How Hard Should Sword Cuts Be?

[@kibothicc-6268]

This is super, super interesting. Out of interest, when fighting with Sword and Dagger (say, with an arming sword and parrying dagger, idk) is the dynamic of how hard your strikes are significantly different to the longsword as shown?

[@Winderlin]

I actually do this with pvc pipe with foam and tape on it with my brother and it’s really fun

[@sparrowhawk81]

The most prevalent sword and dagger combo from history is by far rapier and dagger in my experience. Medieval arming swords were probably most often used with a shield or buckler or just alone. Anyway, with rapier and dagger it's hard to say how "hard" a cut is. European swords have a TON of variation, especially rapiers. Early rapiers were shorter and wider, later ones generally got longer and a bit thinner. I of course have no way to prove that this is 100% "the way it was", but a lot of rapier was geared toward thrusting, which makes sense given the blades were longer (if you make a single handed blade too long and don't narrow it, it becomes exhausting to weild). Rapier and dagger was almost entirely a civilian/dueling thing too, so it would be between two people who do not have armor. So, a thrust is enough to make the person unable or unwilling to continue fighting you. Rapiers were cutting weapons as well, but not as robust at cutting as a wider blade. That's kind of the way it goes with weapons: you trade one thing for another. You can cut with them and if you cut hard enough with the right part of a rapier with good edge alignment, it will hurt and possibly disable the person, but that lack of mass in the blade in my opinion would probably mean you couldn't depend on a cut to be a hugely disabling thing against an opponent. If I were fighting someone for real with a sword I would never assume anything I'm about to do to them is going to immediately kill them or take them out of the fight. I'd always be ready to follow up or defend no matter what. Adrenaline is a hell of a thing. A cut to a bare wrist or hand could literally make the person unable to hold the weapon, but a cut to the arm or some other meatier part of the body might only make them wince and start bleeding, but keep fighting.

[@shadowdeslaar]

When me and my friend sparred with wooden swords… an edge wasn’t the worry. It was the stab. When he stabbed me with a spear it hurt. Bled. But he never threw EVERYTHING into his stabs. Or he would “over extend” witch allowed me to sidestep and hack his shoulders an arms. Hell I’ve seen him trip over himself. But to be honest. Holding a Roman scutum and using a gladius is harder then I expected. But very fun.

[@sparrowhawk81]

Yes, be careful with thrusts even with a blunt weapon. Concentrating all that force into a small point can hurt.

[@shadowdeslaar]

@@sparrowhawk81 I had gotten some bruises and damage from being jabbed in the leg, thighs, shoulders and especially my hands were MESSED UP! Fingers always got injured !! I had to make tin hand protection am still suffered blunt trauma. For my buddy he would often never get struck by cornered then stabbed. But when I did hit him it was often the shoulders, hands an even head! (We wore helmets). His was welding helmet with a glued popsicle stick lining with wire mesh as the visor. I bought a real Replica of a imperial Roman gallia/helmet. 12 mild steel I think. Our armour was often improvised. Made from Tin cans, backed with tape and string to help make it flex. I made a 100 scales for the front of my chest piece. It was flexible an stopped any Blunt Truama do to it overlapping. But if stabbed hard it would hurt and cut the scales. Many times he would slash an it would literally Tear the tin apart exposing my bare skin. We went hard! With most fights lasting an hour to 30 minutes without rest. We would be EXHAUSTED! I experienced many fails with Roman style shields and many pros! Never use a strap with a center grip, you lose all mobility! Never go barefoot! He stabbed my feet only a handful of times! Whereas the shield itself caused more harm to my feet then the rocks I stepped on. We did bleed, we yelled, we fought day an in nights. It was fun! I wish him and I were still buddies…. But mistakes are mistakes

[@pipp972]

I really love the duo narration style and back-and-forth of ideas you guys got going on.

[@mushroomman4367]

2:58 that sword swing looks DEADLY

[@hobgoblin6551]

How would Kevlar armor work against swords? Like could you make a gamberson out of it and have be effective?

[@cjrdam6967]

The issue with kevlar is that once you cut into it it looses most of its textile strength as it is a woven material.

[@sparrowhawk81]

Correct me if I'm wrong but kevlar is mostly designed to stop bullets, right? I know bullets travel very fast but they are rather blunt and soft in comparison to swords and knives. Another thing to keep in mind about swords and knives is that a thrust from one would have continual force behind it, maybe even the weight of the person's body lunging into it. A bullet hits you and the force is absorbed and stops. Someone stabs you with a sword or knife they might keep pressing into it. It's hard to say. It'd be better than nothing I guess but I'm not sure. I'm sure you can find someone testing knives or swords on kevlar. There's some guy named Theign Thrand who looks like the drummer from red hot chili peppers who does a lot of weapon tests.

[@KriegCommisar]

@@sparrowhawk81Its going to be effective at first. But its not going to last forever

[@Felipemelazzi]

Came from your YTshort video. Funny enough I was watching a Dark Souls video right before

[@klassmedia1399]

Death by 1000 cuts work too.. if you can do it😅. I REALLY @am happy to stumble on your channel. I hope to visit you guys some time. The professionalism. The knowledge. These are the videos I hope to find... good job

[@cheddargoat9121]

wish i had swords and gear for a sparring session '

[@henrikaugustsson4041]

#metoo

[@ZLemons]

Join a HEMA school. Trust me, you won't regret it. I can give some pointers on HEMA schools and the ones you should avoid if you have any questions

[@cheddargoat9121]

@@ZLemons unfortunately where I live there is no hema schools or clubs within a 1-2 hour drive

[@cjrdam6967]

@@cheddargoat9121 same here. I ended up buying a couple synthetics anyway and just ended up sparring with mates and they loved to have a go since they brought out their inner nerd

[@cheddargoat9121]

@@cjrdam6967 me and my friend head down to this beach that is normally empty whenever I go to his house and get some driftwood and spar with that but I recently bought some dowling rods that work perfectly as a longsword substitute instead of the more expensive synthetic swords that don't get delivered to Ireland

[@tramarthomas6105]

love you guys!

[@batuhan4347]

Noting these down for my future Chivalry 2 gameplay

[@chenoaholdstock3507]

What's the most effective take down with a sword? Were non-lethal takedowns common, historically? Or did they have to be lethal to stop their attacker?

[@cjrdam6967]

Im sure they happened. Some people will stop fighting if you easily disarm them. On the other hand someone who loses their sword may not necessarily stop. They could’ve had a dagger on them or just attempted to just crash tackle the person

[@sparrowhawk81]

Well, I'm a Matt Easton fan, so: context context context. It depends on who is fighting and why. If you find yourself fighting with longswords in a war situation, I would think you'd wanna go ahead and make damn sure they can't fight anymore. A judicial duel or something more sanctioned, though? Who knows, you might not want to kill the person. Being attacked in the street and defending yourself? I dunno, I don't know the psychology of medieval/renaissance people. Either way I would say that priority 1 would be "I have to make it so this person can't hurt me" then you can decide what to do to them I guess. As far as what would be most effective and immediately most likely to injure the person badly enough that they die or literally can't fight anymore? A thrust to the neck and you are probably not going to want to hold a weapon anymore, and you are probably going to bleed out very quickly. A hard cut to your wrist or hand with a sharp sword like these? I could easily imagine that severing tendons or cutting off fingers. Kinda hard to hold a sword without tendons or fingers. I've heard an eyewitness account from someone who witnessed a knife attack in which someone got stabbed in the kidney. They were dead in seconds, apparently, so a nice thrust to the kidneys would probably end things pretty quick.

[@chenoaholdstock3507]

@@sparrowhawk81 thanks! I really appreciate the thought that went into making that reply complete. Very useful!

[@nicos.2414]

Hey dude great content👍🏼 Can you do a video on dual wielding dagger tactics and moves?

[@codypatton2859]

Double-bladed sword: is it practical or just flashy? Especially if you wield it properly (like a spear rather than a lightsaber).

[@EaEdge23]

Essentially a double bladed spear

[@cjrdam6967]

The answer is kinda. Its great if you’re outnumbered and possibly surrounded ( but you shouldn’t be letting yourself get surrounded anyway). Its like using a spear. The major advantages it has are that you can simultaneously threaten in front and behind yourself and it is easier to switch between an overhand and hammer grip as all you need to do is twist your wrist. They are however heavy and unwieldy as-well as possibly having a blade facing yourself which is bad for obvious reasons.

[@codypatton2859]

@@EaEdge23 No, that is very different. Just because a weapon is used similarly to a spear does not make it one. I should not have to define such a clear difference in the equipment and how it is used. All you have to do is put them side-by-side to realize that they are not the same and therefore not utilized in the exact same way. Not to mention spears are not "bladed", they're tipped. There's a reason you call it a spearhead and not a blade.

[@sparrowhawk81]

I can't think of a practical reason to have something with a handle in the middle and two long sword blades on either end. As far as I know such a weapon was never really used anywhere historically (or if it was it was insanely rare), which should tell you something. If they were able to make them and they worked well, someone would have done it and it would have caught on. It's fun to imagine, but as someone who fences I don't see how it'd be practical. If you want something double ended, a spear with a long-ish head on it capable of cutting and maybe a smaller point on the butt end would be good (in fact I think a lot of spears had this).

[@brucelaw4776]

Unless the dude you’re fighting is stacked in armor

[@SellswordArts]

We actually talk about that. Harder Cuts won't do anything in armor, you can't cut through armor. You have to change tactics completely

[@brucelaw4776]

@@SellswordArts love your channel btw

[@sparrowhawk81]

Yeah, a sword basically becomes a stick if you swing it at someone in armor. That is of course assuming t he armor is well made armor and there is good riveted mail underneath that with some kind of padding under that. I've handled riveted chainmail. If you lay it on something hard, you can sort of burst the links open if you hit it hard enough, but that is why they wore padded clothing under the mail. The extra "give" to the padding means that the force gets absorbed and the chainmail links hold up. If I were fighting someone in armor and all I had was a long sword, I might start with the weapon out in front of me just to make it so they have to deal with it to get at me, but I would expect things to quickly turn into half-swording or grappling. A heavy enough sword might have enough mass to have a concussive effect on someone if you hit them hard enough in the head, but it wouldn't cut.

[@brucelaw4776]

@@sparrowhawk81 unless you have the legendary katana that chops through anything, like I. I must’ve careful lest I slice the earth in half

[@sparrowhawk81]

@@brucelaw4776 Ah yes, the finest nippon steel, folded 10,000 times. lol. Actually, I own a cheap-ish but decently made steel katana and I like katanas. They are beautiful swords. Hollywood and anime has just made it so that when people find out they aren't indestructible and and can't cut through time itself, it's easy to want to make fun of them. For what they are though, they are very cool swords from a very skilled culture.

[@kd3750]

Guys, I only aim two inches into the partner behind my partner. No mercy! Also I've been banned from my club, but I'm sure it's unrelated.

[@JimmyButler41]

Cobra kai philosophy, but the kids have swords.

[@kibothicc-6268]

Also, wouldn't angrier, more powerful cuts be more useful for stuff like greatswords or claymores?

[@pipp972]

All the same basics apply. Common greatsword tactics include using them like a spear, or wild spinning motions to keep the momentum going.

[@marcossanmartin2784]

Claymores were not so different from Longswords in terms of weight and length. Montante, Espadón or Zweihander (what you would call Greatswords) rely more on momentum and using the length of the blade to keep opponents at bay rather than angrier and overextended swings. So no

[@sparrowhawk81]

@Moyai Drip There's not a ton of documentation on what greatswords were actually used for. There is some Portuguese stuff I think, but I think it mostly focuses on some forms to use when practicing, etc. If you swung a greatsword at a horse's legs, it might hurt the horse enough that it'd come down, but frankly if I am on foot with a greatsword and there are enemy soldiers on horses near me, they are most likely going to be charging at me with a lance or something. If I ignore whatever the horseman is trying to kill me with just so I can try to hurt his horse, I'm probably going to get a faceful of whatever he is pointing or swinging at me. No thanks. If I had a big greatsword and someone was charging me on horseback, I'd do my best to hold the point out and maybe deflect their lance or whatever while thrusting into them as they ride by. I believe I have heard that zweihander type swords were used by swiss and/or german mercenaries in the early renaissance to charge in and try to push pikes down so the people behind them could get through an opening and break the enemy line. I've heard people claim that swords were used to "cut off" the heads of pikes but I don't really buy it. Pikes were made of pretty sturdy wood and were being held by someone such that if you were to cut into one, I bet you'd just end up biting into the wood and pushing the pike to the side. Also, iirc the guys who did this stuff against the pikes were paid double because there was a pretty good chance they weren't going to make it.

[@johnkula1536]

Is there situations where you would hit your opponent with the blunt grip part of the sword? Or how about this, when dual wielding, is it better to use 1 normal sword and 1 offhanded parrying dagger, or 2 normal swords of equal length? What are the advantages and disadvantages of both?

[@tenerokdon4101]

Normally you'll want to use a dagger. First because it's easy to wield on your bad hand. Second, because you can move it around without interfering with your sword, since it's shorter. 2 normal swords give you the (slight) advantage of range if you block with your good hand and have to attack with your secondary compared to a dagger. But if you block with your secondary, distance with your primary will be the same either with a sword or with a dagger.

[@johnkula1536]

@@tenerokdon4101 Thanks for the explanation!

[@sparrowhawk81]

Yes, the part at the end of the grip (on these it is pear shaped and on others it is a disc or something else) is called the pommel. If you end up in a bind or something you can absolutely bash the other person in the face with the pommel. I wouldn't expect it to kill them, but it might stun them enough that you can follow up. We don't do a lot of that when we spar because it can hurt / give a concussion.

[@sparrowhawk81]

As for the dual wielding thing: I think you can find one manual from the renaissance where they briefly cover dual wielding rapiers (I think it was referred to as a case of rapiers). Using two swords wasn't really done, though. Maybe some schools of swordplay have it as a stylistic thing or something, but I've tried it and it really isn't worth the trouble. A dagger in the offhand would be much better.

[@DateMasamune1636]

Is Jumping attack effective

[@cheddargoat9121]

no

[@DateMasamune1636]

@@cheddargoat9121 would love to see them make a video

[@SellswordArts]

its not a great tactic, as you have no control over where you to once you leave the ground. footwork is the real winner of fights. but there are techniques that use a jump, or a hop.

[@DateMasamune1636]

@@SellswordArts could you make a video about it someday

[@SellswordArts]

@@DateMasamune1636 possibly!

[@alexanerose4820]

The problem is, if we treat it as sharp all the time then we've gone right back to foil fencing and if we go huge-big-sweeping-motion all the time then the finesse of techniques go out the window. So until we get some sort of holographic HP bar with hyper-advanced damage calculation or cut ourselves for real again but this time we have super regeneration technology then I say any: pick whatever you want I guess

[@sparrowhawk81]

I don't really get what you mean. Why would you spar with a historical weapon and not treat it as if it were sharp? Genuinely asking, maybe I'm missing something. Are you saying it doesnt make sense to assume that any touch would would the person no matter how hard or soft? If so, yeah that makes sense, but that's why we have a lot of back and forth when we fight.

[@PanCaykes6268]

I've heard from a lot of places that drawn out fights aren't common but can it actually happen? Also can a long sword bind be a good thing?

[@pipp972]

Yeah, it can. There are many techniques around sword binds in the historical manuals, and what you do from there, but they're not those super long, super up close binds like in the movies. More like a brief moment where both swords are touching.

[@PanCaykes6268]

Ah thanks for clarification I'm trying to learn more realistic swordfighting especially in fantasy settings

[@pipp972]

@@PanCaykes6268 Look up "Akademia Szermierzy - Fior di Battaglia: Chapter II (The Guards of the Sword)", that video demonstrates many techniques from binds.

[@sparrowhawk81]

It's hard to say. Two skilled people could probably make a fight last a long time, but I don't know. People didn't write a ton of stuff down that wasn't worth writing down. Apparently a lot of duels in Renaissance France resulted in both people dying, but I don't think there's a lot of info as to how long a fight would last. I've known people who have told me stories about fencing blades breaking and stabbing into people and the person not noticing, so I guess it depends on how bad the wound is and where it is. As for binds? Sure, a bind can be good if you know what to do. There are ways to gain the advantage in a bind and end things very quickly.

[@GankScythe]

Ima go play my Exaggerated ForHonor now...

[@sparrowhawk81]

Nothing wrong with some fantasy sword stuff.

[@clearmelody6252]

"Swords were expensive." *Poor farmer with his great grandfather's rusty old arming sword, priced at roughly five pence.* "Well, yes, but also no."

[@mosqski3106]

out of topic, do you have any interest in covering polish sabre fencing?

[@sparrowhawk81]

From what I can tell there weren't really any Polish sabre fencing manuals or reputable sources from the time period. I know Richard Marsden claims to have recreated some Polish sabre fencing stuff, but I'm not familiar with it. Correct me if I'm wrong, though. If you know of any good info on what Polish sabre might have been like I'd like to see it, honestly.

[@alinvid6098]

Thou shouldst not deny a warrior the pleasure of chopping an enemy's head off... :))))) Just kidding guys, great video !

[@PJeiko]

Can you try wielding the sword of Guts from the Berserk manga? I would like to know what you think about

[@aronnemcsik]

which one? Pre Dragon slayer or Dragon Slayer?

[@PJeiko]

@@aronnemcsik both since they are masive swords, but it would be more interesting to know about the Dragon Slayer

[@PJeiko]

@Zexion Almasy I know calling the Dragon Slayer sword is imprecise, but it's the best word for someone who probably doesn't know, can understand.

[@sparrowhawk81]

I love Berserk but both of his swords are ridiculous. Even the less huge one he uses as a mercenary would probably be somewhere near 30 lbs total and be very hard to swing. And the dragonslayer one? Forget it. That thing would probably weigh anywhere from 60-100lbs. No reason for it really, other than that it KICKS ASS.