How civilian shooting matches make better Green Berets. Competitive shooting in Special Forces.

[@KLAYCO47]

Ive always said comp shooting is the best (for the price) training tool that there is. Amazing video Jeff, great explanation.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thanks

[@jeromesimpson7701]

As a retired TACP and SWAT Cop, speed and accuracy are what you really get out of competitive shooting and those will never hurt you in a gun fight. Funny I got killed in penalties in IDPA because of SWAT tactics. Still great training, most cops cant shoot and would really benefit from IDPA, USPSA, and steel matches.

[@daniel17319]

Got to get better at oppression of poor people.

[@ParaBellaActual]

Competition increases lethality, anyone who says otherwise has an ego. This video is right in line with the rest of your content… professional 💪🏻

[@mertmcguire]

Sorry for your loss of brothers, I'll say a prayer. This is one of your best videos.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thank you

[@michaelgreen7511]

Great video! In Special Forces (SF), we definitely saw a lot of correlation between guys who shot competition and guys in charge of marksmanship programs. Another guy SF guy worth mentioning and who I taught SFAUC with was Frank Proctor, who is a GM in USPSA. I really liked seeing your videos of when you started shooting matches and seeing the later ones. The progression itself should be proof to most. Hard work pays off. I'm truly humbled that you mentioned me and allowed me to represent my company @GreenOpInc. (Green Ops). Thank you!

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

I never met Frank that's why I did not mention him.

[@conorobrien2411]

Going to two-gun matches was one of the most humbling and informative parts of becoming a better marksman. So much good information to be had out there by people who do more than type baloney on a keyboard

[@stickfighter1038]

Remember the attitude against competitive shooting when I served. It was embarrassing when, as now a civilian, I got invited to a USPSA event but took it as a learning and improvement opportunity.

[@herknorth8691]

Ten or fifteen years ago there was a lot of talk about "killed on the streets!" or "they don't use cover!" that you just don't hear much of anymore. If you get training specifically in tactics, then shooting comps won't make you forget that. Indeed, if you ingrain the fundamentals of shooting deep enough, then you'll use less mental bandwidth on the shooting stuff and can use more of your brain on tactics/how to win a fight. Also, I hear a lot about how people are lonely these days. My experience as a quiet, introverted guy going to matches is that you'll get to hang out with a bunch of people that you have instant rapport with and it's easy to build friendships with very little effort, as long as you're someone who's even remotely pleasant to be around. I mostly take a fairly dim view of humanity, but my faith is restored just a little by 99% of the folks who attend matches regularly and maybe you'll have the same experience.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Agree

[@AICW]

lmao I still remember the "you'll get killed in the streets" rhetoric just ten years ago on the NRA's American Rifleman comments section on articles.

[@brotherscoobs]

❤ truth

[@mikaeljonsson2078]

I live in Sweden, where practical shooting actually is a huge sport, but almost never mentioned in the media. In the two clubs I'm a member of, there are some world class shooters, that was in the PRS world championships in France last year among other things, and they are just the most down to earth guys you could find. Same with going to IPSC competitions, people are mainly there to have fun. There are rarely any big prices to be won other than the honor of being among the top 3 in your divison. You might be bantered for screwing up on a stage, which I've done numerous times..but it's always with heart, and no bullying. It's just a great hobby if you want to go out and meet likeminded and friendly people. I think it's a universal thing🙂 If I ever moved to U.S. and felt lonely, I would go and seek up a comp shooting club, without hesitation.

[@StrykerValison]

Thanks for opening up and sharing Emotional maturity is important The fact you’re that self aware Rather you realize it or not you’re setting the example for others

[@ramilsacpopo9512]

Shoot matches guys. I thought the same even with being a regular Navy Seabees I had the same experience. Landed at 75% bottom placement on my first match. Now off to master class.

[@FUNshoot]

Excellent! Competitive shooting has been a primary driver of improved weapons training for about two centuries. Ever since rifled firearms were first available for mass issue back in the mid-19th century, individual marksmanship training has been informed by competitive shooting programs.

[@tacticaljindo]

Outstanding video as always. As a younger competitor, it’s amazing to see the history of cross pollination between the tactical and competition sides of the house.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

There are so many crossovers in tactical and competitive shooting between skills sets and gear and weapons

[@tacticaljindo]

@@ModernTacticalShooting Absolutely. My favorite part about competing in USPSA and 2-gun is learning from the wealth of experience from shooters in both worlds. I consider myself very lucky that youtube allows average joes like me access to the unique perspective you have.

[@mackellyman5642]

Let'sLet's remember Shotgun, Trap/Skeet/Sporting Clay's IMHO.

[@SinistralRifleman]

I’ve been actively competing since 2002. Many internet arguments had during the first 10-15 years of my shooting career about how competition had no practical value and was detrimental. Meanwhile I was encountering military personnel at matches doing it to improve their skills. This included Special Forces soldiers. There was also a ton of product development and advancement coming from the competition world that was applied towards small arms in military use during this time. The technological development coming from action shooting sports is huge. I attended the Fort Benning 3 Gun Match from 2005-2009. During the opening ceremony of the first event in 2005 the AMU Commander told the gathered competitors “we are here to find better ways to kill the enemies of the United States”. He came around while we were shooting and asked us about all the gear we were using and why. More recently the benefits of competition shooting aren’t really disputed as seriously as they once were. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[@SNAKEEATER1776]

Green Berets are still against shooting in competition. Except, it’s more of an ego thing for them. Not a lot of GBs are humble enough to accept old fat men, or 15 year old girls could outshoot them.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Yes I've been told by newer Green Berets still some haters out there in the force.

[@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts]

​@@ModernTacticalShootingits even worse with cops when they run matches they do goofy stuff with the scoring seperating the cops off into their own category so they don't feal bad that plumbers and mechanics are out shooting them.

[@sombra6153]

I used to encourage the task force members I used to train to pursue competition. Ammo was generally not the problem as long as they were using a duty caliber. Seemed like justifying the range or match fees and taking the time on a Saturday morning were the main obstacles. Though I haven’t shot any matches for a while, it was always me against the clock, not me worrying about looking bad in front of non LE competitors. Ironically the biggest problem I ran into was after I ran the IDPA qualifier on my first match. Shooting a Glock 21, I scored “sharpshooter.” The guy running the club worked for a different, sometimes rival agency and managed not to record the score. Mentioned I shot better than him. As far as a lot of time and money spent, I talked my wife, not really a gun person, to compete one morning. Set her up with one of my former duty pistols and basic gear. Spent one afternoon going over safety and the basic IDPA drills dry, then another afternoon in live fire covering the same drills. She didn’t win the match but didn’t come in last either.

[@sombra6153]

@@CenlaSelfDefenseConceptsa lot of the skills my former agency taught that included use of cover and movement were generally stricter than what is allowable in IDPA, but what IDPA requires is more than what most private citizens or not so well trained police will ever get or recognize they are skills they need.

[@danbandito]

I’ve had the pleasure to be one of mr eckarts range officers for four years now, one of the memorial 3 gun side stages is ran by the duskin match organization. Thanks again for your content and taking the time to shed light on us gun gamers and the crossover community between us and the special forces guys. Hope to catch you at a match sometime in the future!

[@tropicalpines4585]

Would love to see a live chat with you & Matt Pranka.

[@CAW4]

If they're worried about training scars from competition, they better be worried about the training scars from doing push ups too. By their logic they'll end up doing the second half of an eight count push up to get up from the prone in combat. I wish there were more competitions close to Campbell, I'm having to spend a few hours driving each way to even the closest matches.

[@depthcharge126]

It would be cool to see you do a round table with guys like Chuck Pressburg and Matt Pranka that were operating at the highest levels that also push for competitive shooting and modern techniques

[@justinblower7598]

When I left the PACOM CIF for the first time in the mid-90s and went to Ft Lewis, after seeing my new detachment shoot I decided to take them to a local 3-Gun match with our Detachment weapons. We got schooled by a mid-60s Grand-Ma shooting a bone stock M-16A1, rack grade 1911, and a stock Remington 870. It humbled them, which was my intent. It brought a new focus to training because it was irrefutable evidence that they weren't nearly at the level they thought. Competition, and the skills it brought to the individual, became a focus of my training for the rest of my active time until retirement both at SFARTAETC and when I went back to the CIF/CRF. Competition is good for the individual soldier, being able to shoot faster and more accurately under pressure is a directly transferable skill to combat.

[@GIR9595]

Excellent video as always! Sorry to hear about your friend Mike, he sounds like he was a fantastic guy

[@alexs1972]

I'm a civilian and I've brought a ton of military friends from my jiu-jitsu gym out to matches with me. Basically I tell them "you do drills right? Well stages are just dynamic drills. And you do them over and over."

[@RazortechAirguns]

"I wanted to make myself better" Me too, that is why I watch all of your videos. And to learn from someone that keeps wanting to be better.

[@RileygoodVideos]

Mike sounds like an awesome friend and a terrifying person to compete against. Prayers to him, his family, and his legacy.

[@allenhurt02]

BuT tHe tArgEtS dOnT ShOoT bAcK😂😂 Great video and i couldnt agree more. Ben Stoeger and Matt Pranka in my opinion have been directly responsible for changing the culture for the better!

[@gunracr]

Just based on the intro and I've mentioned this uspsa GM's statement before replying to another post. When questioned about his draw and first shot hit times on the clock. Some observers there said fast but not very tactical. His words " nothing is more tactical than shooting the other guy first"

[@bryanray9347]

There are a lot of good memories in this video. Thanks Jeff!

[@Aslowman]

I have been shooting USPSA for about a year now using a 1911 or P365xl and routinely get my tail kicked. I enjoy it the challenge of learning fast and accurate is great and a welcome change from army ranges that focus on the units ability to suppress and maneuver

[@paulsciria8921]

I appreciate you being so humble and down to earth. It says a lot about you and the others like you, that you are willing to go out of your box to learn rather than sit around just saying “I’m a tough guy”. Even if it means you loose at first. It’s funny I hear the same stuff with martial arts all the time. And to a point sure but you still learn valuable skills either way.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thank you.... I try

[@recondo886]

the "compound" was under construction when I was stationed at Ft. Bragg in the 80s. back then "Delta Force" was a movie and still a mystery that wasn't openly discussed. occasionally you'd see a non regulation haircut at Fredrick Fieldhouse or at a seminar on Post, recruitment for SFOD-D was very informative. I read Colonel Beckwith's book "Delta Force" twice over the years, the first time I read it was en route to Crete for a Live Fire exercise in 1984. anyway, flat range stuff was all we had back then unless you were associated with Delta. all things 3 Gun or IDPA would have been considered unsafe.

[@RT81775]

I gotta say the first video I watched of yours was from me looking specifically for 1911 use in Special Forces. Now you read my mind again on another topic!

[@gulkash1188]

Outstanding endorsement for competition shooting. Thanks for kicking my butt into trying to find a local match

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Get on it!

[@jred7808]

Totally agree. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. Everything should be viewed as a training cycle, to improve, lean, and think.

[@w.w.9047]

I agree with you 100%. Me and a friend hold a monthly training/shooting match and our shooting has improved exponentially under the stress of the timer, strangers eyes and multiple target engagements per course of fire. It really does beat the shit out of traditional static & KD ranges.

[@ASqdrnDA]

Great recent history retrospective in SF competitive shooting, sir. My condolences for your loss. I'm sure more people are out there being helped become better shooters in Duskin's honor. Thank you.

[@CounterT007]

Hands down, the best gun channel out there. Your delivery is awesome. Sorry about Mike’s death Sir…sounds like one heck of a dude.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thank you

[@uhohstinky5925]

You quickly became one of my favorite youtubers! I've been here since the beginning of your channel. Another great video!

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thanks!

[@Frank-uw5xq]

Thanks Jeff as always,.. Super Dave Harrington straight legend...as you and everyone mentioned

[@terranovacapitalrealtyinc430]

Thank you for sharing this episode. 3G Tactics We Are The only 3gun retailer West Of the Mississippi River. This is a true testimony of civilian extreme competition shooting.

[@benwhite1462]

Sir, you really put your finger right on it. I'm a retired policeman, 42 years of service a firearms instructor, SWAT officer and competitive, sponsored IDPA shooter. I have struggled for years getting police officers to shoot competitions. You're absolutely correct, police officers (And I'm sure military folks also) do not want to suck in front of a bunch of civilians. Nothing will increase your shooting ability like competitive shooting, it's the number one and most efficient means to become a good shooter. You definitely have to learn tactics elsewhere but as far as weapon handling and getting the bullets on target quickly.. nothing is better.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thank you!

[@rolotomase1440]

I really enjoyed this video. I had a similar experience. I thought I was big time and then realized I was just a big fish in a small pond. I got out shot by guys that worked in cubicals - that didn't carry guns for a living - in fact some of them didn't even carry concealed, they just shot as a sport and they were better than me. Thank you and sorry about your friend.

[@seanwhite304]

Man there was a good chance I shot in a match where you guys were present in 20 teens. Peacemaker National Training Center is my home range in Glengary WV . I saw that pic out the FN Baricade and I remember than Match. PNTC started out sponsored by Colt then went to FN and now Sig .. I've leanred more from shooting matches then I have taking classes to a certain extent. Awesome Video bro .

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thanks!

[@johnmacias01]

This is great information & much appreciated. Sorry for your loss, I’m thankful for you guys on the frontline. God Bless all our Military Heroes & First Responders‼️✝️🇺🇸

[@FluffiestHamster]

I've always told people that shooting competitively will help make you a better shooter, but that doesn't necessarily mean shooting competition. For most people shooting a match is the only way they can get access to facilities and materials where you can do that type of shooting. If you have the resources to do so, balancing "tactical" classes with some level of competition among peers will get you a lot of the same benefits. But it's a lot easier to just shoot IDPA or 3-Gun at your local club.

[@Emilianoo8]

thanks for sharing this video something to think about it makes sense that speed and control while still being on point like with anything it helps

[@got2soar]

Thanks for the walk back Jeff. I always loved it when active duty guys shot my 3-gun matches and encouraged it by waiving the match fee. I got a lot of help running the Rock Hard 3-gun match at Rockcastle and then the Blueline 3-Gun match at Lucas from the Marine Reserve shooting team and the All Guard Army team. Bruce

[@JamesFroelich]

Great video. Had the privilege to know and shoot with quite a few of those guys about ten years ago.

[@milescivis1018]

I literally have every color of every shade of those ATG shirts. Wear it to the range, the woods, the workshop, the office…weddings. They are the M4 of male torso attire. 5 stars

[@sombra6153]

I like the approach you took in making this video. You addressed many of the “concerns” that a lot of professionals have when thinking about competing against “non professionals.” Though not an operator, I think moments of competition over the years made me more confident in my own ability to handle stress when situations got tense above and beyond what academies or in-service ( and conventional Army training) were teaching at the time. Nothings going to prepare everyone every time for that proverbial “ohh poop” moment besides an earlier “ohh poop” moment, but incorporating competition into a training regiment is not going to hurt anything.

[@Vince-ml9gw]

Excellent. Jeff, thank you for sharing your history, thought process, reasoning, and evolution as a shooter. Very inspirational. Thank you for your service. 🇺🇸

[@AmicusAmici1125]

I really enjoy your style content. There’s a lot to be said about the fundamentals that competitive shooters work hard to improve that would benefit all shooters better than a lot of these “high speed” instructors who try and sell tactics. Speed, accuracy and proficiency with a firearm and the ability to teach and explain the drills and fundamentals is what I want out of a class, not how to “pie” off a room for 1 man cqb entry 🙄

[@shrapmagnet]

RIP Mike Duskin. What a great instructor and warrior in general. Of course, Kyle Lamb's contribution to both the competition and tactical shooting communities just can't be understated. I missed all the 37 matches due to TDY's and such, but I heard some of the local civilian competitors from places like that range on 87 North really getting overcome by events on a lot of those stages! I support our people participating in these types of matches. My 2 cents, is that someone with a solid foundation (like a experienced SFARTEC/SFAUC grad) will only benefit from any type of well-executed training that involves live fire. The only caveat I have on the matter is that not everything translates- just like how not everything that is in MMA translates to hand to hand combat in full kit- because as an amateur MMA "enthusiast", I really don't have a leg to stand on in a conversation on the matter with, say, Tim Kennedy. But that experienced shooter with the solid foundation should recognize what parts of that "game" aren't going to apply in the real world, and leave those things in the "competition tool box". Did you ever work with Pete Jones in 5th SFGA? We were in 3/5 together.

[@JaredAF]

Got narrowly beat for first place by a Green Beret MSG in two matches last year 😢

[@Dretelejr]

My main entry into shooting was through competitive shooting (IPSC), and most of the guys I compete with in indoor shooting matches before I stopped a year ago were mostly comprised of law enforcement, military, and enthusiasts. It builds a great sense of camaraderie with people from all walks of life and regardless of what they are, really. My grandfather’s military, and I shot with him as a family past time along with my mother. Competitive shooting here is highly encouraged, as it builds upon the basic fundamentals and fast action and thinking skillset every shooter should have. It’s also the “cheapest” way to train around firearms. Cheers from the Philippines!

[@jackal2484]

I think both parties are correct in a way. Competitive shooters are right, because it teaches you to shoot under stress and how to make your shots count, but your Old SF team guys are also correct, because competitive shooting can lead to training scars down the road and that most things in competitive shooting are not optimal in the field.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Lead to training scars assumes one is too dumb to know the difference. As proved by my survival, old SF guys are incorrect.

[@jackal2484]

@@ModernTacticalShooting Fair enough, but I think everyone's a little different and should always practice if these scars do occur. TLDR: Never say never.

[@Pinzul91]

Very informative video, thanks!

[@rhinooningo2865]

There are a number of SF and Unit guys who have USPSA M or GM cards. His recent troubles notwithstanding, LAV had an M card placed in the top 10 in the USPSA Limited Nationals twice, then he was one of the founders of IDPA. Frank Proctor is a GM. Mike Pannone has M cards in multiple divisions. And of course "Super Dave" Harrington - a high level IDPA shooter (mentioned in the video). Ken Hackathorn was SF before he was a Fed and he did IPSC and USPSA before helping found IDPA. The list goes on!

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Was Ken Sf? That's very unclear, and Subject for further looking into.

[@sectorseven07]

As ever, you're a huge inspiration. Thanks so much for this perspective.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thanks!

[@rpnbf8196]

Love the material Clay Martin puts out.

[@willy4869]

Sounds like classifier 22-04 "calm before the storm". First classifier i ever shot.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

You no what I think you are right!!!!

[@micfasto8700]

I was always the top shot in my Agency. Then i went to a USPSA match. The 18 months I have shot USPSA/IDPA has improved my shooting more than the 18 years prior. I did make Master in IDPA and A class in USPSA. I now take what i have learned in Practical shooting and share it with anyone that is willing. I set up a special qualification day where we if the qual out of the way and then practical drills/stages

[@shootingcomplex]

another banger from the man himself

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thanks!

[@gmz1997]

Being a Marine veteran and having shot 3 gun all through the 90's when the sport was growing, I can tell you police officers and SWAT guys that I met when invited to local PD ranges, always talked down these competitions. Not out of any real knowledge or experience but fear and their bravado. The one's I convinced to come to a match were humbled quickly and gained better individual weapon skills after being brought into the sport. A few actually moving up in their departments, building better shooting packages for training and qualification or out performing others to attend advanced FBI shooting packages. Anything that builds individual weapons handling skills is a good thing. Put your ego to the side and get out there. Will you get smoked by some skinny 20 year kid? Yep lol But if that is an issue, you got other problems that need to be addressed. Adding stress on a flat range whether through time constraints or some physical activity prior to engaging targets is good training for anyone. Love the video as it 100% supports what I have been saying for over 35 years now. lol Now if we could address some of these tactical range gymnastics through the use of airsoft with nothing but a pair of shorts, eye wear and welts, we could shoot serious holes through some of these tactics we all see on KZbin that are completely unrealistic for the average defensive engagement. lol Great video.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thank you

[@signal-0productions183]

Great insight... about ten to fifteen years ago I too felt competitive shooting would teach me bad lessons/habits. After having the pleasure of hosting Pat McNamara for a week at my place followed by hosting Clay Martin as well, I realized just how wrong my thought process was. A few years ago we had TK visit us at SWAT training (we are in central FL near Adams Arms) and gave us some shooting tips, demos, and some info on using NV and lasers. I've only shot a couple of local matches over the years and my number one regret was not getting into competitive shooting early on and sticking with it.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Nice you've met haf the people I mention!

[@gregscott2563]

Separated in 1974 in my 70’s now and still shoot a match occasionally Sorry for your loss , be well , RIP Mike Great videos

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

@@gregscott2563 Thank you

[@scout3058]

I experienced a similar feeling of humility in 2017. I was a Marine 0311 and a cop for 11 years after military service, and I thought I was good to go in terms of shooting...until I did Tim Kennedys Sheepdog Response course and fell under the instructorship of Marshall Luton. I quickly learned that I barely knew enough to stay alive without supporting arms assets or 15 other cops backing me up in a 20 square foot space. I've sinced done multiple kinetic courses in Tulsa and Florida, all based in competitive shooting skills. My friend John V is a guest instructor at Green Ops, for Mike Green. I met John (and Matt Larsen) through Sheepdog Response and ended up training with Matt Larsen in Lorton VA as a result. Great video!

[@Sometimes_Always]

You probably still suck if you're not doing USPSA action pistol style competitions.

[@EuropaChronicles]

Good video. It’s a little disappointing that Matt Pranka (aka XRay Alpha) didn’t get a mention. He earned his USPSA GM card while at Delta and now does a bunch of training classes alone and with Ben Stoeger. I think those 2 guys are the pinnacle of modern firearms instruction.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

To be honest I never heard of him until these commments

[@bpm990d]

You should have heard the silliness that they said about bullseye shooting back in the day. "Already have an expert badge, can't go any higher than that."

[@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts]

The USPSA club outside of JRTC had a contact on base that arranged for some group guys to come shoot with them. They set up some stages, had the group guys shoot, then they all split off with the USPSA guys and they gave them some instruction. They ran the same courses again and they halved their times and increased their scores. Couple years later a friend of mine got an unsolicited email from blackwater with a job offer lol he was a millwrite and a welder never been in the military.

[@derek45auto23]

excellent stuff

[@glennhynes5263]

Excellent video. Some myths are sometimes very hard to destroy. Good job

[@damonaniton]

There were always a bunch of ex SF guys doing training. I think Frank Proctor was 1 of the first really promoting competition shooting. Tactical vs competition is very different but both have something they could take from each other.

[@JorgeTapis]

The IPSC motto, DVC in Latin it speed with accuracy. A life saver in my view. Besides competitive shooters operate at high stress. Good training for anyone who uses a hand gun.

[@tomdesaeger7562]

Thx for the great info as always!

[@KFC66]

My best friend killed himself a month before I turned 21. 11 years have passed since then and I have just been wading water in life. I don't really know why I am here anymore. Don't know why I'm posting this here but I started to cry uncontrollably when you talked about your friend and felt the need to write this. Hoping that I will find whatever I need to be able to be happy in this life.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

@KFC66 Sorry for your loss. It's a bitter pill losing someone you care about. I first sought help from a Army chaplan at the time. Talking about it helped me.

[@KFC66]

@@ModernTacticalShooting I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my comment. Some days are harder than others and thankfully most are not as bad as the other day. I'm waiting for an affordable therapy to become available, for now it is too expensive for me. God bless you Sir

[@rolandbubb3398]

I am from the UK originally and started in UKPSA in 1980. That same year the British Team were invited down to Hereford to shoot with the SAS. They were interested in the guns and equipment being used in PA competitions. In particular, the 1911 in .45acp. The Team got to shoot in the famous Kill House. In 1980 the matches had many concealed carry stages and all equipment had to be concealed carry even if you were not wearing a jacket in some stages. There were no Race guns at that time, only practical modifications like triggers, flared mag wells, extended safeties, etc. It was not long after this meeting that rumors started to circulate that some SAS members were carrying Custom .45's instead of their issued Hi powers. Personally I know of one SAS Instructor who regularly shot UKPSA matches.

[@Fugettaboutit]

I've always said in these discussions that no, competitive shooting is not a substitute for actual quality defensive or combat training. But at the very least it can supplement and give you good trigger time to get as acquainted as possible with your weapon under at least some degree of use under stress. Using cover, reloads, shooting on the move, etc. and especially clearing malfunctions. Very few things will simulate, say, navigating a mine field on a dirtbike...but at the very least the better you are at riding that bike, the better your chances.

[@markanthonypar-wise1499]

Glad this came out. Ive seen countless people criticize comp shooters for it not being "tactical" and how military shooting is better etc. Like the hate for lucas botkin for example. There's a reason that the big army and marine corps are just now catching on.

[@joemama69448]

People don't hate Lucas Botkin because he's not tactical enough, it's because he's a try hard nerd.

[@potero1944]

Thanks for great video and greetings from Finland 🇫🇮❤🇺🇸

[@russell28533]

I shot on my base's rifle team. We hosted matches and traveled to other bases to compete too. We all thought we were pretty good and better than your average Marine. I shot my first NRA rifle match with my teammates against mostly civilians. We were very quickly humbled. Sorry for the loss of your friend. Edit: I shot USPSA for about 5 years competitively. To add a little context regarding when Jeff says "gamers", he isn't referring to console gaming. But rather how at a certain point, you can "game" or strategize how you take on a stage/match. Though ideally, you can shoot a stage with tactical proficiency (correct use of cover, etc), you may often see your times as a result being below average. You can find opportunities in a stage to do things that will shave seconds off your time, such as reloading while moving to your next shooting position. One of my favorite "gamer" moves was if the stage had a barrier the width of a doorframe, and it was explicitly NOT written in the stage outline, I'd stand on one foot while lifting my other leg hip height and wrapping my foot around the other side of the barricade, while my armpit closest to the barricade would be pressed against it, essentially anchoring my upper body against the barricade. That allowed me to save time switching sides of the barricade to engage targets. I stole that move from Matt Burkett when I saw him shoot a match.

[@reddevilparatrooper]

I started shooting IDPA when I first got out of the Army and into the National Guard where I met a lot of police officers and sheriff guys who were into IDPA back in the early 90s. I learned from regular civilians and law enforcement guys on pistol and revolver handling. Once a month I would do a match, then I did the early 3 gun with my Colt SP1 carbine and Winchester 1200 shotgun. This made me a better shooter on all the Army flat range qualification. The Army pistol pop up targets I smoked that range with no misses and targets got shot as soon as they came up. Also applied the same on the rifle qualification after a proper zero and scored expert. I was also recommended by my commander to shoot for the State Team. I did this for 6 years and it got too much for expenses on gas and ammo and reloading. Years of just flat range quals and infantry live fire training made me stand out as an NCO with better weapons handling skills. Fast forward to Iraq pre-deployment training, my platoon smoked the flat range and the Battle Drill 6 Kill House with proper tactics and fast shooting and accuracy. Competitive shooting does enhance an infantryman's weapon and marksmanship with reflexive instincts.

[@Stoney_AKA_James]

Another great/informative video Jeff

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thanks 👍

[@robc5082]

It's amazing how few leo guys take advantage of our local matches to improve themselves. It's equally amazing that when they do, how few are proficient to even a median level. It's pretty shocking. If your department won't spring for training, you need to take it upon yourself to get training. Also, Super Dave is a trip.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

He is

[@mikaeljonsson2078]

Here in Sweden, the army have been influenced by IPSC competition shooting which have become very popular among civilians here, and taken some of the aspects of that into parts of their training. And I think it's a good thing! Being pressed for time, while taking accurate shots on target gets your adrenaline pumping, and as a competetive shooter, you need to learn how to contain that and focus. Otherwise you'd be DQ:ed for doing something stupid or get a very poor scoring. Plus you have other people watching you run your stage, silently judging your performance, adding to the mental pressure😅 That's why I love doing IPSC, because it's difficult, both from a speed/accuracy standpoint, and the mental game.

[@Heywoodthepeckerwood]

“Yeah,,, but those targets don’t shoot back…” Heard it a million times back in the day as though learning the fundamentals and practicing them in a semi stressful scenario is a bad thing. I always looked at it as not gaming the system and trying to shoot as practically as possible, not using race guns or gear and taking the training with me wherever I went. I also remember a study done by the US Army (can’t site it directly but a Google search will surely find it) where they tested civilian vs US Army trained snipers and they found the civilian marksman to be over 200% more effective. Since then I’ve seen more than a few civilian trainers working with military from time to time. Sorry to hear about your friend Mike. It’s a shame.

[@SuperTFRO]

Outstanding presentation. Sorry for the loss of your friend.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Thank you

[@JaredAF]

Funnily enough I think the best match that reinforces infantry tactics is the Infantry Team Match held every year at the National Matches in Camp Perry. You're set up as a fire team of riflemen in a standard line formation engaging an enemy squad/team with superior numbers and it is a hit or miss event. You do this at 600, 300 and 200 yards I believe. I find this same phenomenon of Military members thumbing their noses at competitions in general to be the same thing that "action sports" shooters do for the traditional bullseye sports, despite those sports' skills being universally applicable to all others.

[@3gungreg]

Great video & interesting perspective. I’m a civilian 3 Gunner. I always wondered what top tier military personnel thought of our sport.

[@isaace8090]

I tried my first 3 gun match at 37PSR back in 2014. It was a humbling experience when I was almost last, but usually scored expert in the M4 and M9 in the Army. I learned quite a bit over the next two years to improve my shooting. I also bring duty gear to the matches as I know I will never be in the top places, so I would rather just have fun and test gear and weapon setups for my own satisfaction. I met a lot of great people during that time, both military and civilian. I try to go to a monthly rifle match here in central Texas that is mostly AK focused, but you can run whatever you want.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

37PSR run by fomer SF guy!

[@isaace8090]

@@ModernTacticalShooting Yep! Frankie yelling at me every match made me a better shooter. He also provided instruction during the matches as he saw the matches as training. I just saw the range is for sale though. Hopefully someone with the same kind of philosophy buys it.

[@CoolestDude38NC]

The classical competition shooting is the stuff run by the CMP. EIC matches, AKA "leg" matches. They have them for both service rifle and service pistol. If you are good you can earn enough "leg points" to become a "Distinguished Rifleman." The U. S. Army AMU is at the forefront of this kind of shooting...its very old school and tedious.

[@glidewell19]

I had no idea you know Kirk Broyles. He is from my hometown, and we actually were on the same flight over to Iraq in 2003.

[@Mrgunsngear]

🇺🇸

[@mrdelaware8]

A friend of mine is spending his retirement from SF competitive shooting. If you're around S.Pines say hi to Todd Adams.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Southern pines about forty minutes from me.

[@AsianTrix]

Looking for the “President’s hundred” tab on that stack in the thumbnail.

[@bpm990d]

Nice thing is that even civilians can earn it, no need to be in the military.

[@marshalllapenta7656]

Question? I wonder who is a better shot? Jeff or Hicock45?

[@rhinooningo2865]

Great video!

[@blakesherry5699]

Great video, where I am I see many instructors from FLETC compete and are better for it. Brendan Souder from RPGI would be good to mention in this video, he is a former SF guy who puts on more matches than anyone that I know of, from USPSA to PCSL to Steel Challenge and Outlaw Matches.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

I try and keep my videos to people I've worked with or have met.

[@maddog46]

I agree and very sorry about your buddy.

[@DFOOSKING]

I first saw Ed Holmeyer in a DVD based around the 2009(?) International Sniper Competition called "Sniper Comp". He was prominently shown and did well. I think their is a LaRue sponsored video that covered a seperate year of said event and Ed and his partner won that year. You can see a trailer for Sniper Comp on KZbin but the entire DVD is not. The LaRue one is on KZbin I believe. I was very sad when I heard that Ed had passed away.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Ed was hardcore

[@Vince-ml9gw]

Jeff, hey I wanted to mention I’m currently reading a book called The Rock Warriors Way by Arno Ilgner. You might find it interesting with regards to the mental aspect of shooting. It is well written and as I’m reading it I can personally see many ways to implement the concepts into many aspects of life. On some ways the concepts are similar to the OODA Loop. I was introduced to the OODA Loop as a Firefighter but again I continue to find applications in many of life’s activities. Thanks again. 🇺🇸

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

Il look into it thanks

[@christophergross5256]

I wish I was able to do your 2 gun match back then in July 2014 but command would not let us.

[@ModernTacticalShooting]

That's a bummer