How can "No Elements" maps in Portal 2 be so hard?

  Рет қаралды 101,075

Mike Daas

Mike Daas

Күн бұрын

Almost all Portal 2 puzzles in the workshop contain at least one testing element, be it a laser, a light bridge or a funnel. However, there is a whole subgenre of puzzles dedicated to achieving highly interesting puzzles without using any elements whatsoever. In this short video we explore some of the ideas behind these puzzles and showcase some solutions.
Discord server: / discord
Portal 2 video essay playlist: • Portal 2 video essays
Check out my second channel for music and gameplay videos: / @mikeastro2
Please feel free to share your thoughts in the comments below.
Links to the collections and maps that I show or discuss in the video in order:
- "No Elements" Collection: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
- Expanded collection:
steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
- "No Elements: Seesaw" by Almisuifre:
- "No Elements: Connection" by Hazellius: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
- "Reliquiae #1" by me: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
- "No Elements: Coprime (Remake)" by me: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Are you a new player looking to start playing and making some good maps? Consider checking out the following links.
RedSilencer's ''Introduction to the Workshop'' collection:
steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
My ''Reliquiae'' collection:
steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
''No elements'' connection to learn about momentum and portal preservation:
steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Thumbnail made by theCCguy. Huge thanks to them!
Their workshop: steamcommunity.com/id/theccguy
Music: made by me.
I often upload my music on my second channel, linked above.
There's also / mike-daas-1 and mikeastro.bandcamp.com/.
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:47 - Origin of "No Elements" puzzles
03:32 - The "No Elements" collection
08:25 - More "No Elements" ideas and maps
10:28 - Advice and outro

Пікірлер: 180
@ldidok
@ldidok Жыл бұрын
Disclaimer: don't let maps with just portalable surfaces trick you into thinking they didn't spend months deciding where to put each surface
@slyceth
@slyceth Жыл бұрын
Well doesn't that take away all fun in freedom?
@ImDaRealBoi
@ImDaRealBoi Жыл бұрын
@@slyceth not really. The freedom is in figuring out where portals go. They themselves are a very complex element, and when you take out all other ideas and gimmicks, you can focus on building a map that utilizes surfaces, sightlights, momentum and paths to their fullest. No extra stuff, just portals, but when you ask a poet to describe the house in front of him, he will not just say it is a house. Essentially, investing more time into one elememt makes the experience with it much more complex and interesting than one note and dull Or you could just, y'know, watch the video
@Saposhiente
@Saposhiente Жыл бұрын
@@slyceth The level with total freedom would let you just walk to the exit if you want. Fun comes from restrictions :)
@pirilon78
@pirilon78 Жыл бұрын
@@slyceth "no freedom in my PUZZLE game? Unheard of!"
@xdarin_
@xdarin_ Жыл бұрын
Putting portal surfaces on a noportal field requires you to apply as much thought as putting actual portals on it.
@rocketrifter
@rocketrifter Жыл бұрын
This is inspiring from a game design perspective: there's this expectation that you need a slew of mechanics to make an engaging experience. But as exemplified here, you can do so much with the bare minimum! It goes to show that it's not about how many mechanics you can put in a game, but how you utilize them.
@slyceth
@slyceth Жыл бұрын
Well you can look to Baba is You for the best example of this
@FluxLemniskat
@FluxLemniskat Жыл бұрын
@@slyceth I liked BIY, but tbh. it added a TON of new mechanics, therefore I don't think it really fits what OP said. A better example IMO would be a true simple Sokoban game.
@thego-dev
@thego-dev Жыл бұрын
"a puzzle is not finished when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing that can be taken away."
@wetswordfighter
@wetswordfighter Жыл бұрын
fortnite needs to see this comment, that greedy ass unoriginal game adds a new mechanic every 3 months smh
@vappyreon1176
@vappyreon1176 Жыл бұрын
Modern AAA games: uhh ratio
@prattoychanda3322
@prattoychanda3322 Жыл бұрын
I love no element maps because it really makes you focus on the geometrical and mechanical leverage that portals give you in a more standard scenario. This makes learning and relating the mechanics of portal to real life much more fascinating.🤩
@whyiwakeup6460
@whyiwakeup6460 Жыл бұрын
One problem with these (and probably the reason the “official” campaigns didn’t do similar) is that it requires high reaction speed and sometimes long reset times, which lowers the accessibility a bit.
@FluxLemniskat
@FluxLemniskat Жыл бұрын
That's not entirely true. You can build a No-Elements map where high reaction speed is needed, but you can also build one where it is not necessary and players can do everything without haste. I don't think that was the reason you can't see that in the campaign.
@Timeward76
@Timeward76 Жыл бұрын
@@FluxLemniskat the reason is most likely that they wanted to actually use all those elements they spent months to years working on in their game, which is very fair.
@FluxLemniskat
@FluxLemniskat Жыл бұрын
@@Timeward76 Probably. A pure no element campaign wouldn't appeal to a mainstream audience.
@Bobo-ox7fj
@Bobo-ox7fj Жыл бұрын
This is a very iamverysmart way of saying "it might be too hard". But in reality nobody was sitting around trying to design puzzles that didn't use all the new pretty features that were supposed to distinguish the game from the original.
@ericlee2433
@ericlee2433 Жыл бұрын
@@Bobo-ox7fj No, high reaction speed and long reset times are not what make puzzles hard, that would be the actual difficulty of finding the solution.
@columbus8myhw
@columbus8myhw Жыл бұрын
2:07 Columbus here. I think I was 13 years old at the time! (I'm 23 now.) It's wild to me that something I did so long ago (that is, "ask someone actually skilled to make something") still has an impact on the community today. (13-year-old me obviously didn't know the word "mechanic", lol)
@columbus8myhw
@columbus8myhw Жыл бұрын
Shortly afterwards I started high school and suddenly had no more free time for video games
@Kvemon
@Kvemon Жыл бұрын
Have you ever thought that a cube with legs could be more useful if you think about it? They can be like a timer, for example, you put them against the button, and while it crawls up to it, you need to do something. That's a cool idea!
@the_representative
@the_representative Жыл бұрын
Don't those cubes sometimes curl up their legs if you grab them and don't put their legs out again? I haven't played in a while, so I might be wrong
@Pluvillion
@Pluvillion Жыл бұрын
@@the_representative - they don’t sometimes, yep. They’ll be stuck in a terrified state.
@samuels1123
@samuels1123 Жыл бұрын
It's very difficult to get them to walk onto buttons, it's more common to use a cube sliding through a laser or traveling on a funnel to a button
@blockmath8257
@blockmath8257 Жыл бұрын
No. The frankenturrets will automatically stop moving if they approach a button.
@literallyglados
@literallyglados Жыл бұрын
frankenturrets could be modified into an interesting test element, but by default they are just annoying cubes
@klaus.sfc01official30
@klaus.sfc01official30 Жыл бұрын
Harder than solving these maps (for some reason) is definitly making them without adding cheap tactics like glass everywhere and i respect every individual that made/makes great No elements maps
@Theooolone
@Theooolone Жыл бұрын
Can’t wait for what puzzles get made when these legendary map creators learn about elements
@solutionchanneliguess2899
@solutionchanneliguess2899 Жыл бұрын
Super exciting to see a No Elements video! I know you repeat it several times in the video, but I'll underscore in my comment how incredible, entertaining, and educational the No Elements collection is. I remember it teaching me so much about the general language of tons of Portal 2 puzzles, even those with plenty of elements! More than just flings (which are important and show up everywhere already), the collection taught me to ask questions like "When do I want to connect these two distant areas?" and "When do I want to keep a portal on this particular surface?" It's as if the act of reducing to 'no elements' exposes the skeleton of so many Portal 2 puzzles that can be seen everywhere. I encourage everyone watching this to go play that collection and think about the moves described in the video - it really opens the door for all kinds of Portal 2 maps!
@champswim8622
@champswim8622 Жыл бұрын
Ahh, Mevious, I remember playing a handful of his puzzles years ago, and they all made me feel stupid (in a good way) by how stumped I would get on seemingly simple puzzles. Thanks for making this vid, went back to the game and played through the 20 puzzle collection and loved it. Props to the creators!
@IroAppe
@IroAppe Жыл бұрын
I am now at map 14, so I haven't watched the video further. The No Elements collection demonstrates the Core Portal experience to me: With a wormhole portal, distance doesn't matter. Surfaces and momentum don't have to be locally close to be used. They can be anywhere in the room. The experience to fling yourself into a portal at one end of the room, fly through multiple portals on angled surfaces over a water pit in a completely different room, just to place your portal in the air to the right position and end up somewhere else with the momentum needed. That shows the potential of the concept of Portals more than anything else. And: It shows my favorite puzzle type. I tried to find out what the "element" of these puzzles is, the concept that makes it interesting. It's still difficult to describe that "Portal Management" in clear words. Sometimes you have to set portals on accessible panels near the floor next to drops to save that for later. Floor-accessible panels are way more important in this map collection than you think at first. They allow you to go back and forth and reset portals somewhere else. But sometimes you need to gain momentum in one room to then achieve another location in the other room. And sometimes you have to replace portals while flinging in the air to get them where you need. Maybe if I think a bit about it, I'll be able to describe it more in a general, abstract, way. Maybe it's just the counter-intuitive way of portals that connect places and their possibilities, that we are not used to in that complexity. Nevertheless, it's what makes Portal, Portal.
@grabelli
@grabelli Жыл бұрын
so happy to see youtubers still make videos about portal 2 and especially community maps, loved it, hope you'll get the attention you deserve, king
@kakyoindonut3213
@kakyoindonut3213 Жыл бұрын
so it's one of those genres of creativity where instead of expanding stuff, they instead use it's own limitation to create something new
@Imaproshaman7
@Imaproshaman7 Жыл бұрын
I'm glad to get underrated videos in my recommended. This is really cool.
@HumanoidDerpling
@HumanoidDerpling Жыл бұрын
I've recently been getting into Portal Pro, and although it's quite an old mod its puzzles are so... good. Many of them have very few, if any puzzle elements, and yet they are fascinating and very challenging.
@Crow_Rising
@Crow_Rising Жыл бұрын
I kinda really like the idea of a re-imagined main campaign with all new puzzles that introduces movement concepts through no elements puzzles and then utilizes this movement in follow up puzzles that do use elements. A basic back and forth cycle of doing a no elements puzzle, then at least one if not several puzzles with elements that center around the same movement theme. Movement that the player has already learned could then return at any point in later puzzles, slowly but steadily increasing the difficulty curve, until finally your final gauntlet is an advanced puzzle with no elements in which you must use every form of movement you've learned to progress.
@LB_
@LB_ Жыл бұрын
Yess, finally some appreciation for momentum storage!
@concentratedcringe
@concentratedcringe 8 ай бұрын
I did what you suggested and finished the maps first. I'm back, 6 months later, and I can say with confidence that this map pack is fantastic. I felt like a genius every time I solved a chamber 😌
@MRFAB1
@MRFAB1 Жыл бұрын
No elements maps are my favorite ! I have played so many of them and now there's no more :( Also the difficulty of these moves are nothing compared to the "Jumpator" series made by Polux (I know it's not a true no elements but it's close enough) Polux pushed momentum to the limit something that I don't recommand if you're not a veteran !
@FluxLemniskat
@FluxLemniskat Жыл бұрын
Have you played Talisac's "Easy trigono" (3 parts) and "No Elements: Trigonometry"? IIRC those were really tricky (ninja) no elements maps that are fun *watching*.
@MRFAB1
@MRFAB1 Жыл бұрын
@@FluxLemniskat I haven't ! I will give it a try, thanks for the maps !
@happy13feb
@happy13feb Жыл бұрын
Series of No Elements is masterpiece of Portal
@AngryCaesCorporation
@AngryCaesCorporation Жыл бұрын
This just proves that sometimes "less is more".
@samuels1123
@samuels1123 Жыл бұрын
A way to imagine the deceleration is you are punching holes in the ceiling to avoid collision, and it just happens that the exit hole is not directly above the ceiling
@Azure_Gust931
@Azure_Gust931 Ай бұрын
Wow, thanks for introducing these high quality maps
@MrGermandeutsch
@MrGermandeutsch Жыл бұрын
This video was surprisingly so good, I had to watch it again.
@YishaiBarr
@YishaiBarr Жыл бұрын
I made a No Elements map at the time. It was kind of simple but I think people appreciated it.
@ryanw2ooo
@ryanw2ooo Жыл бұрын
Great video as always! I recently revisited this collection for some inspiration from great puzzlemaker maps; I think the ones mentioned here are the hallmarks of the workshop.
@MandyStaaaar
@MandyStaaaar Жыл бұрын
I played the "No Elements" collection per your recommendation in another video of yours. Didn't regret it taught myself a feel tricks that now I use In my maps :)
@JakubH
@JakubH Жыл бұрын
Thank you for introducing me to such amazing maps. I have never been so frustrated from accidentaly placing the wrong portal :D
@farquhaad3209
@farquhaad3209 Жыл бұрын
Amazing video, looking forwards to seeing more!
@TChapman500Gaming
@TChapman500Gaming Жыл бұрын
No elements is definitely a great concept. However, I do not like the idea of smashing your head against the ceiling to slow down, or you whole body against a wall to stop. If Valve cared to be more realistic, that would injure or kill Chell. Oh, and I love how GLaDOS comments on test subjects in one of her chambers wanting crash helmets because of the chamber designs I just mentioned.
@sud1881
@sud1881 Жыл бұрын
Oh but don’t worry, Cheli is wearing long fall boots which will (obviously) remove Chell’s head to prevent motion sickness, flip over Chell’s body in the direction needed to prevent damage and… voila! Chell’s head is reattached (along with some bonus science bits) all in less than a second. Honestly how hard is this to understand?
@stacksmasherninja7266
@stacksmasherninja7266 Жыл бұрын
Great video as always ! Happy new year 2023
@soundrogue4472
@soundrogue4472 Жыл бұрын
Man I remember making portal 2 puzzles; my portal-less puzzles (only two) really puzzle making is tough.
@Seth_M-T
@Seth_M-T Жыл бұрын
It was only a matter of time until you dedicated a video to a series of maps made by Mevious!
@NorthVex
@NorthVex Жыл бұрын
i have played these puzzles and i loved them. Its original and its really good
@Adriethyl
@Adriethyl Жыл бұрын
On the other side of the spectrum, I wonder what a Portal 2 chamber would look like if it not only had lasers but also energy pellets.
@SonicMaster519
@SonicMaster519 Жыл бұрын
Look no further than BEEMod2.4!
@elytron6758
@elytron6758 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the great coverage, Mike!
@JitenderKumar-tn8dd
@JitenderKumar-tn8dd Жыл бұрын
please never stop making these videos
@loctite417
@loctite417 Жыл бұрын
after playing up to 15 in the no element collectionI noticed that mevious and gig's puzzles have similar patterns. Azorae's and Juggler's puzzles were notably different.
@Vexcenot
@Vexcenot Жыл бұрын
This feels so cursed yet so definitive
@text1016
@text1016 Жыл бұрын
Love your videos Had my birthday yesterday and this is better than some of my presents lol
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
Happy Birthday! (although a day late haha)
@text1016
@text1016 Жыл бұрын
@@Mikeastro Thank you
@zeratax
@zeratax Жыл бұрын
love your videos so much
@ultrio325
@ultrio325 Жыл бұрын
Now imagine if all these tricks were added into normal puzzles.
@LaughingThesaurus
@LaughingThesaurus Жыл бұрын
This is very cool and elegant, as something of a game design enthusiast, but I wanted to pose something for people who might think that elements are absolutely unnecessary-- Elements in the base game's puzzles probably exist to highlight solutions a bit more clearly-- Each puzzle is going to be another new way to use a hard light bridge, or excursion funnel, or so on. It sort of automatically conveys to the player what the expectation is. That, and course elements just look flashy, and can keep people who may not be dedicated puzzle gamers involved in progressing the game. Puzzles without elements ARE very cool, but probably don't suit a campaign experience quite as well for those reasons. There's a use for everything!
@dlopez8104
@dlopez8104 Жыл бұрын
I remember a lot of Portal 1's puzzles were momentum focused
@Lets_go_lesbians
@Lets_go_lesbians Жыл бұрын
Music is really sick 😌
@citizen1715
@citizen1715 Жыл бұрын
truly thinking with portals
@milliondollarmistake
@milliondollarmistake Жыл бұрын
You should make a video going over turrets. I just think they're neat.
@fridaykitty
@fridaykitty Жыл бұрын
I actually found these maps on the workshop while looking through Mevious' submissions, so I subscribed to the whole set thinking to myself, "This is gonna be so easy. I'll get to breeze through level after level soaring around like an eagle (piloting a blimp)..." I ate those words on a plate once I had to look up a walkthrough for stage 6. I really overestimate my problem solving skills haha 4:10 that level actually taught me that strategy, and I love using it ever since. It's so nice putting a portal exactly where you wanna fling out, instead of blindly shooting the general area. I don't know how I never thought of doing that before, and just the other day I was screaming at the screen when the guys from Deadwater didn't use that strategy to get into the vent in that old Russian Portal fangame they played recently lol
@RachelWolfe
@RachelWolfe Жыл бұрын
Please consider adding captions! This is very interesting but I can't understand you very easily 💜
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
You could consider using youtube's automatically generated subtitles; I think it has litte trouble understanding me :]
@SonicMaster519
@SonicMaster519 Жыл бұрын
@@Mikeastro Kinda. There are plenty of errors but I suppose it works.
@Drapperbat
@Drapperbat Жыл бұрын
Hey Mike I’m curious what you think about co-op maps? I’ve been designing a lot of maps and so far I’m really into designing co-op maps but no one ever seems to talk about them
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
Great question! Perhaps I should make a video about them some day. I'm personally not a co-op expert but I do know that they can be devilishly difficult even with very simple setups
@schniemand
@schniemand Жыл бұрын
I love all of these except Coprime. I absolutely despise Coprime and if it manifested itself as a conscious being I'd stab it 500 times
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
D:
@klaus.sfc01official30
@klaus.sfc01official30 Жыл бұрын
You know from your video i got the idea to host my own No Elements competition out of fun and i swear i will rate it before 2025
@STANNco
@STANNco Жыл бұрын
I'm wondering if there are great puzzles featuring no portals, or atleast no portal gun. Thinking about how to start a campaign, with no portal gun initially
@solutionchanneliguess2899
@solutionchanneliguess2899 Жыл бұрын
They certainly exist, though they're rare! A few that I can think of that you can see on the workshop include Oblivious Owl's "Circulatory" and Dolphiner's "Sky High"
@nobodyno-one143
@nobodyno-one143 Жыл бұрын
There are also some very nice easier ones by Fumbly Bumbly, such as "Bullet," "Machine," "String," "Red Light Runner," and "Self-Dissipation," of which the last one is my favorite.
@peperoni_pepino
@peperoni_pepino Жыл бұрын
Hé, die stem klinkt bekend, en ik zie nu de naam van je account en die herken ik inderdaad ook. We hebben elkaar volgens mij sinds 2016 niet gezien, als ik het me goed herinner was de laatste keer dat we spraken bij de KHMW Aanmoedigingsprijzen. Grappig dat je nu een vrij succesvol KZbin kanaal hebt! Groetjes, Pepijn
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
Jeetje, dat is inderdaad een tijd geleden. Hopelijk gaat het je goed; doe je nog steeds iets met wiskunde? Het is grappig hoe je soms wegen inslaat die je nooit zou verwachten, zoals dit youtubekanaal bewijst haha
@peperoni_pepino
@peperoni_pepino Жыл бұрын
@@Mikeastro Ja, het gaat goed met me. Ik heb een kleine bocht gemaakt van meetkunde naar theoretische natuurkunde, en ben nu net deze zomer begonnen aan een PhD in de VS. Hoe gaat het met jou?
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
Ah lachen; gefeliciteerd met je PhD positie! Ik promoveer nu aan de Universiteit Leiden en doe wat getaltheorie en aanverwante zaken, dus ik heb eigenlijk weinig te klagen
@klaus.sfc01official30
@klaus.sfc01official30 Жыл бұрын
5:20 Pacman music?
@vens1337
@vens1337 Жыл бұрын
Self therapy blogpost, ignore me, I just wanted to think outloud (so to speak). Sadly, I think this video made me realize I actually hate solving puzzles. I tried out the maps for myself and realized I don't enjoy any of the puzzle aspect of it at all, but instead took enjoyment in just moving around in the air and such. In terms of a mentally challenging task, they were indeed interesting, but I've come to terms with myself that I actually don't like thinking of some complex solution to a problem. In fact, the only enjoyment I've gotten from community chambers in general has been when I beat them in ways they aren't intended for (with air strafing, bug abuse, and bhopping). It would also make sense with how all my of my own chambers are incredibly simple and make use of easy momentum sections, or depend on the execution of an obscure bug (such as the excursion funnel flying glitch) or air strafing from a high but short distance aerial plates, or bhopping off of a stair to jump a large gap. Thank you for this video, seriously, I think I can quit playing Portal 2 now.
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
Sorry to hear that, but it's true, puzzles are not for everyone! I'm happy to have been a help in your process of finding that out
@TinyDeskEngineer
@TinyDeskEngineer Жыл бұрын
I can't even make a good puzzle _normally,_ how do people do things like this?
@solutionchanneliguess2899
@solutionchanneliguess2899 Жыл бұрын
Though making a solid No Elements puzzle still isn't easy, I found that it was actually more approachable when starting out! No elements to be confused by - just exploring the interactions of a few surfaces and seeing what happens. Might be worth a try!
@the_infinity_
@the_infinity_ 7 ай бұрын
as a hammer mapper I got very confused when you said 5 units of speed because I thought you meant hammer units for a second witch is 128 times smaller than an editor unit
@Pnezyx2056
@Pnezyx2056 Жыл бұрын
nice video, but when can we figure out negative testing elements?
@dr.blockcraft6633
@dr.blockcraft6633 Жыл бұрын
Since No elements, Aka zero Elements, uses A portal Gun, extending That, A Negative element Puzzle would Take the Gun away From you
@ctddied1637
@ctddied1637 Жыл бұрын
sometimes,you just need little less elements.
@glorgy.
@glorgy. Жыл бұрын
They're called puzzles because they make you puzzled. 😎
@CrispyMendowan
@CrispyMendowan Жыл бұрын
the problem with most no element map they require timing and (most of the time) precise portal placement. precise portal placement in on itself is not a problem, the problem is portal is kinda janky when it comes to matching the crosshair and where the portal is being placed. for example in no element 10 : espouse, in a jump between 2 angled surface more often than not the portal will land in anywhere but where you aim your crosshair. the timing and precise portal placement also adds additional challenge to the maps, which could be both a bad thing and a good thing depending on your preference, but for me the essential aspect of portal puzzle is figuring out how to do it rather than trying to execute it.
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
Valid concerns, but I don't think they typically require very precise portal placement. An angled panel comes with a placement helper, a "portal magnet" so to speak, so the portal should always be put in the exact same spot without any additional effort from the player. These placements are precisely so that certain flings work out perfectly when done with the correct amount of speed. I do fully agree with your final statement though; the solving process should never be overshadowed by the mere execution of the solution!
@username5155
@username5155 10 ай бұрын
Now we’re finally thinking with portals.
@bastian_5975
@bastian_5975 Жыл бұрын
I love the idea of these maps, but holy hell can they be torturous to complete sometimes just because of how long it can take to retry a puzzle if you fail it. I get the whole point is to not use any elements, but the overall experience would be improved immensely if some were added that just made retrying faster without effecting the logic (ie, a button to reveal a staircase, replacing most staircases with aerial faith plates, coating some surfaces with speed gel, etc.) The puzzles are functional without the elements, but in most of them I end up toggling noclip on and off throughout just to make it so that failing doesn't mean I have to do the entire god damn puzzle over again or take 30 seconds per attempt walking from point A to point B when I have no clue what I'm doing. The momentum based nature of these puzzles is already very conducive to having to restart a whole section just because you failed one thing, so having that frustration compounded further by having to walk all the way back to the start on top of that often robs a lot of the satisfaction of completing the maps.
@FluxLemniskat
@FluxLemniskat Жыл бұрын
I don't think that toggled stairs etc. would be faster than noclip etc. I recommened to use f6/f7 to restore puzzle states, as well as key bindings for noclip, host_timescale 2.0 (or other values) and so on. All that can drastically reduce the needed time to recover. :)
@bastian_5975
@bastian_5975 Жыл бұрын
@@FluxLemniskat the point is I shouldn't have to use noclip
@ldidok
@ldidok Жыл бұрын
@@bastian_5975 There are puzzles that involve plenty of clever moves and sequences with the sole goal of achieving something such as getting your portals in a specific location. Accidentaly shoot the wrong portal, and you're 50 moves back. In a well designed puzzle, where differences between states are so subtle, it's impossible not to be tremendously punished by making a small mistake (execution or logical). If reaching an area gives you a permanent button as a checkpoint, then the subtlety is gone, and progress is obvious.
@bastian_5975
@bastian_5975 Жыл бұрын
@@ldidoksorry if this is rambly, I'm pretty tired, but I also know that I will forget half of what I have to say by tomorrow. it is still a good idea to try as hard as possible to minimize the cost of failure because of how much of puzzle solving is just seeing if something can work out in a specific way. With good puzzle design, there will be specific moment(s) where something clicks in your head, allowing you to understand what you have to do, and if you aren't allowed to experiment without losing all of your progress/having to take 30 seconds to try again, it can feel like trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle without being able to touch any pieces that won't immediately connect to what you already have solved. In some cases nothing can really be done, but in almost every single map I got frustrated at losing progress, there was something that could have been done to lessen either the progress that was lost or otherwise decrease the time it takes to try again. Usually that thing would just be aerial faith plates scattered about to make it so that you could move around the pieces of geometry placed to block your shot while you were flinging so that you didn't have to walk everywhere (or coating certain walkways in propulsion gel), or a button that will open up a path (either directly or by activating some check to see if your portals are in the right place) to allow you to get back to where you are without having to do everything again or re-place your portal where it should be at the start of a section. Granted, a large part of my frustration has been alleviated by the existence of quick saving, which I didn't know about because I assumed that the lack of an option to save from the menu and lack of any mention of any option to save in community test levels, but I still think levels should be designed as if they didn't exist so that you're not training people to be overly reliant on them, on top of the fact that if something can be done just as conveniently in an immersive way, it will usually feel better.
@ldidok
@ldidok Жыл бұрын
@@bastian_5975 what you're describing reads more as a linear progression map rather than a puzzle. When you say "people should try to make it less punishable", it's not that I don't think creators should put more care in their puzzles; it's just that a well designed puzzle and no-punishment experimentation doesn't get along. If the puzzle state that you're at looks the exact same than 50 moves ago but with portals in another place, you WILL get punished if you shoot the wrong portal. No way around that. There's beauty on the subtleness of the puzzle state. The map "nemesis" is a very good example of that.
@chrissvectorisntreal
@chrissvectorisntreal Жыл бұрын
Your voice remids me of Zero Punctuation.
@martinp1054
@martinp1054 8 ай бұрын
It's easy to uderstand why those maps are hard.... it's hard to understand (at least for me) what people enjoy about them
@NoNameAtAll2
@NoNameAtAll2 Жыл бұрын
are there no elements coop maps?
@Mikeastro
@Mikeastro Жыл бұрын
Fantastic question! I personally don't know of (m)any, but don't immediately see a reason why such maps shouldn't exist. Maybe you discovered a completely unexplored type of Portal 2 puzzles...?
@solutionchanneliguess2899
@solutionchanneliguess2899 Жыл бұрын
They are certainly rare, though I know there's at least one in the No Elements: Expanded collection in the description of the video. (I have not played it, however)
@JamesTDG
@JamesTDG Жыл бұрын
I wonder if there are any portal 2 maps designed around commonly known bugs like the crouch fly...
@CaptainAwsome
@CaptainAwsome Жыл бұрын
5:44 i just did the walk through the portal before it moves trick here lol
@justanidiot3
@justanidiot3 Жыл бұрын
you sound slightly like the lambdageneration guy
@smitty7510
@smitty7510 Жыл бұрын
No elements?
@andreslefttesticle
@andreslefttesticle 7 ай бұрын
"weeeeeeeeee" - glados
@cosmogd5650
@cosmogd5650 Жыл бұрын
I stuck at Coprime Remake =/
@solutionchanneliguess2899
@solutionchanneliguess2899 Жыл бұрын
It's certainly a tricky puzzle! I found that some tricks I learned from playing through the original No Elements collection were very helpful.
@rhyanvalk7897
@rhyanvalk7897 Жыл бұрын
9:41 bunny hop xd
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
Corrupted moderator
@TS_Mind_Swept
@TS_Mind_Swept Жыл бұрын
I mean.. momentum is still sort of a testing element.. as are portals, really.. So these levels aren't quite 100% naked :p
@dadutchboy2
@dadutchboy2 Жыл бұрын
Engineer gaming
@Galacticalbug
@Galacticalbug Жыл бұрын
Who else started singing at 6:08
@youerror982
@youerror982 Жыл бұрын
way cube
@youerror982
@youerror982 Жыл бұрын
me
@modifiedapple5522
@modifiedapple5522 Жыл бұрын
Doors are an element, challenge failed
@rbxster
@rbxster Жыл бұрын
its called no prop/entity maps
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
Corrupted moderatorCorrupted moderator
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
v
@liamd3484
@liamd3484 Жыл бұрын
8:48 that is the worst fucking steam bio I have ever read
@spectrum9514
@spectrum9514 Жыл бұрын
Someone clearly hasn't seen the people who put slurs in their bios
@reo101
@reo101 Жыл бұрын
first
@ctddied1637
@ctddied1637 Жыл бұрын
ok boomer
@CoolDudeClem
@CoolDudeClem Жыл бұрын
I never liked these kind of maps. I mean no disrespect to anyone who makes them, they're just not my thing. I prefer maps that have lots of "elements".
@efari
@efari Жыл бұрын
disliked because of motion blur.
@ikelip3380
@ikelip3380 Жыл бұрын
The Waffle House has found its new host
@26dollar
@26dollar Жыл бұрын
Te WaffHoushas founditsnew hodt
@1Chitus
@1Chitus Жыл бұрын
One problem with these (and probably the reason the “official” campaigns didn’t do similar) is that it requires high reaction speed and sometimes long reset times, which lowers the accessibility a bit.
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
Corrupted moderator
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
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@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
Corrupted moderator
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
Corrupted moderator
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
Corrupted moderator
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
Corrupted moderator
@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
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@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
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@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
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@user-ly6bm7vo1p
@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
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@user-ly6bm7vo1p Жыл бұрын
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