How Computers Ruined Rock Music

[@ericroll]

Back in the day, Eddie Van Halen was asked when they were going to put out a live album. He said listen to our studio albums, they are essentially live. Ted Templeman said he loved producing for Van Halen because all he had to do was set up the mikes and then hit the record button!

[@michaelrochester48]

Vital Vector but they did put out a live album with Sammy

[@ambiguationdotnet]

@@michaelrochester48 You've completely missed the point of what Vital said. And what this video is about. Congrats.

[@ambiguationdotnet]

@Odell Mateo 😂

[@deathmetaldouglas69]

Michael is an idiot and should have kept his mouth shut in the first place, BRO. No need to argue. Yet if another point NEEDS to be made Templeman never bothered to "produce" the wretched Van Hagar. The first guy to produce Van Hagar was Mick Jones of Foreigner (a band Eddie used to razz back in the '70s as Foreigner was not close to Van Halen live).

[@aienbalosaienbalos4186]

ambiguation you completely missed the point of Michael’s comment, and acted like a jerk. Congrats.

[@nultymusic7758]

I love how half way through, Rick forgot about the video and just started remixing songs lol.

[@NJP76]

...And that is part of the beauty of this video. "Just let the camera roll as I play around and have some creative musical fun." The more of his videos I see, the more I like this guy.

[@mdc53]

It's like a drug. You could see Rick getting excited about some of the changes that he tried. The more he changed, the more excited he got. To me that proved how easy it is to get caught up in the whole quantizing thing. You start with one or two changes where the drums or guitar was badly off, then you start 'fixing' some other parts that were a little ahead or behind, then you decide to quantize the whole track, then you start moving this beat and duplicating this riff and next thing you know you've taken the humanity right out.

[@carpballet]

NultyMusic I noticed that. Luckily I could scrub forward until he got back to the point.

[@priyonjoni]

NultyMusic he sure made ruining rock music look fun

[@curtiseverett1671]

@@mdc53 and then ten years go by and you're like.....hey, where'd my girlfriend go?

[@Wen-ve8nx]

It's really nice to see that someone in the rock world is sharp enough to see this stuff and how disastrous it is for the feel of the music. Many jazz and classical musicians are very conscious of this stuff. A classical musician might consider it rubato or an aspect of phrasing, but very subtle rhythmic variations are often considered the difference between a virtuoso performance and a mechanical performance. When I was at conservatory, my piano teacher once took my metronome away from me. Not that I was using it at the moment, but he could tell that I was following the beat too slavishly. He could tell, without asking, that I was lazily using the metronome as a kind of crutch in my practice. I'm also a drummer. Most of my training is in jazz. In jazz, one of the key things to understand about rhythm is the beat: in most jazz you want the 'and' of the beat to be dead on like in your software, but not so with the beat itself. Learning to land your beats stylishly off of the beat is, in many cases, the difference between a professional and an amateur. I studied with a very fine jazz drummer who made me practice with a metronome, but the click was used as the 'and' of the beat. Like a lot of jazz drummers, I've played with a lot of rock bands here and there. It has become very common for rock bands to use a click to drive live performances. In some cases when the musicianship is a bit borderline, I get it, but this can damage more than it helps in many cases. Auto Tune is also a dangerous tool. As a pianist, I'm well aware of the advantages that stringed instruments, wind instruments, and voice have over a fixed pitch instruments like piano. Small variations in pitch can make a melodic line sound much more natural, e.g., a slightly sharp 7th leading back to the tonic in a major key. It shocking to think that such things might be removed by software. Thanks. This was a truly informative video.

[@moshyura]

I feel like your comment deserves a paywall lol-so much valuable information...plus now I have an overwhelming urge to rewatch Whiplash.

[@Wen-ve8nx]

@@moshyura nothing will change the fact that classical and jazz musicians can play most forms of rock with little effort, while the contrary is nowhere close to being true. There have been a handful of musical geniuses have become rock/country music, but this is uncommon.

[@dr.strawberry5773]

the thing about metronome being used as the "and" is very interesting. umm something ot think about

[@bono894]

Those electronic beats sound horrendous. It’s like a sound effect from an old Atari game.

[@livemoksha]

I know this has been uploaded for some time, but I'd just like to make a random comment. I am not a musician, I am an exercise science professional by trade. This video relates so much to what we consider a healthy cardiac system. We actually want to see Heart Rate Variability (HRV). Basically, we want to see the intervals between heart beats (in miliseconds between each heart beat), as well as the average Heart Rate (in bpm), vary through the day. On a non-scientific note, I assume that is why we love this "groove" and "humanity" in music, they behave just like our hearts and make them skip a beat or two every now and then. Thanks, Rick for such an awesome channel!

[@achintyapradhan2000]

This makes sense

[@alexbyearpiano]

Smartest comment I read today

[@achenarmyst2156]

Similarly we value slight facial asymetries. If you mirror a half face to the opposite side the result looks kinda scary.

[@aleisterbroley900]

Very relevant. Most of the most popular songs in popular music have a BPM that closely matches the average human heartbeat.

[@bencashman1017]

@@TheCarbunkleofTruththis is why I love reggae. I feel that it actually influences my breathing, brainwaves, and heart beat and makes me feel like I’m in a meditative trance.

[@TheArtofGuitar]

I do recall a time when my teenage metal band recorded our "tape" yep tape, and there wasn't a screen to be seen, just reel-to-reel VU meters and faders. Then came ADATS, then PT's. The rest is, I almost said history but the rest is now until A.I. completely take over. :o

[@BC-op1jm]

Dude your channel is awesome! Edit: your teenage metal band video was one of my favorites!

[@vikinglife6316]

4 tracks were awesome. I still have blank cassettes in the package from 1990s. I have vinyl and tapes and the tapes still sound better with a good clean tape player than digital music.

[@ChrisThomasBone]

"Music actually happens in between the grid lines." I'm going to use this quote abundantly in my studio now

[@frederikmarohn6358]

Had a band director that would say something similar: "The art is between the notes"

[@FKA_Skull]

Not if you increase the resolution of the grid lines

Who said that first? Claude Debussy? No, why should he? He had no reason.

[@spoodermattie7546]

@KC Yeah, the title is sensationalist, but if you watched the video then you know there was no hypocrisy. Basically he believes a certain producing technique made music feel robotic and artificial, it has nothing to do with recording method or engineering stuff.

[@BoopyTheFox]

@KC It's not a hypocrisy, you have to adapt to the widespread technologies related to your field of interest and know it to actually keep up your pace. Yeah, it's easier to say "it's just worse now", but this video takes time to explain (even though not really directly) pros and cons of quantization. Only thing i don't like is that the presentation is clickbaity, but gotta be honest, i would rather click on "HOW COMPUTERS RUINED IT OLLOL" than on "what is quantization and why it made instrumental music sound less authentic".

[@petervanrayne5120]

"Look what I can do with this track by Nickleback." *hits Ctrl A, Delete*

[@TubbysWorld4413]

😂

[@crazymulgogi]

Shift Delete please :)

[@geoffbruce1478]

🤣

[@franciscodanconia45]

Then bleach my ears

[@thomascorbett6627]

@@franciscodanconia45 hahahaha

[@antoniasalinas513]

Computers: WE SHALL KILL ROCK Radiohead: OK Computer

[@WickedKnightAlbel]

This is way too clever

[@antoniasalinas513]

@@WickedKnightAlbel ;)

[@brunowinovski2928]

@Mark Down i dont think a got all them if there is three levels of humor.......

[@jackglassmusic1514]

😂👍🏻

[@Meteotrance]

funny fact, they actually using tape machine and a lot of analog gear with few digital stuff for doing that album ^^.

[@3.k]

When my band was recording in a studio in the late 90s, there was a metronome click coming from the tape machine. When we started recording, our drummer had to start over several times, and then he said, "it's not me, the click is off." We couldn't believe it, until the sound engineer noticed that there was a quivering lightbulb above the mixing console. He pulled it out, we started over, and then the drummer was able to play through the songs. Nobody else had noticed that the metronome was off (and if I had noticed, I would not have dared to submit it). Today I wonder, if that drummer was a beat detective himself, or a cyborg. xD

[@dkbrantley5009]

Impressive. I'd love to see something like that done as an experiment to see how many people have the rhythm to notice such a thing.

[@terryloh8583]

Just shows there is no replacement for sheer talent and experience!

[@spiderbabybill]

"I've heard beats… heard beats you people wouldn't believe"

[@spiralflash6169]

Or maybe an excellent drummer with a great sense of rhythm!

[@mojorizen7]

I entered a studio as a young but experienced live drummer for the first time in '89. We used the click as a simple baseline to find the desired tempo and once we found that...bye bye click, i don't need ya. Laid down the drum and bass track together. Hands off. Clicks were used for rhythm sections that couldn't keep time in an obviously awful way. - The sterilization of live recording has killed a lost art and you can hear it everyday in modern music. Sorry young pups, tis a fact.

[@WellsOliver]

May I humbly suggest the occasional 32nd note drift is not the reason Nickelback does not sound as good as Soundgarden or The Police?

[@DanielOakfield]

Wells Oliver hahahahaha fair enough

[@lisellesloan3191]

There first few albums were actually very good and they were excellent live performers. Chad Kroeger made no bones about wanting to be very commercial, though, and the insipid result was later songs like "Rock Star."

[@celestialmonkey]

Seriously, the premise of this video is ridiculous. Sure, there's something to be said for over-quantization.. but it's very far from having ruined rock music lol

[@camw621]

You're gonna have to have us look at a graph while singing the song for us to understand...

[@enviousfred]

@@celestialmonkey Think hes making the point that it is vastly overused since 2001, sort of "dehumanised" some of the songs. If they do cut and paste verses etc. than that is a crap way of producing.

[@nicholaspacelli8180]

Rick sounding like a teacher who Is grading his students after knowing they cheated. Hes proving it to them

[@jerrywright1175]

"Music is what happens between the gridlines." -Rick Beato

[@xpez9694]

syncopation or groove or swing..... yes...

[@rokktopia-remasters]

As the late great George Martin stated in his autobiography "Perfection is boring" !

[@charlie-obrien]

Ringo Starr as a drummer has said the he is naturally left handed, but always played a right handed kit. That sometimes delayed his fills and thus his distinctive (and the Beatles distinctive) sound was created. Take that Microsoft!

[@arneberg9261]

@@charlie-obrien Aha, never knew : like uncase the secret of Ringo ---

[@billhansen9]

I just listened to the white album again. George Martin was a genius! White album is just one example

[@Ogilla]

@The Happy Merchant Having multiple takes doesn’t mean you achieved perfection, it means you achieved what you were searching for. There are probably alot of small imperfections in the White album.

[@brightbite]

This KIND of perfection is boring, yes. When it is computerized tinny sounding crap! Whatever happened to the perfection that happens when a musician has played so much it is like breathing to him?

[@ch3nz3n]

Expecting the computer to make you a good musician is certainly a problem. But DAWs are just digital studios. The computer doesn't push vocals through auto-tune, a mix/engineer/producer does that. Nor does the computer quantize anything until it's told to do so. Digital recording is the BEST thing to happen to music in a long time. It has taken the power OUT of the hands of the labels and studios and given it to the artists. Not to mention the fact that $4000 amp stacks are no longer needed, ultra rare studio equipment is no longer needed and super expensive producers are no longer needed. Digital recording gives an artist the ability to have an entire studio within their grasp for pennies on the dollar while losing very little (if anything) on the final product.

[@ssimon64]

Very good point thanks

[@solidtooo]

Amen to that

[@n.d.m.515]

Then why does modern music sounds so horrible?

[@ch3nz3n]

@@n.d.m.515 TLDR - IMO, modern music SOUNDS really good. Pop music seems to be dropping Xannys right now but productions generally sound better than ever. We're in a cool experimental phase that'll hopefully result in some epic level music. The best part of music is how varied but still accessible it can be. However it's appreciation is always subjective based on preference. Some folks dig Bach. Some prefer Mozart. Some can't stand classical period. Some people like the sound of dirty analog equipment some people don't. If by "modern music", you mean Top 40 - cookie cutter stuff... well, subjectivity plays pretty heavily. The validity of Top 40 pop music can be debated ad nauseam however, the point stands that people ARE spending money or time listening to those artists (as strange as it may be). So modern music must not sound THAT bad. But if you mean that modern music 'production' sounds horrible, I'd have to disagree. Modern productions sound incredible for the most part. We are far beyond the days of cutting grooves in vinyl and listening through a horn. The ability to make music sound anyway we want is limitless and fully able to accommodate every particular taste in... well, every genre. And as it continues to proliferate, it'll get better. The cream always rises to the top. The digital recording thing that's happening right now is a big bombshell in the monumental paradigm shift in the music industry. Pandora's Box has been opened now. Consider this the "holy crap, look what we can do!!!!" phase. But keep this in mind: It's an artist's desire and willingness to push tech and sounds that give us people like Tom Scholz and Devin Townsend. Yeah, there's going to be a metric ass-ton of Cardi B clones because for some reason that crap sells. But if you actively look for good modern music (song and sound-wise), it's easier to find now more than ever. Soundcloud, Bandcamp, Spotify, etc. Pick your favorite genre and just Google it. You'll be surprised. The big shocker for me was metal. Metal ain't paying much right now, so the bands that ARE out there are doing it just to make the music. You can tell too cause some of that stuff crushes!

[@n.d.m.515]

@@ch3nz3n wrong and anyone who knows music and has listened to a wide variety of it knows it. Music these days, no matter what genre, is horrible. It has no soul, it has no class, and it all sounds the same from beginning to end. The only people who don't see that were born after 2000.

[@chadbaker8705]

My buddies spent $$$ to record their album at a "big time" studio, and when they got there, dude made them record everything to a click, wanted to replace their drummer because of tempo drift, and then sliced and diced everything in the mix. When they got the songs back they sounded like radio music, unrecognizable to their fans. Totally killed the music. They thew the album away.

[@farque7179]

That's because the "big time" studio they went to wanted to just run up their bill by taking advantage of them by using the "big time" studio's reputation to dictate. Did they pay them to produce them or to record them?? They needed somebody with balls to say, WE are paying you to record in your studio but WE are producing it, not you so just STFU and be the good trained monkey knob turner to give us top notch sonic quality and we'll produce the songs the way we want, not you. If we like the results, that's all that matters. If you don't like it, we will take our business elsewhere. Been there, done that.

[@vlada]

@@farque7179 I thought the original post was good because it outlined a common problem. You took that up a notch and gave the solution. 👏👏👏

[@mysty0]

@@farque7179 you're talking about non conformity, and when you take that path of resistance these fragile little muppets engage in 3rd grader slander bringing the rest of the weak minded muppets in line with them. Now you try and deal with a new Studio who has a bias towards you and treats you with some animosity and no matter how you present yourself they remain obstinate assholes, the moment you attempt to confront their assholery you only confirm their bias. This is the trash world we live in

[@christopherslaughter2263]

God this problem persists in new heavy metal/thrash/groove. When I play my guitar I have a style, I have a rhythmic signature that nobody else has. Sure I'm influenced by great musicians but who isn't? I do not want my percussive sound taken out of my pick attack while down picking. When alternative pedaling a 8th note my up stroke is just a tad weak. This causes a bit of groove in my playing that I like. Music is not supposed to be perfect.

[@deathmetaldouglas69]

They should have recorded with a "big time" guy like Steve Albini who respects rock bands, does NOT use click-tracks or even computers for that matter. Analog all the way, baby!

[@theopinson3851]

I’ll never understand why people decided that producing music with your eyes instead of your ears was a good idea.

[@adrianpilcher703]

Cheaper

[@RickAP]

Explains everything wrong with modern music 👏👏👏

[@koleary1798]

@@adrianpilcher703 quicker also. Gotta keep churning that mass commodity out!

[@pankfish]

It started out as a good idea. Technology starts as a tool to help humans but eventually all humans will be replaced by technology. Who would have thought that musicians would be among the first to be replaced?

[@kenbarlow65]

Same thing happened with digital consoles in live music. Engineers stopped listening and started futzing with the plug ins. You don’t need a fancy pultec EQ plug in on a snare bottom mic tweeked to the nth degree while ignoring everything else for 5 minutes.

[@iluminati]

As someone who is a hip hop fan, I wonder why rock producers leaned so much on quantizing and Beat Detective. Hip hop producers, led by J Dilla, were known for using the software as an instrument and avoiding quantization. In a weird way, the way hip hop leaned on sampling forced them to understand the beats as opposed to editing live performances to death. I wonder why rock production stopped listening to the actual live performances of the musicians.

[@OZKitchen]

This is insightful and thought provoking

[@joshuaclabeaux1470]

You and me both; I think it had to do with corporatism and "assembly lining" the production process as Rick mentions here. Fortunately, hip-hop record producers didn't have this mentality and ACTUALLY SHARE the creative mentality of the artists. Now if only we could bring in Rock producers who think like the artists they sign!

[@missunique65]

Hip hop sounds pre-chewed - there is no spontaneity - they sound like human machines. Nothing is NUANCED. Look it up, kid.

[@frankmarsh1159]

Back in the day some rappers used loops of real drummers. But most hip-hop today is programmed and quantized. Trap is all programmed. Hardly any real musical instruments in rap or R&B. That's why is has no soul. Don't know why they still call it R&B. R&B used to be soul music. Computers don't have any soul.

[@AndreasDevig]

​@@Cryo837 True, but so is Rock music. It sucks. Always did.

[@aleisterbroley900]

What's worse is, today's young musicians are learning to play like this, following along to soulless computerized music, expecting nothing less than rigid, soulless perfection from themselves. I've been listening to a lot of isolated tracks from classic metal and rock albums lately, and noticing just how perfectly imperfect they were in isolation, but came together as a whole to create magic. But you look at guitar and bass lessons on KZbin, or people's covers, what have you, and they're striving and beating themselves up for a "perfection" that never existed.

[@Dowlphin]

Spiritually radically (arguably a redundant term) speaking, it is the fear-driven power trip of unprocessed trauma that closes the heart and seeks escapism from that in glorifying the mind imbalance. We basically have uninjured bodies walking around with battery-powered crutches because it's easier.

[@experi-mentalproductions5358]

John Lennon's bass work on Helter Skelter is a great example of that. I don't think he gets it right once...

[@snapsnappist4529]

@@experi-mentalproductions5358 Though not as bad as his bass on The Long and Winding Road. That's some appalling bass playing. Though not as bad a Chris Hillman's bass flub on Feel a Whole Lot Better.

[@snapsnappist4529]

It's the equivalent of "pixel peeping" in the digital photography world; obsessing over tiny irrelevant imperfections and not paying attention to the bigger picture, which is the only thing that matters. Thing is, _all_ isolated instruments sound shoddy outside the context of the full band/song. Love Spreads by the Stone Roses has a tight driving groove and the band is totally on it, but listen to the isolated tracks. Mani's bass, which is tight and punchy on the record, is flubby and loose on the isolated track. A modern producer would "fix" this and would kill the groove and feel.

[@gregorymccasland2874]

“It sounds like a sequencer, because it’s a sequencer.” Priceless.

[@creativeheadroom]

That little pause in between really emphasizes it, hahahaha :P

[@SH-th4wy]

Gregory - I was gonna echo the SAME line! That is some dry biting commentary.... unless you like it that way... :-|

[@ericarmstrong7906]

ya best line for sure

[@Cantor214]

All this machinery Making modern music Can still be open-hearted Not so coldly charted It's really just a question Of your honesty, yeah, your honesty Rush - Spirit of the Radio

[@djacobmadrigal]

Can be. Keys words here. Not guaranteed to be open hearted.

[@RonZabrocki]

What you are demonstrating is the very reason I got out of producing. Every vocal had to be tuned, every drum had to locked to a click. People mixed with their eyes. Screw that. Plus the format! Every song had to have the same format. Love your vids. This one brought back my anxiety and hate. Thank you! Lol.

[@autohmae]

well, music is a commodity now, maybe even the cost of doing business for bands. The money is in live performances and merchandise, etc. All my current favorite bands, I have my favorite live performances for songs instead of the album versions. The album version has usually been a casualty of the loudness wars anyway. Used to be vinyl was good because you can't master it that way on vinyl, from what I hear now vinyl is just a larger copy of the CD. Not sure what they do.

[@kidwajagstang]

I honestly don’t know if it’s appropriate to give this a thumbs up. It’s sad that the way that digital workstations ended up being used got you to leave the production world.

[@classicallpvault8251]

Ignore all this autotune and Beat Detective crap and approach the DAW as a musical instrument with new and previously impossible possibilities, rather than a digital toolkit to make doing 1990s stuff easier. Computers make rock music BETTER if used correctly - to the point of allowing one to incorporate a complete symphony orchestra if one posesses Native Instruments Kontakt and the right libraries, as well as a PC with 32 or even 64 GB of RAM. Only if you approach recording digitally with the mindset of the 1990s this problem occurs. Why make the sound of the band a slave to the DAW rather than the opposite? Try to think like Mike Shinoda or Liam Howlett or the engineer of Rammstein. Use the computer to your advantage. And perhaps learn a thing or 2 about synthesis and sound design that is less usual in rock than in electronic music. Try and incorporate production techniques from drum and bass, trance, or even Daft Punk in your stuff. Rock would be so much better if people used DAWs to expand rather than limit how a band sounded.

[@classicallpvault8251]

@@autohmae Music was a commodity well before the first rock and roll or even proto rock and roll emerged. It was already the case in the 19th century when sheet music rather than recordings were the main medium of monetising music. Hell, it was an issue already in the era of Mozart and Beethoven, right when the first modern-ish publishing deals were signed (there's even correspondence of several 19th century composers, including superstars like Chopin, complaining about being ripped off by publishing houses or complaining about bad arrangements made for amateurs of difficult compositions they wrote)

[@autohmae]

@@classicallpvault8251 Sure.of course, just saying selling music (CD,vinyl, etc.) for bands doesn't pay the bills anymore. The near zero marginal cost of digital media...

[@alexanderbrand2048]

What you're actually saying is that Rock Musicians and studio people ruined their own music by using computers the wrong way. Agreed

[@bassinblue]

Musicians like Pink Floyd and The Who dabbled with electronic contraptions, but obviously couldn't do much because of the limitations. Even they were using it the right way. Computers should aid music, not dictate it.

[@kylehart8829]

I've gotta go with Geddy Lee on this one: "all this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted". The issue you're talking about is the fault of bad sound engineers, not the computers themselves.

[@PolNqn]

well duh... computers can't think for themselves. Yet.

[@mcharlesnofsinger8942]

Neil Peart?

[@robbymata4831]

That's a good quote from Lee 👌

[@farque7179]

You mean bad producers. They are responsible for the outcome, not the engineer. George Martin produced the Beatles while guys like Geoff Emerick had the engineering duties on several of their albums.

[@juliusroescher]

Neil Peart wrote the lyrics for that song

[@jaimev.1387]

Rick: Beat Detective has killed Rock Music Also Rick: let me show you how to use Beat Detective

[@relaxingsounds1386]

right? lol!!

[@alexbyearpiano]

Know Your Enemy. (...and yeah, RATM related...)

[@Larry821]

Beat Detective makes it sound better than it really is. Think I’ll call it Beat Cop.

[@CarloNassar]

That's part of explaining how it works. Sometimes, you have to show what you're talking about.

[@aleisterbroley900]

Also gets sucked into flying different samples around every song, far past making any point, just playing. Now we see why it's so insidious-- there's something in the brains of recording engineers and musicians that responds to it like catnip lol

[@Mister006]

I blame Nashville. Notice how all country music started sounding the exact same around the same time. Started in the late 1990s.

[@MistressOP]

except the dixie chicks

[@Blaqjaqshellaq]

Blame Shania Twain.

[@MistressOP]

@@Blaqjaqshellaq I don't .. there are people who did worst.

[@cirenosnor5768]

Or is what happened to Nashville a example of the “product” of the problem

[@soulcrusher807]

No I never noticed but I like my ear drums and do not subject them to that genre.

[@pabloyelpo707]

"It just sounds like a squencer... 'cause... it's a sequencer" - BEST LINE EVER

[@nncoco]

I happened to read this at the exact moment he said it. That was freaky!

[@prpwnage9296]

Thing is it isn't tho. You can see the parts are different

[@foxyme5845]

This is the most I've ever listened to Nickelback😂

[@redhotlizard2636]

Funny how Rick can make even Nickelback sound interesting by looking at this graph.

[@PhilipPedro2112]

Oh, that's who they are? I recognize the vocalist. Always hated his voice. He sounds pretentious with contrived, fake grittyness on his voice. Friends of mine who have poor musical taste love Nickelback.

[@zachemorgan]

@@PhilipPedro2112 hmm actually nickelback was great I would say this video explains why people hate them because they were of the first bands that got big while music was being produced this way.

[@MobiusBandwidth]

me too as far as I know I've never heard them before at all.

[@0000song0000]

So, this explains why we hate Nickelback... It sounds like a plastic version of rock

[@PantsComedy]

If the goal was to make everything in perfect time and movable with a drum machine why have a drummer at all. just use the drum machine?

[@robertjameson4101]

Pants420 Drummers can be more expressive for certain songs than drum machines and fit better for certain types of parts/songs... and vice versa

[@kostantinos2297]

I'd also imagine the it would hurt a band's public image not to have a drummer, and indirectly admitting how much they rely on technology. A drummer or a percussionist is (rightly) considered a fundamental element of a band. Someone must play during live performances too.

[@lewiswilliams1893]

Someone's still gotta be the butt of all the other musicians' jokes. Hard to rag on a machine.

[@AlDunbar]

@@lewiswilliams1893 they'll have to replace bassists in addition to drummers, then. Same for banjoists, accordionists, and perhaps players of other niche instruments. Of course I like all of those instruments, so grateful to be able to squeeze my butt plug in here. ;-)

[@chaos.corner]

Someone has to drive the van.

[@jonathanwingmusic]

10:55 *uses Nickelback as an example* I'm pretty sure the quantization isn't the only problem with Nickelback's music

[@tissuepaper9962]

Unpopular opinion: Nickelback really isn't that bad.

[@splatsquatch3934]

made my day haha

[@royalkepp1]

@@tissuepaper9962 realistic opinion; they aren't really good enough to warrant their sales and celebrity. They are just ok. Bread Rock.

[@marvinm.messier1120]

not really @Jorgekg

[@blueguitar4419]

It is a part of why however

[@jaaceetee]

“Music actually happens in between the grid lines”.... LOVE IT!!!

[@fleshTH]

That's a T-Shirt!

[@christopheroliver148]

I've usually put it: "the pocket's not on the grid."

[@roderickstaples127]

Similar to what Debussy said, “Music is the space between the notes.”

[@davewalsh3885]

@@christopheroliver148 Throw it on the computer and kill the back beat.

[@paulpsycho78]

This explains why all these bands sound so bad live. The records are an unattainable proxy for the band

[@JonnyJayJonson]

Which bands specifically?

[@anthonyaccurate]

Thats an excellent point I don't think the industry realizes.

[@renefrijhoff2484]

If you say really all bands with no exceptions I can prove you wrong.

[@jacklarson6281]

I was thinking the same thing. if a band needs all that augmentation to sound good, how the hell would they be able to play live?? unless of course, they pulled a Milli-Vanilli...

[@lrvogt1257]

I'm not saying you're wrong about mediocre musicians but logically, a band could as easily sound better live because they aren't being computer modified.

[@Unimatrix69]

Quantisation of human played music is the instant coffee of music - almost like the real thing, but somehow it's not quite right.

[@Larry821]

Good analogy but it’s actually much more distasteful than instant coffee.

[@r4mbl3r]

I always considered it more like fairy floss and McDonalds compared to restaurants (professionally produced real music) or home cooking (indi rock and garage bands)

[@Invisible-Rhino]

@@r4mbl3r and now we have the idea that potatoes are ugly and less than perfect cos they don't look like fast-food fries, that natural singing voices are "imperfect" if their pitch-accuracy is not 100% spot-on and all right-angles,,, give me natural wood, real potatoes, and un digitally-tamed singing please!

[@midnight-2021]

@@Invisible-Rhino exactly!

[@KingKong-mp6gj]

Imagine being a drummer who has honed his skills for years and has spent thousands of dollars on his drumkit just to get his recordings treated by the beat detective. I would probablly just walk into the studio, hit every piece of the kit 2-3 times and leave right ahead calling it a day and grabbing a cold one.

[@pangometersen8834]

Yup 😄

[@TheAerovons]

It's not just that, it's that many of those expensive drums you are using get replaced with samples, or added samples to your snare sound, etc, to make them bigger or more impactful in some ways. Depending on the genre, and the producer, sometimes only a section or a bar here and there can be quantized and you leave the rest alone. Differs depending on the song and the final intent. Sometimes just the bass and kick drum will be quantized in some parts, etc. It's not always all or nothing...

[@lvl1cpu523]

It's sad because Arejay Hale is actually an extremely energetic and theatrical drummer.

[@pangometersen8834]

I'm a singer and I just realized that this is actually how I am expected to work 😂🙈

[@pangometersen8834]

I'm a singer and I just realized that this is actually how I am expected to work 😂🙈

[@stephanevermette145]

If John Bonham had been "quantized" Led Zeppelin would have never made it out the door.

[@loganfinn2728]

I'm sure his talent would still have shown through. I am certain that quantization couldn't have made it any better though

[@julianburmeister9489]

But maybe in through the out door?

[@jonathankeith524]

John Bonham is one of the best drummers ever in my opinion. Even listening to his drumming, I can tell the timing isn't perfect. But that's what makes it seem more alive and organic. And likewise, Jimmy Page is one of the best guitarists. He misses notes sometimes. But every one of his solos has an emotion and a story behind the notes.

[@ulvikasap]

Julian Burmeister noice 👍🏻

[@DavidTheOwl]

Neil Peart entered the chat

[@RockandRollWoman]

John Paul Jones explains it in a way that any idiot can understand: "I remember hearing a cover of Stairway to Heaven by an American group called Great White. They'd obviously used a click track, and by the end of it you'd lost the will to live. Because the real version SPED UP. Which is a musical dynamic. Acceleration is a musical dynamic! And it needed to speed up!" Quote from Geddy Lee's Big Beautiful Book of Bass - a compendium of the rare, iconic, and weird

[@nikoyochum6974]

and that speed up was an intentional musical decision by Jimmy when he was writing Stairway. He was previously a session musician prior to The Yardbirds and Zep and wanted to write something that "broke" the rules of being a session guitarist

[@thehugemoby1780]

i can agree with that the song needed to speed up but i don't see a reason to not like a click. they are a must for a lot of genres of music [any prog band really]. and you can use a click to speed up and slow down.

[@robbieclark7828]

Rick opens the 16th note grid: “Look at this graph...”

[@MeshuggahFan-iy6tb]

Underrated comment! 🤣🤣

[@fundymentalism]

watch Rick casually, accidentally, improve songs during an object lesson

[@NoizeTank]

I’m confused by this video. I’m being told quantized audio is bad but then I’m being shown cool things you can do with quantized audio lol

[@markwlewisonutube]

Noize Tank maybe the key would be to record some scratch tracks, do a mix and then re-record it live, as in the early mix.

[@MushVPeets]

Makes sense to me. Illustrates both what's wrong, and why it's done. It's not just a bad decision, it's a _trap_ - and a well-baited trap at that.

[@timhays332]

Ah, but we all saw it in real time (reel time?) -- Rick got so caught up in the magic of the software, that he got into a huge sidetrack of editing. IT'S A DRUG, PEOPLE! And highly addictive. I guess I already suspected that, but now I saw if for myself.

[@Revolution1117]

@@MushVPeets Exactly, and it sounds like Noize Tank just took the bait. LOL!

[@georgeplunkitt5565]

The point was to show how easy it is to do, and also how it's kind of hard to resist. But doing so takes all the feel out of the band and makes it sound pretty bland.

[@squarebot8028]

i like how he hated on it but then started having fun quantizing the drums and bass lmaooo lesgettit rick

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

I have to admit, I would love to be able to fool around with tracks like that. But just because it is fun to produce does not mean that it is fun to listen to.

[@wbiro]

He showed how non-musicians can have a creative musical outlet with computers, the end result usually being 'remixes', and even those are at the mercy of artistic tastes (which are usually bad, but that is also true with 'real' music)...

[@maxonmendel5757]

Yeah man I wanna hear him put out the Beato remixes of a bunch of old tracks

[@markwilding3828]

The point being, that it took him about a second and a half to improve the song.

[@markwilding3828]

@Andrei Georgescu The thing about electronic music is, it's not pretending to be human music. You listen to computer generated music and accept the icy sterility and synthetic sound waves are part of the nature of it. When you listen to modern rock, the mind is confounded because you hear the sounds that humans make, yet are still left with a sense of cold emptiness because you are unaware that you are actually listening to the product of a soulless machine

[@prongATO]

I actually wondered why my love for finding new rock and metal bands died in about 2010, now I know.

[@dondavinci2183]

Did the computer ruin rock music or did the producer/ Artist / record labels/ higher ups that control music, change rock music? Don't blame the computer, man.

[@RickBeato]

True Don

[@somemovingpictures]

Amen. The sole fault with computers in music, or any any field for that matter, is that they do exactly what they are told to do by humans.

[@SrSacaninha]

Good point.

[@FamousByFriday]

I’m also curious what role the general public played. Was there demand for this? If made to listen to a quantatized song and an unquantatized song, which would people prefer?

[@dlambethful]

@@kawmic7 His point was that computers are taking the Groove and feel out of music, you cannot argue the truth in that.

[@1gammis]

For me, computers gave me the oppertunity to finally play and record all my rock ideas. I didn't have the luxury of a band that stucked together back in the day. :)

[@Swanlord05]

Should have used the spell check on your computer for this comment you dunce

[@MCOGroupNews]

@@Swanlord05 Do you feel powerful pointing out typos on the internet, pal?

[@deadheadliving]

We all need the computer bro including the author himself,i guess all he meant to point out by using the term computer was automation and the present overkill in production level by engineers and the race for perfection.

[@jeffdubuque5622]

@@Swanlord05 easy pal.

[@willissudweeks1050]

I agree that they are a great addition and really useful to music but at the same time it’s pretty lame to “fix” EVERYTHING you play with a computer though.

[@TheLookingGlassAU]

To paraphrase Dave Mustaine - playing a riff then cut n pasting it a few times isn't metal.

[@TheLookingGlassAU]

@Ken Nuppenau i dont think that means anything in regards to what i wrote. Rock on.

[@Abruzzo333]

All of your favorite bands likely record and arrange in a computer.

[@willissudweeks1050]

@@Abruzzo333 That’s fine but I still sure wish they would actually play it through instead of copy and pasting though. Of course they use a computer haha

[@DavidTheOwl]

“If you hear NICKELBACK backwards you will hear demonic music, even worse, if you play it forwards you will hear NICKELBACK”

[@TVQuickFlix]

Dave Grohl is a savage lel

[@daviddavidsonn3578]

The absolute madman

[@kellywelch641]

Ha..... good comment I feel the same 😝

[@wymanrtaylor]

This comment needs WAY more love

[@theaquariuschannel666]

Is that true?

[@AspenTruth]

It’s not as easy as “the computers did it”. I worked with more than a few producers in my youth who simply wouldn’t let bad time and bad intonation get the thumbs up on a take. And I’ve been the producer on enough albums that had the “A List” guys on them - and when I looked at their tracks after the session, I could literally see how good their time was. This is actually an issue of time management, budget, patience, and musical expertise - or a combination of some of these factors. If the singer’s good enough or the budgets big enough, you can get the job done. If not, technology can save the day. Just because a human sings it or plays it does not make it fab. It’s the degree to which the human has the requisite ability to make it right - which of course is in the eye of the beholder, I know. Having said that, even before I knew what good time and good intonation was (as a child), I knew what sounded right to my ears. It was never bad timing or bad intonation. And yes, the grid is great for some things and not for others. The bottom line is use your ears, get what you need on “tape” (yeah, I know), and if you don’t have unlimited time or resources, use what you can to make it happen. I think the biggest mistake is using anything indiscriminately. I seen people use the quantize randomize function and say, “yeah, that make it sound more real”. It doesn’t. Players lay back and rush with purpose, not haphazardly so. 2 Cents...

[@thomasniehof6333]

There is a big difference between slaving away to perfect your craft and get the best timing/intonation that's humanly possible vs. artificially 'enhancing' the life out of a performance. That's exactly the point of this video. Listen to the drums from the soundtrack song. They were perfect before the processing with beat detective. After the life was gone.

[@AspenTruth]

Thomas Niehof artificially enhancing a performance is exactly why Bohemian Rhapsody is the amazing track that it is. It is NOT four guys going into a studio, rolling the tape and getting the track done like a Capitol Frank Sinatra record date. The technology at hand and the use/abuse of it helps create new paradigms. Some of it crap, some of it brilliant and everything in between.

[@kitekrazee]

The days are gone when a band took 3 years to produce an album.

[@wbiro]

"Players lay back and rush with purpose" - and, thinking deeper, that 'purpose' is 'heartbeat' - where tempo follows the heartbeat - some things naturally speed it up, others slow it down...

[@HelloIDontKnowMyName]

@Blake West Disgusting. Why couldn't they use a REAL choir like the good days instead of these weird tape technologies? Back when people composed REAL music.

[@remoteportal]

This gives new meaning to being "off the grid."

[@rayva1]

Lol!

[@MrPotatoMind]

Yey!

[@simontunnicliffe2107]

🤣

[@geetarbube]

I don’t mind drum machines like the LinnDrum or an 808 if that’s what I want to listen to. I know what I’m getting going in. If I’m listening to a band that has a drummer, I want that groove and feel. Thanks for another interesting video, Rick.

[@netgoat]

It makes a big difference if the beat is laid down and the rest of the musicians play to that beat. The big trouble happens when everything is artificially locked to the same click.

[@SirenaWF1]

@The Tired Horizon I stopped DJing (market really) and producing EDM for the most part as everything began to sound the same.

[@keykrazy]

It's fitting that you mention the LinnDrum drum specifically, as it had a certain rhythmic feel to it that was due to the processor speed not always allowing for it to be rock-solid in it's synchronization. I've heard old(er) heads talk about how they miss the "feel" of certain classic drum machines, the LinnDrum being the one most cited. (I think the Roland CR-78 might be another, but i could never afford one so can't speak from experience. My E-Mu Drumulator sure seems to have a feel to it; i bet if i laid the output of it to a grid at the same BPM it wouldn't be right dead on the lines, either.)

[@discern7544]

The Linn has a great sound, you could just sample the drums individually turn of the quantize and play them any way you like.

[@bnwls436]

"They make the machines doing the recording now and I think that takes a lot away from real music. They got buttons that can play bass, buttons that can play whatever you play, and I don’t think that’s really what music is supposed to be." -Muddy Waters in 1981

[@thaconnection8201]

I love Muddy but I think that's an outdated take. These "machines" have made music more accessible to create and I think that's ultimately a good thing. You no longer have to be a multi-instrumentalist, virtuoso or invest a lot in having other musicians play things for you. You still can and it's better to have that choice

[@tridibbiswas3824]

@@thaconnection8201 you do realise that if you’re not good at music you can just take another path or instead put in the time and effort and learn the instrument and master it, music isn’t something you do because you like it and to gain fame, you do it because you’ve a genuine love for it and is the only thing you can think of. What you’re saying is like saying if you wanna be a footballer just get prosthetic legs so that you can be the next big thing in football

[@bezoticallyyours83]

Laptops and the like are fine if you're an electronica musician, or a musician composing for videogames, certain movie genres, or if you want to add some creepy or spacey sound effects. Before laptops it was synthesizers after all. But it's never okay for most organic genres of music.

[@Darkbirdy]

First off, I agree with your point completely. With that said, I don't think you really showed your conclusion in this video. You showed what the software can do. The video was largely examples of how it can change the music. What you didn't do is demonstrate how it is objectively inferior to the unprocessed music. And again, I agree with your conclusions, and I agreed before I started watching. I just don't think you proved it to others in this video. What would have really sold it would have been a few 'before and after' examples. Take a few songs that are expressive, quantize them, and play the samples back to back. The warm organic next to the cold mathematical. That contrast is what is really needed to make your point.

[@barnicletoast]

I thought thats what I was going to be watching.

[@hightreason]

I don't think he is implying it's objectively inferior

[@hightreason]

@@tiki_trashIt's different. That's my take on it anyway. It's like comparing orchestral music to rock. But yeah if it's not you're thing fair enough. I feel that you can't really compare electronic music to analog cause it's just a totally different ballpark. But in cases like pink floyd, it really did great things.

[@hightreason]

@@tiki_trash I agree, I was using them more as an example of something in the middle. A better example would be tame impala i guess

[@mattkeefer1293]

His point is that tempo and music itself is subjective. That's what makes it what it is.

[@DroneCorpse]

@Rick Beato, you should now do an episode of J.Dilla and his M.P.C and how the anti-quantization movement started in R&B/Soul/Funk music.

[@ARZiehm]

Such an overdone topic tbh

[@imdone8243]

Im confused though.. Of course the lets say "popular music" world, needs to be perfect everywhere and same patterns and so on. So that they will have an easy formula for an actual popular song like how despacito became a meme.. But making your own music and not for companies, you dont need to be perfect? Its not everywhere in the music production business right? I know lo fi producers kind of unquantatize things, warp pitch add noise and sound effects and very raw conversations or singing with all the tsk fpp and imperfections. Even with electronic. Making a seemingly random glitch effect or synth that goes out random a lot. So there is a difference with the "popular music" and the other music the people like right? In a way I would maybe guess, its human nature to try and have no imperfections, making that same habit the most imperfect thing thats aplplied. You can see it in the classical music scene. Play it nearly as perfect as it is composed, even rated on how close they do..

[@Minivanmusician]

Soooo true

[@rustyhguitar1]

I was tangentially involved in a live recording for a worship CD some time ago (running mons for the live band). The producer afterward proudly told everyone how he had to “fix” EVERY drum beat by quantizing. I was, and am still, horrified.

[@JMSiwczynski]

I had simillar experience... this people should be baned from music community! :-D

[@sephardim4yeshua155]

If you have heard five klove songs you can stop, because they are all based on five songs recorded a few years before and before......... then quantized to death.

[@RedVynil]

What's a klove song?

[@JMSiwczynski]

@@RedVynil I guess its K-love, christian radiostation

[@RedVynil]

Got me! I haven't a clue!

[@aalbert78]

Everyone who was lucky to start listening to music before the 00s felt that something awkward happened in mainstream pop rock music after that point. It wasn't so much that songs were getting uninspired as that they conveyed a feeling of fakeness. It was a product of loud mastering, vocal fixing with auto tune, and now this, drum/rhythm "quantization", and I guess other tricks. A feeling that music production got streamlined. No wonder that in this same period, fringe genres like death metal increased their popularity. It was somewhere you could still find music played by humans. It was all about greed. But this is only 50% of the story. Why younger listeners kinda dropped the baton, the other 50% of the story, is more complicated. I think it still wasn't their fault, I mean what could they have done when music became merely one product among many defining a teen's life (social media hype, fashion, games, hip hop/rnb) and all that in an environment of social fragmentation.

[@nickmcgeary2462]

A bigger picture of that matter. Very interesting

[@guillaumeduvert9316]

15:42 "it just sound like a sequencer, cause it's a sequencer"

[@bnjmnwst]

Best line in the entire video.

[@markmcmyn8967]

YEAH!

[@edstoica]

had to play it twice. (couldnt believe that he really said that)

[@IndieMusicAcademy]

Saying it like it is! lol

[@nicholasparis5281]

"Beat Detective Killed the Groove, where Autotune Killed the Humanity!"

[@AndreyFadeev-rw3jx]

@Mike Oliver We can't rewind we've gone too far...

[@danjackson7402]

It would have been interesting to quantize something like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and compare it side-by-side with the original.

[@FreddieHg37]

People have already done it before, you can look it up here on KZbin

[@mythillogic]

Funny you should mention that because that's the album I thought of when Rick was saying at the end here that the quantization on computer is what killed rock, but Nirvana was made to record 'Nevermind' track-by-track instead of 'together' by producer Butch Vig so he could have maximum control of the mix himself. Nirvana were used to playing live, and they hated the process and the results according to what I've heard.

[@AlexAnteroLammikko]

Oh god, I think seeing that would make Kurt shoot himself all over again

[@FreddieHg37]

@@Fazer_600 I'll look for the video, I think it's in Spanish though…

[@thesubaortics2744]

i've heard something similar. it sucks

[@50srefugee]

One of my favorite recordings is classical, a piano concerto I sometimes see described as "an old warhorse". The pianist is...mid-twentieth century. And in one of the movements, he sounds like he is staggering across the keyboard, searching for the right note in the instant before his finger hits the key. And it is perfect. Every note, in exactly the right place, at exactly the right time, delirious with joy and beauty. It is ALIVE because it is not perfect by the metronome, but perfect by the genius of the pianist. With every single note written down on the staff two hundred years ago, no control over pitch, and having to not let the orchestra get lost, he improvises the exact timing and the dynamics of each note. Rock and roll is all about improvisation, a trick you cannot do with a fifty piece orchestra. But the two tools Rick describes here strips that element out completely, strips out the life, the joy, the beauty, and turns it all into a music box.

[@PaulAshley]

I'm glad I found this. I'm a solo acoustic singer and guitarist who has always had a tough time keeping a single tempo going. I've had people tell me I need to practice with a metronome, but when attempting to determine the "correct" tempo by running a metronome against recordings of, say, James Taylor, I could never find a single speed. Now I know why ... and why it's okay to be that way.

[@pavle988]

Paul Ashley i can say the same thing when i was playing in a band

[@the_bottomfragger]

I can imagine the frustration. One piece of advice: Don't just always practise with metronome, it will shut off your inner sense of rhythm instead of training it. Use it only to analyse your recordings or maybe use it on offbeats occasionally. Maybe this helps!

[@shashanksherkar392]

Tempos keep on changing in a song and you can create simple drum tracks using Hydrogen drum machine which is not a DAW but a perfect companion for a one man band like me. Apply this quantization to KISS's any song and you will find that how it sucks but the guitarists were always in sync with the drummer to create the best music. Now it is just a repetition!

[@DangerIsMyMiddleName]

Not exactly: if certain parts are slightly ahead, then a slow song will sound fast, or vice versa, but the musicians absolutely have to keep the same tempo (although it can purposely change). If not then the danger is that in the "ahead" examples, the band will keep speeding up and vice versa. These work, because the musicians are excellent. So keep practicing with a metronome, and then practice keeping the tempo, but singing behind or ahead consistently. The effect will blow your mind. To be sure: you are probably already better than I will ever be, but this is something that I remember from college Jazz training, that's worth sharing.🎺🐈👍

[@geoffallan3804]

For years the goal in the studio was precision, but once the tools made everything precise the goal became "dirtying it up". The problem is that too many engineers and producers never understood that exact thing... imprecision is music. In other words, because analog tape and FX were inherently imprecise, in order to get a clean, marketable sound you needed as much accuracy as possible, but you were always working with people and equipment that would never actually allow you to reach complete accuracy. Now we know what happens when you achieve complete accuracy, and it's boring and soulless.

[@nickhaldin8674]

Geoff Allan absolutely. I’m always talking to other bedroom producers about why analog stuff is so great. The imperfection. That’s pretty much it, distilled as simply as possible. That’s why I like to use a mixture of digital and analog, best of both worlds.

[@AspenTruth]

Geoff Allan what does the inaccuracies of analog’s reproduction of sound have to do with the human performance, specifically where time and intonation are the subject?

[@nickhaldin8674]

TremblingGiant The workflow is totally different, forcing you to get it right, often taking multiple takes. People who can’t play their part on a song start to finish need not apply. If you have to rush art, you probably shouldn’t be making it. The imperfection of analog creates interesting workarounds in particularly industrious people. I won’t go Into the numerous ways that is so, but suffice to say that tone, workflow, and performance are all affected. Some may say affected in a positive way, some may say it’s affected in a negative way. The point is, the inaccuracies (or imperfections) of both the performer and the medium add up to create sonically interesting characteristics that are lost when everything is plugins, quantized, and/or lazily written. And these days, so much IS plugins and quantization that the merits of (at least a little) analog injection into the process is so overwhelmingly obvious.

[@AspenTruth]

Nick Haldin I understand your point now. The workflow can indeed be different, for those who did not cut their teeth on tape. Not waiting for the tape to rewind, or for the second machine to catch up to the SMPTE code is not something that I particularly miss. I also do not miss finding the offsets to fly backgrounds from tape machine B to tape machine A - or better still, endlessly making China Marks on the 2 Track so that I can start the tape on beat 1 a bar before I need to fly in the mixed-down package of “whatever I’m trying to fly around” just to get the feel exactly right. I’ve been participating in this recoding world since 1974, so I’ve seen what a few technological advances can do for a budget and a schedule. And unfortunately, while I might agree with you on the statement “people who can’t play their part on a song start to finish need not apply”, that doesn’t fly in the real world - especially if you make the decision to remain viable in this field. Thank you for the clarification nonetheless, I do agree with the sentiment.

[@nickhaldin8674]

TremblingGiant yeah I totally see what you mean, the difficulties that come with analog. That’s why I feel fortunate to live at a time where one can pick and choose how they work. It is a constant balancing act of authenticity and not wanting to do take #472😂 punching in and out of tape is a NIGHTMARE 😬 working in a hybrid way has so many benefits, best of both the analog and digital ways.

[@jamesrossmusic6013]

How in hell did you get the original studio unmixed recording trax for these songs? Now that video would be very interesting!!!

[@14yearoldclassicrockexpert95]

Agreed!

[@JamesMurphyProducer]

Mostly they are taken from the Guitar Hero stems

[@arturoacosta6583]

The man knows people,in high places,does that answer your question?

[@joeskis]

There's gotta be software that analyzes songs and breaks the tracks up.

[@JakeBabineauMusic]

@@joeskisjoeskis hahaha definitely not. That would be like trying to extract the eggs out of fully baked cake. Once it's mixed together you can't do much! He definitely either scoured the internet or more likely just knows the right people. Rick has actually recorded a ton of hit songs and has Grammys so it's easier for him than most!

[@daviddieter821]

“Sounds just like a sequencer, cause, well,, It is a sequencer.” Rick Beato. Luv this guy!

[@gregorymccasland2874]

I said this 3 months too late...beat me to it.

[@MrEd6066]

Would this explain why a live performance, well recorded, is better - more engaging than a studio recording?

[@GOAT-rl2uq]

Honestly IMO this even applies to some older recordings. I think Pantera's performance at Monsters of Rock in Moscow (1991) sounded better than any of their albums. That said, I don't know what kind of post-production was done on the live recording, so I might be talking out of my ass.

[@politicalGRAFFITI]

Locking to the grid as well as being overly clean/isolated instruments.

[@slavesforging5361]

For the past 15 years or so... kinda. almost any live performance from any professional level (contracted & signed) band is going to be playing along to samples, backing tracks, and cues. almost nobody just gets up an plays anymore. the guitar/drum techs are such a big part of any show now. probably the place where your idea holds up is that all the musicians are actually playing together and feeding off each others' (and the crowds) energy. rather than one guitar being played at a time to an annoying computerized click. then stacking it with another guitar played along with an annoying computerized click. and another, and another, etc. the effect you (and all of us) are hearing is probably (i'm not a live sound guy, just guessing) a simpler mix, with mic bleed (ie, the drum mics picking up some of the guitar half stack and vice versa), room ambience, loudness!, crowd energy, and... well a lot of people drink or smoke at shows, so i'm just gonna say it... beer. but you'd be surprised just how much 'energy' a large room can add to a recording. or any room at all. lot of using a digital reverb computer program to simulate a room mic these days. but the chaos of a real room is where the unknown energy is at!

[@juanmanueltrujillo6478]

in a lot of cases they'll edit the live recordings quite a bit as well

[@mikewallace1270]

Don’t be fooled they do the same thing to “live” recordings

[@danielbyrne763]

Rick, I couldn't agree more. I started a home digital studio in 1991 with early digidesign. While my version was much cruder than what you have now ( I am a guitar player) I became so enamored with the computer that I spent 90% of my time editing to "perfection" that my playing and creativity suffered for about five years. I finally let it go and am much happier today without it. Plus my playing and ability have really improved ( I am close to your age born 1963). I really enjoy your videos, they are right on with alot of my experiences.

[@boltman21]

This helps explain why I enjoy watching almost any band or performer live.

[@xhavelx9163]

@@Airlane-rq9yd playing to a click and quantizing the track are too seperate things, though

[@dzonyyya]

@@Airlane-rq9yd They are playing with a click because most of the time you are too excited when performing and tend to play things much faster which sometimes kills the feeling of the song.

[@boltman21]

@@Airlane-rq9yd nope. But I generally do prefer live performances. The sound, the feel, the emotion. The imperfections are great. So, if they are using this, I get it.

[@kitekrazee]

If there are slight mistakes or the singer is slightly out of tune it's live. Now though we have more singers that can't sing on pitch.

[@joseanl]

It also helps that rap, EDM and Pop are better suited (because its listeners expect this ) to use this tools and they don't feel repulsed by them, in fact that is what they like. I listen to a lot of this new youtube genre of "rapper listens to rock" and one thing that I hear from them once and once again is that they are amazed by the amazing transitions that rock and metal make and the feel they have doing it. Generally they don't have this in rap because they use a constant beats, sampled music and click boxes

[@shinyoneincarnate5565]

I was a recording musician & studio owner. When we recorded via 8 track, the drums got 4 tracks, bass got 1, rhythm 1. vocals 1. Lead guitarist had to pre-plan his solo. He learned it & then went in to record an intro, story line, climax, outro, like a book outline. Anymore than 8 tracks needed, you had to do what was called fold down or bounce tracks. When we went to 24 track machines, drums got 8 tracks. Bass, rhythm # 1, rhythm # 2, keys, backing vocals, horns or strings, sync tone or video sync got a total of 7 more. This left about 10 tracks open. Now the lead player would come in the studio & wing 5 tracks of lead guitar. The lead part would then be mixed together by listening to the 5 parts, & moving the volume faders up & down on the mixing console, while recording to a 2 track machine, to send to the mastering studio. The lead guitarist then had to go home, & learn the solo for live work.

[@BenEller]

Yet another fantastic video from Uncle Rick. You’re the man!

[@shadehunter]

Hey, its Uncle Ben buried in the comments! Lol

[@wdiprod]

I wouldn’t say it’s THE reason but rather ANOTHER reason. ;)

[@jasonkirkham550]

wdiprod. very true.

[@arnieus866]

Maybe this is why I play my old albums. Modern manufactured music is like art they sell at a furniture store.

[@arturoacosta6583]

Yeah man,the computer messed up,the music business just listen to hot 97most of it is garbage.

[@THXx1138]

We just bought a circa 1965 Magnavox console stereo. Breaking out the vinyl. Clicks and pops and all smiles!!

[@THXx1138]

@Thomas Headley Tom Headley? You don't have a brother named Randy do you??

[@THXx1138]

@Thomas Headley - What were you going to say about the stylus?

[@THXx1138]

@Thomas Headley I couldn't comprehend most of that but I will enjoy!! Thank you :) ;)

[@neptunestrident4364]

Explains a lot. No wonder I hate anything after the 90s

[@leepat]

hurray for albums recorded live (even in the studio). now I know I was right to want to slow down between verse and chorus (and accelerate in the prechorus). thanks for keeping it real Rick!

[@Incomudro1963]

Just brought the cd's - yes the cd's of Van Halen I & II. Amazing to hear the raw, human energy.

[@leepat]

​I know, right​! My friends Superska did this with a guest star and I still admire them for it two years later :)

[@AudioPervert1]

Dont bore us, get to the chorus.

[@HerrNox]

So producers are quantizing live performances and I'm here trying to humanize midi parts.

[@banparlous2552]

Herr Nox lol Ya’ know??! 😆

[@marcelcornec3781]

I like this.

[@clairvoyantmole8668]

It's so funny, isn't it? Electronic music producers put so much effort into bringing life into their music by adding imprecision, while some rock producers use the same effort to suck it out. :-)

[@baddriversofcolga]

The worst thing to happen to music, in my opinion, is the extremely loud mixing/mastering you get these days. That'll take the life out of even the most well-produced albums. After that I'd say overly clean sounding production. I wish more music was produced by people like Albini.

[@dorielementary]

The perfection that is being pushed on us isn't perfection. Pitch correction moves the human voice to the nearest equal tempered note on the keyboard. This pitch is a known compromise in tuning and was intended for keyboards. The human voice is not limited by that restriction unless you choose to impose that restriction on it. The best singers know when and how to sing slightly sharp or flat to be more expressive. We live in an era of pitch correction, quantization, photoshop, artificial sweeteners, prescription drugs etc. All of these are designed to trick you into believing something fake is real. But many of you know better. Thank you Rick Beato for being a voice of reason.

[@kenthawley5990]

Quantizing, Auto-tune, Volume, and Compression. The Four Horsemen of the the Rock Apocalypse.

[@SkaMasta097]

Kent Hawley I don’t understand how or why some people defend these things. Most of the time it’s not the talentless modern musicians defending it, its producers or audio engineers. They’ll say “It’s not inherently bad”, “you just don’t understand what goes into making the sound”, or “it’s not all bad. It can be used tastefully and artistically if done right or not overused”. But what constitutes being “done right” or “not overused”? Nearly all popular music I hear doesn’t do it right and certainly doesn’t use them in moderation. Quite the contrary. Instead of a touch up, they repaint the entire picture, so to speak. Anyway, even if it could be done right, I still have a problem with it. I seriously think it’s cheating. It’s deceiving the listener and removing all the human inconsistencies that make the music great. Perfection sounds boring. It’s so fake and superficial. I would want to make a record without autotune, quantization, and dynamic range compression so that it sounds real, even if it means sounding not as good. Now I know why music sucks for the most part from the mid 2000s to now. I’m not even a middle aged old man or a dad. I’m in my early-mid thirties and I remember music in the 1990s and even the early 2000s didn’t have these “cheat codes”, but they have been used increasingly ever since to the point where pretty much all current music relies on them. It’s a damn shame. What happened to just recording another take if the musician messes up? Producers these days are so lazy and impatient. They just want to make money as quickly and cheaply as possible.

[@kenthawley5990]

@@SkaMasta097 I couldn't agree more. I am a middle-aged father, and more and more I find myself listening to stripped down songs that are sometimes just a guy and a guitar and a pedal bass drum like Colter Wall. It's just more real. But even groups like Rush who had huge sounds back in the '70s and '80s were just doing it on their own. Sometimes Geddy's voice cracks, sometimes Peart gets ahead on the beat, sometimes Alex misses a note, but it all still sounds fantastic.

[@brown9671]

I’m glad it happened. It was good so other genres could blossom

[@Questioneverythingx]

Volume and Compression? Compressors and limiters were used even on The Beatles records. Now, Quant and auto-tune can fuck off.

[@Torthrodhel]

But why say rock apocalypse when you could instead say rockpocalypse?

[@baconsogood454]

Having a true sense of music helps combat this. First, don't quantize anything. Second, record yourselves playing the song live (either at practice or a performance) and note the subtle tempo changes and where they are. All the DAW's I know of allow you to change tempo, either subtly or radically. Third, don't use the DAW as a "fix-it" machine. Use it as a recording studio, lay down some good takes and overdub if needed. Third, don't auto tune or, if you do, use it so minimally that it can't be detected. If you are way off key, that is a bad take: do it over. Computers didn't kill rock. It was they way people used them that did. There are still ton of good indie rock bands out there that know what they are doing that still rock. The difference is that these days you have to actually search for the decent music. What the industry is putting out is, for the most part, garbage (thanks to the issues Rick points out in the video). Some drummers freak if they see that their hits don't line up with the beat markers. Well informed drummers (and other musicians) know this is the "feel" of the song and leave it alone. Same with the other instruments. Remember the saying, "Perfect is the enemy of good". The final litmus and the only true test is to use your ears. If it sounds good, it is good.

[@erlineandrews]

A lot of "indie" bands are signed to and promoted by major labels. You seem to think there's a strict separation.

[@baconsogood454]

@@erlineandrewsOh no, I am well aware. Sorry for the confusion. I was using the term meaning strictly "Independent bands" as opposed to the "Indie" genre.

[@junodx7]

“Music happens in between the grid lines” Love it. Coming to a tee-shirt near you. You’re a real guru Rick. Love all your vids.

[@fthrgasp]

I would totally buy this.

[@brunolopez5214]

A very interesting example of the opposite happening in electronic music is Burial's first album Of course he used a computer, but he did not use any software with grids or quantization in it. That is something very strange in that genre, but it really makes his music sound much more "human" and natural. 100% recommended.

[@user-dc7um4pr3f]

J Dilla is another person that used technology but never quantized.

[@shahaab]

Preach! These subtleties is what makes 'organic' music great.

[@StefUllrichMusic]

Coming up next: quantizing Rachmaninoff's piano concertos.

[@tomdaniel5039]

Absolutely right. Anything from the 19th century that is performed with a rubato feel would be totally ruined by quantizing.

[@JP-is9sc]

coming up next: copyright claim?

[@Colosphonium]

@@tomdaniel5039 it isnt. So it a non issue isnt it nobody is quantisizing a world class pianist performance.

[@JohnSmith-oe5kx]

@@tomdaniel5039 Any classical music, from any period, is ruined by quantizing. Even Bach played by Glenn Gould--which is almost superhuman in its precision at times--never sounds quantized, and it is the almost imperceptible "inaccuracies"--entirely deliberate--that give the performance such depth.

[@Colosphonium]

@@JohnSmith-oe5kx it isnt actually the timing that create that feeling. Gould is always on time it is in his phrasing of dynamic that he express himself. Rubato is pretty sloppy if you ask me. You hear somoene like lang lang play prokofiev concerto and he is literally a computer. But he has technicality in reserve to simply phrase evrething. Rubato in gould play is a shift in entire section and not that slopoy romantic era rubato from note to note.

[@DragonCrestPC]

Thank you for this Rick, i've been saying this for years.

[@ulisescr]

for me, all makes sense now

[@thomastmc]

Don't you think that the problem with Rock is the lack of talent? Computer based genres such as Hip-Hop and EDM are more popular, and talent that would have innovated and made original Rock have abandoned the genre for more popular ones.

[@hernandz1000]

@@thomastmc Plus there were a bunch of good bands using Computer-based music such as NIN, Radiohead, Depeche Mode... It doesn't mean there were not good just bc they were doing that. What truly matters is talent, creativity, persistence and trying different things that's what separates good from bad artists.

[@hernandz1000]

And most of the ppl (listeners) clearly don't know what he is talking abt. I think the video was made for producers and musicians and he was trying to make a joke bc Computers didn't kill any musical genre but according to his opinion, it gives sort of an unnatural sound to music which I consider it to be true as well.

[@tonedowne]

It’s not so much lack of talent as the flattening out of talent by gridding and tuning everything. You could get an ok band and an amazing band to track the same song, and after it was gridded, sample replaced and tuned, the ok band would sound better and the amazing band would sound worse. The end result would be that you couldn’t tell one band from the other. So why bother with bands at all if it’s all just going to sound like a sequencer anyway?

[@stickwithit]

This was eye opening to the fact that when everything is perfect, nothing is. Let the imperfections shine! Don't feel the pressure to be so robotic with your production and the feel will carry the song. Most people aren't going to notice if the attack of the note is a couple of ticks or samples away from the grid as long as it's not distracting from the journey of the song, you can go much further by being authentic and not worrying about how locked in you are, than stressing for every part to be on the grid

[@caramanico1]

It's not just the "perfection" aspect of it, but the fact that finding, keeping, and recording/gigging with a drum machine takes aways the biggest headache in every band - the drum kit and associated expense and hassles of having to constantly break down, set up and transport all of it. Throw in that drummers are very rarely songwriters and only occasionally lend backing vocals or play any other instrument. Our drummer actually had a drum machine - that way he could come up with and rehearse his parts while living in an apartment. Then it was back to the real kit for recording and gigging. RIP Rimshot, we all miss you!

[@prodbyANT]

Computers didn't kill rock music, formulaic cookie cutter corporate radio buttrock killed rock music.

[@danjones4002]

Yes yes yes. Computers made it possible for everyone's music to be heard. You just have to look harder for music.

[@electricuniverse7825]

The formula makes it a more precise ritual. Worse music, better hypnosis. Billionaires 1, music 0.

[@aksekhiddelll8900]

The formulaic cookie cutter corporate stuff is happening in movies as well

[@zenbabaloo1931]

The internet, the fans, radio, the record companies and the acts themselves killed rock music as a cultural voice. Everyone is guilty, no one is innocent.

[@dclaghorn2]

@@danjones4002 Real effing hard! It's a small miracle that Geta Van Fleet actually made SNL this past week...

[@keithwallis9799]

Great video Rick. If it can be done, lots of people are tempted to do it. The digital age has revealed who the really good mixers and engineers are - those who keep a few "errors" in there when it would be easy to shift everything into line, because they can be what give a musician, especially a drummer, their unique sound. Something Glenn Fricker is always swearing about is the 'fix it in the mix' mentality. Artists aren't pushed to put in a great performance when everything can be made what is claimed to be perfect. It ends up soulless.

[@shpeen8835]

Yep just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD

[@grateful4068]

First, everyone hated drum machines. Then, they became drum machines.

[@wbiro]

Phah! I still finger-drum (though I once played the drums, and I have 'drum mentality')...

[@leetorry]

Eh, I do like the sound of drum machines at times, Agoraphobic Nosebleed, Sarcofago and Godfles are some of my favorite bands who use dem drum machines.

[@analogaudiorules1724]

I still hate modern production tools...

[@Gladtobemom]

As I watched, it became clear that the power to mess with things in detail like this is addictive. Yet there are wonderful musicians. What will it take for them to be able to sit in the studio together and really let that group vibe build the music. Is it just too expensive? Do the record producers(programmers) just want to control it so much and fix it so much that they don't need the musicians for anything except that "first pass."

[@cherrysunburst828]

That's my main gripe with modern pop/rock music. It all sounds robotic, clinical, too 'perfect'

[@GOAT-rl2uq]

Absolutely. I've been wondering why, despite there being lots of great modern metal bands, I can't seem to really find a modern "normal rock" band that I actually like. It all sounds the same and it all sounds overproduced.

[@colebowman2833]

@@GOAT-rl2uq I think it sounds like that cause it is that. Good luck searching... I'm trying too.

[@Ac-dk9ki]

Fucking hell, you guys are really lazy if you can't find ONE rock band that appeals to you. Not even Greta Van Fleet, the 2010's encarnation of 70's dad rock that you all so strongly praise?

[@allenlocke1935]

@@@GOAT-rl2uq Try Rival Sons...But I bet they did it to them too, as soon as they left the studio!

[@konradsas5710]

List of good modern bands: Demob happy Royal blood Sam fender(solo artist) Cleopatrick Badflower

[@m.a.4949]

And that's why Lars stopped practicing🤣

[@jm2206]

Greatest. Comment. Ever!

[@RKDriver]

That guy catches a lot of flack. He's the C.C. Deville of the drumming world.

[@DNixon845]

Trick comment. Lars didn’t nor does practice. But, he has over a dozen world tours. After the early 90s...he got silly with fills and not supporting the song. I have no world tours or one fair show played. I play the harmonica.

[@charlesallison8121]

Lars practiced?

[@void4256]

Just my opinion but I don't see where Lars was all that great of a drummer Live, but his recordings were spot on. sounds like he used some automated drum tracks in his recording. They make him sound great but live he sucks tremendously.

[@Tazmanian_Ninja]

I am all FOR/PRO groove, organic feel and "humanness" in music production. IMO we need more of that back, in electronic music (which I produce). However, you seem to miss the influence of electronic music like house and techno. I think its pulsating, throbbing four-to-the-floor awakens something deep within, traces from our ancient tribal roots. Like shamanic drumming. Dancing around the bonfire. I also believe our brains react differently to a 100% quantized kick / main rhythm. It's excitatory for our brains. Trance-inducing. "Trance" as in the phenomena we all experience when we're in flow, or daydreaming. That said, our brains also like complexity - as in "looking at tree branches" or "looking at a sunset with cloud formations without any kind of grid or order to them" in awe. So, on top of the solid beat, we also need something that ISN'T quantized. Something that floats. Our brains like the challenge of making sense of it. Fitting it into the groove/beat/pattern. Our hearts don't beat in a quantized manner either, by the way. Their beats fluctuate slightly. It's called heart-rate-variability (HRV) and is a sign of / correlates with good heart health and low stress-levels. Source: I'm deeply fascinated by this topic, and have read quite a lot of brain studies on stochastic noise, brain entrainment, etc.

[@janemorrow6672]

Tazmanian Ninja Thanks. Great comment!

[@BrandochGarage]

He was specifically discussing the ongoing decline of Rock music in general, a common thread here. But true within that genre you speak, there is a ton of room for the Human art of how to make effective electronic music. It's clear that even with the computer driven grooves that some producers 'have it' and others do not.

[@jeffblack5024]

Tazmanian Ninja There is something to be said for music that is deliberately robotic. When I first heard ‘I Feel Love’ by Donna Summer in 1977, it sounded amazing - though it could be argued that it was Donna’s soul against the machines. That record was the ground zero of modern electronic dance music (EDM as they insist on calling it in the States).

[@BrandochGarage]

@@jeffblack5024 My Dad could never understand why I liked that song. To him it was too repetitive. But I didn't find it that way at all.

[@mesoanarchy]

"However, you seem to miss the influence of electronic music like house and techno. I think its pulsating, throbbing four-to-the-floor awakens something deep within, traces from our ancient tribal roots. Like shamanic drumming. Dancing around the bonfire." And yet ALL "shamanic" drumming was groove, not quantized.

[@hendrikbarboritsch7003]

Eye-opening. I love the subtle tempo changes the old bands had in their songs. Like Boston, Maiden etc.

[@MikeeHollMartz]

Computers didn't ruin rock, the suits did.

[@D-One]

@@360.Tapestry That's true for any genre tho.

[@deanroddey2881]

The 'suits' probably had little to do with it. The guys in the suits wouldn't know a DAW or a plugin if they accidentally sat down on one. It was more the producers I'm pretty sure. It was a 'race to the bottom' to create the most inhumanly polished music.

[@MikeeHollMartz]

@@deanroddey2881 Yeah, but the suits hire these producers just for the sake of generic polished music that climb the charts. They don't care if its good or bad, as long as it's making them (suits and producers, not artists) money!

[@deanroddey2881]

@@MikeeHollMartz Well, it's not nearly that simple of course, and it's easy to be cynical about it. But there are a lot of people in the music business who love music and would like to do the right thing, but they DO have to make money and ultimately it's the customers who dictate what does. Of course these days the 'customers' steal it as often as buy it probably, which means that they aren't dictating nearly as clearly as they used to.

[@soulcrusher807]

@@deanroddey2881 almost no o e steals music anymore. It is streamed now and that is either paid for by ad based listening or subscription.

[@jasonschannel9526]

This is what I call the 'sterilization' of music. I don't really listen to new music anymore. The overproduced and sampled productions of today just feel sterile. After becoming a live sound engineer, I vastly prefer a live performance to the sterilized productions of today. I have recorded some bands live and although the quality isn't what you can get from a production studio, it's raw and nothing is artificial. I recorded a video with a webcam and multi-channel out of my console to my PC, and I was pretty pleased with the results for my first recording at the venue I do sound for. Sampling is also a huge problem. They don't like the sound they are getting from a kit, they just grab a sample. Problem with samples is they sound alike. There is no creativity in finding a new tone like they used to do in the old days. As for your pinned comment, I agree 100%. Just because the tool existed didn't mean they all had to do that.

[@themadmattster9647]

ive used ez drummer a bunch in the past, and even though there are things like superior drummer where you can tweak the sounds and do different stuff, i STILL hear a bunch of bands using the same 10-15 year old drum samples that the original ez drummer, or drumkit from hell had!

[@777jones]

It’s not music if it is totally quantitative. It’s fake music.

[@JonnyInfinite]

I don't this is the sole reason for the demise of rock. Loudness War made everything sound uniform and wimpy, no dynamics and no change loud to soft. Again, production to blame though

[@WAX1138]

I agree and this has been shown to be a fact. Without the pro-tools though the "loudness war" could never have happened. We need some reality, some real hard times, to bring back everyone back to earth for goodness to rise again.

[@newdeep19]

asia heat of the moment has more feel than any 2000s song.

[@samuelmcneill1120]

I think of it like this. Music Companies were the killer, computers were just the knife.

[@Snookyooz]

I absolutely agree with every word! I've been saying this for years: I would wonder why music sounded what I call 'cooked'. Dead and mechanical and without vitality. But now I can say, 'pitched and pocketed'. Thank you maestro!

[@robinspat]

Tower of Power Album - 'In the pocket' ;) or was it one track called that? hehe

[@jamesclark6142]

"Music actually happens in between the grid lines." I'm going to make a poster...

[@dclaghorn2]

That would sell. Or a tee shirt.

[@NJP76]

@@dclaghorn2 I would definitely buy that poster...AND the T-shirt!

[@billyruss]

OMG... This SO vindicates something that I have been saying for years: some of the best rock music was made in a time before quantisation (and, also, over-compression) were possible. Can you imagine Led Zep IV treated in this way? These albums were made with human passion and they have stood the test of time. Can you also imagine the great folk and blues artistes of the past having their work treated in this way? Simon and Garfunkel or Janis Joplin autotuned and brought into line rhythmically? :-)

[@enriquejimenez8693]

Me: Click on a "how computers ruined rock music". KZbin: Plays a symphonic virual orchestation online course ad.

[@dagoelius]

"The second is Auto-tune, that killed humanity."- Rick Beato. Word.

[@michaelxz1305]

haha, this is a great example to show people studying English the use of articles because they don't really exist in their language (e.g. Russian) - the difference a "the" makes can sometimes be genocide :D

[@justcarcrazy]

Overlaying an Autotuned vocal track with the original vocal track creates some eerie and useful effects.

[@ld.117]

Hating auto tune is like grandpa from the 50s hating electric guitar. It's an instrument. Too bad rockheads are so stuck up their arse

[@ld.117]

@flex56k We could argue of what the definition of an instrument is. The voice is an instrument, even when you can't sing. SO why wouldn't auto-tune be an instrument just like the electric guitar is an instrument (it's also "just" a distortion effect on a guitar). I can already name 3 songs in which auto-tune is used as an instrument : Bon Iver - Woods Kanye West - Runaway James Blake - Lindisfarne

[@andrewdomonic6603]

@@ld.117 Justin uses live vocoders, not ramped up auto-tune, but I see your point.

[@vernonjmartin]

As he's shuffling parts around on the grid, Rick says, "It doesn't really matter." That pretty much says it all! Nothing matters to a computer. Once music fails to matter, it's it lacks the very thing that makes it music in the first place.

[@RTDF516]

I'm challenged to to call anything created by a computer program "music" to begin with, going by a strict definition of music, a product of the living.

[@RenegadeRussell]

I left the music industry in 81 when I got tired of playing the bars and listening to bubble headed blondes. I still play the drums but in my sound proof basement with old friends. It's more of maintaining friendships than dreams of fame. Listening to this I wonder what we drummers are good for these days. I'm blown away by the advances, but feel that modern rock left me a long time ago. I suddenly realize why. It has in fact lost it's humanity. Without the ability to groove, the soul of the music departs and what you are left with is a lifeless piece of sounds. I rarely listen to the radio and my collection of music is more museum grade than modern selections. I now completely understand why. Groove is very important to me as a drummer. You have to feel the music, not just play it. I guess leaving the industry was for the best. I don't miss it. I don't need it, and I sure as hell don't like the new music.

[@gevansmd1]

Darn! If I had known I would have headed your direction to pick up the bubble headed blondes you left behind.

[@evillano]

Yes, and this is true for ALL music today...

[@SwiftRelish]

just drum for metal or something, live instrumentation is very much alive

[@echo0deth]

@@evillano not all of it tbh

[@riproar11]

@eye light I noticed after 2001 that mainstream music was becoming really $hitty and wondered what was happening?