How I got the Sorcerer Class Wrong - Player Character Tips

[@abouttime837]

I always respect people who look back and admit their misunderstandings

[@theDMLair]

A T Agreed. It takes rocks and humility to admit when one is wrong.

[@Futonghost]

Agreed, this gentlemen is now subbed.

[@magnusanderson6681]

"rocks and humility" "rocks" Rocks? What?

[@theDMLair]

Magnus Anderson By rocks I mean balls. Or courage. It takes both humility and courage to admit one's mistakes, especially in a very public medium like KZbin.

[@dominicthompson4975]

Legit it takes a good person to admit when they messed up.

[@oysterstu4822]

I don't know many KZbinrs, much less, people in general who are willing to say "I was arrogant and wrong." You're one of my favorite channels and this just solidifies it. You're fantastic

[@livinginlux]

The sorcerer is not, typically, a loner class. Some mention should be made of where sorcerers also shine: interaction. Their main stat is Charisma, which implies that they have embraced their power to influence and manipulate others. The class has access to all the social skill proficiencies: deception, intimidation, persuasion, and even insight, the first three of which pair perfectly with the main stat. And their metamagic provides social options that are entirely unique to the class. Subtle Spell allows them to cast in a crowded setting, while they are being watched, without anyone noticing...even if they are bound and gagged. Heightened Spell forces disadvantage on the saving throw for spells like Charm Person or Suggestion, which no other class can do. Alternately, Twinned Spell allows them to manipulate two persons at once; they are the only class that can maintain concentration on both spells simultaneously. Careful Spell can allow them to hypnotize a room while leaving their allies unfazed. In sum, Sorcerers have a wealth of options at their fingertips for interaction encounters, so much that they rival Bards as the most effective face of the party.

[@nimbarzentivos1237]

I play a Favored Soul Sorcerer (from the Unearthed Arcana play test material). At 6th Level my proficiency bonus will double anytime I us a Charisma check in Persuasion. I will take the Skilled feat at my next opportunity and gain a +11 on all Charisma checks. The girls won't be able to resist me! Nor will the Mayor, the Captain of the Guard, the money lenders........

[@GoodOldGamer]

I wonder if you could effectively mix Sorcs and Bards... 🤔

[@Person01234]

This whole thing kinda makes me want to make a non-charisma based sorcerer who is ashamed of his magic and uses it sparingly, focusing more on martial prowess instead. It's stupid, but I like stupid.

[@firestorm165]

I once played a sorceress with the entertainer background. We needed a distraction to get into a bank so I perched myself on the ledge of a fountain outside and drew a crowd with some magically enhanced singing and violin playing. The crowd quickly became a street party, then a block party, and by the time we got out of there the entire city was in festivities and the guards had completely given up trying to maintain order

[@GrydLoc]

@@Person01234 yes! And it is not as stupid as it seems. I once had a Dwarf Tank-Sorc with 8 Cha. and 20 Con by level 4. He was amazing you get a good Cha-Save to balance the stat dump, and then you just don't take offensive spells because your DC is tanked. I know I am late to the party... but having recently discovered this channel I am only going through it now...

[@TheInsider15]

Think about it like this because when broken down to their core fundamentals Sorcerors are the prodigies Wizards are the nerds Warlocks are the cheaters

[@mamneo2]

So, are you saying that Neji is a sorceror, Rock Lee is a Wizard, And Boruto is a Warlock?

[@havok8570]

Clerics are the bible club kids, druids are the vegans and bards are the metal heads.

[@FlameLord050]

Be a shame if the prodigy actually was good

[@TheInsider15]

@@FlameLord050 I disagree, the prodigies are far better than just "good" they're pretty awesome

[@FlameLord050]

@@TheInsider15 I mean the prodigy cant even master more than 15 spells, I mean even the cheaters know more.

[@malcour40]

Elsa in "Frozen" was basically a Sorcerer. Her entire story is based on how she had powers she didn't want, and how she grew from there.

[@Malkuth-Gaming]

and then she let it go. But it was Anna who figured out how to undo her magic ;)

[@michaelsorensen7567]

Bit of unpredictable wild magic going on.

[@Tadofalltrades]

After just watching Frozen 2 this is even more true than we thought

[@vexsten6171]

It takes a big man to take back a mistake and own up to it. You did a good thing this episode.

[@adamgrey268]

Good guy, Guy--always putting the viewers first. Love it!

[@Notere]

"I've learned a lot over the years since I died. A lot more than I learned during my life. And now I see that planning doesn't matter. Strategy doesn't matter. Only two things matter: Force in as great a concentration as you can manage, and style. And in a pinch, style can slide. In any battle, there's always a level of force against which no tactics can succeed. For example, all I need to do is keep smacking you with Energy Drains, and soon you won't be able to cast any of your fancy spells at all. Because, yes, I am a sorcerer - and this magic is in my bones, not cribbed off of 'Magic for Dummies'. And I can keep casting the same friggin' spell at you until you roll over and die. You can have your finely-crafted watch - give me the sledgehammer to the face any day." ~ Xykon, epic level Lich/Human Sorcerer.

[@nickwilliams8302]

Regarding the math-heavy nature of the 5e Sorcerer, I have something that might help. You will need: Something to use as tokens (beads, pebbles, the little crystals you get at new-age shops, whatever) 9 small containers (sake cups, large shotglasses, that size) to represent the nine spell levels. 1 larger bowl (about the size of your hand) to represent your pool of sorcery points. Another container for tokens not in use (spent or just spare). From here, it's pretty obvious how it works. This will allow you to visualise the interaction of sorcery points and spell slots as opposed to doing math on your character sheet.

[@michaelsorensen7567]

Alternatively an old Mancala game board with labeled cups could work. More compact, and all a single unit.

[@TengrioftheCrimsonSky]

Much appreciated as someone who felt like you missed the point especially given your feelings on Warlock. Hopefully (now that I know why the other video happened) you can have a player that embraces the other sides of the sorcerer soon.

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

My first character ever was a fighter champion-draconic sorcerer. But he didn’t start with sorcerer, he started as a blue ‘dragonborn’ fighter in scale mail. There were hints about what was going on, from the disgusting mutant appendages moving under the skin of his back to the way static would always spark around him. The biggest hint was when he showed up as the most magical thing in the room as our npc wizard was looking for a cursed McGuffen. It still surprised most of the party when, at fourth level, a storm appeared out of nowhere, my eyes lit up with an electrical glow, and the party and I had to frantically work out how to stop it before I exploded and/or sank our ship. Trying to get a grip on it became my character motivation.

[@Paraboxify]

So instead of a single video on sorcerors, we get two for the price of one! We all slip up, and taking the opportunity to reflect and learn, and take action on our mistake can be a great and beautiful thing, and in this case, a boon for your audience.

[@unamed1142]

Twinned video.

[@yoko3182]

Your point about the limited spell list is why I love the Divine Soul Origin introduced in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. It adds the entire Cleric spell list to what the Sorcerer already has. This means you can have fun things like the Distant Spell metamagic combined with Cure Wounds, allowing you to Cure someone 30 feet away from you.

[@neotagatg3238]

I can respect someone who admits they messed up. I feel like maybe that would be a good angle to revisit each class. Even if only from a 5e perspective. As 5e really changed a lot of things from other editions.

[@calebharendt6924]

This video is the main reason you are a great gm and I enjoy your channel so much

[@NinjoXEnlightened]

The real mark of a great gamer, is the fundamental ability to learn. You showed that to us today, good job!

[@cgdoubleu3823]

Bravo, you've fantastically remained humble. Thank you so much for acknowledging your audience.

[@theoneinboots6668]

Very rarely do I hear about someone who admits to their mistakes. Let alone call themselves (or what they had done,) arrogant. You have my utmost respect, and praise.

[@thejammiestjam]

I appreciate you coming back to this class and apologizing, and admitting that no one is above returning to the PHB. Humans make mistakes! I know I've gotten over-confident about things before, and made mistakes because of it. This is a much stronger video. :)

[@DonaldSimsProduction]

As a writer, I am in awe of the education you shared with me! Thank you!

[@theviewerofart]

Liked and favourited, was already subscribed. This was needed, and yet not everyone would have gone back and done this. Your integrity has earned you a lot of good will today I think! Never lose that rarest and finest of qualities, it makes you a fantastic source for us here, and because of it I look forward to watching your videos for as long as the channel exists.

[@Kymlaar]

I had no doubt that you'd revisit the sorc even before you commented, and I'm very glad that you did. I feel like you hit the mark this time with this expanded examination of the class. Though there are other options for sorcs, as you say, we shouldn't expect anyone to have more than the base books. Frankly, I find the options for Sorc in the base book somewhat limiting, but thankfully that's why players can work with the DM, to tailor their characters to their interests, and the world! My favorite part is your discussion of the character arc that is built into the class. It doesn't always have to be uncontrolled power, but perhaps untapped, or resisted power. I might consider Walker Bo from the Terry Brooks books to be more sorcerer than druid, resisting his abilities for a long time, and coming to grips with them, and himself, and thus achieving, as you say, a more balanced self as a result. It's something I'm encouraging my players to do, decide on what their 'perfect them' would be. It doesn't mean they'll reach that, but it gives the GM something to help the players work towards, and gives them an OOC purpose for their character, to inform their IC actions. Thank you as well for the apology. I don't believe it was required, as the video is all we wanted, but it isn't an easy thing to do, and I appreciate it. I'm sure others do as well. :)

[@dubuyajay9964]

Fey ancestry, elemental ancestry, angelic or infernal ancestry, Lovecraftian/Eldritch ancestry. Did I miss any?

[@ashleygillespie-horne6429]

I did think when I saw last week's video about 30 mins after it was uploaded, and saw the comments coming in, that you may live to regret the response you got. But fair play for dedicating this week's video to a correction and/or explanation. Much respect. Saying that, I don't think you were wrong to discuss your experiences with Sorcerer players. "To gain knowledge, one must study. But to gain Wisdom, one must observe", as the famous saying goes. Which is what you've done during your time and experience as a D&D player. Ultimately the result here is we now have two videos for Sorcerors: How they are often played, and how they *could* (or possibly even *should*) be played.

[@geniumme2502]

one of the most genuine and best apologies for a mistake i have ever seen.

[@ggwp638BC]

Instead of making a sorcerer that didn't want his powers, I made one that saw himself as deserving of them. He was from a noble lineage that was reverenced dragons and was said to have dragon blood. Still, it had been generations since anyone had shown any signs of it in their lineage, and when my character was born with scales all over his body he quickly became the family's treasure. That kind of upbringing turned him into a outright dick, with an ego the size of a planet, wit ha disdain for the weak and into someone who saw his powers as something natural and even obvious to him - after all, if he wasn't going to be a being so powerful as to have an innate connection to magic, who else would? He even attempted to take over his kingdom, but failed and fled. As a refugee in another nation, he met up with the party and joined them, as an attempt to meet people that could help him fulfill his goal of taking over his rightful position, and to take part in protecting the land he planned to rule one day (truly a DRACONIC ruler, right? right?). Still, I didn't went full nuke with him. As a noble, he ought to have a more balanced set of skills than being a cannon for the battlefield. Since he already had high charisma, I gave preference to utility/social spells and skills such as persuasion, intimidation, etc. So, although he had his fireballs (which were quite nice with that extra damage on fire spells), and could deliver a ton of damage, he would really shine in conversation and diplomacy (HIS kind of diplomacy, mind you). It was quite fun to watch him grow and go from treating his party members as pawns to seeing them as his only friends and equals. In the end, deep down, he was really lonely.

[@jhinpotion9230]

A friend and I have a similar idea planned for Curse of Strahd. A duo of a warlock/paladin (just two paladin levels, he never took his oath) and a sorceress/warlock (three levels, she made the same pact as the other but didn't pursue that power much beyond the initial boon). The sorceress was born poor but sees herself as deserving of power and status, whereas the warlock was born noble but wishes to overtake his family, probably by force.

[@markhutton6824]

Great back story for the character though! Fully embracing the class and then going way too far! :D Love it

[@Person01234]

Similar in some ways to my evil drow sorceress who has a massive superiority complex because of her inherent ability to wield magic (far above and beyond that of a typical drow), believing she is destined for greatness and that once she reaches a certain power level she will ascend to godhood. She will eliminate anyone who she percieves to be getting in her way (including in one incident her entire family).

[@ramirezthesilvite]

Thank you for coming back to this! :D Sorcerer is one of my favorite classes, and I was looking forward to hearing some tips on playing one better.

[@somewherelse]

Genuine class from a quality D&D channel! This is why I always come back. Also the link to your amazon shop just leads to the amazon home page not your shop page.

[@Alione]

Brilliant! I absolutely *LOVED* this session! You talking about the dichotomy of the class being both narrative and mechanical hit home for me. You also reinforced my "mission" to strive towards having a more balanced character. The narrative power of this class makes me eager to immerse myself during sessions, and I am discovering more about her even *after* writing a backstory. The metamagic and Sorcery Points make me feel as if I can almost instantaneously increase my effectiveness during combat. Once again, thank you for reminding all of us that there is no harm in revisiting that which we may have thought mastered. I enjoy growing with you!

[@vargsvansify]

Wow! What a way to lead by example. In order to become great at something you must always be open to the possibility that there might be things you don't yet know. Very happy I subscribed to this channel.

[@ThePyromania13]

My current PC is a Divine Soul sorcerer from Neverwinter who's terrified of his powers because of all of the fiends and such he grew up around - He's always been viscerally aware that any untimely outburst of holy magic could bring every vile thing in the area down on his head. His character development is getting away from Neverwinter, opening up to his party, and trying to understand that his holy heritage isn't something to be afraid or ashamed of

[@ThePyromania13]

And given that I switched from playing 4e holy classes to playing 5e, I've found the sorcerer's mechanics to be comfortingly familiar in their mathematics.

[@sorenagernakk8432]

This. This is what i was hoping to see in a video about sorcerers. I love playing sorcerers when i do play them, and to hear you talk about why i have come to prefer the sorcerer as my go to caster class makes me happy beyond words. I love this series as it gets me to look at classes in either new an exciting ways, or to see a class i don't like in a new light. This video i've gained no new understanding of the class as what you've spoken of are the exact reasons i love the class to begin with. However, I look forward to the next video and what new understanding it will come with.

[@s0up391]

This is reason why I love your channel you feel more real and genuine and this apology is well made so thank you

[@Irrixiatdowne]

Thank you for going back and giving Sorcerer a more thorough look! I have recently joined my first campaign, after asking my friends a few questions about what class would fit my preferred role of 'melee battle mage' best, and they reccommended sorcerer. On the first meeting, I looked through the PHB and began crafting my character; after hearing from the other group members I settled for a 'utility-mage' Tiefling sorcerer of draconic descent. Unfortunately half the group seems to have left, but the homebrew setting and the rulebook definitions still helped me to craft a character who has both interesting story and powerful potential. Dragons are extinct in this world, so she wouldn't necessarily know how to emulate one; but their language is kept alive in the recording of arcane knowledge, which she began studying after leaving her birthplace--as a devil-looking person that begins unexpectedly manifesting ethereal hands may not be particularly welcome. In deciding to challenge herself with repairing a broken-down trade caravan passing near her monastic exile, she was invited to join along in travels with them, which she accepted; eventually becoming an apprentice of the merchant guild. She took the virtue name Unity in honor of her comingled ancestry and desire to join cultures through trade, and has now set out in search of wares of her own. Two game sessions so far and she's gotten some 'antique' weapons from skeletons who were attacking an innkeeper who treated her well. So far she's been cautious but excitable; likely viewing her magic as a gift/skill to make use of through work and labor.

[@Rubidius]

Thank you for taking another look at this class. This video is much more satisfying to listen to. Keep up the great work!

[@nettogames4268]

What I love doing whenever I made a sorcerer, was go for wild magic, and make it out to be a grand wizard who had suffered amnesia from a fatal experiment failure. Their "innate" magic, is actually what they had previously dedicated their life to study, only to have it muscle memory now, not remembering the details for themselves. Ontop of this, they retain fluency in Primordial, the language they had studied along with their spells. I think this holds great relevance to wild magic, as without the knowledge on how to cast spells safely, their spells have a good chance of backfiring or having strange side effects. As a character concept, I really enjoyed how that came across, leading to a forgetful character who ended up becoming incredibly powerful despite having no idea what they're doing. They also still own their mansion and wealth from prior to the accident, but they don't actually know it's theirs, and so never made use of any of it, thinking it to be somebody else's. Another interesting touch, to have an exceptionally wealthy character who doesn't understand that that is their own wealth. xD

[@lastsonofzod]

Thanks for going back and taking a closer look at this class. I really like the disconnect you pointed out in the class build. I'm playing a sorcerer right now, and this input was useful to helping to build him up.

[@1217BC]

Thank you. We all make mistakes, that's human. The measure of a person is how they handle their mistakes. It's nice to see you acknowledge and own your error, and act to correct your oversight. Very refreshing.

[@lightrowe]

You know, honestly, this video has made me want to revive the Sorcerer concept I had back when I first started playing 5e. Now that I'm better at making DnD characters I think I can do it justice. You've definitely got a new subscriber.

[@grayson6451]

Just watched the first video and this one auto loaded and I laughed at the backpedal but I appreciated how serious you take your craft. Much love to you. Hope that you are well. Thanks for your contribution to the game.

[@CityKanin]

Guy, you are the most beautiful soul i’ve ever known! Appreciate the humility and wit. Stay awesome! :)

[@SpectorOfDoomYT]

My favorite Sorc. build was a Dragonborn, who had a lightning breath weapon, and was allergic to caffeine to the point that it caused him to sneeze uncontrollably. The party did not believe him, tricked him into drinking strong tea and then watched in horror as he proceeded to electrocute/stun an entire markets' worth of people with uncontrollable lightning bolts.

[@petsan97]

I really love both the Sorcerer and the Warlock, because they are so heavily based in story. There's so much potential in the backstory and even in an ongoing plot. Because while multi-classing would mean months of in-character training to achieve, awakening as a sorcerer or entering a pact with some powerful entity both happen swiftly and are both completely in control of the DM. Heck, in the game I'm currently running, one of the characters was blessed by a powerful fey, so now I'm just waiting for a good story-moment for him to awaken.

[@lordkira9791]

Agreed. I have a party member who is playing the shadow sorcerer that was born from the fragment of Bane's soul that was not used to make shadowfell by the raven queen. He's supposed to be badass and looks badass. But in reality he's an old man who's always drunk and secretly loves the color pink and purple under his pitch-black robe and his sinister looking mask. He's hilarious (and the player really gets into his role lol). And he's very strong now that he's higher level. It's really a fantastic class to role-play as. and it's ridiculously powerful at higher level. You just have to accept that it has a very slow start with low spell lots that are very noticeable in the beginning (15 sounds bad but it's 15 AMAZING spells. that's more than enough at the end).

[@petsan97]

LordKira Yeah, the shadow sorcerer is just awesome in general. The Hound of ill omens is absolutely great for a spellcaster, and the rest of the shadow sorcerer features give the sneaky rogue a run for his money almost as much as the shadow-monk. And these kinds of fun characters is exactly why we always roll the stats at my table. The party Rogue ended up with 18 for Intelligence and Wisdom, and 8-9 on every other score, but he decided to run with it, so the character ended up being a "retired" master-thief who is too old and stubborn to properly retire and is now on a grand quest to reclaim his youth. Meanwhile, the rest of the party consists of an innocent young Artificer who just wants to make friends with everyone, a gay Tiefling Ranger who wants to kill his dad, an Aasimar Bard who doesn't really know what he's doing, and a Dragonborn Necromancer who is basically just waiting for them all to die so he can make more zombies. Also there was a Natural 1 on a drunken handjob at one point... I love D&D.

[@lordkira9791]

Agreed.

[@Fiskxx]

By listening to this, ive got a really fun (in my opinion) idea. The character can be a person that has primal, animalistic urges, that hears whispers in an unknown tongue sometimes as theyre about to fall asleep... and when they start casting, they start to chant in draconic in a low, blood chilling tone. The blood and instincts taking over, and flooding with ancestral knowledge (Sounds like shamanism almost). The character could have an inner dillema of how to deal with that. They could be scarred of being posessed for example, after they floated above the ground with glowing eyes, and emited a wave of fire at the bandits, searching the area for help, only to discover what the origin of their power is, and to work on slowly embracing the alien knowledge imprinted in their blood . There can be a proces of adjusting, and a change from being scarred to finding peace. Also, it seems to be very fun, for the summoned familiars to adress the player by the name of the dragon that was the start of their legacy, similar to devil may cries "Son of sparda". It just sounds powerfull. Well, just a quick thought ive had, i hope somebody uses this because i dont have any way of playing myself now.

[@dracorim6370]

I'm so happy that you realised what you did wrong and corrected yourself because right now I'm playing the draconic origin sorcerer who is descended from Tiamat and due to his close connection to her power his innate personality barely keeps himself from being evil so when he is angered he begins to release abilities that he sees as evil even if they aren't such as using his dragon breath

[@allyjackson3561]

in pathfinder i built a young human crossblooded sorcerer orc/dragon who sees his power as a curse when that power presented itself it killed his family and marked him with the mark of a terrible orc alchemist who almost enslaved the world.his spells were all violent witch was out his control he became an adventurer hoping to remove this curse. what made it great in the story many players characters tried to make him come to terms with that power and when it was needed they would push him to use it. he tried to learn to wield a sword or a bow but it never came to him.

[@LupineShadowOmega]

That is just fun. Reminds me of a Ranger I once created that utterly hated being a ranger. He was forced into the job because an elvish adventurer saved his father's life, but asked that as payment he'd get the first thing he saw when he got home and opened his door. Thinking nothing of it, his father went home only to see his wife holding their new baby and he had a choice to make. His son or his wife and so my ranger was stuck in the woods learning the ways of the elvish ranger, until his teacher requests that he go on a journey with the son of an old friend of his. Country Ranger in the big city. Having a skill set that he feels is a burden forced upon him by a cruel and indifferent teacher, and trying very hard to leave it behind, but fighting the guilt of breaking his word or the fear of abandoning the only life he's ever known.

[@allyjackson3561]

more or less i found i like to make powerful characters witch is fun but it makes the chalenges harder for the group cause the DM has to up the challenge for my character. so i decided to use backstory/ character traits to weaken or cause the character to fail in combat. like my sorcerer would only use magic if there is no other option so in most situations he would be pretty shit in combat but when he did break and use his magic it would usually be glorious and deadly.

[@88Hyo]

So basically el diablo?

[@EdwardClayMeow]

I am glad you are willing to visit the sorcerer class. I hope you will do the same for the monk. There is far more to that class than your video on them seems to suggest. And even in a more traditional Dungeons and Dragons setting a monk can offer the chance to play a stranger in a strange land. This, I think, can offer some interesting ways to explain one's setting through NPCs explaining things to the monk character. I imagine the fun it might be for the player of the monk asking a bunch of 'what' and 'why' questions that either the DM can answer through NPCs or other PCs might chime in to explain.

[@glasswolf2061]

I applaud you, sir, for having the humility and respect for your viewers to come out and admit when you messed something up, hehe. Not many KZbinrs do! Good on you, Guy, good on you.

[@revshad4226]

Great job on admitting your mistake, and it always good to see a continuing learning. No one knows everything about the game. So even from your mistakes and need to correct yourself we can learn that even the leaders of the community are still learning.

[@zackc5764]

I missed your previous video on the topic but as cross-class gish-y sorcerers played as superheroes is my favorite sort of thing to play - I thought that I'd chime in and thank you for the good points regarding story potential

[@kerryburt9498]

Pure class Guy. Takes a big man to admit he's wrong on the internet!

[@cyanmanta]

For my halfling wild magic sorcerer, I wanted to explore the story idea of an adult being stalked by their imaginary childhood friend who doesn’t want them to grow up. In this case, he grew up with a “friend” who, it turns out, was actually a mischievous sprite. It granted him power to cast spells as he went through adolescence. As he grew up, learned a trade and became a journeyman baker, the two of them talked less and less and the sprite started to resent it. So now it follows him around and messes with his spell casting to stop him from drifting away and having a normal life. One day the oven went out at work and he goes to light it again, and BOOM wild magic triggers, fireball on the roof, half the bakery burns down and the guild leader gets badly injured. He’s out of a job and blackballed until he finds a way to repay the damage, and the sprite is thrilled because now they’re going on adventures together, just like when he was a child.

[@SquirrelLazer]

Always watched the odd video, the fact you went back and gave such a genuine apology to your viewer community made me Subscribe. Keep it up, I like your vids man.

[@markhutton6824]

Great video! Thank you. I was pushed into playing a sorcerer, as I joined the adventure a few weeks late. I didn't have time to think about a back story, nor had I played a character that was so dependent on magic, I love Bards and Rogue classes normally, and for once the DM had let me have a Tiefling. Now my character is 8th level and I had been putting them in harms way so I could move on to a new character that "fitted me" I had an epiphany recently, I like this character I had started to develop a backstory with an estranged sister who might be mixed (is) in a bad group (playing The Shackled City) and suddenly I started to look at my real motivations. Short story turned very long I have after watching this video twice just written four sheets of A4 on the character, her backstory, her motivations, why she was always a smartass and looking for "emotional releases". In the next sessions, if there isn't an emotional release there will be pain from not releasing the magic that she feels is a curse and the reason she took up with adventuring parties was in part to out to bed the childhood bullying and feel part of a grou, as much as she might actually hate admitting that to herself. Thank you so much for this video!!!

[@Nanokawaii42]

Sorcerer also do not have access to counterspell (which is a really powerfull spell) and ritual casting. On the other side, they make excellent buffer/debuffer because they can twin spell, thus giving advantages to two person on the team. I had a really bad first impression from the first video I've seen from you, but I do not regret giving it another try, it was interresting. To rebound on the possibility of backstory you gave about the sorcerer wanting to get rid of their magical ability, making them a buffer for the team may be a way to mix mechanic and roleplaying way of accepting their magic ability since they use it to help other instead of the "classic" destructive way ! Plus you become a nice team player, which is always good ! And since it can't be done at first level, it even gives room to expose and create around that problematic and see a developpement over the time. I appreciated your video, thank you.

[@SirLucien]

I have started playing a Thief Shadow Sorcerer (1/3), no offensive spells at all, but everything I need to break in and out without anyone knowing I was there. I am now seeing how technical a class this can be, and starting to respect the true power of the class. Great video.

[@PhillyCheeseGaming]

A stunning reversal! Well done! I think it’s that strange dichotomy between narrative focus and number-intensive gameplay that appeals to me as a player. I love both sides of the game. Maybe that’s why I’ve always enjoyed playing Sorcerer. Anyways, great video, much respect for admitting what went wrong last time.

[@ShockAweGaming]

Was very glad to see you go back and return to the Sorcerer class and amend the focus on wild magic! One thing I still think you overlooked is the sorcerer's potential as a melee class, especially as someone who has played a sorcerer but has never played them as a ranged character in any way, shape, or form... not even once. Especially draconic sorcerers (dragon disciple prestige class in E3.5) they make a fun melee fighter class. My sorcerer always took as little offensive magic as possible, preferring to focus on buff/defensive magics to enhance their melee combat preference.

[@petrdavid7434]

You have my respect for apologizing :) also thanks for all the content you create. You helped me to create a better story a lot and continue to do so. I'm buying your book as soon as I have the bookcase in the new apartment :)

[@thevebis6392]

I made a sorcerer who believe she's a wizard! She had magical powers, and was sent to wizard school (like Hogwartz). She was better than the others at first, because while the others had to practise and study for their spells, she just did it now and then! But after a while she was outspelled by the Hermiones who studied and got to cast their spells on a more regular basis. And since she's a Wild Magic sorcerer, the spells go wrong, and is eventually thrown out and sets of to find her self.

[@philippatron7492]

Good on you, friend. For a while I was confused about what the sorcerer was about for a while, too. But I think the biggest strength of the class, mechanically, is their ability to convert slots every round to continually use the same clutch mid-level spells. They're the only class(even with only PHB material) that have the potential to dish out an average 590 points(to a max of 952) of dmg in 5 rounds at their pinnacle. Moreso than wizards, they're more capable of nuking, using quickened spell and firebolts.

[@bennettmccluskey9739]

Hey, you did good. This video was nice. The sorcerer did kind of need 2 videos one for mechanics and the other for story.

[@MagicalMaster]

For character arcs I have some for the expanded sourcebook sorcerers for you. The Celestial Sorcerer feels unworthy of their divine lineage and is always doubting if they've done the right thing. The End of the journey could have them standing as an equal to their angelic ancestor or surpassing them. The Storm Sorcerer could be a thrill seeker who just doesn't get why others fear thunder and lighting and may very well take to throwing electricity and sonic blasts at people for fun. The learning of how much impact the sheer force of storms has on the world would be a sobering realization. Imagine a storm herder, someone who keeps the truly dangerous tempests away from civilization for an end goal. The Shadow Sorcerer might be flat out terrified of their power. They're hearing things whispering in the dark, they can see monster out of the corner of their eyes and they know something has a grip on them. Their arc would be confronting this and perhaps even reversing it. Imagine Rorschach-ing it up, where you're not trapped in the Dark. The Dark can't escape you.

[@blarghensmargen3648]

The sorcerer can add a bit of fluff to your story as a unique magic caster as well. With the Wizard class, the magic that they know comes from years of study and different rituals learned from said years of study. Warlock comes from a different diety and are only as powerful as that deity allows them to be. With the Sorcerer its kinda like a rechargeable battery, they can channel that energy into different spells but very rarely have I seen or heard of a player who asks if they can just channel their spell slots into something. A good example for this was with this little Sylph Sorcerer child was at a tower between time and space. They had just beaten all of the towers defences and suddenly its main magical core was starting to shut down. This meant that the tower could just pop out of existance and they would be trapped there for all of eternity. The rest of the party were thinking we needed to run but he thought. "I really don't think we can make it and do the ritual to get out of there." So he asked if he could pumped his spell slots into the core as raw magical energy to try and power it back up or to stabilize it. The GM allowed it and the player just started to pump as many spell slots as he could into the thing. Many hidden GM rolls later and the tower popped back into real space on the world they came from and the party was saved. Just an idea to give to other GMs and players for this particular class.

[@storyspren]

Massive respect on admitting what went wrong and immediately after that, fixing it. I recently made a Sorcerer who I'm introducing in a game soon-ish, and this video is much closer to my experience with creating the character than the previous one. Then again, I didn't even look at Wild Magic because I was inspired by the Storm Sorcery subclass. He embraces the power that comes with his heritage, but isn't a fan of the political responsibility of being nobility. And a good roleplayer can make Wild Magic work really well too. The other origins just give more direction to the background, so I personally feel like Wild Magic needs more effort on the player's part to work. We have a Wild Magic sorcerer in a game I'm in though, and it's clear that she put great effort in her background. We got some hints recently and it's very weird and interesting.

[@egirlSkeletor]

The relationship with your power can not only make your story more interesting but your gameplay more fun. I like to choose spells and metamagic based on the source of that power. I HIGHLY recommend subtle spell for example. It may not be as powerful as quicken or twin spell but it has awesome style and roleplay potential. Throwing out a mind spike without lifting a finger or seeming to spontaneously create a blast of energy can be incredibly fun.

[@trevorm6746]

I have no idea where you are. This is the first video I've ever seen of yours, but I already thing you're amazing

[@hhluca8062]

Liked it before I wayched because I knew it meant you were making a community acknowledgement video. please just promise you stay in touch, and not just when you're wrong.

[@paulcoy9060]

If any of my players wanted to be a Sorcerer, I would allow them to pick from any spell list, because they are tapping into a universal magical field, but they would still have a limited number of spells, as listed in the PHB.

[@CathyLarkinWebSavvyPR]

@paul coy, The change I would make is to allow them full access to the sorcerer's spell list at their level, kinda like clerics do, but differently. i.e. - they don't have to choose their spells in advance, but can pull whatever spell is needed from the spell levels available to them during the day. Cantrips might be locked? but if you are brimming with magic - why not pull the magic into the spell form you need, when you need it.

[@dewberry150]

I admire you and how you run your KZbin channel and how you interact with your audience :)

[@ironman2818]

Thanks for video! As a newplayer this is super helpful.

[@BLynn]

Sorcerers have 8 spells that the Wizard does not have access to: Chaos Bolt (XGTE), Enhance Ability, Daylight, Water Walk, Dominate Beast, Insect Plague, Fire Storm & Earthquake. While the Wizard has access to 121 spells the Sorcerer does not, though you are right there is more utility & less flashy than the ones the sorcerer has access to. Many appear to be involved in conjuration/summoning, but that could be just my quick glance through the list. I used this spreadsheet to get my numbers. (If you find errors please comment so I can fix it. There are some columns that I have added recently that may not be 100% complete and those columns are on the far right.)

[@geoffreycannon2197]

Really impressed by the re-examination here. Takes serious courage to admit you made a mistake and go back and publicly face it. That being said.. this makes me REALLY want to go out and grab the 5e books. My friends and I still play 3.5, but this and the warlock are pulling me toward it, even with my extremely limited moneys.

[@evanry999]

I have a sorcerer tiefling. My quest was to purify the bad reputation that tiefling have... after almost a year of playing DnD with this character I died. BUT I LIVED. A wild magic surge resurrected me as a wood elf. Now I'm trying to purify tieflings reputation as a god damn wood elf.

[@DarkTravelerProductions]

Thank you, thank you, and thrice thank you! Guy, this was what I was looking for. Mainly because my favorite character was a sorcerer of red dragon lineage whose distant relation turned out to be the "Big Bad" of the campaign. So much story potential, and I'm glad you returned to this subject.

[@pepperaimeemorgado788]

The Beck I

[@rashkavar]

Interesting discussion, and kudos for your ability to eat crow so gracefully. I would like to point out, however, that it's also worth noting that the draconic sorcerer might not have a full understanding of what's going on - at least, that's not how I read it. I'm quite new to role playing - my first campaign (as opposed to one shot) is actually kicking off next week. In an effort to familiarize myself with DnD 5th edition (since it seems to be the one getting all the hype these days), I did a few character mockups. Like you, I feel story is integral to role playing - if I wanted to play a game like this purely for the mechanical enjoyment of creating powerful characters - and sometimes, I do - I would reinstall one of the old Icewind Dale games and enjoy their big meaty dungeon crawls. One of my picks was a halfling draconic sorcerer - the main reason I picked that was largely mechanical - I was amused by the late game ability that allows draconic sorcerers to sprout wings and fly, and this idea of this 2'9 tall halfling flying around the room throwing fire and death at everything was worth it. But then I started developing backstory. This halfling - never did bother naming him, since he was never meant to be a playable character - was a farmboy, and his draconic lineage was dormant for so long that only rumors of some ancestor with arcane powers persisted. He's kinda an arrogant SOB, though - growing up with the ability to shoot flames at anyone who annoys you will do that. He eventually caused some manner of ruckus that led to a mob driving him out of town. He moved into the city (again, no specific city; there's no setting for this guy), worked as a scribe for a bit, then as a forger, and eventually became a fence for the thieves guild. Over time, his shop became known as a place one could find odd curios, and eventually started catering to adventurers as well as nobles. He was eventually sold a broken sword - some originally magical weapon of a long dead warrior of great renown. He used his mending spell on it, making it appear physically fixed, but as per the mending spell's mechanics, it lost all its magical properties. (He's not a wizard, he doesn't know how it works, he just pokes broken things and they get fixed.) He eventually sold this sword to a nobleman who was searching for a suitable reward for a group of adventurers. Among these adventurers is a paladin of some great and vengeful warrior god, and a student of his out getting his field training. The sword goes to the student, and since the adventurers trust the nobleman who provided the weapon, they fail to check whether or not it's magical, they just assume it is. The student gets himself killed, which the older paladin attributes to the fact that his magical sword was not so magical after all. Paladin goes back to the nobleman, who promptly shifts blame onto the halfling sorcerer. The thieves' guild gets wind of this impending doom and quickly notifies the halfling that he's got to get out fast. He grabs some emergency supplies (starter equipment) and runs off. By the time he meets the rest of his party, he's evaded the persuit of that particular paladin, but said paladin has put out word that he's an enemy of the order, and so he now needs to hide from *everyone* who follows that god, at least until he finds a way to make amends. ---- So yeah, selfish and arrogant because his abilities basically let him do whatever he wants growing up, and ignorant of exactly how his abilities work, and has already managed to fuck things up royally as a result of that ignorance. It may not be quite the dramatic arc that the imbalanced -> balanced character arc you described, but if you go for a more gritty, realistic setting (well, as realistic as a setting with dragon-spawned halflings who eventually start throwing fireballs at anything that gets in the way can be), having that perfect dramatic arc is kinda overplayed. Real people are rarely like that. (I must admit, at the time I was writing this, I was (and still am) deep into Steven Erikson's collection of fantasy novels. He's a master at making even his throw-away characters - the guys who last two pages and exist solely to provide the perspective of a dying soldier up against whatever nightmare they're up against - get enough treatment for them to seem more real than any character written in that more dramatic form.)

[@joshuayurkovich6786]

I appreciate you acknowledging when your wrong (even though I liked the wild magic episode) it takes guts to call yourself out like that *pushes subscribe*

[@Zarl451]

Enjoying all your content Guy and impressed with the humility in this video; keep up the awesome work!

[@schmidtty717]

I'm currently playing a wild magic sorcerer and love it. He is a half elf and I came into the campaign at lvl 4. My backstory is that his wild surges have driven him slightly mad. For example I said he once spent years as a potted plant in someone's garden. He has been magically aged to the point where his beard is beginning to gray. He is wary if his magic and will desperately try and talk his way out of a situation for he fears what may happen. He is wary of the other adventurers as he has caused the death of others before.

[@nickwilliams8302]

Great point about the potential for Sorcerers to have "unwanted power" (a character hook possessed by some great fictional characters). They are adventuring because that's the only career available where the ability to throw fireballs at an enemy is worth the trouble of some of the nastier results on the Wild Magic table. There are a couple of other classes that could potentially have this hook. A Warlock, for example, who made a deal to serve their Patron in exchange for some specific favor (freedom from slavery, curing a loved one etc.). They don't actually _crave_ the power of a Warlock, but the patron has given them certain abilities in order to serve their purposes. The character doesn't choose what powers they get as they advance, it's the _Patron_ who decides that they need to be able to read any language or see in the dark or levitate at will or whatever. Just when the character begins to _actually enjoy_ a particular ability, the Patron swaps it out for another one that _they_ see as necessary. Of course mechanically, it's still the _player_ making these decisions; it's just that they roleplay the new power as unexpected and unchosen. A Barbarian whose rage has utterly destroyed their relationships and career, leaving them with no option but to turn to a life of adventuring. Nick Cave once observed that "rock star" was the only job in the world where you could show up to work _utterly off your face_ and have the reaction be, "He's off his face! _Awesome!"_ Similarly, "adventurer" is possibly the only career where a tendency to fly into a psychotic rage when faced with an obstacle or frustration might be regarded as not just acceptable but _outright advantageous._ Even if you're a soldier, breaking formation and charging heedless into the fray is generally frowned upon (to say nothing of what the consequences are if your chosen career is ploughing fields or moving heavy objects for offensive aristocrats). For a Barbarian in an adventuring party, _that's your fucking job._ It's why the rest of the party _brought you along to begin with._

[@WesMontrose]

I'm glad you revisited this. My draconic sorcerer is a bastard, but the only of his father's children who manifest the gift, compounding his shame. Now we have a subplot along with our campaign of my father trying to kill me, as the gift is seen an affront to the heritage. I think you can do much more with a sorcerer backstory than a wizard because sorcerers are basically the dnd equivalent of mutants in the marvel universe.

[@FriendlyKobold]

Friend you have really proven your quality with just a few months of me being subscribed

[@ryanbeverley1546]

The Sorcerer can also be like a magical "Incredible Hulk". The whole "i have powers i cannot control" fits that concept

[@Shadowrider-wx2ys]

I'm playing a sorcerer who desperately trained to be a wizard but due to his lacking intelligence he was unable to complete his studies. In his attempt to figure out magic he accidentally unlocked his magic power in a freak accident. As such he does his best to pretend to be a wizard as he thinks it's a more respectable profession. I enjoy sorcerers for this kind of thing.

[@StuffulVmax]

Thank you greatly for revisiting this topic so quickly!

[@collinhunsicker7465]

You did a great job on the apology and I really enjoyed this revisitation.

[@matt_laubenthal]

I would treat spell points in a cinematic way, making them represent the player character's attunement to the heritage they are channeling, as well as making them represent the "stamina" of that superpower. A character dipping into their spell points would then be someone leaning hard into their heritage, eking out as much power as they can from the quality of their connection, whatever their relation to it. The extent to which they tinker with spells in combat could also represent their actual, sincere effort to wield their internal power. The failure or success they experience with spell points can then drive a character's relationship with themself, their family, their past.

[@Comicsluvr]

I liked your channel before. I REALLY like it now. Mad respect for listening to your viewers, Guy.

[@Enclave.]

While I did agree with a little of what you said in the last video? I'm very glad you made this one because yeah, Sorcerers are INTERESTING based on the source material. I remember once I played a Rogue initially, this was in 4th Edition. He was an Eladrin but had no talent for magic even though his family naturally all did. I'd worked out with the DM when I initially created the character that he actually had an artifact embedded within him in place of his heart, it was an artefact placed there by his father, it was a life saving situation in my youth that my character didn't remember and it in turn hampered my personal magical ability. I still manifested the ability to teleport but that was the extent of my powers. I'd worked out with the DM some potential triggers to transform my character ahead of time, if they were enacted then the artefact would trigger a change from my being an Eladrin Rogue and turn me into a Fire Genasi Sorcerer, the idea was that the artefact changed me into a fledgling Primordial. Now, it was entirely possible that the transformation would not happen at all throughout the entire campaign (though I suspect the DM would at some point have made sure it happened as he liked the story hooks it created and needless to say it did eventually get triggered) but once it did well the Chaos Sorcerer was just the ideal character flavour for this character. One thing that was quite enjoyable about the character is I tried to pass him off as a Wizard back when he was still an Eladrin Rogue, it involved many sleight of hand rolls and some fun roleplaying for sure. Now yes, my Eladrin Rogue and eventually my Fire Genasi Sorcerer weren't optimal characters but optimal characters I find tend not to be as much fun to roleplay as and they were still perfectly viable. Sorcerers have a ton of wonderful flavour that allows you to get very creative with your character creation and have a lot of flexibility with it as well as long as you of course consult with your DM ahead of time so you can work together to create something very special for the group as a whole.

[@xelloskaczor5051]

"Murder everyone and take their shit" - Im not chaotic evil! Im practicing my traditions!

[@paranidherc]

Kudos for the video. People tend to be nailed and riveted to their opinions.

[@squirreljester2]

Love your videos. I'm playing a game right now where I'm a warlock and I wanted to take a few sorcerer levels. I came up with a story that instead of a dragon it was my fiendish birth, and my fiend patron's powers that infused the sorcerer ability in me.

[@walterpretorius2793]

I did a mass backstory. Divine Soul, his Magic is "Light". Divine Warriors from past generations. Guild Artisan, the family were well off Jewel merchants. He discovered he can alter light through stones/gems to cast magic. I focused on Divine magic for utility buffs, used Rays and Bolt spells for attacks.

[@KCDunbar]

Sorcerors don't have to be held to the few ideological principles you speak of. My last sorceror was raised as a detective. His spells were innate as all sorcerors are, but they were specific in aiding investigation. He gained this from his family, who were bestowed magic due to living near a let line Nexus. Each member of his family had a different School of magic that was represented.

[@gliscorpotas]

I really enjoyed the previous video, even though there appears to be such a large backlash. I hope it doesn't get taken down since it's still a really solid discussion of wild magic.

[@Deubler]

That was a more in-depth apology than most public apologies from celebrities and politicians, hahaha

[@sarahellwood1552]

Some good tips, I've been playing a sorceress recently and this is definitely something to think on.

[@britishninja]

My favourite take on the Sorceror is a divine soul who genuinely believes they are a god , when in reality it's a trickster god amused at the sorcerores belief and humours the by granting them snipits of divine magic

[@lordofdorknessdm3085]

Appreciate the video and kudos for the update. Enjoying your channel.

[@MrKago1]

I played with a sorcerer with the draconic heritage really well. He had a great development of HATING his heritage, but his personality became more and more like a red. He would cast the a fire spell and would burn himself. Only superficial damage, at first it was only 1 hp per fire spell, but GM upped it a bit to 1d4. But he needed a healer so he was forced to stay with others. Eventually he began to see us as his trusted minions. He would fly into a rage easier and easier as his personality became more and more draconic.

[@adriel8498]

Sorcerers are my favorite class. They didnt wanted to have power, they just have it and that open so many roleplay oportunities. They don't have summon spells or simulacrum but the metamagic gives them a lot of options.