How did Planes Fly Before GPS?

[@donjohnson8649]

I was a military pilot before the days of GPS (which is SATELLITE BASED) and we used a navigation system called LORAN (our nav device was a TRACOR). Why is it that very few people know about or acknowledge the existence of a period where we used LORAN? That was a LAND/SURFACE BASED navigation system that used a kinda slow, complicated, cumbersome kind of charts with LORAN circles on them. In a hyperbolic system such as LORAN, a receiver on an aircraft or ship picks up radio signals broadcast by one or more pairs of radio stations spaced hundreds of miles apart. The system works by measuring the time delays between signals from the two stations. THAT was how airplanes navigated in those days prior to GPS and neither had ANYTHING to do with "How did airplanes fly", which is a whole different subject, generally called aerodynamics.

[@b8888whale]

They discuss LORAN in this video.

[@raym984]

What about ADFs and NDBs ? Were those used very commonly in the past? Nowadays, student pilots like myself are learning how to use VORs / DMEs / VORTACs in conjunction with pilotage and dead reckoning and we’re not allowed to train with GPS. This’ll probably see some change in the future though. Based on what I’m understanding, LORAN seems like an interesting technology to locate your position. The same can be achieved by modern VOR triangulation where two VOR stations are used to find the intersection of the bearings on a sectional which would ultimately give your position.

[@donjohnson8649]

@@raym984 I DO think that new pilots should be trained on any kind of new or existing navigation systems in order that they have some idea what is out there and be familiar with it. THAT said, I think NDBs and VORTACs (and plain VORs) are going to be joining the dinosaurs in the not too distant future. Also, new pilots (especially those working on an instrument rating) need to know how the GPS stuff works because a now LOT of instrument approaches are based upon GPS. ADFs are equipment in the aircraft that can be used to navigate by and also to shoot some instrument approaches, though that kind of approach is also becoming obsolete. Triangulating with either NDB or VOR can be done but it is a PITA, especially if you only have one (of whichever) receiver and have to switch back and forth between transmitting stations to figure out your position. Using two receivers is MUCH less of a hassle (though very few aircraft are equipped with 2 ADFs). 2 VOR receivers and a DME are pretty common equipment. Determining your position with one VORTAC is very easy if you have a VOR and DME equipment....only one station (that actually uses 2 signals--one for angular direction and one for distance) is required, making triangulation unnecessary. Nowadays, LORAN receivers are pretty rare in civilian aircraft and I haven't seen one in years---more like decades!.

[@timmzzzz88]

My grandfather had some sort of rank through ROTC he had a degree in physics which led him into setting up some of the first computer databases for the US military. They since my mother had been alive, I know he set up infrastructure in Texas, Kansas, Carolina, and New Mexico. I believe all air force bases. He would go on all the time about rocket trajectory and all the different programs there were from the late 40's and 50's and still going on today for guided missile technology. He claims he was apart of the programs that help develop the tech you are talking about. Or maybe they used it to map the earth for their missile programs. He said he would use radar technology and sit in a small cockpit and take actual photos of the earth every second or so through travel. I never really cared or believed him. He was an old loud jack ass by the time I was born. But now that I'm older and he's gone. I'd give anything to understand the things he was telling me. Because I'm completely fascinated by these things now.

[@brucemcdonald6677]

I was a USAF Navigator and there was no military or civilian GPS access in 1983…period. They used an INS (Inertial Navigation System) and all you had to do was enter the wrong longitude and it would send you off course if you did not back it up with VOR, Cel, DR, etc.,

[@lamucchinaofficial6]

Your Channel Is so underrated, i Hope in future you will have more subscribers

[@EverythingScience]

I hope so too 😅

[@siddharthapogula6569]

Nice this video voice over and animation is very good for a small channel like yours. I hope you get more subs soon

[@EverythingScience]

Thanks for the support! I hope we grow too 😅

[@McStebb]

I'm a student pilot earning my PPL, and you might be surprised to know that VOR is still widely used in general aviation. It's a convenient tool for cross country navigation, especially out here in the Midwest where everything is flat; no mountains to cut off LOS

[@EverythingScience]

If you like the videos come check out our discord. It's pretty small now but we're hoping to grow it as the community grows! discord.com/invite/DUvyS8n

[@MillyBays]

1:00 Looks like an extra R might've slipped into that executive order.

[@EverythingScience]

If only my editor paid as much attention to details as you

[@EverythingScience]

Oh wait, I am my editor 😪

[@shushreverse2214]

Good vid 👍

[@Uploader1992]

I think your channel is about to get super big, this video was amazing, and I'm sure that if you keep on with the good work, the subscribers will arrive. My mind was blown with the LORAN receiver, that invention was surely groundbreaking. If you need anything in regards to copywriting, graphic design, video editing or after effects, just let me know. I want to be a part of your growth. Cheers from Bogotá, Colombia!

[@pdep]

Gee was an early electronic navigation system based on ground stations and pulses. It rose to significance during WW2 and lasted in British military aircraft long after. I was honoured to participate in the final Gee-approach landing as the navigator on the night Gee finally shut down in 1970. We timed our home ETA to the second. As the wheels touched the runway, seconds later, after midnight, the Gee system shut down. Loran succeeded Gee [which I disliked and subsequently Decca navigator, which most all navigators detested. It was a bodged version inherited from the Navy where it was much better suited]. After leaving the RAF, I worked for Decca Navigator at New Malden near London. But that's another story... 😁

[@semperfidelis722]

definitely subscribing, love the way you present your content.

[@mariasarli8702]

Fascinating. Glad we don't fly using the earlier methods. They sound terrifyingly prone to error.

[@EverythingScience]

Glad you liked the video!

[@goldendemise3165]

Compared to today, but they were the best of the best during their time.

[@BL4K_B4BIES]

this was very interesting i am liking to learn about planes recently fascinating did no know they used to use the stars sounds so ancient

[@domwings4329]

It’s amazing that just an airplane over a country is enough to shoot it down. Absolutely unacceptable

[@quattro4468]

Or just droning people like obama did.

[@johnmay23]

YOU FORGOT THE DECCA NAVIGATOR SYSTEM

[@aeroabs]

6:54 the arrow points to the VOR with a big arrow saying "these things" when all they are pointing to is the engine instrument panel which has nothing to do with navigation

[@VideoUser3053]

Excellent video - very informative

[@peterhoebarth4234]

?, never

[@rebeccahaber8431]

great video!!

[@EverythingScience]

Glad you liked the video!

[@Bhatakti_Hawas]

Beautiful video

[@demonkiller3418]

amazing video, impressive for a small channel!

[@EverythingScience]

Glad you liked it! Really means a lot to us small guys

[@oxcart4172]

Same way they do now-but it was harder to navigate!

[@zooker2185]

An inertial navigation system would've been interesting also

[@dimitristripakis7364]

I think that is the "Dead Reckoning" he mentioned.

[@_Breakdown]

Great video

[@EverythingScience]

Glad you liked it!

[@Sam-df1vr]

Very interesting

[@jptrainingmethod]

Awesome stuff!

[@quattro4468]

Its not just gps. Theres various navigatio. Alternatives all with their own satellites. You have: GPS, GLONASS, GALLILEO, BEIDOU.

[@Ambrosini91]

Amazing video!

[@EverythingScience]

Glad you liked it!

[@skimaticsnz]

really - a channel focused on science says "how did planes fly before GPS" they flew but how did they navigate!

[@TheFlyingGreekman]

You haven't mentioned the Non Directional Becons.

[@SpidaMez]

6:55 That arrow is pointing to engine one RPM. Definitely not a VOR/DME instrument

[@pirate3599]

I started flying in 1974, we used to just "point and go"

[@shoeskode136]

Why does nobody ever ever talk about LORAN Or CONTAINER Or CIS-12 Or PLUTO

[@bakoena82]

Sounds like it was really hard being a pilot in days before gps😮

[@jadbiz]

you didn't mentioned Inertial navigation System ( INS ) and I have a question for you how submarines find their away when hundreds of feets underwater where I think gps signals can't reach.

[@EverythingScience]

A lot of submarines use an inertial navigation system (kind of like planes estimating there current location by extrapolating from there last location) and then when they resurface after a while they re-update their location.

[@Nell302]

Liked

[@EverythingScience]

Hearted

[@alexsis8980]

How did the pilots of the imperial japan navigate during the second world war over the pacific ocean in cloudy weather, in conditions of radio silence and the absence of visual reference points? Fuel on board was limited.

[@0xsn1pe36]

Using Compass roses,speed of the planes and turns

[@theobserver314]

Air Craft Carries.

[@kdennis188]

They used Radio Navigation, Automatic Direction Finder (ADF) tuned into broadcast radio stations on Oahu. They just tuned in a commercial AM station and the receiver in the airplanes have a needle that points to the transmitter. This system of navigation is being phased out as it is considered redundant and too expensive to maintain. GPS has made ADF’s obsolete.

[@Nell302]

Subbed

[@lvjungle2840]

I’m glad that I Live now

[@harmattan77]

How did airplanes "navigate" before GPS*

[@tomigrunge]

You forgot to mention inertial navigation (INS)

[@_Breakdown]

What is that? INS...?

[@tomigrunge]

@@_Breakdown Inertial Navigation System

[@firmaneffendi2801]

It seems you've missed: SHORAN (RSBN in Ru) Omega (Alpha in Ru) Gee Navigation system NDB and ADF systems As well as AM radio station ;p Yes pilot can tuned to AM radio station and listen to football match using NDB navigation reciever lmao

[@_Breakdown]

What is that…SHORAN?

[@_Breakdown]

What is that…SHORAN?

[@_Breakdown]

And what is Omega, Gee, NDB, etc?

[@firmaneffendi2801]

@@_Breakdown shoran: short range navigation system, use beacon and slave-master parabolic navigation. If coupled with vertical aid, it is called PMDG, similar to ILS. As far as I know (in flight sim at least) the neadle had similar function as ADF-NDB system

[@firmaneffendi2801]

@@_Breakdown Gee is parabolic navigation preceding LORAN and SHORAN made by british, work in parabolic navigation way. NDB is Non directional beacon, you fly into or from the beacon (similarly beacon-player relation if you play minecraft) but instead of light, it transmit radio wave (both are EM wave after all...) Omega was the parabolic navigation to have worldwide coverage, and navigating it require you to know the phase of each frequency of each station, and triangulate it between stations, similar to LORAN but at longer ranges

[@Namco_]

do not show this video to a flat-earth believer, he may have a crisis

[@theobserver314]

Basically, pilots navigated their planes like sail boat during the early stages of aviation.

[@EverythingScience]

Might as well stick with what you know I guess

[@coolkid286]

Planes used yo mama as a landmark to help fly before GPS

[@dimitristripakis7364]

Suppose in a modern flight the GPS fails and it is a clear day. Would the pilot be able to find any airport to land, you think ?

[@flyingadriano6728]

Now especially in the middle east and eastern Europe we experience GPS jamming (so for some flights no GPS) , so we often use IRS systems. Moreover you are in radar controlled airspace. Not only you be able to safely continue your flight, you will land safely at your destination.

[@susic1819]

Now you see they used their engines

[@ChrisGilliamOffGrid]

Planes fly the same as always, they navigate differently. 😉

[@EverythingScience]

Honestly (and as I'm sure you can understand as a fellow KZbinr) the title mostly comes down to SEO since more people are going to search for the word 'fly' than 'navigate'

[@ChrisGilliamOffGrid]

@@EverythingScience I know, I was just giving you a hard time. Great video, deserves more views, and you should have more subs.

[@wi_versa9577]

Watch FOR ALL MAN KIND

[@snk8734]

always

[@Bellakelpie]

The Circular slide rule. Still used by G.A. Pilots the world over.

[@lobanovlobanov9560]

I presume you have a russian accent... are you immigrant from russia? Or maybe one of the post-soviet countries....

[@raphaelmiguelbalon9226]

This accent sounds more like American English.

[@ct1762]

LORAN is not pronounced "Lauren" lol. really ruined the video.

[@figuringouthowtolife]

Nice video but the voice is a bit annoying, maybe try to improve that, other than that, it's really good looking forward to the future videos :)

[@RandomStuffTutorials]

it isnt annoying at all

[@KooolGMurder]

Good video but get someone else to do the narrating.

[@peterhoebarth4234]

Radio wave goes only straight Line, the Earth is flat.

[@stacy1790]

great video!