How Did It Go SO WRONG? Here's What Happened When We Tried a Hummer vs Rivian Charging Drag Race!

[@TFLEV]

check out the actual drag race HERE: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZirY52uhNaWbZY

[@MatthewSerta1]

maybe take this test to the next level, and see how far each car can drive on the same 20 min charge race lol

[@wunderkind56]

I agree with Tommy. It's all about how many miles you can get during a session. This is how you plan your stops on a road trip.

[@WW-wf8tu]

Of course. Between the 2 Tommy has the more down to earth realistic view on things.

[@KalleSWBeck]

Tommy is the best reviewer on TFL now.

[@vxnova1]

💯

[@-Enginerd]

Thank you for being the voice of reason, Tommy! Efficiency absolutely does matter when comparing charging rates. It's amazing how many people don't realize that. It's partially OEMs fault because they keep listing % over time rather than miles over time.

[@edwardamo]

+1 to Tommy for knowing the difference between power and energy. 🙂 (And for defending the range gained per minute metric, even though you still got smoked.)

[@C-Henry]

Forget range anxiety, charging anxiety is really the bigger issue. Last hunting trip I drove 200miles to deer camp, and saw one charging station about 100 miles out. If that one hadn't worked my whole weekend would have been ruined. For a daily commuter an EV may be fine, but as an only vehicle they are way too limiting, and that will continue to be the case until the network is significantly improved, in availability, and reliability.

[@brushlessmotoring]

But how often do you do those trips? If it's every weekend, you have a fair point, but if it's once every couple of months ... living with an EV and renting a truck make more sense (and actually cost less). I would say it's worth renting an EV for one of those weekend trips and assuming the adventure is jus getting there for that weekend - might go horribly, might work out well - but you won't know till you give it a go.

[@C-Henry]

@@brushlessmotoring Rental companies don't like Texas pinstriping, I'd lose my deposit for sure. And that's after setting aside a day on the previous weekend to go get the rental (no agencies close) and paying for it the whole week prior to my trip. Not a good option for a working man, I'm better off sticking with my econobox commuter and old 4x4, I can have both for less than the cost of any EV, and be free to take advantage of what little free time I get. Going electric requires wealth in time and money, both things I'm short on right now.

[@yolanda4731]

I would love to see all 3 EV trucks do a road trip race where they leave at the same time and have a destination several fast charging stations away and see who wins. ( like out of spec did with the electric SUVs)

[@NIAtoolkit]

The charging speed is indeed relative to the battery size, 1C 2C 3C and so on. If you have twice as many buckets, you’ll need twice the flow to fill each bucket at the same rate

[@aussie2uGA]

Correct. Roman was confused that the charger maxed out the charging and the cars couldn’t accept anymore, regardless of their size.

[@MrSparsilis]

Yes and go for 1.5 times the distance stop saying your fine with 160 miles while carrying 4 people that's not realistic if my car can only do 160 and less with that much of a price like the rivian I will drive it strait to the river and push it over !

[@NateSensenig]

A race based on range added calculated by using the EPA estimated range. For example, on Hummer EV, 329 divided by 212 times kWh added.

[@brushlessmotoring]

This - it has to be EPA efficiency, or it might end being skewed by recent driving style.

[@wteslik]

Tommy is of course right - Miles is the metric that matters. The Hummer has to have a higher charging speed because it is such a bad design for an EV given current capabilities - massive battery to compensate for massive weight. If you were at 90% of all fast chargers in the US, which dont have 350, the Hummer would be demonstrably worse in every way.

[@steveallwine1443]

I really like the “miles added in 20 minutes” metric and comparison. Sure there’s a bit of wiggle room on driven efficiency, but I think it’s close enough to give an idea for realistic road trip charging. I’d like to see a Hummer vs. Ioniq 5 for range added. A battle of the 800v vehicles.

[@jghall00]

The issue you run into is that miles added will vary based on your recent driving and temperature. You'll get more miles added if you've been driving around town, but if you're about to go on a roadtrip wigh the heater running the number will be too high. Things you learn driving an EV with 100 miles range.

[@brushlessmotoring]

@@jghall00 you make a good point, it does depend on the software, Tesla's use a fixed 'rated' miles/kWh or kWh/100km number for the battery display in distance, and you have to go into the energy screen to seen the predicted range based on recent driving / temperature, the guys would need to make sure they were using rated not recent on all vehicles to make this meaningful. Getting rated typically involves driving at the speed limit on a flat, dry freeway.

[@peterwright837]

You need to use a known efficiency factor either the miles per kWh to get the EPA range or your own measured efficiency in a standardized range test.

[@roger1818]

@@peterwright837 The problem with using EPA range is: 1. They will use one of two different calculations (OEM’s choice) 2. The OEM has the option to reduce the range result if they want to under promise and over delver.

[@voldar70]

Being that the Ioniq 5 have no possibility to precondition the battery before charging, the Hummer wins ! In fact the Hummer wins even from this video : 20 mins : 150 miles added. The Ioniq 5 adds about the same in 20 mins during summer. It adds about 100 miles in colder temperatures. The Hummer adds about the same 150 miles in cold temperature.

[@J.W.W.]

It’s actually a more accurate drag race because you used the same charging points. You guys are still proving the non-Tesla network sucks

[@tbone9405]

Miles in 20 minutes most valuable, in my opinion.

[@roger1818]

I agree, but they should be real world miles, not based on the GoM. Doesn’t TFL pride themselves on “Real world reviews?”

[@Crazypostman]

@@roger1818 basing it on GOM miles is not a bad idea, as long as it's a true gom and not a rated range like Tesla does.

[@roger1818]

@@Crazypostman The problem is every manufacturer calibrates their GoM differently. Even the EPA range has significant variability. Optimally a 70mph range test would be performed. State Of Charge does one or TFLEV could do their own. They could charge the vehicle for 20 minutes and then see how far they can drive until they get back to their starting charge percentage.

[@Crazypostman]

@@roger1818 Yes that would be ideal, it's a time commitment though. I've done many 70 mph test on my channel and it's certainly a time suck 😂

[@roger1818]

@@Crazypostman True, though not as bad as going from full to empty. An alternate is to use the results Tom Moloughney gets on his channel State of Charge.

[@JustinKelly]

I believe the 20 minute scenario is better for most people however that will vary greatly depending on the SOC of each EV. Maybe you should start at 10% for every EV and do 20 minutes and if it takes longer than 20 minutes to reach 80%, note it as additional time needed and run the test out until it does reach 80%. For vehicles such as the Ioniq 5 and smaller battery vehicles it would be nice to know if you can meet Hyundai's claim of 18 minutes for the 10-80%.

[@brushlessmotoring]

Absolutely brilliant - telling it like it is! I think there is real value in the miles per 20 minute metric, for road trip charging it is probably the most relevant stat, maybe followed by price, but as a distant second. To compare, a Model 3 coming in hot and empty might be able to get 200 miles in 20 minutes - I'm with both of you on the results that matter, 20 minute distance, and 10% to 80% time too - they are both relevant for EV road trips, in some respects this is a shortened version of Bjorns 1000km challenge, as it s a pretty good indicator of performance in that test too. Awesome to see a convert say Hi as a direct result of your videos - that must have been really rewarding. Keep up the good work - especially the charger shaming - it needs to get better, but please bench mark a Tesla too, in my experience, it just works 100% of the time.

[@jrssae]

I also agree with tommy. If I am spending 20 minutes at the charging station, regardless of what the battery size is or what the charging speed is, I want to know how far I can go from that charge

[@-Jethro-]

Every EV driver on a road trip quickly realizes that real world miles per minute is the important metric. To improve this speed: Try to arrive at the charger with 15% or less remaining charge. Make sure the car knows about your plan so it can prepare the battery for 15-20 minutes. Don’t charge much higher than needed.

[@erikstephens34]

I would point out "average" range/min over a specific SOC range is a good metric.

[@briannicholls2628]

The charging speed IS related to the battery pack size...each cell has a max speed at which it can charge. The more cells you have the faster you can charge (assuming the same cells in each car). There are lots of factors, but the larger pack should be able to be charged faster

[@nelsonbaracat]

so interesting to see them both discussing/arguing about the charging states of their vehicles. keep the awesome content coming!

[@zcon]

Actually Tommy’s right, but you should calculate range added based on epa mpkWh (or your real world average mpkWh) and kWh added instead of what the vehicle happens to say for estimated range at that moment.

[@alexorcas1]

I think what Tommy was saying is totally valid. The amount of kilowatt hours you add is irrelevant if it doesn't get you to your next destination due to vehicle efficiency. I'd be interested in a drag race to add 200 miles of range or something like that. Of course that is affected by your recent driving history...but maybe you can calculate a baseline using the manufacturer's specified range and available battery capacity to get a range per kilowatt hour.

[@supergeek02468]

Hummer gained 45% Rivian gained 44% That means they both charged at an effectively identical 1.3C charging rate. Compare that to a Model X, which will do 57% at a 1.7C charge rate over 20 minutes. Tesla is clearly getting a lot more thermal performance out of their battery packs.

[@JMacGyver1]

The Hummer is exactly what the old Hummer’s were, obnoxious and inefficient. The Hummer’s faster charging speed is an absolute requirement, as it needs fast charging to make up for the inefficiency and larger battery pack.

[@aussie2uGA]

Just remember there is no law, yet, that every design has to be efficient. Sometimes a square brick with a large pack is more attractive than the same slippery look everything else has. Think Mercedes GWagon.

[@bostondan77]

Actually, for the size and capability of the Hummer, I personally feel like it could have been much worse. It pulled 96.8 kWh, if you account for a 10% charging loss, that's 1.72 miles/kWh, the EPA consumption rate for the Rivian R1T launch is 2.1 miles/kWh. It's no Chevy Bolt at 3.6 miles/kWh but Roman, Andre, and Tommy wouldn't look as cool driving around town with their shades on all squeezed into a Chevy Bolt.

[@farmereliza770]

Again, big points on how we need to improve the charging network before everyone trades in their gas guzzlers. I’d love to see the Hummer and Rivian go off road together. Probably would be better to do a R1T and compare towing and functionality, although I love the R1S as a family hauler. The Hummer is not a family hauler by any means, but I think it might beat the Rivian off road, and lose functionality. Price is insane on both.

[@Indypacecar82]

Miles in 20 minutes is the most valuable info to a consumer. To get that data though, you should do a 70mph efficiency test then take the miles per KW/H times the KW/H of electricity dispensed in 20 minutes.

[@Indypacecar82]

I think efficiency at 70mph is what matters most for DC fast charging performance metrics. Almost all DC fast charging will be used during long highway journeys. Consumers that aren't used to electric vehicles want to know how many miles of range gain they get in 20 minutes. Ideally starting between 10-15 percent battery

[@marcbee1234]

7:41 Hummer 96.9 kWh $10.03 at 12:56 Rivian 59.9 kWh $10.03 same price Hummer 37 kWh bonus.

[@cypvh74]

Some states, only utilities can charge by kwh. So charging station operators have to charge by time. It’s dumb.

[@marcbee1234]

@@cypvh74 This is a good piece of information to know!

[@micahv9365]

I love that Tommy says “one thing I love about these chargers”, mere seconds after the cut of none of the chargers working

[@Rsomero]

Love these videos, they really show how much this technology is in its infancy. Loved the look on Tommy's face when he realized he "lost".

[@Bygkydcmc]

Miles added in 20 minutes is a good metric but it should probably be hand calculated "kWh added" times "vehicle long term efficiency average" rather than relying on the vehicles GOM. 20 minutes is about how long I expect to be at a stop when travelling in my Ioniq5 and I think it is a reasonable amount of time for a stop.

[@WW-wf8tu]

The test is doomed to failure when trying to test the speed at stations that are not reliable. A better test would have been to plug in at the office at level 2. Or even level 1. In 20 minutes which would have more range added in. Since that is where most EV's are supposedly being charged up. The temps being equal sitting in the garage.

[@roberttorres3809]

Miles in 20 minutes most important , especially if you have babies or kids and your trying to get home as fast as possible if they are upset .

[@JohnPMiller]

Do you get a notification on your phone when charging stops or fails? I'm just wondering if you can go eat while you charge, or if you have to be watching.

[@ChuckvdL]

Depends on the network, most have an app that will alert you to various events

[@HarveyPayne]

The real race, as Tommy pointed out, is how many miles are added. More specifically I look at how long it takes to charge to regain 150 miles. That’s about as far as I want to drive between rest breaks anyway. So say starting from a less anxious arrival charge of 20%, how long does it take to add 150 real miles?

[@wesshepard]

This video was fun, I love the friendly banter!

[@loganholmberg2295]

Who gets the most range in 20 minutes.... After all its about spending less time at the charger to get where you want to go. So what if the Hummer charges faster if it needs such a larger battery to get there but its not charging fast emough and I'm sitting at chargers all day.

[@ChuckvdL]

In a real world scenario of an extended road trip (trying for max miles/time over the trip duration), you are pulling in with your just your safety margin left.. Depending on comfort level, let’s say that’s 10 miles of range, and then charging untill you add enough miles to get to the next charging stop. If that’s 150 miles (to stay high in the charging curve), then the test should be how quickly you can go from guesstimated 10 to 160 miles of range.

[@brushlessmotoring]

This is spot on, but, for benchmarking, the miles in 20 minutes test is a decent alternative.

[@newscoulomb3705]

Are you sure this isn't an issue with the Rivian R1S? This is still an early production model, right? I've been seeing a number of Rivian charging issues being reported related to Signet chargers (on both Electrify America and EVgo).

[@DirectCurrentRides]

You charge both vehicles for X amount of time and then drive them on the same route/speed and see who gets back down to their pre-charge percentage first.

[@ChristOurKing]

Battery size DOES affect charging speed. As battery gets full, it's able to accept less energy/time. Adding 10kw to a battery that's almost full will take more time than adding the same amount when the same battery is almost empty. Basically that's why the Hummer accept almost the amount of energy that goes in a Tesla in about 20 minutes vs a Tesla being charged to 100%.

[@Jeddin]

The size of the battery does determine how fast you can charge the battery without damaging it. That’s called the c rating. The bigger the battery the faster you can charge it safely

[@allanhallett]

10 to 80 would be cool. Both have good points but Tommy's mules added is how I think of gasification g up my car because I know a full tank gets me 408 miles. Keep these coming.

[@jayjohnstone9635]

For me the most interesting factor is that the Hummer sits on an Ultium pack, and so the Hummer charging speeds will be relevant to the Silverado / Sierra EVs (same pack) and will inform somewhat how the Blazer / Equinox can charge. And those vehicles will be Rivian efficient or better, because Tommy's right - it's about how far I can go after I plug in for 20 minutes and am not charger limited. Based on how capably the Hummer chargers, the rest of the Ultium vehicles are promising!

[@wilmarbarrick3194]

Miles added per unit time. I want to know how far I can go until I need to stop again. After seeing these videos along with the Munro teardown inspection, the Rivian doesn't strike me as a well designed, quality product.

[@simondale3980]

Miles I can drive with a 20 min charge is more important than how many kWh added. Small batterys will charge at a slower rate typically but also more likely fitted to smaller more efficient cars meaning it will equal out over a wide spectrum of cars on test and is more useful to real world usage. Some cars don't even tell you how big the battery is as they know it doesn't really matter, only how far you can drive matters.

[@dist3allaround]

This was VERY good!! It showed the current state of the infrastructure. YES, it is at the very beginning stages and has some development to go, NO DOUBT! One VERY interesting point is how that charger, charged you $$$, it was by time spent and not electricity absorbed!!! WOW!! That is similar to using the large nozel at the diesel pump vs the standard nozzle and paying the same final price on the two mintues of pumping!!!

[@devinjones1119]

I agree completely with Tommy, real world “mileage added” is the metric that makes most sense with the variety of battery capacities and vehicle efficiency.

[@Bikerbug2020]

The EVgo stations in Fort Myers are the only ones that actually work for CCS charging. The EA stations at Walmart are a real hit or miss situation. Sometimes they work and most of the time they don’t, really at the moment the sheer lack of consistent CCS stations keeps me with the Tesla product. Would be nice if the CCS system was as reliable as the Tesla network, but alas it will never be because the various automakers using CCS do not have any skin in the Charging game. They need to all build out CCS systems that will be as reliable as the Tesla system, or at the very least all convert to Tesla charging and help Tesla build out the network. Ridiculous how bad the CCS systems are.

[@wilkytx]

As a relatively new EV owner (Mustang Mach-E) I went on my first mini-road trip of only 200-ish miles and the lack of EV charging stations and the lack of consistency of those stations on whether they're operating or not was a real disappointment. For those with range anxiety, it's a real thing still. Hopefully you're right and the CCS automakers will work with Tesla to expand the coverage. HOPEFULLY!

[@fenceman53]

Recent announcements by Tesla indicate they want to be North American standard for charging connector . Will they open up their network to all EVs? And sell their supercharger to market?

[@Bikerbug2020]

@@fenceman53 - Tesla Supercharging is smooth and effortless, even simpler than gassing up… It is what makes owning a Tesla so simple and why Tesla’s sell so readily. No other car on the market is as simple to charge (while on the road). At home the charging is simple as well, but the fact that Tesla got rid of the charging cable and home charger is RIDICULOUS. It is a freaking electric car, and even Apple still gives you the charge cord. Guessing Tesla figures the car is more like a Drier and you need to buy the cord for the appliance. LOL

[@TheHammaJoe]

If i were hummer engineer id put to plugports so i could suck twice 350 kw Form two stalls each charging half the battery. If its half the time blocking two its the same than blocking one for double that time right?

[@erikstephens34]

Loved the video. I like the format. 20mins is a good metric. Should make sure the vehicles are between 10 to 20% SOC (which it was for this). A few tricky things to note. It appears the Hummer was throttling because it might have been either to warm or cold. While you did run the pre-conditioning a battery that size needs nearly an hour to get to the right temperature. Also the Rivian was also throttling due to high temperature. So you might want to consider a pre-test routine that is consistent so that you always comparing apples to apples. Also using GOM is tricky. Different vehicles calculate GOM in different ways. Might want to consider % SOC added and then correlate to the EPA range figures. Or even better correlate to your highway range test real world values (but be mindful of temperature and weather).

[@LV4TD101]

As always the real looser in this race is EVgo, as well as all other non tesla chargers. Do you really need a rocket scientist to make a system that can reliably dispense electricity, this is so sad

[@TheHammaJoe]

Could you do a charging curve next time please?

[@Alexanderthenotsobad]

So I'm sure there's another factor you haven't taken into account: -- Throttling algorithms The charging station is charging by the minute (or by time at least) not by Kw dispensed. The Hummer was hoovering up nearly 300 Kw/hr for about 20 min. At some point their algorithms will kick in and throttle the charging rate (i.e. charging speed limited by charging station). So in a perfect world, more akin to a company charging per Kw, and not per session time, the Rivian would probably get the same amount of miles per time (10 min, 15, min, 20 min, etc.) as the Hummer.

[@TheHammaJoe]

Dont take the number from the dash but take the Real World consumption (the ones from your efficency tests) and compare to the kw gained. I dont trust these estimated numbers. You can even compare it to the Trailer consumption that way ... id like three numbers that way: range gained for City, Highway and Trailer if you have those numbers it would be awesome.

[@Lustratum]

To me the more important number is how many miles of range I can get in 20 minutes. Adding KWh is great but it means nothing in relation to me getting to the next destination.

[@macbook802]

The problem is charging two high draw vehicles at the same station. I was at an electrify America the other day and a ford lightning pulled up and dropped my charging rate by 10kw

[@elywalton1236]

EVs' Archilles heel(s) are: (1) poor range, and (2) long refuel/recharge time... I am skeptical that EVs will ever approach current norms of about 500 miles range and 10 minute refueling... Think about it… Can you really replace all the energy needed to move a vehicle 500 miles in 10 minutes? Power losses (heat) in the charger and connection systems increase with the square of the current… Physics will dictate limits (at least until/if we discover high-temperature superconductors)… After the early-adopter phase, EVs will have to meet or beat those 500 mile and 10 minute range/refuel time numbers to achieve wide acceptance... Just sayin' 😎

[@TFLEV]

True that

[@jeffwill4923]

I do see solid state setup's getting close to those numbers in a controlled environment, but the question is will it be sustainable. At the kind of speed cooling is always going to be a issue. Most batteries setups probably won't last long under that kind of charging. That's why you see all slowing down after 80%.

[@jeffwill4923]

@@Georgeionescu205 It's new but I still feel it can be done. The cost to do such for a small segment is not worth it at the moment. Baby steps are needed before trying a big leap. Infrastructure is still a issue also. The Lucid Air battery is based off F1 E tech. It's only 118kw but charger say 134kw. System is said to be 900v capable. Let's say you modify the cooling system and put it a larger vehicle like the Hummer. I don't see why a 10 min full can't be done in controlled environment. Temps have to be low to keep all in check.

[@WheresHerb]

What actually happens during a battery preconditioning to get it ready to charge?

[@A_guy840]

I think the 20 min is relevant as well as 10-80%. Maybe do both at the same time? Also I agree with tommy, I don’t care how many kWh are added I just care about how many miles I can drive for a given period of time I spent charging. :)

[@jayhiggins5239]

Agreed. 20 minute and 10-to-80 are 2 different but relevant races.

[@LikeARock1997]

Miles added is a good metric to judge charging speed, since energy added does not account for the battery size or efficiency of the motors. However, I think the best way to keep consistency with comparing vehicle charging is to use EPA miles added or TFL Miles added. Meaning if a vehicle with 100 usable kWh adds 42 kWh in 20 minutes that’s 42% added. Then multiply that by either the EPA range or TFL’s own 70mph highway range estimate (TFL Miles) to arrive at a universal miles added. This would eliminate the individual vehicle’s computer’s estimates playing into the calculation.

[@LikeARock1997]

I also think you should also post 10% or 20% to 80% charging times with a preconditioned battery. Expanding on that further, you could generate real time charging curves from 10% to 100% for each vehicle and then recommend what percentage to quit charging on each vehicle if it was on a road trip. Since although the 20-80 is the general thought, it appears to vary greatly per vehicle, with some speeds dropping significantly after just 50% SOC. Just a thought, your videos are great and share insight into the expanding world of EV’s and the challenges people will face. Thanks!

[@vr4042]

Actually, battery size does affect charging speed in that the larger Hummer pack can charge at a faster rate longer, adding more watts in the same time period, because it will be at a lower state of charge longer than a smaller packed vehicle.

[@JREwing78]

Ultimately, Tommy's metric makes sense - how far can you go with 20 minutes of charging. The challenge is in making sure all of the variables involved are equal. Getting a solid miles per kWh figure is the first step - relying on the guess-o-meter is about like relying on the car's own MPG calculations - sketchy at best. Looking at EPA combined figures, that puts the Hummer at 1.39 miles/kWh and the Rivian at 2.08 miles/kWh. Now that there's a efficiency number to work with, it's down to showing up at the same state-of-charge and making sure the charger is in working order (which as the Micas show us, is a real challenge). But they got a charging number - in 20 minutes the Hummer slurps down 96.8 kWh to the Rivian's 59.9 kWh. Using EPA combined mileage numbers, the Hummer picked up 135 miles of range to the Rivian's 125 miles. Obviously, the Achilles' heel of the Hummer is its prodigious consumption, and it will knee you in the groin if you are stuck on a slow charger. In one hour at a 50kW charger, the Hummer only picks up 70 miles of range to the Rivian's 104 miles. If it's a cold or hot day, those numbers will dip even farther. The worst-case Ioniq 5 gets 2.94 miles/kWh. On their 77.4 kWh battery, going 10-80% in 20 minutes means they have to onboard 54.2 kWh in that timeframe, which should be easily possible on the same (working) charging station the Hummer and Rivian used. That brings you 159 miles of range in 20 minutes. Or, in my 50kW charger example, an hour gets you 147 miles. Either way, there's a reason Roman and Nathan used the Ioniq 5 on their electric Cannonball trip.

[@Twize]

Dragrace Charging!? …I Love love this idea for future benchmark testing and an important performance mark for me when and IF I’m in the market for one of these expensive EVs. Awesome job Gentlemen.🙂👍

[@MariuszChr]

Energy added is a real drag race here - because it depends on guts if the vehicle - what architecture is in it - how many watts it can suck up. Miles added is testing an efficiency of the drivetrain. Who cares about efficiency during drag racing :) but also makes sense in terms of what quick charge is meant for - to charge up during road trip - the less time you spend there for driving the same distance is better

[@tarfeef101]

So here's what you should do: - I don't care what editorial direction you want to declare a "winner" as long as you give all the data. Personally since I'm buying a vehicle and not a charging system, I care about mileage more than KWh, so to answer your argument Tommy is right. - feel free to give us KWh added, I still am curious whose tech did better - give us charging speed over time so we can optimize our curves - give us mileage added. Do this by charging for a period of time, and then multiplying the energy added by the efficiency from the EPA (removing any bias from driving style as this is standardized) IMO the "winner" should be the most miles in the latter, over a 30 time. The time is up to you and the viewers at large. Personally I'd prefer to stop for 5-10 mins just for gas, or 30-45 for a sit down meal. So 20 is a bit of a dead zone. But I'm fine with whatever, really. I do think time is good for this "drag race" though. Charging curves are the most important thing, though. Start at 0, charge to max, and plot the charge over time. Then extract all the metrics from there. In fact, you could extract infinite "drag races" from that data, see how much each added from 10% within a period of time, and calculate the miles added. You can do this for any length of time and starting state of charge.

[@KalleSWBeck]

Pretty simple go off the epa rated miles per kWh to assess how much miles were added

[@greg7693]

The guy is correct -- the most helpful metric would be # of miles added after 20 minutes... or # of minutes it takes to add 120 or 150 miles of driving

[@deanmorris6835]

I have a quick question I was in the market for the Hummer EV then I found out about the recall how much problems have you guys had with the hummer EV

[@asianeleven6050]

Wow, that frustration at the charging pump is a deal breaker...

[@peters6454]

Tommy is right on this one. It’s all about how many miles you can get per minute of charge.

[@ALMX5DP]

lol this was like the equivalent of a power tailgate speed test. One can be quicker, but someone then argues that the opening isnt as efficient for actually loading in cargo. A simple 10-80% test would be better like you guys said.

[@iamnid]

I think the calculation should have been this: look at the kwh that were added, then look at the average kw/mi for each vehicle to determine the miles added back by the charging. Sure the HEV probably added more kwh to the battery in 20 minutes but it also burns more kw/mi.

[@nickcate9377]

Tommy is right. The metric that matters is how many miles were added in a given amount of time. The winner of a charging race is the vehicle that can gain the greater amount of miles in the fastest time. The "finish line" is a predetermined number of miles. The question is how many miles should be the goal or "finish line "? I think 130 miles should be the number. This would be half the miles needed for a week of average vehicle use based on current statistics (260/wk=13,520yr). A potential buyer of an EV wants to know how much time per week they can expect to spend charging at a fast charge location and how many times per week? This would be interesting to know especially for any potential buyers that do not have a capability to charge an EV at home. I think a time limit of 20 minutes per charging session is also good. I know for me 20 minutes would be the maximum amount of time I would be willing to sacrifice out of my day. Being mindful that an ICE vehicle can be fueled in 5 minutes and last at least 90% of the week. I think that 20 minutes twice a week is all that I would be willing to sacrifice for an EV. The results of such a charging test would be very interesting and useful to a prospective EV buyer. It would help answer the question of how viable of an option is an EV. Roman, your comment on the range being effected by driving style is not relevant. Yes, of course we know that range varies depending on driving conditions. But the purpose here is to simply get an estimated range based on average driving conditions.

[@AnonymousFreakYT]

What might be a better test is to "charge to 100%, drive , time how long it takes to add charge sufficient to add 200 miles of range." That's more indicative of road-tripping. Especially caravan road tripping where multiple vehicles are likely to stop at the same time. And would take into account both efficiency and charging speed. A more efficient EV would do better, an EV with better charge curve would do better.

[@tbone9405]

How far can you go from 80% to 20% would be a good test on both vehicles! Thanks for good real world content.

[@dreadous]

I want to see towing a boat from house to lake and back during summer. Also, house to trail and back 2 snowmobiles during winter. How far away and back can you go on home charging? How does real world conditions limit you.

[@colink4710]

Love this. I agree with Tommy. All about the miles you get on a road trip.

[@ianmalkaviac]

Still look for mile per kilowatt at 60, 65, and 70 mph. I would be curious to see how each truck does. When driving my Chevy Bolt around I find that at 60 mph I get the best efficiency and going up to 65 drops it by 1/4 to 1/3 and going 70 can drop it a little over 1/3 of the efficiency. Just to give some real world examples my bolt can do between 3 to 3.8 m/kw at 60, 2.7 to 3 m/kw at 65, and 2.4 to 2.6 m/kw at 70. What people have to take into account is that these numbers are multiplicative and just that little but of change can have a massive effect on actual range because the battires are a fixed size. So a 66 kwh battery can have a range of 250, 198, and 175 respectively

[@nroose]

Has anyone tried to make the Hev more efficient? By changing tires and body? Seems like it would be a great idea. If you could make it quickly/easily swappable, you could have an efficient commuter during the week and a hummer on the weekend.

[@rinbine2713]

Most important factor is range in specific time( 20 minutes). You can go or You can't go.. It is decided by range.

[@richardnottelmann58]

I would be terrified to change in a snow storm.

[@milobookout267]

Definitely keen on the 20-80% race. Maybe let the Rivian go first, in case the charge station was over-heating.

[@seanplace8192]

Do another "drag race" using 150kW stations. Those are still much more common than the 350kW ones. That's where more efficient vehicles such as the R1S shine.

[@sjs8-2013]

I agree with Tommy, value is range added per minute, but it should be real world range, not guess-O-meter miles added.

[@myharpoon1976]

Tommy is 100% correct here. Miles added is the most important metric for fast charging. Who cares if you add 200 kWh in 20 minutes if that only takes you 100 miles down the road. You would much rather add 100 kWh in 20 minutes and drive 110 miles in a much more efficient vehicle.

[@scottwhitney3695]

Test starting with 30 mile reserve, then charge for 20 minutes. Most miles added wins. Personally, anything over 2 hours driving (120 -150 mi) is as far as I go before needing a break.

[@tgold99]

Tommy is right that range/miles added is what actually matters. The Hummer charges so fast because the battery is huge and lithium ion batteries charge much faster at lower states of charge. The Hummer has much more headroom to charge fast. The problem is then the Hummer only gets 1.6 miles per kwh on average. A good real world test is to do a roadtrip with multiple charging stops to see which truck is "faster." Also EV charging stations are still an unreliable mess and a lot of charging ability and speed is simply luck at this point.

[@willptech7565]

13:31 sounds just like me and my dad at work lol😅

[@StevenGresser]

A typical drag race is to see who gets to x distance the quickest, so for your charging drag race, it needs to be the same. Choose a distance, such as 50 miles, and whoever can gain that amount in the quickest time is the winner.

[@racinj7134]

Rivian's do not like being charged at over 150 kw. Anytime I've charged at 350 kw chargers with the Rivian taking in around 200 kw, it gets that Slower due to battery cooling warning and slows down to levels less than what the 150 kw chargers maintain at. If you're charging to 50%, possibly the 350 kw will get you more in less time, but if charging to 80%, they always seem to work out to about the same amount of time.

[@MikeSTGL]

They really need to figure out the charger station issues .

[@GeorgeGeo]

One cool idea might be is to show how it is to live with one of these in a week.. daily commutes, charging at home and see what it cost at the end of the week. If lets say Roman only traveled 50 miles with the vehicle at the end of the week vs Nathon traveling 120 miles Obviously Roman may have not even needed to charge but it will just give people a real good idea of every day life with one of these from multiple perspectives.

[@jghall00]

The range limitations matter if you're traveling long distances or live somewhere with no charging capability at home because most owners recharge every night. That makes it difficult to compare a week because local driving will have a higher amount of low speed, which is where EVs excel.

[@KalleSWBeck]

A week with an ev doing your regular driving they feel like the perfect vehicle you just plug it in at home… even a level 1 normal outlet will add 30-50 miles every night

[@Show-me-how-now]

Sorry Romain, You're wrong. Yes, a bigger battery will be able to accept higher rates of charge as the battery fills up. Also, most charging stations costs are time-based.

[@kieransteele7223]

10-80% matters the most! I think that’s the way to go

[@EVAddicted]

EVgo might finally rethink their per minute rate as more fast charging EVs will become more common. For example in my 2022 Bolt EUV for the same 20 min and $10.03 it will add at its beat about 15kWh definitely less than 20kWh.

[@Weezedog]

“At an EVgo station you can see sone pretty cool information like connection error detected!” Yep that pretty much sums up the state of EV charging infrastructure….

[@robertmorin1454]

That is strange on cost for power ( slightly more for RIV Ian and yet way less power loaded)? Might be worthwhile to give the various EVs and costs of charging for 20min and total kWh loaded to batteries?👍🇨🇦

[@peterwright837]

The brief glimpse of the pricing screen showed that the price was per minute. You would think two prominent EV KZbinrs would know basic facts about EV charging in their home state or at least figure it out before publishing a video on the topic.

[@TomDastrup]

Relying on the GOM is not going to be accurate enough to get a good result. Instead, use the EPA rated range for each vehicle multiplied by the battery percentage that was added over the 20 minutes.

[@TFLEV]

Good idea but the Hummer EV is a HD truck so it’s not EPA rated.

[@davidws5439]

Roman, Please get it right. It's the charging of CCS1 vehicles NOT all EV'S have that problem. The ones that use the NACS - Tesla connectors don't have that problem.

[@LawrenceCamera]

I agree with Tommy, I want to know how many more miles of driving I can get within that 20 minutes of charging then how many kilowatts I got.

[@aaronandhayleyskinner3249]

I agree with Tommy and would enjoy the 10-80%

[@tfwoodcraft]

Could do a drag race of how long it takes each one to add 100 miles of range