How is the "Gay Gene" alive? Evolutionary Biologist Richard Dawkins Explains

[@andreglenn74]

I’m a gayy uncle and I helped my sister to raise my nephew, since he was 6 months old. He is 24 Now and I helped him troughout his life, cuz his father was somewhat absent and irresponsible. I’m a doctor, widower since 2018, and never thought about having children, but the circunstances made me step up and help the kid.

[@joshuarock4631]

I’m a gay uncle and trans , my family passed it’s just me and my lil brother I’m helping my brother raise my nieces , best gift to me is family

[@grumblydoore8551]

@@joshuarock4631natural selection brother

[@braddo7270]

@@joshuarock4631 so you're a straight aunt. Stop it.

[@braddo7270]

@@joshuarock4631 straight aunt* 🫡

[@lawrencefrost9063]

Very cool. You did the right thing.

[@yueyjon4422]

Homosexuality has existed throughout all of history, in every culture and across many many other species. It’s a reality that only religious people refuse to accept. However being religious is a choice whereas sexuality is not. The world needs to wake up to who’s the problem.

[@robertmarks8701]

I'd be very interested to hear the evidence that homosexuality occurs in species other than we humans. That assertion has been made time after time with absolutely no scientific evidence in support. I'm not denying the existence of homosexuality, of course.

[@tw8464]

You're absolutely right. The sectarian fundamentalist extremists have it all wrong like many other things

[@embreis2257]

how true. we may have changed a lot of laws recently in many countries correcting some of the worst discrimination. unfortunately however, this is the rare case where the law is far ahead of the general population because the mores and moral views of large parts of the population are still very much formed by anachronistic dogmas rooted in religions. we need to teach everyone that these views cannot be aligned with our modern constitutions in liberal democracies. therefore all that religious stuff has no place in education/schools and children should be taught to ignore it.

[@fernandofreitas2615]

Outside of rape and maybe heavy coercion having sex is a choice. I'm still young and unmarried and refrain from sex, despite offers (some really tempting) and my desires. I have a physical desire to have multiple partners, a harem, I guess. We see way more examples of dominant males having exclusive sexual access to multiple females in the animal kingdom than we see of homosexuality, probably because homosexuality doesn't result in reproduction. Multiple wives/concubines existed in more primitive as well as more advanced societies. But I don't think that is a truly good situation for me, my possible family, and society in general so I just repress and control my desires. I hope people choose to be like me and not be promiscuous, having multiple partners. Otherwise why would promiscuous people complain about muslim men asking to be legally married to up to the 4 wives the quran allows them? Promiscuous people would spread STDs and these muslim families wouldn't if the men and their multiple wives are faithful. High promiscuity is the main reason STDs like AIDS became a serious problem decades ago up until today.

[@symbionese2348]

I am religious and I accept the reality of Gay people. I had better, since I am Gay. And our priest is Gay and several members of the parish, prominent pillars. What do you make of that?

[@agunaboumuzocha7872]

Nobody is going to comment on how great Richard looks for an 83- year old? Edit: I'm talking about the beginning monologue where he said he was 83; I know the interview is significantly older.

[@richardwhitfill7573]

He looks younger than 83

[@ReligionsFakten]

Fame and money does alot

[@erikwillemcoenen7473]

He could run for president in the USA.

[@Albisriede]

Nobody comments on his age because the talk is not about how old he is. Got it?

[@BartMesser-n1c]

No because he’s a man and I’m a man. You think I’m gay?😂

[@johnwilliamtuckey2796]

I am a gay Uncle also the youngest of 4 siblings 3 boy's 1 girl . My oldest brother's son divorced and received custody of his two boy's when the boy's were 7 and 8 yrs old. I at that moment stopped working and for 10 year's went to his house at 6:30 am so he could go to work. Feed them breakfast and walk them to school; pick them up after school did their wash and looked after them till my nephew got home. Out of all the things I've done in my life; living in France for 10 year's and traveling. Taking care of those two boy's was the most rewarding thing I have done in my life. Michael the oldest will be turning 20 this week and going into junior year of college. Jack will be going off to be a freshman in college. They call me Gruncle. Thank you for your research.

[@XPRT10R]

Did you not have a job/career of your own?

[@SludgeMan90]

​@@XPRT10RGay people shouldnt work. They should only be gay uncles.

[@thorunnsleight4199]

What's with all the extraneous apostrophes, John? It's weird!

[@XPRT10R]

@@thorunnsleight4199 to indicate plural's

[@AtanuKDey]

@@XPRT10R Yup, boy's will be boy's, as they say 😉

[@brober]

Calvin Kleins are undisputably Gay jeans.

[@gregpendrey6711]

Your dog is 😂. Now stop. I give.

[@tommymarco]

lol !!!!!

[@PrivateSi]

Calvin Klein's jeans are clearly bisexual, like his genes. Some may claim he's fully gay now but if you've done both you're Bi for life.

[@dalecooper9942]

😂😂😂

[@azkbyzk]

Of course

[@rae0521]

I've had two friends who were gay. One from Uruguay who couldn't understand why we in Canada needed to have separate bars and clubs for gay people. It seems where he came from there was, or still is, a "culture" that fostered an inclusive atmosphere for all people. Another fellow was from somewhere in India. He fully expected that he would go "home" and then get married and have children. Even so, he fully expected to continue his gay relationships as well. At 85, and "gay" from age of puberty, I tried the hetero lifestyle with a female wife. We played house for 4 years until it became too obvious that neither of us was getting out of life what we wanted. I then found a male partner with whom I've enjoyed 48 years and counting. Hopefully, in another 100 years, we humans will have evolved to simply stop ASSUMING some fictitious "norm" and, instead, EXPECT people to be DIFFERENT... and celebrate that diversity.

[@hamag1973]

You are blessed. I only managed close to 13 years with my ex. We still love eachother, but as friends. My dream since young years was a life long relationship. But I am now 50 and I have lost all hope of ever be in a relationship again. But I have accepted that and I feel ok with just me and my cat😊

[@rae0521]

@@hamag1973 "...now 50" - you're still a kid! Be sure to stay involved in activities with others... even if you tend to be a recluse like my partner are. We love our privacy and peace and quiet. No guarantees, of course, but if you stay "on the market" - meaning out of the house and active with others - it's entirely possible "Mr. Right" will magically appear. Best of luck!

[@TheChippewa77]

. Not a fictitious norm. There seems that everyone is crawling out from one of the rocks to validate aberrant behavior. I apply your Indian friend. At least keep that nonsense in the closet

[@peterdejong5456]

It does not make sense to celebrate diversity if you don't know it's purpose. Diversity is only there where it is advantageous to nature. Where it is not, nature eradicates it before you can blink an eye.

[@normanmazlin6741]

There is no "fititious norm". The norm describes the majority, the central area under the Bell Curve of human sexual proclivity. When will those who are outliers under the Bell Curve wake up to that reality?

[@brianmetcalf9050]

Homosexuality has been found to be present in other species, not just humans. The evolutionary explanation should therefore exclude any human specificity. Homosexual behavior has been observed in numerous animal species across the animal kingdom, indicating that same-sex interactions are not exclusive to humans. Some notable examples include: 1. Mammals: • Bonobos: Known for their high levels of sexual activity, bonobos engage in same-sex interactions as a way to establish social bonds and reduce tension. • Dolphins: Both bottlenose and other species of dolphins have been observed engaging in homosexual behavior, including genital stimulation and social bonding through sexual play. • Lions: Male lions often engage in same-sex interactions, which can help strengthen social bonds within a pride. 2. Birds: • Gulls and Albatrosses: Some species of gulls and albatrosses have been observed forming same-sex pair bonds, often raising chicks together. • Parrots: Various species of parrots display homosexual behavior, including courtship and mating rituals between same-sex individuals. 3. Reptiles: • Some lizards and snakes have shown same-sex mounting behaviors, often as part of dominance displays or social interactions. 4. Insects: • Certain species of fruit flies and ants exhibit homosexual behavior, which can serve various social or reproductive functions within their colonies. 5. Fish: • Species like clownfish and some wrasses have shown same-sex pairing and courtship behaviors, particularly in environments where opposite-sex partners are scarce. These behaviors can vary widely in form and function, from social bonding and hierarchy establishment to reproduction and parenting. The prevalence of homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom highlights the diversity of sexual behaviors in nature.

[@etiennedeklerk]

Good point. Do we know if the gay ratio is the same amongst species? If not then human specificity may play a role. Some arbitary aspect specific to humans (e.g. diet during pregancy) might skew the numbers. #notAdoctor

[@lolabear3230]

I think it's only in penguins and humans

[@olenabutriy2403]

In nature, there is huge gender diversity: (a) switching between two genders, (b) one gender only, (c) both genders in one organism, (d) four genders. However, it essentially concerns the simpler en evolutionary older species.

[@caleidoo]

@@lolabear3230 You're joking, right? It's basically everywhere, except insects.

[@majesticpictures5715]

That's a lie. Homosexuality is anti-evolution and anti-nature. And penguins are not gay, we just projected our meanings on their behaviors.

[@rick-hm9lv]

Like many other gay men and women, I've known that I was gay from as far back as I can remember. It's just always been in my psyche. I have, however, met gay men who state emphatically that they didn't realize they were gay until their teens or even later in their lives. I do take exception with the idea that gay men can be recognized by the fact that they're effeminate. I have never been effeminate in any way

[@LonelyCinderella123]

Prepubescent children don't really have a sexuality. A feeling you were different isn't the same as knowing you were homosexual. Memories aren't very reliable and even more so when going all the way back to childhood. Every time we remember something we rewrite it so it changes as time goes by. Nobody knows they're gay when they're still a toddler.

[@DisposableSupervillainHenchman]

Yeah I find the effeminate thing annoying. Masculine or just bro gays are so often hated on by the… obviously gay. They claim the other gays have advantages because they are “passing”, or that they’re “performatively straight”, or whatever else nonsensical crap is spewed today. Some gays work a 9 to 5 have a dog a partner, and they don’t make their orientation the primary aspect of their personality.

[@Richie_Alpha_Rabbit69]

Men or woman can be turned gay. Look at jails and prisons. Or some trauma can cause it. It’s harder to get rid of your original sexuality though because men will usually still have attraction to women so they become BI I suppose you could say due to some factors

[@sarah2go]

And effeminate men are not necessarily gay, anyway.

[@djhutcherson6761]

I feel the same way. I knew I thought certain boys at school were cute and even had "crushes" on some of them as early as the first grade. I didn’t understand why I had those feelings, but I did feel ashamed and guilty because I knew I wasn't supposed to like other boys like that. I think there are likely multiple factors that come into play regarding not just the causes of homosexuality, but also the origin, development and timing in a persons life when they begin to notice those feelings. I have also never had any effeminate mannerisms, and I have always wondered what makes some gay guys act more effeminate than others.

[@gungaldin]

I'm a straight left handed male, had seven siblings all straight and right handed. That was a fascinating interview. As a six year old I had a teacher who would hit my left hand with a steel rule to try and force me to be right handed. At 65 I'm still left handed. Had I had the same treatment to force me to be gay I would still be straight. Are my genes responsible for this? This question was the basis of your interview and it remains unanswered. I believe it should remain so. Richard, I am a fan of yours and wish you all the best. Kind regards, Magnus.

[@Otis-m6p]

I wonder if the shitty actions of your teacher led to you being more adept with your right hand?

[@etcwhatever]

You know that being left handed means your Brain is wired differently in some área; right? It could be the same for homossexuality i guess

[@daodejing81]

All I know is that my sexual orientation has always been present. It is unchangeable. If it were changeable, there would be no homosexuals.

[@peterabell9698]

That's not true. I would not change and my friends would not either. I love being myself and if I were given the opportunity to be straight....hell no!

[@daodejing81]

@@peterabell9698 So you can change your sexual orientation? I think not.

[@MarkWhitman-q3l]

@@peterabell9698 good for you I feel the same way

[@daodejing81]

You misread Cannot

[@terrorbilly5000]

​@@peterabell9698That's what he said.

[@janinebjorkman5540]

It's awful watching the camera swinging back and forth every time the speaker changes.

[@adventurer3645]

It is. It's awful watching the camera swinging back and forth every time the sneaky fucking speaker changes.

[@jamescampbell5474]

I believe it’s because it is raw footage from a documentary that would have been cut up and edited

[@SergeDuka]

@@jamescampbell5474 To film raw footage, it's way more convenient to put separate cameras facing each speaker. After that, it's easy to pick pieces from each raw footage, depending on who's talking.

[@kendelvalle8299]

I had a gay uncle. He was a professor at the University of Chicago. He was my intellectual mentor.

[@alkintugsal7563]

Nice

[@col8547]

The "gay activist" is oh so wrong about the extent of bisexuality amongst men, its a prevalent trait possibly as much as purely straight men from my almost 70 year experience. He seems to be indulging in wishful thinking and I say that as a solely gay man.

[@welshbikepackingadventures]

Totally agree!

[@etcwhatever]

There's more bissexuals than homossexuals either male or female

[@welshbikepackingadventures]

@@etcwhatever I agree again! As a bi myself

[@miamiman196]

I think that's wishful thinking within the gay community. Gay men want to believe that every other man is either gay or bisexual. That is simply not true. Gay and bisexual men are a small minority of the male population.

[@haukenot3345]

There is a certain amount of biphobia in queer spaces, so maybe he really doesn't know many bi people. Also, bi people tend to get overlooked when they are in stable monogamous relationships. Who you'd be with if it weren't for your current partner isn't exactly a topic for small talk.

[@runnermcturtle5893]

What I did not find in the conversation was an obvious observation that homosexuality is not homogeneous. There is an entire spectrum of homosexuality. This way it is very likely that it is caused by many genes and their combinations with other genes.

[@monicadaniels784]

It seems to me to make more sense to speak of spectrum of sexuality rather than the neat little boxes that they seem to be using. Without the negative social consequences of same sex behavior, I think there might be more of a situation like ancient Greece where sexual expression was more varied.

[@IbnRushd-mv3fp]

Cope, we all know now its a consequence of high standards of living.

[@Gerald-r1l]

I fully agree. The entire human makeup is a spectrum from heterosexual to bisexual to homosexual with all sorts of variations along the spectrum. Why can't we simply accept this and be joyful of all types of diversity? See my comments one day later than yours remarking about the effect of mother's hormones during pregnancy. Could be?

[@SNP2082]

Research basically did show that sexuality is influenced by hundreds and possibly thousands of genes making it extremely polygenetic.

[@brob9995]

@@Gerald-r1l Would you be joyful about pedophiles? Isn't it a type of diversity?

[@alexanderlehner1849]

Listening the first seconds of this video: I always enjoyed Dawkins critical and yet humorous way of thinking and telling. Don't understand why some people get upset by him, he's such a nice guy. Big respect to his lifework. Followed him for many years. And with 83 years he gets my permission to slow down the gears at least one bit. Have a successful tour through America, Richard!

[@MAY-bm3lh]

Some people just like to get offended. Professor Dawkins is amazing.

[@neonwired4978]

he also promotes some dodgy views

[@derekspitz9225]

Interesting conversation. I do however question what seems to be the assumption that gay men are inherently effeminate. I know that some gay men could physically better some alpha heterosexual men. Gay isn't a synonym for weak or subordinate.

[@veraluxmundi2032]

Exactly, nor 'sneaky' which is another familiar trope about gay men.

[@frankiecooper]

That’s what I came here to say. The assumption that gay males are /were weak and not dominant is a stretch at best.

[@miquelr2353]

Because in 95 out of a 100 that is the case

[@chingron]

I question this claim… do we have a study which has collected statistics on the number of effeminate gays versus masculine gays? From my experience, it is generally quite easy to spot a gay by their mannerisms. But you are suggesting that MOST cannot be spotted…

[@gmonkman]

@@miquelr2353 do you have a source for that figure?

[@jcortese3300]

I think there's an elephant in the room that he's not thinking of here: who says that the source of homosexuality in women is the same as in men? Historically, whether a woman actually wanted sex had very little impact on whether she was made to bear children either in marriage or out of it. There's no reason that it's the same thing in both sexes, even though it has the same outward "symptom" in both -- a preference for one's own sex as a romantic and sexual partner.

[@antihebrew]

Women can be talked into doing anything.

[@LonelyCinderella123]

Yeah, like the older brother thing with gay men. For lesbians it has no impact how many older sisters or brothers they have.

[@antihebrew]

@@LonelyCinderella123 Miley Cyrus and Lady Gaga said they had lesbian relationships because of fashion.

[@carolynbrightfield8911]

Now, they use women's uteruses to reproduce.

[@MarciaMatthews]

Don’t assume ancient societies treated women like under modern male supremacy.

[@montecigno]

am i the only one who finds it funny to hear the words 'sneaky fucker' coming out of prof. dawkins mouth? what a treasure he is.

[@mirandahotspring4019]

Only an Englishman could say that, and not make it sound in the least offensive.

[@GodfreyTempleton]

@@mirandahotspring4019 If you were James O'brien you use the word 'snuck'. Urgh, how I hate that.

[@bunnybal]

It was so unexpected that I choked on my dinner 😭

[@liquidbraino]

"My hypothesis is that science is interesting and if you don't like it you can fuck off" - Richard Dawkins That's my favorite Richard Dawkins quote.

[@MMG-q1v]

@@montecigno He pronounces it like it’s a technical term. Amongst genomicists, it may be a technical term.

[@afritimm]

You're missing the most obvious answer, which is --- gay people including "totally gay" not just bisexual as Dawkins posits --- have ALWAYS procreated. It just ist that hard to do the deed if you must. And this is 10X as true for women. Neither the gay man nor gay woman may like it, but so what else is new. Lots of couples through the ages, even straight couples, werent especially attracted to each other. If you rub it, things happen, particularly when you are young. Social pressure to procreate was immense through most of history, so the only gays who absolutely refused to procreate were a small portion of the total gay population.

[@spatrk6634]

procreation goes beyond sexual preferences. both gay man and gay woman want a child.

[@parityviolation968]

my thoughts, exactly. And indeed this is the most obvious point of critique to the discussion in this video. Societal pressure to have children alone is two-fold... The pressure could manifest both as "not being gay" (therefore Alibi children become a survival strategy) as well as "you must have children" (without regard for their sexual orientation). And, as @spatrk6634 pointed out, you dont even need social pressure to begin with, given we see lots of gay people in modern society wanting to have kids of their own. There are more points to criticize in this video. For example, the gay uncle theory cannot be strengthened by saying families with gay uncles were able to care for _more_ children. Dawkins math skills are lacking in a similar way as I have heard - even biologists - argue that on average men can have more children than women, which is only possible, if the total number of men in the world is smaller than the total number of women and it's got nothing to do with the fact that an individual man can have way more children than an individual woman. A child has one biological mother and father, thus scores one point for men and one for women. The averages are merely determined by the total numbers of both sexes. People sometimes transfer logic at the individual level to the entire society, which is a fallacy of composition, with economists and their idiotic fellows in politics being the biggest offenders. Unless Dawkins argues that gay people in principle are better and more efficient at caring for children than straight people, the gay uncle choosing not to have kids of their own and rather supporting their straight sibling's kids merely means, that the gay uncle allows for his brother to have the exact amount of kids more than he could've otherwise had of his own. The total number of children in the system of sibling + gay uncle wont change.... Everything else being equal other than switching one straight uncle for one gay uncle, assuming a hypothetical of 3 children per person, it's either 3 + 3 = 6 for the straight uncle case or 6 + 0 = 6 for the gay uncle case. Another thing I dont like, because I think it's completely wrong, is the assumption of a strict separation of genetics and environment underpinning the fallacious "Environmental factors imply being gay is a choice". From the perspective of one gene, all the other genes alone are part of their environment. I get that gay people like the one in this video dont like the "environment" because that could suggest being gay was a choice, which has and will be used to impose gay conversion therapy and other cultural nonsense on them. But that suggestion is only due to using a definition of "environment" which merely constitutes the factor of family, upbringing or friends or "chemicals in the water that turn the friggin frogs gay" or "radical left wing communist propaganda that mislead young people" and what have you. But the environment begins with the pregnancy. Developmental biology demonstrates how intricate all the processes are and how the gene expression's dependency on their immediate environment, which is nothing cultural at all, but purely biochemical. Modern conceptions of evolution incorporate the observation that there is even natural selection going on inside our bodies (most notably, our immune system which Denis Noble likes to bring up as examples). Environmental factors change gene expression already inside the womb which in turn can change the environments related to the expression of other genes and so on. All happening already inside our bodies, without any regard to cultural / societal forces outside our body that supposedly could make us gay or convert back to straight. He's right that being gay is most likely not a choice.... But even with a way less narrow definition of "the environment" it's completely possible to not having a choice, because all those processes already happened at a young age (potentially up until the first cell divisions)

That falls under the 'Sneaky Fucker' theory he discussed.

[@franziskani]

But when humans evolved (think 500,000, 100,000 years back) those societal pressures may not have been in play. There were enough men around to impregnate women (certainly when they met with other tribes for hunting or if travellers came along). And as long as the males contributed to the tribe it did not matter if they fathered children or not ... Same for the women, if they wanted children they may have had intercourse, but that does not mean they were attracted a lot to males.

[@Camaleonte]

Historically, how many wives do you think "did the deed" and procreated without enjoying the process? I suspect it has been the norm until recent times when sex has become a recreational activity

[@roncarlin3209]

What a lovely recounting of anecdotal experiences. I think I'll switch to a science channel for a while.

[@veraluxmundi2032]

😅😂❤

[@tributarytears]

@4:52 "Butch men went hunting..." and then Dawkins seems to struggle not to say femme queens stayed with their nieces and nephews. Hysterical.

[@WalterStanley-zf6lo]

This is relying upon a stereotype of the gay man. While some gay men are of this femme queens type, most a quite masculine. Some of the Spartan warriors were gay, as a for instance.

[@unclescipio3136]

What did butch gay men do? One of the gayest friends I have is also a huntin', drinkin', shootin', fishin', weight-liftin' type. His strategy is clearly to get the straight men alone.

[@aoxy87]

​@WalterStanley-zf6lo The causes of manly homosexuality is very different from effeminate homosexuality.

[@joejohnson6327]

Sure, all str8 men are butch & heroic AF.

[@ItsCoreyLynxxYall]

@@WalterStanley-zf6lo Feminine men can also be good fighters and have strong muscles.

[@Yazz2014]

My step dad had 3 homosexual siblings (2w+1m) out of 7 kids. This was back in the 70’s so way before it became “trendy” if you know what I mean. Later on I knew of a family that had 2 out of 6, I knew then that this had to be an inherited trait. That makes 5 out of 13 and they were all raised the same way, so as far as I was concerned that eliminated environmental factors that people back then were too ready to believe. The blame it on mommy was debunked. I think homosexuality is a recessive trait because if it was a dominant trait there would be more of them. And if this were to be the case that would mean that the gene would be passed down (not 100% of the time) from a man and a woman who each have it in their genetic pool, not unlike blue eyes, blond hair or white skin. I’ve always believed that homosexuality exists to keep the population from getting out of hand, it’s mother nature’s way of keeping the numbers down in order to be able to feed everyone. I sometimes see it as homosexuality is pruning the tree of life and disease is dead heading it. Evolutionary theories are fascinating.

[@JOHN----DOE]

Yeah, these two guys talk awfully loosely about the "gay gene," when in fact no such thing has been discovered--that's a very different thing from saying gay has a genetic component, which it apparently has. Lots and lots of diseases and other inherited tendencies are multifactorial, with multiple genetic predisposers, plus certain environmental triggers (more gays in times of war and famine, e.g.). And despite their claim, there are plenty of people who aren't just one thing or another. Science has a lot of work to do before talking sensibly about how, and how much, being gay is inherited.

[@Yazz2014]

@@JOHN----DOE pertaining to your claims of there being more gays in times of war and famine, I do not think that those people are gay at all, they are simply opportunistic people. Their survival is primordial and they will use any means to achieve it. Although on the surface it may seem like their true nature is revealed due to “environmental triggers”, I submit that it has nothing to do whatsoever.

[@ParvaizRaja]

I know a family here in Pakistan with five sons, four of whom are gay, and two daughters, they all are married with children. One of the gay sons has eight sons, six of whom are gay, and seven daughters, three of whom are lesbians from 3 different wives-all married with children. So, the idea that the youngest son of many siblings is always gay doesn’t hold true.

[@morwickchesterham3875]

This comment blew my mind...

[@ParvaizRaja]

@@morwickchesterham3875 Hmmm... I haven't mentioned what they do to their children and young siblings.

[@pong9000]

Nobody commented "always gay". It's just a well established probability.

[@knoobiez]

Stop capping

[@donaldewert2332]

Like what??​@@ParvaizRaja

[@TheBrightmanFan]

I'm losing my mind why Dr. Dawkins is not talking about Epigenetics and Epi-Markers and how different factors in the mother's womb influence how genes are expressed. There are many studies on Autism and Homosexuality that seem to indicate the importance of these factors in the mother's womb.

[@PADARM]

This!! Many studies seem to indicate that hormonal levels or stress and many factors in the mother's womb modify the gene expression in the child.

[@sofiarupil7746]

Totally agree. I don't understand why he didn't mention this.

[@deborah869]

Bright man you read my mind. There are analogies to insect species. Queen ants "tapping" epigentically on the eggs of her children causing some to emerge soldiers, others workers.

[@jeffguarino2097]

Yes but where do the epigenetic functionalities come from. There are DNA genes that create the epigenetics. So for example in the womb something influences the environment and causes a baby to develop autism. The babies genes are modified with methyl groups. But there is something in the mothers genes that controls the changes in the womb. It always has to lead back to the DNA, even if indirectly. A region that is producing plenty of food will have lots of women who gain weight and become overweight. They may produce babies that are epigenetically modified to have a weaker appetite. Then when there is a famine , the babies born get modified with a strong appetite so they can get more food. They won't leave anything on the plate. There would be DNA genes orchestrating all the intergenerational sequences.

[@MnyFrNthng]

This is an old video. Epigenetics is relatively a new concept in the field.

[@ncik_vids]

“There’s an interview happening over there” “Ok, I’ll leave them alone and polish all the cutlery”

[@dapostop7384]

I'm not convinced that gay man staying home and not hunting to care for family, and that they are less dominance. That seems to be based on feminin stereotypes. Also aside from evolution there is a huge cultural mental aspect to it.

[@Neil-r6o]

@dapostop - nah, it doesn't ring true does it.

[@lolabear3230]

Yeh I cant see a butch gay man staying in the cave with the kids

[@LonelyCinderella123]

And these two men are actually a good example. The gay guy would probably be better as a hunting buddy and not just because of the age difference.

[@ColinHarris-g6g]

The Amerindians had a 'berdache' culture. The men were highly valued for staying behind to help protect the young and the elderly.

[@MMG-q1v]

@@dapostop7384 In my opinion (no data outside of personal observation and interpretation), the problem may have been with the straight men. The idea that someone could be looking at him the way he looks at women interferes with the straight man’s ability to concentrate on the hunt.

[@JoeCuv]

Why did the conversation sound like passing a gay gene is more of a male role? The examples seemed to sound more about being the gay man left behind from the hunt. Or the gay uncle is the one who passes the baton so to speak. It could just be females passing a recessive gene as they are forced to reproduce. This would be consistent with their families survival from generation to generation. Or that homosexual females with homosexual feelings choose to procreate despite their physiological and psychological attractions as they fulfill the role as mothers in their clans and societies. The desire to procreate and being a homosexual can be deliberate, and it can have motivating factors beyond sexual attraction. In later human societies, the motivators may not have been as strongly for the survival of the tribe, and procreating factors may or may not become more complex. There are reasons that gay men and women may decide that they too would like to have a legacy, a family, and children to pass on their heritage, culture, and possessions to. Really the more interesting argument is why does it exist in animals with potentially little or no societal pressure to reproduce, is it not? Or convince me we are just animals and we can only follow our primal urges. Or the converse is true, animals are more complex than many humans give them credit, and we have more in common with animals and their families than we generally believe. Or it's all true to some extent, and that is all we need to pass along a gay gene. Anyone have any psych and or bio data on any of this?

[@JoeCuv]

And let us not forget it is religions that generally treat homosexuality like it is a disease. If you think of it as nothing more than red hair, then of course it's much easier to understand why homosexuality exists and some groups of humans make too much of a fuss about it. We can still procreate with or without having someone with red hair as one of our chosen mates. So maybe religions just need to get over it. Again, convince me that I'm wrong.

[@lucindajolly4195]

Cause women arent important and the female interpretation would have such a different lens

[@JoeCuv]

@@lucindajolly4195 sarcasm I hope

[@MAY-bm3lh]

You're just being overly sensitive.

[@zombieGI]

Because there is no example anywhere in the animal kingdom for lesbian behaviour outside of humans

[@richardengelhardt582]

Less insightful than I had hoped it might be

[@charlesdartagnan8788]

yeah it sounded like a bunch of baloney tbh.

[@user-ci2fd8vc2f]

sneaky f****r theory was very insightful

[@NineBerry]

This is just nonsense and random speculation. As population genetics shows, a human trait like homosexuality does not require any selection benefit. It can just be random variation within the population.

[@KCWoltz]

I wish I could go to your tour in Dallas!!!😭 I live in rural Texas in the Bible belt in the middle of nowhere surrounded by nothing but Christian Trump supporters and I'm the only person I know that is the total opposite in every way so I admire you so much for your courage and how your doing your best to combat ignorance!❤

[@kathrynmireles4278]

Me too, I feel you❤

[@ivanfranco2363]

We love you, Richard!!!

[@polymloth]

It doesn’t necessarily have to be hereditary. Autism can be hereditary but sometimes it manifests without such a component. It can be caused by mutations, trauma (like respiratory distress in the womb), nutritional deficiencies, hormonal imbalances, and/or inherited genes. So an exclusively hereditary “gay gene” doesn’t exist.

[@kimlarso]

No such thing as a gay gene…..The millions of children that die from starvation in Africa would certainly clarify this

[@kellymichelley]

Is there a "straight" gene?

[@polymloth]

@@kimlarso That was my point (unless you’re claiming it’s purely environmental). That there is not a single gene or even a group of genes that can be identified as exclusively causing homosexuality, just like with autism. They’re both symptoms of something going wrong during the earliest stages of brain development, resulting in abnormal neural structures that cannot be altered through neuroplasticity or hormone/micronutrient balance adjustments later in life.

[@pauli2169]

Actually, this is only my opinion but I see my gay sexuality (less gay more bi) as a form of Autism. I only need to look at my close gay friends and they are definitely on the autism spectrum. I have seen friends remove bananas from a bowl of fruit because it has gone a bit brown, colour co-ordinating their clothes to the nth degree not buying cars because the interior is not a specific shade of beige…I could go on. The other thing I noticed is how they seem to become obsessed with something, it could be opera, art, antiques, gardening or decorating, whatever it is , it controls their lives to the point where there is no room for relationships. In fact they are well aware that it is not possible for them to have a relationship, which is why Grindr is as popular as it is.

[@polymloth]

@@pauli2169 I’ve noticed the same thing, but based on how autism is defined clinically, I wouldn’t call homosexuality its subtype. There is definitely some statistically significant overlap, though. My guess is that some of the neurological abnormalities common to gay people also manifest as autistic behaviour. Because sexuality is closely linked with social behaviour, anything wrong with the area/pathways involved in regulating one probably affects the other one too. But it’s not always the case. I’m autistic and straight myself, but my mother is autistic while her wife is definitely not (and both are obviously lesbians).

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

My ex-Girlfriends Father was Gay. Gay and Catholic. He, very smartly, found a wife to have children with who was open to his homosexuality allowing him to move his partner into the home. He had three children with his wife. It was a marriage of convenience but he still loved his wife and kids and provided for them. The church was just none-the-wiser.

[@_Painted]

Sounds like the wife got two husbands out of the deal.

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

@@_Painted Not really. He later screwed her over and she lost her house after her husband passed away.

[@mitkoogrozev]

If one has sex with both sexes, would it make sense to still call him gay? It's bisexual at this point.

[@_Painted]

@@Jay-ate-a-bug Wow... That's awful. It sounded like a happy story until then.

[@Jay-ate-a-bug]

@@_Painted I think the only happy part of the story was that she had 4 children.

[@federicoprice2687]

Richard, you taught me nearly 50 years ago, and you bounced your ideas for The Selfish Gene around during your wonderful tutorials. Your words and theories have resonated with me ever since - I feel immensely priviliged to have benefited from your wisdom and teaching! The only thing that never sunk in for me were your tutes on computing - but hey, that was very avant garde back then!! Best wishes for your trip to the States, and for a safe return home. And once again, thank you for being you!! 🤗 😊

[@davidmayhew8083]

Another question might be "why are so many people bigoted about homosexuality?" Or Jews? Or people of color? Or women? Where does the hate come from?

[@bryanutility9609]

Maybe your idea of bigotry is just a myth. & 🏳️‍🌈 is your religion & the hate you project onto mysterious “others” comes from your own inferiority complex.

[@daveansell1970]

I think bisexuals forming strong same sex relationships being useful socially whilst still having straight relationships and having children may also be a part.

[@kimlarso]

Viruses aren’t gay and most aren’t deadly bc their goal is to live, reproduce so it doesn’t pay to kill the host……There is no gay gene….Epigenetic’s is interesting, as is memories passed down to future generations from Prisoner’s of War….almost every gay/bisexual have impressionable formal experiences that planted the gay seed within them (porn, erotic literature, witnessing family/friend gay relationships)…..everything or nothing begins w a thought….the genetic gay gene would certainly present itself w the millions of starving adults & children in Africa yearly for example…..many men/women sexually abused as children report simulating & choosing later in life the very gayness they were subjected too as children…..next we’ll be discussing the gene that determines why some like vanilla & others chocolate

[@robthatsme9831]

Thank you Prof Dawkins for this. 👍 I’m a gay youngest brother in Australia, atheist. I fell in love with you (lol) watching The God Delusion vids. You’re my hero.

[@kiriakosoikonomu2907]

you are gay and atheist. What worse can you wish

[@Leftatalbuquerque]

SOMEONE needs to teach the children that Bette Midler had a career BEFORE "Beaches".

[@pace628]

I really enjoy these cultivated conversations between Richard and his guests. A short half hour!

[@Pulguento.]

I once read an article that makes total sense. The article says that people are more likely to be gay the more siblings they have. So if you have 2 siblings it means you would be more likely to be gay than your older brothers. I’m the youngest of four siblings, I’m gay, according to the article it would have to do with the order of birth. It’s funny because almost all of my gay friends have something in common, we’re all the youngest of our siblings. One explanation for this, being a gay person you wouldn’t have kids, so you would be able to take care of others in your family, maybe the parents when they’re older, or the sons of your older brother. That also makes sense. Maybe it’s a nature thing so the population doesn’t grow too much.

[@MillennialJesus]

I have four siblings, me being the youngest and gay.

[@RobertJonesWightpaint]

Sorry if this upsets the theory, but I'm the older brother and gay/queer; my younger brother is straight. Having taken a good look at both of us, my parents had no more children.

[@Pulguento.]

@@RobertJonesWightpaint the theory is not like math, if you are the younger brother you are more likely to be gay. You might be out of the curve. Maybe you should ask your gay friends if they are the youngest amongst their siblings. There are also studies about the subject, you can google it if it interests you.

[@helenmalinowski4482]

Dawkins is one of the greatest speakers, writers and promoters of Scientific Philosophy and Thought on the Planet. Why has he not been awarded a Nobel Prize??

[@lolabear3230]

Because although he is a scientific speaker he hasn't actually achieved anything to advance science hes hardly marie curie

[@jons9721]

There isn't a Nobel prize for the public understanding of science which is where he has spent most of his career. He earlier work and papers are in zoology again not really a big Nobel prize arena. His list of papers are interesting but I don't think he would claim to be a Darwin en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins_bibliography Basically on the whole his career has been taking other people's papers and putting them in a human readable form in his books. This is a very important role but not really that much fundamental new science. I'm in no way knocking him and he actually inspired me to do a biology degree late in life, he really should however be getting a knighthood or being made a Lord for his work. Love to see him in the House of Lords but I think he is too old for this now

[@rohansrider]

@@jons9721 I don't think Richard goes a bundle all that brown nosing nonsense .But, when you think of the dross who get knighthoods especially actors and sportsmen - it is a travesty that he has been ignored. The badly educated royals dislike him because he is atheist and en masse represent the church, so the King et al are unlikely to endorse an honour that they invest.

[@davidalderson4980]

This ridiculous video should answer your question.

[@281992pdr]

@@lolabear3230 Try reading, if you have not read it, his book "The Selfish Gene." Through that he advanced evolutionary biology.

[@korvo6126]

I'm a biologist, I just arrived to min 5:00 and I'm already annoyed. This sounds like a dialogue from the 1980s, when we still thought that everything was genetic, trying to discover the gene of this and the gene of that. We have since learned that humans only have 25,000 genes - not enough to code for fancy things like homosexuality. This means that homosexuality, if genetically hardwired at all, may be the result of interaction of multiple genes, which explains why there is no clear selective pressure against it. But what's the problem? If homosexuality persists, it's because it is not detrimental to human survival, and that's all that matters in evolution.

[@olenabutriy2403]

Biological homo-genders are a totally endocrinal phenomenon, unambiguously defined by the genes which are responsible for the production of gender-hormones and gender-hormones absorption in the body. Sugar diabetes is not a one-gene phenomenon. Neither is a gender expression.

[@olenabutriy2403]

Another thing, there are a primary (embrional level) gender expression and a secondary (puberty) gender expression. Most of people, when talking about gender, understand the secondary gender expression, which is non-essential on their own.

[@michaeltoney2277]

I would love people to study if Chymerism plays a role in the fetus early development causing a higher propensity of homosexuality in the adult.

[@monstermonsterlover]

so what do you mean? i think i’m so stupid that i don’t understand 😞 is it genetic? do we just be born gay ?

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

@@monstermonsterlover Biology is very complicated, so you don’t need to feel bad for not understanding it.

[@shetlandsheep3081]

In ancient Athens homosexuality was a middle and upper class highly codified activity which served the needs of society. Young men were paired with an older man, who might have more money or influence. The advantage to the young mans family was that he would not be impregnating young women, as women and marriage were highly controlled too. Once the young man could grow a full beard, the relationship was meant to end, and at that point marriage to a woman would come into the picture. This is why relationships such as Alexander’s possible sexual relationship with Hephaistion would have been frowned upon had Alexander not been an absolute ruler, because they were fully adult men. Its important also to remember that for the Greeks, people were not “gay” or “straight”, it was actions that you undertook and their context that were homosexual or not, or degrading or not. The Greeks saw being the penetrated party as humiliating for the receiver, because it was the “woman’s” role - in other words, the penetrated man was “being” a woman, which of course throughout history has been seen as lesser and a humiliation to be likened to. So if you were the penetrator, of a man or a woman - you would not necessarily be seen as gay. Even today there are many men who solely engage in homosexual acts who when surveyed do not identify themselves as gay/homosexual, they just f#%k men! Most sex was intercrural/fellatio rather than than penetrative (as some surveys suggest it still is), so it wasnt the gangbanging orgies as the stereotypes suggest.

[@geoffdundee]

@shetlandsheep3081 ........sounds alot like >>>>>>>> Bacha bāzī (Persian: بچه بازی, lit. 'boy play') is a practice in which men (sometimes called bacha baz) buy and keep adolescent boys (sometimes called dancing boys) for entertainment and sex. It is a custom in Afghanistan and in historical Turkestan and often involves sexual slavery and child prostitution by older men of young adolescent males.

[@UltraDonny5000]

Still chomos

[@bshows89]

I'm not sure it's helpful to draw comparisons between pederasty and homosexuality. Hopefully, I’ve misunderstood and that wasn't what you were doing. It is much like drawing comparisons between pedophilia and homosexuality. The motivations and the outcomes are unrelated even if the behaviors might appear similar.

[@aoxy87]

​@@bshows89The vast majority of societies, which accepted homosexuality , accepted in the pederastic way. Adult men being always the dominant partner. A sexual relationship between two adult males was inconceivable in the greco-roman world. Anyway, you are using modern values on this issue, teenagers are not children. On those times, in parallel, girls of 14 were already fit to marry and have children.

[@davidwright8432]

Yes, I think there's a certain amount of 'orgy envy' of a certain kind of orgy, going on here!

[@WallaceStegner-e7r]

Great discussion, marred by background noises, visual distractions, too much camera movement.

[@colincomber]

The gay writer Raymond Chandler in his autobiography suggested 'the gay gene' was carried by the female line.

[@HisameArtwork]

Well up untill recently women didn't have the freedom to manifest their gayness since they d be married of a r word matrimonially. Very few escaped to monestaries where again they'd be limited.

[@antun88]

Reading about Roman sexuality can give you a lot of clues about this topic. Essentially, the sexual drive was more conditioned by class status then geneder. Wealthy Romans would be interested in any male or female. Their sexuality was an expression of their ability to dominate anyone with the lower class status, which includes men, feminized men especially, women and slaves who would get rapped left and right. So being into men or women was not even a sexual orientation, it was just a preference.

[@kaylenesparrow2176]

Or lots of testosterone

[@clorox1676]

Yeah, but that's nothing but a cultural expression of sexual behaviour. 'Sexual identity' is a very modern concept and it's pretty much the same, a cultural expression of modern era. The reality is that human species like many others engage in same sex sexual acts and sentimental relationships. That reality could be transformed and expressed in different ways in different cultures as they establish their social rules.

[@LarsGsanger]

👍🍏

[@sergioanimus]

Interesting

[@kimberlypierce9237]

Look at Sean "Diddy" Combs and others in positions of great wealth or power. He's a good example of someone who had desire to dominate both men and women. Obviously he is corrupted completely by his ego. His thinking and choices are to blame for his deranged behavior. Definitely not his genes. Same goes for others engaging in self- or other-destructive acts.

[@tomszabo7350]

I'm surprised Dawkins is so unaware of two genetic possibilities ... the first is the "male bonding gene", basically guys who get along really well with each other (thus make great teams as warriors) which gene is then sometimes expressed as homosexual preference. In other words the gene will express either as hetero but with strong male bonds, or gay (the male bond is sexual). And two is the "nymphomaniac gene" in which women who have a strong desire for sexual encounters with men (thus birthing more children) resulting in some male offspring with the same genetic desire (for men). One or both of these is WAY more likely than the possibilities discussed in this video.

[@williambebonis5683]

I agree that both hypotheses you describe are much more interesting. The argument for homosexuality/bisexuality as a function of an evolutionary pressure toward prosociality is particularly interesting given we have primate cousins who utilise sex for that reason.

[@haukenot3345]

I wondered why we were constantly talking about genes, but not about epigenetics. It almost felt like they weren't actually talking about science, but rather having a philosophical debate. The way Dawkins kept referring to himself as a Darwinian almost had an air of religious reverence.

[@mcwho3]

Some of these arguments haven't aged very well. It's obvious that genetics predicts a very small part of someone's homosexual attraction.

[@veraluxmundi2032]

Agree. Very dated social ideas of what it is to be gay.

[@RationalistMH]

Not really. Studies have shown that genes can contribute up to 25% of a person's orientation. Yes, there is no singular gay gene, and 25% is by no means determinative, but I would not call it a 'very small part'.

[@veraluxmundi2032]

@@RationalistMH I would call it less than a quarter.

[@mcwho3]

@@RationalistMH "Up to 25%" with other studies showing less than 1%. I would consider that a very small part. Either way it is a small fraction of the determining factor.

[@LonelyCinderella123]

​@RationalistMH Also a biological cause for something is broader than just genetics. Like having an older brother increasing your chances of being gay. The cause there is probably related to fetal development in the womb.

[@L1LP0E]

I think its both a combination of recessive genes as well as hormones in utero and along the way through development. A lot of people say nurture plays a factor that may be true but i think theres absolutely a genetic component at play as well.

[@ValerieEdwards-e4t]

This is nonsense, scientifically. No gay “gene” has been isolated. Sexual orientation brings into play multiple genes, some of which may have other competitive advantages. We just don’t know. This is just Dawkins spitballing.

[@BjorckBengt]

Well, hat is what he said. He didn't make any claims.

[@RickBerg-b9k]

We know, as homosexuals, that we did not choose to be this way, and likely had nothing to do with how we were raised.

[@granthurlburt4062]

If you pay attn., around and after 25:00 there appears to be a lot of evidence from primary basic peer-reviewed research that it is genetic. We have determined that a lot of diseases were genetic just by comparing relatives before we ID the specific gene or genes.

[@simondebeer9917]

I read once that gayness could be a caused by development in the womb eg level of exposure to certain hormones. That theory better explains the ongoing presence of gay people in the community

[@franziskani]

I also think it is a combination of factors (incl. how carrying several males to term changes the hormonal system of a woman *), BUT this has not be wiped out by evolution. * If a man has several older male brothers the chances of being gay are increasing (so it has to do with the repeated ! effect of a male fetus on the female body of the mother). It is almost as if there are enough males some of them are taken out of the dating market. One of the strongest forces of life is procreation - so why are there gay humans (or animals). How does that work, why haven't the evolutionary processes gotten rid of those factors or combination of factors ? It is not only homo sapiens, there are (typically social and fairly intelligent) animals that are "gay" meaning they grow to the age when they should pursue a mate, then woe them, mate, build nests, defend a territory etc. and have offspring that they (or one of them) cares for. And what do they do instead of that normal routine ? Join up with an animal of their species but of the same sex. No offspring here. This contradicts the forces of life (or so it would seem). But of course even though 2 male geese (ganters ?) will not procreate - they have "nephews and nieces" - and as they do not raise their own offspring, they can devote resources and protection to their closest young "relatives". So it helps the species, and even their genes (after all the genetics of their nieces / nephews have a lot in common with them). If one of the parents dies or get's injured there are 2 other adult animals that can help out. That is a major advantage (4 instead of 2 parents) especially in times of crisis. Too little food, infections that wipe out a lot of animals, etc. The ducklings have double the chances to keep adults that will raise them. Adoptions are rare for animals and it is even more rare if the little one still needs to be nursed. If the young can eat the same things as the adults their chances are better. Whales do it, there are hyenas in the Kalahari who do it, the intelligent apes and also wolves will care for a little one that lost their parents. The most intelligent animals might adopt older orphans, maybe even go as far as to nurse them. Usually a little one that lost a parent is doomed, no matter how healthy and well developed it is, and even if there is plenty of food and good conditions.

[@anthonysimpson6738]

I read that families that have gay members, the women in these families had more children than families that didn’t have gays. So the advantage was the genes that made men or women gay made women more fertile and this was why the genes related gayness persisted because it offered a reproductive advantage to regular folk.

[@RebeccaOre]

I'd saw that's the gay uncles cover that. If you've got a spare non-breeding adult in the family who'll do child care, you can have more kids.

[@chrisocony]

You got to like the Sneaky Fucker Theory if only for it's name.

[@seekerhonest]

Thankd fir the video. Thank you for your great work and your help to fight against false man-made religious morals agaisnt being gay.

[@romescala_aban3125]

During embryonic development of the child can affect a boy to be gay ...especially from 2 months up when theres something happened a trauma to the mother , the foods or drugs shes taking , etc ...

[@barryzahurance310]

This theory doesn't take into account those species that don't have wombs and yet have just as likely a chance of being gay.

[@BeatPoet67]

I almost spat my prosecco out laughing when Richard said "the sneaky fucker theory". Great name for a band!

[@spadeespada9432]

Has it been definitively established that gender preference is genetic in origin?

[@frankxu4795]

Yes and no. Any human behavior is linked to some genetic source one way or another. The only issue is to what extent and how. It could be the combined result from a complicated process involving many genes or it could be linked to a particular set of genes. Environmental factors could also play a big part to amplify/mitigate the effect of certain genetic factors.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

There is some evolutionary advantage to having a certain amount of the population that are gay, as that lowers sexual competition for reproduction. Gay men and women are also able to fill societal roles that most other of their gender wouldnt want to.

[@GITSSAC]

What are some examples of these roles?

[@djw7141]

only in "arms races" between species. it would not help the individual gay gene reproduce.

[@joelonsdale]

I can't see the sense in evolution selecting for non-competitivity.

[@myhksm3025]

Nowadays, you see why homosexuality is inevitable to flourish in muslim countries where the opposite gender close interactions are generally oppressed. The end product is, women settle with women, and men with men.

[@Hankblue]

Evolutionary advantage to who? Not to gay people...

[@1080lights]

I remember seeing a paper that suggested that male bisexuality was correlated with greater sex drive and propensity for reproduction. The argument was essentially that getting some of the genetic factors that produce same-sex attraction are also beneficial to some degree in motivating sex and reproduction generally, and that’s why they’re favored in natural selection. These factors are likely to be passed on, even if in some cases, having many such factors might produce only same-sex attraction. To paraphrase, nature might select for some small amount of expressed or unexpressed same-sex attraction factors because it produces certain sexual properties, and the side effect is that some chances of inheritance produce people with only same-sex attraction. I can’t remember which paper this was, sadly.

[@DisposableSupervillainHenchman]

Five points to Sneaker F*-ker!

[@dopplerfilmz]

In tears😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 Richard is 83, may the universe bring more of your kind the way of this planet!!!!

[@lethasatterfield9615]

To Whom It May Concern: Your advertisement said you'd be in Dallas. I just checked, and you're all over the U.S., but I couldn't find Dallas on your schedule! I want to come and see Richard Dawkins

[@AJ-be6px]

How odd for an expert in genetics to suggest that every trait in humans must provide a direct evolutionary advantage.

[@sunnywhether]

Go on…

[@edwarding4355]

Yes. Like my enjoyment of music.

[@jmrocks49]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Dawkins is not entirely comfortable talking about being gay? I noticed that he hesitated several times when he said homosexual. To me, there wasn’t much there there.

[@lmcphers]

I'm just starting the video, but was previewing the comments and I want to say that this man is 83 years old and there was a time in his life that he probably was homophobic because almost all of the Western world was. As he has grappled with an evolving culture, new science, and his own past biases, he may still have an instinctual "pause" that he may never get over, but the thing is is that he is aware of his bias in this case and that is the most important step someone can take to eradicating their phobias not only for themselves, but for others.

[@brigidsingleton1596]

I had five babies inbetween 1988 & 1993... Including two sets of twins: on 16th January 1992, & 30th September 1993.... My firstborn (eldest daughter) is "straight" by her own admission, my first set of twins died - aged 6 hours and 12 hours, so I'll never know their own orientation/s, but my second set of twins are both "gay". My third - surviving - daughter*, is twenty-one minutes older than her brother, the latter is enjoying a long-term relationship with his partner (& their cat, Oliver). My daughter* lives with me and is my full-time carer, (& is currently single). ... These family connections are mainly why I am interested in this conversation with Richard Dawkins. ... My thanks to those who have taken the time and effort to post this conversation... I do appreciate your having shared this with us. 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿♥️🇬🇧🖖

[@morwickchesterham3875]

Just curious, is your third surviving daughter a lesbian or bisexual... are you a bisexual, or is the father(s) of your children bisexual?

[@Ithinkthereforeiam-ph9nb]

@@brigidsingleton1596 you are courageous woman Bridget! I only have one child, mid 30s now. About 15 years ago I was educated by my child that every human being is bisexual by nature. Since I consider my child to be a very smart person, I guess because I consider myself to be relatively smart - I do agree with that statement. 🖖💙

[@georgetsagaris4470]

Ernst Rohm the Nazi SA leader was gay but hardly the type to stay behind and look after the kids.

[@starlettetwinkles6933]

Richard, if I never get the honor of meeting you in person, I would still like to say I am beyond appreciative of you, your existence, your amazing collection of work, and your many contributions to human kind! Humankind rides on the tails of giants, like yourself. Thank you again!

[@gordkao]

Mr Dawkins, you are a treasure to humanity!

[@Wiki_Beats]

@@gordkao icky

[@sherifaljeddawy2467]

Dr Richard, I owe you a lot more than words can describe... You're my personal prophet, too much knowledge & politeness. Salute from Egypt.

[@nyg1984]

I grew up in a place and time where the gay slurs and name calling were addressed only to those that exhibited effeminate behavior. Those guys that carried themselves in a regular masculine manner, regardless if once in a while got it on with another guy, were never mocked or harassed because of it and many of them would go on to date and marry women. They would say any hole can get you off but only one can give you kids.

[@josefj.cfourie198]

As a gay man, who also knew from the start. I didn't know that I "gay", I was too young to really understand, but by the time all the boys were starting to "look" at girls differently... I started to understand. I would not agree with the first two suggestions, but maybe the third one. 1. For other to have "trusted" gay guys to stay at home and help to look after the children and women, would suggest that you could tell who is gay. There are guys who naturally look and act more straight than a straight guy and there are straight guys who naturally look and act more gay than some gay guys. 2. If it is a "gay" gene that person 'A' has and his brother person 'B' doesn't have. How can person 'B' then transmit the gene to the next generation if he doesn't have the gene? Could it not rather be a set of genes? 1. AABB - 100% straight 2. AABC - 10% gay 3. ABAA - 30% gay 4. ...... ..... ..... 546. C*** - 100% gay ** Just a suggestion **

[@anni730]

An informative discussion. Life will not be the same without you Richard. You are a legend 🙌. May you live long and healthy. Admire your courage to address all curiosities 🙏 ❤.

[@matthewtheobald1231]

Isn't it possible that it's just a fairly common mutation that crops up from time to time and so doesn't need to be reinforced by natural selection? We see many mutations in the human population that are adverse to reproduction such as being born mentally retarded or with a serious physical disability. Those things also seriously decrease your chances of reproducing and yet they occur fairly often.

[@warrenny]

Possible, yes. Lately though, gene science is seeing that most behaviors involve dozens of genes acting together. So the amount of mutations that would be necessary to produce the same "gay behavior" would be make it very unlikely.

[@llwydanwyl]

or maybe being gay isn't actually an aberration, and it's just like being double-jointed or having albinism

[@Lisa-x3n5x]

​@llwydanwyl Aren't they aberrations? I don't see the the word aberration as pejorative. It's just a fancy word for different.

[@warrenny]

@@llwydanwyl thing is, those are genetic mutations.

[@geoffcrumblin9850]

Inclined to agree, that it's an error in transference of data

[@piconano]

There have always been gays in ALL animals. That includes us.

[@johnfisher247]

I can assure you what you call gay is a projection. Animals simply do what they feel and when in abnormal circumstances that instinct is directed in ways that work ir don't. They do what they do until the plumbing fits. Humans do certsin behaviours for many reasons that often are pathological and are not a matter of plumbing.

[@rogerjohnson2562]

Woke tripe! 'Homosexual' is just a human thing; the result of the LONG route consciousness takes to maturity.

[@WalterStanley-zf6lo]

@@rogerjohnson2562 Woke tripe = undeniable truth? Go to the trouble of googling "Are Animals Homosexual," and you'll find that homosexuality exists in nearly all species. You're aware that your opinion is self-righteous, hateful, and immature, I hope.

[@miquelr2353]

​@@rogerjohnson2562theres literally whole books about many many species that have gay individuals. Like mountains of evidence...

[@gmonkman]

@@rogerjohnson2562 may I advise you do some amount of research before giving your opinion? It will stop people thinking you are an ill-informed idiot.

[@RudisKetabs]

What about lesbian women? Where do they fit in your “gay-uncle-theory”?

[@LarsGsanger]

🙂👍

[@pong9000]

I suppose we could have called it "queer auntie and gay uncle theory". Better?

[@charlesmendeley9823]

Lesbian women were obviously hunting with the butch men. 😂

[@stevenhanson6057]

While pregnant, my mother attended a Johnny Mathis concert.

[@allahmuhammad225]

Noticed many yellow cabs on Crown Victorias in this video from the early 2000s. It’s a reminder of how these taxis were prevalent in NYC back then. Quite a nostalgic touch seeing them from that era!

[@Michael-f9t4t]

I have a serious criticism. One of the gentlemen is a serious scholarly thinker and the other man is a gay activist who appears very intelligent and well informed. However the whole premise of this video is deceitful because it skipped over quite quickly that it is only an assumption that there is a gay gene. There is some evidence for this but there's evidence that toothpicks can dance in the middle of the night when nobody's looking. The more robust research results are within the field of in utero and andronization in the brain during fetal development as well as some other physiologic changes that could occur in utero.. This is not conclusive either but the way he speaks you would think we're talking about a gay gene as if it's something we have some certainty about and we certainly do not. This whole discussion is nothing more than fantasy. If he were to say "for the purpose of this discussion we're going to assume that the gay gene exists" that would be more feasible. This is a faulty presentation and no one should believe that it has any merit. It is perfectly fitting that this is occurring in a cafe in New York City because it's the kind of conversation two people would have in the middle of the afternoon over a cup of coffee when they each have nothing better to do.

[@Michael_X313]

That's a perfectly fair observation and criticism. I'm afraid there's similar fallaciousnss all over the KZbins and connected to everything mainstream. For a person to even entertain the idea that "gayness" is as arbitrary as a gene boggles my mind but, it's really up to them to perceive the truth of reality and even language itself.

[@kimlarso]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@zafar.2]

This episode shows that Dawkins is no scientist, just a story teller

[@pmaragoudakis]

I was just going to write that comment about in utero development when I saw your comment.

[@darwinawardcommittee]

I wish Dawson would be as circumspect when it goes to trans issues. The dude has joined in with jk Rowling of online bullying of trans people. The dude has become an embarrassment and a real disappointment.

[@BangsarRia]

They didn't speculate about a genetic link between male homosexuality and a proclivity for the priesthood.

[@TheTomboy345]

That’s not gay sir you’re mistaking that with PDF file.

[@antihebrew]

Drag Queen Story Time

[@antihebrew]

@@TheTomboy345 Same dif.

[@davecummings3335]

It keeps people from speculating about why you aren't married or dating. Nothing genetic about that, just survival instinct. You don't suppose all monks are really celibate, do you?

[@xaverlustig3581]

Mandatory celibacy of catholic priests removes any problems (discrimination, self loathing etc) with their sexuality, which is why overproportionally gay men choose (or used to) become priests or monks. There's nothing genetic about it, all societal. The thinking is faulty, but that's a separate issue.

[@jtdavis6937]

Many years ago, as a student, I shared house with a male gay couple on the premise I'd be safe from complications by surrounding myself with "eunuchs". Long story short - don't depend on the principle as a rule. 😂The premise became somewhat shaky when they started fighting over me and when I caught them spying into my bedroom, I declared it well and truly null and void. 🤣

[@larryd6143]

Being gay can be a good thing. Growing up for my generation (I'm 76) was to believe what you were taught. Go to school, marry a woman have a job and children. Being gay you come to realize you were told a lie and that's when you decide to question everything you were taught, like religion, politics, human and animal rights etc.. It gives you, or should, empathy for other oppressed minorities. There are transposons or jumping genes, genes we may all have but turn on or off at different times under different circumstances. The youngest son is more likely to be gay than his older brothers. The percentage of gay people is still unknown as we still live in a closeted world of fear and prejudice. Great discussion. I hope hey cure aging soon we need Richard around for a very long time and me too (of course).

[@peggymccright1220]

This is such a great conversation. Thank you both for sharing your insights!

[@BartMesser-n1c]

In Texas where I’m from, the moment you know you’re gay you begin to wear burnt orange. It’s very peculiar but happens astonishingly virtually every time.

[@alexcrosstic5372]

🤣

[@chrislaing8444]

I can guarantee zero coffees were made during their discussion. 😂

[@flaze3]

Why?

[@chrislaing8444]

@@flaze3 because they would all be trying to listen into the conversation 🤣

[@julesw4037]

There was a article published some years ago, unfortunately I can't recall which, that posited the hypothesis that homosexuality in males was due to the mothers immune system whilst pregnant. It seems that by the third pregnancy with a male foetus, the mothers immune system had become hyper-sensitive to test testosterone, and it was this hyper-sensitivity that went on to damage the genetics of the unborn third male child, which led to homosexuality.

[@RobertJonesWightpaint]

It's a pity you can't recall it, but - I suspect that's not well evidenced.

[@julesw4037]

@@RobertJonesWightpaint Possibly, but it's a little less homophobic than, "it's a life-style choice".

[@charlesmendeley9823]

I searched on consensus app and found "Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development"

[@MAY-bm3lh]

This was a very insightful rewatch. Such an insightful conversation!

[@aineduffy1006]

I'd love a conversation between Robert Sapolsky and Dawkins!

[@Rinahoidhche]

Oh yes, that would be so good 👍

[@nigeljohnson9820]

The majority of an ant colony are asexual and are associated with most of the work. Maybe the clue for the survival of any homosexual gene is to look for other useful traits that are associated with homosexual behaviour. It may be an artifact of more useful traits that aids the survival of the rest of the hetrosexual population. The immediate question that comes to mind is what useful behaviour is linked to homosexually. It could be purely biochemical, or it could be a particular way of thinking in terms of brain structure.

[@carolynbrightfield8911]

Creativity. Story telling. Musical ability. Spiritual experiences. When singing, dancing, and drumming weren't pre-recorded, when the tribe relied on people in the present moment to entertain them and escape from reality for a short time. In my opinion, that's the reason the 'creative' industry supports them so strongly. When you don't have children (another creative experience) you've got much more time to practice, create and explore ideas. One hundred years ago (for example) if you were heterosexual and followed your sex urges, the inevitable result was a baby to feed (hunt or gather), clothe (weave or skin), and house. Not too much time to sit around painting, practising guitar or writing in that scenario. Gays had the time - no kids. Also 'gay uncle' definitely very useful (without my gay uncle, no house for my parents, he had spare money. He also looked after his mentally unwell sister for all her life.) It would have been interesting to hear some actual results of scientific studies to support this discussion. Talking philosophically and hypothesising are interesting, too.

[@kimlarso]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@xaverlustig3581]

​​@@carolynbrightfield8911I think those are stereotypes. The majority of homosexuals aren't very artsy.

[@nigeljohnson9820]

@@carolynbrightfield8911 to some extent society provides a testing ground. You appear to have an optimistic view of how homosexuals redirect their sexual energies. Until the advent of aids, it was my understanding that the lack of procreation to hinder their sexual urges resulted in a very active hedonistic lifestyle. I must acknowledge that homosexuals do appear to be dominant in the field of the arts and literature, less so in the sciences and engineering, though that may be due to the more conservative nature of the latter. It is possible that the dominance in the fields of the arts and literature may be evidence of the hidden genetic traits discussed in this video. It does suggest that creativity and brain organisation is different for homosexuals. This should not come as a surprise, as there are distinct differences between the way men and women think. One must assume that autism and Asperger's syndrome have a similar genetic origin. In the latter case, it is not difficult to see why this trait propagates through the generations as a result of its link to creative and original thinking, even though one might expect it to die out as a result of its tendency to inhibit the formation of sexual relationships to the point of the condition being associated with an asexual lifestyle.

[@nigeljohnson9820]

It is true that homosexuals do seem to be disproportionately represented in the field of art and literature, however before the advent of aids, I think it unreasonable to assume that they diverted all their sexual energy into creative and altruistic pursuits. I think it is fair to say that unhindered by the risks of propagation, they indulged in a very active hedonistic lifestyle. Homosexual romance in the fields of art and literature may be a clue to an associated difference in brain structure and thinking process. This should not be a surprise as there are clear differences in the way hetrosexual men and women think. The idea could be extended to genes linked to autism and Asperger's syndrome. In the latter case it is not difficult to identify the genetic traits that lead to the propagation of this condition between generations, those of creative and innovative thinking, despite the impediment this condition represents in forming sexual relationships. One might associate the condition with an asexual lifestyle.

[@lucindajolly4195]

This is surprisingly thin

[@susandrakenviller3683]

Certainly hasn’t aged well. What a stinker.

[@ribos2762]

in my country, many gay celebreties would marry partners of the opposite sex and they actually have kids, then later in their lives they would divorce their partners and live as gays.

[@kandondooley89]

That happens alot in the US. Out of curiosity, which country are you from?

[@wendyfrith3407]

Could it be that, generally speaking, the male sex drive is so strong that, as Lenny Bruce once said: 'Men are basically carnal; men will f0cl< mud.’ But as they get older, the drive decreases until, not only can mud no longer do the job, in the case of homosexual men neither can women, and it becomes blatantly clear to themselves what the single thing is that does ?

[@brettallen7632]

horseshlt

[@MAY-bm3lh]

Sad.. :(

[@boxofcans461]

​@@brettallen7632in older times, having children is the only way to survive in the long term - whether it's survival of the individual or tribe. So even if you were gay, it's smart to have children.

[@fernandofreitas2615]

Did he explain why there are identical twins where one says they are straight and the other says they are gay?

[@charlesmendeley9823]

As far as I know, the probability of both being gay is higher than chance, so your argument is not valid. There might still be epigenetic factors.

[@dmallen449]

IMO, the problem here is that they are discussing individual natural selection when the answer may lie in the power of group selection effects. One possibility, for instance, is that having gay members of the species leads to less competition among men for the best available females. That could mean fewer men killing each other as they compete, as is seen in many mammals, so groups that have this are more likely to survive and pass on their genes.

[@butterflygirl3359]

Every kid should be lucky enough to have a gay uncle and every mom should be lucky enough to have a gay son. ❤

[@metashadow3924]

Looking forward to seeing you, Richard, in Portland!

[@gravygood]

OMG the background noise is BRUTAL. Could you not find a quiet place to do this?

[@leedoss6905]

Yeah on top of a summer cold too.😢

[@bobfillmore384]

Another great discussion with Richard Dawkins and guest. I love the way they slice and dice all the factors to get closer to the truth, especially on this topic.

[@RobertaSirgutz]

Dr. Dawkins, you look very young and handsome. Enjoy your time in one place. You've earned your day in the sun.

[@Comoncrow66]

I do not think exposure to a gay person has any effect on the sexual preference of the child. From my personal observations they either are or are not gay. In fact the notion is not logical, the entire subject is surrounded by taboo , prejudice and overcompensation . I've noted children raised by gay parents go on to be very straight , and traditionally raised children by being gay honestly and totally surprised their parents.

[@embreis2257]

that would be true only when environmental factors would influence sexual orientation. it doesn't. it is all decided the moment the child is born. may not be all due to genes. if so, the rest is contributed by the special mix of hormones/chemicals in the mother's womb during early stages of gestation.

[@zombieGI]

@@embreis2257 How is it decided when you are born? On what do you base that? Environmental factors do matter, that's why we all marry our mothers. Children are asexual, to say they are born with a sexual orientation is plain wrong. How could we even observe this?

[@embreis2257]

@@zombieGI we know environmental factors don't matter in this regard (look up twin studies of children who have been separated since birth). they matter only in how one feels comfortable enough to live according to their building plans. if society is hostile to it then many won't show it. ofc children are asexual - for a while. when puberty hits they find out how the dice was rolled back between conception and birth. they cannot control it as it is already build in.

[@louisdewit4429]

@@zombieGI - Your comment here is brainless. I and all homo people were surrounded by only Hetero examples who did everything to make us feel horrible about being homo which we all knew from early till teenage stage. I knew i was decisively different from neighboring boys my age at age 3 1/2 and i vividly remember the moment. Had nothing to do with sex but all with sex orientation. Straight men wanting to marry their mother. PLEASE ?! 🙏 Nonsense. Ciao.

[@morwickchesterham3875]

This stuff is old... maybe he can do an update about the evolution of transgenders.

[@LarsGsanger]

Yeah, three hours on freemasonry🍏

[@specialsnowflake9097]

Devolution*

[@towerofwankers]

I dunno, me and my male mates had a lot of pretty intense relations growing up, but if you questioned them they'd say they were straight (most have long term relationships or are married with families), and even the stuff they've done they'd probably describe as "not gay" to this day, even though it was clearly very gay. Whatever the truth of the matter though, it shouldn't be an issue and it's only die-hard religious people and other schizotypal folk who actually seem to be bothered by it.

[@DarkSkay]

Sexual attraction has so many facets, but one hypothesis for a factor involving evolutionary (here also cultural) advantage: groups with a fit proportion and expression of homosexuality have less infighting, because same-sex acts (as well as the drama, ritual, criticism or acceptance, humour, play... around it) can help clarify hierarchy, succession rights, roles, stigma or privilege, social status etc. Historians often put strong emphasis on internal tensions when describing a group losing power and influence - so all factors helping to reduce those are crucial for the success of the associated gene pool.

[@geobla6600]

Your kidding right? History shows otherwise!

[@veraluxmundi2032]

@@geobla6600 No, same sex bonding through sex is commonplace in troops of primates, which humans basically are. It strengthens social ties and benefits the community.

[@DarkSkay]

@@geobla6600 No, but I appreciate discussing differences in opinion. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding on how I used the verb "clarify" in the paragraph above.

[@magaqetyuwa]

Don't you just love science for its focus on separating facts from BS...