Sorcerer Metamagic Guide for Dungeons and Dragons 5e

[@DungeonDudes]

Jump ahead to a specific discussion: 4:19 Careful Spell 5:53 Distant Spell 8:55 Empowered Spell 10:45 Extended Spell 14:00 Heightened Spell 16:52 Quickened Spell 22:15 Subtle Spell 26:00 Twinned Spell

[@DungeonDudes]

ajs1031 You can’t (and don’t need to) cast cantrips using spell slots. They automatically improve as your character gains levels.

[@christinaelisabethebbesen3976]

Does using Subtle spell mean you can’t be counterspelled? The enemies can still see the cone of cold coming towards them or whatever is the visual part of a spell. Is this a no-counterspell-ticket in ALL cases?

[@redram9]

@@christinaelisabethebbesen3976 yes and no. If a spell had a material component, your enemy could still possibly notice you grabbing your arcane focus or reaching into a component pouch. Without a material component, the spells casting would be imperceptible. However, I would definitely have them roll to perceive you grabbing the material component, as well as a sleight of hand check from the sorcerer to disguise your grabbing of the component. I might also forgo the check for something clever, such as slathering honey on a biscuit, and then "accidentally" getting some honey on your finger, which would enable you to cast Suggestion with Subtle.

[@zammorac]

I'm a bit late to the party but I'd like to bring something up. At about 1:54 you say "They can create spells as high as 5th level, as long as they can cast spells of that level." and this is slightly wrong. They do not need to already have spell slots of that level, a 6th level sorcerer is able to make 4th level slots and a 7th level sorcerer can make 5th level slots. This has been confirmed by Jeremy Crawford on twitter.

[@lastunusedchannelnam]

Sorry I’m late, but say I took the Warlock initiate or multiclassed and took Eldritch Blast because it’s my favorite spell in the game, lets be real it’s sick. Anyway, could I twinned spell my Eldritch Blast if I’m lower than level 4 (I think that’s when you get the second beam) essentially gaining an early level 4 Eldritch Blast? Not saying it’s efficient for campaigns that go on past level 4 but if I were making a one shot character would it be possible?

[@quentindevlay3359]

I really wish every sorcerous origin had a unique metamagic, the way clerics get extra channel divinity features based on domain. Guess I'll have to homebrew that.

[@chrisblake4198]

I like that idea. Might go well with the thought I had for Warlocks and Sorcerers. I think they both deserve expanded spell lists with 3 options per spell level, and one spell from each level is a free pick (if you switch it later it has to be for another from the Expanded list).

[@kylestillwell7031]

The failed “college of invention” wizardry school provided a great inspiration for a metamagic type with changing the elemental type of spells

[@jaysea682]

Thanks for the idea

[@symphony10]

That is an amazing idea and I will be stealing this for my games. Thank you so much.

[@darienb1127]

You could make a really powerful one for level 20 to replace the lame ass ability that is there.

[@richardproper8682]

I'm surprised they didn't mention Subtle Counterspell! Denying an opponent's spellcasting ability without an apparent cause is an amazing intimidation tactic. Whether it's denying someone else their own charm spell in the middle of a negotiation they expected to easily get the upper hand in, or causing the enemy wizard's opening fireball to simply "not work" while you stare them down with no aggressive action, Subtle Counterspell is an excellent way to get opponents to just *back off* and possibly avoid a confrontation.

[@haysdixon6227]

I quite like this comment

[@Eramiserasmus]

This and sometimes remembering that Intimidation is a Charisma skill can really be helpful.

[@gavingameplay5790]

Personally my preferred trick is halfway through the cast look them in the eyes and say "no" or something like that and it just go's out for no reason other then you deciding to.

[@zotro123]

i cant wait to do this!!

[@haleyw5677]

Or the fact that subtle spells can’t be counterspelled

[@jarrickhillery8664]

Lesser known use of subtle spell: if you are playing a campaign where you’ll spend a lot of time around water, subtle spell can allow you to cast spells underwater if you are completely submerged.

[@anthonynorman7545]

+

[@Jawn15]

Water doesn't stop sound.

[@anthonynorman7545]

@@Jawn15 the dmg or PHB says that verbal components don't work under water IIRC

[@Jawn15]

@@anthonynorman7545 I'm pretty sure it does say that but I house rule that out. 1. Because its dumb. Wtf WoTC? 2. Dolphins use echo location, Orca whales use distinct unique noises to communicate with each other and varies pod to pod. 3. Water does not stop sound waves.

[@anthonynorman7545]

@@Jawn15 1. Your opinion 2. They evolved specific mechanisms to create distinct sounds under water 3. Water vastly distorts sound waves (which isn't much of a stretch to conclude the distortion would prevent the incantations of spells to be executed properly)

[@lilfox378]

I have recently created a character completely built around subtle spell. He's a Divine sorcerer And all his spells are based around Battlefield manipulation. He also acts as if he's an old man who doesn't know why he's there so in the combat he's just huddling in the corner. But in actuality he's casting crown of Madness or command on the enemies.

[@tatersalad76]

I'm playing a sorcerer like that too. Only he's a trickster, so he likes to throw around Subtle Spell to mess with people. Detect Thoughts, Suggestion, Catapult (for cheating at Shot Put a few times when not just used in fights), Polymorph, Levitate, etc.. So much chaos

[@7rhymes599]

I love having old characters use their age to mess with their enemies. Bandit camp? Old man can call his party his bodyguards, asking them to protect him! Then as he sneaks behind another player, the bandits not worried about him, he starts casting Poison Spray. Great way to keep your mage out of the front lines too.

[@tomm35]

The most important part about the Subtle Spell metamagic is the fact that it cannot be Counterspelled (unless it also has material components). This is because Counterspell requires the Counter-caster to know that a spell is being cast. Subtle Spell makes it imperceptible.

[@brycemedyn8672]

Situational I think for the fact that if you tried this with say fireball, the red streak would give it away.

[@jarodjagges599]

@@brycemedyn8672 I'd say if they are seeing a red streak it's probably too late, the spell is already happening. Counterspell is an interruption and essentially saying screw you to the player even though they took a niche metamagic and made a smart play leads me to say "bad DMing".

[@jakepietrzak7552]

Bryce Medyn fireball has no red streak, it’s an explosion centered on a point.

[@TKZ100]

In a game, subtle spell allowed me to detect an ambush during a conversation with detect thoughts...and trigger it before the enemy got to act with a subtle fireball.

[@Grintock]

@@brycemedyn8672 Fireball has material components, so a subtle fireball can still be counterspelled. As can most offensive spells.

[@Autonamatonamaton]

It's great that these guys actually go into the positives and possible uses & synergies for each metamagic, not just the "strongest" choices, rather than just going "lol these suck" like so many other guides do

[@jaspermooren5883]

Subtle Spell: The entire reason I would play a Sorcerer.

[@Reishadowen]

Imagine if you dual-classed into bard...So much mischief!

[@chromegaman]

Currently playing a hapless merchant with minor obvious magic abilities; subtle spell plus crossbow plus ray spells equal I HAVE THE BEST CROSSBOW MONEY CAN BUY!

[@noahmehringer29]

It’s the ultimate f$&@ you to counterspell, if they can’t see the spell being cast, they can’t stop it

[@PsyrenXY]

You'll love Aberrant Mind then, they get free Subtle on their Psionic Spells

[@diegobologni3724]

Same here, totally must have for a spellcaster.

[@noobhero7]

On that same note, I run Subtle and Empowered (Running Quickened later) and I have to say, Subtle Counterspell is probably the single most hilarious thing when the enemy cast is looking at themselves like: "Uh.....this doesn't happen all the time, I swear!" And that's not even including the shenanigans subtle casting can bring when being a nuisance. XD

[@stevenbyers3383]

noobhero7 this should be top comment😂

[@stevenbyers3383]

And I do have a sorcerer with subtle meta and I might have to try this😂

[@AaumondHD]

Subtle Spell also allows the caster to use spells when bound and/or gagged. Makes the caster way harder to pin down or imprison

[@DungeonDudes]

Only if those spells don't have a material component. Subtle Spell doesn't let you bypass the need for an arcane focus or material components.

[@noobhero7]

Thank God for Misty Step and Dimension Door XD

[@AaumondHD]

@@DungeonDudes Yup. Haven't been yet in a spot where I was stripped of my Arcane Focus, but that could happen.

[@beanjuice4263]

@@DungeonDudes subtle spell beats silence

[@Ker-f4o]

Subtle Spell plus Warcaster ftw(just lose a hand or something and use the prosthetic as a focus)

[@dfallenb9358]

Wish I could *twin* my like. You guys deserve more than one!

[@BigggusDikkkus]

well you will have to spend a level 9 spell slot to do it....

[@boydwilliams1183]

I really like quicken especially at lower levels just to be able to dodge or disengage or dash and still cast a spell it's very very handy

[@aformofmatter8913]

Cast a spell + use an item seems like a pretty cool combo to me. Throw some holy water on those undead while you burn them with magic fire! Use a healer's kit on your downed friend after blasting the orcs on top of him! Chug a potion, then disintegrate someone! Fun for the whole family! Creative use of items is one of the coolest things you can do in D&D in my opinion. I really like the thief archetype's ability to use them as a bonus action, and it seems like quickened spells allow for a similar sort of thing.

[@AllToastersToastToast]

You can also multiclass a martial class with the sorcerer to gain the benefit of attacking with a weapon and using a spell. I could see an assassin rogue with some levels in sorcerer take Quickened and Subtle Spells, so you can have a stealthy spellcaster who has additional disguising abilities, and all of it is still conveniently placed in your Dexterity and Charisma scores. Granted, you might not get some of the higher-level spells that a focused caster would get, but it’s kind of like an Arcane Trickster who has the abilities of a low-level sorcerer, and you’re a bit less limited on what schools of Magic you can take if you want more blasting spells to take advantage of Quickened Spell.

[@DrakeCaliburn]

Distant Counterspell has saved my party more than once.

[@DurandalsFate]

RAW, this isn't supposed to work. The casting time is "1 reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell." Distant Spell only affects the range, not the trigger for the spell.

[@CathyLarkinWebSavvyPR]

@@DurandalsFate also - I thought Sorcerer didn;t get counterspell

[@DurandalsFate]

@@CathyLarkinWebSavvyPR Hmm, you may be thinking of something else. Sorcerers do have a more limited spell list than other arcane casters, but they do get Counterspell: www.dndbeyond.com/spells/counterspell

[@badmojo0777]

@@CathyLarkinWebSavvyPR based on what? Sorcerers get counterpsell on every spell list ive ever seen

[@coranbaker6401]

@@DurandalsFate RAI for the win!

[@nathannye4048]

Twinning Haste is a personal favorite. Sending a Hastened barbarian and fighter into combat is a beautiful thing!

[@isaac8734]

@@gamecavalier3230 divine soul with war caster feat - adv on your concentration checks and if you fail you can use ur 2d4 option to up your score into success

[@isaac8734]

@@gamecavalier3230 yes but its a last option cause if yoy have war caster which is great to a musthave for any spell caster anyway you already will probably succeed most of those concentration checks if you play smart and try and avoid the damaging areas and opponents. A twin haste for a barbarian and a fighter can close an encounter even the difficult ones in 2-4 rounds. Just how much damage would a sorcerer would take if he stir clear and avoid in those especially if you use something lime invisibility fly greater invisibility and the likes...

[@coranbaker6401]

Playing a homebrewed Storm Sorcerer with Twinned and Quickened spell. Use Haste on the fighter and myself to run into battle with a 16 AC, smashing things with my staff and casting spells on the same turn.

[@emilygordbort7300]

@@gamecavalier3230 What the hell kind of sadistic dm are you playing with lol Like I've put my players in a fight with 3 Oni that kept disappearing and reappearing with full health 2 minutes later, and even to me it sounds like the hypothetical DM who's doing this is just pulling some bullshit Most monsters aren't gonna see a screaming mountain of muscles run up to them swinging 3 times with a battleaxe the size of a house and think "hmm, today I'm going to Disengage and try to bite the squishy old man 50 feet away"

[@emilygordbort7300]

@@gamecavalier3230 Ahhh ok, thank you for the context I thought this was some veteran hard mode DND where the DM was pulling some 4d chess shit to counter everything the party did, fighting a bunch of Shadows and a Will-o-Wisp is a much worse situation to be in Your situation sounds much more reasonable and I will take this into account with my future sorcerers

[@Azandeer]

Spell Sniper & Distant Spell. For when you just don’t want to get out of bed.

[@aldoushuxley5953]

And now Play sorlock with for 8x eldrich blast range :) I would let my Players Roll with disadvantages at These distances though.

[@btCharlie_]

@@aldoushuxley5953 - I mean, they paid for every one of those features, I'd feel a bit cheated if a DM would do that to me, as a player. I would still argue even if they informed me beforehand, although personally I don't see much use for that kind of range anyway, so it's all very hypothetical. Edit: In fact, if a player was really intent on doing this combo thinking it's really cool, I'd try to engineer an encounter here and there where they could make use of that ridiculous range just so they'd have fun with the otherwise inefficient build.

[@aldoushuxley5953]

Well you can snipe them from a rooftop and they cant even See you. If you Play sorlock you probably have an invisible familiar, so you dont even have to be in their Line of sight to Hit...

[@kristhebrownie]

@@btCharlie_ I would require them to use some sort of binoculars or spyglass to snipe from that range, but would otherwise allow it.

[@aldoushuxley5953]

Yeah, in the past 2 month I gained some experience as a DM and I take my statement back. If the player wants to specalise into range, I woud let him do that. Most combats are cc anyway, so its by no means overpowered (apart from maybe the sorlock part, but that too depends on how the player roleplays the character)

[@k.w.mcgregor5147]

Wow I'm early. Must have Quickened my click.

[@IHateNumbersOnNames]

The C and the L came together and made a d. "Must have quickened my dick" really caught me off guard.

[@MrOrdinaryGoose]

@@IHateNumbersOnNames it doesn't seem to be a viable buff

[@AJPickett]

Excellent video guys! (Could you please add a timestamp index to the video description, so I can refer players to this vid as a tutorial resource. Thanks!)

[@DungeonDudes]

Done and done!

[@foxunix101]

AJ Pickett hey! I know you! I stole the ideas from you while you were eating cheese! Willow reference haha kinda.

[@theonlymatthew.l]

@@DungeonDudes I just want to give you gentlemen props, your content is always high quality, and you respond to your viewers much more often than the majority of other D&D channels.

[@flightmaster90]

One of the backup character I made was a changeling who had grown up in a Dragonborn tribe, and used subtle spell to “copy” the Dragonborn breath weapon.

[@matthewcassem8359]

Spell casting rules say "BONUS ACTION A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of I action." PHB 203 This means you can quicken a cantrip, but if you wish to cast another spell, then it has to be another cantrip. I'm posting this because it's very efficient and it's important that spell casters know how their classes work. At (pick your melee class) 2/sorcerer 3 you can cast booming blade for weapon damage + 1d8 thunder and then quicken and hit em with it again. That's 2 weapon attacks and 2d8 thunder damage for the equivalent cost of a level 1 spell slot. The neat thing is when the cantrip becomes more potent, quickened spell becomes more efficient because then it becomes 2 weapon attacks + 4d8 or 6d8 thunder damage for the equivalent cost of a level 1 spell slot.

[@motymurm]

Actually, if you wish to use quicken to cast cantrip plus spell combo, it is irrelevant which of them is a proper action and which is a bonus, because there are no rules limiting order of action/bonus action unlike dual wielding-style attacks

[@haydenkelley7125]

You also can add action surge in and deal soo much damage for some sorcery points and an action surge.

[@AllThingsFascinate]

I don't think you can stack the boom on a single target, right?

[@Faircrow]

@@AllThingsFascinate if the target moves it takes just one of the damages, but the trigger damage is separeted for each atack

[@samouriyo5626]

Lol, im plaiyng a pal2/sorcerer 5 all build around this combo.

[@89kristianj]

i once used the fact that I was known to cast spells subtlely to deceive a boss to waste reactions and spell slots during a fight by use of deception

[@saparapatepete]

Brilliant!!!

[@jordanunderlife1941]

Quickened spell: action- health potion+bonus action- spell Subtle spell: can use if captured and tied up, also can still cast spells under the silence effect

[@Nurk0m0rath]

...does this mean you can Dispel the Silence?

[@SamanthaVimes177]

@@Nurk0m0rath RAW, absolutely.

[@noobhero7]

My Favorite Caster class in all of 5e is getting love from the Dungeon Dudes today? IT WAS MEANT TO BE!!!

[@shadenox8164]

Personally what I thought might have been cool is to allow sorcerers to change their metamagics on a long rest. Like the idea for me is that while the spells a sorcerer knows cannot change easily, how they're able to manipulate their spells can.

[@crodd92]

I can see a dragonborn sorcerer using quickened meta magic to cast a spell as a bonus action, then use his action to use his breath weapon

[@timpind.8237]

crodd92 Ooooo, I never thought about it that way!

[@puppetmaster1420]

Some kind of binding skill plus breath attack not fun for the target

[@johncunanan65]

Lol this was the way I played before my character tragically died.

[@SkyNinja759]

Burning hands then breath weapon. Essentially, the 2 for 1 KFC special.

[@PapaSmerf008]

I have homebrewed that each subclass is given a free metamagic option that matches the flavor of that origin. Divine gets careful, Draconic gets empowered, Shadow gets subtle, Storm gets extended, Wild Magic gets quickened (Matt Mercer's Runechild gets Distant). This leaves off Twinned which is probably the best one and Heightened which can't be used until you get 3 points.

[@DBebeful]

I really like your idea, it is a very flavorful homemade rule!

[@EchoMirage72]

Divine Soul already gets a metamagic feature at level 6 with Empowered Healing, which is just Empowered Spell, but for Healing only.

[@coreyrutherford7231]

I really like how you guys really go into detail and give your input based on your experiences. Thanks!

[@davidragan9233]

The Twinned Spell option reminded me, I could never figure out why Sorcerers only get Polymorph but not True-Polymorph.

[@AZDfox]

Twinned spell is incredible for a Divine Soul. I often twin Healing Word/Cure Wounds. I regularly save us from a tpk

[@deirakos]

subtle spell can save your (and your party's) hide when you are gagged and bound.

[@SkyNinja759]

Just remember to keep your arcane focus tucked away in your flesh pouch (either end) to be able to cast magic.

[@zorn3255]

Don't forget other situations where you might not be able to talk or move your hands, like: - Being in a Silence field. - While underwater (depending on your DM this might be valuable, I'd personally rule you can't hold your breath and talk underwater at the same time). - While grappling a target and holding something else, or grappling two targets (unlikely for a spellcaster, but still could come up).

[@Ablestron]

I was really excited by the prospect of a support sorcerer who could twin cast concentration spells. Twinning polymorph, haste, or greater invisibility is freaken ridiculously strong. And if you do so as a draconian sorcerer you'll be relatively hard to take down. Also the careful metamagic is super good for just a single sorcery point. You can do a cone of cold right on top your melee and only hit the enemies? freaken A+

[@AZDfox]

As a Divine Soul, I'm fond of twinning Shield of Faith. Giving 2 allies +2 ac for 1 minute is pretty good.

[@Swelephant_]

Divine Soul Sorcerers also get some pretty awesome touch based debuffs like “Bestow Curse” and “Contagion” are viable if you want to ruin someone’s day out of punching and stabbing range.

[@_bats_]

Honestly, I think sorcerers are just underpowered enough that I don't think it's too out of line to let them choose double the metamagic options, eventually unlocking all eight. The cost of using them is generally high enough, and some of the seemingly really powerful ones have some serious limitations, so giving more options with how to manipulate a relatively small list of known spells seems like a fair trade to me. I'd be comfortable making that homebrew call if someone wanted to play a sorcerer in my game.

[@coranbaker6401]

At least we have metamagic adept now.

[@メガスガミアス]

Also,the detect thoughts spell and subtle is a great combo,since basically you can always learn everyone's secret when you want

[@CbaWithEverything]

Also for subtle spell, you can cast magic from a zone of silence where magic would normally not be able to be cast, for those pesky people who prefer to use silence against enemy spell casters.

[@jakeholmes9296]

Great work. I love how you broke down such a complex part of the game so simply! Love your work Monty and Kelly

[@deanweir9023]

Quicken spell fireball. Following up with Eldritch Blast.

[@rpigulla]

I wonder if you can cast Mage Armor + Extended Spell before a long rest (if you have a Sorcery Point and Spell Slot left over) so you save a spell slot the next day? (For the first 8 hours anyway.)

[@btCharlie_]

I wanna do the very same thing with Aid as a Divine Soul. Have to consult with DM if it feels too cheesy, but so far I haven't run into anything that would prohibit it - it doesn't require concentration so consciousness shouldn't be an issue and it's definitely under 24 hours.

[@dxjxc91]

These should work RAW.

[@SkyNinja759]

To be fair. Mage armour has overlap with the Draconic Ancestry bloodline, so a lot of sorcerers overlook it. Other than that, RAW mage armour seems to be really nice in a squishy heavy campaign... and when you need to protect the cliche escort quest NPC.

[@Ker-f4o]

@@btCharlie_ Twinned Holy Weapon on your front liners would be useful to.

[@gabrielrockman]

It would work, but it's a waste to use your metamagic choice and a sorcery point to save yourself just a 1st level spell slot. If you were a Divine Soul Sorcerer with access to some much nicer spells with an 8 hour duration (like Aid), it could actually make sense to choose extended spell for your metamagic. But you need it to save you some higher level spell slots, and not just a 1st level spell slot.

[@scook9999]

You two nailed it, my thoughts and yours are identical. I'll give you my 2 coppers worth of extra tidbits......Distant Meta, if you are on the ocean and doing ship to ship combat, this will provide range for the sorcerer to snipe enemy ships. Twin spell and damage, Dragon's Breath in Xanathar's guide might be one of the best uses...load up them from line types and cross fire the bad guys.....uncommon, but fun. This also brings us to Careful Spell, decent, but situational. It is better, if you are throwing damage around, take two levels of wizard and specialize in Invoker, which gives you Sculpt Spell, which is Careful spell on Steroids for damage, and you get ritual spells of level 1, which is quite a number, so you won't necessarily miss that feat as much by multi-classing.

[@typoko]

I had Distance and Subtle for my divine soul sorcerer with 1 level of life cleric dip. Distance was really good for mass healing word, counterspell and dimension door. Subtle was mainly used for counterspell while in combat and outside of combat it's pretty nifty to be able to cast spells without people noticing.

[@jarodjagges599]

Interrogation with Detect Thoughts and Heightened spell is one of my favorite things to do. DMs and players alike usually forget how much impact that can have on a session and it's awesome to pull out of your back pocket. By the time they can resist with INT usually you can get what you need or even go again if they fail that contest.

[@kaemonbonet4931]

I have a dream of one day casting a delayed blast fireball and holding it for 2 minutes.

[@maid_of_heart3261]

The draconic dream

[@maid_of_heart3261]

As a suggestion for making it work: if you have a wizard in your party, forcecage or wall of force to trap your enemies while you hold the delayed blast and pray that they don't teleport out

[@kaemonbonet4931]

@@maid_of_heart3261 I've actually done the full minute once. I cast it out of sight and then went to parley with some illithids. I actually didn't take the metamagic to do the two minute thing on that character. But yeah I talked to them and deceived them into thinking I was gonna be reasonable, then they got 22d6's to the chin and realized that you don't negotiate with people who've bolted a crown onto their skull.

[@therubyblade196]

about distant spell: although it doesn't do damage, Plane shift is a touch spell. Using the banish effect of the spell, you could be say, 30ft away from a death tyrant or so, but you can still send it to the plane of fire

[@saparapatepete]

"you deserve to go to hell, so i'm sending you there"

[@Sedr1s]

Hi dudes, sorcerer main here. Love the video and you hit most of the things I know and some things I didn't know! I have a couple more tips, tricks and comments to add: Careful Spell + Sleep: (edit) as stated in a comment below, this does not actually work. Please disregard this portion of my comment. Distant Spell: Really good point about the ability to use buff touch spells at a distance, I have never put much stock in this but I've probably been overlooking it. I may just have to try this out next time I make a sorcerer! Empowered Spell: Good for blasters of course, but you trade away your ability to add another metamagic to your character sheet in return for reliable damage. I rate this one similar to heightened spell, it is good in general but if you want to get creative with your character it actually hinders that, I only recommend this metamagic for players who dislike the randomness and risk of dice. Also I really wish it worked for spells like Sleep and Color Spray, because they use dice too, but RaW doesn't allow it. Quickened Spell: You guys nailed this one, but I want to emphasize it. Absolutely right, no 2 spells in 1 turn and it's usually not worth the extra damage of a cantrip. But that's not what makes this metamagic cool. It's actually still really useful in lower tiers of play, because of the way it frees up your action to interact with objects, take the disengage, dodge or attack (shove, grapple, etc) actions, escape a grapple, do skill checks and more! It allows you to safely get out of range of an enemy and then still cast a powerful spell with that bonus action. This is actually really powerful in a game like D&D where the action economy can force you to choose between a safe or tactical action and casting a cool spell. Subtle Spell: Here's something really cool... Because it removes the verbal and somatic components, you can still cast spells while bound and gagged, or grappled. I've used this several times in Curse of Strahd to pull off some amazing tricks while the party was captured and restrained. Twinned Spell: Can be used for healing spells as much as buff and debuff spells. This only really applies for Divine Soul sorcerers or players who take Magic Initiate, but it's still worth noting. You mention that mileage may vary with the tradeoff between twinning spells and buying a spellslot, the major tradeoff is action economy again - you can cast the equivalent of 2 heal spells with one action. It's worth it sometimes to give up generating a spell slot in return for twinning a buff, debuff, or heal spell.

[@btCharlie_]

I have the same exact thought about Twinned spell. I'm actually playing an experimental paladin/divine soul multiclass (because our party doesn't have a dedicated healer I decided to try this out), and I'm thinking about taking Twinned spell for Haste (from OoV paladin) and Cure Wounds in combat, combined with Extended spell for stuff like Aid (cast it before long rest to get a free 8 hours buff when you wake up) and Aura of Vitality (doubling the healing potential). My other picks would be Quickened spell for that Extra Attack and a full action spell within a single turn, and a distant spell for the ranged Cure Wounds (but I already took Healing Word, so that's not needed I guess). What would you say?

[@Draeckon]

As written, Careful Spell doesn't work with Sleep. Careful Spell specifically states that it only makes it so that select targets automatically succeed on their saving throw against the spell. Sleep, however, does not involve a saving throw at all. The targets just fall asleep if their HP is low enough to be affected.

[@Sedr1s]

@@Draeckon *facepalm* oh indeed. Welp, I'll go and edit that out. Thanks for catching that for me!

[@bubbles9829]

For Subtle Spell it removes verbal or somatic components. If a spell uses both verbal and somatic components, it just removes one of them, not both.

[@foxoninetails_]

@@bubbles9829 Subtle Spell explicitly states that "When you cast a spell, you can spend 1 sorcery point to cast it without *any* somatic or verbal components". It has no stipulations about removing only one or the other - a spell with only verbal and somatic components requires no components whatsoever when used with Subtle Spell (RAW, at least).

[@Eramiserasmus]

Currently using Distant and Quickened Spell. Multiclassed into Rogue Inquisitve and have made Shadow Blade my preferred spell. Superior Arcane Trickster achieved.

[@thehiddenninja3428]

One of the best things to extend is things like Mage Armor. Increasing AC to 13 + dex for _16_ hours! If you cast is just before a long rest, it has the same effect as casting it normally when you wake up, but for free! no spell slots or points needed.

[@OrangeyChocolate]

Subtle Spell is also a perfect way to circumvent the effects of Silence, or to get around what I consider the greatest Achilles heel of spellcasters: being bound and gagged (so long as the spell doesn’t need material components). I’m working on a character right now that is a multiclass of rogue and sorcerer. Think of Corvo or Daud from Dishonored and you’re pretty much there.

[@chrisv.h.2307]

Subtle spell also allows you to cast spells with verbal components in areas of silence or while underwater. Those situations may not come up often in a lot of campaigns, but when they do subtle spell is a game-changer.

[@saparapatepete]

I am tempted on taking the metamagic adept feat for my arcane trickster for extra trickery, but i wonder if it's worth it with only 2 sorcery points.......

[@nickm9102]

​@@saparapatepetelittle late but yes it is and since you are a Rogue subtle and empowered sound like good choices since most of what you would want to do with Quicken is given to rogue as a BA option.

[@agilemind6241]

Heightened Spell always seemed like a good one to pick up at higher levels. Same with Quicken. Both are most useful once you've gotten higher level either save-or-suck spells for Heightened or concentration spells for Quicken. Though you guys made a good point about Quicken letting you do a lot of different things with your action like for instance run away while also casting a spell to prevent the baddies from chasing after you.

[@goofydragon8023]

Quickened also let's you take other actions to dash or disengage allowing you to get away from a melee attack and still get that spell attack

[@timpind.8237]

One of my first ever characters was a sorcerer, and I took Subtle and Twinned for my metamagics. I like to play support casters, and as such, I found myself almost always using Twinned Invisibility/Enhance Ability/Haste/etc., and we got a ton of good mileage out of it. Subtle Spell also saved our asses on more than one occasion, and even when it’s not a critical part of our interactions, it’s still always good to have around.

[@beepboprobotsnot3748]

6:55 1200 FEET! THAT'S INSANE! But you would probably never need that much range.

[@beepboprobotsnot3748]

Like at that point, you'd have make perception to even see the thing.

[@AaumondHD]

In a campaign with airship battles, or maybe naval battles, it might be useful. But even then, it seems *a bit* overkill

[@aldoushuxley5953]

Just be a sorlock with an invisible familiar you can See though. You are basically a Sniper Drone at this Point.

[@JayF2912]

@@aldoushuxley5953 mortar team with fireballs and lightninh

[@M0ebius]

Page 243 of the DMG says on a clear day you can see 2 miles or until your view is obscured by terrain features. In rain it’s 1 mile. In fog it’s 100-300ft. From an elevated position it’s 40 miles of visibility.

[@Burori1]

I just multiclassed into Divine Soul Sorcerer and I think, once I get to the level for Metamagic, I'll get Subtle and Twin Spell as my first pair of options.

[@groundswelllegitcoffeeandb3810]

Just one thing I feel was missed about the twinned spell... it's especially good early game to use with level 1 damage spells! The ability to use just one sorcery point to replicate a level one spell like chromatic orb, is especially good. Especially considering the economy of spell slots vs sorcery points... the math behind conversion simply values spell slots to be more valuable. So for just one sorcery point to be able to not just replicate a level one spell slot spell, but to also cast it as an additional attack on the same turn, is ridiculous to be able to do at level 3! The reason why I felt this was a notable consideration, is because this video only emphasized the benefit of twinning a buff spell like polymorph or haste, or emphasized how bad of a waste it would be to lose 6 sorcery points plus a level 6 spell slot for a spell that may inevitably miss, which I agree would suck, but the video missed the best use of twinned spell... the great economically efficient benefit of twinning level one damage spells as an additional attack at only level 3 Sorcerer!

[@jonnygrady9886]

Groundswell Legit Coffee and Board Games - Even Twin-spelling cantrips is worth it, particularly at 5th level and above. Remember, catrips often increase in damage as you level up! A fire bolt at levels 1-4 is only worth 1d10 damage, but at 5th level this turns into 2d10 damage, at 3d10 damage at 11th level. So twin-spelling a Fire bolt at 11th level can let you do up to 6d10 damage over the two targets, for the cost of just 1 sorcery point!

[@groundswelllegitcoffeeandb3810]

Jonny Grady Wow! That's dope! I never considered that!

[@AZDfox]

And Twinning Chill Touch lets you stop healing for 2 different targets. Which is sometimes better than damage.

[@elinamauno8833]

Thank you so much for this video! It was fun, and so informative for me as a sorcerer player :) I took twinned and quickened spell knowing very well I won't be using twinned spell too much until she gets Haste or Polymorph, as she has a high AC so I spend much more time quickening two Green-Flame Blades or a blast spell and going in for Green-Flame Blade.

[@CLSMandalore]

Kinda surprised you guys never mentioned Shadow Sorcerer's Hound, it's the same SP as Heightened spell and has the same effect plus some bonuses

[@DungeonDudes]

We actually did film a section on the unique powers of each subclass but the video was already running long, so we cut it :(

[@adriel8498]

I'm only gonna say. Distant + counter spell and twined + dispel. (I love your videos)

[@KyleKoz13]

Great video guys! The strategy breakdown at the end is very helpful. I love that kind of stuff.

[@sergioapreda9270]

A thing is not often mentioned with quickened spells is that it provides you a far better version of cunning action. A caster action is usually spent for .... well casting. Conversely bonus action options are usually scarse for casters, unless there is something baked in the class (like pet actions). Quickening a spell nets you a free action (dash, dodge, hide, attack, use object, cast cantrip). In this regard, it can be considered a very flexible and worthwile option even without taking into account all the boons already mentioned in the video. Anyway great content guys, keep it up Cheers!

[@Killstone12]

One great use of extended spell that you guys might not have mentioned is mage armor. Extending the duration from 8-16 hours on mage armor means that you can cast it when you wake up and pretty much permanently have a boost to your AC without having to worry about if it’s been 8 hours from dawn.

[@tylercole3738]

Unless you are a draconic bloodline sorcerer in which case Mage Armor is redundant

[@AbyssArray]

I feel like I'd want more out of my Metamagic than a level 1 spell slot saved, there's more enticing options depending on what you want to play. Also I feel like this probably drops off towards the higher levels, if you have leftover Sorcery Points or Level 1 spell slots at the end of the day.

[@AZDfox]

@@AbyssArray it's especially good for Divine Souls, because many Cleric spells last an hour, and doubling that could make a huge difference

[@AbyssArray]

@@AZDfox I mean what spells would you end up taking? What's your role for your team? And how does Extended Spell play into it? Those are always the tough questions when DS Sorc is involved (and probably changes from campaign to campaign). I can see level 1 slots going up in value (access to Guiding Bolt, Healing Word, Cure Wounds, Bless, etc) but it's probably best used for RP sessions, where breaking the flow of the session by casting a spell would raise suspicion. But there's a lot of spells that look more situational which may be harder to take.

[@alexanderoakland2607]

I used extended spell on a support/control type Divine Soul sorcerer to cast a (whatever max level spell slot I had at the time) 16 hour Aid on my party before taking a long rest during a campaign, and it made a huge difference to our survivability

[@kirssta8706]

This is very helpful, thanks. I’ve recently made a Sorcerer, but haven’t had a chance to play her yet. It’s great to be familiar with meta magic before I have to make any of these decisions.

[@crimfan]

Quickened is also good for putting down a teetering foe or use some kind of damage+control cantrip, such was Shocking Grasp (to let you not get AoOed) or Chill Touch (to prevent a foe healing).

[@johnnyv9024]

For a Sorcadin multiclass, quicken is amazing. Quicken hold person, and if they fail their save then super smite (because crits) them to death

[@crimfan]

@@johnnyv9024 That's a good example.

[@AbyssArray]

@@johnnyv9024 Quickened Greater Invis could also work, get advantage and smack em hard

[@jtothek93]

Currently playing as a Divine Soul support caster with twin and extend. Extend has been amazing to use on the Aid spell. Every night before my character goes to bed if he has the spell slot and sorcery point he says an extra prayer and and casts an extended Aid to give my party of 3 all bonus hp/max hp for 16 hours. Then he goes to bed, gains that spell slot and point back and there's still roughly 8hrs left on the buff that was essentially free.

[@AZDfox]

If you take the last guard shift, and cast it RIGHT before the long rest ends, you can get 16 hours of use, and still not waste a slot.

[@VioletMoonfox]

I've seen a party that was 4 rogues and a sorcerer. Really odd, because they had to do some funny stuff for some encounters, but the sorc took careful spell, and...well, Evasion is a thing.

[@MRCPJ1984]

Hey guys, I’ve just been listening to this for the second time - long time fan of your videos. So weird today with the UK in lockdown. Went for my ‘one allowed exercise’ with my little girl in the pram to get her to sleep. Loved the video, you fellas have been so integral at reeling me back into D&D - the school that I teach at now has 2 D&D groups and the students love it. Thanks again.

[@lord6617]

There should be a feat option, allowing you to add a metamagic to your list of known, and also use it on a L1-3 spell 1/ long rest.

[@snarwhal]

I’m from the future, And I have news for you, You’re not gonna believe this…

[@blinkonceonsunday1325]

Subtle Spell is also a good way to role-play a psionic character, especially for Aberrant Mind Sorcerers.

[@MrJethroha]

One homerule I like is to give sorcerers a couple sorcery points back per short rest, say equal to CHA mod or proficiency bonus. So far as I know, sorcerers are the only full caster which receive 0 resources back on a short rest. Metamagic is pretty much Sorcerers only unique feature, so in my opinion they should be using it all the time.

[@shadenox8164]

Yep, well there's warlocks, but they can use their invocations ad infinium so its not like they need to. Plus the thing sorcerer's do eventually get is at level bloody twenty and only four points at which point is barely anything.

[@M0ebius]

I like that home rule, but it does make the Sorcerer capstone utter garbage.

[@shadenox8164]

@@M0ebius The capstone was already utter garbage for a level 20 thing so no real loss.

[@M0ebius]

Shade Nox I don’t disagree. I’m just saying if you homebrew the point recovery, then you should probably redo the capstone as well.

[@shadenox8164]

@@M0ebius Oh for sure. Surprised they haven't done any official changes yet. They have for other classes. Its kinda silly as level a 20.

[@issaikh]

Another valuable part of subtle spell is that it can be used to gain the upper hand in mage duels. Disabling the ability of other casters to counterspell you means that if applied to counterspell itself, opponents cannot counter your counterspells.

[@adude235]

Just found you guys and fell in love with the content. Perhaps a few compliments and critiques? Extremely professional! Very knowledgeable about what you're talking about! A lot of charisma. Incredibly smooth editing! Honestly my only criticism is that your hand movements sometimes become repetitive and can be distracting. Ultimately didn't take away from my enjoyment and learning, but it could be easily improved by varying the way your hands move. Really enjoyed the vid! Subbed!!

[@tytusjordan1312]

I remember when we were waiting for our contact in a room and Bard realized he forgot to buy something. I excused myself for a moment, flipped birds with a Barbarian and came back with a thing after using 2 Distant Dimension Doors. One of my favorite Metamagic combos

[@fishinatube9028]

Actually I once had a sorcerer twin a disintegrate, one-shoting an entire miniboss encounter of two wraiths.

[@RoninRaconteur]

Planning on playing a sorcerer so this was a very needed video for me since I've never played one before. Thanks guys!

[@jonnygrady9886]

I’d like to add that even using Twinned Spell for damage dealing cantrips can be an efficient use of Sorcery points, particularly at higher levels. Remember cantrips often increase in damage as you level - I think a *lot* of players forget this. For instance, at 5th level a firebolt deals 2d10 damage; at 11th level a firebolt deals 3d10 damage. If you Twin-Spell a firebolt at 11th level, you can potentially deal an insane 6d10 damage (across the two targets) for the cost only 1 solitary sorcery point! So, for literally half the cost of a First level Spell, you can deal 4d10 damage by 5th level, 6d10 by 11th level and, if you’re really game, 8d10 by 17th level, all in one round. Of course, the down sides are that (1) this damage has to be split across two targets and (2) if an attack misses or the target saves, there is no ‘half-damage on a successful save’ as you often get for true levelled spells.

[@AZDfox]

And if you cast Chill Touch, you can stop all healing for 2 targets as well as damage them.

[@jimcree3283]

I think I’d prefer to quicken Edritch Blast and hit 1-4 targets up to 8 at 17th level

[@destroyerinazuma96]

Good job! I'll just like to add that Heightened Spell can stack with Wild Mage's Bend Luck and spells such as a Bane. Meaning that if you absolutely need a spell to strike home, it is possible to spend 5 Sorcery points and inflict both Disadvantage and -1d4 to the enemy's roll, which an active Bane would reduce by another 1d4. It's also possible to use Portent or Lucky, though I know some GMs prohibit them.

[@snowene]

Silence + subtle spell. Knock out the enemy caster ability to cast most things, but still be able to cast yourself.

[@jonnygrady9886]

snowene - I’m glad someone has pointed this out! However it does require somebody to be able to keep the enemy spell caster within the zone of Silence as well. It also works well as a defensive tactic if Silence is cast at you.

[@gregoryfloriolli9031]

It’s good that Kelly played through a Sorcerer in your online campaign and can speak to all of this through his own practical experience. I’ve seen too many guides online where people are just theory crafting.

[@mortisvult2658]

Now I see how Overlord’s meta magic was created

[@thewalt200]

Honestly, I don’t exactly know what I’m going to choose for my tabaxi stone sorcerer just yet, but I will definitely be taking empowered spell! This guide helped so much and I had moments of “well I think this would fit my character well in this situation”. So thank you so much for this guide!

[@SchadDad]

I feel like I've got so many characters on standby but never get to play any of them :(

[@Feniel_]

I have a Goblin sorcerer Who uses subtle spell frequently because there are a lot of times where somatic and verbal weren't an option (like being tied up,gagged,etc) and it's just so useful and lets me save my self and the party from some situations like me being grappled or us being kidnapped

[@roamingthereal4060]

Twinned spell's ability to double concentration is tiers above all other metamagic.

[@shuzzlinreader5339]

I think a lot of people misread careful spell’s description to just mean their allies are automatically fine or just homebrew it that way. Cudos for pointing out the real RAW text

[@davewilson13]

Interesting Twin Spell - last night I ruled “incorrectly” with a Magic Missile that was only one missile, and I let them do it.

[@ronn-ammon8975]

David Wilson : I was actually thinking I disagree wit The Dudes on this one. It says the spell cannot target more than one being at the spells "CURRENT level" right? Well even though a spell like Magic Missile has the potential for multiple targets at higher levels, if the low, "current " level of that spell at 1st level, is a single targeting spell; then by strict adherence tothe wording of the rule, it would be (currently) eligible.

[@obsolete18]

Ronn -Ammon lvl 1 magic missile shoots 3 darts which can all target different creatures

[@ronn-ammon8975]

obsolete18 : Thanks.👍🏻👍🏽👍🏿I must'' ve had my head in a previous edition when I wrote that.

Hi. Sooo, thanks for sharing this video. I'm afraid though there are several shortcomings in your analysis. 1. Careful spell: it can be much more useful than you let it know actually. On damage spells, yeah those usually have damage on save, so that applied on Fireball or the like is definitely not for every party. However, many classes have ways to reduce damage (Rogue/Monk Evasion, Nature's Cleric reaction, Bear Barbarian, Absorb Elements) in addition to the possibility of loading Absorb Elements into Rings for friends. So you can effectively reduce damage to 1/4. Which brings to the true benefit: maximizing that AOE thanks to the bait effect: having one or two frontliners that "seemingly" went ahead of their allies and got isolated means many melee enemies will try and gangbang them, so your ally acts as a concentration point to gather 4, 5 sometimes even more enemies whereas otherwise those would stay scattered, making AOE much harder to use. Making this even truer for effect spells. Web, Stinking Cloud, Sleet Storm, Fear, Tidal Wave are all cheap spells that can really change dynamics even with just a single round (re: Tidal Wave: most melee PC people I play with don't care about being hurt for 10 points when all enemies around are proned right in time for their turn). The only real problem of Careful spell is the stupid (and I really mean that) Crawford tweet that twists RAW. Hopefully few people use it. 2. Distant spell First, there ARE spells for which range is doubled: there are not many sadly, but they exist. Notably Feather Fall (all your party is not always grouped ^^), Thunder Step (doubling distance is not always useful, but you're glad you have it in those situations), Mass Suggestion or Telekinesis for the most notable ones (don't remember all, but there are like a small dozen). Second, and that's the incredibly good selling point of Distant you sadly missed: NO FRIGGING COUNTERSPELL. Read the Sorcerer's spell list, and notice how many great spells have a 60 feet range, which is also the range for Counterspelling: Levitate, Hold Person, Dominate, Finger of Death, Phantasmal Force, Mind Spike... Third, it makes 30 feet range spells far easiest to use and maintain: you have a great number of them that are great either to buff or debuff, but 30 feet means you have to come awfully close to the frontline especially on the debuff side: melee enemies may reach you on their turn, you're certainly in range of thrown weapons and ranged attacks, meaning more chance to lose concentration, even though you're a Sorcerer. As for buffs, Touch-based especially, I'd like to stress that DIstant makes them much easier to use than you say, because most of those upcast. And upcasting a "Touch" spell in hostile environment means you'd have to cluster up, which is never a good idea. FInally, regarding the maximized Eldricht Blast: you don't build that "just in case", you pick that to make your character around it: as long as you're in an open world, you can find a good dozen of ways to make your character use it regularly. 3. Empowered. Nothing to add. ;) 4. Extended: you nailed it overall: it's indeed great for strategic parties that like to try and bring fights into selected places with traps/ambushes, for which having twice as long a duration gives a lot of error margin. It's easiest indeed to pick the most spells synergizing as a Divine Soul Sorcerer. But I'd like to stress some other things. - For a manipulator, extending Suggestion and Detect Thoughts only completely changes the dynamic and effects, because there are many more things you can try and ask. - When you need to buff several members, saying that "it just avoids using two casts" is utterly underselling it. Case in point: you are a classic 4-people party. You need to get by a dangerous area and don't want any fight, so you expect you can map, loot and cross it sneakily with an Invisibility, but it will certainly take more than one hour. Upcasting that one for 4 people is using a 5th level spell. Congrats, you spent 1 ki to spare 7. - When some allies need to get onto missions solo, it gives them a much larger operative time without you needing to stick with them (like your Rogue pal sent to infiltrate a castle and identify targets and weak points so you can later set a strategy). 5. Heightened: you paint it darker than needed. It's clearly not a pick for level 3 choice until you're a fairly experimented player, but it's very solid for a level 10 one for anyone. You don't need to metamagic, your character can just spend downtime to study creatures, or go spy on them and make Arcana/History/Religion checks as needed. Overall only Constitution and Strengh saves are constantly good or better on monsters. INT is very rarely above 1, DEX is variable but not high until CR 10 creatures, and even WIS is not that high for a good while. Also, while it's obviously better used on single-target damage, it's still worth using on AOE. Because nothing is more frustrating than unleashing a Slow/Hypnotic Pattern/Fear "because I really want to nail THAT guy, but there is a group of enemies so I might as well try and get them too even if they are somewhat inconsequent in comparison" (or maybe you just don't have any relevant single target spell ^^).. And see THAT guy make the save. 6. Quickened: fully agree, people really underestimate the power of being able to use repeatable spells or any regular action on top of still casting a spell (with the not least application being Dodging to maintain a spell, or using a potion on an ally). :) 7. Subtle: fully agree. Also, don't forget the "cast while gagged" or even better "cast underwater" which is life-saving and hilarious at the same time. :). Nor forget the "you just CAN'T COUTERSPELL ME MWHAHAHAHA"... Or the "look, that guy is a spellcaster" (when it's actually the gal 10 meters away, who just coordinated with the guy so that while she Subtle cast he makes movements to make believe). 8. Twin: overall agree, it's a bit sad you gave some "wrong" examples although you correct it later namely all 2nd level spells that can also be upcast, with Invisibility and Enhance Ability among those you named. You spare 1 SP compared to just upcasting it to affect two creatures. It can be better sometimes to keep those 3rd level slots, but it's not coming that often. And that's something MANY people tend to forget: many good spells Sorcerer can learn are "target-upcastable", so you really have to do the maths on your favorite spells to see, for only two creatures, whether it's better to upcast or use Twin. (From my experience, it's usually better to Twin over upcast only if base spell is 4th level or higher). Otherwise, a very solid metamagic but one which cost ramps up steeply. I'd rather keep it for a 10th level choice unless, like for Heightened, you're an experienced player. Because it's with higher-level spells that you spare the most using twin instead of upcasting (if even possible). Anyways, nice video overall, nice presentation. Have a nice day. :)

[@devin5201]

I killed a troll.

[@Hyperpandas]

...and I liked it! But his breath smelled like Jerry's backpack. :(

[@snarglblargn4986]

@@Hyperpandas I GOT IT

[@lynettemalice8110]

Divine Soul extending Aid before a long rest though. Then also using Hero’s Feast. Really useful 🥰

[@AcSlaytah56]

Hey, twinned spell. I argue dragons breath works. When you cast the spell it can only ever target one creature similar to haste.

[@dxjxc91]

I have a character concept for a kobold dragon blood sorcerer who does exactly this.

[@M0ebius]

Not legal according to Sage Advice but I ran it for awhile twinning it on party members’ Owl and Imp familiar that took turns firing the cone straight down from 15ft in the air to cover 9x9 squares. It was completely broken in the early levels, and even in tier 2 play it was insanely strong and virtually replaced every other AOE options.

[@dxjxc91]

@@M0ebius I couldn't find anything in the SA compendium. Which part are you saying is illegal? The twinning or the cone from above?

[@M0ebius]

dxjxc91 Twin. www.google.com/amp/s/www.sageadvice.eu/2018/12/22/is-is-possible-to-twin-spell-booming-blade/amp/

[@jasonbolding3481]

@@M0ebius interestingly that never made it into sage advice compendium, which now is the officially rulings

[@davidriggs538]

Oh good! I've been really wanting you to make this one. Sweet!

[@cameronscott9399]

Sorlock, quickened spell. Witch bolt. Need I say more

[@derekbrogan5008]

So Palpatine?

[@GoblinLord]

Enemies: (pass their twinned disintegrate saves) Sorcerer: (6th level slot and 6 sorcery points lost) I'm never going to financially recover from this

[@Greginda11]

distant spell and subtle spell on counterspell makes you the ultimate counter speller. Take 2 levels in bard and Bam; Cha mod + 1/2 prof and they will never be able to counter spell your counterspell.

[@jamesgrant3752]

Abjuration wizard add their whole proficiency bonus and hence would counterspell your bards counterspell.

[@Greginda11]

@@jamesgrant3752 subtle spell is unseen within 60 ft and distant spell makes yours out of range upto 120 ft.

[@jamesgrant3752]

Correct. I wasn't thinking about the metamagics for some reason when posted this. I was only worried about pointing out that abjurers get better counterpells than bards. Lol.

[@jamesgrant3752]

Infact my current favorite build is a 14 abjurer, 5 divine soul, 1 any warlock for armor of agathys and hellish rebuke. Quicken and subtle for metamagics. Character is awesome.

[@Kipex]

Posted the same to another one suggesting distant spell and counterspell, but it doesn't work: You need to cast a spell to be able to use the metamagic, and to be able to cast Counterspell, they already have to be within 60 feet.

[@meadorsmusic17]

Multiclassing sorcerer and warlock and taking quickened spell is so good. Using eldritch blast as your main action can be pretty darn good, especially with bonus eldritch invocations. Witch Bolt is also a phenomenal spell for this, because as they described, it’s one of the “additional action” type spells they mentioned, which is just flat out extra damage. So honestly, Sorlocks with quickened spell can be so good.

[@FLEASPIRIT13]

Just take a familiar.... no need for distant metamagic...my divine soul sorcerer uses his owl familiar to heal the party “on the fly”😆

[@AZDfox]

I do the same.

[@theonlymatthew.l]

I have employed that tactic myself. But what are you going to do if someone shoots an arrow and kills your spell delivering Owl?

[@Nilandia]

Speaking as a player of a Divine Soul, Twinned Spell is amazing. So many spells that benefit incredibly from it. Not only can you twin healing spells, but there are a lot of buffs that are extremely good when twinned. Death Ward is a particular favorite. And let me tell you, twinned resurrection spells are a thing of beauty. My level 11 Divine Soul recently poured all of her spell slots and sorcery points into casting Resurrection, and was able to bring back 10 people per day after a large scale battle. Even a level 20 cleric can't do so much. My campaign is much more social and exploration than combat, so I didn't see the value in Quickened Spell as much. However, I'm starting to warm up to it, especially since I'm coming to love Telekinesis since it's an ability check rather than a save. For the next combat, I pland to get the Warlock to Hex for strength, restrain the target with Telekinesis for a few rounds while the party beats down on it, then quicken a Disintegrate to turn it to ash. Since Telekinesis restrains the target, it gets disadvantage on the Dex save to evade the Disintegrate.

[@kairunelastreeper]

The meta magic I want is "store spell" allowing an object you touch to hold a spell for x amount of time, and released by a predetermined trigger like when damaged, damaging something, an action like rubbing or twisting, a phrase, etc. Also all effects happen at the location of the triggered object. So a rock with fireball stored in it will go off at the location of the rock. As for cost, I think 1 per spell level would be appropriate or 2 per level if this metamagic seems too effective. I see how it could impose on subtle spell or other meta magics.

[@JelenedraKTulsa]

What you are wanting here is the cleric spell Glyph of Warding. (I think that is the name). You're not going to get a meta magic that replicates a third level spell that requires a bunch of diamond dust to cast.

[@justinpedrazaful]

They completely missed a gem that you can use distant spell on and that's Counterspell

[@adrianmalinowski1073]

23:10 detect thots: my favourite spell

[@caiosergio5775]

I reccomend banishing to the Shadowrealm anything that happens to give a positive signal to this spells

[@YoungTroy23]

One of my favorite Metamagics to use is empowered spell combined with Chaos Bolt(my character is a wild magic sorcerer with an extended spell list and it his signature spell). It really increases the chance to get that bounce astronomically, making it my go to when my companions are stuck in and I can’t use area effect spells.

[@TheHakeemx1]

When you realize that you can twin spell Dragon's breath and the errata is in your favor. "time to hand out double breath weapons and cross the beams.

[@corwyncorey3703]

“It would be bad to cross the streams...” “Define bad, Egon.”

[@joak9992]

Twin dragon's breath is very useful for hoard clearing

[@keithcortez5929]

Read the errata on twinned spell late. Was causing 100+ damage (2 crits, had advantage) on twinned agonizing blast + quickened agonizing blast at lv7. Good thing the DM asked me to look it up once more.