How can we make air conditioners 33% more efficient? Here's a revolutionary solution.

Energy consumption for heating and cooling is expected to triple in the next thirty years, as populations grow, and more people move into cities. A lot of that energy demand is used in compressing and pumping fluids. Now a market disrupting technology has been launched that increases compression speed by 38% while using 33% less electricity. Multiply that by billions of units and you get a pretty helpful contribution to reducing greenhouse gas emissions!
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[@JustHaveaThink]

SCROLL COMPRESSORS AND EFFICIENCIES Hi folks, In light of the various questions about efficiencies and alternative technologies like scroll compressors, here’s some additional commentary from the Chief Technical Officer at Magtor. "Reciprocating compressors can claim to be about 90% efficient. But there is a trick. This is the efficiency of the compression chamber/piston/valves system, or the “application side” , not the “full” compressor system. In other words that’s the efficiency of the compressor without the motor. Though misleading, this makes sense as it is the efficiency of the thermodynamics of compression. By compressing a gas you change its enthalpy (a mix of internal energy and pressure x volume characteristics). Then the “efficiency” generally links the varying gas enthalpies between suction and discharge conditions to the ideal, theoretical enthalpy variation occurring during an isentropic (adiabatic) process (times mass flow to work with powers). The differences being due to friction and the power that is lost for opening and closing the valves. Furthermore, the efficiency varies with the type of medium that is compressed, the compression ratio (max/min absolute pressure) or the intake temperatures. So, it is at best the efficiency from linear mechanical power to compressed medium, not the efficiency from the electrical power fed to the rotary motor (before the crankshaft). One can refer to following links on the Internet: - Basic thermodynamics of reciprocating compression / 45th Turbomachinery & 32nd Pump symposia / Houston, Texas - 2016: core.ac.uk/download/pdf/79655545.pdf - How to estimate compressor efficiency? www.jmcampbell.com/tip-of-the-month/2015/07/how-to-estimate-compressor-efficiency/ SCROLL COMPRESSORS: There are many types of compressors in use, and the industry somewhat specialises within particular technologies based on the power requirements, type of applications, manufacturing costs, end product costs, etc. Regarding efficiency of scroll vs reciprocating compressors, not all sources agree but the trend is that scroll compressors are at least slightly more efficient, based on operating conditions. There is an interesting white paper from Schneider Electric, “The different types of cooling compressors” that you can read here download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_Doc_Ref=SPD_VAVR-AE7T7G_EN And a second research paper called “Comparison of hermetic scroll and reciprocating compressors operating under varying refrigerant charge and load” that you can read here docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2517&context=icec Here again, the efficiency that is being referred to is the thermodynamic efficiency as mentioned in the previous point.

[@takeastandorbeenslavedby-left]

CO2 emissions are not a problem. For a smart guy you are very stupid.

[@crackedemerald4930]

Thanks for your contribution Take a stand or be enslaved by the left.

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

It's not clear to me if the magtor is a piston compressor but if it is, how has magtor addressed the losses that result from the re-expansion of gas as the piston begins it's decompression stroke? This is where scroll compressor design doesn't suffer losses due to the gas isn't re-expanding inside the compression stage? I do agree this design appears have lower mechanical friction losses than say, a scroll or especially reciprocating design, which to me makes it attractive and explains why other companies have developed quite similar compressors they call linear compressors.

[@TezlaFan]

Interesting

[@fjalics]

I have a Carrier 42 SEER mini split. My whole house unit is only 13 SEER. I don't know how they do it, but that is more than 3 times as efficient.

[@chrisk3739]

Going to have to call B.S. on this one. Rotory compressors are simply not that inefficient. This Magtor design will have efficiency advantages over a traditional motor-driven piston and crankshaft design, but 33% would likely only be over the absolute worst performers of single-piston pumps. Additionally, piston compressors are only a fraction of those in service. The other designs (scroll, screw, rotary vane, and centrifugal) operate on a continuous or near continuous flow design and would likely still outperform the Magtor pump. I suspect too that the Magtor would have trouble with variable speed operation, which is necessary for demand matching and maximizing efficiency. It will be “tuned” for line frequency, which means more energy needed to accelerate the piston at different speeds and non-optimum stroke lengths unless using an advanced position control on the piston.

[@larsboelen]

Thanks for the clarification, I was triggered by “30% faster using 30% less energy”, why not just state the efficiency?

[@jimgill5706]

I agree.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Response from Magtor CTO : There are many types of compressor in use and the industry somewhat specialises within particular technologies based on the power requirements, type of applications, manufacturing costs, end product costs, etc. Regarding efficiency of scroll vs reciprocating compressors, not all sources agree but the trend is that scroll compressors are at least slightly more efficient, based on operating conditions… There is this interesting white paper from Schneider Electric, “The different types of cooling compressors” download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_Doc_Ref=SPD_VAVR-AE7T7G_EN and I also found this study: “Comparison of hermetic scroll and reciprocating compressors operating under varying refrigerant charge and load” at docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2517&context=icec

[@THLGargamont]

Good point about speed modulation. Many comfort cooling compressors have seen the addition of variable frequency drives in order to ramp down the compressor under low-load conditions.

[@chrisk3739]

Looking at Magtor’s website, their Magtopressor was compared with other reciprocating compressors in the 100 to 300 Watt range. This is a tiny compressor compared to anything used for air conditioning. I’m not surprised to see huge efficiency gains there. Most pumps that small aren’t designed for peak efficiency as the cost to operate is so small. The friction losses in relation to useful work will be much greater as well just because of the physics of scaling these things up. I can see Magtor’s product being useful for small, critical cooling applications in developing areas as it should be affordable to manufacture and low maintenance. The marketing here makes it seem like a climate game changer. However it really just distracts from more important energy reduction techniques - e.g., better thermal envelope design for buildings and energy management techniques that better support renewables.

[@jrb_sland5066]

High inrush current was once a big nuisance, but most modern compressors have more modest inrush conditions at startup. Many HVAC systems run continuously, although at variable speeds, so again the inrush issue is a non-event.

[@williamcooper9753]

Yes, even the old ones had unloaded that allowed it to get up to speed before making it work. Strange he would make this point. The whole thing appears to be a marketing play. Disappointing.

[@chakawoowoo]

Yeah brother I got one. LG dual inverter that runs continuously at whatever power level is optimal. Saved me hundreds of dollars in just a few months of operation

[@KyleDunnIt]

Inrush is also inherent to motor windings... The magnetic field must be established before steady state operation is possible.

[@dpt4402]

Seems to be a promo to find naïve investors In 1748 while in Glasgow, William Cullen invented the basis for modern refrigeration. Scroll and rotary compressor have replaced reciprocating decades ago as the dominant design in the market. These designs are direct drive. In a reciprocation cycle with one cylinder it is true the 180 degrees is the compression cycle the other 180 degrees is not wasted but pulling in the vapor. Very common to have more than one cylinder taking advantage of the rotation. As with all these designs they are positive displacement vapor pumps, scroll compressor designs have proven themselves to have few moving parts, excellent seal design between low and high pressure vapor areas along with high efficient motors. The Achilles heel of reciprocating is more so with valve sealing than the weighted crank that carries inertia

[@chrisvinden9446]

I suspect a lot of BS in the 33% figure. Linear compressors are not new. They were patented almost 100 years ago. LG has manufactured linear compressors very similar to this in their refrigeration units for several years and have had major reliability issues. In the industrial sector, centrifugal compressors with magnetic levitated oil free bearings , a completely different technology than this, with no reciprocation or vibration , have improved efficiency significantly. Hopefully they can be downscaled for residential use.

[@ms767210]

I was thinking my lg fridge which I've had for 3 years already has a linear compressor. It is very efficient with it's inverter control as well. Hopefully I don't see any reliability problems with it as you said but they confidently give 10 years warranty on the compressor.

[@LeoGitarzysta]

I was about to write the same thing. That's great prior art to invalidate those patents in court ;-]

[@erichaynes7502]

Exactly, there's NO WAY there's close to 33% more efficiency, nor reliability.

[@cruzctrl2]

Same here, this looks just like a LG linear compressor.

[@thisisyourcaptainspeaking2259]

@@ms767210 Mostly the first year or two were unreliable, they found the problem and improved it. Not sure how well they improved it but they certainly were aware and have done something. The reed valves were weak and wore through after some number of years, this should be an easy fix for LG.

[@kevinmills5293]

That compressor looks like a vibration machine to me. Modern ASHP’s use scroll compressors with soft start and are more efficient.

[@drewcipher896]

My refrigerator does a very loud dance anytime there is a short blackout and the compressor tries to start back up under pressure, would a scroll compressor have an easier time?

[@slkgeothermal]

@@drewcipher896 There is a very good chance you have a scroll or rotary compressor operating in your frig already. The difficulty in starting a compressor after a voltage drop out is due to refrigerant pressure imbalance. It takes time for the high pressure refrigerant to pass through the metering device (usually a capillary tube, because it is low cost) and reach an equilibrium. The compressor starts easiest when it has no load and for a compressor or pump that is when the pressure is the same on the inlet and the outlet.

[@kevinmills5293]

@@drewcipher896 I think starting under pressure problem is more motor related than compressor type. Most modern refrigerators have a delay at start up to allow any pressure to dissipate.

[@xandi3555]

Its indeed exactly the same princible that Nicola Tesla invented 100 years ago and was known as "Earthquake Machine"

[@salec7592]

The device should be twinned and coaxial, the two subassemblies working in lockstep in opposite directions, sharing the load as ideally as possible, so that resultant acceleration is nearly zero.

[@EdWilliamsPDX]

Most residential (and many commercial) AC units, refrigerators, heat pump and such use scroll compressors. Yes, they have a startup in rush, but I'd be interested in seeing efficiency of this tech versus current scroll compressors.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Response from Magtor CTO : There are many types of compressor in use and the industry somewhat specialises within particular technologies based on the power requirements, type of applications, manufacturing costs, end product costs, etc. Regarding efficiency of scroll vs reciprocating compressors, not all sources agree but the trend is that scroll compressors are at least slightly more efficient, based on operating conditions… There is this interesting white paper from Schneider Electric, “The different types of cooling compressors” download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_Doc_Ref=SPD_VAVR-AE7T7G_EN and I also found this study: “Comparison of hermetic scroll and reciprocating compressors operating under varying refrigerant charge and load” at docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2517&context=icec

[@ender-gaming]

@@JustHaveaThink If this Magtor compressor doesn't surpass the efficiency of scroll compressors for refrigerants then this new technology isn't likely will simply have to compete on cost, possibly reduce maintenance. However, if its efficiency is lower but it is the cheaper solution this its unlikely to have a positive impact for the environment. Either way it seems from this video they're focus is regarding efficiency and attempting to replace rotary compressors, but it seems their targeted market might not be viable.

[@mihaiachim5299]

you can prevent the startup in rush current with an inverter or a motor soft-start device

[@nickdannunzio7683]

Energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another... electrical to mechanical in this device... show me a run cycle with an amp-probe... which was conveniently left out of this demonstration...

[@OIE82]

@@mihaiachim5299 you absolutely correct. But then you the added cost and complexity of the soft start. In a cost conscience buying public. I may be wrong but my perception is that most people trade short term savings for long-term.

[@gordonlawrence1448]

This sounds completely wrong to me (a design engineer in the electronics industry) as electric motors and switchgear were the main losses 30 years ago with crappy single phase motors and very poor PWM control. Compared to that I can believe a 30% saving. However with 3 phase brushless motors and good quality PWM with soft start the efficiency is way higher and the inrush current issue is gone. Plus when was the last time AC used piston pumps? I have never seen a piston pump AC. They are all either Tesla pumps or scroll compressors. Also the tech for an air compressor for air tools is completely different tech to the compressors for AC. For example air tools have a resevoir up to 10 bar+ and are shifting up to .25 cubic feet per second at that pressure for a small off the shelf type. Ammonia based refrigerant runs at more like 4 bar and 0.1 cuft/s. Bit of a difference dont ya think???????

[@chrisdodt]

true that. but the intent of this vid wasn't to school us on an innovative technology but to continue this absurd scare that climate change means the end of humankind.

[@acmefixer1]

@@chrisdodt Nobody is listening to the climate change deniers; they see the truth for themselves how the wildfires and floods in Europe and China are adversely affecting people. Go find another place where people care about your lies.

[@chrisdodt]

@@acmefixer1 thanks, Acne, for proving my point. Your delusion is noted.

[@gelisob]

@@chrisdodt would you also advocate for men who beat their wives? One can live like this, sure, it's not the end of life. Is that a good argument to live in constant suffering? Because thats what is happening, more and more people will suffer. But you want to brush it off - doesnt mean the end of humankind so, dont make a big deal out of it? Very self centric, but thats common ofc.

[@milutzuk]

@@chrisdodt That's an ad hominem argument. Are you sure this is the way you usually think? Look, I'm a physicist, but my area of expertise doesn't include climatology. Nevertheless, I'm equipped to understand how difficult is for those guys to make an accurate model of the weather. And while I don't have answers, I still have questions. The greenhouse effect is real and you can measure it by yourself, you don't have to believe other people. The decrease of Earth's albedo is again real (polar caps melting). On the other hand, the current solar cycle, 25, is below average. Now, you do understand that there is an energy budget, how much the Earth is receiving, how much is reflecting back into the space, and how much is retained. Well, the conditions above don't speak well for the future, the energy retained will continue to increase and that energy will have to manifest somehow. How much is that excess energy we're talking about? Think about all nukes going off at the same time. They will not increase the Earth's average temperature by 1°C. So, unless you know some means to absorb that energy by wishes, goodwill, or magic, I'm open to any logical argument you have to correct my opinion. Using logical fallacies to prove your point will not work. BTW, I live in the EU.

[@unclenety5834]

Electrician here, stumbled upon your channel schemeing up ways to improve my own A/C's efficiency. 1) subbed 2) immediately after your intro my mind jumped to the motor. If you think of about any applicance in your house that uses large amounts of power it has a motor! (Or a heater, but that's an entirely different discussion, waste energy to produce heat yadda yadda)

[@LordDecapo]

One thing that confused me... is most AC systems I have done work on, are Scroll compressors... not piston based. Scroll compressors have a near 100% duty cycle as well, just like this solenoid solution. I may very well be wrong, but I'm not sure how this could THAT much more efficient than a Scroll compressor... sounds like marketing magic to me.

[@kathryncasey4114]

I was wondering about scroll compressors too. I have no expertise. I liked the video for it's new motor but couldn't get interested in the comparison. I have always been a little leery of this channel. This is another reason for me not to trust anything I hear. It does give me something to look into. I like that.

[@kantanlabs3859]

Indeed this video is a joke, see my comment in the main stream.

[@donlourie769]

I have had a scroll compressor AC unit for 30 years with no repairs. That is a very dependable and efficient motor.

[@andriikyslenko7895]

Preach brother. Was thinking about the same thing.

[@janami-dharmam]

@@donlourie769 these are for central units; window units (1T to 1.5T) are still using the old piston type compressors and they are very unreliable.

[@ReigBonjux]

33% in a heat machine sounds like magic. Lets see where it goes in practice but looks promising

[@janami-dharmam]

If it is too good to believe then it is very likely a magic.

[@bdf2718]

I too am skeptical of emerging technologies, some of which turn out to be impractical, or even downright scams. However, this one isn't claiming to improve the efficiency of the thermodynamic cycle (a few percent on that might be possible but 33% is not). It claims to improve the efficiency of creating reciprocating motion from an electrically-powered motor. That might be achievable.

[@ReigBonjux]

@@bdf2718 Yes I agree with that.

[@robertkattner1997]

It's a play on numbers. If a unit is 20% efficient than a 27% unit is 33% more efficient. 33% is not that much.

[@wiscgaloot]

yep, I've taken a lot of thermodynamics and even taught it, and I don't believe it at all.

[@wirelesmike73]

Reduced friction means they can operate more safely for longer periods without the risk of overheating or fire. Amazing design. It's a shame they won't be selling the pump on the consumer market. There are lots of areas where such a pump would make things better across the board and I would love to see what DIY engeneeres and makers around the world would be able to come up with if they had access to such a game-changing piece of equipment.

[@zpettigrew]

I've built similar/comparable models myself. They're device does have higher efficiency than what I've tinkered with and tested. Good for them! Glad they have. Great video.

[@E9Project]

As an appliance repairman I cant wait to see how loud these can get.

[@titter3648]

It looks like a vibration nightmare. With no counterweight in the animations.

[@E9Project]

@@titter3648 and im sure they will use only the highest quality springs that will last forever XD

[@jonathanberry1111]

@@titter3648 No reason they couldn't have 2 of them running in opposition, at least that is the vibration taken care of, cancelled. Noise not so easy.

[@kantanlabs3859]

The efficiency of cooling systems or heat pumps are mainly dependent on the temperature difference between heat source and heat sink. The compressor only accounts for a fraction of the COP (Coefficient of Performance) of a given system. Many common compressors have efficiencies well above 85%. Many systems are quite close to the maximum thermodynamic limit. Only small high-cost improvements are only possible. Besides, in a century old world-wide developed field, when someone claims for a huge improvement it is usually a hoax or an unverified commercial figure.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

This is what I often have to explain to Tesla Fanboys who think Elon is going to revolutionize HVAC.

[@Iceblade423]

Maybe they are claiming this is 33% more efficient than crankshaft compressors. Not lying directly; just leaving out that no modern system used such an old compressor design.

[@janami-dharmam]

If a machine is already 80% efficient and you make it 85% then you claim that you have achieved a 25% improvement. Here I notice that they put the condenser out on the roof or on the wall. The condenser unit should be placed in a cool place (near the parking lot in the basement). That itself can get you 3-4% increase in savings.

[@oscargr_]

That's not intuitive to me. What's your definition of efficiency there?

[@hans-joachimbierwirth4727]

@@oscargr_ Comparison of consumption, not of efficiency.

[@iemozzomei]

Just wanted to drop by the comments to say thanks. A lot of the stuff I used to read up on kind of fell by the wayside, and your videos has honestly replaced that gap becoming a pretty great part of my week. Added bonus, the list of interesting companies I can consider applying to for an internship continues to increase as well haha. So well, yeah, thanks from the bottom of my heart, keep up the great work!

[@mikes2381]

I came here, like many others apparently, to point out the issue with efficiency versus the common scroll compressor which is used in most air conditioners. Residential and commercial air conditioners tend to use single digit horsepower scroll compressors and even multiples of them for multi-stage cooling AC units. The scroll compressor is much more efficient than the reciprocating compressor. This Magtor motor, is also reciprocating. It has to completely stop and reverse the weight if the piston assembly 50 or 60 times per second and it has to do it using direct power instead of letting momentum and bearings swing it around. Note how much that poor thing shakes itself when it runs. Seems like a noise maker. But anyway, if they're targeting the whole home or business A/C market, they may be in for an uphill battle driving a 500cc car towing a 40' boat. But if they can offer 30% less energy used for the same cooling in your refrigerator or chest freezer, that is likely a good market to target. If their pump costs can even come close to competing with hermetic reciprocating compressors under 1 HP, they will probably take all the home and commercial refrigerator market by storm. Your fridge uses anywhere from 2-30 A for about 1.5 seconds to start and then draws less than an amp - 3 A to continue running depending on size and efficiency. Commercial refrigerators pull about the same. Just a few (single digit) amps to keep running. If they could corner that market, they're in for a treat. If they left all the >1 HP systems to other, more efficient motor designs, they're still probably have 80% of the market. If that's the case, Techumseh, Copeland, Danfoss, and the handful of other compressor mfgs should invest in this tech ASAP. BTW the whole building AC systems often use semi-hermetic reciprocating piston pumps or screw compressors or similar. The semi-hermetic pump is 1 or more pistons usually in a single, twin or V configuration. So, yes there are V6 AC pumps. They are completely rebuildable or entirely replaceable and generally last for a very long time. Their efficiency probably isn't great compared to others but they are common workhorses.

[@deansmits006]

My fridge is quite loud when it's active.... Likely just due to a loose metal shroud rather than the pump itself. If this type of pump makes it worse....oh man, that would annoy hell out of me! Joking aside, any energy reducing measure we can make we should make. Changing over to a carbon free power generating world is going to take too much time, and I can only see energy use reduction as being vital to making it happen more quickly

[@crazysquirrel9425]

You put two in series at opposite strokes (in stroke on both, out stroke on both). Vibration should be nearly eliminated if balanced correctly.

[@mikes2381]

@@deansmits006 Every possible step in the right direction, no matter how big or small, is a step that we should take today. Take our wins wherever we can get them, no matter if they're big or small. A win is still a win.

[@bruinjim1]

33% more efficient than what? If the entire selling point is that it's better at rotary to linear conversion then why not use a compressor that doesn't use a piston? Like scroll or swing compressor. I'm fairly certain the new motor isn't as efficient than that, especially when combined with a good high efficient motor. And that doesn't even touch the largest problem, the noise and vibration. A motor like that will have a good deal of weight moving back and forth. That much vibration can easily destroy any long-term device. When I read your headline, I thought the video would discuss an innovative magnetic cooling device. That line of research shows a potential for greater efficiency. It's based on the magnetocaloric effect.

[@oscargr_]

Totally agree with the noise factor. At least as far as the diagrams and the working model shown goes, these are vibration pumps. They're hella noisy (and all that noise is energy loss)

[@JustHaveaThink]

Response from Magtor CTO : There are many types of compressor in use and the industry somewhat specialises within particular technologies based on the power requirements, type of applications, manufacturing costs, end product costs, etc. Regarding efficiency of scroll vs reciprocating compressors, not all sources agree but the trend is that scroll compressors are at least slightly more efficient, based on operating conditions… There is this interesting white paper from Schneider Electric, “The different types of cooling compressors” download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_Doc_Ref=SPD_VAVR-AE7T7G_EN and I also found this study: “Comparison of hermetic scroll and reciprocating compressors operating under varying refrigerant charge and load” at docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2517&context=icec

[@bruinjim1]

@@JustHaveaThink I used a simpler approach. I just searched for the most efficient HVAC units. They all used a scroll or swing compressor. I agree that a scroll should be slightly more efficient. But the claim that this new oscillating motor technology increases overall AC efficiency is fundamentally flawed. It is perhaps more efficient than a piston powered compressor, but piston compressors are not the most efficient method. If you compare this new method with the most efficient AC units then I doubt there will be any practical increase in efficiency. There are many more cooling options for homes which have a far greater impact on cooling electricity use. Passive cooling can reduce overall heat which reduces cooling required. A water wall can help equalize the temperature between day and night, further reducing the cooling required. There are materials which reflect visible light but act more like a black body in the infrared or microwave. So the sunlight heats less and existing heat will bleed off faster. Granted they aren't very ideal, but every bit helps. Other simple techniques, such as blocking sun facing windows in the summer will also drastically reduce the heat that enters the home. For traditional homes, the most efficient method that I know of is the use of bedrock as a thermal battery, especially in northern climates. You have one hot and one cold battery. In the winter you store cooler temperatures and use the warm battery to heat. In the summer you use the cool battery to cool. The only ongoing costs are the electricity needed to circulate the thermal conducting fluid, like water. The best possibility is an underground house, such as a cave. If it's below twenty eight feet under the surface then it remains at a constant temperature year round. However this approach has its own limitations and problems. Another issue is insulation. If surfaces are well insulated then less heat makes it into the house. In a standard stick framed house, studs conduct heat fairly well so the heat can pass through that way. So timber frame is a good choice since it gets away from all those thermal conductors. You could even go with vacuum insulated panels or make your own with clay aerogel. (You just need a freeze drier to make that.) That also helps the immense heating cost in northern climates. If I lived in a standard house, and wanted to stop AC related power use, I would have the AC running on a dedicated circuit powered by solar panels. Most heat is generated by the sun's light, so powering the cooling with it is pretty effective at keeping the house cool. There are cloudy days that are hot, but in those days a small AC unit in a single room can keep it cool without the expense of cooling the entire house. It seems like a good approach, especially if you combine it with other techniques like passive cooling.

[@jeebus6263]

@@JustHaveaThink sending everyone the same copy/paste reply is not very helpful.

[@neilchristensen6413]

HVAC systems don't get enough attention when it comes to conversations about energy and climate in general. With heat pumps becoming the go to alternative to gas furnaces these days, we need to ensure that our appliances that use the refrigeration have optimal efficiency to get the best bang climate wise. And in cold climates like mine, you will need all the efficiency you can get.

[@garytulie8567]

Could also potentially get good efficiency delivering heat at higher temperatures allowing heat pumps to be much more a direct replacement for gas boilers. Would also be interested to know the effect of adjusting the alternating current frequency, and whether there are advantages in variable speed to match load!

[@pieteri.duplessis]

I agree wholeheartedly.

[@janami-dharmam]

But heating is always 100% efficient. All the heat from the boiler is delivered to your drawing room.

[@neilchristensen6413]

@@janami-dharmam Heat Pumps are more than 100% efficient because they move heat rather than release it using a chemical reaction or resistance. It's using not just the electricity for energy but also the heat from outside the building.

[@janami-dharmam]

@@neilchristensen6413 I need to study more.

[@joepeach997]

I worked at a HVAC business for two years. I was amazed by the technology and the unbelievable amount of parts need to keep things going!

[@silvergreylion]

The temperature 2 meters below ground is always at roughly 5 Celsius, so you could just have 60+ meters of garden hose buried as a heat exchanger, but I rarely see this used in heat pump / AC systems, even though it would increase efficiency greatly.

[@jackdbur]

That would be 25° Celsius and unless your ground is a bog you need hundreds of metres for ground source heat pumping. 2 meters is probably the minimum depth for this. Deeper is better & below the water table is optimal. 50 to 100 metre deep bore holes with a loop of pipe down them seems to work well .

[@Tanstaaflitis]

Just had a geothermal heat pump installed last month. A 3.5 ton (12.25 kW or 42,000 BTUh) equivalent vertical loop required two wells of 320 feet (about 100 meters). I think my contractor used 180 feet of well per ton of cooling power. I'm in a cooling dominant environment. Needless to say, that was expensive and my system is average. The well drilling probably cost more than a low cost single stage, air-source air conditioner and low efficiency gas furnace. I'm in it for the long game and I'm a nerd.

[@RobinI92]

You need a verry deep hole to get sufficent cooling. I work with heatpump and ac in sweden were it it common to have 100-200meters deep holes for the heatpump. But that is offen not enought for cooling just by the licuid in the lines cause even in cold sweden the hole get so warm that you get next to nothing in the way of cooling by the end off summer.. often a simpel minisplit gives bettet cooling and is cheaper even tho the running cost of passive coling is only a circulationspump..

[@joeblogs6598]

The problem with those ground source that i see is; if your constantly dumping heat into the ground from your house, will the ground not just heat up and thus no longer provide any cooling?

[@silvergreylion]

@@joeblogs6598 The heat rises to the surface, and ultimately ends up radiated as thermal infrared light out into space. As long as the amount of heat transferred into the ground is small compared the volume of ground, and that ground has a fairly large surface area, the ground will only increase in temperature by very little. I doubt you can even measure it, except close to the buried hose. The moisture in the ground does make a big difference, as dry, sandy ground is very slow to transfer heat, so in that case, it might not be possible to use for this purpose, except if having the space and resources to lay down several hundred meters of hose.

[@Lfreeman98]

Most domestic & commercial AC systems do not use a reciprocating compressor - normally a rotary scroll compressor is used. It would be interesting to compare the efficiency this new type of compressor against something like the Daikin “swing compressor” which is their improvement on a standard rotary compressor that is claimed to already be more efficient.

[@williamcooper9753]

Reciprocating compressors are common in the commercial end. Large plants use rotating compressors similar to a rotating turbine but compressing the gas instead of expanding it. This little thing might work to pump up some air for my tires but I don’t see much else there.

[@andylane7142]

Sounds like a very powerful speaker to me. As soon as you started describing it it made so much sense and I couldn’t help thinking I can’t believe its taken 100 years to realise a speaker would make a good compressor.

[@Ubya_]

low pressure air pumps already use this concept, but a bit differently, and the pressure they can produce are not great. the idea is simple, but how to make it efficient and at the same time as strong as a current piston type compressor is the hard part

[@GordieGii]

Lots of fish tank compressors work this way.

[@titter3648]

1. the springs at the ends make it less efficient turning energy into heat in the springs. 2. the airgap is massive making the airgap magnetic losses big.

[@jeffjohnson8444]

Built a working model of this over 10 yrs ago in a workshop in Florida. Still have it in a box somewhere. Very cool to see this come forward. Very clever how they used the sine wave of AC current to generate the pump.

[@PiefacePete46]

@Jeff Johnson : It's ironic that the motion of a piston compressor is close to a sine wave! 😉

[@natiezclement4400]

Or just use Scroll Compressors ??? They've been proven to be way more efficient than piston (up to 40% more efficient, approaching near 100% efficiency), and also quieter, way simpler and way more reliable since there is less moving parts (unlike the solution shown in this video, that look like a maintenance and reliablility nightmare). Pretty sure more and more air conditioners are already using scroll compressors anyway. But obviously, new ideas are always welcome. I just wanted to point out that a well fleshed out solution to that problem already existed.

[@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475]

The dual action pumping here looks promising. Using Magnetic/electrical fluctuation in the EM field to generate power is the ultimate goal for efficiency, EM field being a fundamental component of the Universe. Plus... i like Magnets.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Response from Magtor CTO : There are many types of compressor in use and the industry somewhat specialises within particular technologies based on the power requirements, type of applications, manufacturing costs, end product costs, etc. Regarding efficiency of scroll vs reciprocating compressors, not all sources agree but the trend is that scroll compressors are at least slightly more efficient, based on operating conditions… There is this interesting white paper from Schneider Electric, “The different types of cooling compressors” download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_Doc_Ref=SPD_VAVR-AE7T7G_EN and I also found this study: “Comparison of hermetic scroll and reciprocating compressors operating under varying refrigerant charge and load” at docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2517&context=icec

[@arjenchristianhelder1027]

isn't a scroll compressor even more efficient? as there is no parts that oscillate, they just rotate. the oscillation, making a part of the pump move back and forth means that 50 times per second you need to apply force to reverse the motion of the pump from back and forth, i know the springs will take some of that load, but a scroll compressor has no such limitation, its just spinning, and is driven by an efficient BLDC motor.

[@manin10]

The scroll compressors are built to very high tolerances, so might be more expensive to manufacture. Also, manufacturing very small scroll compressors might not be practical. They also need a conventional motor. Could be incorrect with these thoughts! Brushless motors lose efficiency as they get hotter, so that might be a concern.

[@StephanAhonen]

The force needed to slow the piston down at the end of its travel doesn't need to come from the stator, this is a compressor, the energy contained in the inertia of the piston will simply be absorbed by the working fluid and turned into pressure. Additionally, you can tune the mass of the piston and the strength of the springs to resonate at 50 or 60 hz, so the stator still doesn't need to do the work of turning the piston around, the energy just gets stored in the spring and released.

[@mikemcconnell2794]

I feel the same but, linear motors can be more efficient. One thing that would help in reversing the pistons would be the compressed gas. My thoughts are the need for counter movement to reduce vibration. In the video you can see the vibrations going through the pipes. That can't be good. Maybe they thought all that out. We'll see.

[@richjones2767]

@@manin10 scroll compressors are extremely common, your car probably has a belt driven one in it as well as the commercial a/c units, they go dowm to pretty small sizes.

[@cherylm2C6671]

They may be thinking of low gravity or zero gravity environments. It may be a matter of comparing failure fallout(s), but it sounds awfully specialized to be force fed to everyday appliances.

[@sofia.eris.bauhaus]

it's so frustrating when companies are outright boastful about their patents. like i get that they feel to have to do it to get it starting at all, but it's really nothing to be proud of, especially if it's such an industry where healthy competition can have a big impact on the environment and could end up saving lives.

[@shyft09]

For me that was the bit that was a little "sales pitchy" - patents are good for investors, not so good for saving the planet from climate dissaster

[@marvinglenn]

@5:00 the maximum force _is_ at the ends of the stroke. It's the minimum velocity at the ends of the stroke. Do the calculation of the leverage the crank has at this points and you can see that too. (i.e. treat the crank and piston connection as a triangle and calculate the leverage force the crank has at different locations, assuming constant moment on the crank.) Also, these supposed inertial forces are not against the motor, but rather the crank. If you could find a way for a motor to always be putting energy _into_ inertial forces, you would have probably found a way to destroy energy.

[@jeffcampsall5435]

Maximum force of the piston or maximum force of the motor. Isnt the motor force on the piston the greatest when the the force is tangential?

[@EmilNystrom84]

I was just going to say this, glad at least one other person out of i dont know how many thousands actually understands mechanics. Unfortunately this video is absolute rubbish. Multiple misunderstandings of basic principles by the marketing pers...sorry author 😆

[@EmilNystrom84]

@@jeffcampsall5435 You are confusing torque and force. Given a static torque output from the drive motor you will get the maximum force at the last increments of linear motion before the piston reverses direction. This due to that the mechanism of the crank transforms each degree of rotation inte less and less linear motion at the end of the stroke.

[@jeffcampsall5435]

@@EmilNystrom84 assuming force is a function of acceleration, isn't the acceleration of the piston greatest half way up its travel? ie when the motor arm is perpendicular to the piston

[@KOTSR]

@@jeffcampsall5435 while the acceleration is highest at the *start of the stroke, the speed is the highest exactly halfway through the Stoke, and it * decelerates toward the end which is where the most force is exerted.

[@superakman14]

I remember reading about a condenser design that , instead of radiating heat to the surrounding atmosphere, it heats up a material that emits IR light and blasts that light to the vacuum of space. Scaling up this technology and you could cool an entire planet.

[@uhhhhh262]

That sounds cool, any more info?

[@agsystems8220]

Except that IR doesn't escape the planet. That's the whole greenhouse effect problem. We hit this lucky coincidence where solar light peaks at a frequency the atmosphere is transparent allowing us to see and photosynthesis to occur, but away from that light doesn't get in or out till you get to microwave or x-ray bands. I mean, you could heat it to the point where it is actually incandescing in the spectrum window, but you will need a lot of additional energy to do that. It would need to be at several hundred degrees.

[@RobertSmith-lr2ew]

!!-ah? Well! 🤔 Dang! 🧐 What box?

[@CL-gq3no]

@@agsystems8220, At least some IR light passes through our atmosphere so why would some of it not be able to pass back out of our atmosphere?

[@robinholmes785]

Most air conditioning systems use a Scroll compressor not a piston compressor so how does this Maxtor compare? Due to the very high compression ratio, the biggest loss of efficiency in a HVAC compressor design, is the sealing around the compressing element. I am very interested to find out how they are achieving this high compression with such a small stroke; and the life they are getting on a sealed design.

[@jf2222222]

Spot on

[@geekswithfeet9137]

How do you achieve a high compression on a free piston without risking collision is my question

[@lengould9262]

@@geekswithfeet9137 Cushion dampers on the bottom of the opposing piston?

[@rfldss89]

Yeah i was also under the impression that we moved on from piston compressors in most use cases, even car superchargers don't use pistons.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Response from Magtor CTO : There are many types of compressor in use and the industry somewhat specialises within particular technologies based on the power requirements, type of applications, manufacturing costs, end product costs, etc. Regarding efficiency of scroll vs reciprocating compressors, not all sources agree but the trend is that scroll compressors are at least slightly more efficient, based on operating conditions… There is this interesting white paper from Schneider Electric, “The different types of cooling compressors” download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_Doc_Ref=SPD_VAVR-AE7T7G_EN and I also found this study: “Comparison of hermetic scroll and reciprocating compressors operating under varying refrigerant charge and load” at docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2517&context=icec

[@petehalasz7547]

Very interesting, as mentioned already. Some manufacturers are already using scroll compressors. Very quiet, vibration free, very efficient compared to piston ore variable swashplate design. Mitsubishi electric vehicles have been using the high voltage scroll for over 10 years. I believe we have to worry not only Hydro consumption but always use better gases. Great job on the video

[@SaiaArt]

The best way to solve the problem is reducing the work load. Check for & seal air leaks in the building. On exceptionally hot days, keep windows & shades/blinds closed. Keep hot air, & direct sunlight out. If you have a basement, keep the door open allowing the cooler air below to act as a heat sink to the warmer are above. Keep bathroom doors closed as the exhaust vents allow warm air from outside to enter a building. These steps also reduce humidity inside buildings. All that equates to air conditioners operating fewer hours.

[@dennismiller5725]

definitely needed in electric vehicles where heat and cooling are dependent on battery storage.

[@rfldss89]

Most hvac systems already use compressors that are much more efficient than piston compressors. Im not sure this is the innovation that they claim it is, although I'll gladly be proven wrong.

[@ryzlot]

Also need an inverter which robs efficiency JR

[@awarring7]

Thank you for the great video. I'm in the HVAC design industry and I would be very interested in how these compressors compare with scroll, screw, and centrifugal compressors as these are the most common types of compressors I run across. Also, one comment. My understanding is that low press liquid enters the evaporator and evaporates to absorb the heat from the space.

[@markusfalk9459]

Precisely. At my working place, we have several air compressors which pump a huge amount of air at ~7bar. They use about 160kW of power each. Just ONE of these more efficient compressors would do wonders for our electrical bill!

[@ands246]

Yeah I think the explanation of how the ac actually works wasn’t great in this video. While yes, the compression and expansion do in and of themselves heat and cool the refrigerant a little bit, the vast majority of the heat change is due to the change in phase (ie liquid to gas, gas to liquid). The compressor and expansion valve basically force the refrigerant to boil and condense at specific points, meaning that they have to absorb or release heat at those points. This is important because changing a substance’s phase releases/absorbs way more heat than could ever be hoped to absorb/release just from heating or cooling off that substance in the same phase. So yes, your understanding is correct! Hopefully my explanation made sense, the main point is that you need to force the refrigerant to boil or condense to have an efficient ac system, as the phase changes absorb/release a ton of heat

[@fredericrike5974]

@@ands246 Not bad considering you are trying to explain a good third of thermodynamics in a simple declarative paragraph. Not at all! Those boiling points and liquification pressures will define what those numbers are and the amount of energy required to make the "fluid" move through the system will tell about efficiency. Here is a thought; nitrogen would do just this- and be pretty good at it. But nitrogen would need a much higher pressure to base a system on and it is intensely cold as it enters it's gaseous phase- metal crystallizing cold. That is a shame- our atmosphere is 70% nitrogen to begin with. FR

[@FrancisKoczur]

@@ands246 The phase change is used in refrigeration to keep the delta T from being much larger. The energy is stored in the phase change rather than in the specific heat capacity. The condenser and evaporator have limits on their heat exchange. The compressor is the only thing doing work, and adds heat to system (whether in cooling or heating mode) and COP measures this. Fans increase heat exchange for practical sizing (but are also used for distribution), an extremely large fin can be made that has the same heat exchange as a normal sized one with a fan. The expander doesn't remove heat (doesn't cool) since it's adiabatic (left side of enthalpy chart), although it can in a turbo-expander (isentropic), but currently they are cost prohibited in residential and commercial (they are used in industrial). I believe these will be the next high efficiency gain after variable speed compressors are standard.

[@justindarkcloud]

@Alex warring- I’m in the HVAC/R repair industry. If you are designing things, for the love of god, make it serviceable!!!!! Also, it is high pressure liquid up to the tx valve

[@questioneverything4633]

This is amazing. Now we need to get them to the public at fair prices. Or at least some open-source blueprints.

[@Jack-bs7cy]

To me the best way to make air-conditioning more efficient is to increase the size of the condenser coil and when you do that you need a larger condenser fan but that cost money. And the best way of all, a well insulated and sealed building.

[@jostouw4366]

What you going to breathe?

[@sandponics]

I live in Perth, Australia, and have no air conditioning in my house, and yet the interior of the house never overheats during the summer and is always comfortably warm during the winter. With intelligent design and adequate insulation mechanical air conditioning is not required.

[@PiefacePete46]

@David Lockett : Yours is the ideal situation. We live in Hawkes Bay, New Zealand which has a delicious climate. Our home is twenty years old, and we do not have to use air conditioning much. This is more because of good luck rather than good design. I say this because other homes in the area from the same architect do not perform as well. We have a number of nicely oriented large double-glazed windows; combine these with the ability to close off "zones" gives us the abilty to manipulate temperatures. This would not work if we were not retired, and therefore able to open and close things during the day to make the best of the available climate. There are times when we are opening doors to jetison excess heat, yet our neighbours are lighting the wood-burner in their earlier-styled home.

[@sandponics]

@@PiefacePete46 Thanks John. A little bit of good building design (and some good luck) can go a long way in helping to keep a building cool or warm. I also am retired, and because of the very hot summer that has recently been experienced in many countries in the northern hemisphere I suspect that we in the southern hemisphere may be in for something similar over the next six months, and so I am currently adding extractor fans to help remove the hot air, which in the roof space can reach over 50 degrees C on a hot summers day here in Perth, and after a week or so of 40 degrees + days, even with good insulation, the afternoon heat from the roof can start to creep into the fabric of the building.

[@jonathanedelson6733]

Just to clarify, what comes out of the expansion valve should be mostly _liquid_. There may be some gas because the warm liquid refrigerant needs to be cooled down to the low pressure boiling point of the refrigerant in the evaporator coil, but what enters the coil is mostly liquid which then gets evaporated by the heat absorbed by the coil. Jon

[@jamesmathias6973]

I agree the refrigerant coming out of the expansion valve is mostly liquid. There is some vapor because going through a valve is an isenthalpic process (constant enthalpy) and the pressure goes down, the temperature goes down and the specific volume (inverse of density) goes up and some of the liquid "flashes" into the vapor form to keep the enthalpy the same. The vapor does very little in the evaporator but the liquid evaporates taking energy in the form of heat out of the warm air.

[@TheJacov]

Basically it's a solenoid pump. The critical bits are improving the mechanical and magnetic efficiencies. Solenoids have been around (roughly) as long as electric motors, but they have mainly been used as drivers for relay switches and their use as motors has been limited heretofore. If this use proves out, then I say bravo!

[@odonald6087]

My espresso machine has a vibe-pump, which is, as far as I can tell, the same thing, only smaller. Fairly noisy if it's operating at 50Hz.

[@warpmonkey]

Vibration seems like it would be something they have to manage. Maybe mounting two of them operating in opposite cycles to each other would help, but the heavier the shaft is, the more it will bounce around.

[@nitt3rz]

I don't think vibration will be any more than a piston compressor.

[@masoncnc]

I figure there's going to be massive losses and efficiency having all that inertia buzzing back and forth at 60 Hz. Nothing revolutionary here at all

[@steve-o6413]

The noise factor will probably rise also, maybe why they are holding them back until they can solve the problem...

[@briannugent5518]

You beat me to it. For the same power, the two half pumps would only increase the overall mass a bit. A double system would use linear voice control motors rather than basic solenoids motors for perfect balance and vibration cancellation.

[@Tore_Lund]

Linear refrigiation compressors have existed since the1980'. They have less wear and noise.

[@markbeiser]

It will be interesting to see if they can work out the longevity problems with them. LG has had massive problems with the linear compressors in their refrigerators.

[@briangray6461]

I am delighted to see you putting new ideas out there and then inviting folks with expertise to comment. And - I am equally delighted with the respectful nature of the comments - this is the type of constructive exchange of ideas we need more of. Thank-you. Also - I too would love to see a follow up ‘part 2’ where you share more on this closing the loop to answer the best questions from the comment section (eg comparisons to scroll comp etc). Again - great work - the role you play is valuable to society.

[@kushalvora7682]

I also had read some articles about the new breakthrough in Air-conditioners which don't require refrigerant. Instead it uses a proprietary alloy.

[@0987654321mnbvcxzmor]

Solid state magnets are so powerful now they can be used for field coils or on the rotor of multi phase motors,this increases efficiency of electric motors greatly

[@incognitotorpedo42]

What is a solid state magnet?

[@jostouw4366]

@@incognitotorpedo42 A dream?

[@johndalgliesh9220]

That sounds like a great improvement, but the missing info is what CoP do they get? Personally in the refrigeration space I'm more excited about solid state cooling, using the giant electrocaloric effect. A recently discovered material has demonstrated a ΔT over 50°C at room temperature attaining a CoP of 18 (antiferroelectric thick films). I believe the similar magnetocaloric effect has been mentioned on this channel. Anyway, keep up the great work highlighting these advances!

[@SpykerSpeed]

I read that Carrier was in talks to buy this new technology from the company that had developed it, but shareholders of the small company are putting a stop to the sale because it has the potential to be worth much more than the entire market capitalization of Carrier.

[@TestTest-eb8jr]

"Free piston" compressors are not really new, I have used them in various projects some odd 30 years ago (I don't remember the specs though)

[@AlanRPaine]

A Coefficient of Performance of 18 sounds amazing ( 1 kW of compressor power produces 18 kW of refrigeration). Producing chilled glycol water at 0 °C with an ambient at 30 °C I thought that a CoP of 5 was very good.

[@peterdunne9819]

@@AlanRPaine cop of better than 5 was my first build, went on to 5.5 and my teammates have gone on to hit cop6

[@AlanRPaine]

@@peterdunne9819 Is this making 0 °C glycol water? Can you do this with packaged water chillers or do you need a special design?

[@ooglek]

Excellent update! I want to replace my compressor now! I hope that Magtor will post the products that their compressors are found in eventually so I can choose one when it is time to replace or purchase a new A/C unit.

[@macmcleod1188]

Had a real interesting experience this summer. My 35 year old Magic Chef house air conditioning unit broke right at the start of the summer. So I went to using window units expecting that I would have a very high utility bill that month before I got the air conditioner fixed. Amazingly the electricity usage was down 45% from the prior-year. After getting the central air conditioning unit fixed I only use it for 20 minutes a day in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening. I have been much colder and my bill for July was down 47%. This lowered the charges from $178 last year to $105 this year for an 1800 square foot extremely well insulated house with temperatures in the mid-to-high 90s. I'm pretty excited to see what happens in August because I typically hit $200 in August and the past. It makes me wonder if having multiple air conditioners in the Attic controlled by thermostats in each room would be much less expensive and much more maintainable than the traditional multi-ton unit.

[@kengallardo9269]

Mac, ignoring changes in weather, there are at least two items at work here. FIrst off, your 35 year old AC unit has much lower efficiency than even modern window units. Second, you probably don't turn on all the window units at once, just when you're in the various rooms. So instead of cooling your whole house all day with one big unit, you just cool the room you're in for the time you're in there with a small one (that's much more efficient!). Modern multi-split heat pumps (one outdoor condensing unit with multiple indoor units) are very efficient but pretty expensive, but that's basically what you described in your final sentence.

[@Myrddnn]

If they vibrate as badly as that demo did, with the yellow tubing connecting both ends, the mechanical forces of vibration would wear that pipe out, regardless of material. And it would have to have special mounts if that vibration is to be dampened. And I can only imagine the noise if the vibrations effect the chassis of whatever they are attached to. I like the idea, but I see some engineering difficulties in making it work long term in the same environments that regular compressors are used in today.

[@rkan2]

Not to mention the energy being lost in the springs??

[@oneplaneteer1708]

Don't modern ac compressors use scroll pump?

[@Froggability]

Working in hvac field, the increase in efficiencies reaches natural limits, a big aspect is the inverter, which doesn't in itself increase efficiency, but by slowing down the compressor, indoor fan and outdoor fan, reduce the friction component and by regulating the EEV you get perfect superheat and subcooling, this way gets the best efficiency

[@jupiter909]

This compressor and the smart geyser/hot water you covered recently would be massive game changes when they rolled out. Great channel this, always informative!

[@masoncnc]

High quality videos as usual. I wasn't aware air conditioners used regular piston pumps and I'm actually having hard time believing it. Don't most of them use axial flow piston pumps driven by a swash plate as in the automotive industry? Hard to imagine this solenoid pump is going to be more efficient. Cheaper yes but more efficient?

[@GordieGii]

No. Radial pistons, spring return, around an eccentric bearing. i.e. the hole in the inner race is off center. Very simple, low friction.

[@mennis9156]

There are three methods used in AC/refrigeration compressors to compress gas, pistons, screws and scrolls. Screw compressors are used in large commercial/industrial equipment. The piston has been used for forever, The scroll compressor started to emerge in the late 80's to early 90's and is the predominant AC compressor in that field. All fractional hp compressors are piston as it is the most simplistic and cost effective way to build them. Automotive are using the swash plate because it allows them to a lot of hp in a small package which is ideal in a vehicle. The thing about efficiency is watts of energy consumed for the amount of energy moved. Now if a compressor is using say 30 % less watts to move the same amount of energy you are going more efficient. The bigger thing I took out of this was the lack of the need for oil in the unit. Polyolester oil in the equipment for lubrication has the ability to extract moisture out of the air very rapidly and will break down into an acid which will work on the electrical windings and it mess up the metering devices, filter/drier ( which by the way a filter/drier CANNOT remove moisture once it is in the oil). This actually will bring the efficiency down in any refrigeration system. What is interesting to me on this is the simplicity of it. Experience of 35 years in HVAC has taught me that Keep it Simple is usually a winner. I haven't seen anything in their product that is crazy weird so I will wait and see. Lastly, this may be an idea that is old but technology has caught up to the idea. That what the scroll compressor was, it was thought up along time ago and it took computerization of milling to actually make it.

[@GordieGii]

@@mennis9156 There are also centrifugal compressors. It seems their supposed 33% improvement is in comparison to rotary piston pumps, the least efficient type. Explain how they eliminate the oil. In common rotary piston compressors (for A/C) the oil never comes in contact with air, only the refrigerant, so absorption of water shouldn't be an issue. Maybe you are thinking of air compressors.

[@masoncnc]

@@mennis9156 Excellent excellent post!!!!!!

[@mennis9156]

@@GordieGii Moisture absorption in the refrigeration oils is an issue in the field. If the lines are left open to the atmosphere for more than 5 minutes the polyolester oil will absorb an unacceptable amount of water vapor. Now, if the tech pulls a very good vacuum on the system ( down to 250 microns or less ) the issue becomes mute. If you go down to say 500 microns which was considered the bench mark for mineral oil now you could be having a problem down the road with oil breakdown, sludge creation, etc. I see this problem all too often in small commercial refrigeration systems. What happens is the evaporators will start to leak after a couple years due to corrosive air in the unit from the foods being cooled down. Since all equipment is built to be as inexpensive as possible there aren't any safety switches to shut the system down and it goes into a vacuum and starts to pull air into the refrigeration system and there is the moisture I am talking about. The effect is that the oil absorbs the moisture, the oil breaks down into acid and then that acid attacks the desiccant in the filter/drier and it starts discharging a white waxy type material which coats the inside of the entire system and you now have a boat anchor. I had a Tech from a very large manufacturer tell me that there policy on this is if it is under warranty they will send out the entire refrigeration system and pay to have it installed; if it is not under warranty they recommend changing the evaporator, accumulator, filter/drier and capillary tube and hope it lasts 5-6 months !! Most refrigeration compressors do require oil for lubrication. Daiken has a screw compressor that is oil less, they accomplish this by using magnetic levitation on the screws. Nothing touches so no need form lubrication. The statement in the video was it was oil less which I took at face value. If that is true then alot of the issues I described go away and that is a very BIG deal !! ( In my opinion ) I hope this clarifys things. BE well !

[@leifhietala8074]

I think this would need to be deployed in opposed pairs, so the thrust of one could be canceled out by the thrust of another. Otherwise the unit will sound like a buzzy mess while running. That said, speed control amounts to a tone generator because this is essentially a big voice coil.

[@ShadowPoet]

Depends on the reciprocating frequency... from the diagram it shows the unit suspended between two dampening springs (pretty beefy ones)... if tuned correctly to the springs.... you could basically cancel out the resonate frequency to a degree as to make it negligible as the back/forth motion could harmonically be cancelled out the opposing back/forths counter-generated by the springs. This would be fairly easy to tune.

[@thisismagacountry1318]

Perfect timing. I'm starting HVAC training soon.

[@edreusser4741]

Brilliant! You always succeed in blowing my mind. Thank you sir!

[@psychosis7325]

"Your piston return springs are noisy" LOL Jokes aside, they must be eating up a heap of energy though losses in heat and due to rebound. I can see this maybe replacing some hand held and portable air compressors and being quite competitive, but I do not see how its going to compete with modern AC and industrial compressor units in efficency or in many applications. Thickness of the dampeners under that tank makes me think that thing is a vibrational nightmare and at any significant scale/mass its going to turn into a jackhammer. I'd like to see some actual numbers of energy in and work done, as opposed to vs single example unit before I put more than about $50 into one of these, because it sounds too good to be true for how it actually looks.

[@stevesas4744]

Like many of the other comments, there is the rotary scroll compressor that has passed the test of time and is more efficient than the conventional type. We have seen claims like these before. Its a linear motor with piston compressors on each side. Nothing to patent here. You may get a few % efficient over other types but how electrical machines operate in the real world needs to be proven.

[@RayMrRobert]

Brilliant. Thank you. I Amerika in awe of your programs.

[@Chobaca]

I needed some hope. Had never heard about this. THANKS 💓

[@StringerNews1]

Amazing. I had just assumed that A/C manufacturers had converted to rotary compressors years ago. To think that the humble motor used in fish tank air compressors is the future of more efficient air conditioning! I wonder if pairing these with motor controllers similar to the ones used in "inverter" mini-split systems can eek out enough additional efficiency to justify their cost. Although a sine wave is pretty ideal for driving rotary synchronous motors, I can imagine that more of a sawtooth wave could provide electromotive force more in proportion to the increasing resistance of the compressing gas.

[@Chimel31]

Awesome in the lab. Currently, heat pumps require an electricity plan that's larger (and more expensive) than what you use on a daily basis only because of the compressor startup requirements.

[@henrik.norberg]

Not at all. I live in an old summer house in Sweden year around with a heat pump working down to -25C. I only have 16A 240V to my house in the middle of nowhere that is the smallest possible here in Sweden. NEVER blown a fuse and it run on the same 10A fuse as my computer/tv/heater in my car and more. I own a Mitsubishi Electric FH25 from 2015 and the manufacturer recommend a 10A fuse.

[@nickbadi3599]

Inverter driven compressors which are the norm these days have a starting current less than the peak current as they start at low rpm

[@Chimel31]

@@henrik.norberg Thank you both for the additional info. I am just at the start of selecting and installing a heat pump for my new old house, so I already know I won't use the so-called professional who just told me this lie...

[@fredericoamigo]

Brilliant video as always! Keep up the good work mate!

[@alanjameson8664]

About thirty years ago variable speed screw compressors began to appear in home air conditioners, replacing the older reciprocating compressors. Far quieter and more dependable--the screw (think Archimedes Screw) turns faster or slower as needed, but never reverses. Definitely more efficient.

[@andrewbolitho]

Looks very similar to the Sawafuji Swing Motor which has been around for years in the Engel Fridge-Freezers. Japanese technology at its best.

[@steve-o6413]

Anytime you bring a magnet into the picture the noise level increases, wonder what the new compressors sound like..?

[@TheWSCCHEMISTRY]

I was thinking the same. Like a huge aquarium bubbler.

[@MrMartinNeumann]

Care to elaborate? Electric motors also use magnets and they are very quiet (so technically a traditional ac already has magnets)

[@jfjoubertquebec]

Well, perhaps not the magnet, but the "to and fro" motion.

[@hermannkorner3212]

There will be strong vibrations from the uncompensated mass moving to and fro. For a quiet device you would need to connect two compressors working in opposit directions.

[@d1j16]

Compressor motors are almost always outside of the structure, or on the rooftop, so, the noise increase is unlikely to notable; however, there are numerous options for acoustical insulation/noise-dampening that can be incorporated with only a minor impact on overall cost or increase to the carbon footprint of producing the device. Personally, for 20-25% off (33% seems a bit too optimistic) of the primary driver of my energy costs, I'll be happy to accept some extra noise round the back of my house. ;)

[@joshfernandes4150]

Brilliant explanation / communication of refrig. Cycle 👌🏽

[@nsmith0723]

That's ingenious! I was thinking some kind of propeller style pump or wangle type thing. Would never have thought of that

[@fungussa]

Wow, that's incredible!

[@davesmith9325]

No, it's not. See diverse other comments

[@fungussa]

@@davesmith9325 You're incoherent.

[@joelthomastr]

sharp cookie?! surely that should be "sharp biscuit" in the UK /j

[@ElJohnerino]

Well, are we talking custard cremes or bourbons here? These are the big questions.

[@EleanorPeterson]

@@ElJohnerino- Both are brilliant for dunking, and 100% yummy, but I'd prefer milk chocolate Hobnobs, please. 😁 (And I thought the expression was 'smart cookie', not 'sharp cookie'...)

[@trueriver1950]

We use "smart cookie" in the UK. However for us there is a difference between a cookie and a biscuit. Biscuits are crunchy; cakes are soft, and cookies are somewhere between

[@joelthomastr]

@@trueriver1950 I forgot to add the /j at the end :D

[@danromeo3913]

I have a pond aerator using that technology. Its run 24/7 for three plus years now. Id say its certainly promising and has so few parts being part of the advantage.

[@rusturuss123]

Well presented with good info. Thank you

[@jeffreypomeroy6173]

So essentially this operates similarly to a diaphragm pump but just with a selenoid instead of a motor? There are alot of ways to improve the efficiencies of an hvac system but it is often overlooked when it comes to residential.

[@ReevansElectro]

Almost every home that has an AC unit could be 30% more efficient right now by JUST INSULATING THE HOUSE BETTER. Very few homes in the lower attitudes are well insulated. Many people just don't get the idea of insulation in those warm regions. Also, opening doors and windows while the AC unit is on is a common practice in these same countries because that is how they used to cool their homes and they somehow think that having AC and opening doors is somehow even better.

[@pin65371]

When the Texas power outage was happening I was having arguments with people about that. They kept saying that they dont need insulation because it never gets that cold. They dont seem to get that insulation keeps the heat out as well. Let the non mechanical stuff do the heavy lifting and fill in the gaps with mechanical. Even something as simple as having smart blinds that open and close to control heat gain/loss can make a big difference.

[@cycleforlife360]

First rule of HVAC, there is no substitute for insulation :)

[@Ricky-nq7lu]

Something we have just pushed for here in New Zealand Robert as most home in New Zealand didn't have suitable levels of insulation to keep the heat within the home to start with. The only thing I questioned was fitting heat pumps into all rental homes as I can see a lot of people dyeing if we get a freak cold wave and weather that shut down the power grid. I know we need to get the carbon issue sorted, But log burners have got a truck load cleaner an can save on power just by having one. I say that as I've just looked hard at my mate's new home that the log burner dose all the heating that's including heating all hot water for showers, washing and heating the floors. Plus his log burner is like a model take of the old wood stoves and they cook on it as well & burns so cleanly you don't see any smoke at all when looking at the chimney. Like he's stated it only to he can trust the tech as his other option was a small diesel Generator and he hated that idea.

[@ThomasBomb45]

@@Ricky-nq7lu The priority should be improving the reliability of the electric grid so Texas doesn't happen again. But it is also fine to have heat pump plus backup heat sources for when power goes out.

[@Ricky-nq7lu]

@@ThomasBomb45 That so true Lily. Same concerns and yet where half way around the world from each other.

[@jonathanevans9257]

I focus on air conditioning in computer rooms and the biggest thing to come along is 'immersion cooling' immersion of servers in non conductive fluid instead of blowing cold air around them, huge savings in energy.

[@richardrigling4906]

I may have this confused with industrial air compressors but . . . I'm relatively certain AC compressors in the USA are scroll compressors, not piston. They are inherently more efficient, run quieter and last longer. They are simpler to manufacture, but do require close tolerances between the scroll and the enclosing cylinder. I belive they have been the standard for several decades.

[@menguardingtheirownwallets6791]

Install a new more efficient electric motor, that's how. Turntide Technologies builds switched reluctance motors that consume 30% less electricity compared to a conventional A/C unit that uses a regular electric motor using a variable speed drive. An A/C unit running at full speed is fine, but when you try to slow it down to only half-speed; that is when those induction motors become very inefficient, and the switched reluctance motors are superior.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

No, absolutely not. Switched reluctance motors can never surpass 100% efficiency, which is absolutely required to consume 33% less than 90% efficient induction motor

[@TheEulerID]

@@volodumurkalunyak4651 I have seen more than one person commenting on this video who seems to think that a 33% cut in wasted energy is a 33% increase in efficiency. If we define efficiency as useful work out divided by energy input (a fairly normal definition) this is all nonsense of course.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

@@TheEulerID 33% increase in efficiency could be 75% to 100%. Induction motors are nowhere near that bad to only be 75% efficient at a aircon power level. Hence 33% increase in efficiency from motor change is completely impossible.

[@Nighthawkinlight]

I wonder if that would work well as an audio driver in thermoacoustic applications.

[@Chris-vx5kp]

I bet you are going to build one out of house hold-materials and old shoes then do some cool experiment aren't you?!

[@TheNightwalker247]

Can't wait to see your take on it @nighthawkinglight the other lnes on thermoacoustics have been super interesting

[@realcygnus]

Hey bud .... Build one ... In a video coming soon.

[@lordsamich755]

I don't see how it makes a difference. The issue with thermoacoustic refrigeration is in rectifying the flow of thermal energy.

[@nosson77]

Not sure what the thermo part is about but with audio that's how speakers work already.

[@Pscfreitas]

At 8:34 there was a lot of vapourware selling "you won't find a magtopressor or magtopump on the shelf of your local hardware store, though (...) phalanx of transformative technologies performing crucial energy saving functions"

[@DimaZheludko]

7:48 You can clearly see how violently this thing vibrates. It's made of thick, hard steel. It is tightly bolted to the ground. And still it vibrates so hard, that even yellow pipes shake noticeably. Whoever did this demo needs to think again. Maybe connecting two such pumps in opposite direction would do the trick? Or they just consider violent vibrations to be the norm?

[@buddywhatshisname522]

This is exciting… I’d love to see this installed on my ship (marine engineer here). I’m wondering how noisy it is though.

[@jimgraham6722]

This technology has been talked about but not implemented for about thirty years. I believe noise and vibration have been big issues in developing it beyond concepts phase.

[@williamcooper9753]

Not me Buddy. When I sailed keeping the rooms cool was one of my highest priorities. It was all about dependability. I would let the Deck Department have this thing. WBC. CH/E retired

[@Real_Tim_S]

Given the description that it runs at 50/60Hz main-like frequencies - I imagine you could look up vibratory bowl-feeder (like: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3_UpZaLeb1jo9k ), which uses the same type of mains driven coil to move the bowl (some use a rectifier to essentially double the frequency - a trick Magtor apparently missed - see this primer: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2OaoHdnrMuEZrsm3s ).

[@matthewconnor5483]

I thought many HVAC units used scroll pumps, not reciprocating pistons to compress the refrigerant.

[@jeffj2495]

Absolutely fascinating. AND very well described. I understood your vid. I wish I could replace our current whole house air conditioner compressor with this vastly more efficient unit - in Austin, TX.

[@jamesspinks716]

One good attribute is the compressor won’t do its self damage in a stall situation. With rotary to linear motion the piston has to go full stroke for the crank to rotate. I suspect this type will handle liquid a little better. Very interesting technology. I do a little work on oil less turbine systems where the crank is suspended magnetically, there’re very efficient but very large these look to fill a small system niche.

[@stevedugas2806]

Air conditioners were also partly responsible for the a change in the Southern Community Culture (although it happened in many other areas as well). Everyone used to sit out on their porches on hot summer nights, socializing with neighbors while the children played outside. During the day, windows were open so that parents on the inside could hear and see what was going on outside. With the adoption of air conditioning, people went inside and closed the windows and doors, isolating the communities. They even stopped putting porches on houses because few people used them. People with air conditioning are far less social.

[@DLWELD]

Interesting observations!

[@IoannisArgyridis]

Interesting idea but how does the efficiency of this magtor compressor compare to other types like rotary scroll compressors? Also considering the efficiency of the whole AC system, how does this compare to geothermal heat pumps for both cooling and warming a house?

[@TheEulerID]

Q "how does this compare to geothermal heat pumps for both cooling and warming a house?" Here you have hit on the really important bit of fundamental physics ignored by all this nonsense which is mostly just regurgitating the advertising and promotional material of a company. What matters most with a heat engine is those basics of the temperature of the heat source and the heat sink (if we are cooling - reverse if heating). Air cooled A/C units get less efficient as ambient air temperatures increase, just when they are most needed. Similarly, heat pumps get less efficient as the ambient air temperature gets colder, again when that's when they are most needed. A ground (or water) sourced heat pump/refrigeration unit is always going to be a lot more efficient than an air sourced one as it has a relatively stable heat energy source/sink in the form of the mass of the ground or body of water. What would be much more valuable is to find more cost effective ways of using the ground as a heat source/sink. As it is, when the temperature outside drops a long way below freezing, air sourced heat pumps are hardly any more efficient than resistive heaters when the overheads are taken into account.

[@Kevin_Street]

Thank you for another fascinating video!

[@jeffsmith4789]

The reciprocating piston style pump is still used for sure but the scrolls and rotary types are taking over. There is no inrush current on the modern mini split heat pump and a quick check with an amp meter will show this. I always enjoyed showing the customer the slow build up of current on startup. Usually 0.92 amps when the compressor starts. This is a 3 phase compressor running on 240v single phase. Still an interesting video. Nice to know that the engineers are working on improving the systems.

[@grahamehadden4320]

From a business perspective, the most efficient way to roll out this tec is to license it out. As manufacturing them selves would be highly risky. Very interesting is the stated increase in efficiency as heat pumps work at roughly 33% efficiency ( I tried to find more accurate figures, no luck) That would mean an increase to over 44% efficiency which is amazing. This level of efficiency can be a game changer in the industry and can also allow an introduction to new uses.

[@angelic8632002]

Its also faster to get to market. Which is becoming an increasing concern with how poorly we have dealth with our emission problems.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

I don't think it's going to work that way. The 33% sounds like it's limited to just the compressor, while there are other components that affect the total efficiency of the system. HVAC has been around a long time, and a LOT of engineering effort has gone into it. Disruptive change is unlikely here.

[@GordieGii]

Based on the pitch in this video, that 33% is based on the lowest efficiency compressors in use today, rotary pistons. Those are basically only used in home AC units and fridges. And I understand those are already being replaced by reciprocating piston compressors. Larger scale units (industrial, high occupancy buildings, grocery stores and restaurants) all use different types of compressors (scroll, screw or centrifugal) or desiccant systems. All more efficient than pistons. Home units use the least efficient system because the purchasers are motivated by up-front cost and zero maintenance. (disposable) Large scale purchasers are motivated by ongoing costs. i.e. Electricity (efficiency) and maintainability. Environmentalists would probably do better to focus on converting high-rise buildings to central AC rather than making window units more efficient.

[@gaetansimard1594]

Very interesting. An other technology that become interesting are the absorption systems for air conditioning. The efficiency are low but could be use in heat recovery systems. This could be very interesting to increase over hall thermal efficiency of big diesel plant like on a ship. And since there is so many ships in operation around the world, using absorption systems for AC instead of traditional compressors systems could result in millions of tons of CO2 less in the atmosphere. Actually I wonder why such systems are not in use on all new vessels since this is an old technology. Thanks for your videos!

[@mikedavison3400]

@ Gaetan Simard Not an expert here but I do have a bit of knowledge regarding absorption fridges used in RVs and on boats etc. Advantages are that they are quiet (important when you’re trying to sleep right beside your fridge) and can be run on propane. Disadvantages are that they are WAY less efficient than compressor fridges and that they need to be on a fairly flat surface. There’s also the issue of the ammonia leaking and also the possibility of a fire from that. To give you an idea of how much less efficient they are I would estimate that my absorption bar size fridge that draws 170 W could be replaced by a compressor one that draws one third of that. If it could be arranged that excess heat could be used as the heat source for an absorption cooling system then it might make sense. RV absorption fridges work best when on propane and fine if hooked up to ‘shore’ power (110V) but not good at all on 12V which requires ~15A. I have 390W of solar panels so will run the fridge on 110V through an inverter but only during periods of good solar production. I have a block heater timer that I hook up so that I can have the fridge running while I’m away but if the weather turns then you can do damage to your batteries. Inverters do have low voltage shutdown features but they don’t kick in until your batteries are quite depleted. A guy who was given the moniker of Handy Bob said that batteries lasted the longest if you kept them between 80-95% of a full charge. When he and his wife first got into RVing their batteries lasted a year or so and he set out to figure out why.

[@Rahul-ki8ps]

This channel has been such a wonderful discovery for the science geek in me. Brilliant to get this new information.

[@johnwoods6751]

Thanks for the information.

[@iwenive3390]

Air conditioners can run for free if we harness the heat that gets dumped into the atmosphere. Also piston compressors died a while ago. They have been all going to rotary and scroll type for a while.

[@KalebPeters99]

I think much of the decarbonisation to be done will come from clever efficiency improvements like this. Alternative energy sources are important of course but we could also stand to cut down drastically on our energy usage(/wastage) overall!

[@mark5009mark5009]

This is amazing. The potential use of this technology is game changing for not just AC but think about all mechanical devices that need a pump

[@caseylabelle1128]

Remarkable. Thank you

[@ghosthand8119]

I can see the advantages vs a hermetic compressor but how does it stack up to a scroll compressor?

[@angelic8632002]

Its probably going to be situational, depending on the application and what makes sense economically.

[@alterego157]

Prototypes and claims are a dime a dozen. Let's see what they can actually deliver to market.

[@hamishhamilton3689]

Many people note that scroll compressors are more efficient ( this goes for screw compressors as well. But no mention of the why... Adiabatic compression has the highest theoretical compression energy requirement, Isothermal compression has the lowest theoretical compression energy requirement, Piston compressors are close to adiabatic, Scroll and screw are close to isothermal, as they dump a lot of heat from the compressing gas into the walls during the compression.