How Each Character Should Be Buffed or Nerfed! - Tekken 8

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[@Messatsu01]

Justice for Asuka!

[@kylefields3951]

I think Alisa Chainsaws need to be looked at, but not for the reasons people say. Alisa has some of the highest potential for a comeback due to the system mechanics introduced in Tekken 8. When you hit a Heat Engager, you gain Grey Health back. Totally fine on its own, everyone has access to this mechanic. The issue is that Alisa's Heat Engagers leave her in Chainsaws and the way the Heat Engagers work is that you are guaranteed a Mixup as an additional reward for landing said Heat Engager, the opponent cannot move or Counter-Hit your attacks. Fair enough, everyone has access to this. Alisa's big problem is that she lands a Heat Engager, gains Grey Health back, gets to enforce a Mix with the Chainsaws, deals big Chip Damage with them if you block, *AND* she gains a lot of leftover Grey Health that the Heat Engager didn't Heal. Watch KiraKira's Matches from Electric Clash. He came back so many times because the situation after the Heat Engage is FUCKED. Because Alisa's Chainsaws count as multiple Hits, she gets extra Health than a normal character would from landing attacks on Block because she's landing so many, and while this is happening, she's DEALING damage to the opponent, even if they have their guard up. It's crazy. It really is incredibly strong. The reason this is a bad thing is that it reduces a very complex and interesting character to-> If you're not doing Chainsaw Stance, you're asking to lose. And that's very unfortunate design. Good design means you explore many aspects, not just do the one that wins.

[@row6191]

As a alisa main i agree. Chainsaws are annoying but not stronger than for example lili bt stance. People often act like there is no counterplay at all just guessing. That might be right after a heat engager but not in general. I agree with fergus tho, f2,1 should be around -13, chip should be less and d4,1+2 -5 or something.

[@swordysan]

@@row6191 I understand the frustration and I am biased as an Alisa main. But how can you argue doing these devastating nerfs like on f2,1, d4,1+2, and chainsaws - when Alisa is not even in the top 10 characters in this game. She is comfortably mid tier, fergus wants to nerf or tone down half the cast which is just ridiculous.

[@row6191]

@@swordysani think the problem is that everyone is too strong. These nerfs would be okay if all other chars get nerfed as well. Lili and Jun (which i play too) are way stronger and deserve more nerfs. And about drag and feng i dont even want to talk about…

[@ginosmile]

This is exactly what I was thinking about when Fergus was talking about Alisa. I've lost to that character multiple time because of the insane healing she gets if she happens to land a heat engager with chainsaws. I would argue that her healing potential is even stronger than Jun's.

[@jkdman2007]

Alisa players are so carried by that braindead chainsaws. All they want to do is repeating the same chainsaw pattern. You can''t differentiate any Alisa players and most of them play exactly the same.

[@tkmfub2048]

„Can be executed a lil bit“ 😭

[@ShadowThunder1234]

Asuka needs to be first on that buff list

[@franksterkb891]

namco did asuka dirty

[@jkdman2007]

Jun is the better version of Asuka. We don't need two similar characters in a game.

[@edward_lohan247]

I get Jun is strong but I also feel like learning her mix ups will help you counter / punish critical attempts and beat her. Tier lists are important but I think that’s for high rank like Tekken God and up. All other ranks should just learn fundamentals and they should be fine

[@lazytommy0]

i love the idea of this tier list, and i agree mostly with your placings.

[@MrSquishy0]

Honestly -10 for Alisa F2,1 isn't bad but the second hit shoundnt have any pushback so that everyone can get a consistent punish Also if they nerf chip across the whole cast that should tone done the chainsaws aswell

[@bluegrave4376]

For Jun, I think that making the second hit of her heat smash not track would be a good change. Also make cancans low parry-able. They require no commitment. Obviously, buff the hell out of Asuka to make up for that too lol. Besides that, they shouldn't do much else imo. Jun is good, but she's not as brain dead as other top tiers since her best moves take away her health, so there's a deterrent to spamming them, unlike other infamous moves

[@TheNonHiddenSingularity]

Jun is definitely the most braindead out of all the top tiers Not the strongest, but the most braindead

[@bluegrave4376]

@@TheNonHiddenSingularity so you're saying someone can pick up Jun more easily than Dragunov? That's just not true

[@TheNonHiddenSingularity]

@@bluegrave4376 that’s absolutely true, and also, you can do better faster with Jun while Dragunov is extremely fundamental so there is no knowledge check with him compared to Jun where you can spam that string giving you free mixup Or your Kankan being safe Or your heat smash splatting for 12 or 14f and full healing you, not steppable Come on now y’all are on the same boat but Jun is somehow stronger before tekken king ranks

[@edward_lohan247]

Most characters can be used in brain dead manner. But learning complex match ups / mix ups takes skill regardless of the character. I’ve definitely seen some brain dead Jun but I’ve also seen some use very impressive mix ups.

[@bluegrave4376]

@@TheNonHiddenSingularity Dragunov has the easiest pressure tools in the game. No need to know fundamentals right away when you can just do running 2, d2, hatchet kick, b4,3, and ff3. Jun is really good, but just one very easy to counter string is not enough to say that she's the easiest in the game

[@carlod803]

For Asuka, just make her can-cans same as Jun and bring back 1,1 can-cans and not be forced on that very readable snake edge.

[@johnske6691]

the new d2 is a big nerf too now the combo work only on heat

[@jkdman2007]

We don't need 2 juns in a game.

[@jkdman2007]

@@mikekyeame975 They share some moves. You can't say they are completely different. They are the same MA style. The playstyle is similar.

[@StormXXII]

Whats the difference between jun's cancan and asuka's?

[@carlod803]

@@StormXXII Jun's start-up frame is 1 frame faster, is -6 (Asuka is -8), and pushes farther on block.

[@richardajayi3194]

You don't think Claudio needs buffs seriously?

[@SuntoryKick]

I agree with the heat smash change but if they do that to DVJ’s hellsweep then he’ll be dead lol His whole thing is that he’s the Mishima with a launching low and most of the damage it does is recoverable. If you don’t need to respect DVJ’s hell sweep then everything else is going to start to fall apart.

[@thoraero]

Bamco's idea is to buff everyone to that EXECUTE's level.

[@flamboyant91]

What do you mean by Lili having a G-Clef?

[@jaco5790]

Guaranteed three hit string 1,1,3

[@flamboyant91]

I see, thanks bud! Guaranteed on CH, right?

[@AsukasButler]

Solid list. Too bad they have no intention of listening to us.

[@BradWest-q5o]

Nice video as always Fergus keep up the great work look forward to seeing more asuka content in the world

[@Masta_jay]

Azucena in front over Feng, Dragunov & Ling really?

[@gamrage]

Devil Jin's Hell Sweep only launching in heat sounds like a reasonable nerf. He gets SO MUCH damage out of every Hell Sweep. It's absurd! I feel like this list also doubles as a tier list.

[@TheNonHiddenSingularity]

yeap we are glad you don't do balance patch you dummy ! he got a lot of damage against completely losing neutral. also all the damage is grey and FINALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT : he doesn't have either good mids to mix with or poking ! but y'all have no clue about the game, you just see : oh Heat smash strong and hellsweep strong. Get out of Garyu ffs

[@SuntoryKick]

45 damage, most of which is recoverable, on a move where he dies if you block it lol

[@Hypercube1729]

Nah, tone down Victor, Hwoarang and Eddy, They're all such spammy flowchart character, there's no opening. And if there is, they just powercrush and continue the flowchart.

[@jkdman2007]

Remove chip damage.

[@CosmicVoid420]

Victor is not that problematic. The only nerf he needs is u1+2 in heat damage and tracking nerf. 54 dmg or whatever is way too high. And maybe nerf b1+2 along with all the other safe fast high powercrushes

[@jkdman2007]

His power crush is too good. I think they need to tone down his sword damage. It's too braindead and big damage without any skill.

[@tryingtochangemyways5074]

Eddy😂He so free that Eddy players don't even want to finish the set with me..Wtf you struggle vs eddy for?

[@symonheiloguu]

Bears should never get buffed, they should cease to exist

[@Dulansiriwardhana]

Lili mains always gains damage by finishing combo set with valla move.If that is going to be nerfed neither a damage from a combo set nor victory because it is her damage output key.

[@dapperdan-dw5zl]

8:03 THANK YOU

[@Dmitchell579]

What's a g clap or whatever clap ?

[@davidparry5310]

G-clef Cannon. It's a CH-launching string that starts with a standing 1 jab.

[@Vert_GreenHeart]

When a character get nerfed or buffed doesnt that also affect other characters as well ? Like if we follow this list it would be a class1 disaster of a balance all over agai .

[@AyCarp]

jin needs a giant buff, make his wr2 13 frames and give him more damage

[@LordViktorHun88]

I am not a pro player, so I wouldn't discredit any pro opinion, but as a Xiaoyu main I think she has to be in the realm of only toned down at best. The reason is that her pick rate and win/loss ratio is still some of the worst in the game, which is a pure statistic. It means to me that she didn't become more popular despite all the cries, so still only character enthusiasts use her, but even they struggle to win with her. Unlike other broken characters which have clear advantage in those numbers (eg. Dragunov) And the reason cannot be that Ling mains in general are too stupid to use their own otherwise OP character effectively.

[@davideguernieri5115]

I would only give Bryan one thing back, Nothern Cross CH. He needs one high crushing scary tool in this environment.

[@row6191]

bro got an electric

[@davideguernieri5115]

@@row6191 does not high crush. Its insanely strong but doesnt really track at all. Its not a move u can just throw out, u need to condition them to not duck and not move. Electrics tracks on the left, and occasionally high crush. Northern cross back to doing something on ch would be great, if it guarantees a follow up without being a launcher. The only hogh crushing thing is db3 and is quite lackluster.

[@row6191]

@@davideguernieri5115yeah yeah ik that elctric is way stronger still is a very strong move

[@Dulansiriwardhana]

At this rate next champion defenitely going to be alisa or jack 8

[@Rodniikun]

Give asuka a full screen frame 1 rage art and armor on all normals

[@dechuggs9129]

Bears need nerfs to the wall combo but other than that small buffs are alright

[@thephantazm5139]

Reina ff2 being 12 frames is wild and i play the character

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

good non bias list

[@mehrankhan7871]

Raven requires buffs.and better tools.he is not a t8 character right now,mostly a t7 character

[@yanu_doe]

Jin is on Drag's level tbh

[@eutimiolongoria4696]

Drag should get a guaranteed ws+4 if his d2 counterhits.

[@maskidle]

lol no

[@symonheiloguu]

Are you crazy

[@adeebh1238]

Looks great

[@clairemadeinheaven]

me as a Reina FF2 enjoyerer who can't hit confirm

[@orhblin]

As a Reina main I will say that everybody got a read on that ff2 by thos point. Due to how popular she is, everybody and their grandmar know her entire moveset. Ff2 is one of her key moves, nerf it and she'll be a fish on the floor xD

[@TheNonHiddenSingularity]

What is the point exactly of having a ff2 that can phase like that on block ? Make it impossible to transition to stance after ff2 on block and the character is ok I guess

[@orhblin]

​@@TheNonHiddenSingularity Reina's plan relies on strong mids and highs due to her having abysmal lows. If you take away her ability to sentai out of a blocked ff2, it would be punishable and terrible. She would loose the range she needs to compensate for her lackluster lows and would not be able to gain momentum from neutral. ff2 can be still be punished on block if you jab or evade her 3 high kick. Everything that comes out of her sentai stance has a counterplay.

[@TheNonHiddenSingularity]

@@orhblin oh come on now I didn’t say to make it punishable I said no transition Like other mishimas Yeah your « counterplay » is : guess right That’s not a counterplay and it’s braindead Her hellsweep is absolutely brutal with the stance transition Also she had homing low from 2 miles away Her 1,1,2 is the best in the game That ff2 transition is just too much on block ! Especially knowing that she has a confirm with it

[@orhblin]

@@TheNonHiddenSingularity my bad, it’s -9 on block, I thought it was at least -11 when you don’t transition. My point stands tho, losing her ability to transition into sentai from blocked ff2 would be crippling.

[@TheNonHiddenSingularity]

@@orhblin it would make her a somehow almost honnest character ? Why the hell should she be able to do such things

[@zeratul7x]

Asuka will be nerfed in the next patch, 100% info

[@Mandolin_AU]

A few notes: Youre wrong about Leo, the wall combo needs to go yes but also their heatdash followup, they get extra wall carry with ws1 4 1 post heat dash and that needs to go. Lee b3 3 natural also needs to go, I will die on this hill or AT LEAST make it minus on hit. Leroy db4 needs to be -13 or -14, give back HRM f1 ch properties, give it the backlash property on ch into grounded hit. Make d1+2 either less minus on block or force crouch again on block. Make df1 -4 on block not -6 Fix Jacks hitbox, he phases through too much shit, gut Drags combo damage and his db3+4 Remove tracking on throws, maybe let 1 and 2 throws track their respective side MAYBE.

[@CHAMIONandBOO]

Ok, everything makes sense, but DVJ I'm not a competitive player like you, but dealing with dvj in T8 is easy In all of his key moves, he has nothing that tracks. If you wanna talk about a character, then you should cover his entire game plan. The worst df1 in the game bf2 doesn't track anymore ewgf nerf bad homing moves if uf+4 is useless and stepping and ducking against him will work most of the time You will step the ff2 and block the hellsweep

[@burhanerginn]

Imagine thinking Hwoarang is fine and Lili needs nerfs. Even knee admitted Lili is not okay and needs buffs

[@TheNonHiddenSingularity]

you might be delusional, everyone is playing lili in the competitive scene

[@radicalstanza3614]

Xiaoyu has a low win percentage so she should be significantly buffed for sure

[@LinkJihu]

I hope this is sarcasm 💀

[@jkdman2007]

Low winrate doesn't mean she is weak. That's completely different things. Winrate depends on the tekken level of players and population. That means some scrub ling players made the winrate lower.

[@radicalstanza3614]

@@jkdman2007 Win rate is obviously one of the main things they're going to base balancing on. They can't just go 'oh, those 3 world class players are doing really well' and then do something to significantly weaken the character for the average player that's already struggling to break even. (But yes, of course my previous comment was a joke. It'd be insane to buff her. I just strongly doubt they'll nerf anything that affects anything but the tippy top players)

[@hoopa1604]

Bro alisa is nerfed af in 8 her frames are a mess now😢

[@imsoaverage]

I agree, buff Asuka ❤

[@AstralAbstraction]

Good list

[@StormXXII]

BUFF LARS, FENG, JUN, LING AND DRAG PLEASSSSSSEEEE

[@al8704]

They're not gna nerf drags trust. They did that last game and lost half their casuals. They ain't gna make a dumb mistake like that again. Cool vid tho lol

[@loupast7587]

Xiaoyu Hyp low should be -13 on zero steps the rest is up to you😂

[@zeratul7x]

Asuka will be nerfed in the next patch, 100% info. #BuffAsukaPlease

[@GreatGrandmasterWang]

Lee needs buff

[@Rodniikun]

I don't think jun is nearly as bad as evergone thinks. Just nerf her heat burts and make her F2 1+2 take more grey health.

[@KobeKore]

lol

[@franksterkb891]

yeah fuck king! hahaha

[@-LAH]

Wtf is a g cleff?

[@empiresloth]

A 3 hit string that launches

[@dr.setups2278]

A I10 jab string that is fully guaranteed on ch. Lili:113 Asuka:124 Bears:f111 Julia:111

[@yoleornole885]

♥️

[@P-Likan]

Agreed on all accounts except for Eddy (he should be in execute or tone down at the very least, even top players who know the matchup and labbed him to death before Evo Japan like JDCR for example, get murdered by him. His animations are misleading, his damage is insane, his mids unsteppable, coupled with braindead execution and evasiveness, he is top tier).

[@QuintessenceHD]

More tears about Xaioyu when she hasn't won anything, gotta love the crying echo chamber from high levels that have to actually learn how to fight her now.

[@Koenji]

When you learn how to fight her you easily realise how fucked up she is in this game

[@jameledeen3890]

No yoshi is fine and thé Guard break is counter by back rolls

[@C0rnwallace]

This is incorrect. A properly executed guard break setups from a standard df2 combo beats everything, including backrolls. The only way to avoid it is to stay down and take the grounded hit.

[@AyCarp]

i have never seen such a bad tierlist omg

[@ICEMAN-Z8]

Of course u gonna put your character to buff section, wt a dumb vid to click into

[@Dead-Eyed-Man]

Not sure you can call a “bias” when everyone in the community around the world know/agree that Asuka is weak and needs some buffs. 😂

[@godslayer832100]

Maybe you should think a bit & prepare some arguments before releasing such a video. Like, all Tekken 8 characters in a 15 minutes video? You're sharing an opinion, that's it. It's your right to do so but kinda pointless if you don't back it up.