a horrible technicality despite knowing what was meant to be named

[@renatoramos8834]

@@davidpotts7116 easy lawsuit.

[@somebodyrandom27]

The really funny thing is that the cleanest way to fix this without changing the cards function would be to change the wording on The Eye of Timaeus to "Target one "Dark Magician" or "Dark Magician" monster you control".

[@Forestxavier20]

Yeah, but then Dark Magician decks might be something other than a Rogue deck option for more than two seconds, and you don't wanna have that now do you?

[@exiaR2x78]

Its such an easy errata and it wouldnt make the DM deck crazy good just a bit more functional

[@NegativeNanase]

@@Forestxavier20 Nah DM decks still lose to infamous "going second" and has no real dodging mechanic to not die against hand traps

[@exiaR2x78]

@randomvideoboy1 Rod searches any spell that mentions Dark Magician (referring to the monster). Where Timaeus is saying "Dark Magician" monster (referring to the archetype). Its a ruling thing, hope this clarifies it

[@stevenle9960]

this would imply that konami gives a shit about the health of the game

[@AlpacaLaca88]

That sounds like something a kid at school would make up because he was about to loose

[@Bop_bOp_73]

Konami should Errata it To say “dark magician” or “dark magician” monster.

[@enlongjones2394]

Or even just “dark magician or dark magician girl”

[@moominguy9664]

​@@enlongjones2394 brother you are dumb fr

[@moominguy9664]

"Dark Magician" covers any card that have "Dark Magician" on their name like "Dark Magician" (Girl)

[@enlongjones2394]

@@moominguy9664 yes but because it doesn’t name Dark Magician as a singular card, the eye can’t be searched with stuff like Rod.

[@MaxWeb2599]

​​​​@@enlongjones2394 that's actually the wording the card had when it came out. And I think the French still have it

[@MrEffectfilms]

This is what erratas should be for, to fix cards like this. All it would take is a simple reprint and ruling change for this to be one of the best Dark Magician cards out there.

[@Enkidu659]

Yep, but konami doesn't errata nearly as much as they should.

[@MrEffectfilms]

@@Enkidu659 yeah, they only seem to errata to weaken good cards they don't want to ban or so they unban previously broken cards.

[@Jotari]

Doesn't even need a reprint. They just need to declare that it works as intended, as anyone would expect to in the first place.

[@denofpigs2575]

​​​@@JotariIt SPECIFICALLY states that the card must reference the Dark Magician monster. Timaeus references the Dark Magician archetype. The card DOES work as intended. Its intended to be a shortcut to a fusion monster. Them saying it works as intended won't change the facts here. It needs an errata. Unless Konami is going to state that Eye of Timaeus was intended to be searched by a card that was released two years later, them saying the card now works "as intended" has no solid foundation. The errata is necessary.

[@louisnguyen6610]

Imagine going to court and you’re charged with public indecency for using a public restroom. This is what the locals ruling brainrot sounds like every time I’m there

[@calvinmcneil9824]

The thing is that a boy was charged for indecent exposure because he needed to go pee behind his mother's car because the place that his mother had a meeting didn't have washrooms for the public

[@Lithosagymfan173]

It's really not that hard.

[@louisnguyen6610]

@@Lithosagymfan173 ah yes I’ll just get around the opponents xyz that cannot be effected or destroyed by card effects or battle. Has an Omni-negate, can’t be targeted if there’s a light monster on the field, and light monsters can’t be targeted, destroyed by card effects, or battle. Because it’s not that hard. Don’t get me started on the implicative rulings on some staple cards that turn a discussion with the judge into a court case between you and your opponent

[@Lithosagymfan173]

@@louisnguyen6610 The Xyz monster you created is pretty straight foreward honestly. Has protection most of the time, and has more alongside a Light monster; is there one like it in game?

[@AnotherVessel]

It's about the precedent it sets for similar situations.

[@MisterX867]

This is so stupid that it literally hurts...

[@murlocshamab7308]

Seems a South park episode

[@vegeta2998]

To me it don't make sense. It has dark magician in its description...@.@

[@evileyevalaus]

No it's definitely a good ruling it just seems stupid because it should work better but without the ruling there's plenty of cards that would break the game

[@megamimikyu0720]

This card’s effect makes a fine amount of sense. It affects any card in the “dark magician” archetype, consisting of dark magician, dark magician girl, skilled dark magician, dark magician of chaos, dark magician knight, dark magician the dragon knight, dark magician girl the dragon knight, and the dark magicians. It’s just that the first two are the only ones with targets for the eye of timaeus to summon from. The issue i have with them is that all the support cards should be searching cards that mention a “dark magician” monster, instead of only searching cards that name the vanilla specifically. Either that, or have more of the support cards actually be a part of the archetype.

[@toondude78]

Yeah this card isn't bad, the rest of the support is worded worse arguably

[@Lithosagymfan173]

Someone sane in here.

[@itzbebop]

As a lawyer, id argue that "dark magician" being in quotes and "monster" not being in quotes negates the technicality. I'd challenge this in appeal.

[@robertcarsten4050]

That's nice....... You're completely wrong and don't seem to understand how yugioh cards are worded. But it is nice

[@Trey5S5S]

You'd lose that case. The ruling actually comes from the way the effect is worded in Japanese, not English. Magician's Rod's searching effect is "「ブラック・マジシャン」のカード名が記された魔法・罠カード１枚をデッキから手札に加える", which literally translates to "Add 1 card from your deck to your hand that has Black Magician's card name written on it." "Card name" here, of course, referring to the the actual name of the card. TEOT says "「ブラック・マジシャン」モンスター１体" (lit. "1 'Black Magician' monster"), which isn't Black Magician's card name, so it doesn't count.

[@alicevioleta3184]

​@@Trey5S5Sdoes "written on it" mean in the name or in the effect? if it means in the effect, i'd still challenge it, since the name Dark Magician still appears.

[@Trey5S5S]

@@alicevioleta3184 Sorry, I mistyped. The correct translation is "Add 1 spell/trap card from your deck to your hand that has Black Magician's card name written on it." And no, it doesn't still appear. "Black Magician" is the card name, and "「ブラック・マジシャン」モンスター" means "Black Magician monster", which is what's written in TEOT's effect. There is no card in the game named "Black Magician monster", so it's not a card name.

[@mrpinguimninja]

my favorite thing in following yours and some other ygo channels it that whatever interest I might have had in learning the game instantly fizzles just from hearing rules explanations, so it saves me a lot of money

[@animeking1357]

That moment when the game itself prevents new players from getting into it.

[@scorchthetorchic9457]

This exact same ruling is why Nightmare Throne isn't searchable in Yubel decks

[@AnotherVessel]

Same reason I can't summon King Calamity with Scarred Dragon Archfiend.

[@evileyevalaus]

​@@AnotherVesselyour right but that's also exactly why the ruling is more important than ppl think

[@olivers.7821]

It is insane how this game exists and I am amazed that they at all managed to make versions of it for pc and co.

[@thiagodias5530]

They Could make a errata to name Dark Magician And Dark Magician Girl as targets of its effects. But Konami rarelly make erratas to turn cards more powerful or consistent. They generally use erratas to correct confuse texting or to nerf the effects of a card that is consideres too much strong/generic.

[@silentshiranui4351]

Still always a possibility. They did some wording changes on Necrovalley in the past that made its effect slightly change (the last errata is considered a buff) Still may not happen either though.

[@TheLordTash]

They don't even really need to errata it. They can just pull a Warrior of Atlantis and go "yeah, ignore the text, this is how it work".

[@mesiagamer5217]

Necrovally.

[@exiaR2x78]

This is probably the only card I can think of that get an errata with a buff and it would have zero impact on the meta besides making a casual fan favorite deck function better

[@mrkickinthesky]

they added "this card counts as archfiend" to the OG summon skull,but i dont expect them to do anything for the game,the goal is to make as much money as possible and milk players pockets as well as they can,thats why they still make retrains of fans favourite which are completely useless but nostalgic,the ban list arent to balance the game but to time it with reprints to cripple the cards value,they make you buy a staple card for 60 buck ,which you need a playset off,or a card so genuine every deck can play it,they list it at 60,make it 30 with the time,then after everyone finally buys,they reprint it once,twice and then put it on a banlist which makes it worth go from 30 to 2 dollars,they also rely on vendors to buy out the stock and purposely shortprint specific cards to further increase their profit,at least they pump out a super special rarity or alt artwork because they know the ones playing still have partly have that kid inside them and the will to collect,thats why i prefer goat format or even edison since they reprinted needed cards so the price is low enough while the card poole used is already known,so you dont need to change deck every 1-2 formats to keep up therefore spending hundreds of dollars to buy them straight from the internet or even try to pull booster packs/boxes

[@TheRoseReaper]

"That is the dumbest technicality and I'm elected to ignore it."

[@robertcarsten4050]

Not a technicality...... Literally how the card texts work together. Playing it any differently is just making up card texts and pretending that is the actual effect

[@evileyevalaus]

That "technicality" saves decks from being absolutely broken it's just unfortunate this card got the shit end of the stick but it makes sense

[@joshuacoleman6947]

If this card was searchable, dark magician decks would definitely see more competitive play. It’s still a great card nevertheless. They just need to make a version of this card for it to be searchable

[@TheCrankyTechnician]

Most certainly but they still need a ton of better support to really have a go at the meta. The best case scenario for way too long has been to summon Dragoon and hopefully be able to have a Circle and Eternal Soul on the field

[@AnimatedCarl]

If this card was searchable, Dark Magician decks would still lose to Imperm or Ash and pass on nothing. Best case scenario, they can get out Dragon Knight or Dragoon faster, but they're still doing a 3 card combo to end on Dragoon and Eternal Soul.

[@AnotherVessel]

More competitive play for like a week, before everyone realizes it's still bad.

[@stevenle9960]

what the fuck is the point of quotes then

[@kaikai8702]

Cause "Dark Magician" is both a specific card and an archetype. Like "Dark Magician Girl" is a "Dark Magician" monster, but not THE "Dark Magician"

[@arutemu39]

To make things worse: No fusion monster lists a dark magician monster other then the og Dark Magician. No Toon Dark Magician, no Dark Magician of Chaos only Dark Magician.

[@coolmangeorge]

dark magician girl the dragon knight list dark magician girl

[@arutemu39]

@@coolmangeorge So does The Dark Magicians. But i meant that the wording is wasted potential that doesn't pay off.

[@coolmangeorge]

@@arutemu39 That makes better sense

[@droutlaw54]

I wish they’d reprint it to say “Dark Magicing” or “Dark Magician Girl” since there are no other dark magician monsters for this thing to target. Then it could be viable for use in dark magician

[@droutlaw54]

Ignore my misspelling you know what I mean 😭

[@blue-eyesdepresseddragon3753]

...That that's exceptionally stupid. God i fucking hate the text rules of this game sometime. How the hell is this not a Dark Magician when "HundRED EYES dragon" was a red eyes monster

[@robertcarsten4050]

You realize those are completely different things right? Due to a translation error hundred eyes was technically considered a "red eyes" monster until it was properly reprinted with a hyphen "hundred-eyes". that is how archetypes work in yugioh, if a card name contains the substring of the archetype it belongs to that archetype. The eye of timaeus effect has nothing to do with that issue. It affects the archetype of "dark magician" monsters, which yes the monster "dark magician" is a member of as discussed above. But cards like magicians rod can only search cards that specifically refer to the monster card "dark magician" It's simply a issue of categories.

[@juvielmartineztorres8425]

This is the same situation as Hot Red Dragon Archfiend Bane Which it can Tribute itself to summon a Red Dragon Archfiend monster from grave. But because it doesn't mention Red Dragon Archfiend itself, it won't cause Red Zone's pop effect to work. My friend found this out when we played irl for the first time, and he was flabbergasted when I had to explain it to him.

[@frostbite_1244]

But how does this make any sense? Red Dragon Archfiend is infact a Red Dragon Archfiend monster! And since "it" itself is a Red Dragon Archfiend monster then should be summoned by the GOD DAMN Effect! I have no idea why Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't have streamlined terminology, I know they like mechanical experimentation but Everytime they make a new mechanic, it's always written in a way that presumes that either the mechanic is unique or that word terminology is irrelevant just because Japanese can be written shorter, I can't imagine Japanese players have it that much easier.

[@AntCommando]

@@frostbite_1244 Red Zone specifically states, When your opponent activates a card or effect while you control "Red Dragon Archfiend" or a Synchro Monster that mentions it: It is calling for RDA specifically or a synchro monster that mentions it, RDA Bane, is not RDA, and it does not mention it because it mentions RDA Monster the rest of the archetype, that's why the pop doesn't happen, The second effect to summon a banished dark dragon synchro can, only has the requirement that the monster summoned has to be a dark, dragon, synchro monster.

[@mastrblastr8662]

Fun fact: This is also true for a few Yubel cards, namely Nightmare Throne. Since it mentions a "Yubel" monster instead of "Yubel", it is unsearchable with Spirit of Yubel, which sucks.

[@absoul112]

That is so dumb.

[@deckardshaw6696]

No sense, Yubel is still a Yubel monster

[@flango348]

@@deckardshaw6696yes, but it doesn’t mention the specific card Yubel.

[@deckardshaw6696]

@@flango348 But if the card requires a Yubel *monster* instead of just Yubel, then any card with Yubel in its name can be searched, Yubel included

[@flango348]

@@deckardshaw6696 yes, but knightmare throne itself cannot be searched as it doesn’t mention Yubel.

[@Desipapa8989]

But it literally has "Dark magician" in the text and thus should work lol more stupid nuances of this game like effs that literally have the definition of targeting but do not target

[@unbeatable750]

Like what

[@Desipapa8989]

@@unbeatable750 D.D. Assailant is an example

[@Jp63a]

It's because it asks for any monster with "dark magician" in its name, while rod and other target card referencing THE Dark Magician(the monster itself, not the name)

[@robertcarsten4050]

​@@Desipapa8989what? dd assailant doesn't have an effect that is even remotely adjacent to an effect that targets.... Let alone the definition of it

[@syrelian]

@@Desipapa8989 DD Assailant does nothing that would induce a "targeting" condition to be added, there are cards that would target here, but most of them are Bad and Old and thus burdened by attempts to clear up Old Card Text which was terribly messy, the monster affected by Assailant is defined by contextual circumstances, DD Warrior and Warrior Lady do the exact same thing, its consistent At least pick a card that does something like fuckin Lovely Labyrynth, who pops a card but its non-targeting because you define what happens when the effect resolves instead of on activation

[@gamingwitharealg9752]

This is why those nerds at konami dont have girlfriends

[@ShanaReviews]

this is actually a ruling that dates back before Timaeus. Rainbow Neos has a similar issue, it's fusion material in the OCG lists "Ultimate Crystal God" monster as material so you can't use the fusion substitutes because it doesn't specify 1 particular card. this caused confusion for players in the TCG because the wording used specified Rainbow Dragon or Rainbow Dark Dragon and even though it specified those names you could not use other means to cheat them out or substitute for them because of its TCG wording, this is why both Rainbow Dragon and Rainbow Dark Dragon had a new text that added the "This card is always treated as an Ultimate Crystal monster" clause in them to remedy this for the TCG.

[@metalslug97]

Yo these technicalities feels like we're debugging an edge case. Playing Yu-Gi-Oh really do be a good use of my time after all!

[@Doub1eSpark]

As I see it the simplification of this issue is that Eye of Timaeus wording is essentially Dark Magician(monster archetype) while most DM support is searching Dark Magician(the specific monster). It's the same words but completely different meanings.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

My only guess is Konami made this ruling because they thought Dark Magician decks would be too powerful if it was searchable through that. It's literally in quotation marks, there's no other reason to deny it.

[@toondude78]

"Dark Magician" GIRL is also a card and THE specific other target for Timaeus actually

[@AnotherVessel]

No, DM will probably never be good. The ruling is pretty important for balance of some cards. Tim just needs an errata.

[@toondude78]

@@AnotherVessel Tim's never getting one tho because it was never intended to search just DM specifically, it was used for fusion with DMG as well

[@AnotherVessel]

@@toondude78 Then the card remains in the same state, because the rule can't be changed.

[@robertbeisert3315]

When I played: "Patrician of Darkness doesn't mean I attack my own lifepoints!" Now: "This card was printed with a little smudge over the word "Fascimile", making it unable to pull any card that doesn't fit the Smudge Luster Prixinem clause exception from 2019's rule change."

[@Did_No_Wrong]

They really should have just said it was a typo error and errata it but instead of doing that they gave Dark Magicians a fusion that can't be searched. Classic Konami.

[@NotMyRealName6]

This is one ruling-followed-by-errata away from being fixed.

[@danielmay2904]

I wonder if they give the eye of timaeus an errata where it said "target one dark magician or dark magician girl you control" it might see play in dark magician decks

[@tylercoon1791]

But then you couldn’t use it on Dark Magician of Chaos! The most powerful tech DM decks have at their disposal!

[@HowlingDoom]

"Target 1 Dark Magician or Dark Magician monster you control"​

[@SeiphersZone]

Hearing this being called an Early era support card is wild

[@Creative.Pursuit]

So the problem is more so Rod. Because it uses the word "specifically." Without it, you can technically argue that dark magician falls under the category of 'dark magician' monsters.

[@robertcarsten4050]

Right but then it wouldn't search the cards it was meant to search like thousand kmives

[@davincameron7627]

Literally legendary ocean shenanigans.

[@cjkrash]

Alas, timaeus eff monster was created to compensate for this

[@NegativeNanase]

This is one of those questions they put on the Ra yellow entrance exam, no cap

[@colinbrown7190]

Funny thing about this card that has made me hate it. while I was actively playing YGO at my locals, I went in with my tri-zoodiac deck, and for first place I was against DM, they went first fired off DMC and hit two timaeus and ash, they attempted to add timaeus and I told they they couldn’t because of the clause of “monster” we argued for about 2-3 minutes before calling a the locals judge, they ruled in favor of the DM player, then gave ME a game loss for rule sharking, i applied and went to the owner of the store (been playing YGO since GX) and the owner agreed with me on the ruling, only for the judge to DQ me for “harassment and poor sportsmanship.” The owner then revoked the judges permissions at the store after that tournament.

[@pokemaster1725]

Timaeus actually works with red-eyes dark dragoon but its lack of search-ability is the reason the verte combo existed

[@Trigger99X]

Same thing in RDA with Hot red dragon archfiend bane list “RDA” monsters so he doesn’t count for support that says “or sychnro monsters that mentioned RDA”

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

Idea for a support card for the eye, claw and fang cards: _Legend of the Dragons_ Quick-Play Spell _Pay 1000 LP and Tribute 1 Dragon, Warrior or Spellcaster card you control; Activate 1 “Legend of Heart” or 1 “Legendary Dragon” Spell from your hand, deck, GY or Banishment. Cards that are activated by this effect are shuffled into the deck during the end phase. If you control any number of “Legendary Knight” monsters, any monsters that mention “The Eye of Timaeus”, “The Fang of Critias”, “The Claw of Hermos” in their text, and/or “Timaeus the Knight of Destiny”, you can banish this card from your hand, field or GY facedown; Apply 1 of the following effects for the rest of the duel. (Each of the following effects of “Legend of the Dragons” can only be applied once per duel.)_ _⚪️During either players turn, If any cards you possess are targeted by your opponent for an attack or effect: You can Set 1 Spell from your hand, deck or GY._ _⚪️During either players turn, If any cards you possess are targeted by your opponent for an attack or effect: You can Set 1 Trap from your hand, deck or GY._ _⚪️During either players turn, If any cards from your hand, field, GY or Banishment are targeted by your opponent for an attack or effect: You can target 1 Monster you control, then 1 monster in your GY; until the End Phase of your next turn, the name of the target you control becomes the target in the GY’s original name, and replace it’s effect with that GY target's original effects._

[@t3arki113r]

They can just fix it by changing it to ‘Target 1 ‘Dark Magician’ or ‘Dark Magician Girl’. But then again, a searchable 1 material fusion for dragoon, Dragonic Knight or even Dark Paladin sounds scary but funny (of course im talking casual wise. This shit ain’t doin anything in tournaments.)

[@q306005]

They would errata it and in the same announcement put it on the forbidden list.

[@GatsbyCioffi]

I mean, requiring a 7 star vanilla on field to summon it, however searchable and consistent it may be, still requires running bricks to do. I'd say it'd be much stronger, but not ban-worthy.

[@rajkanishu]

boooo scary tier 7 deck booooo

[@Y0G0FU]

We had decks like Tearelements, Ca$htira and now Snake-Eye/Fireking. I doubt Dark Magician with a consistant acces to Eye of Timeaus would be more scary then that :p maybe tier 2 or at the end of tier 1 if at all.

[@TheCrankyTechnician]

Hell nah that doesn't sound scary at all in 2024. If anything, Dark Magician need way more ridiculous support in order to be even remotely able to have a crack at the current meta. I mean what's the best end board you can establish turn 1 in a DM deck? Dragoon plus Circle and Eternal Soul? That's nowhere near good enough against the likes of Branded or Snake-Eyes

[@stoic_hero_tcg]

This is probably one of the best examples of legacy support that looks good on paper, but ends up having anti-synergy with the archetype it was supposed to help, similar to Harpie's Pet Dragon Fearsome Fire Blast, which is only marginally better than the original Pet Dragon in Harpie, as it is a extender that still requires you to have a body on board (which Harpie is already too reliant upon their normal summon) and does not gain its effect if discarded from the hand (via Channler or Hysteric Party) or if detached from an Xyz monster as material (which is the whole point of running it is to have access to Rank 7s in a Rank 4 deck). Not to mention, it only has one good target for its second activated effect in archetype, which is Harpie Harpist. Retrained Pet Dragon ends up being better in Tri-Brigade and Wing Beast piles and is honestly more of a support card for those instead.

[@ironmuro]

"No modern Dark Magician deck uses this card." pfft, I still run at least 1, even went back to 2 in my build recently. You might not be able to search for it, but you can still stack it to the top of your deck with Dark Magical Circle and the draw it with Soul Servant's banish effect if you need it right away. Leaving this card out of a Dark Magician deck just because you can't search for it is not a great reason to ignore it. That is like telling a person to never use staples outside of your archetype because you can't search them, and that's just crazy. Now some builds use the monster version of Timaeus or other fusion spells (That outside Secrets of Dark Magic you also can't search) probably don't need to but that is more on how you run the deck. Also, calling it an "early era" support card. I mean, I wouldn't call 2014 early by any means. Dark Magic Curtain, Thousand Knives, Miracle Restoring, Skilled Dark Magician, Dark Sage. Now those are early era Dark Magician support cards not to run anymore. That being said, I agree with all the comments calling for it to be errata'd it only makes it more powerful and I'm all for it.

[@mekahans3678]

Welcome to another episode of "Will it Works" And now we has Timaeus, that has "Dark Magician" on it text

[@Oimfiel]

I wish the three legendary dragon fusion spells would get some legacy support

[@jeanpitre5789]

I'm still pulling timaeus with magicians rod and you can't stop me with your O.J. Simpson defense

[@robertcarsten4050]

Okay Cheater. Might as well use it to search a blue eyes while you're at it.

[@mikeanzo1954]

So dark magician isn’t a dark magician monster? This is why goats, Edison, and 2002 format are better

[@thesnebs4024]

It's the opposite, a "dark magician" monster is not THE dark magician

[@r3zaful]

A dark magician monster doesn't meant that they are the OG Dark magician.

[@RSanchez111]

Ok yugioh lawyering has officially jumped the shark

[@beatsbyadmiralz5915]

This just further shows how the game went off the rails because of card texts (missing the timing being another example)

[@megaspacewaffles]

Cards don’t miss the timing anymore. That’s an OLD text issue not a modern one

[@yuukihanato9691]

@@megaspacewaffles Technically you can still miss timing due to chains

[@megaspacewaffles]

@@yuukihanato9691 with what cards?

[@brendancurrie8516]

​@megaspacewaffles i missed timing on one of my Monarch cards the other day. It absolutely still happens.

[@ryansanagustin6553]

@@megaspacewafflesCards with “When x, you can…” effects can still miss timing

[@zealiouszone8861]

12:35 Yeah those points... When I first played this game I didn't use any of those points while playing through the story. Because of that I had to rely on crisis ring for high-level fights.

[@IamNster]

I mean, we have the whole ass dragon now so who cares

[@toondude78]

Everyone's like "well the deck would be too busted" and just forgot that Dark Magician GIRL exists and has her own dragon knight fusion, hence the wording.

[@ChristianHernandez-up7dx]

As a Dark Magician player, I can say that I…. am sick of this topic. The card is a decade old and people still talk about it getting a text update as if Konami ever promised it to us in the first place. Just let it die already.

[@Theonetruefinalboss]

This is the whole reason an Academy for duelling exists in the anime.

[@bluemew22]

Konami can fix this by either issuing what is known as a BKSS, or by reprinting Timaeus with an errata that specifically lists both DM and DMG instead. Because I highly doubt they will release a Fusion that requires specifically Dark Magician Knight or Skilled Dark Magician any time soon.

[@aizenvermillion434]

My casual playing brain after watching this clip: "If I think it can search, it will search it!" In all seriousness, I just realized that now thanks to this clip. In my case, since my youngest brother plays the card and has been searching it with DM searchers. I'm willing to erase this from my memory and pretend that it still would be able to. XD

[@UOTQAUIBO]

This technicality is so fucking stupid that my friends and I just ignore it when we play lol

[@iscream4761]

Now i understand why there was a Duel Academy

[@drsteiner12]

DM archetype really done dirty when Branded fusion exists

[@Shikaschima]

Every non official tournament ever: Yeah, no, fuck your rules.

[@davidmcleod1760]

Its in the vortex of Spells structure pack in Master Duel though.

[@DavidLeeTurner1]

Wow, I never knew Yugioh had so many fans who were also lawyers.

[@andrewb200]

Was wondering why I couldn’t add it with circle, thanks

[@neoinfinity5204]

DMG effect is another example of convoluted wording cause she can’t get stronger from her copies or use dark magician specific spells 😕

[@-AirKat-]

Not to mention her effect is useless in her on archetype

[@kingcreedo6010]

I used this card in my Dark magician deck often. The objective is to mill/search the other searchable cards to get this later or earlier. Or the ability to place cards in any order and use draw cards to get it in the hand.

[@xyzen9673]

And THIS is why the duel academy existed

[@Moshuun]

But “lists Dark Magician” IN ITS TEXT is exactly what it does. They should reference DM as “a Normal Monster named Dark Magician”

[@robertcarsten4050]

In psct the phrase "mentions [card name]" took over for the phrase "that specifically mentions the card [card name]" but there is no functional change for how the phrase works But as explained in this video the eye of timaeus does not mention the card dark magician, it mentions the entire category of monsters that have "dark magician" in their name

[@brentdrysdale4730]

And they're still wording cards like this today.

[@frostymonarq]

Struggled with this one when the Yubel field spell came out too

[@neovongola8015]

So if it instead listed “Dark Magician” or “Dark Magician Girl” it’d be fine

[@Marseyestrada98]

Doesn't stop my cousin lol

[@Shiftry87]

Not a player but what your saying is that the card could still do what it needs to do but The eye of Timaeus card itself cant be searched out by other cards becouse its effect mentions Dark Magician monsters and not Dark Magician so the whole combo is very unreliable if i got that right. U need to draw the card becouse u cant search for it.

[@juanpablolamas5335]

It's the legendary ocean thing all over again!

[@a1rg3ar31]

It should be changed to "Target 1 "Dark Magician", or 1 monster that specifically lists the card "Dark Magician" in its text".

[@6630033]

I use that card religiously, a two of in my deck, and it works 😂😂😂

[@PhantoRoyce]

Turns out I was breaking the rules in my community college tourneys because I certainly did exactly that in my DM deck and nobody stopped me

[@druid_zephyrus]

"Early...Era" Oh gods im so old

[@martinnoreallymartin3661]

People saying this needs an errata ... It doesn't need an errata, it just needs a decent judge to rule it to work as intended.

[@robertcarsten4050]

It does work as intended..... Exactly as the card text involved dictates it would work. It would need an errata for it to be searchable with cards such as "magicians rod" But that was never the intention

[@martinnoreallymartin3661]

@@robertcarsten4050 it specifically mentions "Dark Magician" so idk how that's intended

[@robertcarsten4050]

@@martinnoreallymartin3661 no it doesn't..... To specifically mention dark magician you have to be referring specifically to the card "dark magician" not a category of every card that has the phrase "dark magician" contained in its card name

[@realzionygo]

Magician's Rod: Searches and adds a card with "Dark Magician" in its text. Eye of Timaeus: Literally has "Dark Magician" in its text. Judges that can't read: *fat guy shaking head no* "No! That's not how that card works!" *panting out of breath*

[@robertcarsten4050]

Wow..... You're obviously a great guy. Ironically if you knew how to read problem solving card text you wouldn't have made this comment. As the phrase "that mentions [card name]" took over for the older phrase "that specially lists [card name] in its card text" Which timeaus obviously doesn't do as it doesn't mention any specific card in its card text.....it mentions a group of monsters that have the string "dark magician" in there name. The reading issue doesn't rest with the fat judges on this one

[@realzionygo]

@@robertcarsten4050 Learn humor and sarcasm. You will be a better person for it.

[@robertcarsten4050]

@@realzionygo oh the irony of you not understanding humor when it's at your expense. 🤷 But I'm sure we could write several books about the things you don't understand

[@realzionygo]

@@robertcarsten4050 Be my guest. Whatever makes you sleep better at night

[@echo.romeo.]

​@@robertcarsten4050 Your reply wasn't humorous. It was ad hominem mixed into a logical counter-argument.

[@ReederMG]

This was one of the most frustrating things to learn while playing Duel Links

[@vantablackecho]

It looks like there’s plenty of space for them to say [“Dark Magician” or “Dark Magician Girl” you control …]

[@fogblades6811]

Konami Needs to make a "Common Sense" ruling. If there's a card that genuinely fits in cases like this, you should be able to pull that shit off. I don't care.

[@nuraqilasidek-qk7zp]

And imagine how I looked like trying to explain card rulings to a 12 year old who never ever play the game

[@cynaxis4002]

So, for the frog archetype they had on every card "not frog the jam" to exclude a card nobody would use anyway but here, to include a card in his own archetype, nothing. Good job konami.

[@robertcarsten4050]

The issue isn't that dark magician isn't a "dark magician monster", he is. The issue is that eye of timaeus does not reference the card dark magician specifically, it mentions the category of all monsters with the words "dark magician" anywhere in its name

[@Renvil_]

It makes perfect sense. When you can search for a card that mentions ["name"] card, you can’t search a card that names ["word(s)" card]. When you have effects that mention a monster, it’s specific, but many searchera that specify a part of the cards’ names, that can be only parts of the name, like ["lswarm" cards] can be either «evilswarm» or «steelswarm», while ["Steelswarm Scout"] is a specific card.

[@MrLimbo-lj9hc]

sense? sure. perfect sense? hell no.

[@BryanFregosi]

This is one of the many instances where konami just makes the game hard and dumber for all

[@tomasgoes]

Lord Nikita heard his plea for a WD-40... And said "No".

[@skylo706]

From an occasional DM Deck player, I have to say that it doesn't matter at all. You don't go for this card as your masterplan, it's a card you may or may not use if you draw it. The deck wants other things to happen but if you draw it, it's nice to have. Edit: To better understand, your search cards are only used to get either dark magician or girl on the field or get eternal spirit etc on the field. Afterwards you don't really play search cards anymore and if you do, you mostly go for something like (Forgot the name, sorry) the trap card that can special summon a dm from hand and dg afterwards or the spell that destroys every card your opponent controls if you have dm and dg on field

[@edwardkelly1262]

That card could work so good if the replace "Dark Magician" Monster with "Dark Magician" or "Dark Magician Girl". I got to believe they will at some point so that.

[@UnCreativeDeconstructionism]

At this point yami doesn't even know what the fuck happened to yu-ig-oh!

[@gabbiereis8953]

I run 3 of these and bank on the heart of the cards to draw into one

[@the1onlynoob]

I STILL PLAY THIS CARD BECAUSE WHILE SEARCH IS GOOD I LIKE PLEASANT SURPRISES

[@theonomaly6389]

I would like to say that I actually find the Eye to be very helpful. I actually have 2 uses for it in my Dark Magician deck, and it really is nice to have. I must say though, I have been getting a bit curious on attempting some of the ritual summoning variants of the Dark Magician deck.

[@jasv49]

It’s incredible how popular this game still manages to be even with all the needlessly and intentionally obtuse and overcomplicated card rulings.