How Did A Great Manufacturer Get Things So Wrong? Caterham 21

Caterham got a legendary car, the 7, and made it more usable. It should have been a runaway success, instead it was a total flop. Was it a bad car? or just a victim of circumstance? The Lotus Elise did come out at the same time...
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[@TheBadBunny87]

Biggest problem is that the people that see it wont go "oh nice, look at that Caterham" they'll say "Oh look a kit car"

[@brianiswrong]

Exactly this

[@simonacuthbert1]

Perfect line.

[@McBeamer94]

Correct, except that Caterhams are kit cars in general, so it makes no difference.

[@louisimission2153]

@TheBadBunny87 Thats not even a factor, You'd be so happy and engaged driving this thing that You won't give a hoot what anyone thinks it is. Best example of motoring pleasure and exellence I've seen in ages. Got to love a revvy little twin cam four pot in a little sleek British two door.

[@TheBadBunny87]

@@louisimission2153 ofc it's a factor. It's a major factor. It's the factor that gets you into the car in the first place. Well for the majority of the buying public at least. It looks cheap, tacky and poorly put together. Seeing one in person would leave me with absolutely no desire to purchase one. Which explains why so little was built.

[@ofmanynicknames]

It's very interesting that the Caterham 21 was effectively killed by the cheaper but more capable Lotus Elise, considering Lotus had recently experienced the other side of the coin with the M100 Elan suffering a similar fate at the hands of the Mazda MX-5.

[@1183newman]

Similar although wouldnt call the mx5 more capable than an m100, just cheaper.

[@SaxCass]

@@1183newman the Elan was fwd the MX-5 rwd...

[@claywebb8199]

To compare an Elan to an MX-5 is sacrilege, the Elan is far superior.

[@SaxCass]

​@@claywebb8199 we're talking about the M100 non the real Elan

[@1183newman]

@@SaxCass I know that, but the elan was reviewed very favorably in period.

[@uselessDM]

I feel like the way the car is very oldschool would make it more appealing today than it did in the 90s. I feel like back then everyone wanted to look forwards in terms of what cars they wanted to drive, today a lot of people rather look backwards so to that crowd it could be appealing, if they tweaked it a little and made it actually usable as a daily driver type car.

[@simond5208]

I remember sitting both the Elise and the 21 at the Motor Show. I loved the look of the 21 and but couldn't believe it when the salesman told me that there was no ventilation and the windows didn't open. In my opinion they made it even less practical than the 7.

[@guylachlan1736]

I love my 21. Sure it's not as capable on track as an Elise, but the 21 is better in every way for a 2-person road trip on fast A-roads. The boot's huge, and roof much easier to use than an S1 Elise. When you think Caterham's total development budget was £400k, they did an amazing job. They just took too long to get it launched.

[@amazingjason455]

Is it true that with the top and windows up, there is no ventilation, no fresh air?

[@BatCaveOz]

@@amazingjason455 I suspect the massive panel gaps would allow some fresh air to enter the cabin ;)

[@guylachlan1736]

@amazingjason455 of course not. There are eyeball vents on and under the dash that can deliver hot or ambient external air. I suspect the reviewer didn't realise the heater was on, hence his hot feet.

[@DrPittenstein]

Agreed fantastic cars to drive, deserved to sell much better. At the time I enjoyed driving the 21 more than I did the Elise S1. Very rare sight these days but I think the design has aged really well. I currently own a 7 Superlight R, CSR and an Elise so a big fan of them all!

[@martinrichardhorrocks9869]

Thank you for your informed opinion.

[@ColinCarFan]

Found it difficult to concentrate without being distracted by the full harness seatbelt being incorrectly worn as a standard belt! Great car for high days and weekends if you can find one for sale!

[@karl-heinzepchen1280]

This should be shown to the management and the developement department of Schroth. Someone in Arnsberg/Germany or Fort Lauderdale/USA will have to reconsider their instructions for use. 😅 Simply incredible! 🤦‍♂️

[@archiegoodwinjr]

The full harness may be a hindrance when trying to move one's chest to reach anything further than the gear shift. Other KZbin presenters have complained about harnesses on the road and some cars (such as Ferrari) come with both sets. The harness is super macho looking and makes sense on a closed circuit where G force wants to push the driver sideways.

[@ColinCarFan]

@@archiegoodwinjr Harness tends to be specified as it's much safer in a crash - stops you hitting the steering wheel or dashboard with your head (no airbags in Caterhams!) Also holds you in place in a roll.

[@EZ-D-FIANT]

Yea I noticed that, I totally get why I have UK street legal harnesses in my 600bhp SW20 and promptly put the original seat belts back in after a few weeks of stress, I'm thinking here he's either done it because he wants to move around or they are not road legal so he's trying to style it..😂.😂

[@ChristianACW]

This must be the coolest car I never heard of 😄love the interior (way nicer than the Elise) and the sound! Thanks for showing us this gem! 👍

[@CliveSkipper]

A few points about the engines. If I remember correctly the first 21 produced had a Vauxhall 2.0 ltr engine (redtop) from the Caterham JPE, which would have been around 250bhp !!!! Also there was the option to have k-series with the R500 spec engine, again from memory only one was sold. The 21, in my mind, is a beautiful car and I would love to own one!

[@bobmcl2406]

Regarding sliding the Elise, that lack of confidence likely is related to the mid-engine design-inherent low polar moment of inertia. Basically all the weight is located near the point of rotation, so it doesn't telegraph its intentions. With a conventional layout (such as the Caterham), you feel the "wag" earlier. I learned this the first time I drove a mid-engine single seat race car back in the early 1980s. I had to turn off my "tush sensor" and rely far more on my eyes to anticipate the onset of rotation.

[@adamhickford5502]

It's not just the position of the weight, it's the driver too - you're so much nearer the rear wheels in the Caterham that you'll feel the movement sooner. Probably also why the steering feels slower, to some extent too.

[@AVM-Music]

Enjoyed that. I had forgotten the 21, gorgeous little thing. Kinda reminds me of a Marcos with the styling. Gotta love small engined cars. Cracking content

[@rupertorgan7749]

The 21 was clearly developed on a miniscule budget and needed just a few more refinements, like wind-up windows and a ventilation system, to make it competitive against the Elise. It's a shame, because it's a nice-looking car.

[@noahderrington5156]

I drive that road all the time and it’s such a great driving experience! I see you guys and Harry’s Garage testing often 😀👋

[@skylerhempsall2934]

Still one of the most beautiful cars I have very seen, especially the one finished in the chrome finish.

[@christopherboyle1479]

Never mind the Elise as competition, the car that really guaranteed the 21's failure was the Mazda MX-5. Front-engine rear-drive lightweight fun in a car that was reliable, maintainable and resalable versus a 60's kit car? And value for money? No contest. Fair disclosure: I own an Elise S2.

[@berttroubleyn3475]

I was a car-mad teenager when this came out, launched with a shiny polished aluminium body, and I was smitten. Unfortunately no-one bought it, so it's near impossible to find used examples today. Mr 27, I understand you probably didn't get a lot of time with the car, but it's a shame when you talk about removable windows and a roof when you don't show how those items look or work. Nevertheless, I think this is the first review of the 21 I've ever stumbled across, so thank you.

[@portnaluinge]

Great to see a 21 on the channel. It’s such a shame that such a great car failed, but it just fell between two stools. The people who wanted a 7 bought a 7, and those who wanted a little more practicality were much better served by the Lotus as you say. I hope their next new sports car fairs better!

[@secretsquirrel3793]

The biggest advantage thst the 21 has over the Elise is that its playful snd predictable, which cannot be underestimated. The Elise is much less trustworthy near the limit and that's a big demerit. However, on balance, its no wonder that it didn't sell well.

[@philthewriter]

Not a bad car. Just absolutely eclipsed in every way by the Elise. Same as the Renault Sport Spider. Forgot it was also a K, sounds good.

[@GenaF]

It's a lovely little car, but it's shocking to be more expensive than an actual Lotus Elise.

[@louisimission2153]

The engine has way more character and the thing is way rarer, it makes sense to Me. I'd pick this in a flash.

[@timgass5426]

​@@louisimission2153 They both have the same k series engine.

[@louisimission2153]

What a silly sausage, I guess it's the exhaust that has way more character.

[@1greenMitsi]

maybe the fact that he said only 48 were made has something to do with it

[@mrdainase]

@@1greenMitsi 48 mugs then

[@Gurovski]

There was one for sale recently in BRGreen it looked fab. The removeable only side windows are not really a downside as I am sure most would have them in place in the UK, unless it's a brilliantly hot summers day, so climate change might have you removing them more. The Ford Mondeo rear lights suit it perfectly. The dash board is so well designed, reminds me of that of a classic Corvettes C2/C3. I want one 🤪

[@stuwilsonrallying]

Any reason you're not using the harness correctly? I do like the look of the 21

[@the5th2000]

I remember reading about these in "the knowledge" in Evo in the early 2000s. The one-liners were not favourable.... This is the first youtube review I've ever seen, and in fact the first time I've ever seen one in action. Great stuff, thanks

[@NigelMarston]

One of the best looking cars ever. I was fortunate to have toured (in my 7) alongside 3 different high power versions of 21s throughout Europe and Scandinavia - none of them were standard. The engines included a significantly upgraded VHPD K, a transplanted Duratec and a transplanted 2-litre Vx. Compared with a 7, as opposed to an Elise, it was MUCH more suitable for the type of cross continental masochism my group engaged in. For a start, the aero enabled higher gearing which was much better when sat on continental motorways, but things like the roof (which still required a highly manual process) and the boot just made things better all round. Yet, the very essence of the 7 was maintained. At the time, nothing would have led me to swap my 7 for a 21 but these days I try to avoid looking at the classifieds in case I see one and exchange my savings for one. Yes, the Elise killed off the 21 for all the reasons you mention and I do think many of the comparisons are fair however if you do look at it from the perspective of a 7 owner, it makes a lot of sense. If they'd been able to continue development and perhaps base an evolved version of the 21 on a CSR chassis then perhaps the extra width and IRS would have benefitted more people but it would have dulled the driving experience and possible the styling.

[@PortugalCarp]

What a lovely little beast, looks like a cross of a Spitfire and a MX5.

[@graemelliott3942]

Here in Los Angele, I’ve never seen or heard about a Caterham 21! It’s brilliant. Thank you for the review! Please review a Renault Sport Spider

[@jonmarsden1366]

I fell in love with this car when I first saw the publicity photos of the aluminum bodied prototype but when I saw it in the flesh, the impracticality of it became apparent. I ended up with one of the first Elises instead and never regretted the decision.

[@michaelpegasiou4531]

Never seen one of these,driven the 7 on track days and you can’t let off the accelerator round high speed corners unless you want to spin off.Thanks for showing me a car that’s passed me by.Happy new year 😊

[@ryanmccormick2150]

Excellent stuff Jack! ...... hope you're well buddy 👍

[@antonakis79ohyes]

Another great video! Thanks for bringing these cars of my adolescence on the channel, it brings back memories!😊

[@DrPittenstein]

Great to see a 21 on the channel, very rare sight these days. I remember them as being fantastic to drive and deserved to sell better. I went for a Seven instead (which I still own!) but can see how someone might prefer the 21 to an Elise, especially with 180bhp, very few Elise S1s were that quick.

[@martinda7446]

Good lad Jack. Fantastic appraisal. The best I've seen or heard - quite easily.

[@therainforest4314]

I really like the overall dimensions and style of the car. That footwell certainly does look tight, though.

[@caterhamsuperlightr81]

Great to see a 21 review, they are such rare little things! Sadly the launch timing coinciding with the Elise meant it was never going to be a success… hard to believe Caterham weren’t aware what Lotus were planning? I always think of them as a small Marcos!

[@jonfrank2566]

Well done for scoring a 21. Love the interesting obscure cars...

[@71ala]

Imagine going through French and Italian toll booths with fixed windows and with your lower body pinned inside the car… makes a Lotus Exige Cup look positively posh in comparison. The 21 would have been a nightmare on any Euro driving trip.

[@TheMrFishnDucks]

Thank you for showcasing this car. I had no idea this ever existed, not even in Gran Turismo I played. Nice video. Keep up the good work.

[@louisimission2153]

Huge thanks to You, Mr. 27 for bring this little jem to the screen. Very happy to discover this 🍻

[@Bowl_of_roses]

I road tested on of these and (size 10 shoes) had to take my shoes off to drive it as the pedals were too close, so it was an instant no-no, despite looking nice. Tried the Elise after with no shoe problems; what an amazing little car.

[@markwalton8644]

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. I've driven a Caterham and a couple of Kit cars and I've always had to go and get my racing boots to drive them. Utter Pain, where the Elise, even though it wasn't the easiest to get in it was roomy once in.

[@stevemawer848]

@@markwalton8644 I heard that you didn't so much get in the Elise as put it on! 🙂

[@markwalton8644]

@@stevemawer848 They do feel like your wired to the Elise, I've also driven an S1 Exige felt liked you were hardwired. Shame they've stopped building them😓

[@paullondon5332]

I had Teflon tyres on my S1 Elise for a while and it was very tail waggie but lots of fun and easily caught with that lovely steering

[@robhallett8721]

A friend had one of these for several years, did 3 trips to Le Mans in it, great car to drive once you got in it. I defy anyone over 6ft to climb in with the roof up without loads of practice! His was metallic blue with cream leather and looked amazing. Think it ended up in Belgium or Holland from memory….

[@gazfish]

If they named it 27 it would have been a success

[@stephgagnoulet3133]

Fair review as always!!! Seen from the side it really looks like a Viper in reduction...

[@michaelteret4763]

Seems less like an Elise, and more like a Miata - even more of a price difference!

[@samueldowney2806]

Very nice and kind review. Unsurprising that it's really nice and good really, as all the ingredients are there. A shame is died so quickly but just look at the Elise in the background of the shot with the two parked together: It's a whole other world in terms of quality, tactility, practicality(!). Looks like the 21 was a lovely car. But the Elise really was an utterly incredible car

[@clangerbasher]

I remember upsetting somebody telling them the Elise chassis was glued together. And then doubled down by going on by telling them it was the same technology used to glue aeroplane wings together.....

[@andrewgardner9615]

Only ever seen 1 in the flesh-An anthracite grey one(looked great) in Knutsford Cheshire when they were first released.I had a Westfield se 1.7 at the time that I used to drive to work , in Knutsford from Manchester regularly.This one reminds a little of some Ginetta models or Sylva kit cars in the bright colour.

[@alaricbragg7843]

Thank you for this video. The funny thing was that I read a magazine article on it recently. Shame it did not sell well because it was excellent performance-wise and looks fun to drive.

[@dantheman7357]

Hi Jack, another great review. But I had a thought that made me laugh....think of all of the Caterham 7 owners who punished themselves running around town or on the track wedged into the 7. Then they see their first Caterham 21 and get tears in their eyes. The huge interior, the side windows, the luxurious interior fittings and design, the actual bodywork, and its seating position is actually more than 18 inches above road level, such luxury and class!!! I do love that car but it just didn't have a chance for big sales due to the factors you mentioned. See you on the next one.

[@john1703]

The real mistake, of course, was to use Ford Mondeo rear lights! It is more like an MX5 in its layout, rather than an Elise. Slower on a track, but nicer on the road.

[@Chamba1977]

100% agree with that, I can't look beyond them!

[@grahambell4298]

Mondeo rear lights didn't seem to do the Noble M12 any harm...

[@Chamba1977]

Yeah, they seemed to work better with that car.

[@AkiRalcolf]

Dude they aren't that bad. Smh

[@sphiliben]

So this is so interesting. In 1994 or 1995 I purchased an Original Elva Courier Owners manual from somebody in engineering @ Catherham. My girlfriend @ university in the 1980’s asked if I could buy a car with real doors. I had a Lotus 7 S2, and not a nice one at that time. I showed up the next week in the Elva, she wasn’t impressed. I still have my Elva and the Catherham 21 was the 90’s embodiment I love it, wish I had one

[@simoncoppingongoogle850]

Taking it to Caterham's crumbling F1 headquarters was harsh. I wonder what might have been with some Fernades cash. I asked Gez Coates once why they didn't put a v6 in it to make a product that sat between an Elise and a TVR. He said "no comment". Apparently they were working on it. The Caterham 25

[@simoncoppingongoogle850]

I just felt an all Ali v6 that could be tuned to sound like a Busso would have changed the personality of the car away from the Elise. Might have had to revert to the 5 spd if the torque was to high. It was impressive that it was 50kg lighter than an Elise but some of that could have been traded off for a 6 cyl engine that was a usp in a car that compact. I love the change of character the v6 mx5's possess.

[@benmarshall787]

Another great and honest video despite on paper your bias (or lack of it) towards the 21s main rival,ie the Elise. I remember the 21 being launched, in silver if I recall , the weeklies weren't very kind to it unlike you Jack. I like the 7 and the 21, I've attempted to gracefully get in a VX220 Turbo unsuccessfully so I think I wouldn't fit in either!! I thought the 21 was launched like you say to be more practical , however I also understood it to be vastly more aerodynamic than the 7 therefore increasing top speed , nvh etc and thus pitching at a different marketplace. It's a shame the windows are useless and perhaps it would have benefitted from a removable hard top a la mx5? Which perhaps was it's real proposed rival? Enjoyed this one, the sound of the 21 reminded me of the Esprit in "The Spy Who loved me". Best wishes for the New Year Jack, Ben 🇬🇧🇺🇦🚐🚌 Ps weren't Caterham supposed to be a partner with Alpine, to launch their own coupe originally? Perhaps the 21 could and should have been a coupe a bit like the Cobra and Viper coupes? Alpine a possible test example? Or the GTA V6 Turbo would be nice as it's a favourite of mine.

[@Bartman4800]

I am so glad to hear you say Bilstein instead of the Bilsteen that most English speakers do. But then again, you are also very correct on the pronunciation of Italian names. Great video, keep them coming Jack!

[@johnireland1629]

Great video. Fun watching you drive a car that you enjoy. Caterham looks like a kit car...they should have put more thought and effort into the whole package.

[@UberLummox]

Cool car. Great video. Thanks!

[@dominicanwar363]

Let's be honest. The reason the car looks like crap is because of the headlight height laws. The reason the wheelbase is too short is because of legalities in the UK which would require new crash testing. The fact it smells like Formaldehyde and has permafrost inside the cockpit is all Caterham.

[@Z-u-m-a]

Had totally forgotten about this. Looks lots of fun in isolation, even if owning an Elise gave another frame of reference.

[@liamm-c1287]

Excellent video, earned my sub! Interesting comments about accessible limits and playful oversteer. I think id rather have a 7 than an elise for that reason

[@falcodog2917]

I've never even heard of this car! I'll bet it's a blast to drive. Thanks for putting this out.

[@nealadsett8484]

Would love to see a test of a Panther Solo jack!

[@aliwhitwell]

Excellent review. 🙂

[@hugohugo2832]

Lovely little car. I was coincidentally staying at a Peak District hotel where it was launched. I decided to get one. It was too convoluted a process so I bought a Fireblade instead!

[@Jaq365]

I soon realized this has vibes of the modern Fiat 124 Spider, or 'Fiata' as we MX-5 ND2 owners call them. The panel gap on the left door is visually painful.

[@gazzafloss]

Hadn't even heard that type of Caterham had existed. Nice one Jack.

[@orvillefindley8117]

It sounds great !

[@daniellee9015]

Absolutely brilliant video jack ❤👍what the caterhham has it's it's own car and being caterhham both great cars it's a individual what a lovely car brilliant

[@ExMachinaEngineering]

Great, informative video but... I really don't like the way you're wearing that seat belt. Wearing only one shoulder strap of a 4-point harness is seriously dangerous. Unless there is a special system that converts it to an actual 3-point that lock at your side and not along the centre line of your body. I've never seen something like that but if that was the case, you should have mentioned it, man.

[@martinehrlich3908]

That is an awesome engine sound

[@lebojay]

I always wanted to know more about this car. Thank you.

[@geoffclarke3796]

Impressive little car that had the misfortune to be in production at the same time as the Elise. Saw one of these at a Motor Show but don't recall ever seeing one being driven on the road.

[@kahmed7328]

What a cool car. Wish we had more options for light and cheap sports car in the US. I love Miata’s but need some variety.

[@mikeweston7947]

A very enjoyable video. It would have been interesting to see the performance figures againt the Elise.

[@JohnButler-iq8rl]

If my memory serves me correctly the most powerful version was given the vhpd monicker-----

[@eric-wb7gj]

Thanks Jack, didn't realise they were as rare as that, but not surprising!

[@300bhpton]

Opinions vary. Personally I think the 21 is a fantastic looking car visually. The Elise is good too, but the 21 has such great lines. Really can't see how anyone could ever put its looks into a negative category. It would also have been interesting to know how it compared price wise to a similar powered Seven. Obviously the 21 would never have been cheaper, but how much more did it cost? A shame you didn't show the hood or how it fits. Did the 21 have a heater? For me I don't have under cover parking or a garage. So a Seven is not really viable. I want windows and roof that will keep the water out, but that can be removed easily. An MX-5 is an obvious answer, but something a bit more focused and lighter would be ideal if not a daily driver.

[@stuchly1]

Everything else put aside, the panel gap at the hinge of the door is hilarious. No wonder it had no chance against the elise, based on first impressions.

[@andabossftw]

I've been waiting for a video on this car for literal years

[@jondobbs]

Boxster, Z3, SLK and MX5 all came out at the same time so it should have been a success had these not appear

[@peteracton1515]

Looks like a great British sports car to me. Beautiful and raw.

[@2702simmo]

Enjoyed that I’d never heard of it before

[@Mr_Spegru]

Great interesting review. I like it! Perhaps the front grille looks a bit odd. Seems to me it was the basic alloy & mid engine platform of the elise that beat it with the extra practicality that brought. Mind you even my Sylva Stylus has wind up windows!

[@alexguest9937]

It's got a rakish Terry Thomas moustache!

[@superseven7947]

😂

[@wearetomorrowspast.5617]

What a cool car. I would probably fit pretty well being I'm a proper short-arse. Cracking exhaust note.. Cool vid, cheers.

[@MrCarrera28]

I have to wonder if it was killed by the MX5 rather than the Lotus Elise. Your average Caterham buyer after a practical convertible would look at the NA MX5 available with the 1.8 by 1994 at less than 3/4 the price. Delivering a light weight convertible with a better engine, metal body panels (which fitted together) and an equally great gearshift and handling that is not that far off the 21 relative to the price differential.

[@KarelBeelaertsvanBlokland]

K-engine sounds GOOD! The rear lights kill it for me - so ugly!

[@bavelnaard]

Thanks for showing us this very interesting car. As a very subjective compliment to the appearance, I think it looks a bit like a re-imagined Healey Frog eye.

[@assininecomment1630]

This was a significantly better quality vid than most others in the kast year. Having the Lotus as a point of reference, kept him far more focused on explaining the features and behaviour of the Caterham - rather than the usual rudderless rambling and hyperbole.

[@davidbarnsley8486]

It looks fantastic but who builds a car with no ventilation system or windy windows and says it’s more practical And it’s way to expensive 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@achill9603]

Wasn't aware of this model so an interesting video thanks. However, each time I hear "Eleece", it really grates! The word came to these isles from the French so pleaze, pleaze say "Eleeze"!

[@prjackson7802]

Great video

[@fredmacdonald9339]

beautiful car. shades of you only live twice

[@clivewilliams3661]

One of the biggest issues with the 21 was the fact that Caterham was seen as a kit car manufacturer of the 7 and not a mainstream sports car manufacturer that it was trying to be with the 21 that couldn't compete at that level. Given the true sports car suppliers that offered similar or better performance than the 21 at a cheaper price, why would you buy it?

[@alexanderclement928]

Hey, Jack, do you ever see Harry Metcalfe coming the other way when you're filming? 😂

[@jonathanbill6976]

I very nearly bought a 21 but the fixed side windows were a deal breaker for me as I wanted to use it as a daily driver. I ended up buying an Elise instead (which I've still got although it's fair to say that it's something I'd a Trigger's Broom!) and,a few years later, got a track only 7 to scratch that itch too.

[@PecanRanch]

First of all, taxi cabs and school buses are the only vehicles that should be painted that shade of yellow.

[@Insanitypants80]

As I recall, the 21 came out just before the Elise. I bet when the Elise came out, Caterham must have said "well.... shit".

[@grahambell4298]

Prototype 21 was revealed to favourable reviews at 1994 British Motor Show, when only people at Lotus new about the Elise, which was revealed about 9 months later.

[@Pyotr_Velikiy]

Lovely car, very desirable.

[@stephenmason5682]

It looks beautiful to me!

[@pruney84]

Being watching NBA basketball since 97 Even i had to rewind to recognize Juan Toscano-Anderson Props to you Jack for finding the most obscure nba dunker i can think of 😂😂😂

[@johnrayner3940]

I think, from what you've said Jack, I'd prefer a Caterham for its on/near the limit handling characteristics. Probably a 7, with 100% road biased suspension set-up, 13" wheels, 5 speed box, and an open diff. One day...