How good is FRONTRUNNING after Wave 6? | Mario Kart 8 Deluxe

Bagging got nerfed in Wave 6! Is frontrunning better now? How does it compare to bagging?
How to get Better at Mario Kart: • FULL Beginner Guide | ...
The final wave of the booster course pass just released, with new tracks, new shortcuts, and new characters. This is my first time using Funky Kong, Diddy Kong, Pauline, and Peachette online in worldwides. Playing on the courses Tour Rome Avanti, GCN DK Mountain, Wii Daisy Circuit, Piranha Plant Cove, Tour Madrid Drive, 3DS Rosalina's Ice World, SNES Bowser's Castle 3, and Wii Rainbow Road.
Bagging: waiting near last place for good items (bullet bill, shock/lightning, star, golden mushroom, mushrooms) and using them to make a comeback. This lets you get to 10 coins and stay away from attack items, and you can potentially dodge the shock or do item smuggling.
Running: actively trying to go forward and get to 1st place

[@DanielDeLeon69]

Hey Shortcat Were You Always a fan of Bagging when you first started playing Mario Kart or you just like to frontrun the tracks as you play?

[@Shortcat321]

I hated bagging with a passion. I would frontrun the whole race and then get destroyed (on some tracks). Then i started paying attention. The person who could beat me in frontrunning on hyrule circuit was the same person who bagged and got 1st on cheese land. Once i realized it wasnt actually luck, i tried it out. I was SO BAD at bagging, literally couldnt get better than 5th. The more i learned about it, the more i realized i just didnt like it because i didnt understand it. I thought it was different people getting lucky each time, but it was actually the same skilled players beating me with multiple strategies.

[@rikibdgd4764]

@@Shortcat321wow u used to be a twitter user...

[@Shortcat321]

Nah its one thing to hate the viability of bagging, we've all been there. Its another thing to bully others for bagging. But using twitter??? I could never 💀💀

[@mahmudiqbal9089]

@@Shortcat321I don’t eant to ruin ur disguise but HELLO J PERM U TAUGHT ME HOW TO CUBE THXXXXX

[@BurningSparks]

I find Bagging really fun honestly. It's just fun getting decent items rather than coins

[@ueinao12]

i just frontran to the comment section

[@aleksandr4250]

Same!

[@MaxymilianGaming]

Me too

[@XParasiteOctoling]

BLUE SHELL

[@JustStayGingerBoi]

Who doesnt

[@austinrollins6819]

the only time when a "first" is funny

[@nuggs4snuggs516]

I like how Nintendo handled the bagging nerf. Rear position comeback play still seems viable, but the most "degenerate" or "unintended" aspects, repeatedly driving into boxes cycling items, has been removed. Personally I think it makes bagging a little more exciting, because there's that extra bit of pressure to keep moving and make your comeback.

[@Shortcat321]

Yeah i agree. At first i felt like its a bad bagging nerf because bagging still works just fine. But now i appreciate that its just a way to make bagging and competitive play look less degenerate. Love or hate bagging, this is a good change

[@maildaemon]

@@Shortcat321 Actually, this is a good way of looking at it - it changes how bagging is perceived, and affects the game's public perception, which you said is a real sticking point you have with bagging's presence in MK8DX.

[@klop4228]

That said, I have had a couple times where I genuinely just drove badly and stopped before items, or where I got hit by lightning just after a set (both in positions near the back) and the nerf now makes getting reasonable items impossible in those cases. Sure, they're edge cases, but both happened to me fairly naturally.

[@shoto5892]

​@@Shortcat321Also I think this nerf actually makes itel strategy even more important with bagging. This might not make a difference for those that are really good at bagging, but I think it prevents people from just bagging without putting any thought in it. Because before the nerf if you got an item that you didnt like you could just throw it away and drive into the item set again. That way you had to way less careful with item usage, while now if you use an item to early instead of holding it for shortcuts for instace increases the danger of getting a bad item without being able to rectofy the situation by just cycling through items at an item set. Deciding when to chain, use and hold has become way more important which I like a lot because to me that is what makes bagging interesting in terms of game mechanics.

[@webbowser8834]

@@klop4228 I mean, that just sounds like an exciting new way to get karted. Yeah it sucks when you're the one getting karted, but it's also kinda what separates Mario Kart from other racing games like F-Zero.

[@timothyhang2306]

Honestly, I believe that Nintendo's solution to bagging is actually pretty elegant. I think most people dislike bagging because seeing people stop in the middle of races and wait at item sets isn't exactly their idea of a racing game. However, "bagging" where you take worse lines in order to pick up more coins or take alternate paths that are slower but have coins or items while still moving forward on the track is perfectly fine, since you're still going forwards at the very least. In fact, I'm not completely sure yet, but I feel like this change could make a lot of the "useless" alternate paths (like the underwater section on daisy cruiser) a far more appealing choice which would be cool to see. You could drop to a lower position while remaining safe and farming coins, while keeping the most exciting part of bagging where you make the comeback intact.

[@Chicky_nug]

They could have also taken away the distance base item for 1st through 4th and 9th through 12th so you always try to stay in the middle or change the percentage and the way the coin works and make it way more rare because it’s useless

[@Checkerchamp]

14:20 I think nerfing bagging deliberately without affecting those that are genuinely struggling in a race, as Nintendo seemed to aim for, was the right move. It discourages playing poorly on purpose but still gives a chance for people that are worse/unlucky

[@gmdrye755]

Shortcat has made me return to mario kart after 4 years and the past few months have been so fun!

[@Kakkemans]

Yea sure buddy

[@Kakkemans]

You maybe arent lying but i aint buyin it

[@Bryan-yf5yq]

Glad to hear you’re having fun!

[@gmdrye755]

⁠@@Kakkemansim not lying but believe what you want to believe

[@gmdrye755]

@@Bryan-yf5yqthanks

[@karanaima]

They made nerfing bagging about making people move forward and actually try to race, not about removing the possibility of using good items at the back to get to the front, and I think that's perfect

[@RedMango.]

9:17 diddybuggy is undoubtedly an awesome name for that combo

[@h3r01cviii5]

12:00 - 12:35 let's just say on a bike, peachettes hitbox gets nerfed. Edit: nerfed meaning it’s easier to get hit

[@Black-nf3tx]

Its pretty evident that she gets a buff on bikes and atvs. Pretty big actually 🤤

[@unbound195]

Nah I think her hitbox on a bike should be twice as big, if you know what I mean

[@imagebear8916]

@@unbound195 but that's just what they're saying

[@unbound195]

@@imagebear8916 I added more, and let me just say she should be Bowser heavy. 4.7

[@bingbongjoel6581]

hm. are you talking about her ahh?

[@jamiereeve3136]

I think Nintendo handled bagging pretty well. Focusing on stopping and reversing. Think it getting tweaked for single or double item boxes pulls

[@Magnemite_]

something i feel like no one talks about is how much the idea of "driving badly on purpose" actually changed with the optics vs reality. stopping at an item set is definitely "driving badly on purpose" and looks horrible to the average person, but on the other hand you're still trying to take good lines when you actually are driving and the bagging part is more like a pause in your "normal" driving, but now that you can't bag that way it seems like the ideal way to stay in the back of the pack when bagging is just taking worse lines on purpose, which is just as much "driving badly on purpose" if not moreso than stopping at item sets. whether the improvement in optics is a big enough to outweigh that depends on your viewpoint i guess. what i really wish they did was make being in the middle of the pack less of a death sentence, that way you'd be much less incentivized to bag every time you got hit and the binary of bagging and frontrunning was less prominent in favor of just playing the game "normally". often in worldwides i get in rooms where a few of the players in the room are enough better than me that i can't really frontrun reasonably, but because being in the middle is so terrible it feels like i'm forced to bag if i want to get a decent position. the middle of the pack attack items in this game are just way too hard to avoid and punishing to get hit by and i'm pretty bummed that they didn't do a single thing to fix that with all of their balance changes.

[@Shortcat321]

Yeah id love for a nerf to attack items, or a decrease in probability. I wonder if they didnt want to affect the normal gameplay too much.

[@Magnemite_]

@@Shortcat321 i think they just want mario kart to be really chaotic, and that certainly accomplishes that. that race in the other video where you dodged an entire fire flower just to get hit anyway really shows how impossible it is to avoid getting hit in the middle of the pack. maybe making it so getting hit by certain items only makes you lose one coin, or not completely lose all of your speed like with bananas in double dash would be ways they could fix it, but i'm not sure they even know it's a problem, let alone want to fix it

[@maildaemon]

@@Magnemite_ I've thought about something similar, having spin-out items (except for shock perhaps) not cause you to drop coins. I think your idea of losing 1 coin is better though

[@nyukjustacommenter857]

Wait when you put bagging like that it sounds like basically Mario Kart 7 Bagging ...hey this is basically Mario Kart 7 Bagging

[@josiahlehner9546]

"spoilers for Infinity War" was legitimately the funniest thing edit ever

[@BordakFamily]

I didn't get it

[@TheFriedFishBoi]

Hi Shortcat! I’ve been enjoying your content for a while now and I would really look forward to a video where you rank all the tracks. It would be fun to see your point of view about what tracks are the most fun, best looks and have the most fun strats. Either way, I wish you the best of luck!

[@onebear6504]

Great idea, that'd be awesome to see!

[@Shortcat321]

Ive been planning on this! I still need to get to know the wave 6 tracks better, and lose the "new track" bias before ranking them.

[@romeogagliotti7918]

​@@Shortcat321Yessss!!!! I'm very looking forward to that holy

[@yamom6996]

​@@Shortcat321i love how you respond to your comments man. appreciate u for the good content

[@koelee]

"Saying that you're just bagging or just front running means you're probably not a good player", _Shortcat says in the video where he is only frontrunning._

[@TheSauciest]

Landship + Wood tires is a slick looking combo. I’ve always liked using it with Baby Luigi, but now I’m intrigued with trying Diddy on it…

[@Dro0zzy]

To answer that question 20:22, I believe it's neither of the options and rather watch a player that can adapt their way of playing the game during a race. It's just really interesting to see a sudden change of playstyle midrace that will help you reach better spots if not 1st place.

[@user-wk6lz4lz6o]

The part about peachette on a bike killed me 😂😂

[@PeripheriAe]

Facts

[@lukesmith943]

Still dont get it

[@anxietymontage2303]

@@lukesmith943 It's because shes in a tight jumpsuit and you get a rear view and people are weird 😭😭

[@bluess1508]

Reminded me of Rod's recent Peachette video where he kept talking about how he had to keep his eyes up lol

[@klop4228]

I get it, I just don't agree. I'm sticking with Daisy.

[@rye9270]

"hey bb" "was that your greenshell bb" - Shortcat

[@qoobied]

The argument of frontrunning vs bagging is like punching a brick wall, just do what you wanna do!

[@YggisKosmosweltraumdokus]

After 1 year not playing the game, I discovered your videos and started playing again. You're a funny guy and nice listening to - and your expertise of the game helps me improve!

[@spreddable1160]

i'm just watching the funny mario kart man and he hits me with the "peachette on a bike" gem, immediately followed up with a quick lesson on confirmation bias when watching bagging content on youtube wtf?!

[@Kattikina]

Hi shortcat! i love your videos and always look forward to them :) i would love to see a video where u rank the tracks/make a tier list of the tracks that u think are the most fun to play/looks the best etc

[@root937]

Your vids are a godsend. Theres so many shortcuts in this game I did not know existed.

[@whoelsebutjenny]

A Shortcat video is the best way to recover from getting my wisdom teeth removed! 😁

[@TP39_vgmusic]

Congratulations!

[@ThatGuyOnYTWithTheLongHandle]

Hope your teeth are okay. I always cheer myself up with a good ol watch of Shortcat

[@lachepro6860]

Congrats!

[@SweetMelaninn]

Why are you congratulating? 💀💀💀💀

[@LordVonZas]

My guy thanks for all the videos you make, they are really entertaining. I don't even have a Switch nor Mario Kart, but i still watch all your videos, keep them comin'

[@imcvak3461]

20:31 that touches on why I dislike bagging in general yes its very fun to see big comebacks and clutch plays but its also very annoying (to me personally) to be doing well in a race and then just get destroyed by rng cause someone pulled good items. Im aware its a skill issue on my part (at least a fair amount of it is) I'm not good at this game but bagging and broken items has let me get solid placements in races I had no business placing well in.

[@user-xx2br5bz5r]

Congrats on 200K! Huge fan of your great content🎉🎉

[@daire-eo4kk]

Hi shortcat Ur videos always make my day !! Can u maybe do a frozen challenge? With only like christmasy related charcters on ice tracks? :D

[@mrmacura3421]

There are no christmas themed characters in the game. And if he were to only show off races on ice tracks he would have to record hours of video material given that they make up only a small percentage out of all the tracks and thus show up pretty rarely.

[@daire-eo4kk]

I meant like ice charcters like Rosalina or using black yoshi or shy guy to be penguins and like play with friends or fans

[@mrmacura3421]

@@daire-eo4kk Rosalina is not an ice character. Her theme is space and stars and in Mario Galaxy (where she originated) there was no Rosalina's ice world. Any planet would fit her theme, so her "planet track" being an ice planet does not say much. As for the penguins there are already the real ones in snow land and black yoshi (being a dinosaur) would look pretty weird next to them.

[@mangus6191]

I love when the commentary is just about the current game, like discussing what plays were smart or bad

[@chibimoon1432]

Dude im just now learning about competitive mario kart and i have to say! You are so knowledgeable and entertaining! I think ill stick around for a bit!

[@yoloman1750]

i love this channel, its like an old school youtube video, just people good at their games playing and making fun with their coments (not while making stream, that ruins all the autencity of someone playing and making something autentic for a youtube video), btw love you shortcat, keep making this type of content

[@shalltear159]

"frontrunning is broken." you mean playing the game?

[@jossuecabrera8611]

I always wondered if theres a tierlist somewhere in which tracks are better to frontrun or bag. Or somewhere in between

[@kriiptex92]

He's already posted a few videos about it. Not particularly as "top tracks to frontrun/bag" but he has already mentioned a few of them

[@Shortcat321]

I think a more competitive player than myself would be able to make this. I know the top frontrunning and bagging tracks but i couldnt rank the stuff in the middle. But basically just count the shortcuts that you need a speed item for. More/bigger shortcuts = better bagging track.

[@rowancunnane677]

20:14 I feel like there was no warning for the red shell because you intercepted a red shell that was targeting the peachette

[@officialcrypticwarlock7319]

shortcat: “only bagging = bad player, pick the right option for your scenario” also shortcat with 20 videos on bagging only:

[@Shortcat321]

That was my bad player era

[@onebear6504]

@@Shortcat321 😯 Is sweat cat going to not only make a return, but also a long stay!? *Hype

[@mattb6522]

Good video! I was an anti-bagger initially when I didn't understand it, but warmed up to it as I learned that it is a perfectly viable strategy on certain tracks. Honestly, this latest bag nerf is a bit overexaggerated. Even after the update, I still bag on tracks like Mario Circuit 3, Cheese Land, Yoshi's Circuit, Dry Dry Desert, and GBA Mario Circuit. You just can't camp at item boxes which isn't a huge deal anyways. I find frontrunning much more fun, but I do agree that bagging is helpful to know if you happen to fall behind the pack. Making a huge comeback is always an amazing feeling!

[@thegreatmajora13]

I think the way nintendo handled the bagging changes was actually really good. It basically made it so you cant intentionally bag as easily, but it still allows for comebacks, which is honestly the best of both worlds. I do however wish that cheese land wasn't an option in higher level play

[@erichrathkamp8498]

For as much as yoshi teddy buggy is still good, it's nice to see a bit more variety with the DLC stuff lately. Also keep it up shortcat watching your vids has catapulted me to 13k vr

[@BlazinMation]

*Shortcat:* “Bagging is pure skill and I’m never front running again” *Also Shortcat:*

[@DioGotTime]

From what I observed people definitely like bagging when they do it themselves, but give it hate when a bagger causes them to get mario karted

[@Shortcat321]

I always felt this too. but after i learned this game more i realized most of my "get mario karted" moments were on snes mario circuit 3, mario kart stadium, and riverside park. Then it all made sense and i stopped frontrunning those tracks. I think bagging tracks as a concept is weird, but once you understand it you can stop blaming the baggers and start taking control of your own fate.

[@juny_pr]

in my opinion, in a racing game people shouldn't be stopping for items, but if i could remove bagging i would just so i could make the bagging tracks not so miserable to front run, but at the end of the day a comeback is a comeback and it's so hype

[@classarank7youtubeherokeyb63]

When I played with four people recently I was seeing some pretty crazy item pulls. There were several first place triple mushrooms, golden mushrooms, and even bullets. I also pulled a coin in last multiple times.

[@GiorgioAdam]

In wave 6 basically you can frontrun or backrun. You keep going forward and depending on your position you can comeback. I actually enjoyed bagging but I understand nintendo's decision

[@Rune_Scholar]

Imagine that....being in first place in a racing game is a good strategy. Thanks for that genius advice.

[@cxrlooss]

I think that was also beautiful to see people stopping in boxes to take good items. I would probably buff frontrunning by adding the chance to receive single mushroom in first place. That would give u the chance of mantain your lead but do not making it impossible for bagging players ;P

[@brucepoop47]

Hey Shortcat, thanks for teaching me so much about this game over the past months. Speaking of teaching, I think it would be cool if you had some sort of coaching course where people could pay to get coaching from you or something.

[@aboxonmydesk319]

Congrats for 200k shortcat 🎉

[@lilacgrace6025]

I think the thing that makes bagging look good is when everyone else *isn't* bagging. It's easy to like it when everyone else is "honorably" racing. But when it becomes the meta, and like half the group is still at the first item block line it's just like 😐. It's really cool to learn that it can be used strategically, and I think having maps that make bagging harder tosses up the game.

[@GreenEmperor]

Finally someone from Cyprus, my country, in your videos! :')

[@cyarutchiii]

10:19 love the Yoshi and Teddy Buggy are just in the map, what a coincidence

[@RunningRonan]

I personally love bagging and the EPIC comebacks! But if they were going to need it I’m glad that it was in a way that encourages moving forward.

[@bguy9962]

the video ive been waiting for !

[@alltheyoshigames1]

Congrats on 200k

[@MineCreeperLPs]

That spoilers for infinity war got me. Actually laughing out loud it was out of nowhere hahaha.

[@iceheart_115]

Something I've found that makes the half pipe boost mostly consistent for me on Wii Rainbow Road, I aim for the top left corner of the blue panel. Still practicing getting it consistent, but every time I get a good alignment I get the boost, so could be useful in practicing learning it. =P

[@FidGame450]

To me, I see two ways of bagging: intentional (or planned) and unintentional (or unplanned). I define intentional bagging as when you purposefully hang back at the start to get good items. You are making a conscious decision to bag. Meanwhile, I define unintentional bagging as when you bag because you feel you have no choice because of a variety of factors, such as you fell of the track at a bad time, or you got hit by a red shell in like 3rd or 4th and now you drop to like 8th or 9th. At that point, you might as well start bagging. There are people here that can explain this better than me, but the point is there are different ways to bag. You can bag because the track heavily favors it or you can bag because you were in a bad spot and need to get up quickly. People bag in normal races all the time. Whether it’s planned or not depends on the situation you’re in.

[@Wolfiyeethegranddukecerberus17]

Yeah I'm actually glad that bagging was nerfed in Wave 6, as cool as those comebacks were on paper, and as many views as they typically got, slowing down in the middle of a race to win was kind of lame to watch, even if it was necessary in that case to win. Speaking personally.

[@juanpetersburgo6467]

12:00 to 12:35 I freaking can't dude.... I can't stop laughing it's sooo.... HHAHAHAHA

[@SweetMelaninn]

Not funny

[@liamhall6702]

I like the way they nerfed it, you can’t camp at items sets(but bagging is still somewhat viable) and I’ve head races in cheese land, mc3, and other similar tracks post wave 6 where there isn’t much bs things that happen, and now more people are playing the game the way it was intended

[@Pownchao]

I use Peachette on a bike...

[@Shortcat321]

Average mario kart player moment

[@SweetMelaninn]

Weirdo

[@KeruptR47]

It's very simple IMO any strategy in a RACING game that benefits from stopping or going backwards should be worse then any strategy that involves ACTUALLY racing forward.

[@SweetMelaninn]

Exactly

[@camdude7234]

It always a good day when there is a shortcat video

[@Roze_aye]

12:28 Look man... peachette got on them space channel 5s im weak

[@charvisaur4184]

Fun fact: Roy Catcruiser has almost thesame stats as Funky Scooty, but with 1 more speed and 1 less acceleration. It's my favorite combo right now because of how it looks. Roy fits the cat cruiser so well.

[@Doran754]

Challenge: take a shot every time he says bagging and try and stay sober.

[@cjksupercoder]

I really like how nintendo dealed with bagging because it doesn't stop cool comebacks but nerfs staying in the same place trying to get a good item.

[@BetaHoax]

Shortcat speaking facts here 12:19 lol

[@elesann]

This rivalry with BB is just legendary

[@Abstractcuber]

Shortcat never fails to bring a great vid

[@Mage_Nichlas_]

I'd never actually thought about how I would nerf Bagging but I feel like I wouldn't have came up with the single Banana or Green Shell in 12th idea. Also 16:13 was great.

[@james-op7et]

Personally I think that the best way to nerf bagging would have been to change the items that you get in the top spots. Like adding a small chance of getting a mushroom in first and triple mushrooms in 2nd and 3rd. Even though I don't like the way Nintendo nerfed bagging It is good to see them responding to their community.

[@minttshake]

hearing the "try using peachette on a bike" comment hurts me physically as someone who does indeed use peachette on a bike

[@Shortcat321]

Average mario kart player moment

[@minttshake]

@@Shortcat321i didnt know she was viable until very recently its not my fault i swear

[@SweetMelaninn]

Weirdo

[@filippomartelli9235]

I think nintendo didn’t really nerfed bagging, they just made it harder because you cannot stop to chain items, which i think is a clever approach because you got to balance the competitive but still make the five year old playing with his family win with a bullet and golden mushroom so that he doesn’t cry. I would have personally nerfed bagging online where the total wr of the room is very high, by making the better items more rare, but this is just my take on it.

[@POSVO]

14:20 I don’t really play online but I think the way they did it was really good. You can still bag but you can’t just stay there and wait for a shock which I felt like was the worst part of bagging.Also your bagging was the reason I started to play Mario kart again so I’m biased.

[@williammckinney5213]

That Birdo must’ve had to give his little sibling the controller for that last race, he was so far behind.

[@Pseudoslotter]

I love how both frontrunning vids have had a rivalry with some black Yoshi or Birdo (Also, could you please upload a bit on your J perm channel? I love how you are into this channel and it’s great that you are sharing your passions, but many of us cubers are awaiting the return of J perm❤)

[@actualvampires]

Hi Shortcat, i've been watching your content for many months now (super entertaining and your personality is awesome LOL) but to answer your bagging being nerfed question... In a way i think it was needed (i don't play mario kart and never have, but i'm an Alicia Online player that has been in the magic side of the game, which is basically mario kart), before bagging in AO was nerfed, people would just sit behind on purpose and grab the best items and make comebacks, just like in MK ! Since it's been nerfed, you rarely actually get comeback items and more often you end up with defense items. The thing about AO is that besides the item boxes, the player just gains gauge that goes towards getting an item (i suggest looking up gameplay) so you don't have to rely on boxes always (and from this you can actually get more comeback items! i have no idea how this game works n ive played it for 7 years) . I think it's a complicated question, cus i understand why they nerfed it, but i mean... it's so fun lol

[@kindalllowder3595]

I kinda want to see more of the "how good is X combo" series. I would really like to see your thoughts on the Golden combo and also stuff like "max anti gravity" and "max water speed."

[@bowl0soupp]

The fact that standard kart strategy of just racing has been given its own technical name is crazy. Great vid tho!

[@theGrimzer22]

Shortcat: "Am I upset they nerfed bagging? tch , no... nope. I'm not upset... I'm not, really!" *blasted by red shell* "I. AM. NOTTT!"

[@ethanortega1092]

I always had Mario Kart 8 but never played it until I found your videos

[@christsolos]

bro i knew that was the reason for peacette i just needed to hear it from you LOL

[@Sebboebbo]

Da king is back baby he neva miss

[@aleciarowe4421]

love your vids and I want to see your mii and mrscooty again:]. it brings back memories. also nice job at 20000vr. i only have 3000 vr.

[@OtisCluck]

I actually really like the pipe frame for Funky Kong, it has the same speed and mini turbo as Teddy buggy, but more acceleration, traction, handling and invincibility

[@selfawarefungus4462]

12:11 bro just explained every single kart combo i've used since i bought this game

[@TP39_vgmusic]

Here's my two cents on bagging: its bad not because it rewards luck and punishes skill, but because it rewards skills that have no right to be in a racing game while punishing the intended skills and strategies. Its a racing game. The goal should be to get to the front and stay in the front with the best lines and item play. Bagging turns that on its head, where you intentionally stay in the back then make a push to the front near the end. Bagging turns a racing game into an rts game, which isnt what most people are looking for nor to they find it enjoyable.

[@ItsManu001]

Mario Kart is NOT a conventional racing game. Items are a main feature in Mario Kart, and almost surely it wouldn't be popular without items, so hating on bagging because "you're doing what you're not supposed to do in a racing game" is completely wrong. Since the first game of the saga, Mario Kart has always given better items to who's in the back to catch up, so making right use of the items to get the win IS playing Mario Kart. If you don't want to see baggers just play Gran Turismo or any other racing game without gimmicks that help who's in the back.

[@loudwhispre9406]

If bagging wasn't in the game, then there'd be no point to even continue trying if you finish lap 1 anywhere lower than 7th place. If everyone knows the best lines to take, and you're behind all those people, than you aren't gonna win. Once you get to a top spot, you can ditch any semblance of strategy and racing becomes a single player game, where the goal is to take the best lines and possible shortcuts. Also, bagging helps kart diversity. Mini-turbo and speed are the number 1 and number 2 best stats respectively. Without bagging, speed becomes worthless. Once everyone realizes this, they'll min-max their builds to give them the most mini-turbo while sacrificing all other stats as little as possible. And once the "best" build is figured out, no one will run anything else. Then how are you supposed to pass someone when you're both running the exact same kart and taking the exact same lines. If we both drive 20 mph in a straight line, but you start ahead of me, obviously you're going to stay ahead of me. That's why bagging has to be possible in at least some fashion, otherwise Mario Kart gets boiled down to front-running until someone hits you with an attack item that drops you from 1st place to 3rd or 4th, and then disconnecting because you aren't gonna climb back up to 1st anymore without good items.

[@onebear6504]

Tbf, the related skills to bagging are the same skills to race to the front (?) (not knowledgeable on it, maybe untrue). And the goal of "bagging" is to get to the front too, just using a more optimal way situationally. At least imo, what shortcat's been saying is pro players only bag when the situation calls for it and if it's the more sure way of getting to the front, aka a plan B. Cause sometimes it's better to step back a bit and go another route than blindly running in the storm. All depends on trade offs, similar to frontrunning from 1st backing down to avoid a blue shell or pushing through cause it's not worth it. Tbh, I think the problem is that the backside items are too OP compared to other middle & front items, probably gotta add more items or ways to defend against back items. Idk though, not an expert on that. Unrelated, I think what Shortcat was trying to get to on at 14:42 is that bagging is good for content and "INSANE" clips/moments, so Nintendo doesn't want to take it away completely. *Kart racing games* as a subgenre differentiates itself by what Wikipedia refers as "over the top" gameplay after all, and a protagonist miraculously winning the race by skill & luck even though they were so many laps behind the others or were sabotaged and broken would be a great example of "over the top" imo. Edit: wow so many replies appeared as I was typing this huh lol. I kinda feel sorry for the original comment though. Anyways, the above is also just my "two cents", no hard feelings.

[@TP39_vgmusic]

You make good points and I'd like to revise my claim. I dont hate bagging, nor do I think catch-up mechanics are bad, honestly bagging is a guilty pleasure for me. Catch-up mechanics are critical to the fun and success of any game and Mario Kart is no exception. I just personally think they are a little too critical, and sometimes overshadow the racing part of the game.

[@TP39_vgmusic]

@@onebear6504 No hard feelings, this is what happens when you put your opinion on the Internet. Thanks for keeping it civil though :]

[@leojr1165]

Great video!

[@pajarothebird9842]

I appreciate the changes. I always wnat comebacks to be possible (and I value item-use skill), but I don't like people stopping or going backwards. At the end of the day I do like to unwind and enjoy a bit ya kno and frontrunning is more relaxing to me even when i get mario-karted lol :-)

[@fuzbuzz00]

Seems like bagging is still a viable option if you're put in that situation, but you have to be savvy about it. Stay close enough to the pack but don't cross too many places until the time is just right. That makes MK8 bagging akin to bagging strategies in MK64, and much more interesting to see.

[@Bread024]

Man Ur so underrated,u should have atleast 1.5 mil subs

[@Onni-vh1wu]

Yayyyy another shortcat video 🎉🎉🎉

[@flyingteeshirts]

21:12 "even if you don't really like bagging, learning how to do it can really help". 100% bagging is just prioritizing come backs over leading. And, in MK8D, there's a ton of chaos with the item system and track features that basically guarantee that even the fastest player will not always be in first place and will need to make a come back once and a while. the player who has practiced making come backs will usually fare better than the player who doesn't

[@kyon9898]

Never had much of a problem with baggers, but if I had to say I'm glad it was nerfed. Means more people might play the track, lol

[@bellasprout1579]

Black birdo is my fav character, we love to see her winning

[@babydaisy.]

As a lightweight player, most the time i opt to stay behind the pack once i get hit out to avoid getting hit and collect coins because having 10 coins with 1 speed isnt as slow as you think, along side that getting bumped off the map. I always decide to catch up when the opportunity is available, mostly mid lap 2 and it works out for me mostly all the time. Idk if that makes me a bad player or not but i rather keep myself safe than sorry

[@GoodBoyGaming-fj6zp]

I want to see a full bagging video with the new nerf! I want to be able to see how big a difference it made.

[@Flipper1234Gaming]

Hey, Love the video! Random question but what controller do you use/recommend for this game?

[@iwatchtoomuchyt3070]

As someone who likes to play sim racing games, I really don’t mind and actually kind of enjoy the concept of bagging in Mario Kart because MK isn’t a sim, it’s a racing game that follows no rules and it’s meant to be ridiculous and I feel like bagging fits perfectly. Obviously like you said you can’t bag on every track and I think that fact alone is what balances it out. If you’re upset about people using powerups and get upset when someone goes from last to first in the last corner then play a sim. Funny and unorthodox strategy is what Mario kart is all about.

[@maildaemon]

Hey, great video once again! Since you asked, I do agree that bagging needed a nerf, whether direct or indirect - but I don't think this change was very effective. Aside from that, this nerf feels clunky and kinda unintuitive, but maybe that part's just me

[@Shortcat321]

As a nerf, i think it was not good. But i think their goal was to just discourage stopping at an item set, which they did a good job of. As for being unintuitive, i agree that this is a really heavy handed change. But the average player wouldnt really notice since they dont stop at an item set

[@maildaemon]

@@Shortcat321 Hmm, I see what you mean. Most people that are just going forward will be unaffected, so it's unnoticed to them I do think this nerf is a good thing regardless. You raised the point of optics before, and this change will definitely help bagging seem less silly or 'degenerate' I think, which I welcome. I've come to appreciate its role in the game, even as a seemingly unintended byproduct of this game's core item mechanics