How GOOD would Hitmonchan be in Pokemon Yellow with its Gen 2 Special Defense?

[@Q-gf8vb]

As a kid I thought his elemental punches were so good. Boy was I dumb.

[@shinigamimiroku3723]

Pretty sure we all did...

[@grantdaily9662]

Tbf, the elemental punches are amazing for hitmonchan. It just suffers from no Phys/Spec split

[@SpanishArmadaProd]

They are just not with him

[@contestwill1556]

who cares about the damage, it says it's super effective and that's what makes you a pokemon genius

[@neuchatelxanax]

Not as bad as one may think. 10% perma-freeze chances with 24 PP works

[@al1395-y3d]

"That's the only way we can hit ghosts" Elemental Punches: Allow us to introduce ourselves

[@eaglest0554]

Tbf, it's the only way for a normal hitmonchan to hit ghosts.

[@matthewgagnon9426]

He didn't have those yet when he said that. He meant the only way he could hit them right at that moment.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

I wasn't sure I would reach Fire Punch before Lavender, since it kind of depends on Rare Candies etc.

[@matthewgagnon9426]

The Brock/Bruno dichotomy is so funny. Brock is probably the hardest trainer in the game when considering what you have available, and Bruno is probably the easiest.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Agreed. So many runs bog down hard on Brock, but we don't even talk about Bruno

[@brianwisecarver4880]

It gets 420 base special so when it hits fire punch it can blaze it

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Damn, needed more special...

[@LetustheDragon]

Gen1 Hitmonchan: So...I'm the Punch Pokemon...what does that mean? Gamefreak: It means you get attacks that are either bad, or will never be used by your full potential. Hitmonchan: ...what. Gamefreak: Don't worry, we'll make you look good in the Anime.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Facts!

[@MrManbored]

110 special is crazy

[@beebobber546]

That’s how bad their stats are, even with that SDef, their BST is still only 455 in Gen 2. Pretty weak for a fully evolved Pokemon.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Crazy, but Fighting type and only 75 power special moves is still pretty rough

[@selder_7]

I used Hitmonchan in Let’s Go to finally use it as it should’ve been

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

That is 😎

[@selder_7]

Mega Kick on a Hitmonchan, have you no honour?!

[@bitterzombie]

@@selder_7 don't skip leg day

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

What about mega punch on a hitmonlee Or rapid spin on lee and chan

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

I think I did use Mega Punch on Hitmonlee... But yeah, don't skip leg day for sure.

[@GhoullyXX]

Managing to lose when your opponent's last pokemon is frozen is certainly an achievement.

[@Alector12]

A typical Hitmonchan show of dominance.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Honestly the first time I think that's ever happened in a run outside of a disobedient Pokemon using. fire move to thaw the opponent afterwards, which happened in the 3k subscriber special

[@brolsroyceyt2362]

Hitmonchan deserved so much better

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

It will go back to the gym and come back stronger.

[@CWCvilleCop]

@@RBYPokemonChallenges long as he's training with that one guy, he'll be champion one day and that trainer can finally go back to his (Boston accent) faaaamily.

[@Satrim373]

Hitmonchan is my favorite Pokémon. It’s so painful how bad he is in the older games and how he just feels outdated in the newer gens. For whatever reason hitmonchan and bedrill have a special place in my heart.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

I can agree with that, they deserves more

[@CWCvilleCop]

Two of the best designs and concepts that suffered from bad typing, bad stat arrangement, and a neglectful moveset :(

[@Satrim373]

@@CWCvilleCop praying hitmonchan gets a mega fixing him. Back in 2013 when mega Pokémon came out kid me wanted a version of Mega Hitmonchan that gets rid of most of his defensive stats and gives it to his offense LOL to this day as an adult I hope that happens.

[@silverrey7379]

33:08 Aurora beam dropped your attack stat in the previous try, that's why body slam didn't one-shot kadabra

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

RIP, but makes sense

[@davidlaughner1611]

Follow up to this video where comet punch is a fighting type move to help with Brock

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

That would be fun!

[@DoctorNovakaine]

I think the big takeaway here is that coverage only goes so far. The fact that Hitmonlee's boosting move was Meditate meant that it was directly buffing its primary attacking stat, while Hitmonchan could only use Agility to get BBG improvements in its attacking stats. Thus, the numbers simply couldn't match up. I don't even think STAB makes that much difference here because Hi Jump Kick is only 85 Base Power in Gen 1, meaning even with STAB it's only slightly stronger than Mega Kick. Because Hitmonchan doesn't get Meditate or Amnesia, it has no chance of matching Hitmonlee. I do wonder if the early game would go a bit better with Brock Skip. If Hitmonlee could get through the other trainers and get Mega Punch, would it stand a chance when it went back to Brock after that? Not having to rely on the unreliable Comet Punch might improve the chances, it would essentially be hitting more than 4 Comet Punches every time, so if you were able to get to a level where a 4-hit Comet Punch every time would be enough, it could be viable? But I don't know how well Hitmonchan fares against those other trainers at the lower level. Eh, considering it was later in the game that was really hurting Hitmonchan, it's probably academic.

[@matthewgagnon9426]

It's like how technically Psychic is weak to Bug in Gen 1... but all the Bug moves are terrible so trying to take advantage of that weakness is extremely just a trap, and the only Bug types who have those moves are also Poison so they just get obliterated by Psychic types. The Bug types who don't get immediately deleted by Psychic types have no Bug moves to even try to use against them even if they'd be bad anyway.

[@DoctorNovakaine]

@@matthewgagnon9426 I'm not sure that's a precise analogy, but it's certainly an example of the larger balance issues plaguing the game. The ludicrous overpowering of Psychic in Gen 1 comes down to three things in particular: the united Special stat, the fact that its intended counters didn't really work on account of being incredibly weak and limited (and bugged in the case of Lick), and the fact that there were THIRTY-THREE Poison-type Pokémon out of 151. Seriously, they outnumbered WATER. When you have that many Pokémon that are weak to your type, and they also tend to be common ones in the wild AND on opposing trainers to boot, your type's going to look really good. The other types good against Poison don't get the same reputation because those types were Bug, which still doesn't have any good moves, and Ground, which is countered by Water and Grass and Ice and also half of the Ground-type Pokémon in the game don't learn ANY Ground-type moves by level-up. (Also for some reason more Pokémon learn Psychic via TM than Earthquake.)

[@MidlothianOdyssey]

Hitmonchan would be top-tier if you started him with the elemental punches. That 110 Special is just so good! Running out of PP, we all been there :< Edit 1: Having the Flareon team woulda made this run end faster :3

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

For sure, final Flareon just spams Refect against Fighting types...

[@KeiruKeiru]

Next time on RBY Pokemon Challenges: How GOOD would [insert Pokemon] be in Pokemon Yellow with a Super Soaker™? [insert Pokemon] should have been great in a Pokemon Yellow solo run. The problem? Brock is effectively the final boss of the game. And it's just because Brock doesn't really give you anything to work with. Most Pokemon don't have good movesets at this point of the game so they really just can't get through that fight. So we're going to level the playing field by bringing a Super Soaker™ to a Pokemon fight. How big of a difference will this makeshift Water Gun make? Let's find out!

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Actually I'm going to make a version where Brock and only Brock is resistant to every type in the game, just so everything is fair in the early game. We will then see how many Pokemon beat him on Minimum Battles

[@dudono1744]

Manga accurate version of Bruno's Hitmonchan

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Ah yeah!

[@Ply447]

Hitmonchan was my ace all through out sword and shield, getting a tyrogue before the first gym was fun.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Sounds exciting

[@Zthewise]

Hitmonchan is my favorite of the trio. It hurts seeing it struggle because of game mechanics being against it for so long.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Seriously. I think Mach Punch and the special split helped it a lot in Gen 2, but it was really the physical/special split in Gen 4 that made it much better

[@Surfer92]

Could you try a run where Arcanine is Fire/ Normal type? Arcanine has good stats in gen 1 but gets no STAB off of its better attack stat. 80 base special is barely enough for Fire Blast to be somewhat threatening, but its damage between that and its lack of physical stab off of its attack stat made it middling in gen 1. It’s known for using take down in Blane’s gym from its high attack stat. So I’m curious to see how Arcanine would’ve been if it got STAB on its normal type moves (Body Slam, Double Edge, Hyper Beam, etc.)

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

It's definitely an interesting idea. He is supposed to be Legendary and the best Fire type, but generally is outclassed by Charizard due to its type coverage and Swords Dance. STAB Normal would be really cool to try at least!

[@Alector12]

42:24Makes me think that it would have been more fitting in many ways if Sabrina gave the Badge boost to Special instead of Blaine honestly since having high special is Sabrinas whole thing.

[@theowlogram888]

@@Alector12 In the story her gym has only recently replaced the fighting dojo as the gym, and obviously a fighting gym would not boost special.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I often thought this too. Instead she makes Pokemon up to Level 70 obedient.

[@neuchatelxanax]

I love Hitmonchan! Hey I have an idea: Magikarp run but Tackle has 255 base power, or Mewtwo run with all its moves at 10 base power

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

That sounds fun!

[@InfernosReaper]

I genuinely can't see a point in going through Rock Tunnel without just picking up Seismic Toss first, but that's probably from being used to seeing people use Dig to get back to that area

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Mental lapse there. Turned out not to make much difference, but I should have gone for Seismic Toss first

[@InfernosReaper]

@@RBYPokemonChallenges Yeah, we all make mistakes. That's why I was born. But seriously, I do watch way too many solo runners so it kinda skews my perspective on things a bit too much.

[@Watch_over_us]

"Bruce Lee's relative, Hitmonchin."

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Hitmonchan? I think that's Shiftry...

[@Flashliger]

Just a thought doesn't Gen 1 work if you crit once the chain you crit all of them. Does that count for rage too since you can't switch off if similar to wrap, bind, and firespin?

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

It doesn't apply to Rage, but does apply to multi-hit moves like Comet Punch, Fury Attack, etc

[@FistanDauntilus]

Have you done a 0dv vs max vid to showcase the difference?

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

I did this quite a while back with the Krabby race, but it's work coming back to it against sometime soon

[@ConsKitchen]

The return!

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

We back!

[@edwardnowakowski5990]

36:59 I think it was because the first time was a crit, not because of the badge boosts

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, missed that in real-time

[@StinkyMcdrinky-y9e]

Wow can't believe how bad Hitmonchan is even with top tier special. There's a big difference between the punches and thunderbolt and Ice beam!

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, 20 points of power is often the difference in a turn or two to KO an opponent and makes the super effective moves much better

[@dallisjohnson662]

How good would Magneton be if it got its steel typing from gen 2, in gen 1? Especially for RBY pvp, I wonder.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

The big issue would be Giovanni in Yellow, since in that version his Dugtrio, Nidos, and Rhydon all have Earthquake and there is no Hidden Power Water or Ice to deal with them. But if it could somehow levitate....

[@dallisjohnson662]

@@RBYPokemonChallenges Oof, that's a problem. Earthquake would carry into pvp too. The steel typing would let it switch into a hyperbeam, or body slam, but a lot of mons run earthquake.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, Earthquake was kind of OP in Gen 1 competitive

[@michel4152]

Would you consider giving Hitmonchan More Special like 130 for making up for the weak 75 base elemental punches?

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

But what if we went even further beyond?

[@michel4152]

@RBYPokemonChallenges Another way would be to increase elemental punches power to 95

[@SonicMeters]

Can you do a pikachu with max stats like you did with Weedle

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡

[@onijester56]

I am curious as to what score an unmodded Hitmonchan would get. Both with and without "broken TMs". That way we know just how improved the Pokemon really is.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

We shall see.

[@metal7305]

SPC was the crazy thing in the game why they think that use special to attack and defense was a good idea

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Honestly, they likely didn't think about it 😂

[@smilingindian989]

I'm convinced the people chooses stats and move pools had no idea that damage categories were split by type and not individual moves, and Hitmonchan is the greatest argument for that reasoning.

[@rekenner]

Nah, it's that they were throwing shit at the wall and seeing what happened. They also didn't intend for there to be a competitive scene. It's also hard to say what their intent was for balance vs Pokemon feeling cool/interesting. Dragon Quest 5 and the SMT series had already broken ground in this RPG subgenre, but Pokemon was still trying new things. The SMT games didn't intend for Demons to be used for more than a few levels typically, but Pokemon does seem to want you to build a team and keep them.... Sorta?

[@theowlogram888]

​@@rekennerIt's still pretty crazy to make a move called "karate chop" that's learned by fighting types, then make it not fighting types. Or razor wind, you would think it would be flying type with its name and distribution but NOPE, and to top it of it has two downsides for no upside and it's sold at the same place you're sold take down which is better and available to the same mons anyway.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah Gen 1 in particular was more about the idea. Link battling, type exclusives and trade evolutions was more of a gimmicky way to create a multiplayer mode than anything else. But the games spawned a who series that we love to this day, so I'm not complaining

[@CWCvilleCop]

It's funny looking back because since we've had nearly 30 years to play and learn the game mechanics, these kinds of problems are really obvious. But from a Gen 1 dev's perspective, they were part of a team making the game for like 6 years, and Pokemon didn't even originally have types at ALL! So to learn this combat system, relearn it several times over the years, all the while pokemon and moves are being added and removed, it makes sense that it was nearly impossible for each dev to hold all the details in their head and make an actually perfectly balanced move/type system. It's kind of miraculous that Gen 1 is as balanced as it is.

[@DonWippo1]

The Super Nerd knows what is up!

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Nah, he always picks Lord Helix when we all know Lord Dome is better

[@Iamanothing]

You really love MR.FUJIS'S Dialogue. Do you? 😃

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

I mean, he gives us a flute we never asked for, which is like top-tier Japanese Ojiisan behavior. Man is a legend

[@vyrdera]

Gen 1 stat distribution in hindsight, was terrible. But I imagine that they did not forsee the success and scrutiny the haphazard choices would be under. The logic I see with hitmonchan is that, yea, it can't use those moves very effectively, but it allows for mediocre versatility. Jack of all trades, master of none, if you will.

[@vyrdera]

Loving these videos m8 ❤

[@usernamenotfound80]

Let's be honest, Game Freak did not think any further than: One guy on the team likes Hiroyuki Ebihara. We're making a boxing Pokémon based on him. It has high Attack because it's boxing. It has low Special because it's boxing. We're slapping all the punching moves on it because it's boxing. You're getting it on level 30, so it doesn't get any moves before that. They probably did not consider that the elemental punches are special moves or that they didn't put a single fighting-type punching move in the game. They absolutely did not consider that anybody would hack the game in order to play through the game only using Hitmonchan.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Agreed. At the time they were just trying to make a game kids would enjoy, a way to fight friends purely for fun, and no thought to balance in any way shape or form. Arguably competitive didn't really come into its own until Gen 4 because at least the first two gens had some Pokemon that were simply OP and unbalanced, and Gen 3 still hadn't balanced out abilities.

[@BTDIMAD]

What about 0 base stats weedle?

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

I am looking forward to doing it.

[@PabloNeves26]

How about a Saitama run? Give him super strong moves, a fighting type punch, a ghost type one, some lava squirt for fire type, a serious sneeze for flying, etc...

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Sounds awesome.

[@tobiasmills9647]

they should have made the elemental punches physical

[@jbz4788]

They did. Eventually

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

​@jbz4788 yeah like nine years after Pokémon came to the states 😂

[@dudono1744]

They could have done it by duplicating each type.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

I like how they eventually started going back and fixing the obvious mistakes of Gen 1

[@markusjagering7449]

A Hitmonchan with 255 Base Attack could earn the name Saitama.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yes!!!!!

[@michelleslay2701]

Technically faster than Hitmonlee but Lee didn’t grind and won without a special move to its name. This is so funny. Is meditate just that much better?

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, there is a pretty big difference between grinding for minimum battles like Hitmonlee and failing and grinding with Hitmonchan. Grinding within reason always speeds up runs.

[@gigadude]

420 BST blaze it

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Planning a 420 BST special

[@ZealousPawn]

You can dig out of Blaine’s gym!

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, I keep forgetting that, though it wouldn't have saved much time....

[@ZealousPawn]

@@RBYPokemonChallenges I agree. A little bit of time in lot of places adds up though

[@PabloNeves26]

Hitmon-Chan uwu

[@StevenWilliams-i1v]

Why not u rare candies cheat?

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Because that would defeat the entire purpose. This isn't a Nuzlocke challenge

[@StevenWilliams-i1v]

@RBYPokemonChallenges well I see where u are come form

[@KeiruKeiru]

Notice me Hitmon-senpai

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

先輩は構ってくれよ

[@dewottgaming1507]

Professor Oak is not just the leader of team rocket but of all the teams up to gen 7 Galactic Rocket Aqua Magma Plasma Skull if you take the first letters of them all you get GRAMPS which is what blue calls him

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

The evidence is clear, which is why even the original set in TGC had the Evil Oak card....

[@hugomouteira7015]

Losing Body Slam was such a bad play. Terrible

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

What should I have replaced instead?

[@hugomouteira7015]

@RBYPokemonChallenges maybe the fire punch? But I dont know bro you are the pro here. I just felt that mega kick was such a downgrade to body slam. Cheers from Portugal!

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

For sure, I think it would have been best to keep Body Slam if I could, I just thought the other moves were more important going into the late game

[@xbr_osrs]

I wonder what runs would be like if you just changed gym leaders to normal or typeless for certain “bad” mons.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

That would be very interesting.

[@Tjalian]

Okay here me out but how good would it be if it was a fighting/psychic type AND it had 255 stats AND it had Mew's TM movepool Nah, probably still not great

[@matthewgagnon9426]

If you could give it every move and 255 stats it'd be pretty good even if it would still get slowed to a crawl by Brock.

[@PabloNeves26]

All these pokétubers talking about their wives, maybe I should start a Pokémon channel... 🤔

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

To be fair, I think it makes the odds of landing a wifey worse... Didn't tell the RBWife until I was already monetized....

[@ChrisPTY507]

I think it would’ve been better by just exchanging Hitmonchan’s attack with his special stat and that’s it.

[@silentbobfan32]

@@ChrisPTY507 but it wouldnt be right to have the boxer have less punch power than a kadabra

[@fifaworldcup1994]

@@ChrisPTY507 Ah, yes, would make sense for the Pokémon known for punching to have less attack than WEEDLE

[@ChrisPTY507]

@@fifaworldcup1994 There are already several inconsistencies like you mention like for example Purugly being faster than latios, etc so it wouldn’t by anything new.

[@fifaworldcup1994]

@@ChrisPTY507 Sure, and?

[@ChrisPTY507]

@@fifaworldcup1994 ….You didn’t get the irony? Lol, forget it.

[@johnathanskitt1840]

So, why not use struggle. Would it not have won faster in the first gym

[@sumthinorother9615]

Struggle did normal type damage in gen one! On average, it’s just -slightly weaker- than comet punch and has recoil. It has slightly more because of accuracy… the recoil is still really high though, and it’s absolutely a war of attrition.

[@semajniomet981]

Recoil of 50%. Ouch.

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

Yeah, Comet Punch hitting 3 times is about the same as struggle without the Recoil.

[@semajniomet981]

@@RBYPokemonChallenges Now, if you had Gen 3 Struggle (typeless damage), or if Struggle did Dragon type damage, would that have been worth it?

[@jawonjones1877]

2nd! Darn

[@cpalmer3]

First

[@tobiashaase6844]

Bro, why do you sometimes save like 3 times while taking 3 steps, i can't unsee it 😂🫶🏼

[@RBYPokemonChallenges]

It's a bad habit I developed while doing Minimum Battles Challenges. I had lots of cases where I forgot to save and then ran into an unnecessary trainer or lost a fight and went to reset only to realize I hadn't saved since 3 gyms earlier 😂

[@tobiashaase6844]

@RBYPokemonChallenges 😂😂😂