How Does a Propane LP System Work? First & Second Stage Regulators, LP Pressures Explained

[@johnfarley470]

I'm a service technician for 18 years for propane company any questions I can help

[@VideoGrabBag]

Question: I have a LP range in my kitchen that has a small external LP regulator rated at 10" attached to it. That regulator is connected to a shutoff valve that is connected to 50 feet of 3/4" black iron pipe. Is there a regulator and connectors that I can connect a 15 pound LP tank to the other end of the black iron pipe ?

[@yvettemeza3384]

Question...I have a Maytag kitchen stove we converted to uselp from ng. The ng has a silver flex line but we need to connect that to the 20lb amerigas lp tank. Can you help me with the connection part names I need? The flex line is a female at both ends and connects to regulator on stove. We need help from other end of flex line and to propane tank. Thank you

[@forestmosley4494]

John Farley I am moving to a house place that has propane tank for use with the stove. The valve is missing that connect the line to the tank? Will the propane company fix that or install one or what do I need to tell then needs to be done? I am new to propane and don’t know what to do and don’t want to blow anything up

[@douglb8960]

I don't see any replies posted, where they done privately?

[@JorgeSanchez-xm7pc]

@@VideoGrabBag Hi, did you get an answer for your question? I'm looking for the answer to your question as I have a similar setup in South Florida and wanted to see what the suggestion was. Thank You

[@gfriedman99]

Finally, a good video covering the basics on LP. Searched thru dozens that were no help. Thanks very much!!

[@seanstrickland4970]

Man you have taught me so much. Built an entire kitchen from the ground up with the help of your videos.

[@yourchoicehvacinc.2372]

The propane copper pipes you have run through the house are so straight and neat. excellent job on that!

[@johndugan4310]

Great video and information. Most folks are aware of the first regulator at the tank. In cold weather, you'll learn the hard lesson if that second regulator is exposed to snow, moisture, freezing weather and limits PSI to appliances. Well outlined and terrific information. Thank you again. I'm sure the home looks fantastic.

[@michellekozaczok8201]

🎶If the weather outside is frightful, And your furnace quit cuz your LP pressure is godawful. Watch Ben's First and Second Stage Regulators video, Then let your LP flow, let it flow, let it flow. 🎶 Thanks for info Ben. You answered SO many questions I didn't even know I had. You rock!

[@darrelfuhrman8217]

Ben, I was trained by Westland Oil Company years ago. We were taught up to 250k btu input, 1/2od copper on the primary line. Over 250k btu up to 350k btu, 5/8od copper on the primary line. I don’t think that your 3/8 copper line is big enough. Another way to increase your capacity is to use multiple low pressure regulators. 1 low pressure regulator for the furnace. 1 low pressure regulator for the hot water heater, BBQ, cook stove. Another low pressure regulator for the auxiliary furnace, or fire place. Also Ben you do not need shut off valves on each line after the high pressure regulator. The LP can not go backwards through a regulator. We tied two 500 tanks together for years. I adjust the regulators so that the primary tank was 10 psi, the secondary tank was 8 psi. The primary tank would go down to 5%, then the secondary tank would start being used. Kind of like the automatic tank switch over valve on your camper trailer. Hello from north east Montana. 10 miles from the Canadian border. In the last 3 weeks we have had -28°f two nights, -33°f one night, -30°f one night, -31°f one night.

[@abelsaenz3611]

Hello Darrel, thanks for the advice. Can I get your thoughts on a project in Dallas Texas, first time doing an underground LP tank. I will be running two 5-ton furnaces One 6-burner cooktop with stove, a Propane tankless water heater 199,000 btu, a fireplace and a small pool heater? YEA...... I was intending to run a 1-inch poly line from the underground LP approx. 30ft from the home to the building envelope can you shoot me straight. Please.

[@darrelfuhrman8217]

@@abelsaenz3611 That 1” poly line at 10 psi should be adequate. Up here we try to put each major user on their own low pressure regulator. I would put each furnace on its own regulator. The fireplace & cooktop & oven should be able to be on a regulator. But down in Texas, I would recommend 1 regulator per furnace. Then the rest on 1 or 2 regulators, whatever is convenient. Up here we adjust the low pressure regulator to 10 inches minimum while running. That is why we run more low pressure regulators. When -30°f the extra low pressure regulators insure that the furnaces have enough pressure.

[@ronaldcach2779]

FANTASTIC, you cleared up the mystery of LP pressure, No other youtube site explained as well as yours Thanks Friend

[@mar1video]

Great explanation! Thank you !

[@Pathasher]

Did you make a video for plumbing the tanks together?

[@thomasleather9397]

the traps are installed in correctly , refer to NFPA 54 (2018) addition -9.6.8 -the way they are installed would be for Nat gass as a "drip Leg" ont a sediment trap that is required for LP gas

[@mjufryh1]

At least here in Michigan, the sediment or 'drip' leg must be directly below the vertical run before entering an appliance such as your furnace. Not after the elbow. The inspectors here would give you a big red sticker.

[@chevysevery3461]

Same here in Maine also

[@michaeltowner8871]

@@chevysevery3461 mate in England none of this would be allowed😂

[@terrysmith1914]

NC has it going down not out I was told it was so trash in the ones would fall down into it presenting clogs

[@skylersong6086]

i texted through most of this explination but from what i gather im good to start cuttin!

[@supporterofeverythingyouli6255]

Nice video man. Thanks from Yellow medicine area...

[@chrtstinamoscufo3175]

The position of the valves when operating, when testing, and shutting down the system or appliance please. Thanks

[@robbobtimothytodd]

You should have a minimum of 14”wc entering your furnace or else you won’t get 10-11”wc to your burners. You’ll have a dirty heat exchanger in the future.

[@patrickcreath217]

Thanks! Very informative. I'm going to install a home generac and will buy and bury a propane tank down here in Halifax County, Virginia.

[@martygibson1480]

HEY PAL THIS HELPED ME OUT TREMENDOUSLY, I AM NOW SUBSCRIBED TO YOUR KZbin. I LOOK FORWARD FOR MORE EDUCATIONAL DO IT YOURSELF. THANKS AGAIN . MARTY G HERE IN WESTERN KENTUCKY.

[@shamancredible8632]

below -40f, you can condense propane gas in open atmosphere. Not that you should... but normally the conditions involved with liquid propane seem so distant, it would be so strange to condense it in open air.

[@stickman-1]

Great job. I'm just wondering, how often do you have to refill that 500# tank every winter?

[@Ingveyisnthome]

Great video I think you answered my problem I have 4 LP direct vent fireplaces all want 11in water .When my 500 lp tank was installed I asked them what it is set to and they said 11. I measured at all of my fireplaces and I am getting 7in. I think that might be why they all have wimpy output. Thanks

[@S7E7V7E7N]

Great video, got a quick unrelated question. Why do people use a small pipe at the end of a iron gas pipe connection? I noticed that is a common practice, and also used for HVAC.

[@scottzura4964]

Very well done.

[@yvettemeza3384]

This is an excellent video very well informed. Can you elaborate on the external conversion line assembly connections needed for the 20lb propane tank feed to flex line of kitchen stove

[@jillenetustian2333]

yay!!! answered all my questions! thank you!

[@michaelcasella4774]

THANKS!

[@DaveLhuillier]

Ben can I come off that first stage regulator with two lines one to the house and another to the garage? Then install a second regulator at both the house and garage?

[@lowdownRS76]

Nice looking work👍

[@dannystiasny2672]

Great vid , thanks

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

You bet!

[@hphillips7425]

Do you ever have any problems with the regulators freezing up and stopping flow?

[@jlondon158]

Seems info is like revealing the secrets in a magic trick ... Thanks --- " .. we can handle the truth ... " ( gas companies avoid questions like they were asked to kiss a leper ). Noticed insulated / cushioned mount where manifold is screwed to floor joist ( for clearance ) and drop line / trap before entering the furnace ... I'll keep that in mind --- nice ,clean work .

[@pfears1]

Good job, thanks!

[@michaeltowner8871]

I work with this in the UK and you would not have copper running ug here, 1st and 2nd stage regs usually both at tank unless long pipe run ug

[@roberthamilton9245]

Good video

[@michelematin3315]

Good Info.!

[@RobertKraus-tf3is]

at -40F you have 1.42psi which equates to 39.5"wc. So you will have enough pressure to push the LP gas into the house. The question is will you have the volume based on specific gravity to satisfy the need of the furnace?

[@NotSoCrazyNinja]

When I was looking up propane tank sizes and prices, I kept coming across powered propane tank heaters and was wondering wtf they were for. I guess If you live somewhere super cold, you will need one.

[@mrd4292]

cool video !

[@stugeiger4373]

I didn't see you explain the dual supply tank idea; are you testing efficiencies varying with tank volumes of fuel, myself noting that lower volumes see to record more efficient use, although gauge reading sensitives could be an issue there?

[@proscentgifts]

Nice. What is the black cap on 2nd regulator?

[@AlexBianco100]

Great video. I do HVAC and have worked on a number of propane furnaces. Typically the inlet pressure for the appliance is rated for 13 or 14 inches of water column. This ensures a manifold pressure of around 10 or 11 inches. Would there be any issue setting your gas regulator higher at the tank or at the regulator going into the house? Which one would you adjust I guess is my question?

[@ChrisBorghi22]

Thanks for the video Benjamin! I got a question, I’ve just built a food truck using LP. We are In CO, pretty cold winter. Oven takes 3 hours to reach 575 degrees. I understood from your video that the colder outside the less pressure inside the tank. Could this be the reason why my oven takes forever? If so, summer should take much less time to heat up, right? Thanks so much!!!

[@christineclaxton91]

very useful and well done. Question, I have an in ground propane tank (Florida) and have a pigtail added on my patio to use for my gas grill. I am assuming I will need a regulator at the grill, because when I use it without the fire burns way too hot. Am I correct? What type/pressure regulator should I use? Any tips on installation? THANKS

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

It is possible that the connection for your grill came off of the line between the first and second stage regulators? If that was the case the line you hooked up to would be at 10psi when you only need 9-12" of pressure. You could just use a regular regulator for a propane grill as that should reduce the pressure to the correct level. Good luck! Let me know what you end up with!

[@alobeeriaz]

So 2 psi system inside vs say a 1” black steel pipe trunk inside?

[@johnfarley470]

On 2 lb system you got add maxi control on each appliances

[@jamesobrien4596]

In Wisconsin, any idea the minimum distance a 500 gallon LP tank needs to be from the home? Also, my intention is to plumb up my spare 500 gallon LP tank to a generator to feed the house when the power from the local power company goes down. Does one generally run a 3/8" copper tubing from the LP tank to the generator or should one run black pipe underground from LP tank to generator?

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Here in our area the setback from the house is a question for your insurance company but I've heard that as little as 10ft may be adequate. Yes, I would probably run 3/8" copper to the generator then have another regulator to step the pressure down to whatever the generator needs.

[@Mr1krazyfox]

I have two 100# bottles now supplying an emergency generator and a Jen Air cookstove in the house. it is plumbed for a gas fireplace and a future fire pit and grill hookup .Am wanting to install a hot tub as well. Have a 250# tank on other side of house and am going to tie into the main gas line so not to starve the system. will i need to install another regulator before i tie back into the system.? I can tie into the 1st stage regulator before i go to the hot tub correct. can send drawing if this is confusing.

[@ОляП-д4х]

this is good video!

[@jackleonard2088]

Ben great video. I just installed a tankless water heater in our home. We have propane system for our heat, dryer and hot water. The feed at the water heater is 3/8” copper. The tankless water heater keeps shutting off and code indicates it may not be getting enough propane to keep it going as I increase the water temp or call for a higher volume of hot water. Is it possible to have our system modified to support the water heater correctly? Thank you for any knowledge you can provide.

[@aron6998]

Tankless water heater needs much more volume than a 3/8” line can support you will need a 3/4” line at minimum but seeing your question is 7 months old you probably have figured this out

[@jackleonard2088]

Vault 614 thank you. I had to have an heating/ac guy come out and he installed the 3/4” line. Works well now. Appreciate your answer all the same.

[@charlezcaproni6268]

can you run the pipes from the tank to the attic and than run drops down to the inside of the house ? thank you

[@timshull59]

Im planning to do 2 40lb LP tanks with 2 stage auto change over RV regulator with around 30 ft of 3/4 pipe then reduced down to 1/2" behind the range /oven this will be the only appliance I will be running. Does this sound doable to you?

[@RCichard]

Not bad man, cool video and system overview!! We don’t have many with LP system around where I stay so was cool to see how it’s setup. Do you guys get a lot of ground freezing that effects the flow in the winter or as long as it’s more then 40* below the 1.5psi gets your covered still.

[@mikehartnett6422]

What was the catalog number of the black second stage regulator at the house ?

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Second Stage Regulator: amzn.to/2A60R9P That is not the exact one that I have but the one that I am using is a lot older so I don't know where you would find that exact one. Thanks for watching!

[@rosewoodsteel6656]

I forgot one? What type of copper did you use inside? Thanks

[@DONALD1951]

Hi Ben I have a 1000 gallon in ground propane tank. Since it was installed 3 years ago I had several freeze ups where I have no heat or hot water when it gets about 20 degrees or so. Someone mentioned that maybe they didn’t purge the new tank...which they didn’t do,.they just filled it up and have been adding methanol when I call because of freeze ups...I can’t live like this.. any suggestions? Thanks

[@GuldeScott]

Completely empty it, maybe put a vacuum evacuation pump on it for a few days, but the pump might be overkill. Immediately treat with methanol and fill with propane. You should be 100% good after that. Quit letting your tank level get low, and maybe your supplier has water in his tanks.

[@johnfarley470]

Moisture build up in tank

[@nafsucof]

great video! liked and subd!

[@yeahdude1986]

I didn't think you could bury copper like that since it's so soft.

[@fgonzalez78959]

Wrap it with wall insulation for -40

[@andrewyek]

Hii, how do you differentiate 1st stage regulator vs 2nd stage regulator if they are lying on your table ? is there specific thing that you can look at and say : ok this is 1st stage this is 2nd stage ? 2nd question: www.gasprofi24.de/niederdruckregler-ps-16-bar-schwarz/a-5330/ this regulator also said it is 2 stage regulator.. because it has got 2 diaphragm in it. so, what's the different ? thanks andrew

[@andrewmackie1888]

the regulators have data embossed on them the 1st stage regulator outlet pressure will he higher than the 2nd stage regulator

[@CombatDoc54]

The trap on the furnace is wrong.

[@mrstevetrevino]

Newbie here, pardon the question: after the second stage regulator, do you still use the regulator that came with the stove? Or do you simply ignore it?

[@samuelspade889]

mrstevetrevino, I have a dual fuel generator... it has its own regulator. It is just hooked up to the tank no other regulator. I have no idea why this guy has two regulators except he wanted to use a smaller line going from his tank to his house. If you look at a gas grill as an example, you only use the regulator that came with appliance. I am not an expert, so wait for the critics, to tear me a new asshole and use their advice. I found out if you ask you don’t get a reply, but if you state how you did it, then all shade tree plumbers come out of the woodwork.

[@aron6998]

Yes the appliance comes with a regulator and this is still needed even after the line pressure has been reduced to approximately 11” by the regulator either on the tank or at the house

[@aron6998]

@@samuelspade889 well typically real techs don’t like to answer questions that don’t have all the pertinent information bc not having all the info can lead to improper answers but yea you do only use one regulator on a grill bc that regulator is designed to go from full tank pressure to the designed pressure of the grill nothing else needed plus grills are outdoors and require less regulatory interference however indoor appliances must operate at a consistent basis to reduce carbon monoxide and this is one reason for individual regulators at each appliance also if the line pressure regulator fails the appliance regulator is designed to lock up and prevent very large fires inside the home

[@samuelspade889]

Vault 614 , thanks... I get it. So many people are sue-happy and take no responsibility for their own decisions. Thumbs up for you.

[@yvettemeza3384]

To those of us tuning into understanding lp systems you left out what the water column actually does and is

[@robwallingsford9274]

inches of water column (in.wc.) is a meaurement of volume stemming from the use of old school water manometers

[@johnwyman6126]

Once you get to very low PSI numbers typically, the measurements will change to Inches of water. 1PSI is over 27 inches of water column.

[@rall8727]

you changed the orifice too at the burner to small size?

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Ral L Correct. Almost all appliances are natural gas and need a LP conversion kit to work with propane. Thanks for commenting!

[@rmorris3722]

I'd put a tee and another shutoff valve in and run that line to the new area.

[@wdk535]

I'm in Florida. Our problem is exactly opposite of yours - our tanks get hot so pressure is very high. What size copper did you use inside the house?

[@DONALD1951]

wdk535 the 2nd regulator lowers it to 10-12” w.c. That should be constant. So it depends on the length of gas pipe at the furthest point and the total load of all appliances used.

[@ThomasBahamas]

Kind of a stupid question, but in the event of a low pressure/temperature situation, is there a crankcase heater for these tanks in some cases like a compressor would have? Or would it not warrant this because the situation is rare?

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

NSNOfm78 I'm sure that up on the North slope in Alaska they may need something like that but I don't know of anywhere in the lower 48 that it would be below -40 actual temperature for a prolonged period of time. Interesting scenario though!

[@dwaynemiller4305]

Heat trace and insulate the tank.

[@gfriedman99]

If those temps are a possibility they would probably bury the tank underground is my guess.

[@jennysteed5243]

Can the tanks explode...? Thank you for a informative video...

[@KmanJeeper]

Benjamin where would I find one of those manifolds?

[@jonathanrivera3480]

Wrong drip leg on the furnace. It has to be a change of flow drip leg.

[@philsbs2007]

Good God. This 13 year old knows more about gas than most men 😆

[@dankekoa808]

👍👍

[@ronaldren5581]

Why can’t a high output regulator be used on a small appliance? Wouldn’t the appliance just take what it needs and no more?

[@631strongislandkid]

Your putting to much pressure into it. It could explode.

[@DB-cx6cb]

Dude! -40? I would not worry about warming up the tank Somehow? Move to a warmer location.

[@KmanJeeper]

I installed a first stage regulator( www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01NAFLT0L/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) at our tank and plumbed it inside. Do I still need a second stage regulator if our range has a regulator in it? It's a small Premier Holiday with battery spark. I have LP to the stoves regulator but when I try to start it there doesn't seem to be gas coming through the regulator to the burners(I did the NG to LP conversion). The ignitors are working but no LP coming through. Thanks!

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

KmanJeeper You need a second stage regulator like is in the description. A gas range will not work on the 10psi coming from the first stage regulator and may even have damaged your stove. Hopefully not but be careful when you test it again after you install the second stage regulator. Good luck!

[@JorgeSanchez-xm7pc]

Hi, could you tell me if you added a 2nd stage regulator after the 1st stage regulator? I have the same setup and am preparing for this. Pictures would be great.

[@samuelspade889]

I don’t like how we are using different scales and measurements for pressure... then again I think the metric system was invented so I had to buy two sets of tools.

[@larryboulware3063]

Good thing you don’t work on old British cars 😉

[@usaacpatriots712]

No body ever explains water column duh

[@PlanetMojo]

We get to -40℉ here in Wisconsin almost every year. The furnace always worked.

[@vikings844]

You say its 20 degrees! Wouldnt we see your breath?

[@aron6998]

Not necessarily depends on moisture in the atmosphere

[@stevewhite7649]

Propane sucks burn number 2 oil. 92 k btus a gallon lp vs 138k btus oil.

[@dukeraul624]

What about bonding? Does one need to bond the pipe to the panel, or does it running underground prior to 2nd stage regulation cover that? If that covers it, is it kosher to bond the water lines to the gas line? Thanks for your work here, been really digging the content.

[@mrcrock2095]

Very good video bud, very well explained!

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Glad it was helpful!

[@comodice905]

Where du I buy a 1000 gallon tank

[@mitchellsdaz]

If you have 1.5 psi you will have 41.5" wc. Why would that not flow through the 10psi (277"wc) regulator (10psi MAX out) and still be reduced to 11" wc at the house?

[@samuelspade889]

mitchellsdaz, why are we jumping around with pressure units... stay with psi or with inches but not both. I prefer bars.

[@timmyshrall9456]

I was thinking the same thing

[@privacyatty]

How many psi is second regulator

[@DONALD1951]

Best to install large enough pipe inside and not need additional regulators at each appliance if at all possible. IMO

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Agreed.

[@andrewyek]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom Hii, how do you differentiate 1st stage regulator vs 2nd stage regulator if they are lying on your table ? is there specific thing that you can look at and say : ok this is 1st stage this is 2nd stage ? 2nd question: www.gasprofi24.de/niederdruckregler-ps-16-bar-schwarz/a-5330/ this regulator also said it is 2 stage regulator.. because it has got 2 diaphragm in it. so, what's the different ? thanks andrew

[@aron6998]

@@andrewyek I know I’m late to the party here but seen no answer to your question, the visual difference between first and second stage is color typically the first stage is bright red and second stage is any color picked by manufacturer also the other differences typically are the fitting used on the inlet side of the regulator the inlet of the first stage are usually (but not always) left hand threaded and the inlet of the second stage is normal pipe thread. The link you provided shows a regulator that I’ve never seen of course I’m in the US and this appears to be European and their stuff is always designed so differently but I could assume it’s what we call an integral regulator and it takes tank pressure down to operating pressure of approximately 11” these can be used for a single appliance but not for a whole house application bc they are not designed for large volume

[@davidhaley7053]

Excellent job. Thank you from northern MN.

[@wildmanofborneo]

Hi can the 2 propane tanks just be connected together at their full pressure (not through any regulator), and have them both simultaneously supply a regulator? I have a 500 gallon tank, and want to add a second 500 gallon tank.

[@elizabethvillalobos8927]

Now I have to go back even further because I don’t know what psi and all that stuff means. 😀

[@pillpoppinpolly]

Very informative, thanks

[@rosewoodsteel6656]

Great video, Ben! Couple of questions for you. 1) What size black pipe did you transition to after he regulator? 2) What size is your interior copper transition from the black pipe? Thanks, John

[@silverdragontaylir8252]

If you shut off multi valve at tank can you change 300 psi gauge at multivalve (same) location

[@aron6998]

You can change or add a 300 psig gauge at the service valve with it on or off, turning the valve off only affects the gas going into the piping but where the gauge connects to the valve there’s a 54 orifice inside so the gauge can be replaced at anytime with gas inside container

[@FastEddieQ]

Thank you gor all good information, can you post a video adjusting psi at secondary regulator

[@Euphroe]

DO NOT TOUCH ANY REGULATOR IF NOT PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED! You have to be certified to adjust gas service regulators!

[@terrysanders2817]

Well presented!

[@hibobb123456]

Ben, The regulator at the 3:42 mark, isn't the vent normally on the output side

[@schickmann]

well done.

[@flatulencer]

You show USA Made REGO regulators, but give LINKS to Chinese Regulators. Links goes to Chinese made Emerson-Fisher regulators. The RED First Stage regulator you show is REGO LV3403TR and the Second Stage appears to be a REGO also, but you don't specify model. Great video...thanks!

[@BenjaminSahlstrom]

Unfortunately I wasn't able to find the Rego options online. They must only be sold through distributors mostly. Let me know if you find them online somewhere!

[@flatulencer]

@@BenjaminSahlstrom : REGO LV3403TR can be found on eBay, Amazon, propaneproducts.com, propane-regulators.com, solaresflorida.com, propanedepot.ca, tarantin.com and others. Just use your favorite search engine and type in REGO LV3403TR and look for the best price and availability. Amazon will steer you to what they want you to buy, but Amazon does sell Rego regulators (although not always in stock). eBay does have the best prices, but you MAY not be buying from an authorized distributor. If you make another propane related video, it would be helpful to show the differences between a 2 stage system and a system with a 2 psi regulator (3 regulators) and the pressures each handle. An explanation of water column pressures and how they convert to psi would also take out the mystery to homeowners. Maybe a chart and/or visual showing showing how each stage works from tank pressure to water column/appliance pressure would help. THANKS AGAIN.