How Games Get Miniguns Wrong - Loadout

[@IrregularDave]

It took all my restraint not to do an awful Team Fortress 2 Heavy impression during recording this... Thanks so much for watching this episode though, this one was a lot of fun, and we're following it up with a more in-depth discussion of the Minigun with Jonathan next week. Where I get to try and actually pick up one of these things.... So be sure to subscribe so you don't miss that, and as always I look forward to reading your comments and the Tweets you send my way (@IrregularDave), so be sure to drop your thoughts or what else you'd like to see an episode on. And once more, thank you for all the support on the series, and we are glad you enjoy!

[@fireaza]

Dave is kredit to teem!

[@IrregularDave]

@@fireaza **Tosses a sandvich**

[@StevenGarcia-im8rr]

*Jon walks into frame after Dave's intro* "What is this?! Who touched Sasha? WHO TOUCHED MY GUN?!!"

[@ind0minusr3x51]

Sasha is powerfull

[@Amateur_Ambiance]

It was a pleasure seeing you, bro. Good presentation.

[@cosmosandchill]

The Terminator's handheld use of the minigun is definitely "realistic", since he's a killing machine from the future who is very capable of handling a 200kg weapon and compensating for recoil.

[@aunusuallylargecat1779]

Not only that he is very much capable of holding it, He is very much capable of powering it with electricity with his own Core or "futuristic battery" of some sort.

[@IrregularDave]

@@aunusuallylargecat1779 I like this theory! Using some kind of connection to use his core's power to make the thing run.

[@patrikhjorth3291]

I was about to comment the same thing. It's kind of telling that we have to assume the existence of a time-travelling murderous cyborg in order to consider it "realistic".

[@SergioHernandez-zv5wc]

Mini guns don’t weigh 200kg. The M134 weighs in at 39kg. Any decently average strength human can hold that and fire it. Recoil would be the hard thing to effectively compensate for

[@TrungNguyen-uf8cv]

@@SergioHernandez-zv5wc didn't you watch it? The gun, the powerpack and ammo to fire that for 1min weight 200kg

[@fireaza]

Surprised they didn't mention the trope in games of the minigun overheating and needing to cool down before you can resume shooting. Since, y'know the whole point of having multiple spinning barrels is to prevent overheating!

[@fredbyoutubing]

Yeah they always do that instead of running out of ammo, which would happen very quickly.

[@romaliop]

also the minigun shoots hardly any faster than the fastest single barrel submachine guns and does more or less the same amount of damage

[@MARxBLADE01]

@@romaliop Hate to tell you man, but the mini gun can fire anywhere from 2000 to 6000 rounds per minute. One of the fastest firing single barrel subs is the Kriss Vector around 1200 rpm. It only fires a 45/9mm round. Also not very effective at range.

[@MARxBLADE01]

Always thought the overheating trope was hilarious! 😂

[@socksleeve]

@@MARxBLADE01 i think he means that in game miniguns rarely fire much faster than the fastest firing submachine gun, Especially in multiplayer.

[@Irondrone4]

A few notes about the minigun from Predator: The minigun is only firing at a quarter (I believe) of it's maximum speed, because even with blanks the recoil was too much for the actors and stuntmen to handle. To save weight (and probably to ensure the weapon was safe), the actors and stuntmen never carried a power source for it. Only when they needed to shoot it was it connected to an off screen battery, which was connected via a cable running down the user's pant leg. I'm willing to be more than a few other depictions of the weapon also borrowed these tricks when they decided to use a minigun.

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

More ofthen it is used a false gun, shooting propane bursts intead of blanks. It is almost as heavy as the real think, minus the ammo, and it is much cheaper than running a few zillion blanks per scene, and is much safer. In those movies the spent cases are just dropped out of the chute, CGI, or the gun os filmed at an angle that does not show them.

[@BT-ex7ko]

The m134 does have variable RPM, the absolute bare minimum, which I've never heard of being used, is 300 allegedly. But again, I've never seen it. I don't think any game or movie outside some milsim titles actually truly show the gun firing at the maximum 6,000rpm. Typical 134's are setup to fire at either 2,000rpm or 6,000rpm via a selctor switch. I believe any slower or customized fire rates are set by an armourer.

[@TrojanManSCP]

Matrix is definitely a real gun firing blanks, as you can see from the falling brass that they're fired blank cartridges and not standard 7.62 brass. That's a very expensive scene. Then again, the whole movie was very expensive, so...

[@mountbuckekreative4044]

Btw he Minigun from Predator and Terminator 2 are the same gun. It was nicknamed "Old Painless". I guess that shows that even Holywood did not build lots of these things. Newer films probably use more of the "trick guns", or CGI, since it is safer and less expensive.

[@slc308]

The minigun used in Predator by Jesse Ventura was a real one toned down to about 1200 rounds a minute. Also they had a stuntman behind Jesse Ventura pushing him forward because the recoil and weight knocked him backwards. You can actually see another person's boots behind him in the one scene.

[@MWSin1]

Inventor: "I've created a weapon that will make war too terrifying to even contemplate." Military: "We'll take ten thousand!"

[@wallamazoo01]

Military: And we will improve it too!

[@pierrecurie]

@@wallamazoo01 Alfred Nobel: "I've created an even more powerful weapon that will make war too terrifying to even contemplate." Military: "We'll take ten million!"

[@NoVamp3499]

​@@pierrecurie J. Robert Oppenheimer: "I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

[@triparadox.c]

@@pierrecurie FYI, Nobel who invented dynamites originally meant to help blowing mines for easier access to ores and other stuff without menial labor.

[@pierrecurie]

@@triparadox.c In particular, his invention was safety focused - nitroglycerin had a bad habit of exploding when smacked around too hard, while dynamite did not.

[@ReSpark141]

something seldom mentioned is that the system used on the minigun makes it misfire tolerant, meaning any rounds that fail to fire are simply ejected

[@dark2023-1lovesoni]

Somewhat early version liked to jam if fired in short burst. Clearing jams on them can be quite annoying.

[@tadferd4340]

The delinker is the weakpoint.

[@stephanepoirier5582]

Thank you. I learned something today.

[@daliilars3350]

The only people complaining the Terminator can hold the minigun forget that the Terminator is A FRICKING TERMINATOR.

[@RealBadGaming52]

People for get this

[@Brass319]

same goes for in halo how master chief can just yank really really heavy turrets off of their mounts, he's in a power suit capable of lifting like 5 imperial tons

[@monad_tcp]

@@Brass319 the part about imperial is less believing, like, it's 2500 something already

[@chaimafaghet7343]

@@monad_tcp Short tons (what the US calls a ton) is 2000lbs. The Imperial ton or long ton (what the rest of the world calls a ton) is 2240lbs, which is near enough the same thing as a metric tonne for casual use.

[@sophiacristina]

Also Doom guy, he moves at the light speed and hold thousands of weapons somewhere, also gores monsters with punches... I think he can handle a minigun...

[@Shadowpaw67]

I kinda like how they're depicted in Fallout specifically. The idea that the only people carrying them around are Super-Mutants and people in Power Armor, which is a massive nuclear-powered exoskeleton, makes sense in terms of a person using it. The Fallout 4 depiction even adds a gigantic backpack of ammo when you're using it, instead of just pretending you have 500 rounds in a tiny box

[@ShermanTheMajor]

In fallout 3 you have a backpack not in 4

[@rene3781]

U can equip everyone w the minigun. Sum villagers just grab them by fallen attackers n run around w that thing all the time :-D

[@ponchorodriges8460]

fallout still has the spin up and in fallout 4 they are one of the weakest weapons because they only deal around 3 damage per shot and have a very low accuracy so it can't be used well at range and with the spin up they aren't really effective up close either, most of this stems from the fact that you get it at the beginning so they balanced it so it wouldn't be overpowered despite the fact that it's minigun it's supposed to be overpowered

[@Nerthos]

@@ponchorodriges8460 judging from weapon behaviour, damage and ammunition cost in the game compared to other ammo types, I think the weapon is well done. The"5mm" ammo deals a bit less damage per shot than the .32 rimfire cartridge used in pipe guns and old revolvers, and goes for 1 cap a round, cheapest of all ammo. From this we can assume that the "5mm" round is just a centerfire version of .22lr, explaining damage, recoil, and how the character can easily run while carrying 500 loaded rounds. As for the spinup, they're using 200 year old batteries that barely work anymore.

[@devlintaylor9520]

@@ponchorodriges8460 wait isnt the spinup realistic? i remember the spinup being fast in fallout, maybe not

[@doublep1980]

Fun Fact: the mini-gun used in Predator & T2 is exactly the same weapon, because both movie productions got all their fire-arms from the same company, that provides guns for movie/tv productions. Same goes for the Beretta 92 F, that Mel Gibson & Bruce Willis are carrying in Lethal Weapon 1 & Die Hard 1, respectively. Again, it was the same company providing all the guns for both these movies.

[@juliancantarelli]

Also, there's a theroy that links those two movies. Like The Terminator was molded from the Schwarzenegger character in Predator.

[@anywhere_but_here9546]

Mannco.?

[@moseszero3281]

The thing I find funny is all the B movies with Starship Troopers gear/guns that came out. They must have had trucks full of that stuff by the end of production.

[@ministryofwrongthink6962]

… Let’s hope they didn’t provide the guns for “RUST” 😬

[@brentwilliams7941]

Well, there is only one mini-gun in Hollywood, so every one that isn't CGI is the same gun regardless if its hand held or mounted to something.

[@11jerans]

It’s also weird how miniguns always seem to have infinite ammo in games, or it has 500 rounds but it takes two minutes of continuous firing to deplete those 500 rounds. The minigun, even the ones mounted on vehicles, should only have 2000-4000 rounds and should chew through them alarmingly fast

[@TheJBerg]

2000 rounds is like 15 seconds of trigger time.

[@Domo3000]

In TF2 the heavy says that it costs 200.000 dollars to fire it for a minute, as it uses so many rounds

[@child_eater889]

@@Domo3000 10,000 rounds per minute at 200 dollars PER round

[@turtlelore2]

isn't there a saying that the cost of shooting a minigun for even a single second would cost like $5000?

[@TheJBerg]

@@turtlelore2 RPM is 53* cartridges per second, at $2 per round, that's just north of $100 per second. 2000 rounds would be $4000 for 37* seconds of bliss.

[@Beamer490]

"A minigun with all the necessary equipment would weigh 440 lbs" The doomslayer: *those are rookie numbers*

[@bulldozer281]

Graystillplays reference

[@PitFriend1]

Bit of trivia about the weight of the ammunition for a minigun. A belt of 100 7.62x51mm cartridges weighs 3 pounds. I used to carry an M60 machinegun a very long time ago so I became VERY familiar with this weight. A minigun will eat this amount of ammunition every 1-2 seconds depending on the rate of fire. So how long did the minigun fire constantly in Predator? Multiply the number of seconds by three and that’s how many pounds of ammo was supposedly being carried in that smallish pack, alongside the two truck batteries to power the thing. Movie magic!

[@Mr_T_Badger]

Boo, spoilsport! 😋 Seriously though, thank you for sharing that.

[@shootinbruin3614]

A 100 round belt of 7.62 is 6 pounds, while a hundred rounds of linked 5.56 weighs approximately 3. That’s double the amount of movie magic necessary!

[@slc308]

They had 500 rounds in the pack for terminator and toned down the gun down to about 1200 rounds a minute. The special edition of Predator talks about this. Also Jessie Ventura had a man behind him pushing him forward on order to show him walking. And that was with blank rounds.

[@genericscottishchannel1603]

Interdimensional ammo storage

[@platinumchromee3191]

@@genericscottishchannel1603 DoomGuy be like:

[@jasonirwin4631]

A .50 Cal episode would be great. A episode focused on the M2 and the dshka since games tend to use them in the exact same roles would be fun to see.

[@IrregularDave]

On the Browning M2 rather than .50 cal as a concept? 👀

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

Crysis 2-3, Far Cry 2 & 5, Battlefield 3-4, and especially Squad are my top choices for both spectacle and realism.

[@aresdonachelo5283]

Nah! Flamethrower episode next pls

[@F1ghteR41]

@@IrregularDave .50 cal/12.7 mm machinegun as a concept would be more interesting, I believe.

[@dannyzero692]

@@AnonEMus-cp2mn I love Squad's depiction of the M2, so powerful yet so cool

[@thetattoodmini]

I've actually had a chance to fire one during my time in the US Army, and the one thing I always think about whenever I hear miniguns in games, I notice the difference in the sound of the guns. very few of them get the right sound for a minigun.

[@vice.nor.virtue]

What was it like firing one of these things? I imagine it's the closest thing we have to literal laserbeams on the battlefield

[@thetattoodmini]

@@vice.nor.virtue it is definitely a memorable moment. having to help set up the whole weapon system, taking the time to link all the ammo from cans to hoppers, and then getting into the system and letting loose... watching that tracer stream is definitely like being in some scifi movie, but it goes quick... that's why we were trained for short, sustained bursts to get our bearing and then longer burst once we got it aimed where we wanted it.

[@vice.nor.virtue]

@@thetattoodmini Looking at the thing I did easily imagine that there was a whole process behind how you use it. Not exactly just a point and shoot adventure. Aww man, I wanna fire one of these things! I could imagine that once you're finished firing something with such incredible power you're a bit like FUUUU- thanks for sharing your story!

[@mattmarzula]

@@vice.nor.virtue I would say that the literal laser beams we have on the battlefield are the closest thing we have to firing literal laser beams on the battlefield.

[@vice.nor.virtue]

@@mattmarzulawell yea, but I’m talking about fictional destructive power as if they were basically cyclops from x-men. A mini gun is the closest analogue we have to that kind of infinite ballistic flow.

[@Trixieflips]

Didn't even mention how slow this gun is in games, in reality it's like 10 times faster. Frickin crazy

[@crash4267]

Games really underestimate how fast and close the bullets are when they're fired

[@luckhanh2549]

i think some game have engine limitation, for example in deep rock galactic they have to make the minigun use 2 ammo to fire one bullet to simulate the fast firerate simply because they can't have any weapon fire faster than 30 round per second

[@theuselessteammate2097]

30 rps... Vs 6000 30x60=1800 rpm This is the a tual fire rate, which is comparatively patgetic

[@luckhanh2549]

@@theuselessteammate2097 well yes, that the point, any faster than that is not possible for them so real fire rate is not really an option

[@theuselessteammate2097]

@@luckhanh2549 who says its not possible

[@mattyb7183]

I once got chance to go around a factory that makes miniguns and talk to some of the people involved. They where building them for the US Army and according to them standard doctrine was to only fire the weapon for about a second or two. As the rate of fire is such that any more than that is overkill for most targets (not to mention the huge amount of ammo required for any substantial amount of firing). And if you need to fire it for more than that, then you have got yourself into a world of trouble that probably needs more than a minigun to get you out from.

[@dgafbrapman688]

the mini gun is not a burst fire weapon, short 1 or 2 second bursts would jam it. And when the mini gun jams it requires a total disassembly of the cam feed mechanism. Mini guns are used mainly for indirect suppressing fire, long sweeping volleys is the proper technique.

[@clydecraft5642]

@@dgafbrapman688 acting like its a rifle you can keep tapping the trigger is where it jams, ive seen people stop and continue firing in videos, but it requires you to stop firing for atleast a second or 2

[@dgafbrapman688]

@@clydecraft5642 yes you can fire bursts, but not in the way described of 1 or 2 seconds. Your addition to the conversation was somewhat moot.

[@Colo629]

@@dgafbrapman688 that's only true for the ge m134. Since early 2000s US military uses the Dillon M134D. On the D variant you absolutely can do quick 1 second bursts with no jamming. You also have direct access to the delinker to clear jams, no dissasembly required.

[@dgafbrapman688]

@@Colo629 ive heard about the easier delinking thing, while new designs may make it more forgiving to accidents, it doesnt change the fact that the firing system is designed for sustained fire. It will still jam, hence why they made it easier to clear jams.

[@laernulienlaernulienlaernu8953]

You've gotta love the camel-mounted Gatling gun.

[@nimay13]

Metal Slug fan I see.

[@Aaahrg]

Isnt that an unit in AoE3 too?

[@TaylorDev_Official]

the WHAT?

[@shoelicker]

@@nimay13 it goes so hard tho

[@Linux_MissingNo]

If I can recall, it was done irl but of course, it was only for one particular conflict

[@mulrich]

The chain guns in "DOOM (2016)" and "DOOM Eternal" are actually chain-driven, meaning it's not a misnomer in those two games. And let's not forget that the DOOM Slayer is, well, the Slayer.

[@isafatcat]

are they really? I never noticed that, ill have to go back and take a look in the model viewer

[@mulrich]

@@isafatcat I'm not sure you can see it on the weapon model, but the description says so.

[@Helperbot-2000]

Chainguns use external power to cycle the action, so miniguns should also be chainguns by that definition, meaning its both a chaingun and a gatling style weapon

[@bramvanduijn8086]

Like the video said, a chain gun is a specific type of single barrel gun. That means the doom chain gun cannot be one actual chain gun, it has to be six chain guns glued together.

[@mulrich]

@@bramvanduijn8086 it's a bit of a blurred line. At the most basic definition, a chain gun is a firearm that uses an external power source to cycle the weapon, linked with a chain. Something like the M134 Minigun uses an external power source, but isn't linked with a chain, so it's not a chain gun. So it's further said that a chain gun only has a single barrel. The chain guns in "DOOM (2016)" and DOOM Eternal" have multiple barrels, so they aren't chain guns, but rotary cannons, right? But hang on, they're cycled with a chain drive by an external power source (admittedly strapped to the weapon), not through sprockets and cams like rotary cannons, so that would make them chain guns, wouldn't it? Rather confusing, isn't it? To me, the weapons in the two newer games are definitely chain guns, despite having more than one barrel. The "chaingun" in the first two games is definitely a Minigun, though, so not a chain gun.

[@Nordern]

I think probably one of the best depictions of a "minigun" would be in ArmA3, it's absolutely terrifying, though, maybe a bit too accurate?

[@TheGamingTree]

To be fair Arma is suppose to be a Sim so its great it is

[@MrChronified]

The irony, I have found any vic mounted 50 cal to perform far better than a minigun in arma...the CUPS man portable minigun is pretty useless...lol

[@Gottaculat]

I love in The Matrix minigun scene, a keen eye will notice the mangled case necks, indicating they were crimped shut, and were thus blanks. I see this a lot in movies and TV shows when they do slow-mo close-ups. I guess they figure most people won't know the difference.

[@joegassmann2361]

And they are right :) never heard anyone mention this, so i guess its not common knowledge. It just kinda looks cool

[@hanzzel6086]

@Joe Gassmann I am no gun nut, but I spotted that something was wrong with those casings the moment they came on screen. Took me a couple of re-watchs to realize exactly what it was though.

[@fredbyoutubing]

I don't know if iconic enough for a video. But the P90 has been the go to sci-fi weapon for decades. It is both weird enough to look futuristic but is instantly recognizable since it has been used countless times.

[@nade7242]

it's funny because not many people actually use it and iirc more have been purchased by civilians/movies than militaries

[@md_vandenberg]

@@spartanretro "Slanderous"? Easy there, you might hurt yourself. You might as well say that Ian "Gun Jesus" McCollum is ripping off Ahoy. People are allowed to talk about the same topic.

[@alexv6324]

@@nade7242 lol I bought the U.S. civilian legal version, the PS90 last year. It's cool, but yeah considering that it's not fully automatic and the round isn't really that impressive and not exactly cheap, it's more of just a novelty, then something that would be my go to in the zombie apocalypse.

[@nade7242]

@@alexv6324 how does it handle? I've honestly never heard anything good about the gun or round from people who own it

[@alexv6324]

@@nade7242 I mean the round isn't that powerful so it's easy to control. Ergonomically speaking, while it's surprising comfortable to hold for how small it is, my chief complaint is that the iron sights are abysmal and if you mount an optic, it sits really high up so you have to kind of lift your head to actually look through it. There's a company that makes aftermarket optics mounts that replaces the rail that comes stock with it, so I may try to get one eventually.

[@rameygardner4782]

The camera angles are incredible. Nice cinematography.

[@sid5060]

I have shot the mk 44 off the same rcb In bf4 and the one thing they definitely don't get correct is the entire boat will shift when you shoot that thing.

[@patricks.7951]

One thing BF4 does get right is, the feeling of shooting big guns. They did a good job making it feel like your f$&king stuff up when you shoot, even if the damage done to players doesn’t really reflect it. I feel like the king of the world with the m134 on the Huey (until i hit a player ten times and they aren’t dead yet lol)

[@TugaAvenger]

Just shoot the other one at the same time! :P

[@urlocalsam]

These are the videos i watch when im bored at 1 am, just love the history and commentary

[@KasumiRINA]

@@SimuLord is your head bald? Guns, cats and baldness is the trio of movie villainy.

[@simonhoney2050]

That was sort of why I liked that scene in Terminator: you're reminded that he's a not a man. He picks up a minigun and he's effectively a mechanical turret mount. Predator is just larks, though. I love how these ultimate tough guy marines just immediately fire all their rounds into the jungle at the first sign of trouble.

[@winston8762]

"He truly thought it would end up shortening war, or perhaps even eliminating it"..." Well yes, it DID shorten a war whenever it's used... just not the way he thought it would

[@bumly7149]

Fast forward to today, and we've got nearly 5000 nuclear warheads. We could destroy every city in the world and still have around 1500 warheads left over.

[@Justforvisit]

@@bumly7149 "Every city in the world" And every landscape. And every cave system. Heck, if the ocean would be solid we could nuke away that one too. Just too shorten it: We are capable of blowing up several Earths

[@gsxrjeff]

@@Justforvisit yep very sad

[@oscarshen6855]

Believe it or not more powerful weapons do discourage war. In medieval era the conciquance of war is not that bad so there are almost always wars. After WW2 people realize that with modern weapons the concequance of war is much more devatating, to the point that there will be no winners. Now at least the most powerful contries won't go to war with each other anymore.

[@bumly7149]

@@oscarshen6855 A valid point. Makes me think about why countries haven't used Nukes as a declaration of war- there truly are no winners if too many are detonated

[@johnnaybor9367]

one of the main things i always notice about minigun in games and movies is they usually make it shoot so slow in comparison to the real system.

[@hellbreaksloose5536]

The Microgun is more realistically for a person to use since its in 5.56 but its still heavy

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

And the recoil can make you spin around too

[@renevil2105]

It only weigh 16 pounds. Then just add the weight for ammo. Get used to power lifting.

[@gooberone]

@@renevil2105 I can lift 25 pound weights one in each hand easy peasy. A 9 pound airsoft M4 is surprisingly heavy, despite being 9 pounds. Try carrying a 16 pound microgun with over 200 rounds of ammunition, have fun with that

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

Even with the short barrel clusters which should reduce recoil and the spinning mass you still have to wrestle quit a bit with the thing. (Also goodbye eyes and ears. 5.56 is already infamous enough for being a flashbang when shot out of a short barrel, nevermind firing essentially 50 flashbangs per second)

[@renevil2105]

@@gooberone doesn't sound hard, i already pick weights over 60 pounds each hand.

[@mightbeapersonmaybe8379]

I remember actually learning about how impossible the movie trope is from a superhero story called worm (by wildbos). In the middlish part of the web serial a villain called the butcher shows up one handing it and it is entirely a powerplay on the butchers part to show off that she can wield this thing.

[@pain6874]

I almost feel sad titanfall 2 didn’t get mentioned here, a massive ogre titan could most definitely carry a minigun, albeit one that puts even the Vulcan to shame

[@AE-ki3rw]

Legion main?

[@Flour-4]

@@AE-ki3rw GUN!!!

[@point0947]

legion gaming

[@RongSpelingz]

TABG gets this right in an exaggerated way, actually. Firing this thing at all will send you flying either high into the air or across the map, it’s more useful as a mode of transportation rather than a weapon.

[@mauroghen]

it seems everyone forgot about FPSRUSSIA actually shooting a minigun from the hip, the recoil arguement is invalid when the rate of fire is so high it becomes a constant force that is easy to handle, like a fireman's hose.

[@nickizanewb8433]

Yeah actually you shouldn't do that in real life

[@BDNeon]

I'm surprised no mention of the XM214 microgun, a 5.56x45mm experimental variant of the classic M134 minigun. Less weight, less recoil, still a bulky proposition to lug around, but I think that might actually have been feasible to use in the hollywood style since it weighed less, fired a lighter round with a lot less recoil, and I'm sure even the batteries could be lightened substantially with modern battery technology. I mean when everyone talks about the weight of the system including batteries, they're going off those ancient 60s-era batteries that I'm sure could be a tenth of the weight and size with the same capacity with todays tech...

[@coolsenjoyer]

It's kinda funny that Fallout, one of the silliest sci-fi universes, has one of the most feasible depictions of handheld miniguns because they fire a 5mm round and have plenty miniaturized power sources available, plus they are most often used by either superhuman mutants or people wearing power armor.

[@ZEPR0FESS0RR]

My thoughts exactly good sir

[@stefanmurillo8959]

beware " the average recoil force of the XM-214 was about 45 kg / 99 lbs, with peak recoil being closer to 100 kg / 220 lbs". Even if you've a very athletic body, the recoil let you hit everything but the target

[@bramvanduijn8086]

You've made me curious if it is possible to make a 5.7 version of the minigun.

[@coolsenjoyer]

@@bramvanduijn8086 I don't see why not, the size or power of the cartridge shouldnt have any bearing on the working mechanism of such guns since its electrocally driven.

[@Ididitlikethis2079]

*Some people think they can outsmart me, but I have yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet.* *-Heavy Weapons Guy*

[@yamasguidetoeverything]

"The minigun is the most misdepicted military equipment in film industry" Gambeson armor: Am I a joke to you?

[@RhodokTribesman]

Or the fact that everyone in a battle is using swords instead of spears or polearms for some reason

[@reshpeck]

Greetings, I'm Shad

[@LoneWolfZ]

If the things werwe depicted realistically in games, they would just be too powerful. They aren't called the lead laser for nothing. Great job on the video. It was great seeing someone from the Royal Armory who could bring both sides of the aisle together with a single viewpoint.

[@lyokianhitchhiker]

My ex calls them the firearm version of a chainsaw.

[@grahamrumbelow5778]

Although they’re DC now, the RAF used to use the older AC variants of M134D on Chinook which ran off the aircraft power. Another issue with hip firing is the gyroscopic precession. The rapidly spinning mass means that even on a pintle mount it will initially kick off target. Hand held it'd probably take you for a trip if you tried moving it!

[@SpareSomeChange8080]

They should make it dual rotors then! Another one spinning the opposite direction to cancel out the gyroscopic effect. That'd be fun

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

Gas-operated minigun and 5.56 microgun prototypes during the Vietnam era are real-world examples of weapons that had to ‘spin-up’ their fire rate once firing began. Electrically-driven systems stuck around because they are faster, more consistent, and reliable.

[@daffyduck9562]

A thing thats over looked as well is being misfire tolerant, if the round does go, it ill be cycled out anyway

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

@@daffyduck9562 The only case that comes to mind of electrically driven miniguns being a failure point was during Operation Anaconda (Battle of Takur Ghar) where both Chinook miniguns were disabled the moment it was engaged because an RPG took out the electrical system. Now that I think about it this goes full circle back to video games because Medal of Honor 2010 had a mission based on that battle, and the player got to use a minigun once the second helicopter went down. I recall its fire rate and sfx was accurate but the overheating effect was greatly exaggerated with red-hot barrels.

[@troyjardine5850]

7:23 or to put it another way, "it costs $450,000 to fire this weapon, for twelve seconds."

[@Justforvisit]

US Military: "So, 0,0000000000001 % of our government fundings? NOICE!"

[@sgtmonkeypirate]

The 20mm version. Not the 5.56 or 7.62 versions.

[@klausstock8020]

@@sgtmonkeypirate They are still friggin' expensive to operate. One guy once built a triple minigun (three miniguns on one mount), and it cost several $1000s for just a short demo. And the life of a 12 year old girl, who was allowed to fire the triple gun but got killed because she couldn't handle the recoil - despite the gun being mounted.

[@sgtmonkeypirate]

@@klausstock8020 probably couldn’t handle 3 frickin miniguns on one mount. Sad. Happens all the time when inexperienced people go to gun ranges and shoot UZIs.

[@Bitfire31337]

"She weighs one hundred fifty kilograms and fires two hundred dollar custom tool cartridges at ten thousand rounds per minute."

[@no_one_to_see]

"I am heavy weapons guy... and this, *(simultaneously rubbing the barrel)* is my weapon

[@neilmcdonnell2964]

I think Jonathan Ferguson should be titled national treasure himself. Love watching him explain firearms and their respective histories

[@240pixel]

I hate how many games reduces the rate of fire to make it more balanced. Where the barrels are barely rotating.

[@kabardino1337]

You can change the fire speed of a minigun, irl, afaik

[@AnD1262]

Well, you get to a point where a side-mounted gun for a helicopter should do the same amount of damage per shot as a DMR in the same game just at 2000 RPM and having about the same amount of accuracy of at least a hip-fired SMG.

[@240pixel]

@@kabardino1337 2,000 to 6,000 RPM not 100 RPM like some games do.

[@icannon6611]

@@AnD1262 and it should be at least that, if not more. They're not at all inaccurate guns

[@averytucker790]

Fun fact: the spinning barrel guns you see in games/TV/movies have a proper term name. A lot of the "mini-guns" you see are called "Rotary cannons". This pretty much means any gun with spinning barrels like the classic Gatling gun.

[@SHVRWK]

They addressed that in the video.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

@@SHVRWK Did they specifically mention rotary? I must have missed that bit.

[@zbyszanna]

Every time I see a game feature a minigun and it shoots slower that 30 bullets a second, I feel irritated. The only reason to have such a cumbersome device is to be able to put immense amount of lead on target in a short amount of time. If your minigun doesn't do this, don't put it into the game and don't water it down.

[@kabardino1337]

If your minigun doesn't do that then just use a regular m60 or whatever

[@justiciar1964]

Never limit your absurdity once you've already resorted to it.

[@keithw4920]

Server pings cant keep up.

[@themaniacalcashew5466]

If they just made it a laser they would be closer to reality than they currently are

[@reshpeck]

@@justiciar1964 Words to live by!

[@Gottaculat]

I would often refer to the miniguns in Battlefield games as "the Marshmallow Gun," because they made the per-shot damage so low, it's like spitting cocoa marshmallows at them. Makes it near useless.

[@theguywiththeoldds3896]

4:40 "so you're telling me general electric, who makes washing machines made this gun? One spins to remove stains one spins to remove larger stains, its not that difficult."

[@TechPriest.]

Someone finally did it. Someone is finally educating the masses on this huge pet peeve I've had my entire life. Solid video

[@theodorek2673]

10:31 i dont think you can get away with showing a space marine in terminator armor using a Assault Cannon and saying its a minigun. that is a 2.8 meter superhuman in a walking tank using a gun that has more punch then any minigun in the world will ever have

[@kabardino1337]

Then it's a minigun in the same sense you can call a gau-8 a minigun 🤔

[@FirstCitizenXIV]

The mini guns strapped on ThunderBolt airplanes are certainly more powerful than even a Terminator manned assault cannon.

[@CorvusCorone68]

@@FirstCitizenXIV those aren't miniguns tho, they're their full-size older version

[@basedeltazero714]

@@CorvusCorone68 So, the ones Terminators carry are a miniature version... (Nevermind they have the exact same stats)

[@capras12]

Why does no one ever mention the sound design? one of the things that upsets me most is when they make it sound like a slow firing machine gun rather than the brrt it really is like.

[@decentRL]

A-10 warthog: why are my brothers wingless?

[@BaronVonQuiply]

When you take the recoil into account, a handheld Minigun actually a very powerful form of transportation.

[@NoName-ik2du]

That's how the minigun is in _Stick Fight: The Game._ It's basically impossible to use as a weapon, but the huge amount of recoil allows you to effectively use it as a jetpack. For added silliness, there's also a version that shoots snakes instead of bullets, so you can blast off into the air whilst simultaneously covering the entire stage in snakes that will attack all the other players.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

@@NoName-ik2du In Grand Theft Auto III I used to turn on the moon gravity cheat and then hop in a tank and use the gun to fly around the map.

[@drakewingcopperheart2533]

@@NoName-ik2du TABG as well, think there's a few more I'm forgetting about

[@sporperino]

@@drakewingcopperheart2533 the jetpack joyride uses a mini for transport

[@IWADsarecool]

XD

[@drakko26]

There are a few cases where I believe it reasonable for the main character to be able to successfully wield a minigun. Some of these cases are: the T-800 Terminator, Doom Guy - because he's the doom guy, a power armored soldier in the FO franchise(especially as depicted in FO4, with the "nuclear" battery that would also power the weapon), an Astartes because...well...space marine yo, maybe Master Chief etc...

[@egyeneskifli7808]

The M61 is almost every time driven by hydraulic motors. Yes, two of them. If only one is active, then the rate of fire is "only" 4000 RPM. And the barrel assemby practically never rotating constantly, not even on the Minigun. There is a spin-up time, always. The biggest advancement in the M61A2 (used in the Raptor and Super Hornet) was the reduction of the spin-up time to the half, thanks to the weight reduction of the rotating assembly. And there is a version that is fully automatic, gas operated, called GAU-4. Tipically this is the version mounted in gunpods, like the SUU-23/A you walked by a few times in the video. There was an electric driven gun pod (SUU-16/A), but the ram air turbine caused too much drag, it was a dead end. (And of course there is the halved version, the M197 for the AH-1 Cobra family, and other attack helicopters. That is electric driven.) As for the Minigun: there is a spin-up time too. Still the barrel assembly practically never spinning constantly. Why should you waste the capacity of the battery pack for idle nothing? (The gas operated M61 has significantly higher spin-up time, compared to the hydrolic driven.)

[@TheBritishWolf483]

thats a lot to take in

[@DavidLanin]

During my time in army I served as a gunner of Vulcan AA gun and become very familiar with it. There is no spin-up or spin-down on the weapon since as long as there is bullets, spinning of the barrel will use it. Either shooting or if you disconnect power to firing pin just spiting ammo whole out of ejection port.

[@dsm3759703]

i assume you mean spin up to maximum fire rate. there is no delay from trigger press to first round fired, but just like anything with mass....acceleration has to take place. But it's split seconds.

[@donlesley1873]

They can’t actually make the mini gun as effective in games because then it would be absolutely a god tier advantage

[@Clandestinemonkey]

Yeah! Watching this video I was imagining a guy in Tarkov holding one but being unable to move because 200kg and then when you actually engage a guy you use up all of your ammo in 12 seconds

[@autonomous8108]

Idc how unrealistic it is in a video game. I know it's not realistic, but when you're walking around with a mini gun, you just feel like the ultimate unstoppable badass lol

[@bonkregulator5237]

JUGGERNAUT!

[@usamong1129]

when you are capable of walking half a mile with it, you *are* an unstoppable badass, might as well use sword an shield and charge at the enemy!

[@MyNameIsNotBob_1121]

AHHAHAHAHA! I AM BOOLETPROOF!

[@petruswienenfilho945]

So the only one that got the gun right was what we least expect... Jetpack Joyride

[@YonatanZunger]

This is great! I'd love to see episodes about the various things that use .50BMG (rifles and the M2 alike), the Mohsin & Nagant, and the bizarre ways people imagine SMGs work. But really, all of this content is great!

[@welkijken]

I am often annoyed about how slow the rate of fire is on many mini-guns in games and movies. Often we are still able to hear individual shots and such. Takes away from it's true awesomeness.

[@MozzaBurger88]

Right ? I want the pure awesomeness of BRRRRRRRRT. I want to feel like I'm throwing an unstoppable curtain of bullets towards the targets. Even if it's for a short few seconds.

[@GenJuhru]

The Warthog's song of freedom

[@krissvector9079]

I think battlefield is the only media ive consumed with a good minigun sound. It's got a pretty decent BRRRRRRRRRRRRT

[@albdamned577]

The only reason why it worked in terminator was because it was a death robot carrying it. Every other time it’s always weird

[@aerowolfarms5507]

one note I must make is that the m61a1 20mm Vulcan cannon is actually hydraulically driven, not electrically as the electric motors would overheat from driving such a large mass and ammunition feed system

[@TheFish711]

“I am heavy weapons guy… and this… is my weapon”

[@harveyhall2350]

In the Doom series, more specifically 2016 and Eternal, the 'Chain Gun' is more realistic than other games with Carried Miniguns due to the immense strength of the Slayer himself.

[@kabardino1337]

Extra funny how a "chaingun" is a WHOLE other type of weapon

[@xXVBRUTALVXx]

Plus didn't if fire like some kind of energy bolts so no recoil of actual bullets

[@ElliFong]

True, the Slayer is literally a godlike being

[@justiciar1964]

Like Super Man, he can lift and run faster than an olympic athlete with whatever the writers need him to.

[@thechosenjuan8776]

tbh it makes it worse for me, if a guy can carry a minigun + ammo and a whole arsenal of other weapons with him on his back, he'd be so strong that he wouldnt even need weapons at all

[@illagevidiot8254]

There is a hand held version now. The XM556. It's more for the meme of it, but there are videos of it being shot by hand.

[@finscreenname]

The Puckel Gun got so much right though. It was basically a revolver with shell cartages. It was so close to a breach loaded cannon it was years ahead of its time.

[@IIGrayfoxII]

7:19 To keep it firing for 60 seconds it will cost you 2 million dollars. This is based off it costing $400,000 to fire it for 12 seconds.

[@Keyboard_Thoughts]

Funny thing that in such game series like EDF Gatling gun is actually quite realistically depicted.

[@xirensixseo]

i remember getting disappointed by the depiction in jurassic park(one of the new ones) and in ghost recon wildlands. in Jurassic park, they used the sound effect of something like an M60, and i was sad cuz brrrt would be so much cooler. in ghost recon, the sound is there, yes, but the damage is so little, i might as well use my sidearm

[@kabardino1337]

Wildlands it's terrible, has the damage of a pistol and the accuracy is all over the place

[@anonfaceless6088]

Got to say I thoroughly enjoy this series. I would love a episode on the SA80A1. Oh yes please. Jonathan would love it too. Lol

[@xSkysilver]

It's not about depiction or getting it right, it's about how fun they can make it, which might I add must be very:)

[@0lionheart]

Yeah, that was the point they made in the video.

[@Insidious-l8z]

I just noticed... At 09:23 the "casings" falling down, still has the bullet in them. No wonder Neo missed everything.

[@ChaotiX1]

I'd like to see rocket launchers, cause it always seems like the shells travel way too slow in video games

[@DeadPixel1105]

Yes, I've talked about this with friends who never served in the military and haven't watched much actual combat footage. I explain to them that the sort of scenes that are common in action movies (like dodging a rocket or veering out of the way real quick, or like that scene in Tropic Thunder where an enemy fires an RPG and one character has time to actual wind up and throw something at the rocket) are completely unrealistic. I explain to them that bullets *do* travel faster than rockets or missiles, but rockets/missiles are still so fast that your chances of avoiding the hit compared to a bullet is no different. In real combat footage, when someone shoots a rocket at a vehicle or building that is long range, the delay between the *bang* of the weapon firing and the *bang* of the rocket striking the target is like a fraction of a second. Practically no delay at all. The rocket/missile travels the long distance and hits the target pretty much as fast as a bullet.

[@KasumiRINA]

They have too! See any video of a Stugna, Javelin or even shorter-range NLAW. You see the rockets go for KILOMETERS. Ingame your vision range is less than 200M, the Jav won't even fire so close!

[@0lionheart]

The Fallout 3 / Fallout NV minigun I always felt was disappointing; huge spread, slow fire rate, and tracers that make it feel like you're firing two rounds a second. I always homebrew mod it when I replay those games

[@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz]

And in 5mm. I just end up using 5mm as form of currency in the games.

[@romaliop]

The Fallout 4 one is even worse. You use it once in the early game set-piece against a deathclaw and like 5 hours later (~10% into the playthrough) it's a worthless piece of junk compared to basically anything else.

[@kabardino1337]

In GTA IV i always modded the weapon's stats myself with notepad++, i guess you do the same with fallout. For me I wanted a gun for dramatic shots during director mode, so I downloaded a Tommy gun skin for the AK, gave it 600 ammo, and 0.20 (like 3-4 hits to take 1 hp) damage. So I could shoot up a guy for a whole minute to look dramatic on the camera.

[@backgroundcharacter1071]

Yeah I could only bring myself to use the unique variants in each game

[@DavidCowie2022]

@@romaliop I give them to my settlers for defending settlements against Raiders.

[@DanielSultana]

7:00 terminator isn't human, so quite acceptable to wield a minigun

[@nolesy34]

Correct he is a cybergenetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton

[@killersushi99]

*At **4:45** Wait.....Wait.....Wait.....100 Rounds per second? Um....What?*

[@TheSpeep]

4:16 He wasnt entirely wrong about that tbh, he just vastly underestimated the scale of destruction a weapon needs to be capable of for it to actively discourage war...

[@Zakaker]

3:53 "So how is this lethal weapon of unprecedented power going to stop soldiers from dying on a god-forsaken battlefield exactly?" "Well, they can't die if they're already dead"

[@sapphyrus]

This was a great video summarizing my favorite weapon. In games, not just the spin up but also the very fast heating of the barrels infuriates me when the whole purpose of having multiple barrels is to stay cool unlike a single barrel machine gun!

[@stormgear896]

They forgot to mention the airplane that you can attach to the minigun.

[@samraam6789]

If it was on a plane it wouldn’t be the minigun but the M61 Vulcan Cannon what the mini gun is based off, it fires 20mm shells instead of 7.62mm rounds

[@FlyboyHelosim]

@@samraam6789 The M134 Minigun can also be mounted to planes.

[@smorrow]

@@samraam6789 He was more likely referring to the GAU-8

[@wrath908]

I'm actually surprised you acknowledged the fact that the m134 is called a 'minigun' because of the fact that it's derived from the M61 Vulcan. Most of the time when you see gamers mention the fact they have a minigun, all they do is make joke about it not being 'mini or openly wonder why it's called a minigun but then don't bother with even a 5 second google search to answer the question.

[@Doggbizkit4ever]

4:01 that's the metal slug 2 camel irl! Merry Christmas y'all!

[@MRptwrench]

Do you think people who witnessed the first displays of this new weapon felt anything like those who witnessed Trinity, the first atomic detonation? "A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent" at Trinity. But enter the Gatling and in an era where Spencer or Sharp carbines and the rare and not yet dependable Mannlicher semi-auto models were high volume of fire weapons...I mean, c'mon man. It had to be mind blowing. Imagine being there in the early/mid-1860s during a one of the larger demonstrations of Gatling's gun (or Maxim's version 20 yrs later) and witnessing the shock and horror that field grade officers, generals, and high level politicians (with a sprinkle of citizens w/ investment capital) felt as the weapon fired at rates that seemed inconceivable. Not just a lot of large rifles firing in succession, but the rhythmic percussive blast of each discharge along with the sounds of the rounds hitting some target or berm.

[@werepyrex6640]

It's an older video but if anyone else has been brought here by the algorithm, let me also say this: video games also tend to get the rate of fire wrong. This is probably due to engine limitations, though, as most automatic firearms in games don't replicate the cycling rate of their real-world counterparts. It was especially noticeable in older shooters, however, and nowadays technology allows for higher rates of fire to be shown in games. At least, that's what it looks like to me. I'm no expert.

[@crasssy1]

Also there is a soviet gun ГШ-6-30, which also has rotating barrels, and similar rate of fire, but it's 30 mm, and the rotation in ГШ-6-30 is powered by powder gases, rather than an electric motor.

[@ScantilyCladPlatypus]

the most I've ever felt like a minigun was truly dangerous in a video game was on the Blackhawks of operation flashpoint dragon rising. it would just pump an area full of led

[@nicolasn6872]

For the Vulcan aircraft gun (20 mm rounds), the recoil is so huge that only small bursts at the time are fired (~150 rounds). Otherwise the decrease of speed could stall the plane if it flies close to the stalling speed ! (I only got this info for the F/A 18)

[@basedeltazero714]

It's less that the decrease of speed could stall the plane (though it _could_ in certain circumstances), and more that if you're firing more than 150 rounds, your target is already out of the engagement zone. You only have something like 600 rounds (a little less actually) in the F/A-18, for example. In a gunfight in modern fighter jets, you will typically* only have a very brief window of opportunity to hit as your target crosses your sights (even with radar-linked guns), the vulcan cannon was developed in order to have as many rounds in that moment as possible. *: Well, typically, you won't get in a gunfight in modern fighter jets, but if you _do_

[@ToastyClone]

Fun fact: in the US small caliber gatling gun are legal for home defence as it is technically a a handle crank so it depends on how fast you go

[@RichardGQue]

I thought most of us already knew this, and that many of these examples are meant to depict inhuman strength. like, The Master Chief, an augmented human in Mjolnir armor, is different from regular humans in that he can rip the massive repeating weapons off its stand and actually lug it around. terminator shows that he's a machine. Doom guy is some kind of fictional hulking super-soldier that has realistic strong men cowing in fear. The iron patriot is wearing a suit of armor capable of lifting a tank. I always thought the trope is that we know we can't handhold a minigun so you know something is superhuman if they can.

[@LoydRamey4]

There is a company that actually makes a handheld mini-gun... And it's actually small... But it has so much recoil you have to burst fire otherwise you'll almost start flying.

[@crusher9z9]

Jetpack joyride real.

[@gusty7153]

i think the terminator should at least be considered a pass since it's suppose to be a robot and not a human holding the minigun

[@gwouru]

Glad you included WHY it's called the MINI gun.... because the full sized version is fricken HUGE!

[@wpjohn91]

The puckle gun was ahead of its time. Great stuff

[@thomaskarnick9539]

"Impractical puckle gun"? Sure it's slow by today's standards but those things were devastating to pirates and gave an unprecedented rate of fire for the age. I'd way rather have one of those than a traditional cannon!

[@fredrikhelland8194]

I thought they only made, like, two of those, and that they ended up not being used much. A 19th century meme, if you will.

[@JCRF]

I've never played a game that accurately represents both the power of the 7.62 round and the actual rate of fire. Some games have come sorta close with one or the other, but not for both. Usually they nerf the power, nerf the rate of fire, most of the time it's usually both. TBH video games should not include a minigun unless it will try to be accurate, better to just use another machinegun with a high ROF like an MG3

[@bonkregulator5237]

Arnold(terminator) and Doomslayer is understandable since they're killing machine💀💀

[@Xiiki]

Americans after finding out the first person to make a “minigun” type of weapon was British:

[@sparkafie]

My favourite “ Mimi gun” is on the Fair child republic A-10 thunder bolt 2, all you hear is brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt

[@Z.O.M.G]

thats a cannon, but ok

[@ChenAnPin]

Interesting that the minigun from L4D wasn't mentioned or shown, that thing had the similarly mentioned gamified "spool/spin up" added to it in order to balance its firepower. What's funnier are the depictions of the minigun firing from all six cylinders at once.

[@thorgeirnable]

Other than overheating, the minigun in battlefield is good on fire rate and sound imo

[@kevinizatt4358]

Saw the original gatling patent model, hand made of wood, on my honeymoon. It was on loan to the Buffalo Bill museum in Cody WY.

[@brandonwright2363]

Fallout 3 be like Uses 200 rounds of 5mm with mini gun. Raider: that tickles bro stop

[@wazopaio]

"Men of peace create engines of war"

[@nolesy34]

Men of war create.....