How Did Ash Greninja Lose?

[@Pokiiii62]

At the end of the video, the audio gets muffled, and it's cause the video got audio claimed. Sorry about that, friends 💙

[@al-sir]

When it comes to Alain and Ash Kalos League Final. I was pretty split on the result of who actually deserved to win. But the *BIGGEST ROBBERY* from Pokémon XY & Z was Serena not winning Kalos Queen. Her opponent Aria, their performance wasn’t even shown to the audience for half of the time!

[@Pokiiii62]

That is very true, I wish she did but it seems like she's doing pretty well in journeys

[@darkdragon7210]

Wait they weren't?

[@Mythicalstories7080]

​@@Pokiiii62Tbh True Ash Greninja should have won and also in the base forms Grenninja hit Charizard very hard while it was still raining making greninja stronger for a bit and if what you say is true Alain should have lose if he was defeat by a Elite Four Member who uses a Water Type Pokemon and Greninja is a Water Type Pokemon who is in levels of a Mega Evolve or even higher and logically greninja hit charizard way more aka Logically & without involvement of Alain Plot Armor Ash would naturally win and tbh that would be a good way to somehow end this series since tbh in Sword & Shield Ash doesnt deserve to win there since the tournament doesnt mean anything when its not worth the watch & the entire of sword & shield is mostly random filler rather then a finale arc for ash & also they make ash a kid & restarted everything again so yeah Ash should have won that atleast in Sun & Moon its more interesting win but the real win should have been in Xyz if the writers really want ash to return make him win and even though he wins he still wants to explore the world and tbh ash keeps losing they should just give him the win here for once oof lol

[@sukrieomar9071]

It was her first attempt in Master Class showcase so that doesn't look bad at all, plus with injury that she got and the fact that Aria doesn't have to participate until final ( which is a bit unfair )

[@kikopikac2806]

⁠@@sukrieomar9071how was it unfair? Almost every single world championship works this way. The contenders have to go through a tournament and earn their spot at challenging the world champion, who has to defend their title. What’s the point of having the number 1 just steamroll through half of the competition. Also, if the wc were to lose against someone randomly in the second round, it wouldn’t make very good headlines and it’s not a good way of “dethroning” the number 1

[@1nf3rnap3]

I’ve heard another argument that the writers wanted ash to win with pikachu, which to me sounds completely dumb as in Alloa when he actually won it was with lycanroc.

[@Pokiiii62]

That's very true 💀

[@yashdave7559]

​@@Pokiiii62 ash greninja Defeating diantha meanwhile that same ash greninja lost to wolfric mega abomasnow badly in there first fight Power scaling In anime is inconsistent cause ash Pikachu defeated regice in end of battle frontier arc but Paul eleilkid stalemated him ash Pikachu Stalemated latios in end of sinnoh arc But lost to trip snivy As for type match ups that was only in gen 1 and gen 2 later type matchups become relevant in the show And in again Lysander Pyroar flame thrower stalemated ash greninja cut attack Lysander was overpowering ash and alian together Untill malvaa showed up and her mega houndoom flame thrower Stalemated Lysander mega gyaradose hyperbeam which would have ended the battle According to anime Lysander mega gyaradose >= mega houndoom >>>>> mcx >>> ash greninja >>>> siebolt mega blastoise >>>>> sawyer mega sceptile >>>>> wolfric mega abomasnow >>>>> diantha mega gardevoir

[@sukrieomar9071]

Yeah, while in Master 8, his Pikachu lost to Cynthia's Spiritomb

[@GenHoenn]

​@@yashdave7559I can barely read what you said but I'll try my best to read it and answer. 1. Let's ignore other regions because we're not really going to include feats from there or anything either. Also, about trips snivy, they always make Ash bad at the beginning of every season. 2. Ash's loss to wulfric came at the lowest point in the bond phenomenon with ash and Greninja, where they were barely bonding at all and it was more forceful. You can also tell that with the loss to Sawyer right before that and their redemption after.

[@yashdave7559]

@@GenHoenn yaa I know that But in there second fight ash greninja was struggling against mega abomasnow And Lysander mega gyaradose was overpowering mcx and ash greninja together and would have won if malvaa didn't save them and apparently Mega houndoom has same Ap as mega gyaradose which was overpowering them But mcx defeated mega houndoom in starting of the series and remind you both ash greninja and mcx are relative to 50% zygarde but they got cooked even with the help of other by giant rock which had only portion of zygarde cells All i am saying that ash greninja nearly winning against mega gardevoir was just inconsistent powerscaling

[@KuroBlitz]

So glad someone points out the fact that Mega Evolving is THE factor to show Diantha wasn't holding back. Kudos. The Moonblast debate goes null and void once you realize it's a move that requires time to charge, it's not optimal.

[@Pokiiii62]

HOLY, FINALLY SOMEONE REALIZES 🙌

[@lasercraft32]

No? Moonblast does not need time to charge... Its not a solar beam move. :/

[@grah_editz]

@@lasercraft32it literally took ages once gardevoir used moonblast against greninja, even a pressured base greninja dodged that slow attack

[@lasercraft32]

@@grah_editz That was the anime doing its anime thing. Moonblast isn't a two-turn move in the games.

[@grah_editz]

@@lasercraft32 well i was going based off the anime, and in the anime moonblast takes forever to charge

[@losthisgirltothesea]

Nah the real reason Alain beat Ash is because according to Brock, water types are “totally weak against fire types.” Everyone thought he was an idiot or that the writers made an error, but it turns out that Brock was predicting the matchup years later.

[@Pokiiii62]

Aint no way 😭

[@zg468]

No wayyyy, I didn’t know Brock had Future Sight

[@Damnalright]

@@zg468Why do you think he has his eyes always closed? It’s to see into the future of course!

[@ryuuraga1619]

​@@zg468that's why his eyes are always closed. He is watching everything: the past, the present, the future, every timeline and every universe all at once.

[@Kakarot64.]

Brocks never been the same since he watched a Pikachu KO both his Ground/Rock type hybrid pokemon using electric attacks

[@dodinhphu4547]

The main reason Ash lost wasn’t because of Charizard being stronger than Greninja, it was because Bisharp landed 2 Guillotines

[@NostalgicMouse123]

Fr goodra wouldve been such a good help

[@lamnotafk9573]

​@@crimsonzone8984then tell me their levels

[@Void-a7k]

@@crimsonzone8984Didn’t Gen 1 and…. The…. Orange…. Isl-… nah fuck it I’m not using that bs arc as an example it was still a newly obtained Snivy against a fucker who tied with a latios

[@loganmattoon5284]

​@@crimsonzone8984what ur not understanding is that move is (I believe) 10% accurate. Thats the bs of it. The odds are obserd

[@redclay6051]

@@loganmattoon5284 its 30%

[@Roman-Noodlez]

0:59, who taught greninja spinjitsu? He’s flying like a Beyblade 😂

[@Pokiiii62]

FRRRR HOMIE WAS ON THAT TIMING, BRO WAS FRICKING PEGASUS

[@speedgo07]

Say "green ninja" really fast, it sounds like greninja, so pretty much, Lloyd's name (sort of), Jay colors (navy blue), Nyas powers (water), and a mix of Kais, Cole and Zanes personality!

[@Dany-rx7rs]

Ninjago

[@swiftstreak98]

@@speedgo07 NinjaGoooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Ajani-mk2gd]

On that Levi type shi

[@Wendydeez76]

For almost every season their is a random person who come out of nowhere and cooks ash

[@justinjoy3211]

Alain was no random person..he had enough backstory

[@maxrichards3881]

You skipped the mega evolution specials.

[@rax1899]

Ash was cooking him until Bisharp hit him with 2 guillotines

[@serenton1n]

my theory for why greninja lost: they wanted ash to be able to go thru more leagues since they didn't want bro to retire yet 🙏🙏

[@Pokiiii62]

That's the most likely

[@manwhodoesthings]

Retired bro 2 series later.

[@swiftstreak98]

This still would have been a perfect victory for Ash

[@austinmccormick8952]

Makes sense, also he could keep going even if he did win

[@RedRaikou]

It is the truth and everyone knows it

[@Magma-Idiot-2001]

Funny enough, Pikachu hard carried that league fight with Alain (bro beat a Tyranitar, Metagross, AND Alain was forced to call Charizard early to put him down).

[@Pokiiii62]

FRRRR BRO, PIKACHU WAS AN MVP

[@Magma-Idiot-2001]

@@Pokiiii62 bro lost to a Sceptile and just decided to lock in the next round.

[@scurreith3667]

@@Magma-Idiot-2001don’t forget Pikachu had beaten an Aegislash AND Clawitzer before that Sceptile folded him, Pikachu was honestly still MVP even with Greninja as the Ace

[@anothergamer112]

"Ive been asked a lot 'would Hulk or Iron Man win in a fight?' And my answer is who would win...is who the script writer wants to win." -Stan Lee

[@firstbrick-du2xy]

Let's talk about the worst mistake XYZ made: greninja getting released

[@Pokiiii62]

FRRRR

[@aidanhammans9337]

What?

[@Mythicalstories7080]

Tbh Same thats not a Good idea and now Ash has a Lucario that doesnt do anything special besides Mega Evolve it would be cool if Lucario also has a Bond Phenomenon too

[@luzunluzz2906]

Greninja was the strongest Pokemon Ash ever owned (apart from Pikachu) and was the closest thing to a mythical status..you really want him to rot in Oak's lab? Instead he is out saving the world along with legendaries.

[@darkdragon7210]

What No LOVE for Goodra? You should be Ashamed of yourself! Just kidding, but seriously Goodra also getting release as well should be talked about as well!!!

[@JohnZ_GG]

It’s not how he lost for us, it’s that we want Greninja to get the W after mastering the Battle Bond

[@langadube9611]

He did against Sawyer.

[@Kings0424]

Ash losing to Alain in the Kalos League Finale was easily 1 of the 2 most robbed moments in the XY/XYZ and probably top 5 overall in Pokémon history. The fact he got eliminated in the Kanto league because of Charizard sleeping mid fight, then losing in the Hoenn league to a nobody, then losing to Tobias in the Sinnoh league because let's be real, Tobias has all legendary Pokémon so Ash had no chance in winning, then losing to Cameron of all people in the Unova where Cameron though it was 5v5 battle when it was a 6v6 battle and Ash still lost. This Kalos League was the perfect moment for Ash to win and the fact is lost is just crazy. If there was any league that Ash should had won, it was the Kalos League. When Ash lost to Alain in the Finals, me and my girl literally told ourselves that, damn y'all can't give Ash anything. Yeah he won the Alola series but at that point who cared and people still to this day says that Ash vs Hau in the second round of the Alola League is not only one of the worst battles in Pokémon League history but it's also the most controversial win in Ash's career because Hau besr Ash fair and square in that battle so you think Hau is going to the next round but nope, Hau own grandfather had the nerve to help Ash and not make him lose so that Ash can go on and win to advance to the next round and go on to win the Alola League. Talk about plot armor at it's finest

[@Pokiiii62]

BRO I WAS HEATED

[@Kings0424]

@Pokiiii62 Bro I was heated too because for Ash to get brutally beaten by Tobias in the Sinnoh league which he had no chance beating this legendaries, to losing to Cameron in embarrassing fashion in the Unova league where Cameron had only 5 Pokémon and Ash had 6 and Ash still lose to now where it's like, this is best version we had seen from Ash, he's mature, showed growth in strength, he's a better battler, a strong and better character arc like Ash had everything going for him, and yet he gets robbed like this. Bro I swear, this was the moment that almost made me didn't want to watch the Sun & Moon which I didn't even watch anyway because when this moment happened when he got robbed of winning the Kalos League, I just knew the writers was gonna pull off some BS in the Sun & Moon to make him win in the Alola League

[@hellothere-rn3pd]

Ash vs Hau wasn't plot armor

[@Kings0424]

@@hellothere-rn3pd Bruh Ash literally lost to Hau fair and square in that Alola League

[@Esqueletolegal95.]

​@@Kings0424hau didn't beat ash, rowlet was just sleeping

[@luzunluzz2906]

I think they made it up a little when Greninja was the MVP of team Flair arc and was personally chosen by Zygarde to save the world but man that moment still stings a lot..the fact that they made him lose 3 times to the same opponent adds to the frustration.

[@joaozin5061]

I would like to see a mini series with our beloved Kalos quartet to promote Legends ZA, it would be pure marketing to bring Serena, Clemont and Bonnie to promote Kalos, and if possible Ash and Greninja too, and I hope they make a mini series or some appearance in HZ of some of these characters, the perfect time for characters from that time is now.

[@MisterMokuroh]

It still hurts, btw.

[@Pokiiii62]

IT HURTS WATCHING THAT CLIP BRO

[@JoshTrager-j9g]

Agreed!!

[@eliaskyriakou6253]

It will always hurt and to think the anniversary is nearing

[@Persona-Joop-157]

He actually defeated the fire elite four after defeating those 9 Mega evolution pokemon in a row. Those battles and the battles against the legendries made him much stronger that's why Ash lost. side note the kalos league was just a setup for the team flare arc the best evil team arc in the series that was where all the budget and effort was put into by the creators of the pokemon anime

[@Pokiiii62]

From my knowledge, he only beat malva from the elite 4 and lost to siebold... siebold proved he's stronger than Alain, so ash nearly beating dianthia would put him at a higher level

[@dakotayoung1611]

@@Pokiiii62 I agree 100%. Characters getting stronger overtime is a MYTH.

[@Keegan006]

@@Pokiiii62​​⁠dude I’m sorry but your logic is not good that’s liek saying goku is weak cuase he lost to radius Or for a better example with pokemon Thats liek saying pikachu is weak bc he lost to raichu. You are ignoring the fact the Alain vs seibolg is first special so you are taking Alain at his weakest and saying he should lose vs ash at his strongest. Like I’m sorry but this whole thing came across as bias from not being up the primal, mega ray, seven, zydage 50% the 9 megas and maliva. And we don’t k or who is stronger broke the kalso e4 just like with unova due to them changing how in game the leagues works so at worst we have to assume they are equal strength. Again while I atlest get your arguments you did a really poor job in my view dude hell your argument vs seibold dude even said you did well with a type disadvantage

[@GameZone-ib7eu]

@@Pokiiii62Alain faced Siebold in the very first episode of the Mega Evolution specials. It was before facing all the legendaries,10 megas and Kalos League. Alain defeats Malva in episode 4 where Charizard was almost at his lowest and he defeats Mega Houndoom who was at full strength. Mind you he had already defeated 9 megas previously back to back without break. And then Alain goes on to collect all 8 badges in the span of 7 episodes and sweeps throughout the tournament and reaches the finals only using 2 Pokemon. Alain was undoubtedly stronger than Ash at that point

[@scurreith3667]

@@GameZone-ib7eusomething else to point out is calling it a ‘face off’ between Charizard and the Primals and Mega Rayquaza is being INSANELY charitable since Charizard literally got oneshot both times and got beaten very badly in a single hit from 50% Zygarde, so saying Alain’s Charizard actually faced off with those legendary Pokémon is cope at best, but let’s also not forget Ash Greninja vs Mega Charizard 2, that was when Ash had proven he could face down Alain reasonably well, and it wasn’t even 3 episodes later that Ash would nearly defeat Diantha which helps sell the scaling that Ash was on Alain’s level, and for the people who wants to say that 9 Mega’s + Malva’s Mega Houndoom is equal to Diantha, Diantha’s Gardevoir was able to one shot Wikstrom’s Mega Scizor in one hit.

[@Nebula-yv7bs]

Im betting its cause charizard a Fire/flying type becomes fire/dragon type dragon is resistant to water so water moves don't do much

[@DullaZulla]

you have a good point @Nebula-yv7bs but he's still half fire type so it does nutural damage plus greninja landed like 2 water shurikens so it didnt effect the fight that much

[@yourlocalshinyquilava]

@@DullaZullayou are right this works with a lot of other types too.

[@Chillin-jg8vg]

He already said in the video type match ups doesn't matter.

[@atogon_art]

Whenever I think about Pokemon, I think about this defeat and get pissed. Again. To this day.

[@JoshTrager-j9g]

I'm still not over it 8 years later. It still royally pisses me off to this day. 😡

[@Achreeved]

@@JoshTrager-j9g damn its been 8 years?

[@JoshTrager-j9g]

@@Achreeved It has. Crazy, huh?

[@Achreeved]

@@JoshTrager-j9g I remember watching it on tv dang

[@aureliamastergoomba1278]

Here’s my two theories as to why: 1) The strongest Pokémon Greninja has beaten at that point were Mega Abamasnow, Mega Sceptile, and almost Mega Gardevior, while Charizard had finished off a Zygarde (It didn’t win one on one entirely because Team Flare was already fighting it, but Alain’s Mega-Zard X still did put in a decent amount of work to defeat it). 2) It’s possible due to Alain battling Megas to get data Team Flare used for corrupting Zygarde, it’s possible that the more Megas that Charizard beats or battles, the stronger the Mega form becomes for the specific key stone and Charizardite X. This would also explain why Leon had a very easy time beating him, because it wasn’t an insanely buffed Mega stone anymore. I do feel like now both Pikachu and/or Greninja have the ability to take it down in a 1 on 1 when Charizard is Mega Evolved, maybe even Lucario, but it’s not as strong as the original Mega Evolution items they had.

[@c-a-t-entertinment7075]

Pokeeee cooking fine back to back dang

[@Pokiiii62]

Haha, thanks, friend 💙

[@Kings0424]

Let him cook

[@RED_XLR]

I can surmize the BS fight loss with 1 word. Critical-Hit.

[@soumyadityaagarwalla1517]

Another 3 word, higher level opponent

[@sylveon_thedragonslayeryo]

I remember when I was a kid I hated how Ash lost, but after a rewatch I actually really like how it ended up. Sure, it's frustrating, but I like how it shows that Alain actually enjoyed battling for once, as opposed to every other instance he has battled where he was doing it just so he could get stronger (at least I think so, I haven't rewatched the mega specials yet). Cool video, brought me back to simpler times lol

[@futureDreamer4]

Greninja was going to win but the company decided to bring in the BW writers to make Ash lose this fight.

[@Pokiiii62]

BRO FRRRR

[@PokePlayFusions]

3:30 balls realized ladies dont have any Used socks 😂

[@derricklee7764]

Wish Ash and Alan did a rematch in the Master 8

[@Pokiiii62]

Same here, friend... I did do a video on that, though, how it would go down in a past video!

[@Achreeved]

wouldnt be right without greninja tho :sadge:

[@derricklee7764]

@@Achreeved true

[@Mimikins777]

Just Love your videos and i love how u glorify my favourite greninija !!!! u should also try some fan fiction with him , like battling leon and diantha rematch and defeating harrison , there are really a bunch of ideas you can go for !!!

[@Winzlander]

Me: *Reads title* Me: Plot

[@darkdragon7210]

I HOPE Pokemon/ Game Freak/ Nintendo releases a Champion Edition Blu Ray with all the Kalos Seasons, Movies, even changing a few episodes most notably the Ash x Serena episodes, but most Importantly making Ash the Champion hence why its called Kalos Champion Edition!!! Maybe he Loses to the 1st E4 showing he has more to Learn! Maybe have Serena WIN the Kalos Queen as well!!! It Ends with Ash changing his Ticket to Serena's Flight and chasing her down KISSING her & getting on the Plane with her!!!

[@darkdragon7210]

OH, and the Mega Evolution Specials as well!!!

[@joaozin5061]

I would like to see a mini series with our beloved Kalos quartet to promote Legends ZA, it would be pure marketing to bring Serena, Clemont and Bonnie to promote Kalos, and if possible Ash and Greninja too, and I hope they make a mini series or some appearance in HZ of some of these characters, the perfect time for characters from that time is now.

[@Entity3030Animations]

In reality Greninja would glaze that overrated lizard ☠️

[@langadube9611]

Define reality with these fictional creatures. Is it the games which can be changed and adjusted in a heartbeat or the anime which the writers decide who wins.

[@Th3MidGam3rxx]

you saying long ago makes me feel old; XY was my first pokemon series which set things at a really high bar

[@Ashgrininjaxyz2Luffy-zb3px]

It was stated by Clemont twice and Trevor once and that charzard kept hanging in there mega charzard greatest strength was it's durability and endurance. Plus ash also lost for the team flare arc so his and Alain's character arcs and everyone else could be completed. Ash winning the kalos league undercuts the team flare arc. The team flare arc was always the climax of xy

[@Pokiiii62]

I don't understand how ash winning undercuts the team flare arc like you said...

[@Roman-Noodlez]

Solution: Place the team flare arc after the semi-finals and before the finals to make it all the more climactic

[@Matt-eh2dy]

@@Roman-Noodlez One issue I have with this take: They’ve never put a league arc on hold to have a villain arc interrupt it in any other series so that’s why they didn’t do it with XYZ either. And no, Alola League doesn’t count as the finals happened before the Guzzlord interruption.

[@Zet1817]

That moment when you realise XYZ writers swapped ash winning script last second because of SM

[@rainer999]

Yep, that’s… probably it…

[@Zet1817]

@@rainer999 no no. That is an actual reason

[@eliaskyriakou6253]

They changed the script the moment Charizard was tripping and that’s why he stopped and Greninja fell

[@Rexred09]

Greninja should’ve gotten night slash instead of Cut.

[@Pokiiii62]

I agree, but the cut looking like a kunai was so cold though 😭

[@Rexred09]

@@Pokiiii62true dat

[@Roman-Noodlez]

THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY! that one teensy little push (not really cause it would do double damage after stab) would’ve won them the league

[@hyperstargaming6150]

Yeah, so that was an unfortunate translation thing. What Ash called Greninja to use and what the Japanese name of Cut is are NOT the same thing, and they had to somewhat dumb it down in dubs thus reducing the move to Cut. Ash told Greninja to use “Iaido” which translates to a Japanese Blade Martial Art focused on the most efficient movements in defense, control, and killing all from the moment you touch the hilt of the sword. The official translation of Cut however is “Iai Giri,” which is absolutely NOT what Ash told Greninja. However, it’s the closest to Iaido when it comes to similar Japanese words, so that’s why he has Cut. Not to mention, the writers didn’t want Greninja to use a move that literally translates in Japanese to “Crossroad Killing” for someone as heroic as Ash’s Greninja. In Japan, Dark is actually the Evil Type, and Night Slash is Crossroad Killing. Info dump, but it’s quite interesting to read! Made me feel a little better about Greninja’s anime moveset when seeing that it’s just a translation shortcut and not Greninja legitimately knowing Cut.

[@levievil9220]

Wait I got an idea cut evolves into night slash and it keeps the kunai aspect

[@ipotatosenpai7002]

Greninja vs Gardevoir went so hard, the animation, voice acting, music and all(japanese vers ofc)

[@HappyVeiwer]

The mega evolution specials were set ages before xyz tho u can tell cuz the events in the 4th episode of mega evolution were said to be a year before ash met olympia

[@Theanimeguy78]

Video idea: ranking every pokemon theme song from each series

[@Pokiiii62]

WOAH THATS ACTUALLY AN AMAZING IDEA

[@blitz4779]

Major issue with this is it fails to bring up when alain lost to seibold. He lost to him in the first mega evolution special, meaning this was alain at his weakest. Its after that when hes contending with champion steven Surviving hits from primal groudon and mega rayquaza Kept up with 50% zygarde Beating TEN mega trainers in a row, not 9. You left out him beating E4 Malva. So the seibold loss is made up here decently And beating all of the kalos gym leaders in record time (one of which that gave the incomplete ash greninja a good thrashing) Ash basiclly beating diantha is impressive, im not saying otherwise. But if thats your only argument for ash beating alain, im sorry but i cant agree. Alain has shown far better and more consistent feats then XYZ Ash

[@scurreith3667]

I think you’re forgetting Diantha’s Gardevoir oneshot Wikstrom’s Mega Scizor when you say that… and for someone who accuses of ‘disregarding Malva’ you sure did quickly jump to Ash Greninja vs Charizard 1 to say he thrashed him around without acknowledging their next fight Incomplete Ash Greninja knocked Charizard to the ground with enough strength that it took a while for it to get back up, also, ‘survived hits’ from Primal Groudon and Rayquaza is a real stretch since each hit immediately took Charizard out of the fight, and Zygarde severely damaged Charizard with a single attack. Beating the gym leaders in record time isn’t really much to write home about either considering Ash beat them with far weaker Pokémon since he was still going through his journey. And once again, clear scaling issues with Diantha as a champion in the show being head and shoulders above the E4.

[@rainer999]

Yeah, sorry, I still have to give this to Ash. Greninja just has the more impressive feat of winning against Diantha while not at his Prime yet while we don’t even see Alain beating any champion level trainers. Steven he could contend with, yeah, but Diantha was getting her ass handed to her with an “complete” Ash-Greninja that they could barely control for one attack (I mean the “complete” form, obviously she also had her ass handed to her with just the water veil form.)

[@MysteryS4869]

To be fair, if Ash Greninja using their bond were fighting Alain with a regular megastone instead of Alain with a enhanced megastone from Team Flare, Ash may have won that final fight and emerge as the champion instead of being stopped at the semi-finals. He was robbed from winning that one cause one can argue the "enhanced" megastone gave Charzard more tankyiness to hits. At the very least, Ash wouldn't have losted but the match should've been a tie with a double knockout after both sides unleashed a big move (trading blows essentially) and then proceeded to take that move head on instead of dodging it.

[@rainer999]

@@MysteryS4869 This too, I can’t believe I forgot that Charizard was on the Mega form of Steroids.

[@subhasishghosh6924]

@@rainer999 Beating 9 megas + an E4 member in a row is on par with overpowering a champion's ace. Not to mention, Steven is considered one of the strongest champions there is, on par with Cynthia and is likely stronger than Diantha is. And Diantha likely was holding back and just got caught off guard

[@lasercraft32]

I'm still mad that Ash Greninja's super powered _water_ shuriken got beaten out by a freaking FIRE TYPE MOVE! I don't care how strong of a move it is, water had the advantage, _and_ was powered up.

[@aetherofviatortheoutlander2118]

Water Shuriken is a weak move tho. And like he says, types doesn't really matter in the anime.

[@langadube9611]

Let's be honest if Pikachu didn't tire himself out with two pseudo legendaries he could've beaten Alain's Charizard.

[@langadube9611]

Here's the truth no one wants to admit. Greninja could never be that guy. Ash's true ace is Pikachu. Greninja was never going to take Ash to the top.

[@i_like_chomp6382]

The real reason why Ash lost was almost certainly due to the narrative the writers wanted to establish. Like it or not Alain is a main character in the story, he also has a story arc to complete. Alain for all his good intentions was selfish and power hungry, wanting to earn the title as the best mega evolution trainer, even if it means working with shady people and collaborating with the villains, something he himself is suspicious of. By winning the Kalos League, Alain ‘finishes’ his goal of becoming the greatest mega evolution trainer but at the cost of facilitating Lysander’s plan of destroying the world, something Ash is shocked by. While Alain may be the winner of the Kalos League, Ash becomes the Hero of Kalos itself, something greater than winning any league. It wouldn’t make narrative sense for Ash to both win the Kalos League and be the Hero of Kalos, as these two titles are supposed to be in used as a comparison for both Ash and Alain’s ideals. Ash may have lost the battle, but he is ultimately a better trainer than Alain will ever be, simply due to his willingness to stick to his own morals and beliefs whereas Alain abandons them. The Pokemon anime at its core is a children’s show, aimed at teaching younger audiences valuable life lessons. Winning isn’t everything, it’s about how you win is a moral that is hard to actually portray but I believe the XY anime did very well for the most part. From a battle perspective there is also the fact that Ash simply faced stronger opponents and thus his Pokemon were just not performing at their best. Alain only needed Metagross and Charizard to beat his opponent in the semi finals and Charizard barely broke a sweat. This is contrast to Greninja where although it definitely had the momentum still was forced to go as far as it could up to that point against Sceptile. I can’t stress enough how important stamina is. It’s why Ash did not use Infernape against Darkrai, and until Paul, did not use any of his team members from their battle in lake acuity.

[@spinotikus1518]

"The Pokemon anime at its core is a children’s show, aimed at teaching younger audiences valuable life lessons. Winning isn’t everything, it’s about how you win is a moral that is hard to actually portray but I believe the XY anime did very well for the most part." When a product ad promoting poaching lectures me about morality 😏

[@i_like_chomp6382]

@@spinotikus1518 Always has tbh lmaoooo, especially considering the first villains were actual poachers.

[@hxdqe-9374]

I remember crying the day he lost

[@Pokiiii62]

Bro, little me was tearing up bro I was traumatized 😭

[@Th3MidGam3rxx]

The plot armor was nuts😡

[@OneAutumnLeafff]

Ash with type advantage 🤡 Ash without type advantage 💀

[@Pokiiii62]

Honestly real 😭

[@JamesLiddy-wq4le]

Having not watched this, Alain had way too much plot armour

[@theonlineninja7596]

The answer really is just VERY simple, Alain's Charizard is simply stronger and WAY more experienced than Ash's Greninja, yes Greninja took on and defeated Wulfric's Mega Abomasnow and Sawyer's Mega Sceptile, but Alain's Charizard has a LOT more feats, like dodging a Primal Groudon's Precipice Blades and slicing through one of them with Dragon Claw, defeating 10 Mega Evolved Pokemon in a row (one of them being used by Malva, an Elite Four member) temporarily holding its own against Zygarde (Z2) before Team Flare interrupted to capture it, and taking on who knows how many Mega Trainers off screen. And yes, while Greninja did battle against and SEEMINGLY almost defeat Diantha's Gardevoir, Diantha is VERY much likely holding back in that battle and Greninja simply caught her off-guard. There's also the fact that in non-serious battles, Diantha often lets her opponent go first, but in more serious battles like her Masters 8 battle against Lance, she often takes the initiative to go first, and during the battle Diantha was spamming Shadow Ball through MOST of the battle instead of going for super effective Moonblasts. And we know that Diantha's Gardevoir is capable of using a LOT more power as seen in the battle against the Giant Rock in the Team Flare arc, we see Diantha's Gardevoir FLYING AROUND with Psychic and spamming Moonblasts, and then in Diantha's battle against Leon, Gardevoir is seen using Psychic to COUNTER G-Max Wildfire, Charizard's strongest attack and is the ONLY Pokemon in the entirety of the Masters 8 to do so.

[@Crafterfox484]

Mhmmm yes “sweating her socks off” totally Great video btw!!

[@Pokiiii62]

Thank you friend!

[@spontaneouswizard358]

You know it’s actually funny, another Pokémon KZbinr, Nether Busters actually did the a similar video around the same time you did talking about the same topic! I couldn’t believe it. It’s definitely quite an interesting topic overall I think.

[@voltingmaster5458]

4:04 Speaking of type matchups, One thing I won’t stand for is how people say that Greninja should’ve survived Blast Burn like it has Wonder Guard, Resist Doesn’t Equal Immune!

[@Pokiiii62]

Frrr

[@sukrieomar9071]

Well, Steven Metagross withstood that Blast Burn though

[@voltingmaster5458]

⁠​⁠@@sukrieomar9071 News Flash: not every pokemon is a Shedinja, just because a move is super effective doesn’t mean it should die in one hit. And just because a move is not very effective doesn’t mean it shouldn’t faint. Ash Greninja Vs Mega Sceptile is a clear example of both.

[@goatslayer3160]

It didnt help that his moves were water shuriken, aerial ace, double team, and CUT!

[@BhargavN10]

Everything you said is okay but you are missing one very crucial information. When Alain lost to Siebold it was at the beginning of the Mega evolution special. After that he faced primal legendaries and zygarde and defeated 10 mega Pokemon including Malva of elite four and most importantly His strength rivaled Steven Stone. Alain only grew stronger after his defeat against Siebold

[@michaelp3609]

Bingo, it’s like using indigo league ash and saying well he lost to brock who is only a gym leader 🙃 Alain never lost to anyone so weak. See how stupid that is?

[@JonyxKenshin]

Plot that’s how, saved yall 6 minutes 🤑🤑🤑

[@Pokiiii62]

It's not that simple, bro 💀

[@acoolguy3785]

not gonna lie i remeber as a kid i watched pokemon alot, but even then after XYZ i realized how crappy that ending was, and i just couldn't watch it anymore In my opinion and to me Pokémon XYZ was actual peak Pokémon, Definitely not when it comes to the games Everything was perfect The release of Mega Evolutions was something new and a fun addition, Pokémon finally had a actual romantic arc For once in the story, Serena was the first poke girl to actually be An overall sweet person rather than snarky and smug with ash, How much hype with Ash and Greninja both Not to mention the fact that Pokémon XYZ was the first one to actually have a character own a legendary throughout the whole series Which was a nice twist, The ending with the kiss, it seemed like everything was perfect As a kid, I remember the ending of everything, And even back then, I feel like the only reason why they wanted to continue Pokémon was for the sake of the cash But to me, still to this day, I think XY and Z would have made The perfect finale

[@pokemon18ish]

I say it's for multiple reasons. One Alain had more time to master mega-evolution. Don't get me wrong, Ash almost defeating Diantha is a note-worthy feat, especially when Ash-Greninja took no damage against Mega-Gardevoir. Still, Alain used Mega Evolution long before Ash and Greninja unlocked this power. Another reason for Ash-Greninja's defeat was Alain's arc. I can't say for sure if his arc would have reached the same conclusion if Ash had won, but who knows? At least Alain was an established character throughout the whole XY series. Not a last-minute addition.

[@darkdragon7210]

While you are Right about Alain getting more time to Master Mega Evolution, you're also Wrong because Charizard was already in its Final Form where as Greninja had to start out as 1st Stage Froakie meaning it had more to work toward. What about Alain's arc? That's True.

[@numsei-9291]

And Dragon is resistant to Water, so that means that Charizard only took 1x dmg

[@darkdragon7210]

@@numsei-9291 Pikachu Hit what 2-3 Thunder Bolts!!!

[@numsei-9291]

@@darkdragon7210 Dragon is resistant to Grass, Fire, Water and Electric, and considering the fact that Electric deals 1x dmg to Fire, and Dragon resists It, Pikachu dealt 0,5x dmg, making It 40 Power per ThunderBolt, which is equivalent to Scratch, Tackle or Quick Attack

[@darkdragon7210]

@@numsei-9291 Yeah, but Pikachu Hit Charizard Before it Mega Evolved! Charizard in its regular form is Fire Flying, Electric deals 2x dmg to Flying so each ThunderBolt was doing 2.5-3 dmg & since it was used 2-3 times, that means it Equates to about the Full Power of ThunderBolt!! Meaning Ash-Greninja should Finished off that Stupid Fire Dragon!!!

[@Jadinite-2006]

How I would Rework the Gen 6 Anime Series: - New Pokemon Teams for our Main Characters. - Mega Kalos Starters (if they do have them in Pokemon Legends Z-A). - A Team Rocket Arc focusing on Volcanion (without Magearna). - Xerneas & Yveltal having a bigger role in the story to fit within the Mega Evolution Specials. - Ash WINNING against Alain. - AZ also being apart of the story and reuniting with his Eternal Form Floette at the end of his little arc. - Have the Series extended to Hoenn as to tie in the Gen 3 Remakes (Feat. Ash, Serena, & May). I would imagined a Battle between Primal Groudon & Kyogre Vs. Mega Latias & Latios, with Rayquaza coming in to save their butts at the last moment. Bonus: My Headcanon is that the First Greninja that had the Battle Bond Form before Ash's was a Shiny & a Female.

[@MavrickBruns-oj6nz]

that was sheer sadness when i was younger

[@DullaZulla]

let's be real here ash greninja had the dub in the bag its just that it was too early for ash to win a league at the time plus it would've made more sense if he won with pikachu since he's basically the mc also ash and greninja just mastered battle bond theres still much more we dont know about (like the golden shuriken at the end of alain and ash's battle), it would've been cool if ash and alain rematched in the masters 8 cant wait for tale of zygarde btw

[@Pokiiii62]

SAME FRIEND, I CANT WAIT EITHER!! (also I really wished he won as well lol)

[@darkdragon7210]

How was it "too early for Ash to WIN a League" the Shinnoh League while a Bust Yeah was meant to show how far he'd come, BW Unova NEVER Should've been a F%^**%$ Reboot, People were actually watching Pokemon, it was the 20th Anniversary, and the Title was Kalos League Victory : Ash's Ultimate Battle, add all those factors together & you have the PERFECT TIME for him to WIN the League!!!

[@langadube9611]

​@@darkdragon7210Dude narrative wise Ash-Greninja became a problem. Pikachu is Ash's ace and as cool as Ash-Greninja is he was really making Ash's partner look less relevant, even though Pikachu did arguably better in the League than Greninja taking out more pokemon.

[@darkdragon7210]

@@langadube9611 How was Ash-Greninja a Problem? Pikachu may have been the Ace, but there's also a Regional Ace for each Team, which is what Ash-Greninja was!!!

[@langadube9611]

@@darkdragon7210 Yeah but the difference is the other reginal aces were allowed to lose. As powerful as Charizard, Sceptile, Krookadile and Infernape were, they were allowed to lose and take the backseat if necessary. Charizard was treated as that guy but he was allowed to lose early in the Brandon battle because it was time for the other starters to get some shine. There is no scenario I can see Ash-Greninja getting Knocked Out early without even facing the other trainers ace of that team. That is why Greninja had to go. The XY writers created a problem where he had to be treated more special than anyone else. If it was just regular Mega Evolution there are ways around that but a ultra special one of a kind form. Yeah try selling him losing in a believable way after mastering the form.

[@ishan61]

For the Plot.

[@Kakarot64.]

maybe Ash would have a better chance if he actually focused on levelling up a strong team and not constantly swapping to a new team every season.

[@dralx2042]

I never got to watch the XY specials, so this was news to me..... NOW I CAN GO BACK TO MY XY COPIUM

[@isaachiltyhilty6804]

NGL when I was a Kid and Having this series be why Greninja is my favorite Pokemon this hurt me there have been times when I have rewatched the whole Kalos league besides this because this made me upset as a kid lol! Also Greninja should've comeback for the Master's 8 to rematch Alan!

[@franklynchacha803]

that’s a very good question. i’ve been asked that question for a while now…

[@Charmaster04]

Maybe the power from that first battle was subconsciously regulated going forward because it was simply more than Ash and Greninja could cope with? That would be my best guess.

[@eliaskyriakou6253]

After Greninja transformed and landed just one move Diantha said something about them not standing a chance if that makes contact. This is living proof she was being serious in the battle.

[@davidmallette8079]

The thing about Alan's charizard is in near every battle in the tournament, it tanked it second last hit maybe more than once in some fights. You see the death blow by the second battle, the one Pokémon did it to the mega form then mega form it's self. Alan would have been beat before getting to Ash.

[@MysteryS4869]

Trading blows between Ash and Alain's Pokemon, both sides could've just choose "evade" that lethal move or at least put up a defensive move for it right after instead of just taking the move head on. We could honestly blame the writers who wanted to end the fight at that point cause fighting long-term Ash-Greninja would probably come out on top cause Greninja has more speed and is a smaller target while Charzard, with it's fair decent amount of speed flying around the arena with his wings, is a much bigger target to hit. His water shuriken was enhanced but I wouldn't say it's a weak move but more of a move that doesn't exactly require Greninja to be in close range to fight Charzard as much as his other moves like Cut, Aerial Ace, and Double Team but a move that depends solely on accuracy. What's the point of putting that much distance between yourself and the other if you weren't gonna use that window of opportunity to either put up a defense or go with evasion tactics to lessen the dmg taken? Writers fault 100% wanting Alain to win the champion title and give Ash the hero title instead for saving their region from Team Flare's master plan.

[@Pulse_Animates]

Till this day I want a 1 AND 1 REMATCH BETWEEN THEM

[@inktirrell5016]

Dog In Sinnoh Ash Was Runner Up, Also I Think It's Cause Charizard's Dragon Typing That Also Contributed To Greninja's Loss Despite His Giant Golden Water Shuriken. (Also Greninja's Power Out Put Of Battle Bond Is Akin To Infernape's Blazed-Form And Charizard Still Won Somehow😑) (Sorry Ash Got Top Four In Sinnoh My Bad)

[@Pokiiii62]

Wait what, no? He got top 4

[@inktirrell5016]

@@Pokiiii62 Wait Really!? But Didn't Tobias Get The Sinnoh League Trophy After Beating Ash? Wait No I Was Wrong Sorry, It Was After Tobias Beat Some Foder That He Got The Trophy.

[@darkdragon7210]

@@Pokiiii62 Speaking of it really is SHAMEFUL of that Pokemon didn't show Ash's Battle for Bronze Trophy!!! 👿👿👿👿 and Standing on the Podium!!!

[@kamikreideprinz1916]

Didn't the XY/XYZ specials take place before the XYZ series? If that's the case couldn't that imply Alan simply got stronger?

[@jalenharris9374]

Great Video Man. I like the points use in your videos to make logical arguments. However, I do think Alain was the stronger trainer. All of Alain's feats happened after his fight with Siebold. So you could say he got stronger after fighting Siebold. Especially after gaining experience from fighting 4 high tier legendaries and absorbing Mega evolution energy from gym leaders and random trainers. Not to mention beating another elite four member after fighting 8 Mega evolution in a row. Even if you says Malva is the weakest elite four member that is still a crazy feat. All these feats happened after his lost against Siebold. Even if Ash's greninja is stronger than Diantha's Gardevior. I would say Alain low key soloing a 50% Zygarde is way more impressive. So I still believe Alain was the stronger trainer based of all his feats and him growing stronger since the battle with Siebold.

[@renzetsuvr9989]

4:32 is that undertale music in the background??!!

[@anuraag.deshpande]

Ash should have won that one for for sure. XYZ was by far the best season of the series ever, and he was definitely outperforming Alain, so atp it's just true that the writers probably hate him for some reason.

[@T.S.K.K.894]

What I Found Stupid Is That Greninja Could Just Jump Away From The Blastburn In The Last Minute

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

It could also be that Alain's charizard got stronger in the between his fight with siebold and his fight with ash. It's been awhile since Ive seen the anime but wasn't siebold Alains first major roadblock? Alain would later defeat another member of the kalos Elite four proving his growth.( Mind you he did this after running a gauntlet. Of course not all of them would be elite four level but I can't imagine Lysandre would pick a bunch of jabronies.) Lastly and I think you're the one who made a video about this. Alain still had his old mega ring in that fight, meaning that every time Alain fough a mega pokemon he collected more energy to power up charizard. Also Ash Greninja lost to the ice type Gym leader so unless you want to say that that guy was a champion level trainer. We have to chalk up Ash Greninja's fight with Gardevoir as an outlier.

[@Pokiiii62]

First and foremost, there have been gym leaders in the past that are champion level. Raihan and Wallace are prime examples of this, so for wulfric to be champion level isn't a stretch. Secondly, the mega ring theory is just that, a theory of which I used as an example as to why I thought alain could've gotten weaker. And we don't know the exact timeline of the xy specials and the actual series, but it can't be months upon months of time since remember that Ash's Journey is all within one year. So it's very unlikely that he had some huge power spike in between episodes But very good analysis and honestly a very good argument, stand Proud your strong lone wolf 👌

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

@Pokiiii62 cool thanks. Though I will agree, Ash should have won Kalos. I firmly believe Sinnoh was his best performance, but Kalos isn't far behind. I just think Sinnoh would've been a better end because Ash was doing everything correctly. He brought back his old pokemon to help him. He was fighting his best rival paul and by defeating Paul Ash vindicated his training methods. Love and patience are the way to go when it comes to raising pokemon. We also had the conclusion of Infernapes story it was, in my opinion, the perfect recipe for Ash's first league victory... The writers disagreed. I'm also less angry about the loss in Kalos because it made more sense than the loss in Sinnoh.

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

@Pokiiii62 Timelines also don't seem to matter much when it comes to training pokemon. You can make a champion level team in just a few months, apparently. Remember Ash became world champion with a team of pokemon he had for less than a year. Though I guess that applies to all his pokemon since Ash doesn't seem to age

[@Roman-Noodlez]

@@LoneWolf-xe6yeHe trained like 69 different pokemon to fight in leagues 💀. Also Alain’s mega ring was juiced tf up, that’s why he was so weak in Journeys

[@mapleshadow22070]

its not inconsistent with alain cus he got way stronger after specials 1 when he fought siebold which is his weakest version, the next special he fights on par with champion steven's mega metagross and fights the weather trio, then in specials 4 he one taps elite 4 malva's mega houndoom after already beating 9 other megas before with no rest, then in xyz he's able to fight on par with 50% zygarde, and even champion cynthia's garchomp couldn't do anything to a legendary like landorus, and also before he fought siebold he almost lost to remo's garchomp but then in the league he no diffs him even after remo was training every day to beat him

[@Pokiiii62]

Bro... Dianthia is ranked higher than Alain is in the masters 8 tournament, greninja is stronger by far 😭🙏

[@mapleshadow22070]

@Pokiiii62 yeah current greninja is stronger, and alain got nerfed and retconned in the masters 8, he shouldn't even have been in it cus it breaks his character, and ranks don't matter cus it's based on more wins and who climbed up fastest, lance was ranked 2 one time but is now ranked 4 and above diantha and still lost to her, iris was ranked 7 and almost beat Cynthia if she didn't mega evolve, ash was ranked 8 and beat the top 3 ranked trainers

[@bdagamingx7128]

I agree with you but I don't like the idea of power scaling pokemon like this. The system is balanced in a way that a good strategy cam overcome strength. Like if I brought a level 1 bidoof against alain with a focus sash and I win, does it make me stronger than him and everyone he beat? Not necessarily

[@Pokiiii62]

Yeah your right cuz your analogy doesn't work like that

[@shahstranusy]

Regardless even if ash did win, He would’ve gotten handed by the Elite 4 and it would’ve been even more heartbreaking

[@Pokiiii62]

No, he wouldn't? He legit nearly beat the champion of the kalos region dawg 💀😭

[@darkdragon7210]

How so, if anything it'd be Better since it'd show he has got a lot more to learn!!!

[@shahstranusy]

@@Pokiiii62 plot armor 💀

[@grah_editz]

@@shahstranusy plot armor being copium mechanisms as always

[@shahstranusy]

@@grah_editz like he would win anyways

[@Netherwolf6100]

Its def a writers situation. One of the rules for canceling Ash as the main star of the pokemon anime was for him to win a league. Once he did, that would be a sign that his journey is coming to an end. The series wasn't ready to let go of Ash, so they had to manufacture a loss. Its a damn shame too. They can't imagine the idea of someone winning a championship and then thinking "Hey, let's try to win a second time!"

[@BlackFlash09]

Maybe water isn't super effective against a fire/dragon dual type. Let me know if this isn't correct.

[@RavenRedzilla]

IDK it is true or not i read in internet that Battle bond Greninja (ash-Greninja ) state take 0.5× extra energy to swing they're minds that says if normally Greninja can battle for like 30m but ash Greninja can only battle like 20m (soorry for bad English, it is not my first language )

[@giurado6485]

For the same logic: wulfric should be dianthas level? 2nd: siebold prefered using immediately the supereffective move 3rd: alain could face against an e4 while ash still didn't have a greninja, so greninja lost because it didn't have the same experience, keep in mind that, charizard fought 9 megaevolutions + an e4 in a row and won so it has more resistance. I think the writers should have let alan defeat siebold during xyz so the win in the league would be more justified or ash should have fought an e4 pre league and lose without fainting mid fight. This was so avoidable imo, they could have just tied the battle, it ends in a tie and they both win, ash doesn't feel like he deserves it and ash still goes to alola and plot is untouched.

[@Pokiiii62]

Holy, you don't know how to listen, do you? 1: Wallace and raihan are living proof that gym leaders can be at the champion level, so wulfric being dianthia level isn't a stretch 2. I literally explained how type match ups don't matter, and you completely ignored all of that because you couldn't come up with a better argument, huh 💀

[@giurado6485]

@@Pokiiii62 yea you might be right 💀

[@alyssrosea]

"He isn't Leon" well ain't that the truth.

[@goldam1986]

My reason is because I feel he should have focused on battling and defeating, what he original intended to defeat. "All mega evolutions" but then someone decided he should just become champion of Kalos. It's a problem to me when someone makes a character go against there dream. Then when I saw him in the gen 8 anime. I was like. "Oh no, what's he doing here. Eliminate him, eliminate him" And while I do think they rushed that battle. I still say. "Justice has been served."

[@darkdragon7210]

Can you do Dawn vs Zoe at the Shinnoh Grand Festival? Cause Dawn was ROBBED there as well!!!

[@Pokiiii62]

I agree!!! I do have to rematch diamond and pearl for that though!

[@Unfunnyjestr]

Because xyz was so popular they wanted to continue the series that’s why he lost

[@kenerb654]

Before watching this video I was on Team Alain’s side of the win, but I never did hear this side of the argument including the loss to Siebold and the scaling to the Champion that Ash almost beat. So let me try and get in on the conversation for fun. I’m not gonna only discredit Ash’s win over Diantha for now, but I’ll say and acknowledge the power scaling of Pokemon at times can fluctuate for the sake of plot and it’s happened time and time again. My main response is simply asking why can’t we factor in that Alain (Charizard) got stronger after his loss with Siebold? If I’m remembering correctly, after that loss is all the other Charizard feats of him stalemating with Steven’s Ace Mega Metagross, and boxing with the Primal Legendaries. I think the fact alone that Steven couldn’t handle Groudon and Kyogre solo needing Alain’s help and they held on for awhile 2v2 tells me Alain is comparable to Steven here. I just can’t bring myself to think two Elite Four members of a given region can be sent out and fair close to even with the Box Legendaries of their region like that, it looked and feels like a Champion and above feat. Minor second point here, didn’t they state Charizard beat 9 megas in a row in battle? I think bro’s got the stamina/endurance gap over Greninja as well, We’ve never seen Ash-Greninja form persist past one battle into multiple without having to turn off first. And the power gap between Regular Greninja vs Prime-Ash Greninja seems way bigger than Alain’s charizard and Mega Charizard. In conclusion, even if I accept Non-Prime Ash Greninja > Diantha’s Gardevoir in that fight and Prime Greninja being slightly above that- Alain’s Mega Charizard also got stronger since then and faced all stronger opponents than Ash Greninja w the Legendaries and Steven. I have Steven > Diantha and Alain battled versus and side by side comparable to Steven.

[@Pokiiii62]

Your entire argument is flawed because dianthia is litterally ranked higher than Alain is, meaning she's above Alain and much stronger as well 😭

[@vanguardgaming1779]

I often had myself asking the same question. My main thought was, “why didn’t Greninja jump out of the way after the attack got too close?”

[@kidoblue2]

is that Last Surprise Song by Lyn Inaizumi??? AT 4:47

[@Pokiiii62]

YESSIR PERSONA 5 ROYAL PEAKKKKJ

[@numsei-9291]

Really simple actually! Dragon is resistant to Grass, Fire, Water and Electric, so: Fire + Dragon takes 1x damage from Water.

[@Pokiiii62]

Wait till you realize that type match ups don't matter 😭

[@Mythicalstories7080]

Uhhh Dude u forgot Grenninja is also a Dark Type

[@ГорГеворгян-ч6г]

I'm sure that Tetsuo Yajima (director of XY(Z) saga, and also Movies 21 and 23) is also mad on Game Freak, Nintendo, The Pokemon Company, and TV Tokyo because of this. Just like we. But, my project - Pokemon Mega XY(Z) will restore justice!…

[@monkeygamersquad6962]

Nice vid

[@ryothum2842]

greninja got did dirty

[@michaelp3609]

The Siebold fight happened before all the legendary and 1v9 matches when Alain was at his weakest, his feats after that well prove he deserved the win over Ash.

[@elioschicon6032]

Alain fought siebold way before ash fought diantha, and before the battles you mentioned. maybe he just became better in the mega specials and in xys just as ash and greninja did?

[@Pokiiii62]

A lot of people have been mentioning this, but it's really hard to tell. But even if this is the main argument, dianthia is ranked higher than Alain in the masters 8 tournament, meaning that alain isn't on her level regardless

[@elioschicon6032]

as far as i know rankings weren't made on aces 1v1 but on trainers and their teams

[@sbfan1906]

Ok seriously, people need to stop complaining about this 🙄

[@Pokiiii62]

Its not complaining?

[@sbfan1906]

I know but some people do not shut about it and just move on, especially since Ash's story is now over

[@darkdragon7210]

@@sbfan1906 What part of his story is over? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@69th_Neco_Arc]

@@darkdragon7210 Ash is no longer the pokémon main character...

[@darkdragon7210]

@@69th_Neco_Arc He's still apart of the main cast!

[@pokelover1743]

Alain definitely got a lot stronger in between when he fought Siebold in ME1 and by the end of XYZ. His arc's conclusion would have to be a bit different if he had lost to ash in the kalos league, but if they weren't going to give ash the win, could we at least have gotten a TIE?? We've never had a league where the finalists tied and that would at least show us that they are equals in strength It should also be noted that Diantha WAS testing them at first, but damn she got sidelined FAST after seeing what ash-greninja was really capable of. I wonder if she considered training gardevoir to charge up moonblasts faster haha after that

[@Aislinsweetdreams]

Better question, that was Greninja's first fight, it hadn't KO'd an opponent to trigger battle bond like in the games, so how did it transform?

[@mister0725]

What I dont get is, why they made him lose. The next region was gonna be a holiday/vacation region anyways and the one right after, was going to be the Champion League. It doesn’t make sense that he lost. He could become Kalos League winner, take some holidays and then participate the Champion League. And even if they didn’t wanted him win bc of the series continuity, then they could at least interrupt the Kalos League by Team Flare, that way nobody wins