How can New Zealand Rugby’s U20 system catch up with France, England and South Africa?

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[@will_274]

New Zealand under 20s used to be almost unbeatable. Just goes to show how far the professional game has progressed.

[@rory7590]

It is the impact of COVID. The number of games NZ U20 (and earlier age grades) players get to play is seriously lower than it used to be.

[@GBH001]

⁠@@rory7590it was happening before then. We just don’t have the same amount of focus at this level that other nations do. We are seriously outmuscled at this level

[@bgreen240]

I don’t think we should be too concerned. The NH under 20’s are more advanced in their physical development at this stage but I think we still have the more natural gifted athletes. The physical development stuff will come.

[@idgaf2024]

@@bgreen240you have a point. NZ will be fine. There’s just a bigger spotlight now than ever

[@idgaf2024]

@@GBH001I don’t see the need to focus some of our limited resources on dominating Under 20s rugby.

[@mikescudder4621]

Sevu Reece is single handedly holding the Crusaders together.

[@KernowekTim]

He just finishes the work done inside him. But he does it well.

[@nepiahemopo1702]

Will Razor select him?

[@Sloppyjoe7390]

That's rubbish they weren't doing much better without him, me and my father love watching Reece he is one of our favorites and he is a major impact for the crusaders but saying he is single handly hold the crusaders together is rubbish.

[@mikescudder4621]

@@nepiahemopo1702 Of course

[@mikescudder4621]

@@Sloppyjoe7390 Its an easy equation. Just look at the number of try saving tackles/moments he makes and how many tries he scores or creates. Against the Canes for example, without a doubt, if he wasn't there the canes would have run away with the game. Maybe he needs to go down injured for you to understand how valuable he is right now to the Crusaders???

[@markrose1237]

Ireland underage system is probably the most improved out of any tip tier country in the last 5 years

[@davidwalker2402]

Not lost a 6 nations game in 4 years and won back to back grand slams

[@unclenick7397]

Aumua is playing some great rugby at the moment, best no2 in NZ currently.

[@robmac3103]

Josh Moorby…at last a rugby show has mentioned him! Consistently excellent for the past few years

[@Rayzajw]

He's been great for northland in the NPC too. Great workrate

[@AK-wc9rl]

Unfortunately he's moving to France this year. The player drain continues.

[@Mojo16011973]

You may need to change the title of this video. Ireland have won 3 Grand Slams in the last 5 U20 Six Nations tournaments.

[@markrutherford6010]

French and South African forwards at under 20 level are absolute monsters. These guys big,tall,mobile and harden.Our guys mature a little bit later. This is why All Blacks XV team is so important to development of our players. NPC Rugby is important development stage too.

[@GBH001]

South Africa aren’t that great a side at that level. It’s Ireland, France and England that have been the big movers over the last 10 years. France especially

[@neill392]

South Africa do well at u18's, but there's a reason. Because of the difference in the school year and rugby season they are almost a full year older than the Northern Hemisphere teams. U20's is the 1st age group with a common qualification date and they've won in once.

[@VernonHowe-rs1lt]

​@@GBH001I Agree with that Statement. True. But why are The New Zealand U20s not in that Physical and Robust state that they must be in. I Hope they are doing something about it. This development has to of had progressed long time by now.

[@GBH001]

@@VernonHowe-rs1lt from what I have read, the NZR have them focussed more on technique at that point of their development and not so much on their strength and conditioning. Of course, other teams are much better now than they were 5-10 years ago. I’m not sure if that is the main reason why but it’s noticeable hollow we get pushed around against some forward packs

[@bgreen240]

@@GBH001 Yes I have heard that and if that is the case then I agree with it. Strength and conditioning is easily rectified at a later date but skill and technique take a lot longer and it is more important to nail that at an early age. The under 20's comp is far more competitive now than it was 10 years ago but I see winning it as secondary to development.

[@Knowyourintent]

A lot of the Hurricanes players from Wellington Lions and Hawkes Bay NPC teams have had finals experience in the last 2 years

[@sprigcs]

Speaking of younger players, how good is Peter Lakai? He has only just turned 21. Do you see him as an apprentice option for the AB's?

[@DrissZyanisorrybutyourtimeisfi]

He Will be in the squad all blacks with brendan Iose for sure

[@MrK1ngi]

He's been hyped up for 2 years now. It's nice to see him fulfil his huge potential..

[@KiwiGraggle]

I do not think NZ is behind, I just think over the years, our talent has been leaving for the UK, France, Japan. The New Zealand story is success, right up until wee see the talent leaving for more money abroad, some end up playing for those countries they went too, aka Ireland, a prime example of a high quality team that has Kiwi and SA people within the side. To me, this does not bother me, I respect Ireland and could not care less if we have Lowe and other Kiwis playing for them, they are a great side. I also think NZ are not behind Ireland, SA and England. These are delusional comments to make, in all honesty. This year as an example, 2024, I think we will see the emergence of a much more powerful and bigger ABs pack. Looking at the Hurricanes, they are looking more like an older style All-Blacks side. The only potential issue to me is at 10 and 12, but even then, certainly 12, NZ have quality at 13 and 12, just need to be given the chance. So development wise, well when you are trying to compete with France, England and Ireland, all of which appear to have better leagues, but has been built up on foreign players, playing in those countries as to why it is now so successful. Last WC, to me NZ were cheated as an example, disallowed try, not kicking to corner, etc, etc, to me suggests that NZ is not behind at all. I would also like to say, that France have only beaten NZ once in the past 10 odd years. So this France has taken over NZ is not happening. Ireland are genuine contenders, but I feel that NZ can compete and beat anyside, end of. What people think in NH and on the media I take with a pinch of salt. NZ to me, need to stop letting the talent go, but how do they do this, when France, English, Irish sides pay proper money?. You get Japan involved, THAT is what you do. Get them involved in Super Rugby, first of all. Rugby Championship needs updating, Fiji and Japan need to be included, to give us 5 Nations in effect, but it will still be short on the 6 Nations. Of course back home in NZ, they could just give up, and stop whining, by just letting all the best players in NZ leave, it is happening naturally anyway, so why not just continue in the vain NZ rugby is going to end up in soon, if it continues to let its talent go for a year here, 3 years their, etc.

[@bobafettucine]

South Africa? NZ have won two U20 Championships since SA last made a final. I assume you meant France, England and Ireland.

[@duwaynepillay3233]

Lol! If South africa was allowed to pick their best team without political interference, you'd see a huge difference. Other countries do not have the handicaps that south africa have

[@lifes-entertainment2484]

England listener here, i love the answers that are given in this show. People develop mentality and physical differently. Plus having a propa job in the real world really gives you greater perspective on what it means to play in elite sport. Absolutely brilliant perspective. Great show

[@kainoizking]

Could listen to Jip talk code all day.

[@GBH001]

He is really good to listen too. Intelligent, knows his rugby, too geezer👍

[@michaelkwameamui2757]

Varsity Cup Competition is doing very well in South Africa and a lot of players come out of that system, into the big provincial teams. The rules are also strict to ensure the players focus on studies and not just rugby.

[@mikescudder4621]

Does well over there because its still primarily a private school game.

[@rubain]

​@@mikescudder4621No it's not. Most of our top schools are public schools(expensive yes but public). All universities in the Varsity Cup are public universities as well.

[@dantewalters5209]

@@mikescudder4621 because most of the players are drafted from the schools in the suburbs, especially in Cape Town. Not rich kids. All drafted to Paarl Gim, Paarl Boys, Paul Roos, Boland agricultural etc.

[@Wezwp]

@@rubain technically they are advantageous schools.might be called public but they are expensive

[@Wezwp]

@@dantewalters5209 they certainly are not poor kids.

[@jamesblewman]

Canes have a great mixture of experience and young talent, plus they will almost certainly have home ground advantage come the finals. It's the Canes to lose this year. Could be a very good 3-4 years for the Canes.

[@fossilmatic]

Cameron appears to be more like a Grant Fox type of first five. 8 years of hoping twinkle toes would swing it for us behind a less than dominant pack has not paid dividends, however much we wish it had been the case. With really strong running and supporting players along the spine, especially the 9s, you can have a pivot who sets the play but doesn’t breach the defence himself. The Chiefs have the opposite situation and got found out a bit. The Canes mid field got up so fast on the line and pinched the space out wide so Mac couldn’t run around into it. I don’t think the lack of a mercurial flyhalf is a problem for a side that has so much forward momentum and endless support runners off the shoulder.

[@JackJones-tu5pi]

Ireland have won 4 of the last 6 six nations titles .. 3 being grandslams and the tournament they were dominating called off with Covid… smashed the saffa u20s last year beaten France u20s 4 out of the last 5 times they’ve played …yet aren’t in the title …ahahahah

[@MA-ik7ys]

who cares. Ireland cant make it out of the semis

[@mungoblizzard6114]

Arrogant “see you in the final” Irish people

[@elhefe808]

Thought Amoa and Perenara clearly outplayed their chiefs counterparts

[@KernowekTim]

They did. Chiefs supporter.

[@rogue_luko]

Who is 'Amoa'?

[@elhefe808]

@@rogue_luko my uncle

[@lordJordNorg]

@@rogue_lukomust have been a big bird

[@hmmmyeahnahdoh823]

Big bird's distant Polynesian Guzzin 😂

[@ToheMangaMan]

The way I understand it, several years ago people at the governance level began to worry about the pressures of professionalism on young players...kids suffering burn-out, the temptation to take drugs (steroids etc), well to do schools poaching talent, so they decided to "ease" up and allow these young lads to develop in a more "rounded" way....education, life experience so on. Other countries, France, Ireland, England, Italy went the opposite way and have increased their professional development of their youngsters and the results are there for all to see. Good on them BUT it would be interesting to see the how much...if any.....damage has been done to those that haven't fulfilled their potential because of injuries, burn-out, drugs etc. It's not just the under 20s, It starts at 14, 15 year olds. Do they have strong policies to deal with those that fall by the wayside?....because I'm sure the casualty list will be LONG. Not everyone can become Coaches, TV commentators and the life of a professional sportsman can be brutally SHORT, especially in a high impact sport like Rugby Union.

[@BlairEastwood23]

Will be interesting to see if there's any fall back to that in future years as those negative effects probably haven't been fully felt yet in those systems.

[@fredster-747]

Do you agree that Numia has a chance of starting for the ABs this year considering how dominant he is and the fact that Jason Ryan hasn’t even coached him yet (as far as I’m aware)

[@BigBoyGames-ke1hq]

can someone at skysport timestamp these uploads

[@IanLapham-et1tw]

Another great show fellas - regards from Cambodia

[@BlairEastwood23]

Long time listener, first time caller here. Love the pod and especially the more technical analysis offered up by Jipper around the dark arts of scrums/lineouts/mauls which one-time wingers like myself have no idea about. Question for the pod is, with the resurgence of the Australian teams on this World Cup cycle, do you think it's time for super rugby to abandon the idea of the top 8 going through to the knockout stages and instead have the top 6 or top 4 instead? I feel it was always the top 8 so there would have to be representation from both conferences in the final stages. The fact that teams 6,7 and 8 currently have losing records and can still make the finals feels wrong to me and I think it detracts from the round robin stages completely as these matches mean a lot less than they otherwise would.

[@BoomsRiddico4868]

Any mention of Geordie Barrett going to Leinster?

[@DrissZyanisorrybutyourtimeisfi]

Only for 6 months and he choised it like sabbatical year. He has New contrat with all blacks until 2028.

[@PhilClegg]

One of the best ever pods. Excellent insight about what we have to do about our youth. That's more like it. Thank you lad's!

[@JackKinross]

Totally agree.

[@barryryan14]

The Irish U20s made the last u20 World Cup final. They've won 4 of the last 6, six nations. 3 being grand slams. They came 2nd level on points with England in 2024 and lost the title on points scored by a handful of points. Research and Kiwi pundits don't go together. Listening to JK or Wilson talk you'd think it was 1997.

[@petelosuaniu]

The French u20s destroyed them at last year’s world championship final

[@JackJones-tu5pi]

@@petelosuaniuIreland had beaten France 4 years in a row in the six nations yet one game in the WC mean French u20s are better ? 😂 how you gonna ignore the last 4 games against the Irish and they also lost this year to the Ireland u20s lmao

[@petelosuaniu]

@@JackJones-tu5pi The Irish youngsters just choke at world cups just like their fathers before and after them

[@MA-ik7ys]

ireland cant win semis so who cares. Just growing up to get booted out in the semis in the rwc.

[@barryryan14]

@MA-ik7ys the south African has entered the chat

[@johannesapril2590]

You cannot coach that X-factor that Asafo brings but you can coach him to scrum and lineout throws.

[@julianalderson3938]

Hurries yer' great bench very hard to pick run on team. But great prob to have. Think they can win for sure just keepin that flow. Cheers

[@stephenwall1937]

Moorby is off to Montpellier. Weird they didn’t know this. Reece likely off to France too.

[@Rayzajw]

Yeah I figured morby was due for a payday. Good for him

[@mikescudder4621]

re Moorby

[@robmac3103]

Sad to see Moorby go, but you can’t blame him

[@keithpouwhare1281]

How many world cups England n France won between themselves, they peak too early, we keep growing into the game

[@markrutherford6010]

We have some real grunters at Lock for the All Blacks. But we are bit short on genuine leapers at line out time. We need win our line outs.

[@tuttyusbuttyus]

I feel you, Chris. As a 'canes fan, I totally get where you are coming from, though I do think they've shown this year that they can grind out a win and overcome momentum shifts that favor the opposition. They've beaten all of the NZ teams so far, and though I wouldn't be surprised if they drop one or two before the knockouts, I think they have what they need to win it all this year. I kinda want them to lose one game before the knockouts as like a pressure release, but also want them to maintain a high standard of "win every game".

[@robcousins231]

The NZ and Irish U20s will always have smaller packs than the Boks, French and English. Yet, they can still be successful. Ireland won consecutive Grand Slams at U20 from 2022-23 beating both the French and English home and away over that period. They missed out on the championship to England this year on points after beating all the teams, including the French, away but drawing against England, who took the trophy on points. If you saw the Irish side lining up for the anthems with the French and English, you would think there was no way they could compete, But they did with better skill and technique. Very All Blacks like, in fact.

[@neill392]

There is an issue you're missing, during the 6nations, the French and English club competitions continue. So, players with the chance of club 1st team gametime are released back to their clubs. This year is the 1st year the premiership has had a break. Because they played the cup comp during the World Cup break and because of the reduction in number of teams.

[@liamwilliams6651]

Bit odd that France and England are in the title when Ireland have dominated the u20s 6N ever since 2018. As you said, only very narrowly lost this year and remained undefeated. Also beat SA in SA in the semi final last summer.

[@mungoblizzard6114]

Yet.. they still can’t get out the quarter finals

[@julianalderson3938]

Yes reece and taleha are both pwerful and fit, if not massive wingers

[@johannesapril2590]

The difference between France,Ireland England and NZ is you really don't want to select the best in New Zealand

[@DrissZyanisorrybutyourtimeisfi]

Nz under 20 Will dominate again . The rugby championship is good préparation for them and there are many rising talent in this squad 30.

[@robertmariu6783]

Crusaders have a different coach ; gonna have different results !

[@kingq4113]

I mean they have lost there best number 10?

[@Rayzajw]

Fergus Burke was next in line but his injury last year killed that. And now he's leaving for England ​@kingq4113

[@sambell309]

Karl Ross be like: the game is won down back

[@julianalderson3938]

Cheers jarred rekon the maul not used enough or defended so well these days.

[@Sloppyjoe7390]

I believe the highlanders need to put Sam gilbert back into the position of fullback for one.

[@mathewkirk1748]

How to get better at U20s? Start by making sure kids actually attend and finish high school. Kids in school makes school rugby strong and the trickle-up will happen - the bridge is only 12-18 months from that point. Half of the good prospects probably wash-out of rugby due to a lack of scholastic discipline in their mid-teens now.

[@peakey8874]

Should Super Rugby link with more competitions around the pacific to compete with European Competitions and mentor them into being fully fledged rugby nations that can develop their own players? America has lots of uni American Football players that don’t make it into the NFL and could easily become rugby players

[@dragonmcgregor8007]

ive watched rugby all my life and id say the rule changes, soft calls and red n yellow cards thrown out like pamphlets have really neutralised New Zealands most unique ability! thats the pace they play the game and their running abilities and skill. with a minimum of 25 penalties a game and all the stoppages for video refs it really slows down the games thus other teams are getting more rest whilst keeping the score close with kicks. all blacks usually overwhelm teams with the pace they play, people think its their size but its their size mixed with mobility that really seperates them. and their ability to tire teams out have diminished now refs call everything and nothing

[@CF-lg8jd]

Pretty sure Ireland have the highest ball in play time and quickest game plan, so this immediately discredits your comment,

[@ToheMangaMan]

@@CF-lg8jd AND there you go...another Leprechaun springing up on a New Zealand Rugby show trying to prove how much better they are at playing Rugby Union than the All Blacks. Remind us....when was the last time Ireland made it out of the 1/4 finals of the most important Rugby Union tournament known to man? ....and who was it that thrashed them at the last 2 tournaments....I'll give you one guess and NO, the Irish did not beat themselves, that's known in the Southern Hemisphere as "Masturbation" hahahaha

[@dragonmcgregor8007]

@@CF-lg8jd nah bruh you cant tell me with a straight face that they havent doubled in penalties and cards in the last decade. and irelands game plan wasnt quick enough in the world cup sorry so your comment is discredited too

[@mikescudder4621]

Great to see that the Hurricanes rugby pod is back this week! Love it!

[@Frankabagnale33]

Ireland have been dominating the U20 six nations, June the professional 6 nations. Where is England in this conversation? SA?

[@hdg0pc70]

I thought that talent spotting in New Zealand lead the world for a long time. No system can stay on top for ever.

[@DownUnderWarboss]

Imagine if the NZRFU only supported financially viable teams? Imagine what that funding would do for the under 20's.

[@geoffreysmith49]

6-2 split!

[@davidwalker2402]

Ridiculous how you ignore Ireland in your title, so many gran slam wins unbeaten the last 3 years in the 6 nations hmmmmm..

[@itistrue101]

Juice and not the orange kind.

[@UNCLE401]

They should let super rugby nz teams do haka at the beginning of games, but when its nz sr teams vsing. each other just a idea

[@poetixt9960]

Bring Back Bullrush!

[@IzingaI]

Hurri-CANES. This host drives me mad naming our team wrong. They are not the Hurri-kins.

[@kairakuwaeldreor3868]

Everyone in Canes territory needs to thank Razor for taking Jason Holland away🎉

[@mikescudder4621]

Canes have been pretty consistent mate over the last few seasons ...and building.

[@sprigcs]

@@mikescudder4621 indeed, the squad was built by Holland and Co for the largest part.

[@kairakuwaeldreor3868]

@@sprigcs Correct. His overall identification of talent is good. However, he never got the players as fit as they are now. Because of this they were unable to respond so well and maintain the correct game plan, later into games. They did not have the disipline that they do now and over all of that Holland did not manage his players rest periods well, and made very poor substitutions in many critical matches. I think that he is absolutely a great technical coach, but I do not think he would have ever got the team functioning this well in total as a head coach.

[@mikescudder4621]

@@kairakuwaeldreor3868 Mate. Do you not remember that last season the Canes had the best statistics for the last 20 minutes??

[@masterroshimagazines4354]

Taking super rugby away from free to air television was a killer blow to NZ rugby imo

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

The question needs to be what is it about the Warriors that makes the fans turn out in such numbers and to cheer at such volumes for the games and how does rugby adapt. Rugby is mired in gang shootings and poor presentation and is leaking numbers badly. Nz rugby seems intent on resting on laurels that have long since flown out the window. If they don't wake up soon, league will overrun them.

[@187-SaltyCrackers]

It's because our best players play league mainly the brown community

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

@@187-SaltyCrackers I have no interest in separatism.

[@bgreen240]

@@187-SaltyCrackersNot sure about that. We have some serious talent coming through, not sure if you watched the under 20’s? I know we lose some to league but there are plenty a top quality players coming through.

[@bgreen240]

The Warriors are certainly doing well at the moment and have captured the public’s imagination. There are a few things there. Firstly they are playing in a very strong and well run comp that a lot of NZ’s followed before the Warriors came along, so there is alot of connection. Secondly they are NZ’s only team so a lot of people rightly or wrongly consider them a NZ side, in the sense that they represent NZ. Just remember that this is really all that League has. All their eggs are in the club basket. Their international season is virtually non existent and is seen as second fiddle to the NRL. Obviously Rugby is different and has a quality international component to it. While I think that we certainly need to develop the “professional club” component, which I think they have realised and are starting to do we have so much more to offer.

[@michaelmoynihan9591]

Jordie o barrett going back to his irish root,s.😂😂😂😂.

[@davidwalker2402]

Shows just how little New Zealanders know how rugby is moving these days. A bit ignorant is all I can say about this useless rubbish,,

[@graemehuia5964]

Oh to be young & under 20 again, good times 😂

[@becauseimbatman7240]

NZ under 20s just not good enough these days

[@DrissZyanisorrybutyourtimeisfi]

Hurricanes the best team and will win the title.

[@therichestmaninbabylon]

100 000 nz boys taking on 3 to 5 times the pool talent .. shut up click bait

[@petermichael2504]

NZ U20 is useless sadly. There's only about 20 serious 1st XVs in NZ, and below that nada, zilch. Combination of CTE, anxious mums and the popularity of basketball, nba, NRL etc

[@robertmariu6783]

Bring Vahacolo inside so she gets more of the ball !

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

That's a different skill set, kicking, distribution....plus there's an abundance of good midfielders already, Amy Duplesis, Silvia Brunt, Grace Brooker, Grace Steinmetz. Maliepo and Demant can cover the midfield also....so, if it ain't broke....

[@ThePhilcam]

Horse has bolted! NZ used to have a rugby culture but now kids are playing all and every sport and the athletes are well diluted. The cotton wool culture hasn’t helped… Either has NZ rugby taking rugby off air to all but those that can afford it. The skill level of the ABs now in comparison to the 80s and 90s is woeful, the only improvement is now they are proper athletes but athletes that can’t pass or catch will never win a World Cup. The bs coming out of NZ rugby about growing the game is about women’s rugby but even there countries such as England and the US will grow bigger and faster players just on shear numbers in the game. Time we went back to the quotes some of the players were making about professionalism back in the day, no doubt you will find someone saying it would be the death of NZ rugby…

[@Marius_vanderLubbe]

The chiefs are again looking like a paper tiger.

[@jamesblewman]

Suggest leaving coverage of women's rugby to 'The Breakdown ' as the overwhelming majority of viewers just aren't interested. Whilst the focus of the show is NZ rugby, maybe also include some converage, news, and updates, etc of overseas rugby comps.

[@steveosullivan4211]

FIRST, it is NEW ZEALAND, Second, get the wok clowns and EEO fools out of the game...start with merit first, second and last...

[@DarkMoonWayfarer]

Is a wok clown someone who cooks a stir fry in a humourous way?

[@haydenjacobs5866]

Lol. Wok clown, good one. But we catch your drift Steve. Rugby is supposed to be tough with heavy collisions. That's the appeal of rugby. You don't see the UFC downplay the violence and aggression in their sport.

[@mikedow4000]

Ok Grandad, lets get you to bed

[@Sloppyjoe7390]

Ardie isnt the worlds best player currently, he was the world best player last year you need to get your facts straight.

[@Intergalatikk]

Then who’s the best player this year?

[@Sloppyjoe7390]

​@@Intergalatikk only time will tell

[@Intergalatikk]

@@Sloppyjoe7390 So until then - Ardie is the best player

[@Sloppyjoe7390]

@@Intergalatikk naah your wrong

[@Intergalatikk]

@@Sloppyjoe7390 You can’t even name the best player, you need to get your facts straight 😂

[@stephenwall1937]

Moorby is off to Montpellier. Weird they didn’t know this. Reece likely off to France too.

[@RossKarl]

Hi. The show is recorded on a Monday. It was before the Moorby and Barrett announcements. Ross